Not to mention that the patch cuts create more edge effects.   It makes the 
habitat more suitable for deer and increase the herd carrying capacity of the 
land thereby further impeding oak regeneration.

PJ

---- DON BERTOLETTE <[email protected]> wrote: 

=============

Mike-
How do you think the oak plantings would do if the "1-3 acre clearcuts" were 
fenced in?  
If the answer was poorly, then I'd suspect that it was the "hideous" clearcuts.
If the answer was well, then I'd suggest that deer were the problem, not the 
clearcut.
One to three acre clearings happen naturally all the time in New England.  If 
the forest management attempts to mimic them also mimic the relatively low 
level of natural soil disturbance from say wind events, then it becomes a 
matter of aesthetics. But the aesthetic difference between the disturbances 
caused by say a small (1-3 acre) localized downburst and a carefully done 1-3 
acre patch cut is probably not worth quibbling over.
Having said that, I'm not sure how either scenario provides an immediate water 
quality improvement. 

Almost everything is scalar...3-5 years in the life time of a forest is a blink 
of an eye, once regeneration gets underway, the forest adjusts, the eye should 
too...
-Don
PS:Notice how the use of 'clearcut' and 'hideous' stand out in our otherwise 
'not value-laden' conversation...

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:11:28 -0500








RE: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves




Don,

I worked for a few weeks in the Prescott Peninsula at the Quabbin Watershed 
about 8 years ago doing Timber Stand Improvement work. I’d cut small black 
birch poles to release white pine saplings. Otherwise you’d have a sea of black 
birch there because of the history of deer over browsing which also extirpated 
the oak. I’ve never seen so much black birch with a complete absence of oak. So 
the effect of the over browsing is essentially permanent. I don’t see oak ever 
getting established there again – they tried some planting but it all failed. 

The management at the 55,000 acre Quabbin watershed has changed significantly 
over the last 4 years or so. Whereas prior they did mostly area wide thinnings, 
they are now doing more “patch cuts” (1-3 acre clearcuts). Not only does it 
look hideous, but it is not necessary to protect water quality from any future 
catastrophic hurricane (by supposedly creating a more resilient multi-aged 
forest). 

Mike

-----Original Message-----

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
Of DON BERTOLETTE

Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 4:45 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves

Mike-

I recall assisting in research at UMASS in the 90's that investigated deer 
browse effect in the Quabbin Reservoir watershed...similarly, fenced enclosures 
of oak regeneration were compared with those outside (subject to deer browse) 
and the difference was certainly statistically significant...a positive spin on 
this was that oaks so browsed and then protected, developed more established 
root systems and grew well and fast.

A quick aside, in my wanderings in the woods at Grand Canyon National Park, I 
ran across fenced enclosures from the 30's and 40's designed to study the 
impact of elk and deer on the understory.  Had to protect them from planned 
control burns, as they were old enough to fall under the Antiquities Act...;>)

-Don

From: [email protected]

To: [email protected]

Subject: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves

Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 16:28:56 -0500

Russ,

Excellent article! So in order to get tree seedling regeneration you need to 
introduce the wolf or introduce hunting. This is a common problem all across 
the country especially in the east with the abundance of white tailed deer. I 
saw an experiment in Wells (Maine) National Estuarine Sanctuary where they 
fenced off areas to keep deer away and the result was half decent hardwood 
seedling regeneration whereas the unfenced areas were choked with invasive and 
non-native Japanese barberry. Another reason to shoot the deer! 

There was talk about introducing the wolf to Maine which didn’t please the 
locals. I remember when they tried to re-introduce caribou to Baxter State Park 
but unfortunately that noble experiment failed. 

Wolves may have already introduced themselves to Maine from Canada. I have only 
had a few landowners (from Bernardston and Warwick) in MA say they saw a wolf. 
But I’ve had at least15 landowners over the years tell me they’ve seen a 
mountain lion. Is it the supposedly extinct eastern cougar, migrants from the 
west, or as most state wildlife officials like to say “escaped pets”? 

Mike

-----Original Message-----

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
Of [email protected]

Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:52 AM

To: [email protected]

Subject: [ENTS] old growth and wolves

ENTS:

 

Seattle Times recently ran an interesting article on reintroducing wolves in 
Olympic NP to stem the damage to the old growth woods by elk.

 

Russ

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008667916_wolves25.html

 

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