EV Digest 2831
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Sparrows are worth *that* much?!
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Sparrows are worth *that* much?!
by "Russell Levine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Fwd from Bob Rice: Electrak
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery pack sizing questions
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Sparrows are worth *that* much?!
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fwd from Bob Rice: Electrak
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: No Limo for this Wedding, the Tango Takes Two
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Watch your quoting!
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Sparrows are worth *that* much?!
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) ADC 8" Motor timing--Raptor 1200 relationship...
by "vinnybrain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Sparrows are worth *that* much?!
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Sparrows are worth *that* much?!
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Power Meters
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: DC-DC's in parallel?
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) First EV ride from Oz.
by "Chris Crouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EV Cost Calculations
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Efficiency numbers
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Power Meters
by Sherri J Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV Cost Calculations
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: ADC 8" Motor timing--Raptor 1200 relationship...
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Batteries (and caps too!)
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) electric shredder
by Ben Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: toyota echo conversion
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Yet Another kind of EV
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery pack sizing questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: toyota echo conversion
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Yet Another kind of EV
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Battery pack sizing questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: toyota echo conversion
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Semiconductors wear (was: Efficiency numbers)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) NiZn charging (was Re: battery cooling)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Battery pack sizing questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: toyota echo conversion
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 01:22:45AM -0700, KARLA JACKSONLEVINE wrote:
> Starting bid is enough to buy 2 or 3 "normal" used EVs:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2417710184
Needs a new battery pack, and wants $21K? In his dreams!
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we
are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
-Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President (1858-1919)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2417710184
Needs a new battery pack, and wants $21K? In his
dreams!>>
Maybe he expects to catch the eye of the same people
who would pay $6K for a SLA Lepton from zappyworld.com
when nycewheels.com sells them for 1/3 that price
________________________________________________
PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Too expensive and too hard to find distributor.
At 01:11 AM 6/2/2003, you wrote:
On 1 Jun 2003 at 23:39, Seth Murray wrote:
> But the time is NOW for the return of Electrak.
Electric Tractor Corp. has been trying for years and, from what I've heard,
not scoring many sales. They have a web page but in Mozilla and K-Meleon
(standard browsers), also in older Netscape, it displays the source (I
guess because of an incorrect server header):
http://www.electrictractor.com/
Way to go, Bob, have fun with your new ET!
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gary,
> Now that you mentioned the parameters, I find that my 430
Ibat_Max_Pos
> parameter is actually set at 280 (not 200, as previously claimed--I had it
> set lower earlier).
Don't forget to hit F5 when you are in the parameters page to save the
changes to the inverter's EPROM. F2 will save your changes on the computer.
Cliff
www.ProEv.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Battery pack sizing questions
> Now that you mentioned the parameters, I find that my 430
Ibat_Max_Pos
> parameter is actually set at 280 (not 200, as previously claimed--I had it
> set lower earlier). So this makes me feel a lot better knowing that this
is
> the limiting parameter for battery current. Perhaps I adjusted it up again
> to get a bit more performance.
>
> My 431 Ibat_Max_Neg is 100A. The corresponding "valet mode"
> parameters, 432 and 433 are 100 and 100, respectively.
>
> Your idea of jacking it up and running a load test is interesting!
>
> If I could get 27A doing this, I wouldn't have to drive around the
> block for 3 and one half hours. ;-)
>
> Seriously, it means that one can do data collection with lab
equipment
> vs having portable monitors for everything. I should also find my weakest
> battery and use it for the fuel gauge (haven't got to that point yet).
>
> Gary
> ==========================================
> From: "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sun Jun 1, 2003 12:13 pm
> Subject: Re: Battery pack sizing questions
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I think, and I hope Victor will correct me if I am wrong, that if
you
> can
> control battery max amp draw by setting parameter 430 Ibat_Max_Pos.
> Parameter 431 Ibat _Max_Neg sets max regen battery amps. Parameters
> 432 and
> 433 do the same thing for when you have the "Valet" switch on (the
> switch
> which only allows only reduced power for when you trust your car to
> the
> parking attendant <G>).
>
> I have been conditioning my pack by setting Ibat_Max_Pos to 5 amps,
> putting
> the car up on jacks, and running full throttle. (Don't try this at
> home
> unless you make sure the car can not fall off it's jacks<g>). The
> motor
> spins at about 3500 while I moniter the weakest cell. I start my
> recharge
> when it hits 1.75 volts.
>
> It does seem that I see higher instantaneous amp draw if I bang on
the
> throttle. Once it settles, it stays below what ever Ibat_Max_Pos is
> set at.
>
> Cliff
>
> www.ProEV.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 12:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery pack sizing questions
>
>
> > Ralph's experience suggests that we should consider the max power
> > ratings, which appear to be lower in most of the advanced battery
> > chemistries. I'm currently using a temporary pack of 14
> nine-year-old
> Hawker
> > 38AH AGM batteries for a nominal voltage of 168V.
> >
> > The Siemens SIADIS program gives me the following statistics for
my
> > current draws on my Insight:
> >
> > total running time 5:44:30
> > 0 amps 41:49 or 12.5%
> > 0-100 amps 3:18:47 or 57.5%
> > 100-200 amps 1:20:36 or 23.3%
> > 200-300 amps 20:14 or 5.9%
> > 300-400 amps 3:4 or 0.9%
> >
> > I have set a current limit of 200A for the motor (which can take
> > 280A), but it would seem that it boosts the voltage and thus draws
> more
> > battery current. (I'd really like to limit the battery current, so
> I'll
> have
> > to look at all the cryptic parameters to see if there is such a
> limit). I
> > have two 300A 500VDC fuses in the battery pack which of course
allow
> short,
> > small excursions past their rating without blowing.
> >
> > I plan to use a LiIon pack of 86 cells for 309V nominal. These
seem
> to
> > have high internal resistance and the temperature increases with
> current
> due
> > to the exothermic reactions as well as the cell resistance. The
> manufacturer
> > has only published up to 1.5C constant current curves.
> >
> > We're seeing a temperature 43C after 72AH at 27A (.3C) constant
> > discharge for one cell in a free standing battery of 4 cells. Lee
> has
> seen
> > 50C after 87AH at 25A.
> >
> > Perhaps an experiment is in order to watch the effects of larger
> > current draws, but for short times. We'll probably have to arrange
> some
> > cooling to avoid damaging the cell.
> >
> > This also suggests recording the volts and amps during normal
> driving
> > so that we have an idea of the proper real-life mix of current
> draws.
> Victor
> > had a small amount of data on this for his first two cells.
> >
> > Gary
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Needs a new battery pack, and wants $21K? In his
> dreams!>>
Could be a new business opportunity. Buy Sparrows on Ebay for 6k, then turn
around and sell them on Ebay as "classics" for 21k. Makes you a net profit
of 15k per sale.
So how can one lose. The above actually sounds like a better business plan
than some funded in the dot.com revolution. The question is how do I go
about raising 10 million dollars as "seed capital" for this plan?
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good luck with the tractor, Bob!
I met a man from Grants Pass, OR, he works for Alltrac and was buying and
loading the E-15 that was offered to me in the Salem area (this was on
Saturday). Got the mower deck and tiller with it. It needs a LOT of work,
but was a good deal. If I hadn't just spent money on the little JD 140, I
would have taken it myself. But I needed something right away, and didn't
have the time to put into fixing the E-15 up right now.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:39 PM
Subject: Fwd from Bob Rice: Electrak
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Sun Jun 1, 2003 10:10:08 PM US/Eastern
> > To: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Electrak
> >
> > Hi Seth an' All;
> >
> > It slowed down to a gentle dribble so-time to go and pick up the
> > Electrac! Fired up the trusty rusty Ford Van SBT/ Slow Boxy Thing to
> > go pick
> > it up. Piece of cake! Hada set of ramps, all we had to do was push it
> > in! No
> > batteries, so tractor is nice and light. In a few we had it safely
> > inside, a
> > E-12 model, complete and resplendent in yellow rust o matic color
> > scheme!
> > The mower deck followed the tractor aboard, Gees! They sure fit nicely
> > in
> > Ford vans, or on a small trailer. Hmmm? To a car show Electrak in tow
> > behind
> > the Rabbit for an all EVent. Getting ahead of myself a bit, here. Got
> > it
> > home, downloasded it and pushed it in range of the garden hose for
> > first
> > cleanup. Blast the mouse nests and tree debris out of everything.
> > Dumped it
> > over on it's side to hose out the battery boxes, yes! They are solid
> > steel!
> > No blown out rusty parts, yet. Only major structurasl stuff IO can
> > find to
> > weld/ repair is the back hatch that the seat goes on! A bit rusted and
> > bent,
> > easy fix. The mice long gone, guy cleaned them out for me, already,
> > the rest
> > of the debris washed out. Oh so nice to be able to dump the tractor on
> > its
> > side to scrub it out! No spilled oil and glop dripping out! Wow! What a
> > simple thing to look at and work on! Single golf cart style motor
> > belted to
> > the tranny, a massive cast iron looking thing, wires, good shape,
> > running to
> > the controls up above deck. Wanna sandblast EVerything clean, for some
> > good
> > old Rust Olium paint, rusty metal primer that great Red Stuff I use for
> > battery wracks and the like. A few coats of Tractor Yellow would look
> > good,
> > too. Not only did I get a complete restorable tractor, but the
> > origional
> > Owners Manual, fram-able afds , a copy of Popular Mechanics, circa
> > April
> > 1970 telling all about the great Electric Tracter that Generous
> > Electric
> > will be selling! Fun reading, also same issue telling all about the
> > new AMC
> > Gremlen, going up against the VW bug. No contest, but I guess there are
> > Gremlin discussion groups an' stuff on Line? EVen as breat 1974 ad
> > with the
> > new models making the old ones go on sale for 800 bux for the E 12! I
> > guess
> > the electrics were more than a cheepo gas job from Sears, or Western
> > Auto?
> > For yu El;ectrak freeks; When did they quit making them? And why?
> > Bettya
> > could build a better one today with a moulded one piece body of that
> > carbon
> > plastic stuff, no rust! Bolt yur hardware axles, what not to this
> > strong
> > structure. Prresto! An EV most EVerybody could use. Wouldn't need to be
> > crash tested, or airbags and all that stuff. Sell this machine with a
> > plethura of goodies, plow winches, sweeper, tiller, like GE did. But I
> > would
> > like to see a good stout inverter 36 to 60 hz 120 volts to run yur
> > other
> > tools from the powrer supply. And , Of Course! A Wayland signature
> > stereo,
> > too! Make it Just too much damn FUN to mow the lawn. Yud hafta pry the
> > kid
> > off it to try it yourself! An Alltrax controller, get Damon, of DCP
> > fame
> > involved here, you could hose off the whole tractor, controller,
> > batteries,
> > the works. After all ya wanna keep this cool machine showroom clean,
> > too.
> > But the time is NOW for the return of Electrak. If GE isn't
> > interested.......a way to get poz cash flow to build a EV down the
> > road,
> > after ya swept the tractor biz into your fold. But looking at the
> > 'Trak from
> > a new owners view, short wheel base, mower deck up front where ya can
> > SEE
> > what it's doing, nice weight distrubution, pull the deck up and flip
> > it over
> > for repair. Nice! Gees! I EVen have a nice Electrak seat with the GE
> > Curly
> > cue llogo! Doesn't get better than that. This machine will have a spot
> > in my
> > new garage, ready to trundle out, to do battle with the the snow next
> > winter. Wheee! Gotyta try the snow thrower! And for once I don't CARE
> > how
> > much it weighs! Like a locomotive ya WANT it heavy! Easy to do with a
> > buncha
> > T 145's! If it EVer stops RAINING here, Ill get her up and running. The
> > motor sure looks like a golf cart motor, havent opened it up to see if
> > there
> > are any more mice aboard<g>!
> >
> > Seeya
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Jun 2003 at 22:13, Lee Hart wrote:
> So... Rick (or anyone): Design an EV that explicitly meets these
> requirements! Then you can sell it for "free"!
Omigosh. Lee's right. A hundred grand can make one heck of a nice EV. And
all you need to make it weigh 3 tons is lots and lots of batteries.
Let's go, gang!
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- Begin Message ---
Just a reminder to posters: PLEASE edit and minimize your quoted text.
Some folks read the list from slow downloads and/or still pay by the
character or minute for connect time. When you quote an entire long message
just to say something minimal, such as "congratulations," or "I agree," you
are actually costing people time and money. Please try to be more
considerate of these folks.
Unfortunately, the widely used MS Outlook mail client by default appends the
entire message to the end of your reply. It's easy to not even notice it.
So if you use Outlook, please use its setup to ^turn off^ message quoting,
and selectively copy and paste the text to which you want to respond into
your reply.
Thanks.
Also, should you wish to "unsubscribe," you'll find information on how to do
so on this page:
http://www.evdl.org/help/
Wearing my "assistant EV list administrator" hat today,
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heck no. At least I sure ^hope^ nobody's crazy enough to bid on this.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I read somewhere on the list here that Raptor 1200 controllers may
lose their smoke if wired to ADC motors that haven't had their timing
set properly. Being the proud owner of a brand-spankin new 8 and a
Raptor 1200 ala Emillio, I really would like to keep the smoke inside
both of my two most pricey components of my 'lectro-metro.
Since I find the search engine on this board about useless, can
someone either direct me to the old post/digest #'s where this was
covered, or maybe someone might know off the top of their brain how
to take me thru the tutorial on checking it and verifying my timing??
Thanks list!
Vince Barma
p.s. whats up with the search engine anyway? one would think I could
type in "motor timing" and it would present something other than a
list of last weeks 12 digest topics, none of wich correct...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 01:51, Alan Batie wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 01:22:45AM -0700, KARLA JACKSONLEVINE wrote:
> > Starting bid is enough to buy 2 or 3 "normal" used EVs:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2417710184
>
> Needs a new battery pack, and wants $21K? In his dreams!
On the bright side, the starter works!!??!
We all know how important those are to EVs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 06:36, Christopher Zach wrote:
> > Needs a new battery pack, and wants $21K? In his
> > dreams!>>
>
> Could be a new business opportunity. Buy Sparrows on Ebay for 6k, then turn
> around and sell them on Ebay as "classics" for 21k. Makes you a net profit
> of 15k per sale.
>
> So how can one lose. The above actually sounds like a better business plan
> than some funded in the dot.com revolution. The question is how do I go
> about raising 10 million dollars as "seed capital" for this plan?
Borrow it from Corbin?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone looked at the Digital Voltage and Amperage meters from DATEL
(http://www.datel.com)? They look fairly nice, but I would prefer a price
closer to the OEM price then the full list price. I guess I am a sucker
for Blue LEDs. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Bruce, I am going to try it then, and will report back. I can get a
bunch of these dirt-cheap, so I have little to lose if smoke gets out.
-Dave
82 Jet Electrica Escort, Curtis 1221c+20 T-125s
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: DC-DC's in parallel?
<snip>
He said that it can be
done as long as the units in parallel are set to
the same output voltage.
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all.
After some feedback from the list the on line EV/Gas cost comparison page
has gotten some "upgrades" and bug fixes.
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV/
Bugs Fixed:
You can now enter a value of 0 for Inspection costs and misc. costs for both
gasser and EV.
Fixed minor math error (rounding).
Upgrades:
You can now optionally include gasoline engine estimated lifetime and
replacement costs.
Ditto for Electric Motor.
Ditto for Motor Controller.
Ditto for Charger.
The best part is, the page shows you the results based on the options you
have filled out, so if You don't fill them out, the page results are the
same as before, but as you fill out options you can see how they effect the
final result.
Play around with this some and tell me what you think. Also let me know if
you find any problems.
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, which, when you looked
at it in the right way, did not become still more complicated. - Poul
Anderson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From : Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject : Re: Efficiency numbers Date : Sun, 01 Jun 2003 20:35:56
-0700 Yes, it is semantics. It is certainly not a new motor; maybe 10%
of the
parts are new, the rest are old ones that were still within specs. Same
with a used battery; it may have been tested and/or reconditioned to
perform as well as new; but it isn't really new.
When my wife's 93 Escort died (at only 101,000 miles), I priced out
replacement motors, since the rest of the car was in decent shape. The
dealer quoted me a bit over $4,000 for a factory new engine, plus
installation. Kragen quoted me $2,199 for a 'remanufactured' long block.
This meant that I still needed to buy new belts, spark plugs, wires, etc.
(or reuse the old ones.) I would then need to install the motor or pay for
installation. It came with a 12,000 mile parts-only warranty, and would be
inspected in case of warranty claim to make sure I installed it correctly.
(The clerk basically told me that I would only get the warranty if it was
installed by a shop. More money.)
It's not even semantics--it's a USED motor.
Oh, and ICE vehicles have controller failures, too. The computer failed in
the Escort ($1,100, a couple of years earlier with only 75,000 on the
odometer), and the computer died in my Ranger at 160,000 miles (scrapped the
truck.)
Tim
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gordon,
I bought a couple of these meters and
was happy with their appearance and accuracy.
I paid $70 which was cheaper than most of the other
panel mount units that I priced.
Rod
--- Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone looked at the Digital Voltage and
> Amperage meters from DATEL
> (http://www.datel.com)? They look fairly nice, but
> I would prefer a price
> closer to the OEM price then the full list price. I
> guess I am a sucker
> for Blue LEDs. :-)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James,
I like the changes, especially the use of color to separate out the engine
cost etc.
Of course, it made me think of some other improvements.
It would be clearer, if you displayed the gas results and electric results
the same way. I E The first line of gas results should be gallon per year to
match KW/HR per year. And I would dump the actual KW/HR per year and use the
Adjusted for Charger /Battery efficiency KW/HR since that is the actually
figure the car user would be billed for.
The second line would be Gas costs per year and Cost per year for
electricity. Then your columns line up evenly all the way to the optional
bits.
I would also put Operating costs per mile in a brighter color so people find
it more quickly.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:18 PM 6/2/2003 +0000, vinnybrain stated:
someone either direct me to the old post/digest #'s where this was
covered, or maybe someone might know off the top of their brain how
to take me thru the tutorial on checking it and verifying my timing??
You probably want to jump over to the Sparrow_EV group as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
It's a Yahoo group of course...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See embedded comments.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Batteries (and caps too!)
<snip>
>
> 8831Joules/3600sec *watt-sec/joule =2.45kWh
>
Should the results be in Wh, not kWh?
> 2.45kwh/0.65kg gives 3.78 kwh/kg
>
<snip>
>
> If I did my math wrong, someone please correct me...
Otherwise, looks ok to me. Mark T.
>
> Seth
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got a Harbor Freight sale catalog today and a couple of
things caught my eye. The first was a chipper shedder, 2HP,
115 volt, 60 HZ. $120 bucks. Page 3, lot # 41098. Wasn't
someone on the list looking for one? The second was a
cordless circular saw. 18 Volts. $60 bucks. Page 16, lot#
37412. That looks like it would be perfect for one of those
bicycle motors.
--
Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
Ben Bennett
http://home.earthlink.net/~greyhawk200/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The motors sold by atzwholesale.com were intended
(including front flange) for Ford Ranger pickup truck.
They are too large for Echo. AFAIK,
atzwholesale.com does not have any inverters.
Victor
KARLA JACKSONLEVINE wrote:
>
> <<I'm considering doing a conversion using a Toyota
> Echo.>>
>
> That sounds like a great candidate! Considering how
> small some conversions are, you should have plenty of
> room (it's tall and narrow, so there's still places to
> sow batteries) How far do you want to go and how much
> do you want to spend? AC runs a bit more than DC, but
> can come as a more complete "package" - I know
> metricmind.com has Siemens AC systems, but I wonder
> about the ones at atzwholesale.com: I just see motors,
> not the driver, so that might not work.
>
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just ran into Yet Another kind of home use EV you can buy.
An electric Wheelbarrow. My mom had it in her catalog (Country Home
Products I think).
http://www.easyhauling.com/
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gary Graunke wrote:
>
> Ralph's experience suggests that we should consider the max power
> ratings, which appear to be lower in most of the advanced battery
> chemistries. I'm currently using a temporary pack of 14 nine-year-old Hawker
> 38AH AGM batteries for a nominal voltage of 168V.
>
> The Siemens SIADIS program gives me the following statistics for my
> current draws on my Insight:
>
> total running time 5:44:30
> 0 amps 41:49 or 12.5%
> 0-100 amps 3:18:47 or 57.5%
> 100-200 amps 1:20:36 or 23.3%
> 200-300 amps 20:14 or 5.9%
> 300-400 amps 3:4 or 0.9%
>
> I have set a current limit of 200A for the motor (which can take
> 280A), but it would seem that it boosts the voltage and thus draws more
> battery current.
Gary,
Note, the motor current displayed is peak (inverter limits it to
400A, or 280A rms).
Inverter reduces battery voltage, so motor voltage is less and
motor current is more than battery voltage and current respectively
> (I'd really like to limit the battery current, so I'll have
> to look at all the cryptic parameters to see if there is such a limit).
They are not too cryptic - Ibat_pos is positive (out of battery,
i.e. driving) battery current, Ibat_neg is negative (into the battery
i.e. regen) battery current.
Both can be set independently.
> I have two 300A 500VDC fuses in the battery pack which of course allow short,
> small excursions past their rating without blowing.
>
> I plan to use a LiIon pack of 86 cells for 309V nominal. These seem to
> have high internal resistance and the temperature increases with current due
> to the exothermic reactions as well as the cell resistance. The manufacturer
> has only published up to 1.5C constant current curves.
>
> We're seeing a temperature 43C after 72AH at 27A (.3C) constant
> discharge for one cell in a free standing battery of 4 cells. Lee has seen
> 50C after 87AH at 25A.
>
> Perhaps an experiment is in order to watch the effects of larger
> current draws, but for short times. We'll probably have to arrange some
> cooling to avoid damaging the cell.
>
> This also suggests recording the volts and amps during normal driving
> so that we have an idea of the proper real-life mix of current draws. Victor
> had a small amount of data on this for his first two cells.
Yes, here:
Raw unprocessed: http://www.metricmind.com/misc/acrx4a.gif
plotted with excel: http://www.metricmind.com/misc/current_voltage.gif
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 12:38, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> The motors sold by atzwholesale.com were intended
> (including front flange) for Ford Ranger pickup truck.
>
Didn't the Ranger EVs use a special rear mounted transaxle?
Some of the photos appear to show transaxles in the background so
perhaps these are the ones that go with the motors. Assuming this is
the case then it might be possible to adapt one of these to a front
wheel drive vehicle (assuming there is room)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I could have used one of those last summer when my Dad and I where putting a
concrete floor in the shed.
I hope that the wheel has some kind of brake that can lock it up because
without the bumper around the front of the wheel to dig into the ground
dumping a load is going to be a challenge.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Lussmyer
>> snip <<
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cliff Rassweiler wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> I think, and I hope Victor will correct me if I am wrong, that if you can
> control battery max amp draw by setting parameter 430 Ibat_Max_Pos.
> Parameter 431 Ibat _Max_Neg sets max regen battery amps. Parameters 432 and
> 433 do the same thing for when you have the "Valet" switch on (the switch
> which only allows only reduced power for when you trust your car to the
> parking attendant <G>).
You got it exactly right!
> It does seem that I see higher instantaneous amp draw if I bang on the
> throttle. Once it settles, it stays below what ever Ibat_Max_Pos is set at.
KI and KP controller watching for these values, has some overshoot
allowance.
Victor
> Cliff
>
> www.ProEV.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 12:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery pack sizing questions
>
> > Ralph's experience suggests that we should consider the max power
> > ratings, which appear to be lower in most of the advanced battery
> > chemistries. I'm currently using a temporary pack of 14 nine-year-old
> Hawker
> > 38AH AGM batteries for a nominal voltage of 168V.
> >
> > The Siemens SIADIS program gives me the following statistics for my
> > current draws on my Insight:
> >
> > total running time 5:44:30
> > 0 amps 41:49 or 12.5%
> > 0-100 amps 3:18:47 or 57.5%
> > 100-200 amps 1:20:36 or 23.3%
> > 200-300 amps 20:14 or 5.9%
> > 300-400 amps 3:4 or 0.9%
> >
> > I have set a current limit of 200A for the motor (which can take
> > 280A), but it would seem that it boosts the voltage and thus draws more
> > battery current. (I'd really like to limit the battery current, so I'll
> have
> > to look at all the cryptic parameters to see if there is such a limit). I
> > have two 300A 500VDC fuses in the battery pack which of course allow
> short,
> > small excursions past their rating without blowing.
> >
> > I plan to use a LiIon pack of 86 cells for 309V nominal. These seem
> to
> > have high internal resistance and the temperature increases with current
> due
> > to the exothermic reactions as well as the cell resistance. The
> manufacturer
> > has only published up to 1.5C constant current curves.
> >
> > We're seeing a temperature 43C after 72AH at 27A (.3C) constant
> > discharge for one cell in a free standing battery of 4 cells. Lee has
> seen
> > 50C after 87AH at 25A.
> >
> > Perhaps an experiment is in order to watch the effects of larger
> > current draws, but for short times. We'll probably have to arrange some
> > cooling to avoid damaging the cell.
> >
> > This also suggests recording the volts and amps during normal
> driving
> > so that we have an idea of the proper real-life mix of current draws.
> Victor
> > had a small amount of data on this for his first two cells.
> >
> > Gary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> temperature (40 deg C) produces the higher voltage. They also mention a sag
> due to current load, but I can't find any numbers. (They do refer to a
> number of graphs, but they are missing from the document...) In a later
> paragraph, they claim that capacity is essentially independent of current
> load, though. I'm not sure how both of these statements can be true. One
They are talking strictly about Amp Hour capacity. I.e. if the battery
is rated for 100 AH at the 5 amp (20 hr) rate, it will still produce
roughly 100 AH at the 100 amp rate.
Energy capacity, however, DOES go down significantly at higher current
draws because of the voltage sag.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> The semiconductor wearout mechanisms I know are all thermally related.
> If you don't get the parts too hot, they don't bother you. Are there
> others that *do* apply to EV parts?
In short, unless you stress them (knowingly or not), no.
Whew, we're OK :-).
Describing ICs wear mechanisms is OT, but if you really care, I can
get you basics off list.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
fred whitridge wrote:
>
> More as I learn more. Victor is shipping me a Brusa and I am struggling
> to get higher amperage charge curves from Evercel.
Fred,
I talked to Elio, and got the info I needed to program the chargers.
According to him, you don't want to stuff more than 11A into MB80.
His alg is rather interesting, it's strictly timed CC/CC one,
no constant voltage phase.
There are 2 variants of this, more and less aggressive.
On Tuesday I should know missing temp compensation details and will
post working alg to the library page you can download it from.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bryan and all SIemens system users,
You get the same performance up to the point where you hit valet
current value. So at low speeds (Ibat<I_red_pos, "red" stands
for "reduced"), there is no difference.
You can override valet current if you wire accelerator pot's kick down
switch to a valet switch, so when you floor it, inverter switches
from valet mode to full power. That's the intent of kick down switch.
Victor
Bryan Avery wrote:
>
> >
> > It does seem that I see higher instantaneous amp draw if I bang on the
> > throttle. Once it settles, it stays below what ever Ibat_Max_Pos is
> set
> > at.
> >
> I was under the impression that if you floor the gas pedal when it is in
> "economy/valet" mode, it will still give you full power, I guess as a
> safety measure to make sure you still have enough power to get out of
> the way when you find yourself in a dangerous situation. Victor can
> probably verify if this is correct or not.
>
> -Bryan Avery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have no idea, I know nothing about Rangers's guts.
Victor
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 12:38, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > The motors sold by atzwholesale.com were intended
> > (including front flange) for Ford Ranger pickup truck.
> >
>
> Didn't the Ranger EVs use a special rear mounted transaxle?
>
> Some of the photos appear to show transaxles in the background so
> perhaps these are the ones that go with the motors. Assuming this is
> the case then it might be possible to adapt one of these to a front
> wheel drive vehicle (assuming there is room)
--- End Message ---
