EV Digest 3914
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: battery post temperature dots
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Source for Power-wheels stuff
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Modular Chargers
by "Arthur Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Precharge Resistor Questions
by JCT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) How to drive my shredder?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: How to drive my shredder?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) KPIX on Ford's Broken Promise
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: How to drive my shredder?
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: How to drive my shredder?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: battery post temperature dots
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Modular Chargers
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Modular Chargers
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Modular Chargers
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV digest 3913 - attachments getting through?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Modular Chargers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Test Message Please Ignore
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EV Colorado folk's
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Modular Chargers
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Modular Chargers
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---There are a variety of paints, labels, crayons, etc. for that purpose. A brand name to look for is Tempil. I've seen Tempil products at a welding supply store.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 1:34 AM
Subject: battery post temperature dots
Swapped a battery in the Rabbit's pack today, then gave 'er a run up the hill to check for warm posts. Unfortunately, I did find one in the back pack just touching posts, quite warm whereas all the others were stone cold. This is my first "warm" post, ie. hot enough to be of some concern, in my EV career.
Which brings me to my ?. Has anybody tried anything like a temperature-sensitive dot placed on top of a battery post. If the post got too hot, the dot would change color (and stay that way), warning you when you next do your battery maintenance that something is amiss.
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--- Begin Message --- What is the cost of the Hydrogen per gallon of gas equlivant? Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
Lawrence,
That is about right...150 to 200 miles depending on who is driving. As you noted that is a sizeable vehicle (and heavy). As for being ~90 miles from Sacramento, there are atleast a couple fueling stations in the bay area where the car can refuel on the way home (i believe Chevron just opened a new one in Oakland).
Oh yeah, no 'anti-static suit' required (don't believe everything you read on the EVDL). Takes just a couple minutes to re-fuel, easy enough for you or I to do it.
~Fortunat
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How much range Fortunat? It was 90 miles from
Sacramento. The plates were
Michigan plates. It had the funny little Japanese
mirrors up front on the
fenders. I'm assuming a 150 to 200 mile range.
Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
> Lawrence, > > was it greenish ? > I assume when you say dealer plates, you mean > M-plates, right ? > I think that is one of ours (not really ours, but we > did all the hard work :)). There are four of these X > trail vehicles that live at the California Fuel Cell > Partnership in Sacramento. I assume this is one of > them. > > I am glad to hear it is getting some use. > > ~fortunat > > --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I was driving across the Bay Bridge Wednesday night >> and fell in line behind >> a Nissan FCV. The name was X-Trail. It was big. >> Michigan dealer plates. >> Typical Japanese setup as far as the mirrors. A >> real concept car. God >> knows what they were doing driving it across >> country. Lawrence >> Rhodes....... >> >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > www.yahoo.com > >
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Since so many people have mentioned power wheels projects, I thought I would chime in with this web page:
http://www.1-800-sunbeam.com/power_wheels_index.html
They seem to sell just about any part you would need to repair/modify most models of power wheels and have good exploded & labeled drawings of just about every model ever made.
James
PS: I have no affiliation with this company, and have not even purchased anything from them.
JJ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- This was sort of the idea I had with my AC EV. I wanted to use a low, safe battery voltage, like current DC cars do, but I wanted to avoid rewinding the AC motor or buying one that was uncommon to industry. I had an idea for a charger and discharger to fit on each battery, like you did, but I realized the cost would be too high for 12 batteries. This may be different for you, however.
A boost converter is not ideal for this purpose because 1) it makes inefficient use of the magnetics, 2) it has high current ripple, 3) it is unstable without a load, and 4) it isn't isolated. The ideal converter is a push-pull with two H-bridges, where the secondary is isolated and "added" to the input DC bus. The final output isn't isolated but less power flows through the converter and efficiency is increased. Instead of having 8-12 of these, however, I only have 1 large one. It can be shut down for efficient operation of the motor and better regen, and can run off of my PFC battery charger output bus. The PFC's boost converter can adjust its duty cycle to change the battery charging current. I've got 3000W through half of my power supply, at 160V input, and have driven my car for about 15 seconds with it. I think the idea is very promising.
This is not saying the push-pull can't be adjusted. At my university, Michigan State, the FutureEnergy team is using a Z-Source inverter for their fuel cell inverter. The fuel cell has a variable output from 28-42V, but the output of the inverter needs to be constant. There are the equivalent of two H-bridges, both driving the same transformer with a square wave. Their phase is adjusted to transfer power from one side to the other, at a variable voltage. In effect, the leakage inductance of the push-pull transformer is being used as a boost converter. The 5kW design has been tested and works well. It almost makes me want to switch from the Solar Car Team.
Some of these ideas are detailed on my website, especially in my journals. Don't give up on an idea you think might be a little crazy, even if you might need to compromise - e.g. using one converter for every two cells.
Arthur Matteson - Custom Auto Electronics - Jackson, MI - '80 Lectric Leopard, 'Little Homebrew AC' http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt
Jay's peoplestar account wrote:why not get away completely from the troublesome concept of series connected cells? Imagine attaching both a charger and "discharger" to each cell. The discharger would boost the cell's 3 volts to high voltage AC or DC current needed to power the car's motor. The combination cell/discharger units would be ganged together to give the power and range need by the car.
It's possible. But the devil is in the details. It would require lots of high-current low-voltage wiring.
One could visualize a car being powered by perhaps 10 huge cells in this way.
This has been done; many fork lifts are 36-72v (18-36 2v lead-acid cells). These cells are of very large amphour capacity, like 500-2000ah.
But then, rather than a boost converter, they just design the motor and
controller to function directly with this low pack voltage. There are no
special problems making motors for any voltage. There are some practical
problems with electronic controllers for very large currents or voltages
(they get more expensive, and efficiency suffers a bit). But, a 36v
1400amp controller (50hp) controller is not out of reason.
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--- Begin Message ---From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I use a 120 VAC hair dryer in my 48 volt EV. The fan spins up as the voltage comes on and then exponentially tapers off as the capacitors charge. If the fan spins up and does not come down, I know to get my foot off the accelerator pedal. I had a FET short on me and it prevented the contactor from engaging and sending the car over a curb.
If you use a 120 VAC hair dryer, it will work only one way. If the fan does not come on, turn it off before it burns up, reverse the polarity and retest it. If the fan comes on, it is connected correctly. DO NOT use the internal power switch when operating from DC. Always use an external DC rated switch.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
==============
Thanks to you and Lee Hart for your answer.
However I will stick to my power resistors for now.
This is for an E-Skidoo & an E-garden tractor and will prefer something much smaller.
I very much like the bulb glowing (Lee) and now the sound (Fan) reminder from your hair dryer however :-(
JCT
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--- Begin Message ---Chris, I would look at converting a go-cart. Markus > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Zach > Sent: Montag, 15. November 2004 11:33 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep > > > The Gaucho looks nice, but I think the problem I will run > into will be > the weight and physical room limit for the two kids; Dylan's > already a > tall one and Tara is coming up fast. > > So here's an interesting question: What kind of a kid > commuter car would > be a step up from a Power Wheels? I'm thinking of something they can > drive up to school over a field and whatnot or around the back woods. > Gas power is 1,000% out. > > One possibility would be an Elec-Trak E-8, but I'd worry that > they would > start pulling down trees for fun with it. > > Chris >
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--- Begin Message ---This is really an Elec-Trak question, but I've posted it to the EVDL too - lots of tech-heads, and responses might serve to improve understanding of different motor types. Earlier this year I moved to a new house. Bigger lot, more trees, same amount of time (too little) to deal with it. Bought an electric tractor. Works *great*. Cuts my mowing time WAY down. Now it's fall. Y'know what? 50+ trees drop a LOT of leaves and needles. Raking takes too much time. So would blowing. Feeding them to the shredder takes too much time, so would bagging them. I'm *not* doing this again. Solution? Mount my electric chipper shredder (http://www.patriot-products-inc.com/products.htm#eleccsv) to a tow-behind cart so I can finish the job in a few hours. Here's my question. What's the best way to drive the shredder? The tractor runs on 36 VDC. These tractors can run some very power-hungry attachments with current draws up to 200 amps. The chipper/shredder has a 1.5 hp motor with the following specs: Mfr: Magnetek (no info at website) Cat. # 8 -184510-02 HP: 1.5 Type: CP Volts: 115 Amps: 13.0 Hz: 60 RPM: 3450 AMB: 40°C SF: 1.00 Time: Cont Code: G Encl: TE FR: F56C2 Form: KMW As for the RPM, a hand-held mechanical tach reads just over 3500 rpm. The motor has two bulges of different lengths on the case (starting caps?). What kind of motor is this? Specifically, what kind of inverter would I need to drive it? Could it take a crude excuse for a sine wave or does it want the real thing? What rated output should the inverter have for reliable use? I'd also like to run my B&D string trimmer off this, but I think your typical universal motor doesn't care much about wave form? If the inverter to drive this motor is too pricey, I'm thinking I could swap the motor for a DC unit and run it direct from the tractor. Suggested sources? Then I'd just get a cheapo inverter for the string trimmer. Am I on the right track here? TIA, Chris Tromley near Philadelphia PA USA 100% Gas-Free Yard Equipment: * Avco New Idea EGT 150 electric tractor (equivalent to GE Elec Trak E15M) with snow blade * B&D corded electric mower and string trimmer * Patriot 1.5 hp electric chipper/shredder/vac * Remington Garden Wizard corded electric tiller * Craftsman corded electric snow thrower
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--- Begin Message ---An APC Smart-UPS 2400 is what you want. They can power just about anything.
The issue though is they typically have 4 12 volt 17ah batteries, so not much capacity. I typically just toss mine in the back of the Elec-Trak in the weight box and go with it for heavy chainsaw work.
When I need longer term power I do something "bad". I take a 100ah AGM battery, put it in *series* with the Elec-Trak's 36 volts of floodeds, and run it all into the 48 volt input on the 2400. I charge the batteries seperately, and I watch for spread using my battery monitors, but it gives you basically 400ah at 48 volts to play with.
Chris
Chris Tromley wrote:This is really an Elec-Trak question, but I've posted it to the EVDL too - lots of tech-heads, and responses might serve to improve understanding of different motor types.
Earlier this year I moved to a new house. Bigger lot, more trees, same amount of time (too little) to deal with it. Bought an electric tractor. Works *great*. Cuts my mowing time WAY down. Now it's fall.
Y'know what? 50+ trees drop a LOT of leaves and needles. Raking takes too much time. So would blowing. Feeding them to the shredder takes too much time, so would bagging them. I'm *not* doing this again. Solution? Mount my electric chipper shredder (http://www.patriot-products-inc.com/products.htm#eleccsv) to a tow-behind cart so I can finish the job in a few hours.
Here's my question. What's the best way to drive the shredder? The tractor runs on 36 VDC. These tractors can run some very power-hungry attachments with current draws up to 200 amps. The chipper/shredder has a 1.5 hp motor with the following specs:
Mfr: Magnetek (no info at website) Cat. # 8 -184510-02 HP: 1.5 Type: CP Volts: 115 Amps: 13.0 Hz: 60 RPM: 3450 AMB: 40°C SF: 1.00 Time: Cont Code: G Encl: TE FR: F56C2 Form: KMW
As for the RPM, a hand-held mechanical tach reads just over 3500 rpm. The motor has two bulges of different lengths on the case (starting caps?). What kind of motor is this? Specifically, what kind of inverter would I need to drive it? Could it take a crude excuse for a sine wave or does it want the real thing? What rated output should the inverter have for reliable use? I'd also like to run my B&D string trimmer off this, but I think your typical universal motor doesn't care much about wave form?
If the inverter to drive this motor is too pricey, I'm thinking I could swap the motor for a DC unit and run it direct from the tractor. Suggested sources? Then I'd just get a cheapo inverter for the string trimmer. Am I on the right track here?
TIA,
Chris Tromley near Philadelphia PA USA
100% Gas-Free Yard Equipment: * Avco New Idea EGT 150 electric tractor (equivalent to GE Elec Trak E15M) with snow blade * B&D corded electric mower and string trimmer * Patriot 1.5 hp electric chipper/shredder/vac * Remington Garden Wizard corded electric tiller * Craftsman corded electric snow thrower
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--- Begin Message --- KPIX launched its new program "Thirty Minutes" with a report on "Ford's Broken Promise" of alternative fuel vehicles. Focussing on the cancellation of the Th!nk and Ford's CNG line, its quite an indictment.
Available for viewing at:
http://homepage.mac.com/dybbuk
Do send your feedback to Anna Werner. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --------Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Zach Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 2:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How to drive my shredder? > An APC Smart-UPS 2400 is what you want. They can power just about > anything. > > The issue though is they typically have 4 12 volt 17ah batteries, so not > much capacity. I typically just toss mine in the back of the Elec-Trak > in the weight box and go with it for heavy chainsaw work. > > When I need longer term power I do something "bad". I take a 100ah AGM > battery, put it in *series* with the Elec-Trak's 36 volts of floodeds, > and run it all into the 48 volt input on the 2400. I charge the > batteries seperately, and I watch for spread using my battery monitors, > but it gives you basically 400ah at 48 volts to play with. > > Chris Nothing wrong with putting the AGM in series with the Elec-Trak's pack, as long as you are watching the voltages of both packs (or better all the batteries) during discharge, and charging the packs separately. For batteries in series amp hours is limited to that of the smallest battery in the series, in this case 100ah assuming the 36 volt pack are GC batteries. Thanks, Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Nothing wrong with putting the AGM in series with the Elec-Trak's pack, as long as you are watching the voltages of both packs (or better all the batteries) during discharge, and charging the packs separately.
*nod* That's why I continue to love my little LED battery monitor. I've been using it on the Trac for months now, and doing all sorts of tap-off things to the pack. When one of the LEDs go on I know that one of the batteries is low and it's time to recharge. If that same battery is not a happy green at the end of charge I know I need to boost it manually.
It really works so well I would weep.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:07:10 -0800, "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >There are a variety of paints, labels, crayons, etc. for that purpose. >A brand name to look for is Tempil. I've seen Tempil products at >a welding supply store. Another brand is Temp-Plate from the guys who invented the type, Wahl Instruments. Unfortunately, Wahl was bought out by Cole-Palmer a few years ago but their core products are still available. http://www.instrumentationgroup.com/w_Wahl/temp-plate/n_wahl_temp-plate.html Wahl also makes a one-way lacquer that changes color at the designated temperature. I believe the name is Templaq. Look on that same site. As Lee mentioned, Omega sells most of this stuff. Convenient but pricey. Usually, buying direct from the mfr when possible can save up to a third or more over Omega's prices. John --- John De Armond [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---Markus L wrote: > I would look at converting a go-cart. The trouble with this is the same one that plagues converting regular cars and motorcycles. The vehicles weren't designed to be EVs, and so are overly heavy and inefficient. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Christopher Zach wrote: > Ok, what was there before the Power Wheels? Gee, there were a lot of them! Before WW2 there were a bunch of what I guess you'd call "quadracycles". They had four spoked wheels like a bicycle or motorcycle. Most were gasoline, some were electric. After WW2, they became more car-like. They vaguely resembled the cars of the day; ladder frame, metal or wood "british sports car" like body, etc. My grandfather had a "buckboard", which was sold by Sears. It was basically a wood-framed go-kart. The electric version had a car generator used as a motor. The gasoline version had a 5th wheel directly geared to the motor. The "clutch" pedal simply lowered it against the road! In the 50's and 60's, there were lots of pressed-metal sidewalk vehicles; cars, trucks, tractors, etc. Most were pedal-powered. The electric ones had what looked like a car windshield wiper motor, and a U1-size battery. In the 70's you started to get kiddie cars with sealed gel-cell batteries and what looked like cordless electric drill PM motors. A friend had one; it had a frame made out of bent electrical conduit, lawnmower type wheels, a masonite floor, and molded plastic body much like today's Powerwheels. > I'm still trying to figure out what that Fire Chief I had as a > kid was. The way you describe it, I wonder if it was a King Midget. This was a tiny 1-seat car that actually went (barely) fast enough to drive on the street. There were both electric and gas versions. They were mostly sold as kits out of the back of Popular Science and the like. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Jay's peoplestar account wrote:
Another brainstorm about modular chargers: why not go whole hog and get away completely from the troublesome concept of series connected cells? Imagine attaching both a charger and "discharger" to each cell (large lithium cells on the order of 500 to 1000 ah would work well for this purpose). The discharger would boost the cell's 3 volts to high voltage AC or DC current needed to power the car's motor. The combination cell/discharger units would be ganged together to give the power and range need by the car. One could visualize a car being powered by perhaps 10 huge cells in this way. There would be no more problems with reversed or imbalanced cells with the scheme. Fail-safe circuitry would cut out the discharger if a cell or circuit failure occurred, but the car would still be driveable using the power from the remaining cells, with reduced range and performance.
Or perhaps the best approach would be to use one single gigantic (5000+ amp hour) cell to power the whole car; someone mentioned on this list that a chinese-made electric scooter works this way.
That was me, but the problem is you need to step up the voltage 50-100 times.
If your system takes 200A to run (very modest number), your cell
should deliver 10,000-20,000A, and you need to come up with a
DC-DC converter handling such currents.
This is not practical at least because all the conductors on primary size will be the size of your arm, not to mention the cost, size and efficiency of a DC converter with 3.6V 10,000A input...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Lee Hart wrote:
I think a more practical route to do this would be to build a contactor
controller, with (say) twelve 3.6v 500ah cells. The contactors can wire
them for 3.6v, 7.2v, 10.8v, 14.4v, 21.6v, or 43.2v. Use a 36v 1000a
forklift motor. Now you have a high-efficiency controller, and can wire
all the cells in parallel for automatic balancing.
Lee, wiring the cells in parallel will in a while equalize voltages on them, but will not
*balance* them.
I connect 100Ah and 10Ah cells in parallel and run 3.6V charger to this pair.
Are they balanced?
Point is, the same name plate capacity cellsare not the same capacity.
Yes, equalizing voltages is better than nothing, but it isn't "balancing".
I think for newbies we have to make this distinction, and then they can decide what is good enough for them.
Victor
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--- Begin Message ---What is the difference between equalization and balancing? Is it that equalization pertains to the voltage, and balancing pertains to the SOC? thanks Don Victoria, BC, Canada See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov Sent: November 15, 2004 2:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Modular Chargers Lee Hart wrote: >I think a more practical route to do this would be to build a contactor >controller, with (say) twelve 3.6v 500ah cells. The contactors can wire >them for 3.6v, 7.2v, 10.8v, 14.4v, 21.6v, or 43.2v. Use a 36v 1000a >forklift motor. Now you have a high-efficiency controller, and can wire >all the cells in parallel for automatic balancing. > > Lee, wiring the cells in parallel will in a while equalize voltages on them, but will not *balance* them. I connect 100Ah and 10Ah cells in parallel and run 3.6V charger to this pair. Are they balanced? Point is, the same name plate capacity cellsare not the same capacity. Yes, equalizing voltages is better than nothing, but it isn't "balancing". I think for newbies we have to make this distinction, and then they can decide what is good enough for them. Victor
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--- Begin Message ---Has anyone else been seeing attachments coming with the digest? I have seen a joke.scr and price.com - these look fishy to me, and of course I haven't tried opening them. I thought the EVDL blocked attachments?
The 200sx is coming along quite nicely. I'm hoping to have good news about it driving within the next couple of weeks. I sure wish it were warmer outside. It's not much fun working out in the cold...I need a garage :)
Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
EV Digest 3913
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Power wheels back online
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Precharge Resistor Questions
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Thank you!
by "Rmanzan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: regbus control of non-rudman charger. (was: variac turn-on? maybe ot)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Freewheeling a series motor
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hello
by "Rmanzan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Peukert's exponent for US-145s?
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) battery post temperature dots
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV Colorado folk's
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Fw: STM5-180 NiCad
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Power wheels back online
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Battery self Discharge comparisons
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) China, Michelin Challenge Bibendum, comments an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Feedback on EV high voltage system
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Feedback on EV high voltage system
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Market Survey
by Joseph Vaughn-Perling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: battery post temperature dots
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Power wheels back online
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Feedback on EV high voltage system
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: STM5-180 NiCad
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: PowerWheels Jeep vs. Peg Perego Gaucho Jeep
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Feedback on EV high voltage system
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-- - EV Source - Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices 5% off all items in our Top-Line Shop from November to Christmas! E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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--- Begin Message ---Danny Ames wrote:
Sue Ciske was calling the Ford Think City program an experiment to findAll they need to do then is change their business model, so EVs will fit. Simple as that.
out if this is technology that had any future and we found it didn't. Reporter Anna Werner, "but these were popular cars"
Sue Ciske, "Right but is that were you think the American Auto Industry
is going to a bunch of little go carts that are driving around, at the
end of the day it did not fit with our business model"
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--- Begin Message --- Don't give up. My project took 3 years, the web site went bust months ago, the car is off the road waiting for a replacement battery and lots of work still to be done. Sigh. Still, when it's on the road, I get that ev grin deep within. She runs so nice. I can hardly believe that I had her in a million parts just a couple of years ago, no idea whether it was going to be an expensive rust heap or a thing of beauty. Got her together in June nice enough to ship her out to Vancouver for REV2004, 3 years after the first REV I went to where I got the bug. Now it just needs to be made better.
Gotta do the school stuff, pay the dues. Do a little bit here, a little bit there on the car. Biggest thing I had to learn was patience. Over the course of the project I had to fight off mosquitos, biting cold winter weather in my unheated garage, crashed me poor little Insight twice, dealt with illness that almost killed the project, now friggin arthritis. If it's not one thing it's another. But if it's not electric, it's not GREEN! If you can't plug it in, it ain't electric!
Now I'm driving an EV pickup, makes me realize how really nice the Citroen is, its ride as smooth as a boat on calm waters, turns on a dime, stops on a nickle. A lot of guys on this list took a long long time to achieve their dream, me one of them. Worth it.
Mike Hoskinson Edmonton
Jeff Dobereiner EVProject.com wrote:
I really love electric vehicles, I love alternative energies and I love my project. Most of all, I love the support and interest I have been getting.
...
I'd just like to hear your (plural) thoughts on the matter. Should I give it up? Can I find a buyer who would continue the project? Hell, do you think it's worth to have a car in college?
Thanks, -A very drained, Jeff
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--- Begin Message --- Oops! Sorry to post to an old topic. I misread the date on the message. 9/11, 11/9, whatever. Darn mail program is set for American style dates.
Mike Hoskinson -temporally challenged, and no time do anything about it.
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--- Begin Message ---Don Cameron wrote: > What is the difference between equalization and balancing? "Equalization" is when you deliberately overcharge a series string of cells, to provide enough time so the weakest/lowest cell has time to reach full charge. It depends on the rest of the cells being able to accept overcharge without (much) damage. "Balancing" is when you monitor each cell, and somehow arrange things so they are all at the same state of charge. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Hi folks,
Just ignore this, it is just a test.
Mike Chancey, '88 Civic EV '95 Solectria Force Kansas City, Missouri EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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--- Begin Message ---On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:45:36 -0800, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lee has been educating me today... but I just don't buy the power up at > peak not trough. I think it is to do with the transformer saturating momentarily when switched on. I know that the "inrush" surge can last for several cycles and I've noticed too that sometimes it happens and makes a big "thump", other times less so or not at all. If I remember correctly, whether it saturates or not *is* down to what Arthur mentioned before - the magnetic polarisation left from when you last switched it off. So it could be that switching it on at the "right" phase angle is meaningless unless you know what polarity it was switched off at... sound plausible? There is a way around this though - pre-charge it, like you would a controller! Just connect a lightbulb via a small switch or SCR in series with the transformer for a second before you throw in the main switch.
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--- Begin Message ---Mark Hanson wrote:
Hi all, for those Ev'ers in Colorado and want to meet for some skiing,
What voltage your skis run at?
Sorry, couldn't resist...
Victor
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--- Begin Message ---I'm curious about how these symmetrical contactor controllers work on a practical, everyday basis. Specifically, that last voltage jump from 21.6 to 43.2v seems like a big speed change. If you want an intermediate speed, I suppose you would constantly accelerating and decelerating between the two pack voltages? Is this an annoying characteristic, or do we adjust naturally to the throttle movements back and forth and not notice the changes? For example, my EM goes from 32 mph at 24v to 55 mph at 48v. The 36v step I have in the middle seems like a big advantage. Mark T. P.S. Great concept! Where can we buy these low voltage, high current contactors? > I think a more practical route to do this would be to build a contactor > controller, with (say) twelve 3.6v 500ah cells. The contactors can wire > them for 3.6v, 7.2v, 10.8v, 14.4v, 21.6v, or 43.2v. Use a 36v 1000a > forklift motor. Now you have a high-efficiency controller, and can wire > all the cells in parallel for automatic balancing. > --
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--- Begin Message ---and can wire all the cells in parallel for automatic balancing.
Lee, wiring the cells in parallel will in a while equalize voltages on them, but will not *balance* them.
With an array of switches and a controller like JPL is using, the batteries can be switched to various series or parallel configurations, but they can also be >isolated< for cell balancing or isolation of a faulty cell.
With the right control circuitry, this is a very slick solution which allows a variety of charging options such as using a fast bulk charger on the pack in parallel mode, then switching to a smaller charger on the individual batteries for the finishing charge and balance.
This is the best overall solution I have seen. It is not >especially< complex, and brings so many advantages to the table, that this solution is hard to ignore. I believe this will become the standard for future battery packs.
-Ken Trough Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite http://visforvoltage.com AIM - ktrough FAX - 801-749-7807 message - 866-872-8901
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--- Begin Message ---Why not a Quad converted EV with an Etek and limit the speed to go over terrrain. But keep the power down just to do the range required. Its still small and will fit two growing kids. Then as they get older bump up the speed with more battteries and bigger motor. That way the EV will grow with them. --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Markus L wrote: > > I would look at converting a go-cart. > > The trouble with this is the same one that plagues > converting regular > cars and motorcycles. The vehicles weren't designed > to be EVs, and so > are overly heavy and inefficient. > -- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of > thoughtful, committed > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only > thing that ever > has!" -- Margaret Mead > -- > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 > leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message --- On Nov 13, 2004, at 3:27 PM, Arthur Matteson wrote:...I would be curious what the original inquirer thinks at this point.
Hey Arthur, Rich, Lee, Neon, and all,
thanks for all the replies. As far as I'm concerned, this stuff is the meat of the EV list. Although no one seems to be able to agree on theory (I was confused too, which is why I posted), it seems like zero crossing SSRs were designed for this purpose so I'm getting one like I had planned. I'll know whether it works soon, although I may not be able to look at it on the scope since its not isolated. Maybe I should try to model the variac in Spice and see she does. Time to work on the controller.
seth
-- '72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
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