Once we have incubated the gogo shell + equinox console bridge support and we are confident in the solution then I think we move in this direction. i.e. we look at making the -console option "just work" by doing something like you are suggesting, start the bundle-supplied console. Once that is successful we remove the dead console code from the framework. But we are not planning to do that in 3.7.
Tom
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|BJ Hargrave/Austin/i...@ibmus
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|12/02/2010 07:25 PM
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|Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with GoGo for Indigo
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If the plan is to replace the internal console with a bundle-supplied
console (e.g. GoGo; and I think this is a fine plan), then I think the
-console argument either needs to be deprecated (and now would be a great
time to put people on notice) or we need to plan for the -console argument
to eventually start the bundle-supplied console once the internal console
is gone.
--
BJ Hargrave
Senior Technical Staff office: +1 386 848
Member, IBM 1781
OSGi Fellow and CTO of the mobile: +1 386 848
OSGi Alliance 3788
hargr...@us.ibm.com
From: Jeff McAffer <j...@eclipsesource.com>
To: Equinox development mailing list <equinox-dev@eclipse.org>
Date: 2010/12/02 20:00
Subject: Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with GoGo
for Indigo
Sent by: equinox-dev-boun...@eclipse.org
IMHO the bar for Indigo is pretty low. We need to make sure that Gogo can
run properly on Equinox. All servicability extension work can be focused
on using Gogo. Having a way to disable the current console would be
interesting but not essential. Don't want the console? don't put -console
on the command line.
I'm reluctant to put any logic in the framework or launcher to choose
between consoles or search for console implementations or... People
shipping configurations where they want to use Gogo should setup their
config to have Gogo installed and started. We may choose in the future to
supply such a setup from Equinox and there can even be a bundle that looks
for a -gogo command line arg but that should not be in the framework impl.
So, what do we actually have to do here?
Jeff
On 2010-12-02, at 1:44 PM, Thomas Watson wrote:
This is the kind of thing I want to address for 3.7 to enable the use of
bundles on top of the framework to provide the console. Ideally this would
involve a way to configure the framework so that the -console option just
did what you need to get your bundles started as well as completely
disabling the console support built into the framework. I think that is
part of the solution proposed in
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=169603
Tom
<graycol.gif>"Kirchev, Lazar" ---12/02/2010 10:52:30 AM---For the
extraction of the console in a separate bundle there is a bug opened:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=169
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From: "Kirchev, Lazar" <l.kirc...@sap.com>
<ecblank.gif> <ecblank.gif>
To: Equinox development mailing list <equinox-dev@eclipse.org>
<ecblank.gif> <ecblank.gif>
Date: 12/02/2010 10:52 AM
<ecblank.gif> <ecblank.gif>
Subject: Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with GoGo
for Indigo
For the extraction of the console in a separate bundle there is a bug
opened:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=169603
and a patch is provided there.
One of the reasons for considering the moving of the console out of the
framework is that adding new features to the console while it is in the
framework will increase the size of the framework. The current built-in
console lacks telnet supportability features for example. Now if the
console stays in the framework, it will not include such features. But such
supportability features also improve usability. Probably we should provide
them as an optional bundle - anyone who needs them to install this bundle?
What I have prepared for the incubator is meant to run as a Gogo command,
but it easily may be changed to support both cases – as a Gogo command, and
the ConsoleSession interface available since 3.6.
Also, currently the only way to run Gogo on top of Equinox is to start
Equinox without the –console option, and make Gogo bundles initially
started. So it is not possible to pass –console and start either one, or
the other. Probably add an option to specify the console jar/jars, if a
console different from the built-in should be started?
Lazar
From: equinox-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [
mailto:equinox-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Watson
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 5:50 PM
To: Equinox development mailing list
Subject: Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with GoGo for
Indigo
We also must consider the amount of work it would take to extract the
console out and test it properly. I am reluctant to do any of that work
when we want to eventually replace the console implementation with the gogo
shell and a bundle that bridges the old equinox command implementations to
the new shell.
Tom
<graycol.gif>Jeff McAffer ---12/02/2010 09:37:45 AM---The disadvantage is
usability. Right now you get equinox and run with -console and its all
good. If we break it out you'll ha
<34743407.jpg> <34519726.jpg>
From: Jeff McAffer <j...@eclipsesource.com>
<34743407.jpg> <34519726.jpg>
To: Equinox development mailing list <
equinox-dev@eclipse.org>
<34743407.jpg> <34519726.jpg>
Date: 12/02/2010 09:37 AM
<34743407.jpg> <34519726.jpg>
Subject: Re: [equinox-dev] Plans to replace the Console with
GoGo for Indigo
The disadvantage is usability. Right now you get equinox and run with
-console and its all good. If we break it out you'll have to get two
bundles and make sure that the console bundle is started...
We have thought about shipping two setups, one with the console and one
without. That might work but we need to consider consumer confusion (which
one do I get, which one do I have, ...) and the work required to
setup/maintain the build.
Perhaps the new starter kit direction we've been exploring could offer some
help...
Anyway, there is a lot of pressure to improve ease of use so we need to
keep that in mind through these changes.
Jeff
On 2010-12-01, at 6:02 PM, Alex Blewitt wrote:
On 1 Dec 2010, at 22:06, Thomas Watson wrote:
There have been various discussions about replacing our framework console
with something a bit more functional and flexible like apache gogo [1]. At
this point in the Indigo release we do not plan to remove our own console
for the Indigo release. Instead we will do what ever is required to enable
the use of gogo on top of Equinox. We would like to use the incubator to
allow this effort to mature and then re-evaluate the complete removal of
our built-in framework console in a later release. Lazar Kirchev from SAP
has been doing various experiments and investigations in this area. My hope
is that Lazar will soon be in a position to contribute this work to the
equinox incubator so that others can try it out on top of Indigo.
Tom
[1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=317827
One other advantage would be in slimming down Equinox by providing the
console in a separate bundle from the main OSGi runtime.
Alex
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