EV Digest 2527
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: New EV Project
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: New EV Project
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: New EV Project
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: How Best To Promote Our Cause
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: (OT) EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) OT Anti SUV ADs NPR's Mandalit Del Barco reports on Arianna Huffington
new TV commercials rolled out
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: New EV Project
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: How Best To Promote Our Cause
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV, Comments.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Evercel MB80's won't fit!
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) TAL Charger Premature Shutdown?
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: (OT) EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Evercel MB80's won't fit!
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Message to Click & Clack the Tappet Bros.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) for sale
by Gary Flo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Evercel MB80's won't fit!
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Evercel MB80's won't fit!
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
It sounds like you've got the makings for an interesting project. I think
the ADC motor can drive your small motorcycle. But it will need much
more than 48 volts to develop the speed and power needed for spirited
running. 144 volts should be enough.
I'm skeptical about making a good freeway commuter. I haven't seen or read
about a good example. The necessary batteries get too heavy and bulky if
you strive for freeway speed and good range. I can see a motorcycle with a
small battery pack that outaccelerates most other vehicles, does an
occasional wheelie or burnout or 80 mph short sprint and goes maybe 8 miles
on a charge.
Talk to John Wayland about making your little motorcycle fly. He will know
what needs to be done.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 7:13 PM
Subject: New EV Project
> Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one of the
> kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
>
> I just brought home the donor vehicle today. It is a 1974 Suzuki GT250.
It
> has less then 5000 miles on it, and is in decent shape. There is some
rust
> on some of the chrome, some scratches on some of the paint, the lights
don't
> seem to work, and the front brake sticks. It seems to have a nice strong
> frame and be in sound shape other then that. It even has the original
> tires. I gave the kids some rides up and down the street, but the
> carberauter seems to need adjusting, and it is noisy, and stinky, so
rather
> then run the gas all the way out like I was planning, I think I will just
> drain the tank and tear into it.
>
> The basic plan is this. ADC 6.7 inch motor. The main reason I chose
this,
> is because I was able to get it for $125. John Wayland has a bunch he is
> selling at that price. The controller is a Curtis 1204 36-48V 275A.
> Batteries are still undetermined, but I have 6 Hawker GP13s that I am
going
> to use to test with after I get it assembled before I make my final
> batteries decision. I want to build this to do a fairly long commute, 25
> miles one way, mostly freeway, and I want to see what kind of WH/Mile I
end
> up with before commiting to batteris. Right now I am thinking that 4
Group
> 31 Optimas are the most likely choice. I would love to do Evercells, but
> we'll see when anyone can actually get their hands on some. I am also
still
> considering NiCads. If I go with AGM's I will probably use a modular
> charger made up of 4 of the Toshiba Laptop chargers. After the thread
> started about these being great for charging AGM's I realized I had a
couple
> laying around. I have been playing with them on my Hawkers and they
really
> do well. I actually have two different versions, one rated at 2 amps and
> one rated at 2.7 amps. John and I hooked one up to one of my Hawkers and
> measured it pumping in over 4 amps and it didn't seem to be breaking much
of
> a sweat, it did taper down after that.
>
> I would rather be doing a car then a motorcycle, but everything about
doing
> a motorcycle costs less, and around here motorcycles get HOV access but
> electric cars don't. Also with the low budget I can buid a motorcycle,
and
> won't have to get rid of my Honda Insight, so I can have both an EV and
> Hybrid. If I were doing a car, I would have to sell the Insight.
>
> I would have loved doing a small truck. The problem is I was seriously
> considering buying Paul G (Neon)s VW truck. He only wants $7000 for it.
My
> wife was going to let me do it, until she caught me looking at pictures of
> it. After making several disguested noises, she informed me that she
hates
> Rabbits and VW trucks. We are working on 14 years of marriage, and I had
no
> idea... Go figure. Anyway, knowing that I would probably have to spend
10K
> - 12K and many hours to DIY a truck when I could have bought one as nice
as
> Pauls for 7k spoiled those plans, so it is off to the motorcycle races for
> me.
>
> damon
>
> I put a picture of my donor here
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/suzukileft.jpg
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is that motor the A89 or one size smaller? I would question the ability of
the bike to do more than 45mph and still make it. A full fairing would help
a lot. I have a 50 mile range on my motorcycle but that is doing 25mph. I
also have 260 lbs of batteries. I had a 275 amp controller but upgraded to
400 amps and it seems that I just have less range and not much more
performance. If you could get 150 pounds or a little more of the NiZns that
would give you a comfort margin. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 7:13 PM
Subject: New EV Project
> Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one of the
> kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
>
> I just brought home the donor vehicle today. It is a 1974 Suzuki GT250.
It
> has less then 5000 miles on it, and is in decent shape. There is some
rust
> on some of the chrome, some scratches on some of the paint, the lights
don't
> seem to work, and the front brake sticks. It seems to have a nice strong
> frame and be in sound shape other then that. It even has the original
> tires. I gave the kids some rides up and down the street, but the
> carberauter seems to need adjusting, and it is noisy, and stinky, so
rather
> then run the gas all the way out like I was planning, I think I will just
> drain the tank and tear into it.
>
> The basic plan is this. ADC 6.7 inch motor. The main reason I chose
this,
> is because I was able to get it for $125. John Wayland has a bunch he is
> selling at that price. The controller is a Curtis 1204 36-48V 275A.
> Batteries are still undetermined, but I have 6 Hawker GP13s that I am
going
> to use to test with after I get it assembled before I make my final
> batteries decision. I want to build this to do a fairly long commute, 25
> miles one way, mostly freeway, and I want to see what kind of WH/Mile I
end
> up with before commiting to batteris. Right now I am thinking that 4
Group
> 31 Optimas are the most likely choice. I would love to do Evercells, but
> we'll see when anyone can actually get their hands on some. I am also
still
> considering NiCads. If I go with AGM's I will probably use a modular
> charger made up of 4 of the Toshiba Laptop chargers. After the thread
> started about these being great for charging AGM's I realized I had a
couple
> laying around. I have been playing with them on my Hawkers and they
really
> do well. I actually have two different versions, one rated at 2 amps and
> one rated at 2.7 amps. John and I hooked one up to one of my Hawkers and
> measured it pumping in over 4 amps and it didn't seem to be breaking much
of
> a sweat, it did taper down after that.
>
> I would rather be doing a car then a motorcycle, but everything about
doing
> a motorcycle costs less, and around here motorcycles get HOV access but
> electric cars don't. Also with the low budget I can buid a motorcycle,
and
> won't have to get rid of my Honda Insight, so I can have both an EV and
> Hybrid. If I were doing a car, I would have to sell the Insight.
>
> I would have loved doing a small truck. The problem is I was seriously
> considering buying Paul G (Neon)s VW truck. He only wants $7000 for it.
My
> wife was going to let me do it, until she caught me looking at pictures of
> it. After making several disguested noises, she informed me that she
hates
> Rabbits and VW trucks. We are working on 14 years of marriage, and I had
no
> idea... Go figure. Anyway, knowing that I would probably have to spend
10K
> - 12K and many hours to DIY a truck when I could have bought one as nice
as
> Pauls for 7k spoiled those plans, so it is off to the motorcycle races for
> me.
>
> damon
>
> I put a picture of my donor here
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/suzukileft.jpg
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He's right I am in San Francisco. If you would like to make a copy of my
full fairing feel free to borrow it. To make a glass copy. I haven't
installed it on my Lectra. I also haven't changed my gears to go 60 yet.
When I do I want to try to make a motorcycle distance record. Lawrence
Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: New EV Project
> No way are you going to be able to fit enough batteries on a GT250 to go
> 25 miles at freeway speed.
>
> Not unless you can afford LIons.
>
> Well maybe if it is seriously streamlined.
>
> On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 20:13, damon henry wrote:
> > Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one of
the
> > kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
> >
> > I just brought home the donor vehicle today. It is a 1974 Suzuki GT250.
It
> > has less then 5000 miles on it, and is in decent shape. There is some
rust
> > on some of the chrome, some scratches on some of the paint, the lights
don't
> > seem to work, and the front brake sticks. It seems to have a nice
strong
> > frame and be in sound shape other then that. It even has the original
> > tires. I gave the kids some rides up and down the street, but the
> > carberauter seems to need adjusting, and it is noisy, and stinky, so
rather
> > then run the gas all the way out like I was planning, I think I will
just
> > drain the tank and tear into it.
> >
> > The basic plan is this. ADC 6.7 inch motor. The main reason I chose
this,
> > is because I was able to get it for $125. John Wayland has a bunch he
is
> > selling at that price. The controller is a Curtis 1204 36-48V 275A.
> > Batteries are still undetermined, but I have 6 Hawker GP13s that I am
going
> > to use to test with after I get it assembled before I make my final
> > batteries decision. I want to build this to do a fairly long commute,
25
> > miles one way, mostly freeway, and I want to see what kind of WH/Mile I
end
> > up with before commiting to batteris. Right now I am thinking that 4
Group
> > 31 Optimas are the most likely choice. I would love to do Evercells,
but
> > we'll see when anyone can actually get their hands on some. I am also
still
> > considering NiCads. If I go with AGM's I will probably use a modular
> > charger made up of 4 of the Toshiba Laptop chargers. After the thread
> > started about these being great for charging AGM's I realized I had a
couple
> > laying around. I have been playing with them on my Hawkers and they
really
> > do well. I actually have two different versions, one rated at 2 amps
and
> > one rated at 2.7 amps. John and I hooked one up to one of my Hawkers
and
> > measured it pumping in over 4 amps and it didn't seem to be breaking
much of
> > a sweat, it did taper down after that.
> >
> > I would rather be doing a car then a motorcycle, but everything about
doing
> > a motorcycle costs less, and around here motorcycles get HOV access but
> > electric cars don't. Also with the low budget I can buid a motorcycle,
and
> > won't have to get rid of my Honda Insight, so I can have both an EV and
> > Hybrid. If I were doing a car, I would have to sell the Insight.
> >
> > I would have loved doing a small truck. The problem is I was seriously
> > considering buying Paul G (Neon)s VW truck. He only wants $7000 for it.
My
> > wife was going to let me do it, until she caught me looking at pictures
of
> > it. After making several disguested noises, she informed me that she
hates
> > Rabbits and VW trucks. We are working on 14 years of marriage, and I
had no
> > idea... Go figure. Anyway, knowing that I would probably have to spend
10K
> > - 12K and many hours to DIY a truck when I could have bought one as nice
as
> > Pauls for 7k spoiled those plans, so it is off to the motorcycle races
for
> > me.
> >
> > damon
> >
> > I put a picture of my donor here
> > http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/suzukileft.jpg
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
> --
> EVDL
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe the Zap electric is just in time. Maybe they saw this comming.
Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:48 PM
Subject: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
> See
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RAV4_EV/message/3917
>
> -
> http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
>
<http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/images/rav4ev2
.jpg>
>
> Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
> Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003. Therefore, Toyota
> will no longer take orders for the RAV4 EV in the retail market in
> California. However, Toyota will honor all orders made on the RAV4 EV
> internet order system and finalized with a deposit at a dealership.
>
> Toyota wishes to offer a sincere "thank you" to our customers who
> purchased or leased a RAV4 EV. As always, customer satisfaction is
> our highest priority and we hope that your experience in owning a
> Toyota electric vehicle will continue to be positive. We understand
> you may be concerned about Toyota's commitment to your investment.
> Please be assured, Toyota will continue to ensure that dealers
> capable of servicing RAV4 EVs are located in each major metropolitan
> area in California throughout the 5-year powertrain warranty period
> of your vehicles.
>
> We also understand that many of our customers and supporters may have
> questions about the discontinuation of RAV4 EV production and sales.
> The linked Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) will provide answers to
> many of these questions. We plan to update this list periodically as
> new questions about RAV4 EV arise.
>
> Once again, thank you for your interest in the RAV4 EV.
> -
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please be sure to report back to the EV List of your EV
presentation / report, and the reactions.
I found gathering facts is fine. But in doing, and seeing
the reaction, I got valuable feedback to improve my data.
-Bruce
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 06:53:09PM +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I bought this car just to hack people like you off,' except he didn't
> say `hack.'
With all of the nose-in-the-air SUV bashing going on these days, I can
sympathize with him...
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=909864
HUFFINGTON, GROUP LAUNCH ANTI-SUV ADS
Conservative pundit Arianna Huffington and a
group calling itself The Detroit
Project have begun a TV ad campaign that
equates buying SUVs with being
unpatriotic. The ads suggest that driving
sport-utes increases American
dependence on foreign oil, which in turn helps
the states the Bush adminstration
is targeting for regime change. The ads, which
are scheduled to run starting
Sunday, will run in New York, L.A., Detroit and
Washington. "The goal of the campaign
is not to demonize people who drive SUVs,"
Huffington told Reuters. "We want to point out how our
driving habits at home are fueling oil money to
Saudi Arabia."
The final curtain call for the Detroit show.
by TCC Team 1/8/2003
TCC'S DAILY EDITION: Jan. 9, 2003
GM AND ARMY TEAM ON GREEN MILITARY
MACHINE
Army uniforms may not be the only things
"green" in
the Army arsenal in the not-too-distant future.
General Motors is teaming up
with the Pentagon to produce a prototype truck
designed to use
environmentally friendly technology on the
front line. The concept vehicle that
will be announced later today starts off with a
ruggedized Chevrolet Silverado
Heady-Duty pickup equipped with the automaker's
top off-road package. Under
the hood, it uses a Duramax diesel and an
Allison hybrid system. There's also a
fuel cell stack to provide auxiliary power.
While an eco-minded military might
seem an oxymoron at first, the Army has several
reasons why it wants to
explore the concept. For one thing, the
Pentagon figures it costs from $250 to
$400 per gallon to transport fuel to the front
line of battle. "So fuel economy
improvements are very important to the Army,"
explains GM technology
director Larry Burns. The hybrid system
recaptures energy normally wasted
during braking, cruising or coasting, and then
uses it to provide an extra "kick"
during acceleration, improving mileage. That
electricity will also be used to
electrolyze water - to break it into its basic
elements, hydrogen and oxygen.
The hydrogen is stored in a "solid" form as
part of a metal hydride. Later, when
the vehicle is parked, possibly for
surveillance or front-line control purposes, the
hydrogen will be used to power the fuel cell.
And since the fuel cell stack
produces water as waste, the process can be
endlessly repeated. Also, a fuel
cell operates more quietly than a generator,
and at a much lower temperature,
less likely to be seen by infrared detectors,
so the vehicle should prove more
stealthy. According to Burns, the military
envisions purchasing 30,000 such
vehicles by decade's end, and GM hopes to win
the contract. �Paul A.
Eisenstein
Listen to publisher Paul Eisenstein on NPR�s
Fresh Air today �
checkwww.npr.org for local times!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am also doing a conversion of a motorcycle (Honda Rebel 250). Let me
share a few gotcha's I learned, though have not tested. I looked at the
Evercel MB15-12-8s for a 160V 60Amp setup, but they have a 0.06 Ohm
internal resistance (which I am told will seriously limit their performance
and could damage them under heavy acceleration). I really liked their
smaller weight and size for the same amp hours though. So I am looking a
SVR-14's or smaller Hawkers, if I can make them fit. With frame
adjustments required.
Without a full fairing, your air resistance is higher then many cars. So
going 60 mph is a heavy load on the range. I am only looking to do 45 and
that seems to be still a stretch. Gearing is also recommended for over
30-35. Hard to find a transmission for a motorcycle, as most are built
into an engine casing.
I will try to post details on my web page so we can share the process. I
look forward to hearing your progress.
Gordon
If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are history.
At 11:35 PM 1/10/2003, you wrote:
I don't believe it will be easy, but I do believe I could do it with
Evercells and perhaps some other batteries, although Evercells for me are
still unproven and unattainable. That is why I am going to build the bike
first then chose batteries.
I do have backup plans. There is a public charging station I could swing
by at about the halfway point. This would be a bit out of the way and
would require me to get a charger that can do big amps as I wouldn't want
to be there all day. There are also other alternate routes that aren't all
freeway. My first choice is to use the freeway (which of course doesn't
always mean freeway speeds) and adjust from there.
I really don't know what I will be able to do until after I see what it
takes to move the bike. I haven't seen many examples of EV motorcycles to
compare to, but the ones I have seen have not met my range and speed
requirements and I know there is a reason why they have not, but I'm
willing to give it a go. If it is apparent that there is no way I will
get the range I want, then I will get a few more Hawkers and keep it a
short range bike.
I've talked this project over with John Wayland a bunch, and he seems
confident we can get the range out of it. I am a bit skeptical, but do
believe that it will work with either Evercells or Saft Nicads, and could
possibly work with the Group 31 Optimas. As far as getting enough
batteries on, I can think of lots of creative ways to mount batteries on
it, so my only real concern is weight.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Folks:
> Thank you so much for all your assistance and ideas for the EV
> presentation to the foundation people.
> It all boils down to a pretty simple message: educating the public.
> Hopefully we can get some projects funded for the EAA as that other
> organization has fallen over to the dark side.
>[SNIP]
Hello Marvin.
I'm in Toronto, Canada. I am impressed to hear of various EV
get-togethers in the US. Anything from drag races to just meets in a
park.
There's almost nothing like that happening here *yet*...
So just to add an item to your list for public education? Very
public displays of EV users. Scoots, power-assist bikes, trikes, cars,
buses and boats... whatever. A show of force.
For example, on the last Friday of EVery month, the cyclists gather
for "Critical Path".
http://criticalmasshub.com/main.html
This spring, 2003, our EVAC (Electric Vehicle Assoc.of Canada) has
their annual (trade-oriented) conference here in Toronto. I'm hoping
to piggyback something like a more informal get-together for EV'ers in
Toronto at the same time. When I get the dates for the EVAC
conference, I'll drop flyers off with the local bike/scooter shops
that're selling electrics, drop msgs in online forums, mail local
groups, etc. Not hard to do. Objective of a get-together would be
just to get noticed. Exposure. Educate the public, as you say.
Cheers
Lock
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
>
<http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/images/rav4ev2
.jpg>
>
> Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
> Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003. Therefore, Toyota
> will no longer take orders for the RAV4 EV in the retail market in
> California. However, Toyota will honor all orders made on the RAV4 EV
> internet order system and finalized with a deposit at a dealership.
>
Hi EVerybody;
Now we're all together. I mean the auto manufacturers, the others must
have leaned on Toyota, get them in line, QUICK! Before the EV thing is out
of the bag. We sure as hell don't want to have lines of people that want an
EV. Didn't Toyota have a waiting list for this thing? Like GM did with the
EV-1. Now they can diss EV's Say nobody wants them. Bettya General Murders
destroyed the Waiting List, too, saying that it, like the car, didn't exist.
EVen if they sold the car at a loss, I woukld thing the poz publicity ;"
SEE, were doing something to clean up the air" would be good for the bottom
line. A cleaver ad campeign, like the old VW ads, you older guyz remember
those?' Nobody's Perfect" Showing a VW with a flat tire. "What if it poops
out in Paduka?" showing a Beetle , Horrors! Being TOWED. This one was
touting that they could fix it, EVerywhere, even in Alaska. Cute ad, I
remember it all these years later. I can see an EV takeoff; "What if it runs
out of Juice in Cut Bank? Electricity has been here a long time, already,
cut over to the Juice Bar. A "gas Station" with dump charging facilities,
Bla Bla Bla. plays on words, to show that plugging in needent be a problem.
Hell! There MUST be a Starbux or Dunkin' Donuts neer by?
We hava lot of guyz right here for the ad campeign, if needed.Oh go
ahead, mine was not that great. Ad to it! Lee, John,Alan...We're on our own,
now. With the big Guyz bowing out. Mayube ATT of Korea can get the Parade
off the ground? That's a Mini van EV "Gofur " car that turns up at shows.
But it's a One Off, by the used Daiwoo guys that built it. I guess the
factory they were gunna build in CA never got started?? It was mentioned in
these pages. Like Popular Mechanics Cover story about a Titanic replica
cruise ship, that woulda been launched by now. Nostalgic folks could cruise
in, and with style on a 4 stacker. But Diseasel power smokin' it up through
those picturesque stacks. The Aquitania closed the 4 stack era about 1950,
the last time.
Starting to drift OT a bit. If I had any wonderful pearls of wisdom, I
would say it. Just damn disapointing that another car builder bailed out on
us. I can see guys doing one off conversions, custom built to customers
demands, to keep EV's out there, as were doing. A Car with a 100 plus mile
range at hiway speeds would appeal to the upper masses. Our job to get the
Evercells or whatEVer out in, our stuff, test them out. If I were EVercell,
I would be flasttered at the interest shown by the EV community. Wow! Look
at all my test pilots, willing tio Pay for the privlidge!! Be almost giving
the batteries away, for real world experiance they couldn't buy. Evercell?
Got yur ears on, I'll give ya my shipping address, oh! No I'll run up and
pick a pack, as I'm in YOUR time zone. Leave them on the loading dock<g>!
I'll be there when I get there!Thanks!
> Toyota wishes to offer a sincere "thank you" to our customers who
> purchased or leased a RAV4 EV. As always, customer satisfaction is
> our highest priority and we hope that your experience in owning a
> Toyota electric vehicle will continue to be positive.
Yeah! Pun intended?
We understand
> you may be concerned about Toyota's commitment to your investment.
> Please be assured, Toyota will continue to ensure that dealers
> capable of servicing RAV4 EVs are located in each major metropolitan
> area in California throughout the 5-year powertrain warranty period
> of your vehicles.
> Then yur on yur own! Good luck, although Toyotas' quality stuff dept may
show through. Car may run for YEARS with no problems, Endeering the guy that
own's it to EV's "As the Man that Owns One" the old Packard ad. God I'm
showing my age here, but good stuff comes around agauin.
> We also understand that many of our customers and supporters may have
> questions about the discontinuation of RAV4 EV production and sales.
> The linked Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) will provide answers to
> many of these questions. We plan to update this list periodically as
> new questions about RAV4 EV arise.
>
Like I love my EV how could ya do this to me?
> Once again, thank you for your interest in the RAV4 EV.
> -
>" Now GO away! Go out and look at our SBT's= Slow Boxy Things, I mean SUV's
Clutter up the roads with everybody else" Freely translated.
My 6 ohms worth
Seeya
Bob.....Back on the road electrically, soon, Raptur's fixed, blown
Cap.charging resister!Overnite repairs from DCP. Now THAT'S customer
service!
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003.
Wow - they didn't take 'em long. They compare their marketing to the
Prius but leave out the minor detail that the Prius is available in all
50 states, not just one. Lets see... 5 RAV4-EVs sold per week (straight
from Toyota's web site, above) per state x 50 states = 250 sold per week
x 24 weeks = 6000 they could have sold in the past 6 months if they had
opened it up to all. And then more people might have seen them and
gotten interested...
Bummer.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Since the possibility of getting Evercel MB80's in a reasonable amount
of time has gone to near 0, I decided to figure out exactly WHAT will
fit in a Sparrows battery compartments.
...
Can you say depressed boys and girls? I knew you could....
I know the idea of squeezing in "just one more YT" went around a bit on
the list a while back and the bottom line was there just wasn't any
room. Did you look at using 2 of the 6-volt versions as could squeeze
into smaller spaces? I know they tend to cost almost as much as the
12-volt version but a few are still around. Ignore me if this was
already discussed and eliminated.
Or if all else fails, just turn your heaters way up, run the batteries
at 120 degrees and plan to replace them every 6 months...
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Night before last I went out to the garage- yes I'm still in that, "just
going out to the garage to look at our EV fleet", stage- and noticed that
the TAL charger had shut down, no error light, one green on (1/4 charge).
I pulled the paddle and stuck it back in the charger, then stuck in the car.
Charger started up fine.
Went back out later and, same thing, charger off with three greens on (3/4
charge).
Anybody else experience this?
CFCI is supposed to come out Monday.
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Jan 2003 at 0:41, Alan Batie wrote:
> With all of the nose-in-the-air SUV bashing going on these days, I can
> sympathize with him...
I think we need to be a little careful of demonizing these vehicles. The US
has quite enough polarizing issues already. It seems as if more and more we
are drawing lines in the sand. If one were suspicious he might conclude
that at some level this might be a "divide and conquer" stategy.
I think that a lot of people drive vehicles that consume more resources than
necessary or desirable (and also take up more space and are harder to drive
and park) only because advertising has convinced them that they need or want
such vehicles.
The parking lot where I work probably has fewer SUVs than most (owing to
both the prevailing culture and the salaries), but of the 5 who do have
them, only one ever carries anything large in it. The other 4 people could
probably just as well drive cars. One bought an SUV because she "likes to
see better." The remaining 3 don't seem to know why they bought them.
Those who drive SUVs need to gain an understanding of their responsibility.
A person who bought an SUV to p**s someone off is a hazard. He's apt to
drive aggressively, and his heavy vehicle becomes a weapon. IMO, that man
should lose his driver's license, though I'll be darned if I can think of a
way to make it happen.
For those of us who drive small cars, including light EVs, large vehicles
that don't absorb their share of collision energy are a hazard. So are the
careless, angry people driving them!
If we're talking about a tradesman's van or an 18-wheeler loaded for
delivery, that's one thing; these vehicles can't readily fulfill their
mission unless they're big and heavy (though all the European freight trucks
I've seen appeared smaller to me; maybe they can be because Europe has a
much better rail system). Their size provides significant benefit to
society as a whole.
But when a person chooses an oversized vehicle as a daily commuter, and
doesn't really need all that extra space, that person increases the danger
to us with no real practical benefit for society. Quite the opposite.
First, this person is using more than his share of fuel and contributing
more than his share of grime to the atmosphere. Yet the only place he pays
more for this is in the minimal taxes on gasoline.
Second, in a collision this vehicle will do more damage and cost society in
property damage, lives, and dollars. This includes dollars to provide care
for those injured. This may come out of taxes for a few, but in other cases
it comes out of our insurance payment. Again, in most cases the driver
doesn't bear a proprotionate share of the cost.
Excessive vehicle's size is a burden on society.
So, I believe that the answer to this controversy is not to ban SUVs, which
is probably impossible anyway. Nor should we demonize them. Instead, let's
ask those who choose them pay their fair share of the quantifiable costs to
society. I propose the following taxes to be paid on every vehicle (not
just SUVs):
1. A purchase tax based on the cost to society of its manufacture. This
would include environmental damage in the assembly and disposal of the
vehicle, and the use of raw materials. (To be fair, we should also make the
nearly forgotten gas-guzzler tax apply to trucks.)
2. A carbon tax based on fuel usage as determined by EPA rating. This will
obviously be low for EVs.
3. A road and injury tax based on weight. This could be a problem for EVs,
but perhaps an EV credit could be provided.
The first tax would be paid at purchase, both new and used (yes, I know this
is double-dipping, but so are sales taxes).
The second and third taxes would be paid IN CASH when the license is issued
and renewed, and clearly enumerated in a statement so the taxpayer would
know exactly why his bill was so high and what he could do to reduce it.
This scheme isn't entirely unprecedented, even in the US. Many states
already levy yearly use taxes based on the book value of the vehicle. (And,
I have to admit, the taxes are widely hated. I know, because I lived in
such a state for a while.)
Here's where it gets interesting (and challenging). These taxes would be
adjusted according to the benefit society derives from each vehicle. For
example, if you drove a big van but were an electrician, you would get a tax
credit. UPS would get credits for their trucks. If you used your Excursion
to transport disabled kids to a supervised workshop, you might get an even
bigger credit (but only if you did it frequently enough -- once a year
wouldn't qualify). If you were an office worker with no apparent socially
redeeming use for your Suburban, you'd pay the full tax.
I know there are lots of flaws in this scheme, not the least of which is the
huge cost for implementation and the difficulty of determining how people
really use their vehicles. But it's a beginning, and I hope others can help
flesh it out.
I also know the chances for passage of such taxes are vanishingly small
under the current administration. But we can still think about it for some
distant future when a more progressive administration might be in charge,
no?
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switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
Or if all else fails, just turn your heaters way up, run the
batteries at 120 degrees and plan to replace them every 6 months...
I ran Optimas at 120 F for years, I don't believe that you'll be
hurting them much at that temperature. I think that's what Alan
Cocconi ran his at in his first Honda.
Did you know that a secondary water heater thermostat turned all the
way down happens to be close to 120 deg F? At least the one I bought
worked that way. It's nice because it's cheap and can take the load
of any battery heater.
HTH,
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a letter I sent Tom and Ray.
Hello Tom and Ray. I drive an electric car around San Francisco. I also
drive it from San Francisco to Berkeley maybe to San Mateo. This is without
charging away from home. I can drive to San Jose if I charge it there. My
car was made for long range and looks like a normal car. I saw an electric
car that might have helped the gentleman from Denver. He was having trouble
with his SUV getting bad mileage on short trips. In California one can buy
an NEV, a two seater, for 3700 bucks. A 4 seat version is 4500. The things
are about a penny a mile to run and have virtually no maintainance needs
except watering the batteries, brakes and tires. (Don't water the brakes and
tires. That would be bad.) You can also get jeep style doors to protect you
from the cold. It seems that at some point the greed factor will kick in
when people see that they are ruining their expensive cars and suvs on the
short trips and that for around town the convience, easy parking and cost
would be attractive. What it costs to buy these things is less over a few
years than the maintance on these expensive vehicles not to mention the
energy costs. I had thought you guys in the east coast tech. center would
know of these nifty little vehicles and might have something to say about
them. Maybe even recommend them as an alternative to owning a second car.
Here are some urls of some electric cars that you might find interesting.
Lawrence Rhodes....
http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/tzero_home.htm (fast car)
http://www.gemcar.com The 3700 dollar NEV
http://www.portev.org/solectria/ho/evphoto.htm Car bought from Solectria a
firm near you. They made a car go 400 miles on one charge. At the bottom
of the page see hundreds of cars made by folks just like you who didn't want
to use gas as much.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/ Hundreds of electric cars including race
cars.
Interesting fellow and makes a fast conversion vehicle
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/036.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/035.html
http://www.zapworld.com/news/ces010603.htm New ZAP electric car and battery
technology allowing a vehicle to attain 200 mile range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear EV friends,
I am interested in moving on to other projects involving more building and less
selling, and would therefore like to pass my EV business onto another EV
enthusiast. This is a turnkey online EV business which has been operating
profitably since 1996. If you have thought about starting an EV business this
will save you a lot of time and trouble. Dun and Bradstreet listed, perfect
credit history, all accounts paid in full, no debts, some inventory. Revenue
history available. Best reasonable offer accepted.
Please contact Gary Flo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.innevations.com
802-425-7383
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:14 PM 1/11/2003 -0500, Jim Coate wrote:
I know the idea of squeezing in "just one more YT" went around a bit on
the list a while back and the bottom line was there just wasn't any
room. Did you look at using 2 of the 6-volt versions as could squeeze
into smaller spaces? I know they tend to cost almost as much as the
12-volt version but a few are still around. Ignore me if this was already
discussed and eliminated.
Not a chance. I did verify experimentally today that MB-80's just Will Not
Fit in a Sparrow. The front battery compartment comes out to about 1/2"
(maybe a bit more) too short.
(I cut some boards to be MB80 size, and tried to fit them in. Not a chance.)
Or if all else fails, just turn your heaters way up, run the batteries at
120 degrees and plan to replace them every 6 months...
I'm seriously considering that.
Think it'll give me an extra 10% capacity?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:59 PM 1/11/2003 -0800, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
At 01:14 PM 1/11/2003 -0500, Jim Coate wrote:
Or if all else fails, just turn your heaters way up, run the batteries at
120 degrees and plan to replace them every 6 months...
I'm seriously considering that.
Think it'll give me an extra 10% capacity?
Well, I've been doing some experimenting. I made some battery heater pads
using that self-regulating heat tape. These will keep the batteries around
60deg F. Since I really want warmer than that, I tried running the heat
tape on 170VDC instead of 120VAC. I think it was running a bit over 100
deg F. Of course I'm using it way out of spec....
Now, is there a chance that keeping the batteries that hot will bring
their capacity back up near full? I probably need about 10% more than they
can deliver when at 60 deg F.
I'm still not sure if I will bother though. Running the warmers off the
pack makes charging more awkward. And may not buy me enough time to be
worth the effort.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
