EV Digest 3940
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Do I have a cast iron flywheel?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: other options, Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: fuel gauge and clutchless shifting
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Gear Shopping
by Dragan Stancevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: ATE a PFC-50?? Was:Sealed PbA battery Options
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: High current draw from floodies, was RE: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Heater idea for winter
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Quin Pendragon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Any EVer's in Port Angeles, WA?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Any EVer's in Port Angeles, WA?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Any EVer's in Port Angeles, WA?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Do I have a cast iron flywheel?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Spare Tires (was Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Electric Vehicles Test Drive Li-ion Batteries
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Spare Tires (was Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: High current draw from floodies, was RE: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Spare Tires (was Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: other options, Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Buckeye Bullett on National TV Sunday
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) LRR vs. traction (was: RE: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Wanted: Unused Curtis throttle potbox model PB-5 or PB-6
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: LRR vs. traction (was: RE: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web)
by "Rob Morden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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The SCTA (Southern California Timing Association) rules say no cast
iron flywheels, and billet steel only for rear engine Porsche/VW.
Do I have a cast iron flywheel in a 1977 Porsche 911S? How can I tell
if my stock flywheel is cast iron or not?
Changing topics a bit, I just got my lightweight pressure plate from
Kennedy Engineering products. It feels so light after picking up the
stock one! They say it'll hold almost 500 ft*lbs of torque with a
stock disk, and it is 1/2 the weight of the original (16 lbs for the
original).
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info, Rich.
Rather disappointing to see such low numbers, but I'm still
going to give this conversion a go at it, even if it won't
be able to do everything I'd like.
Your numbers now make sense, as I recall AC Propulsion
getting higher numbers on the Optimas than you did, by
keeping each battery heated at about 105 degrees
farenheight, and getting about 44 amp hours. So having them
at 60 degrees makes a big difference, and I didn't think it
would be that large of one. But it's such a large difference
it means half the capacity from the same batteries.
I guess building an affordable system for keeping them at
their optimum temperature to boost capacity might be out of
the question, since if the temperature is not kept equal on
each battery, it will create charging and equalization
issues, and along with that also comes a need for cooling if
they end up getting too warm. I'll have to give it a try
after I get a few more years of education at my college.
Going from 300 wh/module to 450+ is a very significant
upgrade.
The Orbitals are a lot cheaper than the Optimas, so I will
definately be using them, since they have slightly better
capacity then, and are lighter.
As for the car I will be converting, it is rear wheel drive,
and not front. Even then, would it still pull 16-18 seconds
with a Zilla 1k and 240V of orbitals, or could it dip into
the 15s? That performance is still not too bad, at least
competitive with most normal cars on the road. I may even go
with 264V, instead of 240.
Sorry for the long posts, but as you can tell, I'm quite
interested in this subject.
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--- Begin Message ---
I'd double check the manual to be sure, but I believe the T-Rex
controllers are good to 336 volts, while the Raptors are for up to 156
volts.
However, that said, I think 192 volts is about as high as a 'backyard
conversion' should go. I'd only consider 336 volts with sealed batteries
(to avoid ground faults), a bunch more knowledge of how to be safe with
that kind of voltage, and good support from someone with real experience
in such.
As to the batteries, do the BB6000's need to be watered? Frequently?
Cell-by-cell?
Ben Apollonio wrote:
On Dec 1, 2004, at 3:47 PM, jerry dycus wrote:
Hi John and All,
Why not use starting ni-cads like the BB6600?
They will put out the power, almost no
peurkert effect, no batt regs needed, costs are the
same and the ni-cads would last 20+ yrs.
Same power you say? These do look like they'd cost little more than a
pack of YT's, which I admit is quite tempting. However, I thought NiCds
were far from as capable as AGM's current-wise. Or are you talking
about going to a 336V pack to reduce current draw without reducing power
output and capacity? Still tempting, except I'm pretty sure my T-Rex
1000 would bite the dust if I exceeded the 192V I'm currently planning.
Also, without higher voltage (than 336) or paralleling packs, I don't
think I could actually squeeze out much more range (11kWh for 336V of
those NiCd's, 10kWh for the YT's)...
-Ben
--
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 04:18 PM 30/11/04 -0700, you wrote:
> >Some food for thought on your clutchless shifting:
> >
> >http://www.circuitcellar.com/avr2004/DA3784.html
> >
> >- Steven Ciciora
>
> Sorry steve, I don't quite see the relevance. All
> that I see is an
> electronic gadget that saves the minor mental strain
> of remembering the
> last gear shift or looking at the tacho and speedo
> and making a minor
> calculation.
>
> Much more useful if that device were able to
> determine the gear that you
> are moving into and providing a difference signal
> that showed that the
> motor was above or below the required RPMs for the
> smooth clutchless shift.
>
> James Massey
> Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
>
I can very much see the relevance. at first I thought
the same. it seems to work much like your standard
joystick. you have one pot hooked up to each axis; X
and Y. this circuit seems to store the parameters for
each gear location represented by voltage values from
the two pots.
so with a slightly different design you could set this
up were a uC would know where your shifting to and
change RPM's to match as your shifting. put a sensor
on the fly wheel and one on the drive shaft, do a
minor calculation with the stored values of the gear
ratio's and control your throttle through the uC's
analog output....beautiful. this is what I will be
using for my clutchless system.
Brian B.
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--- Begin Message ---
On Tuesday 30 November 2004 22:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am not trying to be hard to get along with,
> but a little more infro would help ?
> ford, chev ,mopar , vw ,custom ??
I'm looking for gears to make a custom 2:1 step down gearbox.
> I drive a vw rabbit. After my third transmission ,I know it can
> handle 400 ft lb.(measured on a dyno).There are a lot of places to get
> gears. Jegs or Summit or junk yard or transmission rebuild shops.
I checked Jegs (http://www.jegs.com/index.html) if that's the one you are
talking about and I didn't find any mention of gears just ring and pinions.
I also checked Summit (http://www.summitgearworks.com/index.html) if that's
the one you are talking about and it seems that they only manufacture per
order. Maybe I'm wrong.
> I have a box in my garge of vw gears but they wouldn't help most people on
> this list.
Any ~2:1 pairs?
I guess I could try a junk yard.
Thanks.
--
Peace can only come as a natural consequence
of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somewhat ironic given that Michelin sponsors the annual Challenge Bibendum,
no? Shouldn't it be as obvious to Michelin as it is to all of us why a
self-sealing LRR tire would be such a boon to EVs, for exactly the reason
that Carleton is using them -- not having to carry a spare tire decreases
weight and allows more room for batteries? Of course, electric conversions
and kitcars are a low volume market, but aren't other large European
corporations like Siemens able to produce commercial products in this low
volume market and yet still make a decent go of it? Furthermore, aren't
there actual commercial production EVs currently being manufactured by some
of the major automakers in Michelin's home country of France -- e.g. Citroen
Berlingo, Renault Kangoo, etc. -- and wouldn't such EVs also potentially
benefit from a self-sealing LRR tire (although admittedly those vehicles are
in a different weight class than Carleton's Electric 7)? Oh well, I guess
it wouldn't be the first time that an established large corporation talks
the EV talk but doesn't walk the walk. It just seems strange given the very
high profile PR ground that Michelin has staked out in the EV arena.
I wonder what Carleton will do 4 or 5 years from now when he has to buy new
tires. I guess he'll have to go with straight (non-self-sealing) LRR tires
and then just live with the hassle of having to call for a tow if he ever
gets a flat.
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
I checked with Michelin - they no longer manufacture the Proxima tire
and do not have a substitute available.
Patrick
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/29/04 12:55:30 PM >>>
According to a site I found on the web, you are correct: Michelin
Proxima RR, P175/65R14, self-sealing, 50 psi max inflation.
Patrick
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/29/04 12:20:37 PM >>>
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Charles Whalen wrote:
Hi Carl,
Impressive indeed! Great looking car and project! Hope you'll keep
us
updated on your progress.
Regarding the self-sealing LRR tires, do you know where Saturn got
them,
i.e. who actually manufactures them, the make and model? Like most
tires, I
assume that is probably stated on the tire, right? Do you happen to
know if
it was it a one-time limited production run done only for the EV1,
or
is it
possible to actually special order these tires from whoever the
manufacturer
is? Did you yourself buy them from a Saturn dealer in California,
or
did
you get them somewhere else?
Michelin Proxima, IIRC. I have a set on my car now,m but they're
dry-rotting!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
...
Like hearing that a WELL KNOWN List EVer got his PFC50 eaten by UPS.
Ow! Hate to hear that. Makes me extra grateful to Rich for
hand-delivering serial #5 to the Canadian border and handing it to my
son who drove down to get it. Apart from 1 hiccup, it has been
flawlessly belting out the amps for more than 2 years now. Works EVen
better at 144 volts in the pickup than in the 96 volt Citroen. 58,
sometimes 60 amps into the pack, and the smoke stays in! I've got it on
a cart now, as an external charger when I need to do a lot of driving.
Just pop home for lunch and before you can wolf down a plate of pasta,
she's full again.
Tonight I played around with one of those LM35 temp sensors. Kinda
cool. I wonder why my DMM went crazy on the mV setting when the leads
weren't connected to anything? Anyway. I had the V+ and ground
connected across 4.8 volts of battery from a flashlight, and the output
read 240 mV, got higher when I put my fingers on it. Cool how the magic
works, sometimes. Heck, I could make a hobby of this.
I soldered in the 200 ohm resistor and hooked up a cat5 cable to it,
greased all the bare wires up with a thick coat of silicone. It will go
onto the side of one of the batteries in the Mazda when it's dry.
Mike Hoskinson,
Edmonton
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--- Begin Message ---
Nick,
If you have a way to keep a load on the pack after driving like
switching on heater then you'll have a better chance of finding the weak
cells battery when you measure their voltages.
Danny Ames...
Lee Hart wrote:
> What you need to do to find weak cells is to drive near the
> limits of your range, and measure the individual battery voltages
> immediately after your drive, BEFORE you do any charging. Any weak or
> reversed cells will immediately stand out as a battery that is about 2v
> less than the rest.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Charles Whalen wrote:
Somewhat ironic given that Michelin sponsors the annual Challenge Bibendum,
no? Shouldn't it be as obvious to Michelin as it is to all of us why a
self-sealing LRR tire would be such a boon to EVs, for exactly the reason
that Carleton is using them -- not having to carry a spare tire decreases
They're working on a system of inserts you put inside the tire that you
can just drive on when it's flat, a runflat instead of a self-sealing. I
don't blame them, but it's added weight...
I wonder what Carleton will do 4 or 5 years from now when he has to buy new
tires. I guess he'll have to go with straight (non-self-sealing) LRR tires
and then just live with the hassle of having to call for a tow if he ever
gets a flat.
Not necessarily. Me either. But I'd still rather have self-sealing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hook this up to your Zilla's coolant lines:
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/mojave-heater.html
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=137942&prmenbr=361
http://www.cafeelectric.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just carry some tyre-in-a-can. Tyre Weld or whatever it's called.
Weighs a kilo or less, fits in the glove box.
Unless you have a major blowout or your tyre's airholding capability
is otherwise completely destroyed, it'll work as well as a
self-sealing tyre, and I'd guess one can of Tyre Weld (at $10-$20) is
significantly cheaper than self-sealing or run-flat tyres.
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:57:20 -0500 (EST), Derrick J Brashear
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Charles Whalen wrote:
>
> > Somewhat ironic given that Michelin sponsors the annual Challenge Bibendum,
> > no? Shouldn't it be as obvious to Michelin as it is to all of us why a
> > self-sealing LRR tire would be such a boon to EVs, for exactly the reason
> > that Carleton is using them -- not having to carry a spare tire decreases
>
> They're working on a system of inserts you put inside the tire that you
> can just drive on when it's flat, a runflat instead of a self-sealing. I
> don't blame them, but it's added weight...
>
> > I wonder what Carleton will do 4 or 5 years from now when he has to buy new
> > tires. I guess he'll have to go with straight (non-self-sealing) LRR tires
> > and then just live with the hassle of having to call for a tow if he ever
> > gets a flat.
>
> Not necessarily. Me either. But I'd still rather have self-sealing.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I live in Victoria, BC and I need to pick up a few EV Parts from the states.
The UPS shipping and brokerage costs are crazy, so I would like to ship the
packages to a Port Angeles address and then take the Ferry to pick up my
packages. To do this I need someone who lives within walking (or cheap taxi
ride) distance from the ferry terminal in Port Angeles.
Can anyone help?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might try this if you don't get any offers:
http://www.uship.com/
Regards.
----- Original Message -----
I live in Victoria, BC and I need to pick up a few EV Parts from the states.
The UPS shipping and brokerage costs are crazy,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IIRC the YTs were rated 55 AHr at a 20 HOUR load. Not a 20 amp load.
Please check your numbers.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
> To get 530 wHrs from a Yt would take 120 Deg F and a %100 DOD taken to
less
> than 10 volts(1.75 Vcell). And of course a very light load. The Yts WHERE
> rated at 55 amp hours at a 20 amp load, That's 660 watt hours, doing
> trolling motor duty, not EV 500 amp quick start loads.
> I expect that this 8.5Kwhr was a high point that this pack made with lots
of
> effort by the driver to coax all the range and all the power from these
> batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you called EVParts in Port Townsend, WA?
They may be able to work something out to get parts to you.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 10:08 PM
Subject: Any EVer's in Port Angeles, WA?
>
>
> I live in Victoria, BC and I need to pick up a few EV Parts from the
states.
> The UPS shipping and brokerage costs are crazy, so I would like to ship
the
> packages to a Port Angeles address and then take the Ferry to pick up my
> packages. To do this I need someone who lives within walking (or cheap
taxi
> ride) distance from the ferry terminal in Port Angeles.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> thanks
> Don
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 14:18:25 +0800, Quin Pendragon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just carry some tyre-in-a-can. Tyre Weld or whatever it's called.
> Weighs a kilo or less, fits in the glove box.
>
> Unless you have a major blowout or your tyre's airholding capability
> is otherwise completely destroyed, it'll work as well as a
> self-sealing tyre, and I'd guess one can of Tyre Weld (at $10-$20) is
> significantly cheaper than self-sealing or run-flat tyres.
Here's one version, seems to be for bicycles but the video makes it
look very effective.
http://www.notubes.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Offhand, I'd say the billet steel version will have that "brushed steel"
appearance due to the machining required to make it. However, a cast
flywheel can also be machined after casting. Probably the difference
would be that the billet version would have to have machining marks
pretty much everywhere, whereas the cast one may have only "some" or no
machining.
David Dymaxion wrote:
The SCTA (Southern California Timing Association) rules say no cast
iron flywheels, and billet steel only for rear engine Porsche/VW.
Do I have a cast iron flywheel in a 1977 Porsche 911S? How can I tell
if my stock flywheel is cast iron or not?
Changing topics a bit, I just got my lightweight pressure plate from
Kennedy Engineering products. It feels so light after picking up the
stock one! They say it'll hold almost 500 ft*lbs of torque with a
stock disk, and it is 1/2 the weight of the original (16 lbs for the
original).
=====
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Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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--- Begin Message ---
Okay folks, how many actually care a spare tire on your EV?
I don't. The TEVan was the only EV I have ever had with an on-board spare,
and the only one I did use one on. One of the first times I drove that van
to work, one of the tires disintegrated (even though they had less than 800
miles on them, they were dry rotted and I didn't realize it.) My Citicar,
Comutacar, and Jet 007 had no spares so I carried a can of
"Fix-A-Flat". Never used it. Both Solectria's came with spares but I kept
them in the garage at home. Again all I carried was a can of "Fix-A-Flat"
and never needed it. When I converted the Civic I left the spare at
home. Same story.
In 25 years of driving of any cars gas or electric, I have used a spare
tire maybe five times. Twice in my own driveway (overnight leak from a
nail), twice due to old disintegrating tires, and once from a major road
hazard (scrap steel in road split tire from sidewall to sidewall). So two
could have been handled by "Fix-A-Flat", two prevented by proper
maintenance, and one was an actual need for a real spare. At those odds,
unless I suddenly find myself with a lot of excess space, the spare tire on
my EVs will remain the "Fix-A-Flat".
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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A couple of thoughts on this.
First off, realize that Fix-a-Flat and most other tire-pump-in-cans
contain propane or propane/isobutane mix. There are a couple of problems
with this. First, when mixed with air it is explosive. Not a problem if
you use the stuff as intended to limp to a tire store. Major problem if
the goo "fixes" the leak and you leave it in there to be mixed with air
from the air hose.
It astounded me just how powerful a tire full of propane/air is. I tried
it once. Got some old tires and rims from the junkyard. Poked a hole in
the sidewall and screwed in a spark plug. Filled the tire with the ideal
mix (use yer gas laws :-) and fired the plug remotely using a neon sign
transformer.
The explosion was much more powerful than a standard military hand
grenade. I'd judge it equivalent to 2 or 3 sticks of dynamite. I'd piled
sandbags around the thing, trying to protect myself in case static set it
off while I was filling it. The sandbags literally disappeared. In the
unlikely event that I ever needed to blow up a car, this is what I'd use!
Second, the propane is injurious to the tire lining. My buddy who owns a
tire store tells me that FaF is his best friend, as he gets to replace
many tires that could have been plugged had the owner come right to a tire
store instead of driving on with the stuff in there. The propane
penetrates the rubber and then when the pressure is reduced or removed, it
blisters and separates the inner lining.
The major risk of not having a spare is getting raped by a roadside
service call. I had that happen once on my motorhome. $250 to replace an
$80 tire. If you have a roadside assistance plan, then that isn't an
issue. Being stranded for several hours in maybe not such a good location
is.
For most of my nearly 30 years of driving I've carried two things: A tire
plugging kit and a source of air. A small puncture can easily be plugged
on the side of the road without removing the tire. Just put a little air
back in the tire, feel around for the air escaping (if you can't, then the
tire will probably hold air long enough to drive to a service station) and
plug it. A tire plug in the tread area is a permanent fix. A tire plug
in the sidewall isn't and won't last long but it will last long enough to
drive to a service station. A tire plugging kit is under $5 at
WallyWorld.
For sources of air, I've used a number of things. Least successful was an
air tank. Too big and bulky. Before the availability of inexpensive
small air compressors, my best source was a small aluminum gas cylinder
filled with liquid CO2. As the CO2 is liquefied, even a small 3 or 5 lb
bottle will contain enough gas to fill several tires.
I dispensed with the weight, bulk and expense of a pressure regulator by
simply silver soldering the hole shut in the fitting that attached to the
cylinder and then drilling a tiny hole, around 0.015" or so, and
installing a pressure gauge and safety valve in the air line. Just hook
up the chuck to the tire and crack the valve while watching the gauge.
The first consumer grade air compressors were junk so I bought a 12 volt
operated industrial instrument air compressor from Graingers and mounted
it in a metal tool box along with some cable and air hose. This
compressor was about $50 back then, about $200 now. They sell a version
with a 120 volt universal motor that could run directly from the pack of
cars in the 120 volt range.
What I now have in my vehicles is a Campbell-Hausfield 120 volt tankless
compressor available at Wallyworld for <$50. It runs fine from a 300 watt
inverter. Sam's Club has a 500 watt unit available for $29. This
compressor works fine on everything from my CitiCar's tires to my MH's 75
psi truck tires. The thing weighs no more than 5 lbs. If space is really
that much of a problem, the rather bulky plastic case can be removed,
exposing a much more compact compressor. I think this compressor has a
universal motor so again, it should run directly from the packs of many
EVs. At worst, you carry an inverter and tap 12 volts from the pack.
John
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 07:22:27 -0600, Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Okay folks, how many actually care a spare tire on your EV?
>
>I don't. The TEVan was the only EV I have ever had with an on-board spare,
>and the only one I did use one on. One of the first times I drove that van
>to work, one of the tires disintegrated (even though they had less than 800
>miles on them, they were dry rotted and I didn't realize it.) My Citicar,
>Comutacar, and Jet 007 had no spares so I carried a can of
>"Fix-A-Flat". Never used it. Both Solectria's came with spares but I kept
>them in the garage at home. Again all I carried was a can of "Fix-A-Flat"
>and never needed it. When I converted the Civic I left the spare at
>home. Same story.
>
>In 25 years of driving of any cars gas or electric, I have used a spare
>tire maybe five times. Twice in my own driveway (overnight leak from a
>nail), twice due to old disintegrating tires, and once from a major road
>hazard (scrap steel in road split tire from sidewall to sidewall). So two
>could have been handled by "Fix-A-Flat", two prevented by proper
>maintenance, and one was an actual need for a real spare. At those odds,
>unless I suddenly find myself with a lot of excess space, the spare tire on
>my EVs will remain the "Fix-A-Flat".
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Chancey,
>'88 Civic EV
>'95 Solectria Force
>Kansas City, Missouri
>EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
>My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
>Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
>Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> ...to find weak cells, drive near the limits of your range, and
>> measure the individual battery voltages immediately after your
>> drive, BEFORE you do any charging...
Danny Ames wrote:
> If you have a way to keep a load on the pack after driving like
> switching on heater then you'll have a better chance of finding
> the weak cells battery when you measure their voltages.
Yes, this will help. The key point is that a *reversed* cell will stay
at less than 2v no matter how long it sits -- only charging will bring
it back. A *dead* cell will bounce back up over 2v within a few minutes
after the load is removed.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Quin Pendragon wrote:
> Just carry some tyre-in-a-can. Tyre Weld or whatever it's called.
> Weighs a kilo or less, fits in the glove box.
>
> Unless you have a major blowout or your tyre's airholding capability
> is otherwise completely destroyed, it'll work as well as a
> self-sealing tyre, and I'd guess one can of Tyre Weld (at $10-$20) is
> significantly cheaper than self-sealing or run-flat tyres.
If you get a nail or other small leak in a modern tire, you often won't
know it's low until too late. Modern tires usually self-destruct in a
very few miles if they run soft.
So, it is better to have something in the tire that seals the leak and
keeps it from deflating, rather than depend on noticing the tire is
soft, and stopping and refilling it in time to prevent problems.
My 1980 U.S.Electricar "Lectric Leopard" came with "Stow-A-Flat
Flat-Proof tires". I believe this is a gooey rubbery stuff they sprayed
inside the tires before mounting. After almost 25 years, the original
tires are still on it, and still holding air. No flats in about 30k
miles.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
> Okay folks, how many actually care a spare tire on your EV?
I don't. I have *never* carried a spare in any of my EVs, for nearly 30
years now.
I did have one flat. By the time I noticed it was soft, the tire was
already destroyed. So, I chose to just drive home ~2 miles on the flat
tire (at low speeds of course). I almost made it. About 100 yards from
home, the casing was so shredded that it flopped over and caught on the
end of the rear leaf spring! That locked the rear wheel. Since it was
only 100 yards, I put it in first gear, and drove into the garage,
dragging the locked wheel. (Don't try this at home :-)
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I couldn't find an address or phone number on the site for ordering or
contacting someone. - Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: other options, Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
> I think he meant the BB600, not the BB6600. Here's a link:
>
> http://www.sg-photo.com/nicad_batteries.htm
>
> Christopher Robison wrote:
>
> >Where would I go to find more information about the nicads mentioned
here?
> >
> >A Google search for "BB6600 nickel cadmium" and "BB6600 nicad" yields
zero
> >hits, and "BB6600 battery" yields only one hit, to an earlier archived
> >post to this list. Of course, "BB6600" yields all kinds of hits, none
are
> >relevant.
> >
> >
> > --chris
> >
> >
> >jerry dycus said:
> >
> >
> >> Hi John and All,
> >> Why not use starting ni-cads like the BB6600?
> >>
> >> They will put out the power, almost no
> >>peurkert effect, no batt regs needed, costs are the
> >>same and the ni-cads would last 20+ yrs.
> >> And they weight 30% less than AGM's in single
> >>cells, immune to cold, can charge full power until
> >>full and keeps full voltage until 10% from empty.
> >> Or use Trojan 27TMH's for a longer range of
> >>50% with a weight increase of 25%. You would still get
> >>good low end 1,000 motor amp take-offs even with a
> >>350-450 batt amp limit. Again cheaper to buy at $58
> >>each, to charge as no batt regs needed and lower cost
> >>chargers can be used.
> >> Unless you need them for racing, AGM's lack
> >>of range for the weight, should preclude them from
> >>most EV's.
> >> Low 15's should be doable with either of these
> >>non AGM options. Faster with the ni-cads though almost
> >>matching AGM's. At lower states of charge like 40%
> >>and/or the cold, ni-cads have a stiffer voltage,
> >>deliver more amps than those AGM's!
> >> And the stiff voltage will help top 1/4 mile
> >>speed. Wacking off 225lbs helps too. Or add more cells
> >>to the same weight and beat AGM's all around!!!
> >> HTH's,
> >> jerry dycus
> >>
> >>--- John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Rich Rudman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Yellow tops are still the gold Standard for heavy
> >>>>street racing and high
> >>>>power affordable EVs.
> >>>>Light powerfull and clean.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>I'm glad to hear this. All out drag racing and
> >>>record
> >>>breaking isn't necessarily my goal, but the faster I
> >>>can go
> >>>within the range I want(30 miles highway to 80% DoD
> >>>at ~ 200
> >>>wh/mile consumption or less), the better. With a
> >>>1,000 amp
> >>>Zilla, 900 pounds of lead, ADC 9'', and a total
> >>>conversion
> >>>weight including driver of < 2,600 pounds, low 15s
> >>>or faster
> >>>in the 1/4 mile seems to be doable, although faster
> >>>is
> >>>better. Maybe even high 14s.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>__________________________________
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> >>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From Pete Miller < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Calling all Buckeye Bullet Fans,
Speed Channel will feature the Buckeye Bullet at 2PM ET on this coming
Sunday, December 5th. Watch Buckeye Bullet driver Roger Schroer race
for the Sports Car Club of America National Championship in the
"Showroom Stock C" class. Roger won the pole position in a Honda Civic
on Hankook tires with a record speed and remained in contention for the
entire 20 laps.
The exciting race was held at Mid-Ohio in September. Did Roger have a
podium finish? You have to watch . . . right to the end of the race to
find out . . . but Buckeyes don't disappoint! Speed Channel taped an
interview with Roger before the race that focused entirely on the
Buckeye Bullet.
Go Roger! Go Buckeye Bullet!! Go Bucks!!!
Pete Miller
Fundraising Chairman
World Champion Buckeye Bullet Electric Land Speed Racing Team
The Ohio State University
(614) 791-8538
Buckeye Bullet Home: www.BuckeyeBullet.com
Daily Updates & Photos: www.RoadToBonneville.com
Please support The Buckeye Bullet by making your checks payable to "The
Ohio State University Foundation" and write "for the Buckeye Bullet" on
the memo line. Mail these tax deductible contributions to: Buckeye
Bullet, 930 Kinnear Rd., Columbus, OH 43212
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Patrick Maston wrote:
> I checked with Michelin - they no longer manufacture the
> Proxima tire and do not have a substitute available.
>
> Patrick
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/29/04 12:55:30 PM >>>
> According to a site I found on the web, you are correct:
> Michelin Proxima RR, P175/65R14, self-sealing, 50 psi max inflation.
>
> Patrick
Others have posted about using air-in-a-can or sealant goop to avoid the
need for a spare. Good ideas, though I've heard the goop can make it very
difficult to patch a leak the goop won't stop.
Another important thing to consider is the performance of the Proxima in
terms of traction, which is not so hot. Make that Really Pitiful. Copied
below is something I posted several years ago. I didn't know at the time
that the EV1 used Michelin Proximas. My concerns aren't about the EV1 - I
think it would really kick butt with some sticky tires on it. I'm also not
so sure that low rolling resistance must necessarily come at the expense of
traction. In the case of the Proxima it seems to. I have a hard time
believing a stellar achievement like the EV1 would do so poorly in these
performance categories. It's just too much of a coincidence that they're
all traction-related.
Note that a 24 ft. disadvantage in 60-0 stopping distance is enough to make
the difference between bent metal and serious injuries. Or worse. If it
was me, I'd look for a different LRR tire, maybe from Nokian. If only there
was some way to quantify tires' grip and LRR performance before buying. And
I'd still like answers to the questions at the end of the post.
Chris
post begins:
*******************
The recent discussion about rolling drag got me thinking about something I
saw in Road & Track recently. They have a "Road Test Summary" section that
lists test results for cars they've tested. There's an EV1 in there, so I
had to see how it measured up.
I noticed that in three tests that are heavily tire-dependent, the EV1's
performance is poor-to-mediocre (its skidpad result was dead last out of
120+ cars listed). The obvious assumption to make is that optimizing the
tires for low rolling resistance came at the expense of grip. (Weren't the
EV1 tires designed specifically for the EV1?)
Defenders of the EV1, please stand down. I think it's a fabulous car, I'm
not knocking it, I just want to learn something about tires for EVs.
Here's the data, with some other cars added for comparison (view with
fixed-width font):
CAR BRAKING, 60-0, ft SKIDPAD, g SLALOM, mph
EV1 149 0.71 57.2
Ford Taurus SE 149 0.75 58.4
Honda Accord EX V-6 137 0.76 58.3
Subaru Legacy GT 136 0.78 60.2
Volkswagen Jetta GLX 133 0.79 61.2
Ford Focus ZTS 130 0.82 62.9
Toyota Celica GT-S 130 0.86 63.6
Mazda Miata LS 150 0.92 62.7
Corvette hardtop 125 0.91 62.3
These results are far from conclusive, but they support what you'd expect -
that sporty cars use performance tires to great advantage, and LRR tires
won't win you any autocrosses.
>From the EV point of view, however, there seems to be substantial
performance lost to LRR tires. My question is this: How much do I gain by
using LRR tires? Has anyone used super sticky gumballs AND eco-freak LRR
tires on the same car under similar circumstances? What was the difference
in Wh/mi.?
*******************
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--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have an unused Curtis throttle potbox laying around that they
want to find a good home for? I don't need the microswitch version, but
will take it if you have it.
Thanks,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've just been doing some research on this to try to get a few more miles
out of my Horizon.
The site with some sensible recommendations - pdf file:
http://www.greenseal.org/recommendations/CGR_LowTireResistance.pdf
I did see one other site that was essentially casting doubt on the benefit
though but I don't have the link to hand at the moment. It was claiming
that less than 3% would be gained. This document too indicates that the
savings are pretty small. I think however that the tires I currently have
might be classed as high rolling resistance :( - either that or I really
need a four wheel alignment (which I think involves a press and taking the
axel out for the rear, I don't think my local tire shop will be up to that)
I was checking out some of the options shown and they look like they are
pretty sticky (according to the tire company anyway).
Cheers,
REM
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