PJ- Hmmm, isn't the problem the excessive deer population? -Don > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:50:28 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves > CC: [email protected] > > > Not to mention that the patch cuts create more edge effects. It makes the > habitat more suitable for deer and increase the herd carrying capacity of the > land thereby further impeding oak regeneration. > > PJ > > ---- DON BERTOLETTE <[email protected]> wrote: > > ============= > > Mike- > How do you think the oak plantings would do if the "1-3 acre clearcuts" were > fenced in? > If the answer was poorly, then I'd suspect that it was the "hideous" > clearcuts. > If the answer was well, then I'd suggest that deer were the problem, not the > clearcut. > One to three acre clearings happen naturally all the time in New England. If > the forest management attempts to mimic them also mimic the relatively low > level of natural soil disturbance from say wind events, then it becomes a > matter of aesthetics. But the aesthetic difference between the disturbances > caused by say a small (1-3 acre) localized downburst and a carefully done 1-3 > acre patch cut is probably not worth quibbling over. > Having said that, I'm not sure how either scenario provides an immediate > water quality improvement. > > Almost everything is scalar...3-5 years in the life time of a forest is a > blink of an eye, once regeneration gets underway, the forest adjusts, the eye > should too... > -Don > PS:Notice how the use of 'clearcut' and 'hideous' stand out in our otherwise > 'not value-laden' conversation... > > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:11:28 -0500 > > > > > > > > > RE: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves > > > > > Don, > > I worked for a few weeks in the Prescott Peninsula at the Quabbin Watershed > about 8 years ago doing Timber Stand Improvement work. I’d cut small black > birch poles to release white pine saplings. Otherwise you’d have a sea of > black birch there because of the history of deer over browsing which also > extirpated the oak. I’ve never seen so much black birch with a complete > absence of oak. So the effect of the over browsing is essentially permanent. > I don’t see oak ever getting established there again – they tried some > planting but it all failed. > > The management at the 55,000 acre Quabbin watershed has changed significantly > over the last 4 years or so. Whereas prior they did mostly area wide > thinnings, they are now doing more “patch cuts” (1-3 acre clearcuts). Not > only does it look hideous, but it is not necessary to protect water quality > from any future catastrophic hurricane (by supposedly creating a more > resilient multi-aged forest). > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of DON BERTOLETTE > > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 4:45 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves > > Mike- > > I recall assisting in research at UMASS in the 90's that investigated deer > browse effect in the Quabbin Reservoir watershed...similarly, fenced > enclosures of oak regeneration were compared with those outside (subject to > deer browse) and the difference was certainly statistically significant...a > positive spin on this was that oaks so browsed and then protected, developed > more established root systems and grew well and fast. > > A quick aside, in my wanderings in the woods at Grand Canyon National Park, I > ran across fenced enclosures from the 30's and 40's designed to study the > impact of elk and deer on the understory. Had to protect them from planned > control burns, as they were old enough to fall under the Antiquities Act...;>) > > -Don > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: old growth and wolves > > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 16:28:56 -0500 > > Russ, > > Excellent article! So in order to get tree seedling regeneration you need to > introduce the wolf or introduce hunting. This is a common problem all across > the country especially in the east with the abundance of white tailed deer. I > saw an experiment in Wells (Maine) National Estuarine Sanctuary where they > fenced off areas to keep deer away and the result was half decent hardwood > seedling regeneration whereas the unfenced areas were choked with invasive > and non-native Japanese barberry. Another reason to shoot the deer! > > There was talk about introducing the wolf to Maine which didn’t please the > locals. I remember when they tried to re-introduce caribou to Baxter State > Park but unfortunately that noble experiment failed. > > Wolves may have already introduced themselves to Maine from Canada. I have > only had a few landowners (from Bernardston and Warwick) in MA say they saw a > wolf. But I’ve had at least15 landowners over the years tell me they’ve seen > a mountain lion. Is it the supposedly extinct eastern cougar, migrants from > the west, or as most state wildlife officials like to say “escaped pets”? > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:52 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [ENTS] old growth and wolves > > ENTS: > > > > Seattle Times recently ran an interesting article on reintroducing wolves in > Olympic NP to stem the damage to the old growth woods by elk. > > > > Russ > > > > http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008667916_wolves25.html > > > > Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > > > > > > > > > > Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. Check it out. > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 > > > > >
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