EV Digest 2816
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: OT - Insight Hybrids DONT like rocks in radiator at 100mph
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Price for a 120 mile range performance oriented car weighing2000 pounds
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Lithium battery monitoring? ...
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lithium battery monitoring? ...
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fwd from Bob Rice: Sundance Conversion?
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part three)
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Anderson connector crimp
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lighest rear wheel drive
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OT - Insight Hybrids DONT like rocks in radiator at 100mph
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Several small smart chargers
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Ford Escort Hybrid Conversion? Chevy Sprint available.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Batteries
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Lighest rear wheel drive
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Batteries
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Lithium battery monitoring? ...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Don't get peeved, get nEV'd
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've been following the Honda Insight lists for over two years and this is
the first rock in the radiator story I have heard. Hardly seems like a
trend. It's got to be a pretty lucky shot to get to the radiator. I just
turned over 38K on my Insight and haven't collected in rocks. I've had mine
up to 110mph a couple of times. Starts to feel a little loose at those
speeds like there's not much rubber touching the ground anymore.
damon
From: "Steven S. Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: OT - Insight Hybrids DONT like rocks in radiator at 100mph
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 07:02:54 -0700
Well, I know this should be posted to some Insight group, (sorry )
but I am not sure it happened when I ran "Lil Sipper" up over 100
per' briefly coming home
on some nice roiling hills on I-5 south bound, north of Everett WA.
BUT arriving at work yesterday, green fluid was leaking out from the
front of her. I drove post-haste to the
local Honda Dealer. Hoping it was warrantee work. He called back
bout 1 pm to say
that a rock had hit the radiator. In chatting with service folks, I
suggested a screen. He even volunteered that Insights are prone to
picking up rocks. ( wish I had had THAT conversation on my pocket
digital recorder )j
Any way... any one else out there heard of such a thing. How about
a class action against Honda of America, for all the $600. radiator
replacement jobs ?? ( Just kidding )
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://slough1.home.mindspring.com/seva.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> 5.5 is almost twice the cd of the fairing I have. Seems to me that my
> fairing would just about double the range of that bike. Lawrence
> Rhodes......
Total drag is Cd times frontal area. The fairing could have a much lower
Cd, but still increase drag because it increases frontal area.
For example, in ultralight aircraft there is still a big debate over
which is better; an open-frame design with everything hanging out in the
wind but a low frontal area, or adding a body which increases big
frontal area but lowers Cd. There are winners with both designs.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> Does this mean I need to use a 16v contactor for 48v system and 24v
> contactor for 72v system?
Can you find, or trace out the schematic of the controller? We are
really just guessing, with no good information on what it presently has.
Your more recent posts make it sound like a simple resistor controller,
with no series/paralle switching; just several big resistors that are
switched in series with the motor to control speed.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=616&product_id=938
24v
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/mainpage.php?id=2&PHPSESSID=d57d43feccbf5b36
c238422286fee8c0 go to selinoids down the list for all selinoids and
contactors......
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> Quote from the webpage
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
>
> Home > Golf > Solenoids & Contactors > 48 volt coil
>
> Solenoid, 48 volt, 4 Terminal Long Housing - Item #SL1941
>
> Camdec 48 Volt DC Solenoid, Made in the U.S.A.
>
> Load Specs: 100 amps continuos inductive load, 125 amps continuos
resistive
> load, 200 amps intermittant inductive load, 250 amps intermittant
resistive
> load, 500 amp max inrush for .5 seconds
>
> Coil Specs: 28 Volts DC minimum pull in voltage, 1 Volt DC drop out
voltage,
> 160 to 204 ohms coil resistance, .26 amps coil winding current
>
> End quote.
>
> I fail to see the 24 Volt coil.
> Are we looking at the same page?
> The "product_id=938" is a 24 volt coil.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
>
>
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > >>> 24 dollar Solenoid
> >
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
> >
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> > >> Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only
> > >> good for about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic,
> > >> or they have changed something inside to suppress arcing.
> >
> > Joe Smalley wrote:
> > > My guess is: 48 volts is the voltage rating is for the coil.
> > > Not the contacts.
> >
> > It does say "24v coil".
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> > Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Roger Stockton wrote:
> >
> > Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> ...
> > Sounds like your present hookup is like this:
> >
> > Sorensen + o---------+----+----+---- ------+
> > nearest cell cell cell farthest cell
> > Sorensen - o---------+----+----+---- ------+
>
> No, I'm smarter than this :-)
>
> > Reconnect like this to force the current to divide more equally and the
> > voltage to be more uniform at all cells:
> >
> > +----+----+---- ------+---o Sorensen +
> > nearest cell cell cell farthest cell
> > Sorensen - o---------+----+----+---- ------+
>
> Good idea, but the cells are not connected as above.
>
> In a word, I have 4x24 matrix and + and - wiring
> runs diagonally connecting 1, 3, 5, 7, ... 5, 3, 1
> minuses and pluses. Then separate groups of those
> combined minuses and pluses are interconnected by
> jumpers from one end, and middles of that feeding
> jumpers are connected to the Sorensen.
>
> Hard to describe electrically. I'll let Rich describe
> it, he's seen it and has a photo of that shelf =8O
>
> Victor
Yea I call it Victor's 80,000 amp Flash builb!! God I hope they never
short!!!
Where do I send the JPG for posting???
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 10:03 PM 5/27/2003 -0700, Gary Graunke wrote:
> > It seems that to initialize an entire pack, we will need to make
> > some
> >special equipment, or get the BMS working and use regular charging.
>
> I'm planning on using my BMS. PC Boards come in tomorrow.
>
> >For
> >discharge cycles, I may have to drive around the block for 3 hours and 20
> >minutes. ;-) Seriously, after all the comments, I'm leaning toward
> >building
> >a massive homebew load, as several folks have done.
>
> Hmm, maybe just 10 or 20 standard 120v lightbulbs - being run at 160v or
> so.
> Wonder how long they would last? :-)
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
$14 4500 watt water heater elemets from Grainger.com come to mind. The
Hot tool box has 2 of them . I stuff 10 to 15Kw into them while testing
PFCs. I boil LOTs Of water.
The Windloader 50 acts as a programable DC load, and emulates a battery
pack. This does nice voltage cut off cycle tests on Optimas, and what
ever else is sitting in the drive way.
45 100 watt light builbs are a LOT of wiring !!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked up the reviews and information. .36 Cd and .69 sq. m. frontal
area. 2,580 pounds curb weight as an ICE. Most of the reviewers loved the
car but hated the engine. If your car is a turbo, you'll get quite a bit
for the turbo, as they're hard to find.
Tim
-----------
From : Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To : EV List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject : Fwd from Bob Rice: Sundance Conversion?
Date : Wed, 28 May 2003 10:42:20 -0400
-----------
Begin Forwarded Message:
Has anybody else done a 92 Plymouth Sundance two door hatchback to
electric? Any thoughts, ideas, I have a chance to pick up one cheep, clean
interior flaking crappy Chrysler paint job, no dings or dents. Runs, now, as
a gas, haz a 4 cylinder engine an' 5 speed, intact, nice clean body and it
doesn't LEAK, like the Rabbits I have owned, dry floors, as you in the Least
Coast know it has rained consistantly MOST of the last month. Good weather
to test the seaworthyness of doner cars.Hmmm? If I don't hafta bail out the
@#$% car, it looks promising!
I don't know anything about Plymouths,like anything bolt on for
upgrades, etc, weights, and all that. Anybody?
Thanks
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
Well to be honest I don't know the answer to some of these questions. For
gearing I decided to start with the stock gearing so I am using the same
sprockets that came on the motorcycle. I am considering trying a larger
gear on the back wheel to give me a little more acceleration. I wouldn't
mind a bit better 0-20 speed and one thing that I have not tested yet but am
worried about is starting from a dead stop on a hill. Once I get up to
about 20mph it pulls real nice up to about 50 and then takes a little more
time to get up to 60. I did figure out that at 60mph my motor should be
turning about 2600 RPMs which is probably a bit low for this motor
considering that most of my riding will be done at lower speeds. I haven't
weighed the bike but it is not light. With 108lbs of lead, and 50 lbs of
motor the bike is probably around 350 - 400 pounds. I am 6'3" and 245
pounds so I add quite a bit of weight and aero drag. If I were to go with 4
MB80's for my final pack that would add about another 50 pounds. I
currently have three instruments to look at, my DMM reading the pack voltage
a clamp on ammeter watching the battery amps and my speedometer. It's hard
to keep an eye on all three and pay attention to what is going on around me,
but it seems like right now I can cruise at 40mph pulling ~90amps and 50mph
~120 amps. The road where I am testing has a slight grade to it, so I have
to look at what it takes going down hill and compare that against what I see
going the other way. I'm not sure exactly how changing the gearing will
affect these numbers. On the one hand I would expect it to lower my top
speed, but since I have never seen more then 250 amps and my current pack
sags down to around 43 volts during acceleration maybe the new ratio would
allow the volts to stay a bit higher. My controller is a 275 amp curtis, so
I seem to have some more head room on current, plus there is still quite a
bit of fine tuning to do to the bike. So it may be possible to get better
low speed acceleration and keep my 60mph top speed. I also know that my
brushes are currently set to neutral. I am not sure how adjusting these
might change things. The other option that I am considering still is going
to 72V. With the performance I am seeing right now I am sure that 72V would
be scarey fast, but that would mean buying a new controller, and I'm not
sure I want to spring for that. The current performance isn't bad. The
only thing that I am really worried about is those times when I turn left
into the flow of traffic only to realize that there is a car coming somewhat
faster then I first thought, I don't feel like I have much umph at that
point to get me out of the way. Also I still need to find a good hill to
test acceleration from a dead stop on. It is very likely that I will leave
everything just as it now is, but you know you've always got to tinker. Oh
yeah I am running one of the surplus Tropcica motors. They are ADC 6.7 inch
although I believe they are an out of production version. I think the name
plate rating is 96V (could be 72) and I think they are rated around 7HP
continous and 30hp peak. My current setup seems to be using 5-6 hp to
cruise at 50. I have not ran at 60 long enough to get a feel for what that
takes. The roads around my house that I do my test runs on are mostly 45 or
lower speed limits, so I don't have much of a chance to cruise at 60 I have
just verified that I can accelerate to that speed.
damon
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part
three)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:41:20 -0700
I was wondering what kind of gearing, weight and motor your bike has.
(website?)I am kind of disapointed in my performance with the 400 amp
Curtis
and 48v with the A89. It is ok in the hill climbing area but not so great
in acceleration or top speed. Lawrence Rhodes......
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----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part three)
> >objectionable. Driving behind an electric car is quite nice, really;
I'm
> >thinking, hey, this guy is not belching smoke in my face.
>
> Ummm, this isn't necessarily true, let me 'splain.
>
> The other night I spent a couple of hours tinkering on Sparky my 48V
1974
> Suzuki GX250, at the Wayland EV juice bar. I had finally received my
new
> speedo cable so I was actually able determine what speed I was riding
at.
> Although the 4 Hawker GE16P's that made up my test pack were making a
> valliant effort, especially considering that they had spent their life
up
to
> this point riding in the back of "White Zombie" trying desperately to
hold
> themselves together as they belted out 800 amps in 13 second bursts and
> occasionally witnessed one of their "pack buddies" explode, they were
not
> able to get me to my goal of 60mph as the voltage was sagging down to 37
> volts by the time I hit 54mph. The solution was to grab 4 more of these
> same batteries and wire them up in parallel. The batteries themselves
were
> happy to join a new kinder regime and only let out one small spark of
> dissension during the wiring process which hardly bares mentioning after
the
> well documented yet unsuccessfull "Plasma Ball Revolt" a few years ago
as
> they tried to free themselves from the evil dictator who was routinely
> torturing them all the while proclaiming to the world that they enjoyed,
> indeed thrived under these conditions. A more leisurely life of
occasionall
> 250+ amp discharges in the open air of a classic motorcycle frame did
not
> seem like such a bad gig and they now routinely take me over the 60mph
> threshhold I have been seeking, but I get ahead of myself.
>
> Once the wiring was done John started tempting me with a test run up one
of
> Portlands major surface streets. This would not have been a problem
other
> then the fact that I don't yet have any of the twelve volt system wired
up
> thus no headlight, brake lights, or blinkers, not to mention the fact
that
> the bike has no plates and I have not yet gotten my motorcycle
endorsement.
> John could see the weakeness in my resolve, however, in fact probably
knew
> that I had been planning on doing this very thing the whole time anyway
else
> why would I have brought my helmet? I put up a weak fight which he
quickly
> beat down then grabbed his digital camera so he could snap some photos
as
he
> rode silently along side me in Blue Meanie. I questioned him about
local
> police patrols which he claimed to have no control over besides he said
it
> would be fun explaining to the police exactly what we are up to. Now
you
> see what kind of a twisted deviant my batteries have been subjected to.
> When questioning what our route should be he suggested that we head East
on
> Glisan which would take us right past the police station. By this time
I
> had no will power left, not so much because John was pressing the issue,
but
> because I was dying to try out the new pack so we headed out for a
little
EV
> test run. As we turned out of John's street onto Glisan and began to
> accelerate up to speed John pulled up beside me a started snapping
photos.
> Before we could get going to fast a red light came up and we chatted as
we
> sat there waiting for green. It was getting late in the evening, but
there
> was plenty of traffic out and we where right in the middle of it. The
light
> changed and we were off again. This time there where no more lights
coming
> up for a while so we were able to accelerate up to full speed. Traffic
> settled in at about 50mph and I was right in the middle of it. This was
the
> first time I had been surrounded by traffic like this and with plenty of
> pull left in the motor I was feeling confident. That silly thing that
> happens to all of our faces started to spread across my mine. Man, this
was
> a lot of fun. After riding with traffic for about a half mile I made a
> right hand turn and John followed. We cut through a neighborhood and
headed
> back west towards John's house on Burnside. On Johns side of town
Burnside
> has it's eastbound and westbound lanes split by Portland's electric
light
> rail system. As we pulled out a train was coming and for a while all
three
> Ev's where gliding along silently together. We returned to John's house
and
> plugged into his ugly box charger to returned some of the used amp
hours.
> The four new batteries had not been excercised for a while, so we knew
they
> would be even stronger on the next run. This time we decided to go even
> further. This time we would go east until we made it to John Tuss's
house.
> This would be a round trip of about 4 miles. It was basically the same
> route as before but John Tuss lived further east then I had take us.
This
> time John lead the way. I followed him on Sparky once again enjoying
the
> pull of the electric motor and the feeling of being surrounded by
traffic
> but having no problem keeping up. We knocked on Tuss's door only to
find
> that we had woken him up. No problem he assured us, and came out to
enjoy
a
> few minutes worth of chat about the new project and unplug his electric
> truck. We said goodbye and that's when it happened, although I admit he
at
> least gave me warning first. John thought I would enjoy the view and
> apparently the smell of Blue Meanie smoking the tires from a motorcycles
> perspective. As we headed back out on Burnside John let loose with some
of
> the 1200 DCP Raptor's amps that he has available leaving two big black
marks
> on the rode and a cloud of smoke for me to ride through. The smoke
filled
> my helmet and my nose, and though I know John has a hard time believing
> this, not everyone enjoys the smell of burnt rubber as much as he does.
So
> next time you are following behind a stinky gas powered ICE just
remember
> that if you happen to be following behind John Wayland in Blue Meanie,
you
> may be in for just as bad of a smell.
>
> damon
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Other then the issue of slow creep of solder, I don't agree about crimping
being better. If your connection gets so hot that it melts solder, there
is something wrong. I would rather the connection break before the whole
cable starts glowing. I have this problem on my electric scooter and
credit the solder for saving the rest of the motor.
At 09:09 AM 5/28/2003, you wrote:
Always CRIMP (and then solder if it makes you feel good). Soldering ONLY can
cause bad accidents while accelerating at full power. I have been in one,
(burned up the cheese wedge back in the early 80's). I also solder my crimp
connections and use a resistance solder technique with a 5V 100A transformer
(converted from a microwave oven transformer) and carbon arc rod. A very
good pinpoint heat source and doesn't fry the insulation like a propane
torch. Check the EMF Company 1-800-621-0080. The catalog shows a LUMA no.
551 model which I duplicated (cause I'm cheap) and ordered their carbon rod
and holder 1/4" rod no.1-4 and holder no. 19-31
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Anderson connector question
> Use the 350 amp connector and solder to the pins instead of crimping to
> them. The pins can be soldered to any gauge wire.
>
> Be careful of the current ratings. The connector ratings are for
continuous
> loads. EV currents have both peak and continuous numbers that are quite
> different.
>
> The NEC chart at
>
http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=nec/unformatted/poster&type=u&title
> =Commercial/Industrial%20Wiring%20and%20Raceway%20Chart lists 1/0 wire for
> 120 amp continuous loads with a 150 amp breaker. Your wire is about half
to
> one third the size called out by the NEC specification.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:51 PM
> Subject: Anderson connector question
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I've seen Anderson SBX350 connectors called out in a number of
> > designs. But most of those designs are for DC systems that must pull a
> > good bit more than 350 Amps. Do these connectors do well above rated
> > current? The reason I ask is that I'm doing an AC system, so battery
> > current is limited at 288 Amps. I'd like to use 1/0 cable (even that is
> > probably excessive), but only the SBX175 lists 1/0 as a valid wire
> > size. Should I go with SBX350 and figure out how to crimp to a 1/0
cable,
> > or go with SBX175 and run the connector at more than spec?
> >
> > I won't hold anyone liable for an answer, just looking for some
guidance.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sheri quotes the heaviest Fiero ever made (V6, auto, wing, big
wheels, AC), they ranged in weight from 2350 pounds to almost 2800
pounds. This makes the light one about 300 pounds more than a 914,
and about the same weight as an RX7 or Miata or old 240Z. S10's have
ranged in weight from 2600 to 4000 lbs.
I'm almost 6'4", great legroom but my head almost touched the roof.
Fieros are mechanically tough (people drop V8's in them with no other
mods). It was the most fun to drive car I have owned (more so than a
Fiat Spider, 280ZX, and a Camaro). The aerodynamics are
extraordinary, the EPA listed it as taking less hp to go 50 mph than
almost any other car. The biggest downside I see is it is an orphan,
not built for 15 years now.
http://www.factoryfive.com has Cobra kit cars that weigh under 2000
lbs, that's with a Mustang 5.0 drivetrain.
An older Porsche 912 or 911 might work well, too, running around 2200
and 2400 pounds. Good head room, a little shorter on leg room. Lots
of room for batteries. Strong drivetrain and big brakes. Enthusiasts
will insure there is a parts market for a long time.
-- Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fieros are not light, contrary to popular opinion, but weigh almost
> as much
> as an S10. They are in the 2800 lb. range.
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 May 2003 at 21:18, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I guess what I am saying is what is the least expensive contactor I can get
> by with.
Are you sure you want the cheapest? Don't you want the most reliable, so
you can be more certain that it won't weld itself on?
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
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Steve,
I recommend that you do POST this experience to an Insight
group. It could save a driver some grief.
Looking at what Honda insight groups there are
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=honda+insight&submit=Search
I would recommend that you POST to the two larger groups
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/honda-insight/
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/honda-hybrid/
=====
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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--- Begin Message ---
On 26 May 2003 at 21:56, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> These chargers will connect to two batteries at a time.
>
Be careful. Some of these "double" chargers can't handle two batteries in
series. Make sure you ask the right people.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion
Est. 2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
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I'll be very interested to hear your progress!
If you are serious about being a championship autocrosser, you might
want to wander over to http://www.scca.org or
http://www.sccaforums.com and see what the most competitive cars are.
Putting the electric motor in I'd guess classes you in the "mod"
classes.
Another thought: You might want to have the electric motor help the
gas motor, like the Honda Insight does. This would be lighter than
adding a rear drive axle. It would also use the transmission to
multiply the torque of the electric motor. If you are looking to run
high 13's in the 1/4 you don't need the help of rear wheel drive yet
-- especially if you put those batteries up front.
--- bholmber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
> A friend and I are considering taking on a similar project. We
> plan to swap
> a 1.8L 91-96 Ford Escort GT engine into a 88 Festiva, then run some
> sort of
> electric drive to the rear wheels to boost low end acceleration in
> the
> quarter mile and autocross. Our electric drive plans haven't
> really been
> finalized yet though. The electric system will depend on the deals
> that we
> can find on a motor, controller, and batteries. We're trying to
> build this
> car for under 2004$ for the grm challenge next spring. The $25
> Festiva
> seemed to be as good a place as any to start. If the car is
> successful, we
> figure we'll at least be the first vehicle with an electric drive
> system in
> the competition. Our primary goal is sub 14 second 1/4 mile times.
> If
> anyone is interested in our progress, I'll be glad to post updates
> from time
> to time. We already know we're crazy for trying this, but please
> let us
> know if we're delusional in thinking this idea will work.
>
> Thanks,
> Brett
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Orville Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 4:33 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Ford Escort Hybrid Conversion? Chevy Sprint available.
>
>
> Has anyone converted, is anyone in the process or considering
> conversion, or
> does or has anyone owned or driven a Ford Escort LX (93-96) Hybrid
> with the
> stock 1900 ICE FWD and rear drive axle installed as electric drive?
> If so
> I would like to hear of your experiences. I have a 96 and my wife
> has a 93.
> I would like to research posible conversion of one of these
> vehicles.
>
> Also, I have a 1986 Chevy Sprint in Warwick, NY, to sell or trade
> if I could
> participate in the conversion.
>
>
>
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
Ben Apollonio wrote:
> Friday night, Seth Murray and I drove deep into the Maine
> wilderness to have a look at a Porsche 914 with no engine (how
> perfect!), advertised in Uncle Henry's for $1200. Well, we got there
> and it was perfect! We ended up towing it home that night (for only
> $1000!)
Hi Ben,
Congratulations on your acquisition. I'm jealous!
> So now that I have this beauty, I'm being forced to rethink my EV
> plans. No more 120V pack of T-105's on a raptor 600...if this is a
> Porsche, it's gotta have some kick, yet I also would like to be able
> make a 25-mile commute to work 2 or 3 days a week (I assume I could
> charge it there, and it would have a 9-hour workday). So I need some
> battery help.
You've received some good advice on this. Maybe you can have the best
of both worlds.
Electro Automotive makes the VoltsPorsche kit
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/kits.shtml#voltsporsche that allows
you to skip all the planning and just build the car. That's a *huge*
benefit. It uses 20 golf cart batteries for 120 V, lets you cruise at
85 mph and gives an 80-100 mile range (probably a very deep discharge).
It won't kick butt, but it will be a nice car.
Warning, I'm electrically clueless, so I may have this next suggestion
wrong. If it's correct, it's too good not to mention. Otmar's new Z1K
and Z2K controllers allow you to program battery and motor voltage
limits *independently*. I believe they can run in boost mode (Otmar,
please correct me here), so you can have a 120 V pack and still give the
motor 156 V if you're using the Z1K-LV (156 V limit). Or more with
different models of the Zilla. Battery and motor amp limits are also
programmed independently, so you can make sure you never abuse your
batteries while dishing out big amps.
With a series DC motor, big amps are only delivered at low speeds and
relatively low motor voltages. High speeds and the high motor voltages
required to get them also mean relatively low amps. The batteries are
happy and your speed demon alter ego is happy. Of course acceleration
would be better with less battery weight, but this new flexibility in
Otmar's controllers allows you to size your pack for the range you want
and still get the best performance out of it. If I understand this
correctly, the Zilla is a major advance in controllers.
Otmar, do I have this straight? Is there a decrease in efficiency when
the controller is running in boost mode?
Chris
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For a light rear drive car, look back 30+ years. Late 60s - early 70s small
cars of all kinds. A couple that stand out in my memory are the Fiat 850
Spyder and Datsun 510. The Fiat was outrageously light (1300 lb?) and
geared very low. With that tiny 850cc engine it really could scoot! The
Datsun 510 was a favorite of the SCCA rally drivers for many years, so it'll
probably be tough to find one.
There are many other small cars from this era, typically under 1800 lb --
early Toyota Corollas I think were rear drive; late 60s Opel Kadetts weighed
about 1500 lb.
Of course you'll probably have a restoration job to do, and parts hassles
with many of them, and the collision protection is far inferior to today's
small cars. Whether these matter depends on your goals, I guess.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- Begin Message ---
Chris T writes:
Warning, I'm electrically clueless, so I may have this next suggestion
wrong. If it's correct, it's too good not to mention. Otmar's new Z1K
and Z2K controllers allow you to program battery and motor voltage
limits *independently*. I believe they can run in boost mode (Otmar,
please correct me here), so you can have a 120 V pack and still give the
motor 156 V if you're using the Z1K-LV (156 V limit). Or more with
different models of the Zilla. Battery and motor amp limits are also
programmed independently, so you can make sure you never abuse your
batteries while dishing out big amps.
With a series DC motor, big amps are only delivered at low speeds and
relatively low motor voltages. High speeds and the high motor voltages
required to get them also mean relatively low amps. The batteries are
happy and your speed demon alter ego is happy. Of course acceleration
would be better with less battery weight, but this new flexibility in
Otmar's controllers allows you to size your pack for the range you want
and still get the best performance out of it. If I understand this
correctly, the Zilla is a major advance in controllers.
Otmar, do I have this straight? Is there a decrease in efficiency when
the controller is running in boost mode?
Well, the Zilla controllers are good, and they do allow many
adjustments as you say, but they are still a standard "buck"
configuration and so not boost.
What this means is that the motor voltage will always be lower than
the battery voltage. It is true of all these buck controllers that
the motor current can be higher than the battery current. But they do
not have the ability to "boost" voltage to the motor.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> homebrew load... Hmm, maybe just 10 or 20 standard 120v lightbulbs
> being run at 160v or so. Wonder how long they would last? :-)
Not long! For normal (non halogen) bulbs, here is the relationship
between voltage and life:
% of rated voltage 100% 110% 120% 130% 140%
% of its rated life 100% 30% 10% 4% 1.5%
You'd be better off wiring pairs of 120v bulbs in series, so they could
take up to 240v. They still draw about the same current at 80v each as
they do at 120v.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> Since there are no production EVs being made and the only
> production Electrics being made are nEVs, the EV community
> may want to use these nEVs to:
>
> -continue support for and encourage new installations of
> public EV charging stations
>
> -public EV awareness and continued development of EV
> components
Great ideas, Bruce. NEVs may be the "crack in the door" to get more
public-accessible 120vac charging outlets. Electric bikes are another
candidate for using such outlets.
Depending on the Magnecharger paddles and Avcon as our "standard" EV
charging connectors is doomed. The Magnecharger is already discontinued,
and how long will the Avcon connector be available now that no one is
using it in production?
> There aren't currently any UL approved 'drop in' boxes...
> Perhaps an AVCON head could be installed with a standard
> duplex 5-20 receptacle with built in gfi could be mounted
> below it. There are weather tight enclosures that could be
> used, linked on http://geocities.com/evchargng/
I don't know of anything in the NEC that prohibits installing ordinary
120vac outdoor receptacles. Likewise, UL has no special EV standards for
such 120vac outlets -- just the rules that have always existed. All the
nonsense of NEC-625 only comes into play if you call it an "electric
vehicle charging connector". So, you have to call it something else.
"Accessory power", for instance.
> EVs in what ever form, need to be around for when the
> automakers do an about-face again. After they spend all
> their federal dollars, the automakers will publicly state
> fcvs "can't be done".
And you know they will, too!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> 8 volt batteries give you the worst of both worlds. Even LESS
> performance than 6 volt batteries and almost as much weight
> (950 lbs give or take).
The 8 volt golf cart batteries are really just repackaged 6 volt
batteries. Same size and weight, same number of plates, just rewired.
33% more voltage, 33% less amphours.
If you lower your current drain by the same amount that you raised your
voltage, there will be no effect on life, accelleration, or range. For a
while I drove a Lectric Leopard (1980 Renault LeCar EV) with twelve 8v
batteries (120v), a 6.7" ADC motor, and a Curtis 1221B controller turned
down to 400amps. It was just fine; it drove just like a 96v Rabbit with
twelve 6v batteries and a 500amp controller.
What usually goes wrong is that people put 8 volt batteries in place of
6v batteries, and think they can load them to the same currents. They
use the higher voltage to get by with fewer batteries (less lead), and
also try to go faster and accellerate quicker. The result is that the 8v
cells are overloaded, have large voltage sags, and die early.
The way to look at it is that 8v are just the same as 6v batteries, but
give you a higher voltage and less current. Use them if you only expect
low speeds and leisurely accelleration, and already have a
higher-voltage motor and controller, and need the extra voltage to make
it work. Otherwise, just use 6v batteries (they are cheaper and more
available), and pick your motor and controller accordingly.
> Coupled to even a 600 amp controller they will die quickly. To get any
> kind of life from these batteries maximum draw should be limited to less
> than 300 amps. After a year or two you'd be lucky to get 200 amps.
>
> Range when new will be about 35 miles, after a year or two it will be
> less than 20 miles (assuming he keeps the current down below 300 amps).
>
> Finally a set of 15 batteries will cost you as much or more as a set of
> 20 6v batts.
>
> You end up with a lead sled with glacial performance and batteries that
> die quickly even if you treat them right (two to three years max).
> Hook them up to a 600 amp controller and frequently bury your foot and
> you'll be lucky to get a year out of them.
>
> For an 8V performance example consider my truck.15 8 volt batteries that
> were somewhere near the middle of their life and a total weight of about
> 3200 lbs.
> 0-60 took about a minute and a half. This is while keeping pack voltage
> above 105 volts (about 250 amp draw)
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
