EV Digest 3913
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Power wheels back online
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Precharge Resistor Questions
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Thank you!
by "Rmanzan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: regbus control of non-rudman charger. (was: variac turn-on? maybe ot)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Freewheeling a series motor
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hello
by "Rmanzan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Peukert's exponent for US-145s?
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) battery post temperature dots
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV Colorado folk's
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Fw: STM5-180 NiCad
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Power wheels back online
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Battery self Discharge comparisons
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) China, Michelin Challenge Bibendum, comments an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Feedback on EV high voltage system
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Feedback on EV high voltage system
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Market Survey
by Joseph Vaughn-Perling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: battery post temperature dots
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Power wheels back online
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Feedback on EV high voltage system
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: STM5-180 NiCad
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Feedback on EV high voltage system
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---You can make some rubber bands from car inner tubes that fit the tires like tire chains. It cuts down on the slippage in the grass. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Power wheels back online > What I > really need now is some better tires, since the thing will slide with > the plastic wheels against wet grass.
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--- Begin Message ---I use a 120 VAC hair dryer in my 48 volt EV. The fan spins up as the voltage comes on and then exponentially tapers off as the capacitors charge. If the fan spins up and does not come down, I know to get my foot off the accelerator pedal. I had a FET short on me and it prevented the contactor from engaging and sending the car over a curb. If you use a 120 VAC hair dryer, it will work only one way. If the fan does not come on, turn it off before it burns up, reverse the polarity and retest it. If the fan comes on, it is connected correctly. DO NOT use the internal power switch when operating from DC. Always use an external DC rated switch. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "JCT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:03 AM Subject: Re: Precharge Resistor Questions > > From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > An alternative I like is to use a light bulb as the precharge resistor. > When cold, their resistance is very low, so they precharge faster. if > the controller fails to precharge, the light bulb lights up as an > indicator. Its resistance also goes up dramatically, so it self-limits > the current. > -- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever > has!" -- Margaret Mead > -- > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net > ============== > Hi Lee, > I like the bulb idea in as much as it is not gigantic :-) > What bulb would you recommand for a > 275 A 36-48 V 1204Z Curtis used in a 48V system? > I am interested by the smaller option in term of required space (volume). > Thanks, JCT >
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--- Begin Message --- :))
Price.com
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--- Begin Message ---Yes, you can control any charger with an enable pin with the Regbus feedback. Many chargers can have the enable control added with a relay. You can put the switch on the AC side if the charger does not have an inrush problem (big caps or transformer surge) or a timer issue (microprocessor controlled chargers that raise the acceptance voltage when restarted). To power the Regbus, use a 78L05 with the positive output on pin 1 and the negative on pin 4. Use a 1 K resistor from Regbus pin 2 to Regbus pin 4 to pull Regbus pin 2 low to bias the Regbus. When Regbus pin 2 goes high, it indicates a reg is in trouble and the charger needs to turn off. Regbus Pin 2 can be fed into the base of a PNP transistor for current amplification. The collector of the PNP transistor needs to go to Regbus pin 4. The emitter of the PNP transistor must be connected to the negative input of the SSR. The positive input of the SSR must be connected to regbus Pin 1. When the regs are happy (cold) the SSR will have over 4 volts on it causing it to turn on. When the regs get hot, the SSR will turn off. The SSR needs to be active with 4 volts on the input. The 78L05 needs at least 7 but no more that 15 volts on it to function correctly. Typically this power needs to come on and go off at the same time as the charger. If this power supply fails, the charger will not come on. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gravity Girl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:38 AM Subject: regbus control of non-rudman charger. (was: variac turn-on? maybe ot) > > Color me silly, but I am trying to take advantage of Rich's regbus on > his regulators without using one of his chargers. > > I may be going about this the wrong way, however. > > If there is a thermal overload on one of the regulators, one pin on the > regbus goes to +5v. The most it can put out is 100 milliamps. > > I was thinking that to shut down the charger in thermal overload > conditions I could put a normally closed SSR on the DC side (should I > put it on the AC side of the charger?) that would open when the regbus > triggered the +5v. I figured on an SSR because they can handle nice > currents/voltages with a tiny triggering current compared to a regular > relay. > > Each of my regs has a load-controlled fan, and my charger is a 3A > soneil, but I want to protect my investment. And since Rich was kind > enough to put the thermal sensing in there, I figured I'd take > advantage of it. > > A bit about me: I know almost nothing about electronics but I can build > things pretty well if pointed in the right direction. > > -Cristin > > On Nov 12, 2004, at 10:28 AM, Lee Hart wrote: > > > cristin wrote: > >> I was looking at SSRs today, but having a helluva time finding > >> exactly what I need: > >> > >> 5v trigger with less than 100 milliamp draw > >> Normally closed > >> can switch 100V 10A > > > > Normally closed is rare; almost all are normally open. > > > > Also why only 100v? Are you switching DC? Most SSR "contacts" are AC > > only, and so come in 120vac, 240vac, 480vac etc. voltage ratings. > > > > If you want DC "contacts" and normally-closed, that is your problem; > > you're looking for two uncommon options at once. > > -- > > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed > > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever > > has!" -- Margaret Mead > > -- > > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > > > > > > > -- > > La Bola Ocho Magica dice: ME RESPUESTA ES NO >
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--- Begin Message ---Resistance of a series motor can be expressed as ohms per RPM. As the motor winds up, the apparent resistance goes up (back EMF) and the input power drops off. As the motor winds up, the internal windage and friction goes up with RPM as well. When the input power drops to meet the rising friction, the motor stops accelerating causing it to run at a steady speed. To get the motor to overspeed, you will need enough voltage to make it draw enough power (in the presence of back EMF) to overcome the windage and friction losses at maximum speed. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 8:06 PM Subject: Freewheeling a series motor > Question: I just picked up a "rusty" (actually it's not rusty and is in > great shape!) Elec-Trak tiller. I took the motor off for some review, > pulled the end cap, checked the bearings (great) and the brushes (great) > and put it all back together. > > On a 12 volt battery the motor spins up to a certain speed and just > stays there. My question is this: It's a series wound motor, and I > thought that if you ran a series motor with no load it would self > destruct/overpseed. This one did not seem to do that, and my snowblower > motor doesn't seem to overspeed either. What are the conditions that can > cause overspeed on an unloaded series motor? > > Chris >
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--- Begin Message ---Although they covered CHG and briefly Hydrogen it was very fair coverage of the Think City. On video are TV reporter Anna Werner interviewing Ford environmental representative Sue Ciske and others. But even Sue Ciske admits Ford has work to do following Bill Ford's were the environmental car marker statement. Sue Ciske was calling the Ford Think City program an experiment to find out if this is technology that had any future and we found it didn't. Reporter Anna Werner, "but these were popular cars" Sue Ciske, "Right but is that were you think the American Auto Industry is going to a bunch of little go carts that are driving around, at the end of the day it did not fit with our business model" Cut to Marc Geller Ford Think City driver, "they had more customers than cars" Narrative Anna Werner, "Marc has changed why can't Ford" (early in the piece Marc said he use to drive a gas guzzler) Marc Geller, "A car company should not be allowed take a non polluting non gas using car and destroy it and insist that someone buy something that pollutes" Narrative goes on about how Ford was going to destroy the Think cars and how international protest by activist groups including Greenpeace got Ford to back down from its plan to destroy them and to now ship the Thinks to Norway where consumers are eager to buy them. End, Danny Ames >From the creator of '60 Minutes,' Don Hewitt, '30 Minutes Bay Area' is CBS 5's latest news magazine featuring the issues and people of interest to the Bay Area. First Edition: '30 Minutes Bay Area' CBS5.com Staff On This Week's Show Broken Promises? It was supposed to be a new era of environmental responsibility at the Ford Motor Company. But do their programs match their promises? In San Francisco, where city officials have invested millions in partnering with ford to clean up the air, some of the promises are now ringing hollow. CBS 5 Investigative reporter Anna Werner takes a look at this story. "Broken Promises" produced by Jeff Harris and Steven Fyffe Reported by Anna Werner, Chief Investigative Reporter, CBS 5 Eyewitness News Synopsis: Examines Ford Motor Company's promises about environmental responsibility and their program with the city of San Francisco and in particular the Think Car.
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--- Begin Message ---Uve's Battery Page has a nice tool and Flooded Battery Chart. http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8679/battery.html Plug in the values to calculate peukert in the web page. I get 1.1390499187978615 Danny... Sherry Boschert wrote: > > Does anyone happen to know the typical Peukert's > exponent for US-145 lead acid batteries? I just > swapped these into my Rabbit to replace T-145s, and > the e-meter manual says the typical Peukert's for > T-145s is 1.14. I'm assuming it's about the same for > US-145s, but does anyone know? > > thanks, > > Sherry > San Francisco > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > www.yahoo.com >
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--- Begin Message ---Swapped a battery in the Rabbit's pack today, then gave 'er a run up the hill to check for warm posts. Unfortunately, I did find one in the back pack just touching posts, quite warm whereas all the others were stone cold. This is my first "warm" post, ie. hot enough to be of some concern, in my EV career. Which brings me to my ?. Has anybody tried anything like a temperature-sensitive dot placed on top of a battery post. If the post got too hot, the dot would change color (and stay that way), warning you when you next do your battery maintenance that something is amiss. A quick search of the internet led me to think that the food industry may be a good source. I found some possibilities at http://www.spirig.com/celsi/index.html, with products like the CelsiDot. I'd much rather have a red dot staring at me when I do my monthly battery maintenance and lift the post covers than letting the smoke out in the middle of the night going up one of the steep grades around here. Dream-on mode: Someday I'd like to have a Bluetooth-capable thermistor on each post, sending temperature data to the central processor in the car... Just one of many programmable displays: post temperatures for the pack, in real time no-less. Dream mode off. Thanks, Chuck
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--- Begin Message ---Hi all, for those Ev'ers in Colorado and want to meet for some skiing, I'll be staying at Breckenridge, Beavercreek lodge Mon - Th night Nov 22 - 25 Thanksgiving. Initially I'll be in Co Spgs at the Doubletree Sat & Sun Nov 21,22 initially and returning Fri night 26th. I'll be with my little boy 6, and a friend with his boy. Mark E. Hanson 184 Vista Lane Fincastle, VA 24090 540-473-1248-H 540-563-2000x290-W Electric Tracker, solar-wind-GeoThermal home www.solectrol.com
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--- Begin Message ---Does anyone have an email or phone contact at Saft to answer some questions? I'm trying to figure out how much life is left in 1996' NiCad batteries. Thanks, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Hanson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:27 AM Subject: STM5-180 Dear Saft, There are your Ni-Cad STM5-180 batteries from 1996 that were used in AVS Electric busses being sold from California for $200 ea. I'll need 20 +2 spares for my Electric Jeep and was wondering how these batteries can be tested to ensure that a long life is left? What is the typical cycle life? Do I do a discharge measurement and see if it is still 180 AH? Is it a linear relationship, if I have 170ah left, per se, then I would have 94% life left? Do you have a graph of AH remaining VS expected life cycles? Thanks, Mark E. Hanson
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 1:50 AM Subject: Re: Power wheels back online > You can make some rubber bands from car inner tubes that fit the tires like > tire chains. It cuts down on the slippage in the grass. > > Joe Smalley > Rural Kitsap County WA > Fiesta 48 volts > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:49 PM > Subject: Power wheels back online > > > > What I > > really need now is some better tires, since the thing will slide with > > the plastic wheels against wet grass. > Hi Power Wheelers; Couldn't ya get RID of those horrible plastic wheels and replace with the generic hardware store replacment wheels sold for lawnmowers and stuff like that? Or the pneumatic offerings from, Harbor Freight or Northern Tools? Make it a quiet EV, Used to hate the racket all those plastic crap toys made on the concrete, because of the cheezy wheels. I did that with every plastic wheeled THINGS when the kids were little. Seeya Bob
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--- Begin Message ---Lawrence, That is about right...150 to 200 miles depending on who is driving. As you noted that is a sizeable vehicle (and heavy). As for being ~90 miles from Sacramento, there are atleast a couple fueling stations in the bay area where the car can refuel on the way home (i believe Chevron just opened a new one in Oakland). Oh yeah, no 'anti-static suit' required (don't believe everything you read on the EVDL). Takes just a couple minutes to re-fuel, easy enough for you or I to do it. ~Fortunat --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How much range Fortunat? It was 90 miles from > Sacramento. The plates were > Michigan plates. It had the funny little Japanese > mirrors up front on the > fenders. I'm assuming a 150 to 200 mile range. > Lawrence Rhodes...... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:55 AM > Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV > > > > Lawrence, > > > > was it greenish ? > > I assume when you say dealer plates, you mean > > M-plates, right ? > > I think that is one of ours (not really ours, but > we > > did all the hard work :)). There are four of these > X > > trail vehicles that live at the California Fuel > Cell > > Partnership in Sacramento. I assume this is one of > > them. > > > > I am glad to hear it is getting some use. > > > > ~fortunat > > > > --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I was driving across the Bay Bridge Wednesday > night > >> and fell in line behind > >> a Nissan FCV. The name was X-Trail. It was big. > >> Michigan dealer plates. > >> Typical Japanese setup as far as the mirrors. A > >> real concept car. God > >> knows what they were doing driving it across > >> country. Lawrence > >> Rhodes....... > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > > www.yahoo.com > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---It looks like with 10x the self discharge characteristics of lead and new 1500 typical cycle life for STM5-180's that buying *used* for $4X the cost of floodies (600 cycles T-105 14k miles) would not be cost effective. Does anyone know the typical cycle life of these batteries and has used them? Thanks, mark http://www.thermoanalytics.com/support/publications/batterytypesdoc.html
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--- Begin Message ---Hi EVers' If any of ya get the Auto Week magazine, there is a good, interesting article, well several in the Nov. 15th offering, go to www. autoweek.com. They talk about the Michelin Thing in Shanghai. Shanghai appears to be the rising (red)star of things Chinese in the automotive field. Quoted a line here from the "Opposite Look"column (China) It's communist govermnment has the ability to declare solutions without thrashing it out, without fear of public protest or even the enmity of lobbyists for for competing (Read, Oil Co.s and Auto Co's)my addition here, solutions. This too often draws wistful near admiring observations from clean car advocates in the rest of the world" End of HIS quote. MY quote, Maybe the Battery Electric, freed from the built in naysayers HERE, can and will, prove itself in a fairly done effort. GO CHINA! Hope they can pull it off. Legislating EV's onto the roads, good ones. The scooter thing , good point, the good ones are weeded out from the You-get-what-you-pay-for crap out there. The better Chinese cars will "Come Out" and we can have them. Maybe GM might resume EV -1 production, with some serious Chinesy compititon, stretch it to a 4 place sedan. Maybe ATT in Korea might get the Parade up and in production. Hey! ATT!, You got your ears on? Loved that little green Parade ya had here a few years ago! Howbout a few million more? Auto Week, I like better than the Motor Trend and Car an' Driver, they take a more poz look at electrics, hybrids. I think, mainly they don't have PAGES of SUV ads to maintain, you cant diss your ad revenue source, can we? My two Watts worth Bob
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--- Begin Message ---To those interested in kid's EVs: I came accross a PegPerego Gaucho Jeep with run down batteries and some contact problems that I bought for my 4 year old last spring (used, i paid $50) I had seen how the PowerWheels are made and noticed that the Gaucho jeep is much more sturdy. This summer I actually ended up having a powerwheels jeep in addition (saw it at a thrift store for $10 and I couldn't resist). I put the two side-by-side and .... what a difference. The Gaucho is a lot sturdier, heavier, and (i think) better. The only advantage that the powerwheels had was that it was a bit more "aggressive" and slightly faster, which i attribute mainly to its lighter construction. Here's my summary in case somebody is interested: - both use two 12V motors run either from two 6V batts in series or in parallel - both seem to have a max. amperage of 30A (an automatic circuit breaker trips at this speed) The gaucho has some neat gadgets and safety features that the powerwheels doesn't have: - key lock - a drum brake thats adjustable and cuts the motor power when depressed - rear suspension - much sturdier tires with a 1" rubber center piece that provides for additional traction - seat belts - brake lights - lights - stick shift (a stick that triggers two switches for fast/slow/rev - for reverse the stick shift has to be held in place, so no accidential starts in reverse - horn - mock-up 4 cylinder motor with pumping pistons, camshaft, vents as a battery cover - manual winch on the front with cable and hook - bumper - metal roll over bar - here's a picture of the newer model http://shop.store.yahoo.com/babyride/od0006.html The powerwheels had the following that the gaucho didn't have - brakeless operation via a power resistor that shorted the motors when not in operation. The gaucho had one catch, the wiring got pretty hot, especially the battery connectors. I attributed this to both, the small wires and the voltage sag in the old batteries. (Gaucho actually had a recall on this item as the insulation caught fire on some models and it happened to us too, shortening the battery and melting my "fusible link". I bought a new 12V 35Ah SLA battery for the gaucho and changed the wiring to switch the motors from serial to parallel to achieve two speeds. Not an ideal solution as in serial operation once one wheel looses traction the other wheel can't provide any power and my son gets stuck. Also the motors may trip the breaker even with the good battery if two kids are in the jeep going on an incline on grass. I am considering putting a small pwm controller in the jeep (if you know a cheap 12V 50A controller, please let me know) to provide full torque at slow speeds and to replace the throttle and speed selector switches as they like to cause trouble once in a while. It happened a 2-3 times that the throttle switch got stuck and the car kept going, but thanks to the separate mechanical break it is possible for my kiddo to cut power to the motors and come to a quick stop. Markus
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--- Begin Message ---While (still) waiting for my adapter plate to come back from the machine shop, I am designing the high voltage system. Since my ASCII art is pretty rough, I have placed a schematic JPG at http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/High%20Voltage%20System.jpg NOTE: this does not show any of the 12v system, including charger interlock, heater control circuit, etc. A few things to note: 1. each battery box has an Anderson connector 2. I am using a big 600VAC 3 phase circuit breaker (wired in series) to switch the 312VDC. This is lighter and cheaper than 3 fuses and a set of Kilovac EV200 contactors for protection/pack switching. The only downside is that I am only switching one side of the circuit - is this a serious issue? 3. The charger is before the circuit breaker (as per Bob Brant's book) 4. The high voltage heater is before the contactors Any helpful comments are always appreciated (and documented for others). thanks Don Victoria, BC, Canada See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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--- Begin Message ---Markus, I also had a Peg Perego that I eventually completely rewired and put in new switches. I used a Marine deep cycle battery. We bought it new in 1994. It's been through 3 kids and finally the mechanical gearing stripped. I gave it to a friend at work who bought the motor/gearset from one of the online surplus places. His daughter has been using it for a year. I believe in starting the EV experience at a younge age! Speed control link, http://www.industrialliquidators.com/wesell/evwarrior.html
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--- Begin Message --- The Gaucho looks nice, but I think the problem I will run into will be the weight and physical room limit for the two kids; Dylan's already a tall one and Tara is coming up fast.
So here's an interesting question: What kind of a kid commuter car would be a step up from a Power Wheels? I'm thinking of something they can drive up to school over a field and whatnot or around the back woods. Gas power is 1,000% out.
One possibility would be an Elec-Trak E-8, but I'd worry that they would start pulling down trees for fun with it.
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 09:59, Don Cameron wrote: > 2. I am using a big 600VAC 3 phase circuit breaker (wired in series) to > switch the 312VDC. This is lighter and cheaper than 3 fuses and a set of > Kilovac EV200 contactors for protection/pack switching. The only downside > is that I am only switching one side of the circuit - is this a serious > issue? > > 3. The charger is before the circuit breaker (as per Bob Brant's book) While I would recommend breaking both sides of the pack, it is not required, especially for the AC system where motor leakage is not an issue. As a side note I wish victor would sell the contactors in two separate junction boxes. They would be smaller and easier to mount in the car, and you could install the negative and positive contactors closers to the ends of the pack, lessening the amount of energized wiring when shut down. If you're planning on using the circuit breaker to "safe" the pack when working on it you will want to move the charger to the other side of the circuit breaker. The PFC has a internal resistance (capacitor discharge resistor?) in parallel with the load. If the PFC is left connected and you remove one battery jumper somewhere in the pack the two now empty battery terminals will have the full pack voltage across them. (A circuit is formed thru the PFC's resistor) Since the resistor is in series the hazard is somewhat current limited, but at 300VDC it still smarts, and reconnecting the jumper will give you a big bang as the PFC's caps charge. Not good for you, the jumper or the PFC. All that might be moot if you are only planning on the CB for emergency shutdown. If you disconnect the Anderson connectors the packs would be safe regardless of which side the charger is on. Mark
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--- Begin Message ---Hi folks, I received an automotive market survey offer from a legit company I've worked with in the past. They *do* pay promptly for your opinions. I'm sending this to the list in the hopes that some of you have also purchased one of the cars they are researching and qualify for their paid survey. I think it would be nice if the market studies the automaker buy included more people who really understand the problems of automobiles and have good ideas on how to address those problems, (especially those who read this list). I hope you agree. I realize this is OT and so I am asking for forgiveness rather than permission. I tried to resist abusing your attention with this but I failed. :) Mea culpa, Joseph The offer is below: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hello. My name is Debbie Freedberg and I am a recruiter from Infoco. You may have done a market research group in the past and I am putting together a unique market research study re: cars and would really appreciate your help on this one.As always, your opinions are for market research purposes and no solicitations whatsoever. The first part of the project involves an email with three topics to write about over a one-week period 12/1-7. Upon completion, you will receive $100 to thank you for your time and input. From the email responses, the research team will choose several respondents for the second phase in January.This will be an inhome interview to better understand cars and lifestyles that will last 2 hours and you will receive an additional $200 for participating. I am specifically looking for men and women age 20-37 (with NO children) that have bought any of the following cars NEW in the last year (you must fax your registration to qualify): JEEP WRANGLER, NISSAN XTERRRA, HYUNDAI ACCENT, KIA RIO, CHEVY AVEO, SATURN ION, DODGE NEON, FORD FOCUS, SUZUKI AERIO, CHEVY CAVALIER Please email back to me the following information: Phone # Age Male or Female Type of car purchased Single or Married I will call you to discuss if this fits, and I would really appreciate if you could pass this on to anyone you may know that qualifies. Thank you. Debra Freedberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Researach Coordinator =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- · ____ __/o|__\~ ~ ~ `® -----®'---(= http://www.SoCalEV.com
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--- Begin Message ---Chuck Hursch wrote: > > Swapped a battery in the Rabbit's pack today, then gave 'er a run > up the hill to check for warm posts. Unfortunately, I did find > one in the back pack just touching posts, quite warm whereas all > the others were stone cold. This is my first "warm" post, ie. > hot enough to be of some concern, in my EV career. > > Which brings me to my ?. Has anybody tried anything like a > temperature-sensitive dot placed on top of a battery post. If > the post got too hot, the dot would change color (and stay that > way), warning you when you next do your battery maintenance that > something is amiss. > > A quick search of the internet led me to think that the food > industry may be a good source. I found some possibilities at > http://www.spirig.com/celsi/index.html, with products like the > CelsiDot. > > I'd much rather have a red dot staring at me when I do my monthly > battery maintenance and lift the post covers than letting the > smoke out in the middle of the night going up one of the steep > grades around here. > > Dream-on mode: Someday I'd like to have a Bluetooth-capable > thermistor on each post, sending temperature data to the central > processor in the car... Just one of many programmable displays: > post temperatures for the pack, in real time no-less. Dream mode > off. It's a good idea. I got some as free samples once, and put them on some of my battery posts. As luck would have it, none of these posts ever got hot. And, the adhesive didn't hold very well (half of them fell off). Omega has a lot of temperature indicating products. Something like a paint or crayon type product might be easier to use on a battery terminal. I wonder if it might be as simple as dripping some candle wax on each terminal? The wax will melt and run off if the terminal every gets hot. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Bob Rice wrote: > Couldn't ya get RID of those horrible plastic wheels and replace > with the generic hardware store replacment wheels sold for > lawnmowers and stuff like that? The slippery hard plastic wheels are there to act as a clutch. They will slip before you break something. If you put good rubber tires on it, you'd strip out the cheap plastic gears or wreck the motors. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Don Cameron wrote: > While (still) waiting for my adapter plate to come back from the > machine shop, I am designing the high voltage system. Since my > ASCII art is pretty rough, I have placed a schematic JPG at > http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/High%20Voltage%20System.jpg Your schematic looks good, but is simplified so much that it is hard to see how the details are being handled. I would put a fuse in each of the 3 battery boxes. If there's a short in the 2 wires coming from a box, it would be a disaster with no fuse. Position the Andersons so you can easily unplug them when working on the car or batteries. Given that you have a multipole main breaker, wire at least one pole in each side (one in the +, one in the -, third somewhere in the middle of the string). This still counts as all in series, and will better protect against shorts. It also separates the packs if opened for servicing. Is your charger isolated? If not, remember that ALL high voltage wiring should be built to UL/NEC type standards. Things connected to the AC line (either directly or indirectly) have to survive tremendous voltage peaks. At a minimum, everything has to survive 1500 volts to ground. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Christopher Zach wrote: > What kind of a kid commuter car would be a step up from a Power > Wheels? I'm thinking of something they can drive up to school > over a field and whatnot or around the back woods. I don't know of a commercial product; the "Powerwheels" type vehicles have basically driven everything else out. An electric bike is the obvious route. If you want more wheels, use a trike as the basic vehicle. You could convert a dead riding lawn mower fairly easily. Or, build something unique from scratch. Take a look at our BEST website www.bestoutreach.org for examples of kid-designed and kid-built EVs. They are very cheap (no one has yet spent over $100 on one), simple (built mostly of recycled materials), and easy to build (they have to be -- the kids do it). They are also very unreliable, but that's a consequence of "kid's treehouse" grade construction -- more normal construction techniques would fix this. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Try a C/3 load discharge test you should obtain 3 hours . I'm waking-up a 1997 STM5-100MRE, sitting at 1,6V that is still giving rated capacity at C/3. Philippe Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ? quel carburant choisiriez-vous ? http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 2:29 PM Subject: Fw: STM5-180 NiCad Does anyone have an email or phone contact at Saft to answer some questions? I'm trying to figure out how much life is left in 1996' NiCad batteries. Thanks, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Hanson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:27 AM Subject: STM5-180 Dear Saft, There are your Ni-Cad STM5-180 batteries from 1996 that were used in AVS Electric busses being sold from California for $200 ea. I'll need 20 +2 spares for my Electric Jeep and was wondering how these batteries can be tested to ensure that a long life is left? What is the typical cycle life? Do I do a discharge measurement and see if it is still 180 AH? Is it a linear relationship, if I have 170ah left, per se, then I would have 94% life left? Do you have a graph of AH remaining VS expected life cycles? Thanks, Mark E. Hanson
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--- Begin Message ---I don't know of a commercial product; the "Powerwheels" type vehicles have basically driven everything else out.
Ok, what was there before the Power Wheels? I'm still trying to figure out what that Fire Chief I had as a kid was. I remember the Stutz Bearcat car, but that was plastic, small, and slow (it was made by Marxx).
The fire chief was about 5-6 feet long, had a tube sub-frame, metal body, and was heavy. Drum brakes on the rear, and a motor that was a bit smaller than the Elec-trak E15 motor, probably an E12 size. Ran on two T105's in the back. I wonder if it was something from a Coney Island ride or somesuch.
Anyone ever seen one?
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---Lee Hart wrote: > Your schematic looks good, but is simplified so much that it is hard to see how the details are being handled. I will put in more of a physical layout, detail parts more and add notes. Other things? >I would put a fuse in each of the 3 battery boxes. If there's a short in the 2 wires coming from a box, it would be a disaster with no >fuse. Done. >Position the Andersons so you can easily unplug them when working on the car or batteries. Done. >Given that you have a multipole main breaker, wire at least one pole in each side (one in the +, one in the -, third somewhere in the >middle of the string). This still counts as all in series, and will better protect against shorts. It also separates the packs if >opened for servicing. Another great idea - Done. >Is your charger isolated? If not, remember that ALL high voltage wiring should be built to UL/NEC type standards. Things connected to >the AC line (either directly or indirectly) have to survive tremendous voltage peaks. At a minimum, everything has to survive 1500 >volts to ground. I intend on using a PFC-30. Yes, I will isolate the charger from the frame of the car (Rich suggested this when I spoke with him). I am a little concerned that the heater high voltage may be a weak link and not be up to the 1500 volt isolation. Any suggestions? thanks Don P.S. Mark, thanks for the tips on moving the charger **after** the C.B. Victoria, BC, Canada See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Cameron Sent: November 15, 2004 7:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Feedback on EV high voltage system While (still) waiting for my adapter plate to come back from the machine shop, I am designing the high voltage system. Since my ASCII art is pretty rough, I have placed a schematic JPG at http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/High%20Voltage%20System.jpg NOTE: this does not show any of the 12v system, including charger interlock, heater control circuit, etc. A few things to note: 1. each battery box has an Anderson connector 2. I am using a big 600VAC 3 phase circuit breaker (wired in series) to switch the 312VDC. This is lighter and cheaper than 3 fuses and a set of Kilovac EV200 contactors for protection/pack switching. The only downside is that I am only switching one side of the circuit - is this a serious issue? 3. The charger is before the circuit breaker (as per Bob Brant's book) 4. The high voltage heater is before the contactors Any helpful comments are always appreciated (and documented for others). thanks Don Victoria, BC, Canada See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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