If the plan is to replace the internal console with a bundle-supplied console (e.g. GoGo; and I think this is a fine plan), then I think the -console argument either needs to be deprecated (and now would be a great time to put people on notice) or we need to plan for the -console argument to eventually start the bundle-supplied console once the internal console is gone. --
BJ Hargrave Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance hargr...@us.ibm.com office: +1 386 848 1781 mobile: +1 386 848 3788 From: Jeff McAffer <j...@eclipsesource.com> To: Equinox development mailing list <equinox-dev@eclipse.org> Date: 2010/12/02 20:00 Subject: Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with GoGo for Indigo Sent by: equinox-dev-boun...@eclipse.org IMHO the bar for Indigo is pretty low. We need to make sure that Gogo can run properly on Equinox. All servicability extension work can be focused on using Gogo. Having a way to disable the current console would be interesting but not essential. Don't want the console? don't put -console on the command line. I'm reluctant to put any logic in the framework or launcher to choose between consoles or search for console implementations or... People shipping configurations where they want to use Gogo should setup their config to have Gogo installed and started. We may choose in the future to supply such a setup from Equinox and there can even be a bundle that looks for a -gogo command line arg but that should not be in the framework impl. So, what do we actually have to do here? Jeff On 2010-12-02, at 1:44 PM, Thomas Watson wrote: This is the kind of thing I want to address for 3.7 to enable the use of bundles on top of the framework to provide the console. Ideally this would involve a way to configure the framework so that the -console option just did what you need to get your bundles started as well as completely disabling the console support built into the framework. I think that is part of the solution proposed in https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=169603 Tom <graycol.gif>"Kirchev, Lazar" ---12/02/2010 10:52:30 AM---For the extraction of the console in a separate bundle there is a bug opened: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=169 <ecblank.gif> From: <ecblank.gif> "Kirchev, Lazar" <l.kirc...@sap.com> <ecblank.gif> To: <ecblank.gif> Equinox development mailing list <equinox-dev@eclipse.org> <ecblank.gif> Date: <ecblank.gif> 12/02/2010 10:52 AM <ecblank.gif> Subject: <ecblank.gif> Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with GoGo for Indigo For the extraction of the console in a separate bundle there is a bug opened: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=169603 and a patch is provided there. One of the reasons for considering the moving of the console out of the framework is that adding new features to the console while it is in the framework will increase the size of the framework. The current built-in console lacks telnet supportability features for example. Now if the console stays in the framework, it will not include such features. But such supportability features also improve usability. Probably we should provide them as an optional bundle - anyone who needs them to install this bundle? What I have prepared for the incubator is meant to run as a Gogo command, but it easily may be changed to support both cases – as a Gogo command, and the ConsoleSession interface available since 3.6. Also, currently the only way to run Gogo on top of Equinox is to start Equinox without the –console option, and make Gogo bundles initially started. So it is not possible to pass –console and start either one, or the other. Probably add an option to specify the console jar/jars, if a console different from the built-in should be started? Lazar From: equinox-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [ mailto:equinox-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Watson Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 5:50 PM To: Equinox development mailing list Subject: Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with GoGo for Indigo We also must consider the amount of work it would take to extract the console out and test it properly. I am reluctant to do any of that work when we want to eventually replace the console implementation with the gogo shell and a bundle that bridges the old equinox command implementations to the new shell. Tom <graycol.gif>Jeff McAffer ---12/02/2010 09:37:45 AM---The disadvantage is usability. Right now you get equinox and run with -console and its all good. If we break it out you'll ha <34743407.jpg> From: <34519726.jpg> Jeff McAffer <j...@eclipsesource.com> <34743407.jpg> To: <34519726.jpg> Equinox development mailing list <equinox-dev@eclipse.org> <34743407.jpg> Date: <34519726.jpg> 12/02/2010 09:37 AM <34743407.jpg> Subject: <34519726.jpg> Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with GoGo for Indigo The disadvantage is usability. Right now you get equinox and run with -console and its all good. If we break it out you'll have to get two bundles and make sure that the console bundle is started... We have thought about shipping two setups, one with the console and one without. That might work but we need to consider consumer confusion (which one do I get, which one do I have, ...) and the work required to setup/maintain the build. Perhaps the new starter kit direction we've been exploring could offer some help... Anyway, there is a lot of pressure to improve ease of use so we need to keep that in mind through these changes. Jeff On 2010-12-01, at 6:02 PM, Alex Blewitt wrote: On 1 Dec 2010, at 22:06, Thomas Watson wrote: There have been various discussions about replacing our framework console with something a bit more functional and flexible like apache gogo [1]. At this point in the Indigo release we do not plan to remove our own console for the Indigo release. Instead we will do what ever is required to enable the use of gogo on top of Equinox. We would like to use the incubator to allow this effort to mature and then re-evaluate the complete removal of our built-in framework console in a later release. Lazar Kirchev from SAP has been doing various experiments and investigations in this area. My hope is that Lazar will soon be in a position to contribute this work to the equinox incubator so that others can try it out on top of Indigo. Tom [1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=317827 One other advantage would be in slimming down Equinox by providing the console in a separate bundle from the main OSGi runtime. Alex _______________________________________________ equinox-dev mailing list equinox-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/equinox-dev _______________________________________________ equinox-dev mailing list equinox-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/equinox-dev _______________________________________________ equinox-dev mailing list equinox-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/equinox-dev _______________________________________________ equinox-dev mailing list equinox-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/equinox-dev _______________________________________________ equinox-dev mailing list equinox-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/equinox-dev
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