EV Digest 2817
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Batteries
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Lithium battery monitoring? ...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Fiero range and Battery chargers
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Fiero range and Battery chargers
by "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: air conditioning efficiency & motor requirements
by "Bryan Avery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fiero range and Battery chargers
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Anderson connector question
by "Bryan Avery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) TdS Report #59: Photos - Eskimobile, #52
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: air conditioning efficiency & motor requirements
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lighest rear wheel drive
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Lighest rear wheel drive
by "Tom Guillaume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) TdS Report #60: Photos - REVolutionride.org, #53
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Lighest rear wheel drive
by gail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) TdS Report #61: Photos - Woodstock, #56
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: E-shredder (was Electric Push mower)
by gail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) TdS Report #62: Photos - S&S Autosports Toyota Prius, #70
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Batteries
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) TdS Report #63: Photos - SEVRX, #76
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Anderson connector crimp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) TdS Report #64: Photos - Sunpacer, #92
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Anderson connector question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) were these LiIons blown? (Re: TdS Report #63:)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Lithium battery monitoring
by "Michael Hills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) TdS Report #65: Photos - eGO Scooters
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) RE: were these LiIons blown? (Re: TdS Report #63:)
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: were these LiIons blown? (Re: TdS Report #63:)
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) TdS Report #66: Photos - DiamlerChrysler GEM
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
> Well, the Zilla controllers are good, and they do allow many
> adjustments as you say, but they are still a standard "buck"
> configuration and so not boost.
>
> What this means is that the motor voltage will always be lower than
> the battery voltage. It is true of all these buck controllers that
> the motor current can be higher than the battery current. But they do
> not have the ability to "boost" voltage to the motor.
Well, dang it. I could swear someone posted about a Zilla running in
boost mode.
I guess that means the Zilla controllers are simply the best "normal"
controllers available, not as major an advance as I thought. I can live
with that. :-) Getting back to the question of the 120 V 914, having
1000 motor amps available while keeping your battery amps at 400-500
should still help a lot in the lunge department.
If anyone is contemplating a new controller, I highly recommend checking
out Otmar's Zilla pages.
http://cafeelectric.com/products/zilla/index.html Also look through the
Zilla manual http://cafeelectric.com/products/zilla/zillamanual.html to
fully appreciate what this controller can do. T-Rex and Raptor, step
aside.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please email it to me off-list, I'll post it on my site
Victor
Rich Rudman wrote:
>
>
> Where do I send the JPG for posting???
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just talked to Jim Wierick (1984 Fiero with 20 STM-180 NiCds).
He drove 40 miles yesterday (mostly freeway at 70 MPH).
I suspect this is very good range for that speed.
He's still using a bad boy charger with a variac but he's interested
in buying something better.
I've been trying to get him to buy Rich's charger, but he's hesitant to
spend
the money hoping to get a used Zivan or something similar for <$500.
He claims he can't find much info on the Zivan capabilities (like output
voltage, constant current, constant voltage etc.)
If anybody has something in electronic format please send it my way.
Thanks,
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod,
Check out Gary Flo's web page: http://www.innevations.com/chargers.html
He has photos of spec sheets for the Zivan chargers.
Ralph
Rod Hower writes:
>
>
> I just talked to Jim Wierick (1984 Fiero with 20 STM-180 NiCds).
> He drove 40 miles yesterday (mostly freeway at 70 MPH).
> I suspect this is very good range for that speed.
> He's still using a bad boy charger with a variac but he's interested
> in buying something better.
> I've been trying to get him to buy Rich's charger, but he's hesitant to
> spend
> the money hoping to get a used Zivan or something similar for <$500.
> He claims he can't find much info on the Zivan capabilities (like output
> voltage, constant current, constant voltage etc.)
> If anybody has something in electronic format please send it my way.
> Thanks,
> Rod
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The electric A/C compressor Sanden describes on their site looks pretty
interesting, but last I checked they would only sell them to OEM's
because the controller is apparently extremely finicky and they don't
want to walk you through getting it working correctly unless you are
going to be buying them in large quantities. That was the impression I
got at least. This is the only electric compressor I have run across so
far.
Anyone have any idea how much more efficient scroll compressors
generally are compared to a standard compressor? It seems that scroll
compressors are starting to show up in some new cars. I ran across a
reference to several of Ford's vehicles using them starting with 2001 &
2002 model years. At this point, I'm not sure if the gain would really
be worth the work (and added cost) to get a hold of one of these.
-Bryan Avery
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:23 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: air conditioning efficiency & motor requirements
>
> http://www.sanden.com/
>
> Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zivan specs and info:
http://www.zapiinc.com/chargers.html
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/search.php?concatenation=AND&case_sensitive=0&Search=search&stringtsf=zivan&search.x=40&search.y=9
Also, Greg McCrae at ElCon Electric Conversions is official U.S. Zivan
dealer.
ElCon does not have a website.
ElCon Electric Conversions
215 14th Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
Greg McCrae
916-441-4161 ph
916-444-8190 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Fiero range and Battery chargers
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:25:09 -0400
I just talked to Jim Wierick (1984 Fiero with 20 STM-180 NiCds).
He drove 40 miles yesterday (mostly freeway at 70 MPH).
I suspect this is very good range for that speed.
He's still using a bad boy charger with a variac but he's interested
in buying something better.
I've been trying to get him to buy Rich's charger, but he's hesitant to
spend
the money hoping to get a used Zivan or something similar for <$500.
He claims he can't find much info on the Zivan capabilities (like output
voltage, constant current, constant voltage etc.)
If anybody has something in electronic format please send it my way.
Thanks,
Rod
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Under what circumstance (if any) could the batteries actually see the
full 280A load from the inverter? If the current draw never really
exceeds 150A, it would actually be feasible to run two AC systems
together of a pack of the 90Ah li-ions (260ft/lb & 212HP - sounds like
fun!) off. I know, you're going to say, "why would you need more power
than the single motor." And there's really no good reason except to
prove that it can be done I guess. With the smaller size of the li-ion
pack, maybe I could even have room to squeeze in another inverter and
motor and still keep a fair amount of my trunk space. Unfortunately, my
bank account doesn't look like it can take the extra $6K it would cost
to do this. Tempting idea though. :-)
-Bryan Avery
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:57 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Anderson connector question
>
> Chris,
>
> 175A is more than enough, as well as 1/0 cable is overkill.
>
> Gauge 4 is adequate, 2 is conservatively oversized.
> 1 is well oversized, 1/0 you never take advantage of.
>
> Your battery current will not exceed 150A or so (with >300V pack).
> 280A is protection for inverter, but it draws less than that.
>
> Victor
>
> Chris Weaver wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I've seen Anderson SBX350 connectors called out in a number of
> > designs. But most of those designs are for DC systems that must
pull a
> > good bit more than 350 Amps. Do these connectors do well above
rated
> > current? The reason I ask is that I'm doing an AC system, so
battery
> > current is limited at 288 Amps. I'd like to use 1/0 cable (even
that is
> > probably excessive), but only the SBX175 lists 1/0 as a valid wire
> > size. Should I go with SBX350 and figure out how to crimp to a 1/0
> cable,
> > or go with SBX175 and run the connector at more than spec?
> >
> > I won't hold anyone liable for an answer, just looking for some
> guidance.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #59: Photos - Eskimobile, #52
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_022.html
Eskimobile, #52
A patriotic paint job, showing the flag.
The wooden rack contain holds jars of various seeds that produce vegetable
oils. The oils can then be turned into biodiesel.
On display in Washington.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last quoted price I saw from Sanden regarding there electric compressor
and controller was around $3500. The only reason I'm interested in this
is that my A/C in my U.S. Electricar Prizm is not working and I believe
I have a problem with the brushless DC motor controller.
The system in the Prizm is a Fisher Technologies brushless motor
controller going to a Fisher motor with a Sanden compressor. The Fisher
website is at
http://www.fisherelectric.com/index.html
They have picture in their "Electric Vehicle Technology" section of an
electric compressor. It has been slow going trying to get information
out of them regarding either replacing or repairing my motor controller.
It seems that these manufactures are more interested in OEM deals. It's
funny that they don't realize that many of us have jobs in related
industries and that when it comes times in our jobs to look at various
manufacturers we will remember the poor customer relations.
Alex Karahalios
On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 02:02 PM, Bryan Avery wrote:
The electric A/C compressor Sanden describes on their site looks pretty
interesting, but last I checked they would only sell them to OEM's
because the controller is apparently extremely finicky and they don't
want to walk you through getting it working correctly unless you are
going to be buying them in large quantities. That was the impression I
got at least. This is the only electric compressor I have run across
so
far.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I miss my '77 Corolla. It was the 'Deluxe' 2-door sedan with the 1600 cc
engine. 88 hp doesn't sound like much, but at 2,005 pounds, it moved
just fine and hit 110 mph with the 3-speed automatic! If it had air
conditioning, I probably never would have gotten rid of it.
The Corollas of that era weight from 1,815 pounds (1200 2-door sedan)
to 2,065 pounds (1600 wagon.) There are still people who race them,
so suspension bits and such should be available, and since they were built
before "cab forward" cars, there's plenty of space in the engine
compartment. (They were RWD also.) They were offered with 3 rear
axle ratios, and choice of 4- or 5-speed synchromesh transmissions, or
2- (!) or 3-speed automatics.
http://www.netwiz.net/~tcar/cinfo.html
Tim
-----------
From : "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject : Re: Lighest rear wheel drive
Date : Wed, 28 May 2003 14:34:29 -0400
For a light rear drive car, look back 30+ years. Late 60s - early 70s small
cars of all kinds. A couple that stand out in my memory are the Fiat 850
Spyder and Datsun 510. The Fiat was outrageously light (1300 lb?) and
geared very low. With that tiny 850cc engine it really could scoot! The
Datsun 510 was a favorite of the SCCA rally drivers for many years, so it'll
probably be tough to find one.
There are many other small cars from this era, typically under 1800 lb --
early Toyota Corollas I think were rear drive; late 60s Opel Kadetts weighed
about 1500 lb.
Of course you'll probably have a restoration job to do, and parts hassles
with many of them, and the collision protection is far inferior to today's
small cars. Whether these matter depends on your goals, I guess.
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I'm almost 6'4", great legroom but my head almost touched the roof.
Wow, I get the impression from reading this and other threads that all ev
enthusiasts are very tall, wide and musical. Are there any tin eared,
short, skinny ev drivers? Or is that politically incorrect ;-)
Tom Guillaume
Chardon Ohio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #60: Photos - REVolutionride.org, #53
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_023.html
REVolutionride.org, #53
Parking for at the Trenton Festival.
The control electronics for driving the electric motor is under a clear cover.
The wiring is super-neat, color-coded, and easy to understand. The green box
on the left is the battery charger. The batteries are in welded metal boxes
under the bench seats.
The DC motor drives the rear-wheel transaxle on this vehicle.
The electric wiring and mechanics are neat and easy to get at.
The work was supervised by an electrician, but executed by the high school
students. An excellent example of how these things should be done, to my mind.
Display boards explain the Green Energy Project and the chemistry of making
biodiesel.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
I am 5'7", 122 pounds and have done nothing musically since my mother
no longer made me take piano lessons, probably about 6th grade. I will
be driving an EV again soon, when my new batteries get here and our
local EV experts get some of my cars put back together. I am not tall,
wide nor musical so I may meet your specifications.
Gail
On Wed, 28 May 2003, Tom Guillaume wrote:
> >I'm almost 6'4", great legroom but my head almost touched the roof.
>
>
> Wow, I get the impression from reading this and other threads that all ev
> enthusiasts are very tall, wide and musical. Are there any tin eared,
> short, skinny ev drivers? Or is that politically incorrect ;-)
>
> Tom Guillaume
> Chardon Ohio
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #61: Photos - Woodstock, #56
, etc.
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_024.html
Woodstock, #56
The name Woodstock comes from the bright yellow paint job.
Or is that the other way around?
Team advisor Ken Wells tells the truck's story to a visitor of the Washington
Festival.
Every vehicle needs its mascot, but what is with those ears?
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_025.html
Zodiac, #7
A solar-powered vehicle of the type that competed in the first American Tour
de Sol in 1989.
The white faring on the right covers the continuously variable transmission.
The electric motor drives the forward cone, the rear cone driver the chain
drive, on the left, that connects to the wheel.
The support trailer hauls the car, tools, parts and displays and
acknowledges sponsors,
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you all for the information on electric shredders. I looked at one
for rent at Home Depot last weekend but the salesman said it would only
chop branches of an inch or so in diameter and I can cut those with my
pruning shears. Now that I know there are some shredders out there I will
watch for one that can do larger tree chunks. Otherwise the branches can
stay in the yard as landscaping.
Gail
On Mon, 26 May 2003, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I have a Mantis. I don't think it cost more than 200 dollars. Lawrence
> Rhodes
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 6:57 PM
> Subject: Re: E-shredder (was Electric Push mower)
>
>
> > On 24 May 2003 at 12:38, Thomas Shay wrote:
> >
> > > Who makes an electric shredder?
> >
> > I have a Flowtron, too, but I believe they're no longer made.
> >
> > Here's an electric chipper shredder that appears to be a high quality
> unit,
> > with a price to match (and then some):
> >
> > http://www.electricfencecompany.com/too-5101.html
> >
> > I've seen these advertised in Organic Gardening from time to time, but
> don't
> > really know much about them.
> >
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> > switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> > 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> > 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> > 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> > thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #62: Photos - S&S Autosports Toyota Prius, #70
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_026.html
S&S Autosports Toyota Prius, #70
Leaving the Trenton Festival, on the way to the Autocross ...
... where the car gets put through its paces.
Bob Strattan explains the hybrid technology to visitors at the Washington
Festival.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote at May 28, 2003 6:43 AM:
> > Your probable right Lee and as you say "for your first EV"
How about 15 8
> > volter's . Thats some where in between
>
> 8 volt batteries give you the worst of both worlds. Even LESS
> performance than 6 volt batteries and almost as much weight
(950 lbs
> give or take).
>
> Coupled to even a 600 amp controller they will die quickly. To
get any
> kind of life from these batteries maximum draw should be
limited to less
> than 300 amps. After a year or two you'd be lucky to get 200
amps.
>
> Range when new will be about 35 miles, after a year or two it
will be
> less than 20 miles (assuming he keeps the current down below
300 amps).
>
> Finally a set of 15 batteries will cost you as much or more as
a set of
> 20 6v batts.
>
> You end up with a lead sled with glacial performance and
batteries that
> die quickly even if you treat them right (two to three years
max).
> Hook them up to a 600 amp controller and frequently bury your
foot and
> you'll be lucky to get a year out of them.
>
> For an 8V performance example consider my truck.15 8 volt
batteries that
> were somewhere near the middle of their life and a total weight
of about
> 3200 lbs.
> 0-60 took about a minute and a half. This is while keeping
pack voltage
> above 105 volts (about 250 amp draw)
Geez, this is truly awful. I thought my car was slow winding up
through the gears (although not bad off the line). 96V Rabbit
with 6V floodeds, weight 2900-3000lbs, 1231C Curtis: takes about
25sec to get to 50mph. Haven't tried a timed run to 60mph, but
it's probably another 10-15sec. Of course, I've got the hammer
down between gear shifts, so probably about 385A through the
battery pack. At max 250A, yeah, too, it might be a minute or so
to 60mph for the Rabbit. I don't really have a problem with it
though - I use the car for what it was intended for: around town
usage and limited freeway. Try to stay off of uphill freeway
on-ramps and long freeway uphills.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #63: Photos - SEVRX, #76
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_027.html
SEVRX, #76
Ready for inspection in Burlington.
A sophisticated, student-built charger
manages the pack of 1600 Lithium-Ion cells.
A view from the rear.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gordon Niessen wrote:
>
> Other then the issue of slow creep of solder, I don't agree about crimping
> being better. If your connection gets so hot that it melts solder, there
> is something wrong. I would rather the connection break before the whole
> cable starts glowing. I have this problem on my electric scooter and
> credit the solder for saving the rest of the motor.
A good solder joint and a good crimp connection are both fine. The
problem is that soldering is harder to do, and so more likely to be done
wrong. And, when a solder joint fails, it is often dramatic!
When you solder a connector like the Anderson or a battery terminal, you
can get heating not from the solder joint, but from the connection
itself. For example, a loose battery terminal, or dirty Anderson
connector. With a soldered connection, the heat melts the solder,
causing more resistance, more heat, and you can have a "meltdown" with
molten metal flowing.
Also, you don't want to rely on solder for a mechanical connection. It
isn't very strong, and if you put pressure or tension on a soldered
joint, it can crack or "creep" over time until it comes out.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #64: Photos - Sunpacer, #92
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_028.html
Sunpacer, #92
This is Sunpacer's 11th appearance at the Tour de Sol.
Ready to rally!
The large flat panel is the solar panel that charges the batteries.
This shot a glimps under the solar panel that slopes down the back of the car.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bryan Avery wrote:
>
> Under what circumstance (if any) could the batteries actually see the
> full 280A load from the inverter?
Only if low voltage used and you demand 100 kW, so the current
must be high. If hi voltage pack used, the inverter hits motor
current limit far before 280A battery current limit.
> If the current draw never really
> exceeds 150A, it would actually be feasible to run two AC systems
> together of a pack of the 90Ah li-ions (260ft/lb & 212HP - sounds like
> fun!) off.
THat's what Cliff Rassweiler is doing.
> I know, you're going to say, "why would you need more power
> than the single motor." And there's really no good reason except to
> prove that it can be done I guess.
I won't ask this, it's the same as asking why one need HumVee.
Personal taste.
Yes, technically it's doable, and in fact being done, see www.ProEv.com
> With the smaller size of the li-ion
> pack, maybe I could even have room to squeeze in another inverter and
> motor and still keep a fair amount of my trunk space. Unfortunately, my
> bank account doesn't look like it can take the extra $6K it would cost
> to do this. Tempting idea though. :-)
I can wait.
BTW, I pay for systems in Euros, and unfortunately, these days
US dollar does not buy as many Euros as few month ago.
So the systems are no longer $6k, rather track EURO/USD ratio.
Victor
> -Bryan Avery
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:57 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Anderson connector question
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > 175A is more than enough, as well as 1/0 cable is overkill.
> >
> > Gauge 4 is adequate, 2 is conservatively oversized.
> > 1 is well oversized, 1/0 you never take advantage of.
> >
> > Your battery current will not exceed 150A or so (with >300V pack).
> > 280A is protection for inverter, but it draws less than that.
> >
> > Victor
> >
> > Chris Weaver wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > I've seen Anderson SBX350 connectors called out in a number of
> > > designs. But most of those designs are for DC systems that must
> pull a
> > > good bit more than 350 Amps. Do these connectors do well above
> rated
> > > current? The reason I ask is that I'm doing an AC system, so
> battery
> > > current is limited at 288 Amps. I'd like to use 1/0 cable (even
> that is
> > > probably excessive), but only the SBX175 lists 1/0 as a valid wire
> > > size. Should I go with SBX350 and figure out how to crimp to a 1/0
> > cable,
> > > or go with SBX175 and run the connector at more than spec?
> > >
> > > I won't hold anyone liable for an answer, just looking for some
> > guidance.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought I should jump in here and clarify the voltage ratings on our
solenoids. I've always assumed that the coil rating was the same as the
contact rating on the small Camdec style solenoids. To be sure I contacted
tech support at Trombetta which is the corporation that bought out Camdec.
Indeed the coil voltage is the same as the contact voltage. On the higher
voltage solenoids they adjust the gap but do not install magnetic blowouts.
For one thing there just isn't room. On larger contactors such as
Curtis/Albright you will find separate ratings for coil voltages and
contactor voltages. After looking at these particular products on our site I
realize they need further info. I usually spend some time every day updating
our site.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >>> 24 dollar Solenoid
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only
> >> good for about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic,
> >> or they have changed something inside to suppress arcing.
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
> > My guess is: 48 volts is the voltage rating is for the coil.
> > Not the contacts.
>
> It does say "24v coil".
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1600 LiIons I assume AA size. I'm positive, no per cell BMS
was used, likely large groups of cells were in parallel.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the pack which blew
(or was it the "sophisticated, student-built charger"?
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> TdS Report #63: Photos - SEVRX, #76
>
> Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
> http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_027.html
>
> SEVRX, #76
>
> Ready for inspection in Burlington.
>
> A sophisticated, student-built charger
> manages the pack of 1600 Lithium-Ion cells.
>
> A view from the rear.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's been a lot of talk about building load banks and possibly driving
around the block forever at low speed to break in these new Li-Ion
batteries.
It occured to me that since the PFC-20/50 can run off of DC with very little
modification, why not just split the pack of Li-Ions in half and shuttle a
charge back and forth. Charge one half off AC, then charge the second half
from the first half. You'll have to make sure you battery monitoring is set
up to shut down the PFC-20 when pack 1 is empty, but you'd need the same
circuit to turn off the load bank. Then finish charging the second pack off
of AC. Turn the PFC-20 around and repeat...
Rich, was a DC rated fuse on the input the only thing needed for the
PFC-20/50 to run off DC? Any reason you couldn't just give a recommended
part number for people to buy, or is there more to it?
One issue would be the initial state of charge. If the batteries arrive
mostly charged, you'd have to discharge at least half the pack in some other
way first. I suppose if you have another EV you could use the PFC-20 to
drain the Li-Ions into that battery pack. Why boil away good electrons if
you don't have to?
-Michael
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #65: Photos - eGO Scooters
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_029.html
eGO Scooters
These scooters where shown with two types of batteries: lead acid and
lithium-ion.
The batteries are kept under the foot support.
The visitors in Trenton showed a lot of interest.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, I think these guys were fine.
It was the Electrovaya Maya Lithium Polymer-powered Suzuki EV that burnt.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2003 9:17 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: were these LiIons blown? (Re: TdS Report #63:)
1600 LiIons I assume AA size. I'm positive, no per cell BMS
was used, likely large groups of cells were in parallel.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the pack which blew
(or was it the "sophisticated, student-built charger"?
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> TdS Report #63: Photos - SEVRX, #76
>
> Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
> http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_027.html
>
> SEVRX, #76
>
> Ready for inspection in Burlington.
>
> A sophisticated, student-built charger
> manages the pack of 1600 Lithium-Ion cells.
>
> A view from the rear.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1600 LiIons I assume AA size. I'm positive, no per cell BMS
was used, likely large groups of cells were in parallel.
I believe you are correct. I'm friends with Drew from the Clarkson
team and he spent some time showing me their BMS
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the pack which blew
(or was it the "sophisticated, student-built charger"?
this was not the car that had the fire, nor did the batteries "blow".
Their BMS used undersized/underheatsinked FETs which started popping
one by one once the first one went. As for the "sophisticated,
student-built charger," they were using a Zivan :-), although their
"sophisticated, student-built" BMS was pretty cool. My understanding
is that the idea behind their BMS was to carefully monitor current and
temp in each of seventy-something parallel strings of AA sized Lions
and to use a FET to turn off a string if it got too hot. Both charging
and discharging current passed through the BMS. They had a really cool
(aside from running windows) tablet PC setup in the dashboard which
interfaced with their controller, two Emeters, and the whole BMS. If
they get some EV sized Lions and put in some bigger FETs they will have
a really cool setup. my two amps worth
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #66: Photos - DiamlerChrysler GEM
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_030.html
DiamlerChrysler GEM
"Can I keep it, Mom?
Someday my feet will reach the pedals!"
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
