Since I thought so much more of the guy, I'm surprised at Syd for his negative comments especially since we've had this off list conversation some time ago. I would hate to think that his earlier suggestions really meant shut up and go away with this stuff. Syd, thanks for taking the time from your restoration project to add something beneficial to this discussion, I sincerely hoped for your ideas and looked forward to your guidance with this subject. Oh yes, and I feel that this discussion time is valuable to everyone, that's why I spend the time here. You need to also. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to enlist some help with your cause after showing where opinions lay?
What puzzles me how I've tried to gather info and how some have attempted to turn it into a personal thing. Really there is no need for this to be personal. Matter of fact I think it would be to the club's benefit if it stayed a discussion and not become personal. What is the problem with that? Why can't that be done? Is no one permitted to question EOC actions when wrongs are evident? Could this be a territorial thing? Jesus, I hope not, there's nothing to gain by being territorial about EOC! Let's please leave it at a fact finding and opinion gathering discussion so that it doesn't become ugly and remember that whatever the outcome, it should only be good for everyone involved. At the very least, EOC supporters should be realizing the amount of great info being passed and that the club exists because of the members, the members don't exist because of the club. So far, it appears that the club is as closed minded as I state. PLEASE prove me wrong, for your own benefit. I don't mind an ass kicking. This is not personal, I'm not attacking anyone and I'd appreciate it if not I'm attacked, it just ain't right! What it's doing is preventing some people from posting their opinions. That's not a good thing. My statement about not working with some people was not intended to be an attack or a provocation. If you interpreted it that way, step back and ask yourself why. I don't need to know, you do. Okay some background. In my opinion only, the type club did a major disservice to the owners when a few things went down. First, the Model D thing slipped thru. I know, I know, it couldn't be helped. Even though that the poorest of excuses it happened! Unfortunately what's done is done and it'll take some fresh talent to fix. On the latest SB, a personal opinion was expressed and that personal opinion was taken by the ruling party as the opinion of the type club. (I guess they didn't realize it was only a social club.) Not a good thing. How I found out about it was that a colleague within FAA immediately emailed me about it, actually chastising me about how absolutely ridiculous the statement was. Wanted to know if I was part of that "*&^%+$ - &#" organization. Can you imagine that? If not please try, it was most embarrassing! These two items got my goat good enough to stir up the memories of crap gone by and got me wall kicking. Shut it down last time by suggestion, maybe I was over reacting. When such a disservice is done to so many people that depend on guidance, my axe comes out, it's in my history. But if anyone is under the impression that I think I can change the world via axe grinding they're mistaken. True, that I was a 1 term director. Only took me 1 term to see what goes on and to get out. No, I don't want to become King of the Ercoupers so don't worry, but I do want my fellow serfs to have it as good as it can be. And again, in my opinion, there's so much more that can be offered and done. That leads to the big question "Why won't Al just bend over and work with the current club if he thinks he knows it all?". Well, if I thought for ten seconds that my progressive thinking, can-do attitude, fresh ideas (did I mention can-do attitude) and thirst for what's right and just would actually benefit the members and forge a future, I would. Should I do it regardless of personal feelings? Honestly, the discussion just about convinced me to (and it's there in a message) after the good dialogue was started. Now? Obvious I'd be going into a den where there were some pissed off lions with their own claws to sharpen. But if I did, and I'm not saying I won't, the people whose best interests I'd have, should know I'd still be the same Al DeMarzo and not afraid of being scratched or mauled! (Is that good or bad? No official polls, please!) It's interesting how some become so defensive when in a discussion there is some criticism hurled about the EOC. It's interesting to see how some folks are satisfied with the status quo and can't foresee any other benefits than what is now being provided. Interesting that some fail to see any merit in my points so they'll refuse to work with me, regardless of talents or lack of them. But what's extremely encouraging is to see that most realize that the only thing constant is change and it doesn't cost anything to toss ideas out there. Where those ideas end up is still in the future. But in any event, it's all good if you make it good for you. So guys, we can all very easily turn up the heat, so let's not make this into a dogfight, that wasn't the intent. There's no need for it, I expect more for you and it would benefit everyone less than if it were not discussed at all. Al DeMarzo Visit the Ercoupe Swap Page - Free and Easy http://www.ercoupeowners.com/swap/swapbook.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Syd Cohen Cc: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [ercoupe-flyin] I Support EOC Folks, I am absolutely amazed that a thread that started with "I said it's nuts for a coupe owner to have to sell his D-model and buy a C-model to get in the light sport. He agreed and said that once it got though that he would make my suggestion. So there still may be some hope. But I think that it would take a very big push from a big group of people to get it done." to evolve into bashing the EOC for not doing more to get the FAA to allow D's to be brought back to C's, and then bashing the EOC in general. I've kept silent so far on this, but maybe I need to speak up. I think we know that Al has an ax to grind in almost all of his comments, especially the ones that have to do with the EOC. Frankly, I'm sick of these comments. I've said for years, there are two kinds of people, talkers and doers. So Al was a Director for a few years and put on a fly-in. Big deal. I've been a Wing Leader for many years, Regional Director for many years, put on the 1993 Nationals, led the flight of Ercoupes into Oshkosh for 15 years, coordinated the banquet, maintenance forum and Type Club Table at Oshkosh for many years, and am now coordinating the banquet, maintenance forum and Type Club Table at Sun N Fun, plus I'm putting on the Nationals at Wausau this summer. If all this talk and energy for the past few days had been spent on something constructive, like working with EAA to get the FAA to modify the Sport rules, we probably would be at least half way there already. Actually, though, we have accomplished nothing. I'm also amazed that some of you have the time to sit at your computers all day long and compose emails. Excuse me, I have a Waco CG-4A to restore, and I only get about 30 minutes a day to look at emails. I'm off to my hangar. I also support the EOC and I keep working to make it better. Syd Andy Anderson wrote: I agree with Lee. If you are going to "talk the talk", you should be willing to "walk the walk". There are a few - very few- people on this list that seem to only be interested in EOC bashing. They say they want to "improve" the club, but are unwilling to work with its leadership. AJ DeMarzo has publicly stated that he "will not work with either Skip or Carolyn for love or money" and that is his prerogative, By the same token, I will publicly state that I will not work with AJ DeMarzo in his quest to - in my opinion - harm EOC. I know that he says that is not his intent but if it were not true, I believe, he should be willing to work within the club. He is making a statement which proves to me that he does not have the best interests of EOC as a motive. Supporters of EOC will be willing to provide properly directed suggestions for improvement. Bashing EOC on this list is not the way to cause improvements. Sending your ideas or suggestions to your region director or directly to Skip or Carolyn is proper. . I support EOC and its leadership. I would like to see this topic flooded with similar one line comments from EOC members who agree. Only then will the few know how the majority feel. By remaining silent you are helping fuel the flames. Andy Anderson Dues paid EOC Member & Arkansas Wing Leader ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AJ DeMarzo Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ercoupe-flyin] EOC Hi Lee; Any "negative" comments from this author are to be taken as constructive criticism not personal attacks, of which I'm very capable of launching. I'd like to see things improve. And NO, at this time I will not work with either Skip and Carolyn for love or money, nor will I discourage anyone from performing this service. It's like owning a polished airplane. Everyone needs to do it - - - - once! I know my statements make no sense but you have to look at them hard! (Go over the numbers a bit more.) Al DeMarzo Visit the Ercoupe Swap Page - Free and Easy http://www.ercoupeowners.com/swap/swapbook.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 9:15 PM Subject: [ercoupe-flyin] EOC As I said before, if they have an input which in their opinion will be of interest, it is reasonable that it will be posted. Perhaps they have posted an input and received a caustic critical unwarranted response. That has occurred in the past and some are turned off by such responses and don't post again. That is only a supposition of course. There seems to be quite a bit of negative comments relative to the EOC operation and some positive suggestions to improve it. Will those criticizing the current operation step up and volunteer their time to coordinate the positive suggestions through Skip and Carolyn and then work with them to implement them? Wayne, I offer a constructive suggestion, when you post someone's comment, post all of it and not just part. Lee
