EV Digest 2524
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: daewoo, gliders
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase. Make the bumper sticker.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Trojan battery caps
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT: Driver training
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: OT: Driver training
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Temperature & Charging question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) KTA Email?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Successful Hybrid Conversion - getting OT
by "Crabb, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: KTA Email?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Range
by "john kangas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase.
by "john kangas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Stinking gas gensets, Was: RE: Successful Hybrid Conversion
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Battery monitor IC intended for pack integration
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Stinking gas gensets, Was: RE: Successful Hybrid Conversion
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase.
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Charging questions
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New GhiaMonster Pictures...
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Temperature & Charging question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Charging questions
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Zap battery.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) bat watering sys was/ Charging questions
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: bat watering sys was/ Charging questions
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Evercell cycling report for cycle 149
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Trojan battery caps
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Jan 2003 at 10:26, Evan Tuer wrote:
> > Also, I'm pretty sure that ATT, which has shown a reportedly nice prototype
> > electric car at various venues, was founded by ex-Daewoo people.
>
> Haven't heard of them at all, any more info?
http://www.attrd.com/
The Invita is just another NEV (yawn), but the Parade is a nice useful EV.
It's a little reminiscent of the Honda EV+, though more carlike. Check it
out.
Wish I could buy one. Hmm, I see a note under the pic on the homepage,
"Available in 2005." Keep your fingers crossed.
>
> The Sssangyong Musso has to be one of the most awful looking vehicles ever
> built - I don't understand how people can drive these things, never mind part
> with actual money for them!
They're big sellers in Korea. To make it worse, most of them use diesel
fuel, which just makes Korea's already bad smog worse.
The big SUVs and vans (which there accounted for half of new vehicle sales
last year, just like in the US) also exacerbate parking problems. Korea is
one of the world's most densely populated nations, and as private vehicle
ownership skyrockets they're running up against limits on space for them.
Actually it seems like the roads themselves are turning into parking lots.
Most of the daylight hours, the Seoul expressways are at a crawl except for
the bus lanes (which car drivers often risk arrest to use). On major
holiday weekends (when Koreans return to their ancestral homes for
ceremonies) average highway speeds throughout the country drop to around 20
mph. It can take 3-4 times the normal period to reach your destination.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PLUG INTO THE FUTURE New Times Roman(Western)62 pt.
ELECTRIC CARS ARE THE FUTURE same font 44 pt. both centered
Use this with Wordpad in windows. Page setup Landscape .5 inch left and
right margins.
Theory behind this sticker. The first line gets attention. The second line
is smaller and has the main message. Lawrence Rhodes.....Make your own
sticker. If EVeryone uses this formula we will have a uniform sticker that
costs next to nothing.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase.
> Yeah, it was "electric breadbox", rather than "bread basket". I
> like your idea of "Plug into the future", kinda like tapping into
> the stream as it moves into the electric future...
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 9:33 AM
> Subject: Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase.
>
>
> > This kind of rumour making and big lie make me want to use it
> to the
> > advantage of the EV cause. How about "Plug in to the future.
> Electric cars
> > are the future." or "Plug it in, Plug it in." oops that has
> already been
> > used. HMMMMMMM....Anybody have a bumper sticker made up?
> Lawrence
> > Rhodes.......
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:01 AM
> > Subject: electric breadbasket
> >
> >
> > > Saw today (in Tuesday's San Francisco Chronicle) a full page
> ad
> > > from GM, announcing that they will be using hybrid technology
> in
> > > several models this year. A couple of trucks, like the
> Tahoe,
> > > come to mind. But right at the start of the dialog, they
> gotta
> > > nail electrics, just like Toyota and Honda do with their
> "don't
> > > have to plug it in" phrase. If I recall correctly, the
> starting
> > > phrase was something to the effect of "Unlike electric
> > > breadbaskets...". So here is a third automaker now bashing
> > > electrics in their ads. Gimme a break! One of the biggest
> > > reasons I want to plug it in is to get away from the infernal
> > > fossil fuel infrastructure that gives them the chance to say
> "and
> > > a motor that never needs plugged in". I wonder how many
> people
> > > buy that as being an advantage.
>
> [snip]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I take it that the single twist caps are interchangeable between US battery
and Trojan, is there any opinion on which is better? I know that the new
speed caps from US battery have some kind of crystal in it to keep the acid
in the battery and it works great, the US battery's with those speed caps
are as dry as dust.
From: "Mark Hanson"
> I had to change to the standard twist off caps. Mitch Oates just did too.
> Chuck Hursch
> I don't know if they are the same as yours (mine twist in like
> most battery caps), but the big white caps on my Trojan T125s
> turned up several leakers. I was fortunate enough to save the
> good caps (smaller caps with 4 fins sticking out of them) from my
> old US2300s (Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward, CA threw
> in a bag of those when I got my first pack, and I eventually
> swapped them in place of those funky 3-in-1 cap assemblies), and
> those do much better than the Trojan caps. There is also the
> matter of gasket seal to the rim of the cell. Sunday I was
> gassing the spare T125s on the deck with an equalizing charge,
> and noticed some acid leaking out around some of the Trojan caps.
> Thought, oops, overfilled, but no the level had only come up
> maybe a quarter inch or so. Just the good fizzing overpowered
> the caps.
>
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 08:30:03AM -0500, Chris Tromley wrote:
> There ain't nothin' like the real thing.
I don't disagree at all, but it's a lot better than nothing and a lot
safer and cheaper. I would say the simulator ought to be the step
in between driver's ed and the performance driving school.
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oddly enough in ~1974 when I took drivers Ed we had a large semi-trailer
come to the school with about 10 stations. Each had a seat, steering wheel,
turn signals and peddles. There was movie screen at the front and the idea
was to watch the movie and drive your car to match the screen. Arrows would
appear to indicate the direction to turn at intersections. If you failed to
activate your turn signals or break appropriately or drove too fast then
alarm bells went off. I don't know how much I really learned from it but it
was kind of fun. I have not idea how the feedback systems worked since that
was really before microprocessors were in general use and mini's were very
expensive.
Lawrence Harris
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Batie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: January 09, 2003 11:23
To: Chris Tromley
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: OT: Driver training
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 08:30:03AM -0500, Chris Tromley wrote:
> There ain't nothin' like the real thing.
I don't disagree at all, but it's a lot better than nothing and a lot
safer and cheaper. I would say the simulator ought to be the step
in between driver's ed and the performance driving school.
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I first upgraded my pack voltage, I got a
programming resistor kit that allowed for 124V pack,
or 144V pack, but not a 128V pack (my size). I was
advised to go with the 124V pack resistor, that I
could adjust it high enough to get the proper
equalizing charge.
During the summer, my equalizing charge (128V pack)
tops out at 167V, (the correct # of volts per cell) as
recommended.
In the winter, I've just now noticed that it is
topping out at 159V.
Either there is a resistance/voltage loss between
terminals (see Interstate Battery saga) with the
ensuing corrosion building up a bit or,
The equalizing charge is supposed to go higher, due
to the cold temps. (about 3 degrees C lately), but the
charger won't go past 167, and the batteries are not
letting it go even that high for the ambient
temperature.
Any ideas what's going on, great panel of
knowledge?
Appreciatively,
=====
Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
____
/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are
you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have an email address for KTA? Thanks.
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
isn't this like saying someone should leave their engine idling
while they go in to get food at the grocery store..
so that their converter stays hot ?
I suppose one would have to balance how much puke goes out your tailpipe
while you are idling,
vs how much goes out in that little squirt.
> >So say Mr. Prius pulls off a freeway into a big gated community
> >with a close-in shopping center. Somehow he manages to drive his
> >Prius slowly and tenderly enough in this area to keep it in
> >electric mode for the better part of 15 to 30 minutes, or longer.
> >Then he has to get back out on the freeway, in which case the gas
> >engine kicks in. At this point, I would have to wonder whether
> >the intake ports behind the valves, along with the cylinder
> >walls, have cooled down enough to cause at least a bit of fuel
> >settling out, which is then not combusted properly and goes
> >squirting out the exhaust port. The catalytic converter has
> >probably also cooled down, unless it's electrically heated or as
> >well insulated as a dewar, and I would think it would have to
> >relight. I'd expect a good shot of HC out of the tailpipe.
>
> >EV, what have you, get the gas engine warmed up and keep it
> >there. None of this short trip stuff for the gas motor if I can
> >help it. But I will let it sit for upwards of two months between
> >uses, any longer and I'll go purposefully exercise it with a run
> >down the freeway. I've had some concern about what goes on with
> >engine oil film after sitting a month or two and one does a cold
> >start. Had thought a few years ago about getting an oil
> >precharge system, but I was dissuaded by engineering expertise
> >telling me that the oil film tends to last a long time. Also
> >install and use costs and hassles. So far, after several years,
> >I can't really detect this being a problem for the engine.
> >Sometimes a little valve clatter on start-up, but it usually goes
> >away in a few seconds.
>
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
Ken doesn't _do_ e-mail. It's Ken's only downfall,
as far as I'm concerned, but it probably cuts down on
the "lookylou factor."
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone have an email address for KTA? Thanks.
>
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
=====
Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
____
/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are
you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, how come this "journalist" didn't write "able to travel ONLY 150 km
(just 93 miles) without a LENGTHY, EXPENSIVE, TIME CONSUMING refill of its
HEAVY, BULKY hydrogen tank"?
Ever notice that the news writers always used the qualifying "ONLY" with
EVs? In fact, didn't one of them recently say an NiMH EV1 could "ONLY" go
150 miles on a charge? If this were an EV and had a 200 mile range, they
still would have written it that way. Heck, even 300 miles probably
wouldn't be enough for these guys. But this is a fool cell, and Detroit is
"behind" it, so limited range is no problem at all!
It's how they write stories a lot of the time, just go with the provided
quote. It keeps the liability away, it seems like only sports and weather
are the only news topics that aren't just rehashed quotes from whoever.
What I'm wondering is how much of this range is accounted for by the fuel
cell alone, these things all seem to have big piles of batteries stuffed in
the corners.
John
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MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This kind of rumour making and big lie make me want to use it
to the
> advantage of the EV cause. How about "Plug in to the future.
Electric cars
> are the future." or "Plug it in, Plug it in." oops that has
already been
> used. HMMMMMMM....Anybody have a bumper sticker made up?
Lawrence
> Rhodes.......
It would be a big bumper sticker, but maybe a scene from your favorite
action movie, where the gas car bumps into something and explodes. Giant
fireball and everything.
Electric cars don't do that! ;-)
John
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I just talked to Dave about his gas genny this morning, as he had upgraded
the exhaust system and was giving me an update. I've been pestering him to
convert from gas to propane, short of getting a diesel engine to run the
clean veggie oil, since he built the contraption. And he just got a new
pack, so he shouldn't even be fiddling around with his genny unless he is
still breaking in batteries. Why don't we ALL pester him to convert to
propane, unless he swears that he is not going to use gas regularly? :)
As far as what's in my garage, the S10 EV is in there to keep the batteries
warm, along with my 10KVA gas genny, but I don't have any gas in it, and
don't plan on putting any in anytime soon. My genny might get more use, if
I would just convert it to propane!
Still sucking amps instead of gas on the polluted Front Range,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Lyons, CO
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 16 year-old son!)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:19:30 -0700
>
>The Subaru OHV engine on mine produces less emission than most. It
>meets CA emission requirements, though I haven't read what they are. It
>can also be converted to run on Propane, at the expense of power and
>ease of use. I do like the bio-diesel idea. If my engine dies it will
>likely be replaced with a diesel.
<snip>
>What's in your garage?
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got this announcement from TI. Although targeted for wireless
phones, PDAs, etc., it might be a good candidate for a EV battery
management system:
"The BQ26220 battery monitor accurately measures the charge and
discharge currents in rechargeable battery packs. Intended for pack
integration, it contains all the necessary functions to form the basis
of a comprehensive battery capacity management system in portable
applications."
Web site at http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/bq26220.html
PDF datasheet at http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/bq26220.pdf";
Alex Karahalios
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 18:44, David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
> All,
> I just talked to Dave about his gas genny this morning, as he had upgraded
> the exhaust system and was giving me an update. I've been pestering him to
> convert from gas to propane, short of getting a diesel engine to run the
> clean veggie oil, since he built the contraption. And he just got a new
> pack, so he shouldn't even be fiddling around with his genny unless he is
> still breaking in batteries. Why don't we ALL pester him to convert to
> propane, unless he swears that he is not going to use gas regularly? :)
>
That's easy, we don't pester him to switch to propane because it's too
easy to end up with MORE pollution instead of less. In fact that's why
it's no longer legal for individuals to convert vehicles to propane,
most of them ended up with higher pollution levels than when they ran on
gas.
Propane 'can' be cleaner burning, but you really have to know what you
are doing and even then you need an emissions test to be sure you set it
up right.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
how about "I'd rather switch than fight /bring on the electric cars" from
the cigarette ad "I'd rather fight that switch" or "America's ultimate
weapon against terrorism the electric car" If somebody comes up with a good
one I'll buy some bumper stickers
----- Original Message -----
From: "john kangas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase.
> > > This kind of rumour making and big lie make me want to use it
> >to the
> > > advantage of the EV cause. How about "Plug in to the future.
> >Electric cars
> > > are the future." or "Plug it in, Plug it in." oops that has
> >already been
> > > used. HMMMMMMM....Anybody have a bumper sticker made up?
> >Lawrence
> > > Rhodes.......
>
>
> It would be a big bumper sticker, but maybe a scene from your favorite
> action movie, where the gas car bumps into something and explodes. Giant
> fireball and everything.
> Electric cars don't do that! ;-)
>
> John
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking that knowing what bat got a lot of time from the BMS would
be a quick way to find a bad battery .
I was checking the water today and noticed that a few were getting a little
low (still covering the plates ) others looked fine . From my volt meter I
would not have though any thing was wrong. I'm not sure but it almost looks
like the voltage might go up a little (very little) on a battery that's
getting low on water. It would be nice to know if there was something to
look out for that would be a bell ringer for low water( I know just lift the
cap and look ) .
Was thinking about your H sensor or presser sensor to tell when the bat
was gassing and if there was a battery watering sys you'd have the hoses
already . I've never seen one so I don't know how they work or if they have
a hose for each cell .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Charging questions
> 1sclunn wrote:
> > I leave [the 70w solar panel] on the 12v system battery most of
> > the time so as not to throw out of balance the pack. I would think
> > that your automatic sys would bounce around quite a bit?
>
> Since it switches with relays, I kept the switching speed very low. It
> takes from 5 minutes to an hour to scan all batteries (unless the user
> is prompting it to go faster). Balancing is a slow process anyway. You
> read all the voltages, that tells you which one is low, and you charge
> it for a number of minutes proportional to how low it is. Then repeat.
>
> > Do you have a way of telling what bat the BMS is charging?
>
> Yes, there is an LED for each relay. The simplest user interface is just
> the digital multimeter which shows the battery voltage, and the LEDs to
> tell which battery it is showing.
>
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On a side note, I was wondering if anyone had a feeling for what kind of EM
danger three 8" Warps with half a megawatt going through them might generate
=o/ In the 3D model the motors are inline going down the car's centerline
right between the driver and passenger. Obviously, there would need to be
some kind of shielding between the motors and personnel if for no other
reason than to offer some protection against fireballs. What would be
appropriate for this shielding to also make the EM fields safe if they
represent a hazard at all?
I don't think the low-frequency (and DC) fields present are
harmful in any way. As you said, there needs to be a shield between the
passenger compartment and the motors and all the high-current wiring, but
this is for plasma protection.
I would suggest that you keep the control wiring completely
separate from the high-current wiring to prevent "cross-talk" problems.
Also, its smart to run the high current wiring in bundled pairs. This
reduces the "presented area" and greatly reduces the field strength
surrounding the wires (and then coupling into control wires.)
I've seen more than one car with a big loop of high current wiring
that goes around the perimeter of the car. This makes a nifty loop antenna
that surrounds all the electronics and instruments in the car quite nicely.
Everything would go haywire when they attempted to operate at (or even
near) full throttle.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First off, you have two or more things going wrong at the same time.
1) In the winter, the voltage is supposed to go up as the temperature goes
down. The normally quoted value is -2 millivolts per cell per degree C. Your
charger is not temperature compensated and it should be. The voltage setting
resistor needs to be changed to get the manual voltage control to have
enough range to get the battery voltage up higher than 167 Volts. If the
programming resistor is simply a resistor, you can interpolate the value
from measuring the 144 volt resistor and the 124 volt resistor. The new
value should be calculated using a weighted average:
(124 volt resistor value) *16/20 + (144 volt resistor value) *4/20
The pack voltage should jump up higher than when you put the pack on charge
last summer. You may have a shorted cell or other problem causing the pack
voltage to be lower than the summer normal pack voltage.
2) If you had a terminal problem, the voltage at the charger would be higher
than at the pack terminals. If you are measuring the 157 volts at the
charger, then the charger has a problem. If you are measuring 157 at the
battery and 167 at the charger, you have a voltage loss problem. If you have
a 10 amp charger and you see a 10 volt drop somewhere in the system, you are
dumping 100 watts into that voltage drop resulting in something potentially
getting very hot. If it has a chance, it could melt or burn something.
I would advise you to check around the charge circuit for voltage drops.
Make sure you have about 2.3 to 2.5 volts per cell near the end of charge on
all your batteries and make sure all the connections from the charger to the
batteries have less than one volt of drop. If you find something out of the
ordinary (excessively low or high) battery voltage or a connection with
excessive voltage drop, investigate further.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:19 PM
Subject: Temperature & Charging question
> When I first upgraded my pack voltage, I got a
> programming resistor kit that allowed for 124V pack,
> or 144V pack, but not a 128V pack (my size). I was
> advised to go with the 124V pack resistor, that I
> could adjust it high enough to get the proper
> equalizing charge.
> During the summer, my equalizing charge (128V pack)
> tops out at 167V, (the correct # of volts per cell) as
> recommended.
>
> In the winter, I've just now noticed that it is
> topping out at 159V.
>
> Either there is a resistance/voltage loss between
> terminals (see Interstate Battery saga) with the
> ensuing corrosion building up a bit or,
> The equalizing charge is supposed to go higher, due
> to the cold temps. (about 3 degrees C lately), but the
> charger won't go past 167, and the batteries are not
> letting it go even that high for the ambient
> temperature.
>
> Any ideas what's going on, great panel of
> knowledge?
> Appreciatively,
>
> =====
> Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
> ____
> /__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As the water evaporates or gasses out of the cell, the acid concentration
goes up and therefore increases the voltage slightly. This effect can easily
be hidden in temperature changes and is not reliable enough for predicting a
low water level.
A battery watering system usually has a tube that runs from cell to cell in
series (daisy chain) and attaches to two nipples (one in and one out) on
each cap. Water is forced in the first tube and fills the first cell. When
it gets full, the water is diverted out the second nipple on the first cap
and into the second cell. This happens to each cell in the order that the
hose is routed. When the final cell gets full, the last cap spews the excess
water into a catch tank for reuse.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: Charging questions
> I was thinking that knowing what bat got a lot of time from the BMS would
> be a quick way to find a bad battery .
> I was checking the water today and noticed that a few were getting a
little
> low (still covering the plates ) others looked fine . From my volt meter I
> would not have though any thing was wrong. I'm not sure but it almost
looks
> like the voltage might go up a little (very little) on a battery that's
> getting low on water. It would be nice to know if there was something to
> look out for that would be a bell ringer for low water( I know just lift
the
> cap and look ) .
> Was thinking about your H sensor or presser sensor to tell when the
bat
> was gassing and if there was a battery watering sys you'd have the hoses
> already . I've never seen one so I don't know how they work or if they
have
> a hose for each cell .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is all I can find. Lawrence Rhodes.........
http://www.cesweb.org/for_press_analysts/new_products/new_product_detail.asp
?prodid=1789
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> A battery watering system usually has a tube that runs from cell to cell
in
> series (daisy chain) and attaches to two nipples (one in and one out) on
> each cap. Water is forced in the first tube and fills the first cell. When
> it gets full, the water is diverted
with some kind of floot shout off in the cap ? how much are they and were
to get them . ?
out the second nipple on the first cap
> and into the second cell. This happens to each cell in the order that the
> hose is routed. When the final cell gets full, the last cap spews the
excess
> water into a catch tank for reuse.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Charging questions
>
>
> > I was thinking that knowing what bat got a lot of time from the BMS
would
> > be a quick way to find a bad battery .
> > I was checking the water today and noticed that a few were getting a
> little
> > low (still covering the plates ) others looked fine . From my volt meter
I
> > would not have though any thing was wrong. I'm not sure but it almost
> looks
> > like the voltage might go up a little (very little) on a battery that's
> > getting low on water. It would be nice to know if there was something to
> > look out for that would be a bell ringer for low water( I know just lift
> the
> > cap and look ) .
> > Was thinking about your H sensor or presser sensor to tell when the
> bat
> > was gassing and if there was a battery watering sys you'd have the hoses
> > already . I've never seen one so I don't know how they work or if they
> have
> > a hose for each cell .
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know where the come from. I have always seen them on cars that were
already built. I never bought any. Can anyone else help him out?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 2:12 AM
Subject: bat watering sys was/ Charging questions
> with some kind of floot shout off in the cap ? how much are they and were
> to get them . ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
I thought ya would enjoy Steve Tanner's reply to the letter I sent him.
He did a nice local article out on the Left Coast a few weeks back. I had
forgotten about it. Most letters of this sort arent responded to. But it
surprised me. Here it is;
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Tanner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Bob Rice' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: EV-1
> Hi Bob,
>
> Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you.... I really enjoyed
reading
> your witty and thoughtful message regarding the EV-1 story. I didn't
realize
> just how die-hard the electric vehicle community is until after this story
> was published (I got a lot of feedback).
>
> Bush is rolling back environmental and social programs and standards so
> fast, I find it extremely difficult to keep up with it all (he and his
> cronies have damaged this nation -- and the earth -- in so many ways, it's
> impossible to assess the damage in whole). But I applaud the efforts of
> people like you who refuse to roll over and accept defeat. Every major
> advancement in this country, from Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat
at
> the front of the bus to Nader's countless contributions to our safety and
> liberty, have started out at the grass roots level.
>
> But I digress....
>
> I actually had a chance to test drive a GM EV-1 a few weeks ago and was
> absoutely amazed - especially by how quick and agile it is (super-fast
> acceleration, great handling). But I can't tell you how common it is to
see
> one individual commuting to work each day in a 9-mpg Lincoln Navigator. It
> just steams me how irresponsible and arrogant that is. Maybe that's just
> part of being an American, the 'rugged invidualism' which carries an
extreme
> disregard to community on the flip side.
>
> Time is running out.... what was once only theory is now being proven. Why
> does every summer bring new heat records? It's not rocket science (though
> it is science, despite what Bush and other heads-in-the-sand politicians
> say).
>
> Anyway, thanks for the note and keep up the good work.
>
> PS: How did you get your hands on this story?
>
> PSS: Would you like me to mail you some hard copies?
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Tanner
>
> technology/lifestyles reporter
> Silicon Valley Business Ink
> San Jose, California
> (408) 535-5630
>
> http://www.svbizink.com
>
> > ----------
> > From: Bob Rice
> > Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2003 9:18 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: EV-1
> >
> > Dear Steve;
> >
> > Wow! Thanks for a great PRO-EVarticle! You don't know mw. I am a
nobody
> > in CT which was forwarded a copy on line. There are, maybe 5-6 Working
> > EV's
> > in CT far from CA's more forward thinking transportation out look. We
> > follow
> > CA's lead on new stuff. I'm Vice Prez at our Chapter in New England, of
> > the
> > Electric Auto Assoc, in Worcester, MA, where it is a relative hotbed of
> > EV's. Must be a dozen there? There are no slick EV-1's or Toyota Rav-4's
> > for
> > sure. These are dedicated hobbiests, with conversions of gas rigs to
> > electric.
> >
> > I converted a fairly clean, VW Rabbit, a favorite car of converters,
> > cheap to buy, and tons of aftermarket parts to use on mods, to set it up
> > for
> > electrification. I push the EV commute envelope with a 56 mile RT to
work,
> > my OTHER EV Antraks electric trains on the Northeast Corridor RR
service,
> > as
> > a locomotive engineer, my rides are ALL electric.Ct has alota factors to
> > make it NOT ideal for EV's hills, cold weather, too many gas rigs
> > cluttering
> > up our roads, like SUV's So having a car with a 70 MPH top speed is no
> > impediment on the road. I pass a lotta gas cars, and, of course, get
> > passed
> > by some, too. Nomatter WHAT you drive, SOMEbody has to pass you, It's a
> > male
> > thing, I guess? People in parking lots and Mauls always look,and ask,
when
> > I
> > do "Show and Tell" "Where can I get an EV? That's Just what I need, with
a
> > 5
> > mile RT to work EVery day?" You tell them that they hafta BUILD one for
> > them
> > selves, you cant just BUY one at your friendly General Murders dealer.
> > They
> > don't want you running around with 8 moving parts in the motor(Brushes)
> > but
> > a 300 bux per stop at the dealer"Check Engine" lite routine.
> >
> > Not to mention that we, USA arre burning up most of the Earth's
> > resourses, so what if they find more oil? Nobody ever sez, " Hey, were
> > breathing this burnt crap in the air" The ice caps are melting you can
> > SAIL
> > to the North Pole, now, no ice in the summer.Not that I'd care to<g>!
> >
> > We at EAA try to promote EV's and the advantages of them, but, until
> > USA
> > comes out of the Bushes, and can elect non oil interests to run the
show,
> > I
> > see little hope for change.With the de fanging of Air standards in CA,
and
> > elsewhare, it looks WORSE EVery year.Hundreds of us EVer's have sorta
> > banded
> > together on Line with the Electric Vehicle Discussion List online. We
> > arent
> > so much alone, anymore. I have hooked up with other EVers on line, all
> > over
> > the World. We share our experiances, tech help, is a click away. Not to
> > mention many fine friends I have made in this medium.
> >
> > The Chinese, South Koreans, Norwegians maybe will bring a EV to our
> > shores, and sell them in mumbers to make our Cartell notice? They
laughed
> > when Toyota unleashed the Toyopet on our shores back in the 60's and the
> > VW
> > Beetle, of which I had MANY before the EV bug bit.
> >
> > I always ask somebody, to make a point, havya been up in an airplane
> > lately? Didyu notice the glop you lifted out of when you looked DOWN
after
> > the plane climbed out? And how deliciously clean and blue the sky is
ABOVE
> > the jet? That down below is the crap you are breathing EVery day! Now,
> > that
> > gets nods of agreement.
> >
> > Bottom line, finally. We in usa could advance our world credibility
> > with
> > a EV program, plenty of market out there as second cars, or in my case
> > first
> > car, I do have a gas car as a backup for my EV, and for longer trips,
but
> > it
> > is the EV that duz the "Gofur" work.
> >
> > Steve, thanks for carrying our banner a few minutes, we need all the
> > help
> > we can get.
> >
> > Seeya
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The evercel being cycled to death has reached cycle 149.
The summary graphic is located at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/evercel%20cycle%20149%20summary.gif
The capacity is now just under 73 ahr.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Single twist caps seem to be interchangeable, but the speed caps
(I take it these are the 3-in-1 caps) would not be, since it
least between the Trojan T-125 and US-125, the spacing of the
cell filler holes is different.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Furniss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Trojan battery caps
> I take it that the single twist caps are interchangeable
between US battery
> and Trojan, is there any opinion on which is better? I know
that the new
> speed caps from US battery have some kind of crystal in it to
keep the acid
> in the battery and it works great, the US battery's with those
speed caps
> are as dry as dust.
>
> From: "Mark Hanson"
>
> > I had to change to the standard twist off caps. Mitch Oates
just did too.
>
> > Chuck Hursch
> > I don't know if they are the same as yours (mine twist in
like
> > most battery caps), but the big white caps on my Trojan T125s
> > turned up several leakers. I was fortunate enough to save
the
> > good caps (smaller caps with 4 fins sticking out of them)
from my
> > old US2300s (Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward, CA
threw
> > in a bag of those when I got my first pack, and I eventually
> > swapped them in place of those funky 3-in-1 cap assemblies),
and
> > those do much better than the Trojan caps. There is also the
> > matter of gasket seal to the rim of the cell. Sunday I was
> > gassing the spare T125s on the deck with an equalizing
charge,
> > and noticed some acid leaking out around some of the Trojan
caps.
> > Thought, oops, overfilled, but no the level had only come up
> > maybe a quarter inch or so. Just the good fizzing
overpowered
> > the caps.
> >
>
>
> www.lasvegasev.com
> Richard Furniss
> Las Vegas, NV
> 1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> 1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> 3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> Board Member, www.lveva.org
> Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
