EV Digest 3958
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Rudman regulators in scooters with 4 batteries.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: AC Propulsion questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EV Differentials and Drives
by "johnk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Do you have pictures of that 300zx?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: attack on clean-air requirements
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) race fans
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Most people wouldn't admit this...
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV eff, was, Re: reduce a cars electric-power usage by 70 percent
by "S. David Lalonde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Most people wouldn't admit this...
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Most people wouldn't admit this...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Most people wouldn't admit this...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OT: Gas powered cell phones - for real
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Finally joining the game...
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: EV Differentials and Drives
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Troubleshooting the ADC
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Troubleshooting the ADC
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) In wheel/ hub motors
by "James A. Eckman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) PFC popping breaker
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV Differentials and Drives
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re Bill Dube Crimper idea
by JCT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Smart EV -Glider, was EV eff,
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Re Bill Dube Crimper idea
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I modified on of my 8v regulators back up to 12v use. Thanks Rich for the
10k R3 ohm spec. on the Mark ones. Two regs were enough & I got the
batteries under charge to register 14.28 to 14.41. This is using the regs
on the higher voltage batteries and using them to balance the voltage to
bring up the weaker batteries. Took about 10 minutes of fiddling but it
seems to work well. Hope this saves the batteries. The charge voltage at
float seems to be 28.6 with the Currie/EV Warrior style fast charger. I'll
let it float for a while then take it for a spin and see if the weaker
batteries come back up to the strong ones. I'm doing this because with no
regs I noticed two batteries getting weaker and running out of charge
quicker. The Vego has undervoltage warning lights. Lawrence Rhodes...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why on Earth would I get a bunch of my friends to buy the most expensive
most over, Hyped drive train on the market???
There are MANY more affordable solutions than a ACP dirve.
Most are also more powerfull, Cheaper, and can be maintained by mortals that
don't have a shop full of techies for support.
For the price of 10 of ACP drives, I could design one that is smaller, and
cost 1/4 his prices. And it would lay rubber in a manner that only the DC
drive can right now.
I rather put the Megga Bucks into something that can change the way we all
think about EV drives.
It's not doing what other say you can not, It's doing the hard stuff that
others won't, that changes the world.
If you are going to throw money around get GM to sell thier AC drive out of
the EV1. It was ready for the mass market, Then GM changed the market to
SUVS and
Professional Grade Earth movers...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Vaughn-Perling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:34 AM
Subject: AC Propulsion questions
> Is the Scion Kit ready soon?
>
> If not, is anyone interested in gathering a group lot for a production
> run of AC Propulsion drive system installations for 2005?
>
>
>
> "The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
> -Walter Bagehot
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Shay
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EV Differentials and Drives
Nearly all front wheel drive cars use transaxles with the motor parallel
to
the axle. I'm curious what you plan to do with such a setup.
[John K] Tom,
I would like to build a single seat commuter car based on a Kurtis Kraft
midget from scratch with off the shelve parts. I have copies of the
KK-midget plans that I have been working from. So, it's rear-wheel drive
car. I can't use a modern transaxle because that would destroy the car's
ornamental value. It's the four bar suspension that makes the car sexy.
I'll admit that I've been toying with a single wheel rear drive to save
on weight. What I'd really like is to have the motor parallel to the
differential, like the Dana H-12. O'Riely has an interesting set-up on
his three-wheel commuter bike. However, it uses a standard Toyota
differential. There is a power lose associated with any ring and pinion
set-up that I would like to avoid.
It's still on the drawing board, so I'm open to ideas.
John K
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am just about to get started on a '87 300zx, unfortunantly I will
probably have to put the ICE back in just to get the position of the
tranny then yank it out again :-(
The motor mounts seem so far forward, I am curious to see how you
adapted and mounted up to the tranny.
questions,questions
what year 300zx, what motor, controller? how many battteries, where
did all the batteries go.
any ZX tips!
I am unbelievably exiteed about getting started on this project.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Honda may have pulled the plug on the EV+, but it seems they have not
entirely lost their interest in BEVs, as you can see from this prototype
they recently unveiled:
http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=news&articleid=48
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lightning Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: attack on clean-air requirements
Chris Tromley wrote:
Lightning Ryan wrote:
ps. So why is Honda staying out if it? I guess they are now selling 3
out of the 5 Hybrids on the market. I might even call them the company I
wish our domestic guys were more like. Superb crash test facitilities,
into all sorts of clean "power equiptment", robotics! Ironic that their
Hybrids are the weakest of all. I doubt that even they would be eager to
jump into the new electric "Power" paradigm.
Although they would be perfectly suited to the task. Considering their
body of engineering work. I'de start out with a super-offroad CRV, a
Minivan, and an all aluminum (4 seat Insight/CRX Coope/Wagon thing)
All the car companies are corporations, which are required by law to
maximize profits. ICE vehicles are stupefyingly complex, which makes
them
expensive, which makes them very profitable. Even at the same profit
margins EVs could sell for less, which means lower total profits. Add in
a
very conservative user base, the unwillingness of the marketing
department
to try to change the minds of the users, and a dealer network that would
be
Very Angry about the lost service revenue that EVs would cause, and you
can
see why no big auto manufacturer is a friend of EVs.
Honda is a special case. They have always been seen as environmentally
friendly. IMO, the environment matters to Honda *only* in that it
provides
an engineering challenge that they are highly qualified to meet. The
fact
is, there is no company on the planet that is better at building
powerful,
smooth, clean, efficient, reliable ICEs than Honda. It's been proven in
racing and consumer markets for cars, motorcycles, scooters, even lawn
mowers.
In an engineering sense if you take the ICE out of it, Honda is no longer
#1. That terrifies them. They know the ICE's days are numbered. They
also
know their hybrids display nowhere near the stunning technical excellence
that Toyota's do. Honda has been soundly beaten in the clean vehicle
world,
which I'm sure they find very difficult to bear. They aren't in a
position
to guide the market now. I think they're sitting back to see what
happens,
which means staying out of the CA lawsuit. Preserving their
earth-friendly
image is a welcome side benefit.
Taking the long view, they can work on climbing back to the top with
either
FCEVs or BEVs. BEVs are relatively simple, FCEVs are very complex. I
think
their choice was as predictable as it is disappointing. If anyone could
have made production BEVs accepted in the marketplace, it's Honda. They
didn't. Even though the EV+ already existed, and was accepted as one of
the
best consumer vehicles, EV or ICE.
We need to face facts. BEVs will not come from the major automakers.
China
has a shot at changing things if they can improve quality. I'd really
like
to see a small American company do this. Heck, *I'd* like to do this,
and
I'd start tomorrow if someone came up with funding today. Seriously.
Rick
Woodbury is ready to do this *right now*, with a fully tested prototype
and
all documentation. All he needs is funds for crash testing. We're so
close, yet I fear it won't happen.
That's almost exactly my take, but Honda isn't just about ICE's. I
would say they are more a "vehicles and toy" company, yes, currently
their primary mode of power is from ICE's though as you mentioned they
do make probably one of the best fuel cell vehicles, and have made
various other types of power systems in other vehicles.
I especially hate to see Toyota's Prius "taking all the glory" while
publicly fighting clean vehicle regulations. Honda probably doesn't
have any problems with the regs because they can already meet them.
It would just be handy for say a project like the Tango to have such
an amasing crash test facility. It's also not as if the IMA isn't
already a slick piece of hardware, I would think that it would be
trivial for them to isolate the IMA/ICE from a 50-100kW IMA to the
transmission and go to Lithium making their Insight/Civic/Accord
into PHEV-20's! That would put them back on top of the Hybrid game.
Perhaps Honda is just waiting for the domestic guys to get hooked into
their silly over complex "Synergy" type systems. Only to jump in
with a much simpler PHEV that like their existing Hybrids will still
opperate even when the batteries get old and even fail entirely.
Probably not like you said even they are probably hooked on the service.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey race fans-
Do any of our EV drag races offer any cash purse winnings?
I just got the latest Steam Automobile Bulletin in the mail.
In this issue were the results for the annual 1/8mile steam drag races.
The races were held this year in Berrien Springs, Michigan.
Race organizers rounded up, in advance, purse donations of $2500 for the
drag races.
Consequently, cash prizes were issued for the top 7 places, with 7th place
receiving $50 for not even finishing!
First place steam drag racer this year achieved an 11.15sec 1/8th mile time
and $1000 purse.
Second place of $500 went to the So Cal team and their steam dragster with
11.51sec.
The board and members of SACA (Steam Auto Club of America) have supported
hosting these annual races and rounding up private donations for winning
purses in order to encourage innovation and investment by its members to
push the state of the art in light steam propulsion.
So this got me thinking about the NEDRA and other EV drags----what kind of
winning purses are being offered? What incentives are being offered?
Myles Twete, SACA/NW President, steam and electric enthusiast
> [Original Message]
> From: David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 12/13/2004 7:02:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Bill Dube Crimper URL - more info.
>
> On 13 Dec 2004 at 4:59, Ryan Bohm wrote:
>
> > They aren't the highest quality.
>
> I think this is the trapdoor in the scheme. Sure, you can find lots of
> cheap Chinese-made bolt cutters at the budget hardware stores. They cost
a
> LOT less than good quality bolt cutters at the real industrial supply
> houses. I'll admit that with these you get a lot for your money by
> comparison with the good stuff - but then that's often the case when the
> manufacturer is using sweatshop labor to make something. Face it though,
> the cost isn't all 20 cent an hour labor; it's design and materials. The
> Harbor Freight and similar bolt cutters are not as well designed or made,
> nor are they made with the same quality of steel, as the full price stuff.
>
> If you started with bolt cutters that were comparable in quality to the
> crimpers you're looking at, I suspect you wouldn't save much money -
> especially if you add the value of your time in making them. That's why
I
> went with a hammer crimper. (I'm also kinda feeble, and I can hammer
better
> than I can squeeze. <g>) I know the arguments against it, but I've been
> pretty satisfied with the hammer crimper.
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> To understand the Republican party (or the Democratic party,
> for that matter), it is most efficient to look directly at the clients -
> or as political scientist Thomas Ferguson would call them, the
> "major investors." On that level, the ideological contradictions are
> unimportant. Political parties do function as mediating institutions,
> only not for voters.
>
> -- William Greider, "Who Will Tell the People"
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well maybe. But I have no pride :)
I replaced my rack and pinion while doing the 200sx conversion. When I drove
it :), it had a terrible vibration in the front end. I figured it had to do
with not getting things aligned properly when installing the new rack and
pinion. So today I made arrangements with the shop around the corner to do an
alignment. I even got gutsy and told about the conversion, and asked if I
could get a discount (they said yes!).
When I got there to drop it off, the manager wanted to see the car...of course!
He was a EE major - bummed that he's working at a tire shop. It was a blast
showing it off - just like everyone has said. When he finally got around to
talking about the alignment, he began wiggling things and probing around. He
said, "I think your tire is about ready to fall off". Keep in mind I had
promised myself I'd do a full inspection of the vehicle before I drove.
Well..I must have gone a few shades of red remembering that I had not done a
very thorough inspection in the interest of actually driving. He ran and got a
torque wrench, and sure enough, I had not tightened my lugs on the drivers
front tire. How embarrasing! He was understanding, and said "well, you're an
engineer, right?". Ha ha. He was really cool though. After tightening things
up, and checking the other tires (they were all okay), he said to go for a ride
and see if that fixed the problem. He waited around to s!
ee me take off, and I confirmed that I didn't need an alignment. I'll be
going back there though when I do.
The only loose ends now are my power steering, air conditioning which I don't
need for a few months, and my heaters (which I will need). The heaters are
easy - I'm just waiting to put together a snubber circuit on the P&B relays.
Lee - a 10 ohm resistor with a .33mFd cap rated appropriately? What power
rating on the resistor? I could put my schooling to work and figure it out
myself, but I need to relax my brain cells from finals :) 1/4 watt work? Oh,
and I need to assemble the battery voltage monitor unit I designed, as well as
the high voltage tach driver that has been discussed on the EV Tech list.
But...it drives so nice! I dropped the Zilla Low battery voltage setting to
85, and wow! It's like a whole different car while accelerating! It
moves!!!!!! I haven't timed in yet in the 0-60, but when I get things figured
out good, I'll go out late at night and play around to get numbers. Then I'll
award the best guess with that CafeElectric T-shirt. I hope I win :) It's not
real fair - I can tally up everyones guesses and average them out. But I'll be
fair and shoot something off - 12.5. If anyone still wants to put in a guess,
let me know.
To sum up this long post - if you are doing a conversion, or planning one,
learn from my mistake. *DO* a thorough inspection of the entire vehicle
*before* taking it out on the road. It could save you from embarrassment, and
much worse - damage or injury. Man, I was dumb!
-Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know about the Lupo, but the Mercedes Smart is selling in Canada
starting at CDN$16,500 (or about US$13,700 but you cannot export to the US).
I saw that the Vancouver city engineering dept. has one, not sure why, maybe
for parking enforcement. There are quite a few around town, but I've heard
there is a great big waiting list and a number of months wait to get one. A
local collision repair shop bought one for a loaner but the owner of the
shop likes it so much he is using it to commute. It is an efficient diesel,
averages 4.2 litres per 100 kilometres, so that is about 56 mpg.
http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/getsmart/
http://www.thesmart.ca
>From the website:
"The average fuel consumption of the smart cdi is a thrifty 4.2 litres of
diesel per 100 km. And, it emits a mere 90 g of CO2 per kilometre.
The smart cdi makes a real contribution to climate protection, but to see
many of the its advantages you may need to take a second look. The smart
does not need expensive, energy-intensive, lightweight materials, such as
aluminium or magnesium, to achieve structural soundness. Instead, the
efficient design of the 160-kg steel tridion safety cell provides solid
protection to the car, which weighs just 730 kg.
The way we drive can further lighten the load on the environment.
Over-revving the engine doesn't increase driving pleasure -- it just
increases consumption, as does driving with under-inflated tires or carrying
unnecessary weight. To this end, the smart is equipped with a gear shift
indicator that helps you select the most economical gear."
Using this vehicle with bio-diesel or as an electric vehicle donor would be
even better.
David
S. David Lalonde / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Liion Power Products Inc. / http://www.liionpower.com
Li-ion & NiMH batteries for electric cycles & more!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liion_power_products/
http://liionpower.blogspot.com
Ph: 604 880 1928
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: EV eff, was, Re: reduce a cars electric-power usage by 70
percent
> I've known about these cars for years, and I would dearly love to own one,
but
> they are not imported to the US, nor will they be.
>
> The CLAIMED reason is they can only run on low sulfur diesel and we don't
have
> that in the states, but I'm willing to be that if it DID become available
the
> big 3 and others would do there damndest to keep them out of the country.
>
> I't becomes hard to say "we can't make a car that gets 35 miles per gallon
> without bankrupting the company" when there is one that gets over twice
that on
> the market.
>
> James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 15:00 -0700, Ryan Bohm wrote:
> Well maybe. But I have no pride :)
>
> I replaced my rack and pinion while doing the 200sx conversion. When I drove
> it :), it had a
> terrible vibration in the front end. I figured it had to do with not getting
> things aligned
Mine car had the same problem.. as it turned out the problem actually
was the alignment. I torque'd the lug nuts to spec (the MR2 has a low
88lb/ft torque to avoid warping the brake rotors, or so I'm told) .. and
a week later they were loose again. Took the car for an alignment: Toe
was out on that wheel by .33 degrees, spec says no more than .08degrees.
My energy usage to make my 14 mile round trip to work dropped by more
than 50%.
Mark
--
Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm wrote:
> [snip] The heaters are easy - I'm just waiting to put together
> a snubber circuit on the P&B relays. Lee - a 10 ohm resistor
> with a .33mFd cap rated appropriately?
Close enough. You can get out your 'scope and carefully pick the exact
values needed -- but it's not critical and there is a wide latitude.
> What power rating on the resistor? ... 1/4 watt work?
Yes... once. And then it will go *bang* and not work any more! :-)
The resistor in a snubber lead a hard life. The average power it
dissipates is essentially zero, but the PEAK power is tremendous. You
have to use either a wirewound or carbon composition resistor (NOT
carbon film) to withstand the surge. A 1 watt rating should be
sufficient.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Laughter!!!
I took Goldie in for new front end carrier bearing replacement, the guy
tightened up the main axle nut with a 200 lbs air wrench... It specs at
like 185.. And hey it drove like Fiesta.
GaWd I was embarrassed.... Torque everything with good wrench.... twice, and
those of us with Dyslexia... one more time.
So.....Been there done that. Still have the bruises on my Ribs from the DCP
crew After I told them about it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:00 PM
Subject: Most people wouldn't admit this...
> Well maybe. But I have no pride :)
>
> I replaced my rack and pinion while doing the 200sx conversion. When I
drove it :), it had a terrible vibration in the front end. I figured it had
to do with not getting things aligned properly when installing the new rack
and pinion. So today I made arrangements with the shop around the corner to
do an alignment. I even got gutsy and told about the conversion, and asked
if I could get a discount (they said yes!).
>
> When I got there to drop it off, the manager wanted to see the car...of
course! He was a EE major - bummed that he's working at a tire shop. It
was a blast showing it off - just like everyone has said. When he finally
got around to talking about the alignment, he began wiggling things and
probing around. He said, "I think your tire is about ready to fall off".
Keep in mind I had promised myself I'd do a full inspection of the vehicle
before I drove. Well..I must have gone a few shades of red remembering that
I had not done a very thorough inspection in the interest of actually
driving. He ran and got a torque wrench, and sure enough, I had not
tightened my lugs on the drivers front tire. How embarrasing! He was
understanding, and said "well, you're an engineer, right?". Ha ha. He was
really cool though. After tightening things up, and checking the other
tires (they were all okay), he said to go for a ride and see if that fixed
the problem. He waited around to s!
> ee me take off, and I confirmed that I didn't need an alignment. I'll be
going back there though when I do.
>
> The only loose ends now are my power steering, air conditioning which I
don't need for a few months, and my heaters (which I will need). The
heaters are easy - I'm just waiting to put together a snubber circuit on the
P&B relays. Lee - a 10 ohm resistor with a .33mFd cap rated appropriately?
What power rating on the resistor? I could put my schooling to work and
figure it out myself, but I need to relax my brain cells from finals :) 1/4
watt work? Oh, and I need to assemble the battery voltage monitor unit I
designed, as well as the high voltage tach driver that has been discussed on
the EV Tech list.
>
> But...it drives so nice! I dropped the Zilla Low battery voltage setting
to 85, and wow! It's like a whole different car while accelerating! It
moves!!!!!! I haven't timed in yet in the 0-60, but when I get things
figured out good, I'll go out late at night and play around to get numbers.
Then I'll award the best guess with that CafeElectric T-shirt. I hope I win
:) It's not real fair - I can tally up everyones guesses and average them
out. But I'll be fair and shoot something off - 12.5. If anyone still
wants to put in a guess, let me know.
>
> To sum up this long post - if you are doing a conversion, or planning one,
learn from my mistake. *DO* a thorough inspection of the entire vehicle
*before* taking it out on the road. It could save you from embarrassment,
and much worse - damage or injury. Man, I was dumb!
>
> -Ryan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It may not be useful much longer. The gas-powered cell phone may
actually become a reality
First, let me say that the argument about gas powered cell phones was a
great one.
Didn't check that blog, but I can say that MIT has been working on
micro-turbine technology for the replacement of batteries in cell phones
and laptops. The idea is to keep the identical battery footprint, but
instead of battery innards you have 1/6 of the space dedicated to micro
power production devices and 5/6 of the battery case's internal space
dedicated to butane fuel storage.
This project is funded in part by DOD who wants these power packs for
computerized soldiers in the field so that they can run for weeks
without recharging, replacing the super expensive and very exotic
non-rechargable primary cells they are using now.
Also, DOE has a project in Easter Washington involving a fuel cell (with
catalyzer) that fits on the head of a dime with similar applications.
It will be very interesting to see how this all sorts itself out with
all the technology convergence we are seeing.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is an interesting clip from that article:
"GM expects to make fuel cell vehicles commercially available by 2010."
Do you think they are going to keep pushing the date back? Or hail a new
tech that is only 15 years away after the challenges of hydrogen creation
storage and/or transport remain difficult to solve?
Thanks!
On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 10:25:20AM -0600, Brown, Jay wrote:
>
> Thought this might be of interest to the list.
>
> Looks like GM and Chrysler are getting into the hybrid business.
>
> http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2945925
>
>
> Jay
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I would like to build a single seat commuter car based on a Kurtis Kraft
> midget from scratch with off the shelve parts. I have copies of the
> KK-midget plans that I have been working from. So, it's rear-wheel drive
> car. I can't use a modern transaxle because that would destroy the car's
> ornamental value. It's the four bar suspension that makes the car sexy.
Hub Motors?
DAC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can't this be diagnosed by disconnecting the "good" field coils and
seeing if it even spins the motor in neutral?
Seth
On Dec 14, 2004, at 1:30 AM, Rich Rudman wrote:
GOT IT !!
This is the kind of experience that is painfull, but makes you a much
better
EV tech guy.
Yea.... I fear that there is still damage inside the motor, The
leads
are copper welded and area real bitch to work on. you need a copper
welder
to do it right. Solder is not good enough.
Having one 1/2 the fields lit up , and getting REALLY hot is not going
to be
a pretty sight, But it fully explains the massive lack of power. In
essence
you have a 4.5 inch motor... aka 1/2 the 9. Buck up Ma Boy , you may
still
have twice the motor when you see the light of day on this Opps!.
We gotta name ya for it.....All us Evers get named, and it stings when
we
do....
Plasma Boy, Darn near burnd up his White Zombie.....
This is exactly what you needed to find, something simple but Ugly.
Q Rod to get you a set of field coils. It's better than a whole motor.
Oh yea Ohming the motor is rather foolish. A good motor is 0.004 ohms,
You
need to do a 12 volts 100 to 200 amps of current, then measure the
instant
amps and volts, Then calculate the ohms for that.
We need a 12 jumper cable test to find out if both field pair are in
parallel.
If one field set is down your burshes should look a LOT different on
the set
the is carring curren than the ones that don't Hopefully there is
minimal
damage to the set that was doing all the work.
Thank your start that you only had a 600, The 1200 would have blown a
single
set of coils up in just a few minutes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting the ADC
Hi,
Well, I found something bad while under the Jeep yesterday. I was
reconnecting the wires to the motor at terminals A2 and A1, while I
was
reassembling the motor. I brushed against the negative wire to the
motor
(goes to the hard to see/reach terminal S1), and to my horror saw the
lug at terminal S1 moving about freely. Just great, the connection was
very loose. How the hell could that have happened??
So, being the optimist I am, I simply tried tightening the nut on the
terminal. No good, it wasn't tightening one bit. So, I took it off,
only
to see that half of terminal S1's thread is now completely melted off.
This is in addition to the bolt and washer being burnt, corroded, and
now pitted due to arcing. Oh, and the plastic ring around the terminal
looks half melted, and the rubber boot covering the connection is very
melted (No wonder there were weird smells coming from the motor!)
After some practice, I was able to find a way to get the camera up in
there to get pictures of S1 (and the other stuff). Here:
http://driveev.com/temp/motor/melted/
I am extremely embarrassed that I didn't notice this before, but one
problem is that S1 is in a position where it is hard to see (and I was
apparently too stupid to think of tugging on the wires to make sure
the
connections were snug.) :-(
So anyways, I got out a file and ground off all the corrosion and burn
marks on the eyelet, and nut, and installed a new washer. I then put
the
eyelet back on the terminal and put extra washers between it and the
nut
so the nut wouldn't need to screw on to as much thread, and thus I got
the connection snug now. Obviously this is by no means a permanent
fix.
With the eyelet bolted back up to S1, hopefully making a better
connection than it had before, I went for a short drive to see if
there
was any difference in performance. Starting off from a stop is still
just as lousy, BUT, once the Jeep is moving, I noticed that the
performance is *noticeably* better than before. For example, I can put
it in 3rd going 25mph and still have good acceleration on flat surface
(before, If I tried 3rd while going that slow I'd be flooring it and
basically going nowhere).
So, I believe that this connection was/is one of my big problems. I
still need to fix it (replace it?). My other concern is if it was
getting hot enough at the terminal to melt plastic, rubber, and pit
the
metal contact surfaces, is there a possibility I've damaged the
electrical connections inside the motor that are soldered (?) to
terminal S1? Since the two series sets of coils are connected in
parallel between S1 and S2, I wonder if one coil set's connection to
S1
could have been melted off or been damaged, leaving only one set of
coils functioning in the motor. This could explain the lousy
performance
and the heating of the motor, while still having continuity between S1
and S2 (which I know there is and should be).
I still can't believe S1 had been so loose and I was too stupid to
ever
check or notice it :-/
The mystery continues?... (I'm still looking to take this motor to a
shop for inspection)...
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When connections aren't tight they can act like resistors. When you put it
in third and floored it and nothing. Yes no speed but I bet that connection
was red hot. If you want to be safe take the motor out and replace the
bolt. Lawrence Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting the ADC
Hi,
Well, I found something bad while under the Jeep yesterday. I was
reconnecting the wires to the motor at terminals A2 and A1, while I was
reassembling the motor. I brushed against the negative wire to the motor
(goes to the hard to see/reach terminal S1), and to my horror saw the
lug at terminal S1 moving about freely. Just great, the connection was
very loose. How the hell could that have happened??
So, being the optimist I am, I simply tried tightening the nut on the
terminal. No good, it wasn't tightening one bit. So, I took it off, only
to see that half of terminal S1's thread is now completely melted off.
This is in addition to the bolt and washer being burnt, corroded, and
now pitted due to arcing. Oh, and the plastic ring around the terminal
looks half melted, and the rubber boot covering the connection is very
melted (No wonder there were weird smells coming from the motor!)
After some practice, I was able to find a way to get the camera up in
there to get pictures of S1 (and the other stuff). Here:
http://driveev.com/temp/motor/melted/
I am extremely embarrassed that I didn't notice this before, but one
problem is that S1 is in a position where it is hard to see (and I was
apparently too stupid to think of tugging on the wires to make sure the
connections were snug.) :-(
So anyways, I got out a file and ground off all the corrosion and burn
marks on the eyelet, and nut, and installed a new washer. I then put the
eyelet back on the terminal and put extra washers between it and the nut
so the nut wouldn't need to screw on to as much thread, and thus I got
the connection snug now. Obviously this is by no means a permanent fix.
With the eyelet bolted back up to S1, hopefully making a better
connection than it had before, I went for a short drive to see if there
was any difference in performance. Starting off from a stop is still
just as lousy, BUT, once the Jeep is moving, I noticed that the
performance is *noticeably* better than before. For example, I can put
it in 3rd going 25mph and still have good acceleration on flat surface
(before, If I tried 3rd while going that slow I'd be flooring it and
basically going nowhere).
So, I believe that this connection was/is one of my big problems. I
still need to fix it (replace it?). My other concern is if it was
getting hot enough at the terminal to melt plastic, rubber, and pit the
metal contact surfaces, is there a possibility I've damaged the
electrical connections inside the motor that are soldered (?) to
terminal S1? Since the two series sets of coils are connected in
parallel between S1 and S2, I wonder if one coil set's connection to S1
could have been melted off or been damaged, leaving only one set of
coils functioning in the motor. This could explain the lousy performance
and the heating of the motor, while still having continuity between S1
and S2 (which I know there is and should be).
I still can't believe S1 had been so loose and I was too stupid to ever
check or notice it :-/
The mystery continues?... (I'm still looking to take this motor to a
shop for inspection)...
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone on the list done a conversion or have a link to a conversion done
with in wheel/ hub motors? I believe GM prototyped several S10s in the late 90s
using this technology.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi again,
My house wiring is apparently no match for my wonderful PFC-20. I keep
popping the breaker with the amps on the charger at only about half.
It's a 20 amp breaker. Any ideas?
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
Christmas Discounts throughout the season!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:12 AM -0800 on 12/14/04, Andrew Letton wrote:
I assume you're referring to the Doran three wheeler. It uses a
Subaru transaxle to drive the front wheels. I'm not sure what
hub/spindle is used for the rear wheel, but the swingarm is custom.
(I believe it was the second Doran three wheeler (dark green) that
was built at Cal Poly when I was there in the late 80's/early 90's.
Rick Doran was an instructor there at the time.)
The rear wheel is one of the rear wheels from the donor Subaru. The
swingarm is custom made to fit it.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Dave"
If removing the cable from the car is not a problem, could you use a
bench vise to do the crimp? Seems like you could make a jig that fits
in the jaws without having to weld or cut them. It would certainly be
slower, but easier for someone without the welder or the bolt
cutters. Just my two cents.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
================
This has to be the best idea for a DIY crimper this side of the
St-Lawrence River:-)
Now if someone can tell me what hole diameter to drill in a small
block of steel ( that I will saw in 2 halves afterwhile) for crimping
a 7 mm (9/32") Outside Diam. connector (from a Anderson Quick Connect
50 A 600V for #10 wire), I will probably be crimping before 10
o'clock tomorrow morning...
Would a 1/4" diam. hole be a reasonable guess?
JCT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
Actually importing it as an EV conversion would
be fairly easy.
Since there would be no emissions, all you would
have to do is the DOT things like seatbelt warning
light, maybe a door reinforcement, ect. But that would
likely be under $1,000/car and likely much less after
doing a few. I use to do the DOT part for a living on
expensive gray market Euro cars imported to the US.
So say someone bought some at say $15,000 plus
$1,000 DOT, $8,000 ev conversion and $3,000 profit or
more if any of the costs are less which should be
after the first few, would be a $26,000 new EV.
Probably get at least $1,500 for the diesel or can you
get it in gas for less?
I don't think there would be import duties from
Canada as we import millions of cars now though you
know there will be some kind of fee..
Panoz was going to import them for conversion so
maybe if someone built a few nice ones, Mercedes would
sell them engineless gliders at a big discount like
they had planned with Panoz!
Could be a business for someone.
Too bad Mercedes doesn't do it themselves as the
Smart was designed with an EV drive at the start along
with gas and diesel versions! If they did it, it could
cost as little as $18,000.
And in case anyone thinks I don't like the VW and
Smart diesels, especially the 78mpg Lupo, you'd be
wrong, I wish they both were here.
But they won't beat a well designed EV or a plug
in , 8hp/1000lbs hybrid ever in energy use/mile.
Now if they put in a 11-15hp diesel, 50 mile or
more batt range, regen hybrid in the same body, they
would get around 110-125 mpg or more and the Prius
done the same way would get about 80-90mpg.
And not have to use fuel at all on trips of less
than 45 miles. And the EV drive would have faster
acceleration, less pollution.
jerry dycus
--- "S. David Lalonde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know about the Lupo, but the Mercedes Smart
> is selling in Canada
> starting at CDN$16,500 (or about US$13,700 but you
> cannot export to the US).
> I saw that the Vancouver city engineering dept. has
> one, not sure why, maybe
> for parking enforcement. There are quite a few
> around town, but I've heard
> there is a great big waiting list and a number of
> months wait to get one. A
> local collision repair shop bought one for a loaner
> but the owner of the
> shop likes it so much he is using it to commute. It
> is an efficient diesel,
> averages 4.2 litres per 100 kilometres, so that is
> about 56 mpg.
>
http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/getsmart/
> http://www.thesmart.ca
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe you could find a crimp that is already accomplished, and measure it
with an end wrench?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "JCT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 5:30 PM
Subject: Re Bill Dube Crimper idea
From: "Dave"
If removing the cable from the car is not a problem, could you use a bench
vise to do the crimp? Seems like you could make a jig that fits in the
jaws without having to weld or cut them. It would certainly be slower, but
easier for someone without the welder or the bolt cutters. Just my two
cents.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
================
This has to be the best idea for a DIY crimper this side of the
St-Lawrence River:-)
Now if someone can tell me what hole diameter to drill in a small block of
steel ( that I will saw in 2 halves afterwhile) for crimping a 7 mm
(9/32") Outside Diam. connector (from a Anderson Quick Connect 50 A 600V
for #10 wire), I will probably be crimping before 10 o'clock tomorrow
morning...
Would a 1/4" diam. hole be a reasonable guess?
JCT
--- End Message ---
