EV Digest 3885
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: FCEV are EV's too
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Liquid Hydrogen (was:other side of the coin.....)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Scooter battery balancer ( Long, Data, Data)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: ETEK Motor Info
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: ETEK Motor Info
by "MYLES ANTHONY TWETE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Solectra Question
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) lose wire
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Gel Cel Etiquette
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) ETEK Motor Info
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) 3rd clutch option
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: ETEK Motor Info
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
by "David McAlister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Clutchless
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Gel Cel Etiquette
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Big trucks
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery at Zero volts?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Battery Box Gauge
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: ETEK Motor Info
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Battery Strings
by Tom Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Easy 300VDC
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone given any thought to a hydraulic pump/motor setup? Open a valve
and let the pressurized fluid into a hydraulic motor and control speed that
way? Sort of a primitive Dynaflow, I guess.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "spidercats" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
I have been thinking along the lines of a scooter EV. Like you I thought
of transmission but my sloution is going thru the CV system attached to
the rear wheel blocks of most scooters. Otherwise Enfield India do
split motor / transmission units which are good for 60 - 80 mph
depending on the sprocket match up.
Sniper8052
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ALLLLRIght!!!
A hybrid that can get with it.
And it's a Ford!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
> I got the CVT and can't believe the performance!I
> punched the thing at 60 and left my wife following me
> in the BMW in the dust. I'll scan the specs and post
> them to my site.
>
> Gadget
>
>
> --- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Gadget..
> > What kind of trannsmissions to they offer??
> > I have heard Auto and CVT... any full
> > manuals?
> > I would love to have one... but.....I have to con my
> > Redhead out of her 3.8
> > liter minivan.
> > She of course needs a Auto tranny.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > We just double the pack size , put a plug on
> > the
> > > > charge controller and
> > > > turn off the breaker to the fuel cell. Once in a
> > > > while, when we need to
> > > > go on a long trip we start the fuel-cell on
> > board
> > > > generator!
> > >
> > >
> > > I just bought an Escape hybrid to today with that
> > in
> > > mind. of course I will let my wife drive the thing
> > for
> > > a while before I start playing with it. I have my
> > > plate full with some other ev projects first. I
> > was
> > > really fun driving the thing around on the
> > > residential streets, it was in full ev mode for at
> > > least a mile before the motor kicked back on.
> > >
> > > If anyone in the Los Angeles area is looking for
> > an
> > > Escape hybrid I know of a dealer here who has a
> > lot
> > > full of them. I drove in today just to look and he
> > had
> > > exactly what we wanted so we drove it home,
> > >
> > > Gadget
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you need to use a tranny on your bike I think the
best solution is the harley trans. It has a clutch
attached which is driven by a chain or belt. you can
adjust this primary ratio with the drive sprocket on
your motor.
My BMW is whicked in first gear, but I usualy use
third to start and wish I had three more to keep going
with. it will do 60 but the torque has really fallen
off by then.
For my mext bike I will be using the harley style
trans, an older four speed box, and I will be changing
the primary ratio so that my rpms will be at about 2
grand at highway speeds.
Gadget
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning
> to do an EV
> motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate
> transmission.
>
> Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with
> the engine, with
> shared engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with
> an electric motor
> this isn't really an option, as you'd have to
> separate the transmission
> from the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
>
> Factors:
>
> 1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
> 2) Price
> 3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of
> the bike (preferably
> < 18")
> 4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
> 5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds
> (gears) should be enough
>
> Options:
>
> Harley transmission
> BSA / Triumph transmission
> Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
> Custom
> Something else
>
>
> A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to
> acquire, though due to
> the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one.
> A new one is $900
> - $3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka
> "preunit") tend to be
> cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they
> /appear/
> considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's
> clones. I've looked at
> the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal
> of cutting and
> modifying would be necessary. I'm open to
> suggestions for other
> small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at
> the overdrive units
> found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the
> ration difference is
> really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case"
> from a 4wd might be an
> option.
>
> I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type
> transmission, though
> cost and availability is a concern.
>
> I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle"
> transmission. If there's
> a small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits
> the bill (and the
> frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
>
> Anyone out there have any suggestions?
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Whoops Bill if you oxidize the Ch4.. you a lot more from the Carbon
burning than a single H.
But in FC it's dumped over board.
The process they use to make hydrogen from methane (CH4) releases
the carbon as CO2. In theory, you could not make CO2, but that would reduce
the efficiency of the process even more.
The hybrid car burns half as much CH4 per mile (at least) than the
hydrogen fool cell car. This means 1/2 the CO2 released per mile driven.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:50 AM 10/28/2004, you wrote:
The guys in the lab coats sure didn't appreciate you sneaking up and
popping a paper bag behind them :-)
Really? What a joker. "Wisenheimer" so it's deserved.
It's a fact.
This was about 18 years ago. NIST was characterizing slush
hydrogen for a potential use in NASA spacecraft. Orie Voth and Rollie
Gardene were making about 30 liters of slush hydrogen in a glass dewar in a
large, explosion resistant, hydrogen safe lab. I came up behind them with a
paper bag full of air. Orie saw me, but Rollie didn't. Orie stayed poker
faced and didn't tip off Rollie. When I popped the bag, Rollie threw
himself face first on the floor.
When I was first working with liquid hydrogen, I was as nervous as
Rollie, perhaps more so. I mentioned my stress level to my boss, an old
hand with LH2. His advice to me was, "Once your butt cheeks loosen up a
bit, you'll find that liquid hydrogen is a pretty nice cryogen."
Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
I'm not sure everyone realizes the difference between when it burns, and
when it explodes. H2 will burn at an even wider concentration range, but
detonates over most of the range.
Also, last I paid attention, foolcell powered cars are still hybrid; they
still require a battery pack for load leveling. O.K., it could be ultra
caps as well, but it needs something. A shame, though. Design a real
good electric car, but replace most of the batteries with a fuel cell and
related support equipment.
Hey Bill, remember about 15 or so years ago when we saw _solid_ hydrogen?
The guys in the lab coats sure didn't appreciate you sneaking up and
popping a paper bag behind them :-)
- Steven Ciciora
Transfilling H2 is a tricky business.
It is not quite the same as CNG, and isn't remotely like LNG.
You have to be careful not to overheat the tank being filled. You also
have to be very careful not to fill an "empty" tank with air in it.
Sparks are an issue as the ignition temperature for H2 is just a few
hundred degrees C. The explosive limits are very board, as I recall they
are something like 2% to 95%. This means almost any mixture with air will
explode if confined. Also, the flame is invisible in daylight.
The good thing about hydrogen is that it is REALLY buoyant. If you
release
it outdoors, it goes straight up and is gone immediately.
The only compact way to store it in a vehicle is as a liquid. Not
terribly
convenient to transfer.
Why not simply leave it as LNG and use it in a hybrid car that will go
twice as far?
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I left my wife's electric bike on charge for 5 years. Her batteries are the
best we have. It is a Currie conversion with the fast charger. Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Uzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Scooter battery balancer ( Long, Data, Data)
Most consumer-grade chargers provide essentially worthless indicators of
the battery's actual state of charge.
ok, I keep hearing this, but I'm stuck with the 3amp charger that came
with my
HCF 707, for the time being (sure, I'd love to have one of Rudman's
chargers -
who wouldn't?)
this charger simply goes from an orange LED to green LED when its
"finished"
charging... I often let it sit for about an hour after its switched to
green, but
should I be letting it go for a while longer on a more regular basis?
will I get SOME semblance of balancing and realistic finishing charge this
way,
or am I likely to boil my batts if I'm not careful?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It'll work at anywhere between 3 to 4.5 to one. Higher to climb. Lower for
faster but it won't quite do both well. Without high voltage. Lawrence
Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
ive given up on the transmission idea and just conected my etek to the
rear wheel by a bit of chain
so far so good
reb
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Another thought to consider is if you keep the voltage up you don't need a
trannsmission if you gear it right. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "spidercats"
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with
shared
engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor this
isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission from
the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably
<
18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be
enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900 -
$3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference is
really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might be an
option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's a
small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the
frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
I have been thinking along the lines of a scooter EV. Like you I thought
of transmission but my sloution is going thru the CV system attached to
the rear wheel blocks of most scooters. Otherwise Enfield India do split
motor / transmission units which are good for 60 - 80 mph depending on
the
sprocket match up.
Sniper8052
Regards
Richard
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't worry. The ETEK will be back. The patent runs out soon. As soon as
that happens BINGO. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 8:44 PM
Subject: ETEK Motor Info
Does anyone on this list have experience and/or data on the Etek Motor
at 72VDC? Are they still in production? I have seen references on a few
sites about not being in production. If these aren't commonly available
anymore, what would be a good comparable motor other than the PERM motor
that was discussed a few days back?
I would like to use the Etek in an EM application, but was concerned
about running it at 72VDC and the availability.
Thanks!
--
Shawn M. Waggoner
www.floridaeaa.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will that include Ni Cad. Can that be incorporated into the PFC's yet?
Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
Victor..
My high amp customer... Is NOT lead Acid.
He wants more that I can bring him.
He is NOT you. Or most of my other customers.
The charger WILL be flexable... I could charge your Ev at 8 amps...
The charger will need no further hardware efforts to cover just about any
voltage and charge curves.
That's what I Promised my Client...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First, I don't have experience with my ETEK at 72v, but only 36v for my electric boat:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html
But, here's something to consider:
The ETEK motor has only something like 32milli-ohms of resistance. Thus, the stall
current at 48v computes to be about 1500amps. So at 72v, the ETEK stall current would
be about 2250amps. While inductance, series resistance and of course motor speed help
to reduce the stress on the controller, it's something to consider.
-Myles Twete, Portland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, it is a little confusing. Check out
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml and look for UMOC or the
DMOC controllers.
Don
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: October 28, 2004 6:48 PM
To: EVlist
Subject: Solectra Question
I caught the comment about the solectra ac being a deal, and the motor is!
what I couldn't find was how much does the controller cost? anyone?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a little time this morning to hook up MY 300v 1k controller which will
replace the old dcp t rex . It was half way hooked up form before the
storms , I didn't have much time but was thinking about at least do somthing
on it ,so I though I'd mount the hair ball , while moving things around .
the 2 small 18 gage wires that go from each side of the battery + contactor
which the old dcp also used
were flopping around and one brushed up on the m- . and there's a flash ,
the stripped away wire is gone and some smoke marks , I stopped , and you
know the feeling , > I hate that feeling!
My first thought was This things not hooked up how can this be *8-o, but
then I remembered I'd hooked the batteries back up to charge them , I hadn't
disconected them before starting ,
Then I remember Johns story , It seems I didn't learn a thing form it , I
didn't do anything more , just left for work, guess I did enough for that
day, I got a feeling its going to be ok. I;ll know tommorw But what happen
to Johns part 3?
Steve clunn
what a dangerest web we weave , when dangling wires we let proceed .
I also hadn't unpluged the e meter , ,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
About a half volt lower acceptance voltage. The high acceptance voltage
causes small gas bubbles in the gel that increase the internal resistance of
the cells. The Optimas let the gas escape but the gel does not.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "michael bearden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: Gel Cel Etiquette
> I am very nearly ready to return the Gogomobil to service as my
> cross-town commute-mobile (and laugh-getter). I am using 4 Optima
> buddy-pairs to power it, and I have 2 electric wheelchair/scooter gel
> cells that I want to use for the 12v power. As I have no real experience
> with gel cells, I have questions (and the EVDL ALWAYS has answers!)
> I am planning on using a 12v charger to begin with ('til I find a
> suitable 48v DC/DC) and a Rudman reg on each battery. They will also be
> run as a buddy-pair as they fit so nicely in the remaining space in the
> rear battery compartment..
> What do I need to do differently in their care and charging from the
> Optimas?
> Thank you-
> Michael B.
>
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone on this list have experience and/or data on the Etek Motor
at 72VDC? Are they still in production? I have seen references on a few
sites about not being in production. If these aren't commonly available
anymore, what would be a good comparable motor other than the PERM motor
that was discussed a few days back?
I would like to use the Etek in a EM application, but was concerned
about running it at 72VDC and the availability.
Thanks!
--
Shawn M. Waggoner
www.floridaeaa.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe we shouldn't be thinking clutch or not and shift to EVclutch or
ICE clutch.
ICE are big with lots of mass cause it helps the ICE be more like an
electric motor.
EV needs light, small dia, high torque.
Are there any clutches on lightweight flywheels, like the tilton racing
clutch, that we can retrofit.
Feroomagnetic clutches? eletromagnetic industrial clutches?
how about a band clutch and a planatery gear set, we could then put a
10K rpm AC on a stock tranny :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, how could users who the charger doesn't know already quickly
program their particular charge profile needs?
How about a PFC-Program card they carry arround...
It might be a piece of plastic with hard coded jumpers that when
inserted are read as critical settings, max voltage, max current, etc...
It could me a more high tech solution like any one of many data on
a card solutions...
How about a USB sollution, USB "Thumb drives" are cheap and universally
compatible with computers everywhere... Use a PFC profile program on
any pc to create a Thumb_Drive:/PFCsetup.txt file with all the settings.
Then get the PFC/brain to read this file and load up the settings, could
even log the charge progress back to that drive!
L8r
Ryan
ps. Just trying to figure out how to charge my scooter in 10 seconds
flat (Grin). But seriousely, With a larger Li-ion pack in my car I
may someday want to Charge up in 88 minutes (which is fast).
Here's my datapoint from cycle 21, multiply by up to 6000 cells:
First a single cell, my scooter @100, motorcycle @600, car @6000 cells.
- single - Discharge:767mAh:22 Charge:772mAh:88(1.3 hours) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- * 100 - Discharge:77 Ah :22 Charge:77 Ah :60 Amps/8 series [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- * 600 - Discharge:460Ah :22 Charge:463Ah :360Amps/10series [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- * 6000 - Discharge:4600Ah:22 Charge:4630Ah:3600Amps/100s [EMAIL PROTECTED]
anyway... nevermind my nonsense... carry on...
Rich Rudman wrote:
Clearly I am still assembleing the needed gear, and brains and firmware.
Granny CAN charge with it... IF it is already programmed for her use.
Like it's ready for a fleet of Sparrows.... or any 156 volt AGM PbLa
pack......Right now!
Sorry I could not resist
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your math may be right but probably real life curves is not linear, PERM 132
(24-72V) data show a 1000A stall current on a 25milli-ohms resistance, so
with higher resistance, Etek should be less.
Because of EMF, stall current should be with lower voltage than max one.
There are few Etek/Alltrax-scooter at 60/72V and i know one motorbike. There
is minimal issue at 60V if you keep max current far lower than original
spec. and monitor temperature but at 72V you are definately out of spec.
You are going to change brushes often and absolutely need a controller which
deal with low inductance.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "MYLES ANTHONY TWETE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: ETEK Motor Info
> First, I don't have experience with my ETEK at 72v, but only 36v for my
electric boat:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html
>
> But, here's something to consider:
>
> The ETEK motor has only something like 32milli-ohms of resistance. Thus,
the stall current at 48v computes to be about 1500amps. So at 72v, the ETEK
stall current would be about 2250amps. While inductance, series resistance
and of course motor speed help to reduce the stress on the controller, it's
something to consider.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ovonics is trying to sell to Ford (and other FC and hybrid manufacturers).
By the way, it is Cobasys now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Thurber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
> > At this point Ford is too far for it to be mere
> plans
>
> I was referring to whether their battery packs would
> be made by Panasonic or ECD, aka Ovonic.
>
> -Sam
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<snip>
I am considering the same but I also like
the "mechanical fuse" aspect the clutch adds.
If you can search the archives, Bill Dube (sometimes spelled Bill Dube')
had some good comments about the huge shock to the transmission when you
hit a pothole.
good point
As for me, I'm going clutchless, but hopefully not shiftless. My AC motor
can spin almost 10K rpm, and the thought of spinning a massive clutch
plate that fast scares me. The balance shop would not touch it after I
told him how fast it might go. And I was worried that the slighest
imbalance would bend the motor shaft.
What I ended up doing is machining an adaptor out of 7075 aluminum that
holds the inner portion of the clutch. It still has the springs between
the two parts of the clutch to help take up some of the shock, and a tiny
amount of misalignment. As for shifting, since my controler supports
regen, I believe I can make an embedded controller that will measure the
motor speed and the speed of the gears I will shift to, and quickly match
the RPMs for easier shifting.
Awsome, My first idea was to use PM motors and a lot of shifting and was thinking
of the same type of shift control.
I probably didn't need my home made adaptor balanced because they only
drilled two little holes (I'm sure just to make me feel like I got
something for my money!).
"What?!? you charged me $40 just to drill those two tiny little holes???"
"No, I charged you one dollar to drill those holes. I charged you $39 to
figure out where to put those holes!" :-)
Here is how we balance grinding wheels
1. we have a pair of level parallel bars
2. we put wheel on shaft and let the heavy part find the low spot, and mark it
3. for the wheels there are weights onthe hub we can move, but on the flywheel I would drill the hole a tad then re-mount
4. place back on level at same location and rotate it 90 degrees either way
if it is balanced, it stays there, otherwise it falls back to the same heavy point
(I used to wonder if it would ever find a new spot, but it never did)
repeat until done
this is done on the grinding wheels or the oscilations cause ripples in the surface, I think it would work for flywheels perfectly.
I will be giving it a try sooner or later. :-)
- Steven Ciciora
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.dekabatteries.com/products/marine.html
if you register, on the lefthand frame, they have a link to Dominator
Gel. You can get many good PDFs about gel batteries there, from the
basic to fairly technical. These are the batteries that go in Solectria
Forces.
HTH
Seth
On Oct 29, 2004, at 1:52 AM, Joe Smalley wrote:
About a half volt lower acceptance voltage. The high acceptance voltage
causes small gas bubbles in the gel that increase the internal
resistance of
the cells. The Optimas let the gas escape but the gel does not.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "michael bearden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: Gel Cel Etiquette
I am very nearly ready to return the Gogomobil to service as my
cross-town commute-mobile (and laugh-getter). I am using 4 Optima
buddy-pairs to power it, and I have 2 electric wheelchair/scooter gel
cells that I want to use for the 12v power. As I have no real
experience
with gel cells, I have questions (and the EVDL ALWAYS has answers!)
I am planning on using a 12v charger to begin with ('til I find a
suitable 48v DC/DC) and a Rudman reg on each battery. They will also
be
run as a buddy-pair as they fit so nicely in the remaining space in
the
rear battery compartment..
What do I need to do differently in their care and charging from the
Optimas?
Thank you-
Michael B.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depends on the Cd, area, rolling resistance and grade. 60 metric tons
is quite heavy. I have never driven an EV heavier than 16 tons. That
schoolbus needed approximately 90kW on the flat at 60mph. If I remember
correctly. It had a horrible Cd, but at 9' 10" had about 3/4 the area
of a semi-tractor. Which would be more than half the drag of your big
vehicle. I suspect 200kW would do fine as long as it was dead flat. The
calculation for power required on a grade is easy, and will reveal why
they make ~600hp diesel engines. Even a 2% grade requires huge power.
Seth
On Oct 28, 2004, at 6:00 PM, Simon Sandvik wrote:
How much electric horsepower would you need when driving a big truck @
50 mph with a 60.000 kg total weight?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this in an EV or is it the starting battery for a (probably) GM truck.
In the 10 yrs I've owned my Silverado, I've had 2 batteries "die" suddenly
and prematurely, the positive side-post fell off.
First it lost it's connection, providing no power. Visual examination
showed no problem, touch the positive cable to see if it's loose and it
falls off in your hand. Luckily the last time I replaced the battery I got
one with both top and side post's. I now have a fully functional battery,
it's just missing it's positive side post(I imagine it's not sealed
either.
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of James D Thompson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 7:08 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Battery at Zero volts?
>
>
>
> Actually, I take it back. The resting voltage isn't 0, but 0.05 volts. I
> thought about it and reset the meter low enough to pick it up. The battery
> is in an old truck I bought a month ago and worked without
> complaint two weeks ago. It looks to be no more than a half dozen years
> old at most, hasn't frozen up or sprung a leak, or suffered any other
> noticeable trauma. It just up and died.
>
> David Thompson
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it aluminum, than 1/4 inch thick. It was than coated about 1/8 thick acid
proof material that is similar to truck bed liners.
It was strong enough, so the battery container could be removed with
batteries with a fork lift, or jacks and dollys.
This box was bolted to the frame with 3 welded on 4 inch aluminum box beams
that is fasten with 12 1/2 inch grade 8 bolts. The minute movements of the
frame did not effect the box.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 9:53 PM
Subject: Battery Box Gauge
> For those who have built sheet metal or aluminum battery boxes, what gauge
> metal did you use? Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What other motors is there that compare to the Etek and can be safely
run at 72vdc? Preferably in that price range, maybe a little higher. I
am looking for a small-package motor that can easily be located on a
lightweight motorcycle.
I am currently using a 6.7" AC4 (Tropica motor) in my current
conversion, but on this chassis, I had the room. I am running at 72VDC
with an Alltrax controller. I'm about 2 to 3 weeks from having it on the
road and already working up designs for the next one...
Thanks for the help!
Shawn Waggoner
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Borges
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 05:35
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ETEK Motor Info
Your math may be right but probably real life curves is not linear, PERM
132
(24-72V) data show a 1000A stall current on a 25milli-ohms resistance,
so
with higher resistance, Etek should be less.
Because of EMF, stall current should be with lower voltage than max one.
There are few Etek/Alltrax-scooter at 60/72V and i know one motorbike.
There
is minimal issue at 60V if you keep max current far lower than original
spec. and monitor temperature but at 72V you are definately out of spec.
You are going to change brushes often and absolutely need a controller
which
deal with low inductance.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "MYLES ANTHONY TWETE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: ETEK Motor Info
> First, I don't have experience with my ETEK at 72v, but only 36v for
my
electric boat:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html
>
> But, here's something to consider:
>
> The ETEK motor has only something like 32milli-ohms of resistance.
Thus,
the stall current at 48v computes to be about 1500amps. So at 72v, the
ETEK
stall current would be about 2250amps. While inductance, series
resistance
and of course motor speed help to reduce the stress on the controller,
it's
something to consider.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm new to this list, so a quick intro and then a question. I've been interested in
EVs for sometime, both because they are environmentally right and because as an
electrical engineer I find them to be the ultimate in cool toys. (Particularly as an
engineer who used to do a lot of hands-on with control systems, but whose job now
mostly consists of pounding out allegedly useful ideas on a word processor, I need an
excuse to touch real wires.) (And, yes, since my control system work was with 480 VAC
and sometimes near 13.8 KV, I have a great deal of respect for not touching LIVE
wires). Anyhow, I started indulging my interests on a small scale with an elec-trak
36v tractor several years ago.
Now, I've taken the next step: 93 Escort Wagon, converted in '93 with a 120v pack of
twenty T105s and a Curtis 1221C 400 amp controller. It has since been changed over to
twenty 12v Optima AGMs. Since the pack is still 120v, the 20 batts are now arranged
as 10 parallel pairs of batteries in series. To try to diagram it (and this will only
look right in a fixed width font):
(+) B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B (-)
| | | | | | | | | |
B B B B B B B B B B
The Optimas are getting tired after 7 years of service, so I'm looking to change them
out. My question is this: If I stick with some sort of 12v AGM, is this pair-wise
arrangement the best set up? Any reason to change to 2 parallel strings of 10
batteries each?
(+) B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B (-)
| |
B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B
Or for that matter some other combination of series and parallel? What do these
various combos do to battery management? (Currently has 10 Rudman regs installed and
a Zivan smoother on the shelf). My apologies if this is a well-worm topic that I as a
newbie wasn't able to find in the archive search.
- Tom Coate
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For testing the various components **before** they are installed into the
car, I am wanting to have a 300VDC 2kw power supply. Any suggestions for
how I can do this **cheaply**?
What comes to mind are:
- a bunch more test batteries
- a voltage double circuit of some sort
thanks
Don
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Performance is my main reason for a transmission. I have an ICE
motorcycle, and I'd rather not "downgrade".
damon henry wrote:
Are you sure you want a transmission. I am running a 48V 400 amp
Alltrax controller, an ADC 6.7 inch motor and a single 14 to 41 gear
ratio. It's not quick for a motorcycle, but easily keeps up with
cars. I top out at just over 60mph, but could change that if I went
to a 72V controller. Unless you need drag racing type accelaration
and a very high top end I wouldn't bother with a transmission. Just
pick an appropriate motor/controller combo and select a decent gear
ratio and you'll be fine. You will already have a hard time finding
space for enough batteries to get decent range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He's also using a shaft drive, which would pretty much lock me into
using a BMW rear end. I don't think you'd need a clutch, as you can
often shift ICE motorcycles without the clutch; it would be easier with
electric since you can effectively drop the engine torque to zero by
rolling off the throttle.
Doesn't look like Ridley sells the tranny separate, plus I'm concerned
about it's efficiency.
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
This guy used a BMW- see Website: www.reverendgadget.com
Looked pretty straight forward.
With a Harley Pulley do you really need a clutch? Maybe a Honda CVT would do? Such as the Silverwing uses. There is also the Ridley CVT for Harley's as well.
Those are the methods I am exploring when I build my Trimagnum EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My only real beef with the harley transmissions is the cost ... I don't
care about chrome or even if it's painted, but since the Harley style is
shiny-pretty-sparkly, it drives up the prices.
Reverend Gadget wrote:
If you need to use a tranny on your bike I think the
best solution is the harley trans. It has a clutch
attached which is driven by a chain or belt. you can
adjust this primary ratio with the drive sprocket on
your motor.
My BMW is whicked in first gear, but I usualy use
third to start and wish I had three more to keep going
with. it will do 60 but the torque has really fallen
off by then.
For my mext bike I will be using the harley style
trans, an older four speed box, and I will be changing
the primary ratio so that my rpms will be at about 2
grand at highway speeds.
Gadget
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning
to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate
transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with
the engine, with
shared engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with
an electric motor
this isn't really an option, as you'd have to
separate the transmission
from the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of
the bike (preferably
< 18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds
(gears) should be enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to
acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one.
A new one is $900
- $3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka
"preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they
/appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's
clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal
of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to
suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at
the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the
ration difference is
really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case"
from a 4wd might be an
option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type
transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle"
transmission. If there's
a small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits
the bill (and the
frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
