--- Begin Message ---
Darin,
Thanks for the info. This is very helpful. My guess is 400amps is going to be kind
of scary in this thing unless I'm going in a strait line for a while (like say a Â
mile)..;-)
While on this topic I actually have another newbie question that I havenât been able
to find an answer to anywhere and know this list can answer.
Can you run two controllers in parallel to the same motor to get a higher amperage?
Like say run two 400amp controllers in parallel to get 800amps? Would a mismatch in
flow through the two cause problems?
If this was possible I would have thought the drag racers would be doing it but so far
I havenât seen (not that I have seen everything) anyone with this type of setup.
Thanks,
Jay - Working in the oil patch but dreaming about an electric futureâ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 10/7/2004 8:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: RE: etek motor
Guys,
I'm running two eteks in my 48V drag bike. I've seen 1200 amps across 2
motors in parallel, so at least 600 amps per. I'll look for some data logs, but I
recall about 700 or 800 amps when the motors are in series. Others on the list warn
of demagnetizing the fields at high currents, but I'm definately not losing any
torque. But that's pretty short duration. All this is at 48V. I've heard that 96V
is possible. It's something I want to venture into, but haven't gotten there yet.
Once an etek gets up to speed, they don't draw much for amps. Does the 400 amp
Alltrax have 400 amps constant, or for a few minutes? I'm sure your 400 amp
controller won't stay at 400 amps for very long. As I'm sure you've heard elsewhere,
'SUCK AMPS'
Darin
-------------- Original message from "Brown, Jay" : --------------
> Darin,
>
> Hi! This is my first post. I've been lurking for about a month now.
>
> I myself just bought an Etek for a go-cart I'm building and was curious
> how many amps you are running to each of your motors? I have a 400amp,
> 48V Alltrax controller. The motor is rated for [EMAIL PROTECTED] which I
> had assumed I could go past as long as it's not for very long. Any idea
> what the upper limit for amperage and voltage is on these motors?
>
> Thanks!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jay Brown (EV newbie)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:26 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: etek motor
>
> Hello and welcome Richard,
>
> I've got twin eteks on my bike. Mounted face to face so they turn in
> opposite directions. I've measured current draw on both motors when on
> my load bench, and they will pull pretty much the same current when
> running either direction. I have adjusted the field timing a tiny bit
> to get the motors to share the load equally.
>
> Sorry to make a short story long, but I was hoping others would agree
> and not disagree with my observations.
>
> Either direction is fine in my opinion.
>
>
> Darin
>
> -------------- Original message from richard ball : --------------
>
> > hi
> > i'm new to the group so forgive me if this has been
> > covered before
> > i've bought a briggs etek motor for my ev project
> > the terminals are not marked + or -
> > does this mean the etek will run in either direction
> > or is there a rotation direction of preference ?
> > sorry if this is a daft question but i'm just starting
> > to learn about evs in general
> > regards
> > richard
> > location uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW
> Yahoo!
> > Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
>
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
------_=_NextPart_001_01C4ACE1.1BE293D7"
Subject: RE: etek motor
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:47:10 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: etek motor
Thread-Index: AcSs14vjToiAyOBhQlOFTTLvL84muwABX1E+
From: "Brown, Jay--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:00:32 +0800
From: Quin Pendragon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: etek motor
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi,
Seeing as this thread is newbie central, I thought I'd pitch in with
a newbie question of my own. :)
I'm planning an electric gokart, as Jay is. I was looking at an ADC
6.7" motor. How would one of these compare with an Etek or other
Lynch-type motor?
Also, the ADC is rated at 72v - would it be OK to run it off 96v given
a current-limiting controller? And what sort of power can one handle
short term (say 15-20 seconds)? Finally, how firm is that 5000 RPM
limit - will the motor implode if I rev over that, or just arc and be
unhappy?
Cheers,
Quin
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:47:10 -0500, Brown, Jay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Darin,
>
> Thanks for the info. This is very helpful. My guess is 400amps is going to be kind
> of scary in this thing unless I'm going in a strait line for a while (like say a ¼
> mile)..;-)
>
> While on this topic I actually have another newbie question that I haven't been able
> to find an answer to anywhere and know this list can answer.
>
> Can you run two controllers in parallel to the same motor to get a higher amperage?
> Like say run two 400amp controllers in parallel to get 800amps? Would a mismatch in
> flow through the two cause problems?
>
> If this was possible I would have thought the drag racers would be doing it but so
> far I haven't seen (not that I have seen everything) anyone with this type of setup.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jay - Working in the oil patch but dreaming about an electric future…;-)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thu 10/7/2004 8:10 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: etek motor
>
> Guys,
>
> I'm running two eteks in my 48V drag bike. I've seen 1200 amps across 2
> motors in parallel, so at least 600 amps per. I'll look for some data logs, but I
> recall about 700 or 800 amps when the motors are in series. Others on the list warn
> of demagnetizing the fields at high currents, but I'm definately not losing any
> torque. But that's pretty short duration. All this is at 48V. I've heard that 96V
> is possible. It's something I want to venture into, but haven't gotten there yet.
> Once an etek gets up to speed, they don't draw much for amps. Does the 400 amp
> Alltrax have 400 amps constant, or for a few minutes? I'm sure your 400 amp
> controller won't stay at 400 amps for very long. As I'm sure you've heard
> elsewhere, 'SUCK AMPS'
>
> Darin
>
> -------------- Original message from "Brown, Jay" : --------------
>
> > Darin,
> >
> > Hi! This is my first post. I've been lurking for about a month now.
> >
> > I myself just bought an Etek for a go-cart I'm building and was curious
> > how many amps you are running to each of your motors? I have a 400amp,
> > 48V Alltrax controller. The motor is rated for [EMAIL PROTECTED] which I
> > had assumed I could go past as long as it's not for very long. Any idea
> > what the upper limit for amperage and voltage is on these motors?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Jay Brown (EV newbie)
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:26 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: etek motor
> >
> > Hello and welcome Richard,
> >
> > I've got twin eteks on my bike. Mounted face to face so they turn in
> > opposite directions. I've measured current draw on both motors when on
> > my load bench, and they will pull pretty much the same current when
> > running either direction. I have adjusted the field timing a tiny bit
> > to get the motors to share the load equally.
> >
> > Sorry to make a short story long, but I was hoping others would agree
> > and not disagree with my observations.
> >
> > Either direction is fine in my opinion.
> >
> >
> > Darin
> >
> > -------------- Original message from richard ball : --------------
> >
> > > hi
> > > i'm new to the group so forgive me if this has been
> > > covered before
> > > i've bought a briggs etek motor for my ev project
> > > the terminals are not marked + or -
> > > does this mean the etek will run in either direction
> > > or is there a rotation direction of preference ?
> > > sorry if this is a daft question but i'm just starting
> > > to learn about evs in general
> > > regards
> > > richard
> > > location uk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW
> > Yahoo!
> > > Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
>
>
> * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4ACE1.1BE293D7"
> Subject: RE: etek motor
> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:47:10 -0500
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> X-MS-Has-Attach:
> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Thread-Topic: etek motor
> Thread-Index: AcSs14vjToiAyOBhQlOFTTLvL84muwABX1E+
> From: "Brown, Jay--
>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EV Grin
To: EV-List-Post <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Well I got a real case of the EV grin today, it was
ride share day at work. They sent out flyers saying
come see the van-pools, learn about carpooling and see
fellow employees alternative fuel vehicles. I said
hey, what about my Electrica, so I called up the ride
share office. He told me they were full and didn’t
need another hybrid car. When I informed them that it
was an electric car and didn’t use any gas they
decided I could bring the car after all. Now mind you,
we’re talking a 1980 Dodge Omni 024 with the original
paint here. It’s not exactly pretty. I pulled up a
little late and parked it at the end of the line.
There was a Prius, a Insight, a Civic hybrid and a
Rav4 EV. I was amazed at the interest my little
Electrica drew. I was talking non-stop for about two
hours about range, batteries, charging, top speed and
so on to people who were amazed to find out the car
was sold new as an electric in 1980. I ended up
getting several e-mail addresses to send links to
about converting EV’s and EV info in general.
Next time around I think I’ll put together some
handouts. I can’t wait to do it again. It was a blast.
It seemed to me at least that there was as much
interest shown in my BEV than in all three of the
hybrids put together. All in all a fun extended lunch,
though they did stiff me as far as the ride share
t-shirts go.
TiM
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:54:29 -0600
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Amps and torque (was: Woodburn 2004, My response to Rudman)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
The more amps you can force into the motor, the more torque it will produce.
I've said this several times before. (Several times directly to Rich.) The
theory is not that difficult.
>>> Here is how it works <<<
1) The series-wound motor increases the field strength with increasing
amperage until you saturate the iron in the core of the windings. Increases
in amperage above the saturation point will only make tiny increases in (B)
field strength.
2) The torque on the armature is proportional to the armature current times
the field strength. (No saturation term here.) As you ramp up the armature
current, the torque ramps right up with it. (Lorentz force.)
3) Before the field saturates, both the field strength and the armature
current ramp together, causing a motor torque that is close to the square
of the input current. After the field iron saturates, the torque continues
to rise, but only in direct proportion to the current. This is because the
field is no longer rising with current, but the Lorentz force on the
armature is continuing to increase.
Until you blow something up, a series-wound motor will make more torque
with every extra amp you cram into it.
>>>> Real World Example <<<
I routinely cram 1500 amps into each of my 6.7 inch L91 motors. When I
push much more, the tire breaks loose. When I push less, the bike gets
slower 60 ft times.
You can push a lot more than 1300 amps into the motors in the Postal Van.
Whether the drive train will take it is another story. :^)
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:04:37 -0600
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Woodburn 2004, My response to Rudman
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
>
>Lets keep a couple things straight... Ot's motors are don't have stone
>groves in them....Yours do.
> If your motors could stand the amps of course they would make more
>torque.
> We found they could not. And backed off. Did you want me to vaporize
>them??? Oh OK that's your job, I just have to fix them.
> Also lets get it clear the I Have seen your back motors suck up 2000 motor
>amps. They arc like hell. The left side arcs Green the right side Arcs Blue.
>The Gas guys at Bremerton came over and warned me about it. It was that bad.
>You Blew them off, I took notes....
>So much for 2000 amps.
>And lets keep the north and and the South end of my Body out of this thread.
Limit the motor voltage, not the motor amperage.
You can really pour the amps into a slow turning motor that is not
seeing a lot of voltage without any arcing whatsoever. Arcing begins when
the RPM and the voltage are high along with high current.
You can effectively prevent the arcing without sacrificing the
bottom-end torque by simply limiting the motor voltage.
When the motor hits the voltage limit, the current will naturally
taper off. This prevents the arcing. Just start with a reasonable voltage,
say 190 volts, and bump up by about ten volts each run until you see the
evidence of arcing. Bump down a few volts and your arcing worries are over.
Works like a champ.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Amps and torque (was: Woodburn 2004, My response to Rudman)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:29:22 -0700
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When we increased the current in 200 amp steps, the launch G's increased
until we reached 1400 amps. At 1400 amps, the motors made about 5% more
torque than at 1200 amps and the motors made a really rude smell. It was not
the hot varnish smell of hot field or hot armature, but more of a copper and
graphite smell. When we backed off to 1300 amps, the launch G's were the
same as at 1400 amps but the smell was barely noticeable.
Our theory was that the commutator was protesting the big amps because of
the stone pits and chipped brushes.
I agree that the magnetics can take considerably more current. The 1300 amp
current setting was to keep the commutator and brushes alive while we were
testing the drive balance. Rich had a "senior moment" and forgot to set the
current limit up to 2000 amps for the Woodburn race.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:54 PM
Subject: Amps and torque (was: Woodburn 2004, My response to Rudman)
> You can push a lot more than 1300 amps into the motors in the Postal Van.
> Whether the drive train will take it is another story. :^)
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: wattsinthebox runs on own power
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:36:22 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Would it be easy to add another identical motor to the sidecar wheel?
If he had a series/single/parallel switch, he could have three speeds. One
(series) would be lower and one (parallel) would be higher than the single
gear he presently has.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 6:12 PM
Subject: wattsinthebox runs on own power
> Its been a year since I took this image
> http://geocities.com/brucedp/images/wattsinthebox030913-10.jpg
>
> Now,
> Terry Wilson EAA Historian has driven his EV project,
> wattsinthebox, an Electric motorcycle with a sidecar,
> on city streets under its own power.
>
> Being a direct drive, the slow acceleration he mentions
> is to be expected. Terry is an EV newbie and should be
> congratulated! :-)
> (send email directly as he is not on the EV List)
>
> The EV will be at the Silicon Valley Rally this Saturday
> 10am-4pm at Palo Alto High School (Embarcadero and El
> Camino Real, Palo Alto, CA)
>
>
>
> -[edited]
> From: "terry wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: wattsinthebox runs
> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:26:13 -0700
>
> Well, after an initial failure, my
> sidehack is running. Turns out the 300 amp, 72
> volt Curtis doesn't work. However, the 96 volt
> 200 amp Curtis does! It's slow acceleration from
> dead stop but then picks up quickly! It's hard
> to turn but tracks straight nicely.
>
> Bill Palmer is going to trailer "wattsinthebox"
> to the Rally
> [...]
> See you at the Rally Saturday,
> T.W.
> -
>
>
>
>
> =====
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
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Subject: Re: EVLN(Citroen start-stop device also in so-called hybrids)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:54:56 +0200
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Schacherl Jens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList \(E-Mail\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello Richard,
AFAIK the Citroen Berlingo electrique Van is available in the UK:
http://www.carpages.co.uk/citroen/citroen_berlingo_electrique_van_part_1_25_07_03.asp?switched=on&echo=810282020
http://drivelectric.com/faq_answer_about_Berlingo.htm
I also suggest you join the "electriccarsUK" yahoo group, and take a look at
http://www.evuk.co.uk if you haven't already.
The Reva is also available in the UK though it's not exactly a van ;-)
http://www.goingreen.co.uk .
At Ebay Germany, used Fiat/Peugeot/Mercedes vans appear occasionally, but of course
they're all LHD (and have dead batteries, mostly).
Best regards, Jens
*****************************
From: richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu Oct 7, 2004 4:32 pm
Subject: Re: EVLN(Citroen start-stop device also in so-called hybrids)
ADVERTISEMENT
this would be a great help to our company if it wasn't
5000miles away from our HQ in Abergavenny South Wales
oh and of course the UK government doesn't rate US
vehicles as safe to use on our roads unless they are
major imports or they pass stringent single vehicle
type aproval tests which most us built vehicles dont
nice thought though
thanks
richard
--- Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Would this
>
> http://evi-usa.com/aboutus.htm
>
> be of any help to your company?
>
> --- richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > this problem with big car makers is really anoying
> > the company i work for runs lpg vans mostly on
> trips
> > less than 100 miles per day
> > we would love to use electric vehicles and are
> willing
> > to pay through the nose for them but they are
> simply
> > not available
> > as an iso 14000(environmental acreditation )
> company
> > it makes our blood boil
> > we are missing out on a great marketing and kudos
> > device despite being willing to pay extra for it
> over
> > the cost of conventional vehicles
> >
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 03:23:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Air Car per charge Analysis
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From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Perhaps it's just an imperfect translation, or perhaps I'm
misunderstanding something. But it seems to me that when they say they
are trying to "determine an order of magnitude of the autonomy of MDI
compressed-air vehicles", and then come up with a range of 117 and 146
km, what they're actually saying is that they figure the car will go
somewhere between 11.7 km and 1460 km on a charge.
Isn't that what an order of magnitude means? A power of ten?
On Thursday, October 7, 2004, at 05:35 AM, Mark Hanson wrote:
> The report from their website looks like a 70 mile range per charge,
> but the efficiencies appear to be low. If they're trying to fight the
> laws of physics like Fool Cells, then the result will be nothing. At
> the bottom it says that the prototype has yet to work. That's weird,
> are they lying in their advertisements? They claim they can get
> overall efficiencies of 50% with a 3 stage expansion air motor and a 2
> stage heat exchanger to recover the compression and expansion
> thermodynamic losses. The electricity efficiency used per charge would
> have to be better than battery electrics to make air cars viable. I
> guess we need some independent analysis on this like was done by the U
> of Wash study on Fool Cells.
>
> http://www.theaircar.com/Mines_reports.html
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
From: "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New Batteries Needed
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:40:19 -0400
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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If you are using wet cells like the T-105 or T-135 Trojans, you might want
to check East Penn as well. Their 8C16 is a little taller at 14inches, but
it also has 335 amp hours (3 x the T-105). Trojans are found in most of your
golf carts and motor homes, where as East Penn seems to be standard in a lot
of industrial applications.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Nearing completion questions
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:25:52 -0600
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 7:27 PM
Subject: Nearing completion questions
> Hi everyone,
>
> It's getting so close I can almost taste it! The 200sx is nearing the
> driving point (although still quite a bit to do). I have a few questions:
>
> 1) Should the DC/DC be turned off during charging with a PFC-20?
what is your voltage and what kind of dc to dc. Is the car going to be used
often or left to set , if left to set then some why to trun it off so it
dosn't drain down the batteries.
If so,
> I'm thinking of using a relay to switch it off.
> 1.b) Should it be turned off when the vehicle is not in use (similar to
> how an alternator is configured, i.e. charges the 12V battery when
> running, and, well...doesn't charge it when it's not running :) )?
This might be best for the 12v battery as the constant charging isn't good ,
. I just got a dc to dc converter for my truck and set it up with a extra e
meter I have ( one that was tosted and repaired , now my spare) . I come
across a lot of batteries so now I can charge them while I drive around ,
then trun off the dc to dc , drain them down with the car light or other
load and watch how they do on my "spare" e meter. I can then tell the ah of
the "lost" battey . I got the e meter on the 12v battery idea for one of
John Wayland's . post .
>
> Now some fun questions:
> 5) With a Z1K, 144V of Orbitals, and a Prestolite MTC-4001, how much
> rubber do you think I'll be able to lay?
The other day I was working with my EV friend tom and we got everthing ready
for the test ride , I took off very slow , listing and feeling evething the
car was saying and before it had to yell I heard it say "unplug me" , I
think I learned somthing that day , with out braking anything .
Enough to make a good picture
> on my final poster for the Senior Design project I'm using this for?
How about some video for EVTV, I hear they are looking for that kind of
stuff.
Steve Clunn www.grassrootsev.com
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: EV Grin
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:50:39 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Good work. We all love our EV's and there is nothing more fun then having
and interested audience :-)
>From: TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: EV-List-Post <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: EV Grin
>Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Well I got a real case of the EV grin today, it was
>ride share day at work. They sent out flyers saying
>come see the van-pools, learn about carpooling and see
>fellow employees alternative fuel vehicles. I said
>hey, what about my Electrica, so I called up the ride
>share office. He told me they were full and didn’t
>need another hybrid car. When I informed them that it
>was an electric car and didn’t use any gas they
>decided I could bring the car after all. Now mind you,
>we’re talking a 1980 Dodge Omni 024 with the original
>paint here. It’s not exactly pretty. I pulled up a
>little late and parked it at the end of the line.
>There was a Prius, a Insight, a Civic hybrid and a
>Rav4 EV. I was amazed at the interest my little
>Electrica drew. I was talking non-stop for about two
>hours about range, batteries, charging, top speed and
>so on to people who were amazed to find out the car
>was sold new as an electric in 1980. I ended up
>getting several e-mail addresses to send links to
>about converting EV’s and EV info in general.
> Next time around I think I’ll put together some
>handouts. I can’t wait to do it again. It was a blast.
>It seemed to me at least that there was as much
>interest shown in my BEV than in all three of the
>hybrids put together. All in all a fun extended lunch,
>though they did stiff me as far as the ride share
>t-shirts go.
>
>TiM
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:13:55 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: FW: New Batteries Needed
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Careful there Ray,
The 105 in T-105 is a rough estimation of how many minutes you can expect
to get at 75 amps. The T-105 is rated at a 20hr rate of 225AH.
Still though, your point was the East-Penn's are higher capacity and they
do appear to be. Even the T-145 (145 min @ 75A) is only rated for 244AH.
How heavy are the E-P's and how much do they cost.
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Raymond Knight
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 7:40 AM
> To: EV List
> Subject: Re: New Batteries Needed
>
>
> If you are using wet cells like the T-105 or T-135 Trojans, you might want
> to check East Penn as well. Their 8C16 is a little taller at 14inches, but
> it also has 335 amp hours (3 x the T-105). Trojans are found in most of
> your
> golf carts and motor homes, where as East Penn seems to be standard in a
> lot
> of industrial applications.
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:51:58 -0700
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Li-Ion Conference - December 04 - Is ANY ONE GOING ??
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have to admit that the reason I posted the facts on this conference,
is curiosity, and jealousy. Curiosity - for I would like to know what
is going on in the industry, and jealousy, for I can not afford to
attend such conferences...my self..
But... I really thought that at least ONE or TWO on the EVDiscussion
list engineer types, would be attending ???
Is there no one ???
Lithium Mobile Power 2004
Advances in Lithium Battery Technologies for MOBILE Applications
Lithium Sulfur . Lithium Ion . Lithium Polymer
December 6-7, 2004 Fontainebleau Hilton . Miami Beach FL
www.knowledgefoundation.com
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Steven Tweed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED] '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Todd PC30
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:01:43 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="ISO-8859-1"
Does anyone have a wiring diagram or manual for a Todd PC30 DC/DC converter?
Thanks
Steve
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Steven Tweed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Li-Ion Conference - December 04 - Is ANY ONE GOING ??
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:02:49 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="ISO-8859-1"
I am planning on attending.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Lough
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Sent: 10/8/2004 8:51 AM
Subject: Li-Ion Conference - December 04 - Is ANY ONE GOING ??
I have to admit that the reason I posted the facts on this conference,
is curiosity, and jealousy. Curiosity - for I would like to know what
is going on in the industry, and jealousy, for I can not afford to
attend such conferences...my self..
But... I really thought that at least ONE or TWO on the EVDiscussion
list engineer types, would be attending ???
Is there no one ???
Lithium Mobile Power 2004
Advances in Lithium Battery Technologies for MOBILE Applications
Lithium Sulfur . Lithium Ion . Lithium Polymer
December 6-7, 2004 Fontainebleau Hilton . Miami Beach FL
www.knowledgefoundation.com
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: EVLN(Citroen start-stop device also in so-called hybrids)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Nicads! Nasty
But I still want one.
--- Schacherl Jens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Richard,
>
> AFAIK the Citroen Berlingo electrique Van is available in the UK:
>
http://www.carpages.co.uk/citroen/citroen_berlingo_electrique_van_part_1_25_07_03.asp?switched=on&echo=810282020
> http://drivelectric.com/faq_answer_about_Berlingo.htm
>
> I also suggest you join the "electriccarsUK" yahoo group, and take a look at
> http://www.evuk.co.uk if you haven't already.
> The Reva is also available in the UK though it's not exactly a van ;-)
> http://www.goingreen.co.uk .
>
> At Ebay Germany, used Fiat/Peugeot/Mercedes vans appear occasionally, but of course
> they're all LHD (and have dead batteries, mostly).
>
> Best regards, Jens
>
>
>
> *****************************
> From: richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu Oct 7, 2004 4:32 pm
> Subject: Re: EVLN(Citroen start-stop device also in so-called hybrids)
>
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> this would be a great help to our company if it wasn't
> 5000miles away from our HQ in Abergavenny South Wales
> oh and of course the UK government doesn't rate US
> vehicles as safe to use on our roads unless they are
> major imports or they pass stringent single vehicle
> type aproval tests which most us built vehicles dont
> nice thought though
> thanks
> richard
>
> --- Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Would this
> >
> > http://evi-usa.com/aboutus.htm
> >
> > be of any help to your company?
> >
> > --- richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > this problem with big car makers is really anoying
> > > the company i work for runs lpg vans mostly on
> > trips
> > > less than 100 miles per day
> > > we would love to use electric vehicles and are
> > willing
> > > to pay through the nose for them but they are
> > simply
> > > not available
> > > as an iso 14000(environmental acreditation )
> > company
> > > it makes our blood boil
> > > we are missing out on a great marketing and kudos
> > > device despite being willing to pay extra for it
> > over
> > > the cost of conventional vehicles
> > >
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:26:00 -0400
Subject: Run Silent, Run Clean; New (Postal Service) Vehicles Powered by
Amps, Not Oil
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Ev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
RUN SILENT, RUN CLEAN
New Vehicles Powered by Amps, Not Oil
[Note: These are two-ton delivery trucks built by Solectria]
Eight new noiseless, zero-emission electric delivery trucks have joined the
USPS fleet in the New York Metro Area and will spark improvement in the
local environment.
The vehicles ‹ based in Hunts Point and Mott Haven, Bronx ‹ will replace
noisier, fuel-consuming diesel trucks used to transport mail and bulk
packages from distribution plants and Post Offices.
New York Metro Area V.P. David Solomon joined Bronx Borough President Adolfo
Carrion and other community leaders to unveil the trucks at Hunts Point Post
Office.
³These trucks are part of the future of the working Bronx,² said Carrion.
³They will certainly contribute to improving air quality in these
neighborhoods.²
The trucks can travel 40 miles on a complete charge and have a top speed of
60 mph.
Hunts Point Customer Services Manager Anthony Kienle likes the vehicle¹s low
environmental impact. ³They¹re so much less noisy. And there are no fumes
inside or outside the truck.²
That¹s a good thing for neighborhood children who suffer from asthma.
³They¹re also great money savers,² said Area Environmental Compliance
Manager Rick Paprocki. ³With fuel costs rising, there will be significant
savings.² Each one-cent increase in the price of gas costs USPS about $1
million, Paprocki noted.
http://liteblue.usps.gov/news/link/2004oct07_1.htm
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC
http://www.evadc.org
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Subject: RE: Air Car per charge Analysis
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:48:17 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Doug Weathers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Perhaps it's just an imperfect translation, or perhaps I'm
> misunderstanding something. But it seems to me that when
> they say they
> are trying to "determine an order of magnitude of the autonomy of MDI
> compressed-air vehicles", and then come up with a range of
> 117 and 146
> km, what they're actually saying is that they figure the car will go
> somewhere between 11.7 km and 1460 km on a charge.
>
> Isn't that what an order of magnitude means? A power of ten?
I think in this case the translation is imperfect. I suspect "order of
magnitude" should have translated to "estimate".
Cheers,
Roger.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Woodburn 2004, My response to Rudman
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:52:55 -0700
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Thanks for the tip Bill.
I know that!!! and have for years.
The backs of the Gp motors were set to unlimited volts(425) in series mode.
Since we had 240 worth of batteries..... and the motors are 120 volt
motors.... At the very most we can only impress 120 volts across them in
series mode.....and that's a Lot less than your 190 volts recomendation.
So... your settings would not have made a bit of difference.
We had the front single motor limited to 150 volts to help reduce arcing. We
were using 170 volts... as recomended by Ot. It helped, but limted our high
RPM torque. Safe is nice.... I want power!
I really could not check out the front motor at 2000 amps since I was not
going to break the whimpy front shafts that we had at the time.
The intention was to jump back up in voltage after the front brushes
reseated from the mid summers brush change out. I wanted to seak up on the
volts and amps until we had some data that arcing was imment. We never got
that far in testing... My whole plan was to get the front motor to RPM like
heck, So we could stay in 2nd gear longer, and keep the front tires just
under the slip limits. Using 3rd gear solved this issue, but Rod over
torqued the tranny and blew 3rd and a good chunk of the tranny.
The Backs first had some stone Damage from the LasVegas trip and
testing. We limit the motor voltages in parallel mode, but not the amps.
Clearly the Back motors on GP have a sever arcing issue with low RPM and Big
amps. Why... Is still in debate. I think the Comms need profesional turning,
and a really nice breakin on my dyno. I also suspect that there is too much
initial timing, and too many amps. But the flip side is under Parallel mode
they are Darn sweet. As Rod says he has never had a motor set pull harder at
the far end than at the slow end of the track.
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: Woodburn 2004, My response to Rudman
>
> >
> >
> >Lets keep a couple things straight... Ot's motors are don't have stone
> >groves in them....Yours do.
> > If your motors could stand the amps of course they would make more
> >torque.
> > We found they could not. And backed off. Did you want me to vaporize
> >them??? Oh OK that's your job, I just have to fix them.
> > Also lets get it clear the I Have seen your back motors suck up 2000
motor
> >amps. They arc like hell. The left side arcs Green the right side Arcs
Blue.
> >The Gas guys at Bremerton came over and warned me about it. It was that
bad.
> >You Blew them off, I took notes....
> >So much for 2000 amps.
> >And lets keep the north and and the South end of my Body out of this
thread.
>
>
> Limit the motor voltage, not the motor amperage.
>
> You can really pour the amps into a slow turning motor that is
not
> seeing a lot of voltage without any arcing whatsoever. Arcing begins when
> the RPM and the voltage are high along with high current.
>
> You can effectively prevent the arcing without sacrificing the
> bottom-end torque by simply limiting the motor voltage.
>
> When the motor hits the voltage limit, the current will naturally
> taper off. This prevents the arcing. Just start with a reasonable voltage,
> say 190 volts, and bump up by about ten volts each run until you see the
> evidence of arcing. Bump down a few volts and your arcing worries are
over.
>
> Works like a champ.
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Amps and torque (was: Woodburn 2004, My response to Rudman)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:12:58 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
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----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:54 PM
Subject: Amps and torque (was: Woodburn 2004, My response to Rudman)
> The more amps you can force into the motor, the more torque it will
produce.
> Until you blow something up, a series-wound motor will make more torque
> with every extra amp you cram into it.
>
> >>>> Real World Example <<<
>
> I routinely cram 1500 amps into each of my 6.7 inch L91 motors. When I
> push much more, the tire breaks loose. When I push less, the bike gets
> slower 60 ft times.
>
> You can push a lot more than 1300 amps into the motors in the Postal Van.
> Whether the drive train will take it is another story. :^)
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
Like Duhh! Bill
IF you can force the amps. Yup old core motor concepts.
More like What the motor can take, Or how much will it suck.
Any of your motors or the motors on GP, Advanced DC 6.7s, 8s, and 9
inchers... Will move the amps if you have enough volts to force the issue.
The basic argument is if they are arcing.... your timing is Screwed to the
tune of 15 to 20 Deg off of where it should be. The commutation point has
climbed out from under the Brush face... and that's where you can see the
arcs!!
So... the current is not flowing in the segments that are in the proper
location with respect to the pole face field coils. So... Yea you get
amps... but at the wrong place to make the most forces that make useable
torque. Hence Big amps Not as much torque as you Could be making. And That
is at the expense of damage to brush faces and carbon tracked Comm Bar
Segements. Both of wich rob from the Power that you could be making.
Just a thin white line just barley leaving the trailing brush face. Any more
and you are loosing hp and Damaging your motors. Looking at a torque plot
you can map the drop in Ftlbs to Amps ratio.
The art of motor design is keeping the arcs controlled, and not making them
in the first place. That's the design behind Interpoles, compensating
windings and pole face widings. All of this is Circa 1920 to 1950s vintage
motor design.
We Nedra racers... don't have very advanced motors, and we just Fog the
amps to them and scrape up the damage, and laugh. There are better ways to
push motors, than arcing the Snot out of them.
Get stickier tires....And break your brushes in better, Clean the slots
after every run, and Blow the crap out often. And... every run your brushes
LOOSE thier breakin surface trim....You figure out how to restore it.
--- End Message ---
