EV Digest 2525
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: gimme a brake ... NOW Porterfield info
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Evercell cycling report for cycle 149
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Trojan battery caps
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Rabbit based EV brakes WAS-Re: gimme a brake ...
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Trojan battery caps
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Temperature & Charging question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: bat watering sys was/ Charging questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Trojan battery caps
by Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Trojan battery caps
by Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Bringing my pack back in balance
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 110V AVCON Adapter
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase. Make the bumper sticker. �
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Russian cars, Sentra's an' Stuff NOW email posting funk
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Some new technology for the military....
by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Some new technology for the military....
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: (OT) EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: (OT) EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EVLN(ZAP's 3x performance batt forward-looking
statements)-long
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Range
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVLN(ZAP's 3x performance batt forward-looking statements)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion - getting OT
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Charging questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Bob Rice wrote:
> > Please tell me more on Rabbit brakes. I'm running Jetta
Rear
> drums on my
> > Rabbit, tad bigger thasn the stock ones, am looking at discs
> from a wrecked
> > Cabrolet, my local VW garu has ,and is parting out. They ARE
> bigger, and
> > need a 14 inch wheel to accomodate the larger size. Sooo, new
> wheels, an
> > tires all around,or at least in front. Do I really want to
run
> 13's in back
> > an' 14's in front. Different size tires, an' all that.
Havent
> dove into
> > THAT yet. Where do you get Carbon Kevlar Pads an' shoes? Who
is
> Porterfield.
> > A car shop or manufacturer of replacment brake parts?
>
Chuck Hursch wrote:
> I'll have to dig up the Porterfield catalog in the dusty
catalog
> shelf tomorrow. It's not something I want to do right now
before
> hitting the hay. They are a manufacturer of replacement and
> racing brake pads. The carbon-kevlar street linings and shoes
> are from Porterfield, about $80 as I recall for two pairs of
> shoes (driver/passenger) on the rear of the Rabbit.
I dug out the Porterfield catalog I had, and alas and alack it
was a 1998 version. None of the phone numbers worked. So I went
to the internet, and they're at
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com. I think the phone numbers
didn't work because the 800 number is not allowed within CA, and
Porterfield's area code changed from 714 to 909 down in SoCal. I
note that the Rabbit is not listed on their site, but lots of
Jetta stuff is. Looks like vehicles before 1984 are not listed
anymore, at least in the VW watercooled stuff. But I doubt it's
a problem, since they can probably make them up for your Rabbit
if they don't have them in stock. And hey, Bruce!, if you're
reading this post, they do have stuff for S-10s.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What rate of discharge are you using on the cycle? I have heard that the
Nickel Zinc batteries don't like heavy discharge and have a high internal
resistance.
At 01:46 AM 1/10/2003, you wrote:
The evercel being cycled to death has reached cycle 149.
The summary graphic is located at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/evercel%20cycle%20149%20summary.gif
The capacity is now just under 73 ahr.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had to remove my linked together speed caps due to leaking and replace
with individual standard twist on caps as well as Mitch.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Trojan battery caps
> I take it that the single twist caps are interchangeable between US
battery
> and Trojan, is there any opinion on which is better? I know that the new
> speed caps from US battery have some kind of crystal in it to keep the
acid
> in the battery and it works great, the US battery's with those speed caps
> are as dry as dust.
>
> From: "Mark Hanson"
>
> > I had to change to the standard twist off caps. Mitch Oates just did
too.
>
> > Chuck Hursch
> > I don't know if they are the same as yours (mine twist in like
> > most battery caps), but the big white caps on my Trojan T125s
> > turned up several leakers. I was fortunate enough to save the
> > good caps (smaller caps with 4 fins sticking out of them) from my
> > old US2300s (Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward, CA threw
> > in a bag of those when I got my first pack, and I eventually
> > swapped them in place of those funky 3-in-1 cap assemblies), and
> > those do much better than the Trojan caps. There is also the
> > matter of gasket seal to the rim of the cell. Sunday I was
> > gassing the spare T125s on the deck with an equalizing charge,
> > and noticed some acid leaking out around some of the Trojan caps.
> > Thought, oops, overfilled, but no the level had only come up
> > maybe a quarter inch or so. Just the good fizzing overpowered
> > the caps.
> >
>
>
> www.lasvegasev.com
> Richard Furniss
> Las Vegas, NV
> 1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> 1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> 3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> Board Member, www.lveva.org
> Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A note about VW rabbits and front and rear brake parts and suspensions.
Early rabbits had smaller (15mm, IIRC) ball joints than later (17mm, I
think). A heavier car like an EV might want the later steering knuckle
and balljoint so they don't break. If they upgraded to the 17mm on the
stock rabbit, then an EV probably should have that also. Around 1980
they went to the Kelsey Hayes MkII front caliper, the one Chuck has.
This caliper lets you bolt in the inexpensive upgrade of vented rotors
in the front, probably a good idea for a EV. I am pretty sure that the
easiest way would be to change the knuckle, ball joint caliper frame,
caliper, hub and wheel bearings as more or less one piece on each side.
The knuckles and calipers are probably next to free at a junkyard and
the bearings, hubs, brake pads and ball joints are about $20 each if you
know where to look. Also if you want a high performance pad that works
on the street, try Hawk HPS compound. I know it has been available for
CRXs and VWs and it stops VERY well, hot and like a semi-metal when
cold, and it's about $35. Don't get the black or blue compund, they ar
race only, stop a bit better when very hot, but have poor cold performance.
There is another level of upgrade, involving larger diameter rotors, but
it is involved and probably not what an EV needs.
I ramble, but I figure most rabbit EVs out there have old balljoints in
them, and some are probably in need of an upgrade. There is a similar
upgrade for golf IIs, but I haven't heard of any on the list. If asked I
can post about that.
HTH
Seth
Chuck Hursch wrote:
>
> On the Rabbit, when we did the conversion back in '94, we
> refurbished the brakes with organic linings. On my steep (~20%
> grade) hill coming down from the apt, I wanted to know if I could
> stop myself in case my front hydraulic brakes failed. So headed
> down the hill and pulled up on the emergency brake handle between
> the seats. No stop. No fastah, but no stop. The rear brake
> linings were the first to go, inside of 10K miles. Hmm, not
> good, I thought EVs were supposed to have lower maintenance...
> So, Preston, the fellow EV'er who helped me convert my vehicle,
> had had good experience with carbon-kevlar linings from
> Porterfield on his VW Vanagon. I ordered up a set of shoes with
> carbon-kevlar street linings for the rear drums and we installed
> them. They have basically exceeded my expectations, and they're
> still going strong some 10K+ miles and several years later. Back
> to the hill test, and I was impressed! Yank, and come to a
> sliding stop, locking up the wheels. Can be done repeatedly and
> rather reliably, although it's tough on rear tires :-|. So I
> now felt safer against a runaway on my hill. Next up, my front
> organics ran out, except this time my inspection method failed
> me, since I was only seeing the outside shoes through the hole on
> the disc brakes up front. My mechanic had the car up on the
> hoist for the frequent CV boot replacement, and made a emphatic
> note to me that my linings (the insides) were nearly down to the
> rivets. Not good! So I had to punt and take him up on his offer
> (rather than what I was holding out for which was Porterfield
> carbon-kevlars on the front too), since he wasn't up for letting
> my vehicle out of the shop. He produced a nice set of vented and
> grooved rotors (which was another upgrade angle I was working on)
> and a set of semi-metallic "rotor eater" linings. Installed, and
> I could feel the well-known warm-up time (which wasn't long
> considering the descent from my apt). Those linings have been in
> there several years by now, and he says they're doing fine. And
> I also note that no sweat forms on my brow like it used to when I
> had a big hill descent in front of my EV. I pretty much take it
> like all the gas cars do. And when my car was down in the South
> Bay last year for an "extended period", we had the vehicle out on
> the freeway (Hi101) doing 70mph for some testing. Unfortunately,
> came up real fast on a traffic jam and all the brake lights lit
> up. It was work, but I got 'er hauled down with room to spare.
> It would help a bit if I had the vacuum assist going, but that's
> another story...
>
> Bottom line is from experience I strongly recommend getting away
> from the stock crap organic linings. Our EVs put a lot of heat
> on their linings, especially if you are in hilly country. Go
> with carbon-kevlar (my first choice) or semi-metallics (the
> braking is not so good till they warm up). Porterfield likely
> does not have shoes for your S-10, but there are probably shops
> that do. Police vehicles at least used to run semi-metallics or
> some such. Maybe your Kragen metallics would be a good bet.
>
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can second that. I was leery of the speedcaps because of comments from
the list, but my battery guy said to try them, and they would give me the
other kind if they leaked. So far, they are dry as can be, and it is easier
to keep them clean. They seal VERY tightly, with lots of compression in the
gaskets. The caps on my old trojans leaked like they weren't even there,
and hardly had any compression in the gaskets.
The only bad point I've noticed about the speedcaps is that they take up a
lot of space, and can create interference problems with the interconnects.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Furniss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Trojan battery caps
I take it that the single twist caps are interchangeable between US battery
and Trojan, is there any opinion on which is better? I know that the new
speed caps from US battery have some kind of crystal in it to keep the acid
in the battery and it works great, the US battery's with those speed caps
are as dry as dust.
From: "Mark Hanson"
> I had to change to the standard twist off caps. Mitch Oates just did too.
> Chuck Hursch
> I don't know if they are the same as yours (mine twist in like
> most battery caps), but the big white caps on my Trojan T125s
> turned up several leakers. I was fortunate enough to save the
> good caps (smaller caps with 4 fins sticking out of them) from my
> old US2300s (Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward, CA threw
> in a bag of those when I got my first pack, and I eventually
> swapped them in place of those funky 3-in-1 cap assemblies), and
> those do much better than the Trojan caps. There is also the
> matter of gasket seal to the rim of the cell. Sunday I was
> gassing the spare T125s on the deck with an equalizing charge,
> and noticed some acid leaking out around some of the Trojan caps.
> Thought, oops, overfilled, but no the level had only come up
> maybe a quarter inch or so. Just the good fizzing overpowered
> the caps.
>
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
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SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY
READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cool; found the documentation on my K&W. Turns out
that a 107K resistor yields 167V equ. charge.
A 118 K resistor yields 180V.
Roughly 110K should put me in the ballpark of where I
need to be.
I checked the voltage on 1/2 the pack, and each batt.
is reading close to 10V (gotta' get a digital meter!)
Will get the rest tomorrow. I really doubt it's a
shorted cell.
What I didn't stop to consider is that since the
E-meter is set to indicate full charge when the
current tapers below 3A, it may be still ramping up
the voltage when I've taken it off charge, and I've
just been thinking they're done since my green light's
flashing, even though they really haven't quite
finished up.
We'll give those two changes a try: (extra time, and
a new programming resistor).
At 64 cells x 2.67 VPC, 170.88.
What do you think?
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> First off, you have two or more things going wrong
> at the same time.
>
> 1) In the winter, the voltage is supposed to go up
> as the temperature goes
> down. The normally quoted value is -2 millivolts per
> cell per degree C. Your
> charger is not temperature compensated and it should
> be. The voltage setting
> resistor needs to be changed to get the manual
> voltage control to have
> enough range to get the battery voltage up higher
> than 167 Volts. If the
> programming resistor is simply a resistor, you can
> interpolate the value
> from measuring the 144 volt resistor and the 124
> volt resistor. The new
> value should be calculated using a weighted average:
>
> (124 volt resistor value) *16/20 + (144 volt
> resistor value) *4/20
>
> The pack voltage should jump up higher than when you
> put the pack on charge
> last summer. You may have a shorted cell or other
> problem causing the pack
> voltage to be lower than the summer normal pack
> voltage.
>
> 2) If you had a terminal problem, the voltage at the
> charger would be higher
> than at the pack terminals. If you are measuring the
> 157 volts at the
> charger, then the charger has a problem. If you are
> measuring 157 at the
> battery and 167 at the charger, you have a voltage
> loss problem. If you have
> a 10 amp charger and you see a 10 volt drop
> somewhere in the system, you are
> dumping 100 watts into that voltage drop resulting
> in something potentially
> getting very hot. If it has a chance, it could melt
> or burn something.
>
> I would advise you to check around the charge
> circuit for voltage drops.
> Make sure you have about 2.3 to 2.5 volts per cell
> near the end of charge on
> all your batteries and make sure all the connections
> from the charger to the
> batteries have less than one volt of drop. If you
> find something out of the
> ordinary (excessively low or high) battery voltage
> or a connection with
> excessive voltage drop, investigate further.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:19 PM
> Subject: Temperature & Charging question
>
>
> > When I first upgraded my pack voltage, I got a
> > programming resistor kit that allowed for 124V
> pack,
> > or 144V pack, but not a 128V pack (my size). I
> was
> > advised to go with the 124V pack resistor, that I
> > could adjust it high enough to get the proper
> > equalizing charge.
> > During the summer, my equalizing charge (128V
> pack)
> > tops out at 167V, (the correct # of volts per
> cell) as
> > recommended.
> >
> > In the winter, I've just now noticed that it is
> > topping out at 159V.
> >
> > Either there is a resistance/voltage loss
> between
> > terminals (see Interstate Battery saga) with the
> > ensuing corrosion building up a bit or,
> > The equalizing charge is supposed to go higher,
> due
> > to the cold temps. (about 3 degrees C lately), but
> the
> > charger won't go past 167, and the batteries are
> not
> > letting it go even that high for the ambient
> > temperature.
> >
> > Any ideas what's going on, great panel of
> > knowledge?
> > Appreciatively,
> >
> > =====
> > Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black &
> Decker mower
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
> > ____
> > /__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe
> came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
>
=====
Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
____
/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are
you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe,
These are the folks that made the battery watering system for the Tropica although
that system was discontinued long ago. The millennium us their current offering.
http://www.flow-rite.com/millennium/
I know where a bunch of the Tropica systems are if that's usefull. It was made in 3
circuits of 12 cells each. These are assembled with hoses but layed out for the
Tropica's battery configuration. You can probably get additional hose from FlowRite. I
purchased a quick disconnect, flow meter and regulator from them. I can't speak for
the quality of this system. I had to replace a couple of bad caps probably damaged in
the battery swap done by the previous owner. I haven't had enough time with it after
the replacement to know if it's truely fixed.
Steve
In a message dated 1/10/2003 2:05:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Joe Smalley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>I don't know where the come from. I have always seen them on cars that were
>already built. I never bought any. Can anyone else help him out?
>
>Joe Smalley
>Rural Kitsap County WA
>Fiesta 48 volts
>NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 2:12 AM
>Subject: bat watering sys was/ Charging questions
>
>
>> with some kind of floot shout off in the cap ? �how much are they and were
>> to get them . ?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi:
IMHO, the US Battery's SpeedCap" are your best option, and they will
also fit on Trojans as far as the intercell hole spacing is concerned
(it is the same in all GC and other type of batteries). Just make sure
the rubber gasket is tight. Many Trojan battery users switch to
SpeedCap"s because the original ganged caps from Trojan (Master Vent
snap in) leak and spit acid.
Trojan batteries gas more because they use 6% antimony positive grid
alloy vs. 5% for USBMC which gas less.
All caps will leak if you over fill by adding water before charging.
Always add water after charging and about 1/8" below the bottom edge of
the fill well.
Sincerely
Nawaz Qureshi
David Brandt wrote:
I can second that. I was leery of the speedcaps because of comments from
the list, but my battery guy said to try them, and they would give me the
other kind if they leaked. So far, they are dry as can be, and it is easier
to keep them clean. They seal VERY tightly, with lots of compression in the
gaskets. The caps on my old trojans leaked like they weren't even there,
and hardly had any compression in the gaskets.
The only bad point I've noticed about the speedcaps is that they take up a
lot of space, and can create interference problems with the interconnects.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Furniss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Trojan battery caps
I take it that the single twist caps are interchangeable between US battery
and Trojan, is there any opinion on which is better? I know that the new
speed caps from US battery have some kind of crystal in it to keep the acid
in the battery and it works great, the US battery's with those speed caps
are as dry as dust.
From: "Mark Hanson"
I had to change to the standard twist off caps. Mitch Oates just did too.
Chuck Hursch
I don't know if they are the same as yours (mine twist in like
most battery caps), but the big white caps on my Trojan T125s
turned up several leakers. I was fortunate enough to save the
good caps (smaller caps with 4 fins sticking out of them) from my
old US2300s (Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward, CA threw
in a bag of those when I got my first pack, and I eventually
swapped them in place of those funky 3-in-1 cap assemblies), and
those do much better than the Trojan caps. There is also the
matter of gasket seal to the rim of the cell. Sunday I was
gassing the spare T125s on the deck with an equalizing charge,
and noticed some acid leaking out around some of the Trojan caps.
Thought, oops, overfilled, but no the level had only come up
maybe a quarter inch or so. Just the good fizzing overpowered
the caps.
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU
SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY
READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would remove all the connections, confirm that all are reasonably fit (no
bum cells), then connect them all in parallel with some 12ga wire. Add a
12v charger delivering 5a or so constant current (you could probably get
away with more current, but this should be safe). Run the charger until
they've evened out to your satisfaction.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8 Jan 2003 at 16:36, Mason Convey wrote:
>
> i.e. tapping AVCON for 110 to feed an onboard charger...
>
Pardon my ignorance, but could this be done with something similar to an
incandescent light dimmer? Or would the ugly waveform resulting play hob
with the charger?
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switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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Wally World carries both inkjet bumper stickers and inkjet magnetic sheets.
Print your own one-off and away you go. (They're right next to the inkjet
photo paper in the office supplies section.)
Tim
-------
From�:� "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> �
To�:� <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> �
Subject�:� Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase. Make the bumper
sticker. �
Date�:� Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:13:12 -0800 �
PLUG INTO THE FUTURE New Times Roman(Western)62 pt.
ELECTRIC CARS ARE THE FUTURE same font 44 pt. both centered
Use this with Wordpad in windows.� Page setup Landscape .5 inch left and
right margins.
Theory behind this sticker.� The first line gets attention.� The second line
is smaller and has the main message.� Lawrence Rhodes.....Make your own
sticker.� If EVeryone uses this formula we will have a uniform sticker that
costs next to nothing.......
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
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--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Jan 2003 at 1:47, Chuck Hursch wrote:
> I got seven email bounces from Yahoo saying could not
> find the user at something like sccoast.net.
I've been getting those too.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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Got this off the military vehicles list... nice little military vehicle...
Diesel engine, to generator, to SAFT ni-cads, to electric driveline. Runs in
stealth mode on batteries only when needed....
Cool buggy. Can I have one?
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/shadow/
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--- Begin Message ---
Very nice job, thanks Bob.
- GT
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--- Begin Message ---
Got this off the military vehicles list... nice little military vehicle...
Diesel engine, to generator, to SAFT ni-cads, to electric driveline. Runs in
stealth mode on batteries only when needed....
Cool buggy. Can I have one?
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/shadow/
And 471 mile range with 22 MPG on the diesel generator at 30 MPH.
("With 95 litres of fuel, the Shadow has an unrefueled range of 758km
at a speed of 50km per hour.") Not bad, considering the fact that
it's a military vehicle. Only 19 miles of range on batteries alone,
though.
--
___________________________________________________
Michael Hurley Digital Print Specialist
AlphaGraphics, Inc. (901) 681-9909
1195 Ridgeway Rd. (901) 761-2139 FAX
Memphis, TN 38119 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob, Steve, & All,
Thanks for sharing the positiEV side!
It helped to erase the effects I felt from a very distasteful
comment in an artical appearing in our local rag this morning. I almost hate to
bring this up, but now that I've thought about it some more, and after reading
your bit, they've both actually served to help reinforce my own personal
resolve for our EV efforts.
Jim Waite
[Note: the comment below is in the middle of Patti Payne's column (Eastside
Journal *gossip*) at http://www.eastsidejournal.com/sited/story/html/117921
Please also note this is NOT in any way meant to disparage the otherwise fine
folks in Bellevue, WA, but WE in the EV community need to constantly remember
these types ARE out there and they REALLY DO NOT share our concerns ]
SHELTERED LIFE: A blue Ford Expedition was seen heading into a packed and tight
parking garage under the Harbor Club on 108th Northeast. Its driver guided the
Expedition, cramped in the small spaces, into a diagonal parking position
taking up several spaces.
``I was so mad,'' says Sally Gleason, trying to find parking under the same
building. ``When I confronted him, he had the gall to say, `Lady, I can buy and
sell you. I bought this car just to hack people like you off,' except he didn't
say `hack.' I asked him where he was from. He said Bellevue. I didn't know
people in Bellevue talked like that.''
Just ask retail sales people. They can tell you they've heard worse from
stressed customers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: (OT) EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
> Hi Bob, Steve, & All,
>
> Thanks for sharing the positiEV side!
>
> It helped to erase the effects I felt from a very distasteful
> comment in an artical appearing in our local rag this morning. I almost
hate to
> bring this up, but now that I've thought about it some more, and after
reading
> your bit, they've both actually served to help reinforce my own personal
> resolve for our EV efforts.
>
> Jim Waite
>
Hi All;
Thanks for the comments. Hay! That's what were here for, share, get the
EV word out, Friends, good times, and if America EVer gets out of the
Bushes, being ready to show that it can be done, as we are doing it already.
Had I won the Powerball...........
Seeya
Bob, I didn't play!
> [Note: the comment below is in the middle of Patti Payne's column
(Eastside
> Journal *gossip*) at
http://www.eastsidejournal.com/sited/story/html/117921
> Please also note this is NOT in any way meant to disparage the otherwise
fine
> folks in Bellevue, WA, but WE in the EV community need to constantly
remember
> these types ARE out there and they REALLY DO NOT share our concerns ]
>
>
> SHELTERED LIFE: A blue Ford Expedition was seen heading into a packed and
tight
> parking garage under the Harbor Club on 108th Northeast. Its driver guided
the
> Expedition, cramped in the small spaces, into a diagonal parking position
> taking up several spaces.
>
> ``I was so mad,'' says Sally Gleason, trying to find parking under the
same
> building. ``When I confronted him, he had the gall to say, `Lady, I can
buy and
> sell you. I bought this car just to hack people like you off,' except he
didn't
> say `hack.' I asked him where he was from. He said Bellevue. I didn't know
> people in Bellevue talked like that.''
>
> Just ask retail sales people. They can tell you they've heard worse from
> stressed customers.
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
At 09:35 AM 1/7/03 -0500, you wrote:
Any insiders have information about the 'ZAP' battery?
Someone on the powerassist list said that Zap was using the ThunderSky Li
Ion batteries.
compare this battery(right side of page)
http://www.zapworld.com/news/maces.htm
to this(bottom of page)
http://www.thunder-sky.com/Cpjs(En).htm
George S.
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--- Begin Message ---
Ametek works with MANY fuel cell companies (Probably 20-30)
Many of their efforts and applications have merit, but I'll have to
admit that
fuel cell vehicles at this point in time are a biggggggg stretch of the
imagination
when compared to battery electrics. There really is no comparison in
the near future
(at least 10 years unless there is a major breakthrough). Battery EV's
win hands down
and will be sufficient for the majority of 2nd vehicle families. It is
really unfortunate that
the GOV and big 3 keep avoiding the future by pushing SUV's and gas
sucking vehicles
just to make the bottom line for the next quarter profits. The only way
to slap them in the
face is for realistic gas prices that will push the public into more
realistic vehicles.
Hopefully hybrids will be the intermediate step, but the big 3 are years
behind the competition
in this area as well.
I guess they will soon be SLAPPED hard by reality when they try to catch up
with Toyota and Honda.
Rod
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 6 Jan 2003 at 15:04, Lonnie Borntreger wrote:
Hmmm. And I thought that battery powered cars didn't have enough range
for the car companies.
-------------------
... The FCV is able to travel 150
kilometers (about 93 miles) without needing to refill its 1.8-kilogram
compressed hydrogen fuel storage tank.
Yeah, how come this "journalist" didn't write "able to travel ONLY 150 km
(just 93 miles) without a LENGTHY, EXPENSIVE, TIME CONSUMING refill of its
HEAVY, BULKY hydrogen tank"?
Ever notice that the news writers always used the qualifying "ONLY" with
EVs? In fact, didn't one of them recently say an NiMH EV1 could "ONLY" go
150 miles on a charge? If this were an EV and had a 200 mile range, they
still would have written it that way. Heck, even 300 miles probably
wouldn't be enough for these guys. But this is a fool cell, and Detroit is
"behind" it, so limited range is no problem at all!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
now the second link should work.
Any insiders have information about the 'ZAP' battery?
Someone on the powerassist list said that Zap was using the ThunderSky Li
Ion batteries.
compare this battery(right side of page)
http://www.zapworld.com/news/maces.htm
to this(bottom of page)
http://www.thunder-sky.com/Cpjs(En).htm
George S.
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--- Begin Message ---
>> ... he drives his Prius slowly and tenderly enough to keep it in
>> electric mode for 15 to 30 minutes. Then he gets back on the
>> freeway, and the gas engine kicks in... The catalytic converter
>> has probably also cooled down... I'd expect a good shot of HC out
>> of the tailpipe.
We have a Prius. What would actually happen is that during your 15-30
minutes of low-speed driving, the engine would automatically restart
every 5-10 minutes, and run for just a minute or two to recharge the
batteries and keep the engine and catalytic converter warm.
If you have the heater or air conditioner on, it also runs the engine
just to keep you comfy; so in this car, using the heater or air
conditioner CAN increase emissions and reduce gas mileage.
Crabb, David wrote:
> isn't this like saying someone should leave their engine idling
> while they go in to get food at the grocery store so that their
> converter stays hot?
>
> I suppose one would have to balance how much puke goes out your
> tailpipe while you are idling, vs how much goes out in that little
> squirt.
Exactly. The engine wastes gas and pollutes more when just started. But
zero gas and zero pollution when stopped. With the right information,
you could figure out how long the engine must be off to counteract the
extra squirt when started. But I don't know that that number is.
Most cars defeat the emissions controls when cold or being started, so
they are especially dirty then. The Prius is probably the only car on
the road that has paid special attention to minimizing emissions even
when cold or being started. Toward this end, they capture the unburned
hydrocarbons in the exhaust when cold, and burn them later in the
catalytic converter when it has warmed up.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> I was thinking that knowing what bat got a lot of time from the BMS
> would be a quick way to find a bad battery.
Yes, it does. Though, you have to pay attention to it.
After the initial 6 months or so with my Balancer (during which time I
was playing with it all the time), I basically got used to it and left
it alone in "set and forget" mode for nearly a year. I noticed that one
battery was getting more balancing time, but didn't figure out how much.
When I finally checked, I was amazed to discover it was 90%. I checked
battery capacities, and that one was only 16ah (the rest were 35-40ah).
I had been able to keep driving with a bad battery without noticing it!
> I was checking the water today and noticed that a few were getting
> a little low (still covering the plates) others looked fine. From my
> volt meter I would not have thought any thing was wrong.
That's right. Lack of water does not cause any significant changes in a
flooded battery's behavior until it gets really low.
Any kind of balancing system will also mean that some batteries get
charged more than others, which means they will use water at different
rates.
> Was thinking about your H sensor or pressure sensor to tell when the
> bat was gassing
If the battery is already sealed, I think a pressure sensor would be the
easy route. Just drill a little hole and screw it in. The acid
environment would be tough, but commercial sensors do it by filling the
sensor with oil or something to keep acid from touching the diaphragm.
If it's a flooded battery, the case can't be sealed -- it has to vent.
That's where a hydrogen sensor makes more sense. Another idea is a
half-cell sensor; this is a little wire made of the right metal that
reaches in and touches the electrolyte. You measure the voltage between
this wire and one of the plates to determine the state of charge. This
one is interesting because if the electrolyte level drops, the wire no
longer touches and the voltage goes away. Therefore it can also serve as
a low-water sensor.
Another fun idea for floodeds; pressure on the ends seems to keep them
from swelling with age, and may extend life. So, put hoses on the vent
caps, and pull a partial vacuum on them. When the vacuum pump starts
running, it means a cell is gassing, and thus nearing full charge.
The partial vacuum will keep the cases from swelling, and also
eliminates problems with leaky posts, vent caps, and other sources of
acid mist and corrosion. It will take a pretty good vacuum pump to
withstand the hydrogen and sulfuric acid mist, though.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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