EV Digest 4016
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Extra parts
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Extra parts
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Light terms
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Venturi Fetish
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Gas vs. Electric
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: LED Head Lights?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) HID for EVs (was Re: Venturi Fetish)
by UWStudent EVProject <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: sam's club agm "nascar" batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: servicing wet cells and remaking traction cell
interconnects
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OT - FYI: Free online image hosting links - Sparrow!
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: OT - FYI: Free online image hosting links - Sparrow!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: LED Head Lights?
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) First prius thoughts
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: sam's club agm "nascar" batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Vas: RE: LED Head Lights?
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: LED Head Lights?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: LED Head Lights?
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Extra parts
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: LED Head Lights?
by "Karl Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Wire burnout on the Power Wheels
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: wire cutting machine (OT)
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: LED Head Lights?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) GM Sequel (tease)
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I got my warp 9 from netgain LLC : http://www.go-ev.com/
here you will find specs and mounting info
George Hamstra is very good at answering emails.
Sadly I don't have a digital camera, yet, I really need one.
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Sadly I don't have a digital camera, yet, I really need
>one.
A 1 Megapixel camera can take 640x480 pics. File size wise,
that's good for uploading to the net.
Low camera prices:
http://www.pricewatch.com/m/mn.aspx?i=73&f=1&g=2
Reviews and info:
http://www.dpreview.com/
An example pic I took with a cheap 1 Megapixel camera:
http://img50.exs.cx/img50/672/control18hh.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tried to figure out what terms are most pertinent, but still unsure:
http://www.ledtronics.com/pages/tech4.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> "General Motor's EV1 was one of the first steps into
>>the zero-emissions arena, but it failed miserably
>>because of its impractical nature and limited range."
>
>What the heck does he mean by "impractical nature"?
>Maybe he's referencing how impractical the EV1s are
>sitting in the desert crushed ;o)
The EV1 was also a 2-seater, which is fine for a dedicated sports car
but not for a "mass transportation appliance" of the Camry or Explorer
variety.
>>"While the Fetish is a sexy-looking car with a
>>track-ready pedigree, its sky-high price tag and
>>extremely short range make it nothing more than an
>>interesting toy..."
>
>Uh, short range? 200 miles... How far does this guy
>commute?
With electrics, you have to ask "200 miles at what speed?" That bit
about the HID lights pulling down the range suggests you won't get 200
miles out of the pack at 100 mph, more like 20 mph.
David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>You have that right, many people will say they get 30 mpg, which was the
>last time they went on a long distance drive.
Therein lies the distinction. Is "long distance" 20 miles in a day or
200 miles?
>Also you can buy a ICE for a investment. How would you like to have bought
>a car back in the sixties, have less than 100 miles on its, run the engine
>on a test stand for 15 min every month and sell it for 10 times the price
>you paid for it.
Nice if you have a time machine to tell you which affordable cars today
will sell for big bucks thirty years in the future.
David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stephan from the U of W project said: "Well the infernal combustion engine
will be out of the Fiero tomorrow and we plan to put in either one Warp 11"
motor or two Warp 8's any recommendations? The main thing we are shooting
for is a low zero to sixty time but we are not simply making a dragster."
This is a no brainer. Two eights will be more efficient and produce more
horsepower than a single eleven given the same batteries and comntroller.
Ask me, ask John Wayland, ask Otmar Ebenhoech, ask Bob Schneeveis.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Jan 2005 at 17:48, Markus L wrote:
> Luxeon Power Light Sources emit up to 325 lumens of white light, as
> much as 790 lumens of red light ...
An $8 H4 halogen lamp emits 900 lumens on low beam, and 1500 lumens on high
beam (and that's barely enough for these middle-aged eyes ;-).
You might think that the halogen lamp is drastically less efficient.
Certainly it may not be as efficient as an LED, but before making any
assumptions you might want to check the LED's specs. Most of the white LEDs
I've seen have been, surprisingly, only slightly more efficient than an
incandescent lamp.
The reason LEDs perform so well in battery flashlights is that they let the
battery go flat gracefully. Unlike incandescents, they don't draw ^more^
current as the battery voltage and their operating temperature decline.
That, and the fact that most of them really don't put out very much light
and so are very frugal with the battery's energy.
I think that fitting LED taillights or even LED headlights to an EV would be
cool, but honestly, it's a trivial energy savings. I may do it someday, but
it's ^way^ down the priorities list.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
-- Emma Goldman
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>That bit about the HID lights pulling down the range suggests you won't get 200
>miles out of the pack at 100 mph, more like 20 mph.
Yeah I saw that too. I have been under the impression that HID headlights would
be a good thing for an EV. I thought that they were brighter but drew less
electricity than standard Halogen bulbs? Am I missing something? Is there a
reason (other than price) why HID would really negatively affect an EV more-so
than normal headlights?
-Stephen
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back to the Sam's Club Batteries,...
They are made by Exide and come in 2 sizes, one 34 number and the other is I
think a 37 number size. I have ask before here but no one seems to really
any thing about them. Sams also have the Blue marine exide type some places.
Robert Salem
> Speaking of Optimas...at work we have bought 7 optima yellow tops over the
> years. I have noticed some label differences between them. I assume the
> number melted into the case is the date code.
>
> D/C AH Reserve CCA
> 0112 65 124 750
> 3322 55 120 750
> 2130 55 120 650
> 3105 55 120 750
> 2130 55 120 650
> 3105 55 120 750
> 0112 65 124 750
>
> Can anyone decipher the Date Code? Make sense of the rating differences?
> Tim
>
>
>
> >I was in Sam's club and saw that they are selling agm batteries now. They
> >were black and had 6 cylinders, much like the optimas. Is this a generic
> >version of the optima? Does anyone have any information on these? They
> >were only $100.
> >
> > Mike Barber
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:58 AM 9/01/05 -0700, you wrote:
If you become very accomplished in this art form, it something you can add
to your Resume.
Roland
Hi Roland (and all)
Not as silly as at first seems - the local Exide branch ships batteries
200km each way to have interconnect work done. Might be a good addition to
skills offered.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm interested in the Warp 11-inch motor but haven't yet found
detailed information about it. Your comment, Rod, comparing
the 11-inch motor to two 8's suggests that details about the 11-inch
are available. I'd like to make comparisons myself of the 11-inch
Warp to other motors. Where can I find the information I need?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
Stephan from the U of W project said: "Well the infernal combustion engine
will be out of the Fiero tomorrow and we plan to put in either one Warp
11" motor or two Warp 8's any recommendations? The main thing we are
shooting for is a low zero to sixty time but we are not simply making a
dragster."
This is a no brainer. Two eights will be more efficient and produce more
horsepower than a single eleven given the same batteries and comntroller.
Ask me, ask John Wayland, ask Otmar Ebenhoech, ask Bob Schneeveis.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pretty cool, I just uploaded a couple of Sparrow
pictures inside my garage. Also shown include the
golf cart and part of the electric go-cart.
Rod.
http://img111.exs.cx/img111/52/whitesparrowa1cx.jpg
http://img69.exs.cx/img69/9408/whitesparrowc0kv.jpg
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If anyone on this list has interesting pictures of
> your EV
> or related equipment with no place online to host
> the
> images, here are some links:
>
> http://www.imageshack.us/
> http://www.free-image-host.org/
> http://www.uploadimages.net/
> http://www.uploadthis.com/
> http://www.photobucket.com/
> http://www.fotki.com/
> http://www.imagestation.com/
>
>
> Now lets see all the interesting stuff you've been
> wanting
> to show everyone...
>
>
> Regards
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Jan 2005 at 19:34, Rod Hower wrote:
> Sparrow pictures ...
There should be a rear window in those darn things. They just don't look
right without one.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Advertising (n): the science of arresting the human
intelligence for long enough to get money from it.
-- Stephen Leacock
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> I believe the VW D1 "one liter" (per 100km travelled) car had
> LED city
> lights and Xenon for actual headlights. It probably would have had
> Xenon lamps for city lights if they could be gotten in low enough
> power.
Seth, I think the D1 is the new high-end limousine by VW. I found
this site http://www.greatchange.org/footnotes-1-liter-car.html with
infos on the L1. Its a very interesting read. I'd love to get my
hand on one. :)
Here the section about the lights:
" Thus the 1-litre car has Bi-Xenon headlights whose dipped beam is only
32-Watt - but which have a light output of a traditional 60-Watt headlight,
and have the advantage that, on account of this low output, no headlight
washer system is necessary. The entire headlight element is made of
polycarbonate, and weighs only 1,500 grams complete. The daylight beam, all
turn signals and the rear light clusters are in LED technology."
Markus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got my first look and drive in a 2004 Prius. Very first impression:
My friend backed it out of her driveway to pick me up. It crept up under
electric power, totally silent. Just like the Prizm.
Then the engine fired up. In the still of the night it sounded like a
gunshot and made me jump...
Ah well. The Prizm doesn't do that. Later on we'll have to drag race the
Prius vs. the Prizm and see what happens.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A D/C or Date Code of 0112 would be:
2000 1st month and 12th day or 2000 Jan 12
On batteries that have the offset posts, there is a Date code stamp in the
lead pads such as F2 which F is the the six letter or the six month which
should be June of 2002.
When purchasing batteries, you should get all the batteries with the same
date code in with the month you buy them.
When I did my first replacement about 15 years ago, I received 30 batteries
with 10 of them that was over nine months old. I install them, and they
seem to charge up OK, but when I started up the EV with just a slight
pressure of the accelerator, these 9 dated batteries blew there tops!
This is when I learn about date codes and the battery dealer learn not to
have them setting up to a year without any maintainers.
I than by pass the dealer and went straight to the manufacture that can
deliver pallet loads of batteries that have all the same date, same specific
gravity in with 0.001, voltage in with 0.01, reserve 75 amps for 145 minutes
which would be for my Trojan T-145's 244 AH batteries.
You specific on delivering, that the batteries will be inspected for damage,
voltage, load rating, and if you had stud type terminals, check the torque
rating of these studs.
The torque rating ranges from 65 to 105 inch lbs. The T-145's stud rating
was to be 95 inch lbs and many of them started to pull out or mushroom the
post which I think they were too soft.
I had them replace with a heavy duty taper post that the neg and pos was the
same size and little larger than a positive post.
As a EV user, you should keep a battery chart which you make every month
where you record the date manufacture, date install, no load voltage, load
testing, (in my case - 75 amps for 15 seconds), length of charging time,
charging amperes rating, maximum charging voltage, balance charging voltage.
Other running test:
Amp hour used per mile at a specific speed.
Ambient Temperature
Battery Temperature
Battery Start voltage
Battery running voltage
Battery acceleration ampere
Battery running ampere
Battery maximum ampere
Battery voltage drop per distance and time.
Battery defusion time - Amount of time that it take the battery voltage to
recovery.
Example: 12 volt battery charge to 15 volts
float backs to 13.6 volts at no load
12.2 volts at 75 load
11.9 volts after a distance of 50 miles
12.1 volts after setting 15 minutes
which is call the defusion time.
Recharge to 15 volts (bulk charge in 40
minutes at 50 amps)
Recharging time from 11.9 to 13.6 volts
and Recharging time from 13.6 to 15.0 volts
I find that the charging time to 13.6 volts only takes 1 to 2 minutes and
than hang's there for 5 to 8 minutes. The it quickly charges from 13.6 volts
to 15 volts.
Reviewing all my battery charts that go back to 1975, I find this to be true
on any type of battery, that the charging voltage hangs at the FULL CHARGE
RATING while charging to 15 volts.
This hold true for 2 volt cells at 2.8 volts or
6 volt bat. at 6.8 volts or
12 volt bat. at 13.6 volts.
May be on the list can state the technical reason for this. It may be at
the point of the highest resistance the battery is at while breaking down
the sulfation.
When you keep records like this, you can go back for a replacement on any
battery that does not perform as to what is specified. I had batteries
replace at no charge after one to two years.
If you have a battery replace, the new one would be 1 to 2 years newer than
the old ones you have, so I tried to get a old one that been setting on
maintainers for that long.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: sam's club agm "nascar" batteries
> Back to the Sam's Club Batteries,...
>
> They are made by Exide and come in 2 sizes, one 34 number and the other is
> I
> think a 37 number size. I have ask before here but no one seems to really
> any thing about them. Sams also have the Blue marine exide type some
> places.
>
> Robert Salem
>
> > Speaking of Optimas...at work we have bought 7 optima yellow tops over
> > the
> > years. I have noticed some label differences between them. I assume
> > the
> > number melted into the case is the date code.
> >
> > D/C AH Reserve CCA
> > 0112 65 124 750
> > 3322 55 120 750
> > 2130 55 120 650
> > 3105 55 120 750
> > 2130 55 120 650
> > 3105 55 120 750
> > 0112 65 124 750
> >
> > Can anyone decipher the Date Code? Make sense of the rating
> > differences?
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > >I was in Sam's club and saw that they are selling agm batteries now.
> > >They
> > >were black and had 6 cylinders, much like the optimas. Is this a
> > >generic
> > >version of the optima? Does anyone have any information on these?
> > >They
> > >were only $100.
> > >
> > > Mike Barber
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is also a possibility to use direct plug-in replacements:
http://www.ledtronics.com/datasheets/auto_index/auto_index.htm
I ran a LEDification project for my EVT scooter where I changed the rear light
into the LED brake/tail lamp AUT1157-0ER-014V. It fitted in OK and seen
directly backwards it is brighter than the original but the cone is quite
narrow. I also built a daytime driving light from 12 normal white LEDs. It
should be a bit brighter but I could not easily fit more LEDs in the lighting
fixture that I used. The actual headlight is still incandescent.
I did not bother to open the meter assembly and change the bulbs within, so now
my meter lighting probably consumes more power than the driving lights.
For a flashlight, Luxeon EverLED is a plug-in replacement:
http://www.theledlight.com/everled_bulb.html.
I ordered a couple of them and am very satisfied. It has sharp bluish-white
light and about the same light output than incandescent, maybe even better.
What comes to the power consumption, I measured 460 mA in a two-cell Mini
Mag-Lite and 290 mA in a larger 4-cell flashlight.
Seppo
>
> Lähettäjä: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Org: Microtrac Inc.
> Päivä: 07.01.2005 19:55
> Vastaanottaja: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Otsikko: RE: LED Head Lights?
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> > The brake lights and turn signals can be easily converted to
> > LED.
> >
> > This page says each LED at 12 volts DC pulls 10mA/Hr. They
> > say they could make a cluster of up to 1000 LED's.
> >
> > http://www.theledlight.com/led-assemblies.html
> >
> > Has this been done? Is it viable? Would it be worth it if
> > the cost for the LED conversion was low?
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> I know little about LEDs. Years ago I actually knew a little about
> lighting, but most of that knowledge is gone. (I'm the poster boy for the
> "Use It or Lose It" campaign.)
>
> What I do know is that there is a lot of hype surrounding LEDs. They can
> indeed be very bright, which makes them suitable as markers or brake lights.
> Intensity and volume are two different things, though. Headlights need to
> throw *lots* of light to be useful. The same LED that you can see from a
> mile away might be virtually useless in a flashlight for lighting a
> footpath, for example. The website you posted lists "light output" in terms
> of watts, which is completely meaningless. The correct term is (I believe)
> candelas or milli-candelas. Until I see a comparison of LEDs to
> incandescents in useable units, I will assume the LED marketers are still
> relying on hype to sell product.
>
> Here's an exercise for the reader. I'm not happy with the short life of the
> two AA batteries in my Mini Mag Lite. I know LEDs would make the batteries
> last *much* longer. Looking at the retail store level, I still haven't
> found any flashlight or conversion kit that compares the LED cluster to the
> original in units relating to genuine light output. Any leads?
>
> Headlights also require a substantial amount of optical design effort to
> properly shape the beam. It's workable when you have a single point source
> of light at the filament. It's quite a different ball game with a 1000
> individual LEDs.
>
> Call me a skeptic, but someone's going to have to show me before I'd
> consider LEDs as headlights. If equivalence in performance can actually be
> achieved, the next step will be to see how they compare in price. :-O
>
> Chris
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, I translate "daylight beam" as city lights or daytime running
lights. So it looks like VW thought the Xenon was the right way to go
for efficiency.
FWIW, The lowest power Xenon lamp I have seen is 35W. I am not sure how
much less than this is than the H7 (I think 55W?) it replaces. Will
less powerful lamps increase you range to be worthwhile? Perhaps not.
But they may save you getting a bigger DC-DC. And you will pay an
efficiency hit on every watt of DC-Dc produced power. I know Vicors are
in the mid 80s percent efficiency.
Assuming a delta of 40 W (2 headlights) and a 3 minute mile (city
traffic stop and start)they save 2 Wh per mile. So that isn't the
argument, at least for first things to replace. The DC-DC converter
sizing would be the first reason.
Seth
On Jan 9, 2005, at 11:35 PM, Markus L wrote:
I believe the VW D1 "one liter" (per 100km travelled) car had
LED city
lights and Xenon for actual headlights. It probably would have had
Xenon lamps for city lights if they could be gotten in low enough
power.
Seth, I think the D1 is the new high-end limousine by VW. I found
this site http://www.greatchange.org/footnotes-1-liter-car.html with
infos on the L1. Its a very interesting read. I'd love to get my
hand on one. :)
Here the section about the lights:
" Thus the 1-litre car has Bi-Xenon headlights whose dipped beam is
only
32-Watt - but which have a light output of a traditional 60-Watt
headlight,
and have the advantage that, on account of this low output, no
headlight
washer system is necessary. The entire headlight element is made of
polycarbonate, and weighs only 1,500 grams complete. The daylight
beam, all
turn signals and the rear light clusters are in LED technology."
Markus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't had time to read through these all posts on this subject. But if
someone has a product code, company name, link, etc. I would greatly
appreciate it they could email me. I am looking for plug and play type
technology for standard automotive use, i.e. older Ford and GM's. They have
to be bright but not road worthy specifically, it would be an added bonus,
but not necessary. If someone on here is a representative of a company, I
have likely 25+ sets sold for you, and will have a tech article published
for you in a racing magazine.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 5:08 PM
Subject: Extra parts
>
>
> I have begun my work on fitting the warp 9 into the 300zx.
> On the transmission mount there is a bar with 2 5lb weights on the rear
> mount.
I cut those weights off , seems ok .
> I have seen this type of thing before, but never gave it much thought.
> What are they for? do I still need them?
> Thsi car has a vacumm pump!, obviously it is for the pop-up lights and
> wouldn't power the brake booster but it is small and for cars with
> manual brakes or eletrohydraulic, it is another source for a vacum pump
> for accesories that is Automotive grade.
>
is that under the radiator , ? the 300 zx I'm doing has electric pop ups , I
did see a pump under the radiator , was thinking of using it for the zilla ,
also the one I'm doing has lots of bells and whistles , it talks , say stuff
like door is open and fuel is low . your model may be different . Keep track
of the oil presser sensor wire , temp sensor wire and the tack wire , you
may want to use them later , I wish I did. also are there two sets of wires
going to the tranny? There are a bunch of wires / plugs near where the
starter motor wire was , do you know what they are? I'd like to get the
temp and oil gauge doing something,
How you make your adaptor plate would be of great interest to me , always
looking to learn , ( and not the hard way) . When you pull out the gas lines
don't get the brake line also ( learned the hard way) .
Steve clunn
> this is try2, i was informed that the email had bounced, ignore if
> duplicate.
>
happens to me to somthinges
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--- Begin Message ---
>
> This is a no brainer. Two eights will be more efficient and produce more
> horsepower than a single eleven given the same batteries and comntroller.
> Ask me, ask John Wayland, ask Otmar Ebenhoech, ask Bob Schneeveis.
>
What if you have 2 8" 2k zilla but not all the contactors , would you hook
them in series or parallel ?
The Porsche 912 has a working tranny with stock clutch and 22 orbital 's ,
for starters and to play it safe I'll use series and a light foot , ,
steve clunn
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a sight for conversion kits http://www.xenondepot.com Xenon not LED.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth Allen
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 5:20 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: LED Head Lights?
Yeah, I translate "daylight beam" as city lights or daytime running
lights. So it looks like VW thought the Xenon was the right way to go
for efficiency.
FWIW, The lowest power Xenon lamp I have seen is 35W. I am not sure how
much less than this is than the H7 (I think 55W?) it replaces. Will
less powerful lamps increase you range to be worthwhile? Perhaps not.
But they may save you getting a bigger DC-DC. And you will pay an
efficiency hit on every watt of DC-Dc produced power. I know Vicors are
in the mid 80s percent efficiency.
Assuming a delta of 40 W (2 headlights) and a 3 minute mile (city
traffic stop and start)they save 2 Wh per mile. So that isn't the
argument, at least for first things to replace. The DC-DC converter
sizing would be the first reason.
Seth
On Jan 9, 2005, at 11:35 PM, Markus L wrote:
>>
>> I believe the VW D1 "one liter" (per 100km travelled) car had
>> LED city
>> lights and Xenon for actual headlights. It probably would have had
>> Xenon lamps for city lights if they could be gotten in low enough
>> power.
>
> Seth, I think the D1 is the new high-end limousine by VW. I found
> this site http://www.greatchange.org/footnotes-1-liter-car.html with
> infos on the L1. Its a very interesting read. I'd love to get my
> hand on one. :)
>
> Here the section about the lights:
>
> " Thus the 1-litre car has Bi-Xenon headlights whose dipped beam is
> only
> 32-Watt - but which have a light output of a traditional 60-Watt
> headlight,
> and have the advantage that, on account of this low output, no
> headlight
> washer system is necessary. The entire headlight element is made of
> polycarbonate, and weighs only 1,500 grams complete. The daylight
> beam, all
> turn signals and the rear light clusters are in LED technology."
>
> Markus
>
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I used a 555 (in monostable mode) and a 4046 (PLL in VCO mode) with a power
transistor and a flywheel diode for a PPM control a few years ago for this.
Well, it was in the mid-70's.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: Wire burnout on the Power Wheels
> Drat. Apparently both kids on the commute to school and back were enough
> to overload one of the wires on the Power Wheels jeep. The foot pedal
> breaker did not trip, however the 40amp fuse at the battery did. However
> before that it softened the insulation on the stock wiring.
>
> Drat. So before I re-wire this, does anyone have any thoughts or
> recommendations for a 12 volt electronic speed control? Must be able to
> handle 40amps max.
>
> Thanks!
> Chris
>
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I'm a few days behind, but I'm guessing this has more to do with
bassoons then with EVs ;-)
Using the feed mechanism from a welder strikes me as having good
potential if can find a decent cutting mechanism. There is probably a
final trimming after installation so exact length and cleanliness of
initial cut won't matter (?).
PS I used to play bassoon and once tried to build a automated paper clip
making machine as a college engineering project.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Would only have to do a few thousand a month at most it could be very
slow 50 an hour at most and it doesn't have to be on while work is
done. This is a low volume affair but cutting thousands of pieces is
still time consuming on a monthly basis. ...
> ...Using solid brass 22gauge. Not coated. No stripping.
> ...Is there such a machine that will cut 22 gauge wire to different
> specified length from 3 to 6 inches? It doesn't have to be precision
> maybe with in .050 inch.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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Ask ME
I am the advisor....
The twin 8s won't fit nose to tail
AS you know Rod... belts are not as tough as you wish them to be.
Ot's belts are... But it makes a tall package.
Even with a single motor the transaxle is in danger EVEN with a single 8.
Double motors is a simple recipe for instant transmission danage.
Double motors require the massive change over series parallel contactor.
That adds rather quickly to the cost and the complexity.
Single motor for now... Lets get it running and get the Kids thier Class
credits... since failure to complete this poject effect thier Grades.
Not just thier ET and MPH numbers.
Something you might not have alot of respect for Rod. But I am trying to get
them to build a solid machine. With the least possible chance of breaking
stuff right away.
Something Team Suck Amps has a rather poor record on.
Oh yea We are keeping the transmission... Gears trump contactors and twin
motors.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
> Stephan from the U of W project said: "Well the infernal combustion engine
> will be out of the Fiero tomorrow and we plan to put in either one Warp
11"
> motor or two Warp 8's any recommendations? The main thing we are shooting
> for is a low zero to sixty time but we are not simply making a dragster."
>
> This is a no brainer. Two eights will be more efficient and produce more
> horsepower than a single eleven given the same batteries and comntroller.
> Ask me, ask John Wayland, ask Otmar Ebenhoech, ask Bob Schneeveis.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> I could not find any measures of illumination on luxeon's website.
Markus L wrote:
> I found the following numbers at http://elektrolumens.com/Luxeon.html
> Luxeon Power Light Sources emit up to 325 lumens of white light, as
> much as 790 lumens of red light, and comparable brightness in other
> colors, depending on configuration.
Ok, that's a start. What product produced these numbers? How much power
did it require to produce this much light?
Numbers expressed like this are still nearly meaningless. "I am up to
100 years old" is technically true, but it tells you nothing about how
old I actually am.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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I love how they don't even mention how they store the hydrogen. 300 miles
range is the best I've seen, but how do they do it? Is it a two seater with
a tank filling up the rest of the car? Why delve into radiator specifics?
Everyone who knows fuel cells knows that they don't run above water's
boiling point. Remember the "1 million fuel cell cars on the road by 2010"
quote in 2003? These guys will say anything to make themselves look good.
Suddenly that has been reduced to we will have made a fuel cell car
competitive in performance to ICEs by 2010, but it won't be affordable.
Brett
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Seth Allen
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 1:21 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: GM Sequel (joke)
The lower operating temp means that the radiatior temp is not as high
above ambient, reducing efficiency. The big question: can they run it
anywhere but San Fran yet? They usually have pure H2O coolant and can't
stand heat or cold.
Seth
On Jan 9, 2005, at 3:12 PM, David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> This is the part I find amusing:
>
> "Because the fuel cells used in cars would operate at about 180 degrees
> Fahrenheit, they require more cooling and thus about twice the radiator
> space of a conventional car, so honeycombed radiator surfaces are
> nestled
> around the front taillights, in the back and on the sides."
>
> So it needs twice the radiator capacity of a conventional car, which
> already
> wastes, what, about 85% of its fuel's energy? I'm not quite seeing
> how this
> is supposed to help matters.
>
> OTOH, if they really managed to stuff a fuel cell into a box the size
> of a VCR,
> they *have* been busy. I just wish they'd put some of that "busy" to
> work
> building BEVs instead.
>
>
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Yea I ended up makingh a bench supply this weekend in between the Uof W Ev
groups arrivals, and departtures.
I ran my "Bad" Orb down to 7 volts doing breakin work in my Kostov in the
Fiero.. I really didn't want to hook the monster charger up to the Fiero...
So.. I dragged the Runt Orb over and hooked it up and let the motor spin...
The brush sounds... were rather sick for the first couple of minutes...
Anyways.. Sunday morning before the Mechanical group got here I was Kludging
up a 12 volt charger... Blew the 50 amp Rectifier....Yes 2.7 Mv across a
1000 amp 50 Mv shut IS more than 50 amps.
I was too lazy to run back to the office to get my LEM clamp on.. and well
Impaitence=smoke...
I got the Strong backs to help me haul the Big Iso former and my 50 amp
Variac over to the Shop.. and hey NOW I have a really nifty power bench over
there...It's feed by the 100 amp circuit, Nice...
After I yarded out the blown silicon,and went back to the 4 Stud rectifiers,
and the center tap... I had a 120 VAC in 50 amp 15.9 V no load out power
supply. It is fed from the power bench set to the 0 to 132 Vout range.
So.. I can manual charge single 12v blocks at 50 amps...I dumped 30 amps for
20 minutes into the Orb... and it just barley got over 12.5 volts.... This
ones hungry... Cool Got nifty new tool.
I can now reach into a string of AGMs and add a hand full of amphours
instead of blowing off a ton of watts with all the Regs. This doesn't happen
very often, but when it does... it's a great way to kick into line a sagging
Battery.
When I get over there today, I am going to fill that Orb up and see why it
is a runt...
Optima says a 4 amp 16 hour charge works. OK... isn't that 64 amp hours
stuffed into a 50 amp hour battery? This sounds rather abusive...
Once I get a venting event. I stop the charge cycle. And then let it rest or
start a discharge cycle.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger and company..
I will get to this line by line.
But for simplicity this Morning...
Roger you do realise that our chargers have a really nice voltage regulation
control, that allows us to hold a voltage and taper the current.? Without a
micro.
So the Regs work while the charger is holding a voltage, not a set
current. The current can go all over the place, the voltage does not.
The Regs Blink...They rarley stay locked on. They fire at 14.8 and open
at 14.4. So...Steady state operations don't happen.
So even with many amps flowing through the batteries... a Reg can still
knock down the peak voltage across the battery by letting a 3 amp pluse pass
around the battery.
So our Regs are activley move charge from the higher voltaged batteries
LONG before anything gets full locked on or goes steady state.
This is a really dynamic Event.
And I agree with you that a really good and realiable recombination
structure inside the Battery would make Regs useless.
This great variance in end of charge voltages and current probably is a
result of "Cost Effective" regualtor valves and slight differences in the
Catalyst in the recombiners.
It would be nice if the batteries came with the chemical "Regs" that they
are advertised to have.
I don't see the batteries getting any better in this aspect either.... as
time goes on....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
> Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Joe is doing a good job of hasshing this out with you, I have
> > been laying low.... I am in no mood to fight.. but... you did
> > pick on a few points that I feel I have to defend...
>
> No problem, Rich; I really do appreciate you and Joe taking the time to
> tag-team me! ;^>
>
> I'm not interested in fighting, but in getting a better understanding of
> the nitty gritty details.
>
> > > The undesirable behaviour you describe is due to the
> > > PFC charger's lack of intelligence.
> >
> > It's not sporting to blame lack of hardware
> > intelegence....instead of the designer's lack of understanding...
>
> Fair enough, but I really did mean that the behaviour described was
> largely the result of the PFC's relatively limited intelligence, not
> because of its (or any other) designer's lack of understanding.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but once the PFC hits its voltage setpoint,
> isn't the charge control limited to setting how long the timer lets the
> charger run before shutting it down? If the PFC interprets the reg
> cutback signal as essentially meaning that the pack has hit the voltage
> setpoint, then the result would for sure be undercharged modules since
> it will stop charging after a fixed duration instead of continuing until
> all modules are full.
>
> > The senario you are outlining is Reg protection
> > without the bypass capability. Sounds like what happens when
> > you run loadless Regs without the external loads hooked up.
> > Been there ....
> > The end result is the over voltaged regs shut the charger
> > down... END of charge. You just end up waiting for the
> > Stiffest smallest Monoblock to have to conduct all the
> > current needed to fill the Largest lowest state of charge
> > battery in the string. Your end of charge point is now locked up.
>
> We may differ in our definition of 'shut the charger down'. If you are
> charging at 80A when the first module's reg fires, you certainly
> shouldn't have to go to 0A to get that module below the threshold again.
> When the reg signals the charger to yank back, I am assuming it yanks
> back just as much as is required to get the reg back off.
>
> What I expect is that if the cutback signal and charger response are
> implemented well, then the charger would run flat out until the first
> sensor/reg signals and would then taper the output current so as to
> maintain the *maximum* charge rate possible while keeping the cutback
> signal inactive. This might, as you suggest, result in a really steep
> taper.
>
> One of two things will happen: either the current will cutback to a low
> level that continues to charge the less full modules while keeping the
> cutback signal off; or, the current will cutback to a low enough level
> that the charger simply holds that current regardless of the cutback
> signal because it has been determined that at that charge rate damage to
> the full modules will be minimal.
>
> Let's not restrict ourselves to what the present behaviour of the PFC or
> any other charger is, but rather let's think about the behaviour we
> could achieve.
>
> > So Roger.... how many times have you charged a 10 Block
> > string of AGM????
>
> Is there something magic about the number 10? My experience is
> primarily with shorter strings, like 6 modules, which is still plenty
> long enough to see varying module voltages.
>
> > You seam to lack the experience that you need to see why
> > I am laughing at you so hard.
>
> Which is precisely why I am participating in this discussion: to benefit
> from your experience! This doesn't mean that I will blindly accept
> anything you say without questioning it, of course, but make no mistake
> I *do* repect your opinion and experience and consider what you report
> against my own experience and knowledge before sending off yet another
> barrage of questions. ;^>
>
> > Even with solid voltage regulation on the entire string.
> > Say 191 +- .5 volts. It is almost impossible to get all the
> > batteries to rise above 14.8. Some do some don't, and with
> > out regs acouple never will.
>
> OK; let's consider this then. You've just stated that with or without
> regs, some modules will not/never rise above 14.8V. So, what is so
> special about getting the batteries to or above 14.8V? Once you get the
> battery gassing its terminal voltage tells you little if anything about
> its SOC; mostly it tells you about the recombination efficiency.
>
> > If you install voltage sensors on all the regs, You will
> > just slow the charge process down even farther, But you will
> > properly protect the batteries.....
> > Regs hurry this a up a LOT.
> > Without some bypass current you get protection, without
> > any Action to solve the problem.
>
> Right; I'm not arguing that regs do/don't allow a faster charge.
>
> I think I confused the issue with the voltage sensor suggestion but now
> that we agree that voltage sensors would provide exactly the same
> protection as the regs (i.e. would yank back the charge current so that
> the fullest battery's voltage remains "safe") would we can forget about
> that and focus on the much more interesting apsect of fully charging
> AGMs with/without the benefits of regs.
>
> > > What you seem to be describing here (non-bypassed modules
> > > charging at 3A) is the constant current finish portion (or
> > > the very tail end of the absorption), such that the charger
> > > is pumping a constant 3A into the string and the active
> > > reg(s) are locked full on so that the bypassed modules are
> > > seeing *no* charge current.
> >
> > Umm Really no current???? If you say so. But the battery
> > continues to take some charge current, Just what it wants,
>
> Hang on, Rich; Joe wrote:
>
> > With regulators installed on each monoblock, the 15.0 will be
> > clamped to ~14.5 to keep it from gassing excessively while
> > the other monoblocks continue charging at 3 amps.
>
> Which tells me that the charger is pushing 3A into the pack, and
> therefore this is the current going into the modules whose regs are
> inactive.
>
> My response was written as a question, seeking confirmation that the
> situation for the active reg(s) is as Joe seemed to be implying, which
> is that one or more of the active regs was full on. If the regs can
> bypass up to 3A and the charger is being held back to 3A, this suggests
> that at least one reg is locked on, and therefore preventing its module
> from seeing *any* charge current. If this were not the case, then the
> charger could pump more than 3A into the string and the active regs
> would just run at a higher duty cycle to keep the charger current
> through the protected modules the same.
>
> Joe later clarified that a 1-2A finish rate is used rather than a 3A
> rate, so that the regs are blinking rather than locked on.
>
> > Yea really long durations... like days....
> > Nice if you are doing emergency lighting and UPS work,
> > Where you have months on your hands.
> > Not so nice if your client is standing around twiddling
> > his thumbs and wants to get back to Work before dinner time.
>
> UPS charging assumes constant voltage, and yes this can translate to
> 48hrs or more for a full charge. The whole point of the constant
> current finish phase we EVers typically use is to accelerate this, and I
> may be suggesting that perhaps a non-reg approach is to hold the current
> at the highest rate possible without the highest voltage module going
> over our 'safe' threshold, and once the current falls to a suitably low
> level, switch to a constant current finish to bring them all to full.
>
> > Are we making progress Roger???, or are you just going to
> > argue some more?
>
> Yes absolutely! ;^>
>
> > Do you have a test pack???? Are you seeing
> > the same things as I do????
>
> I have test packs (YTs and other AGMs), and I do see many of the same
> things you do. However, I haven't got a set of regs, so I am relying on
> you being able to stop laughing at me long enough to help me to fully
> understand how a pack behaves with regs, and all of the reasons why you
> think what regs do (or seem to do) for you is so crucial to properly
> charging AGMs.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
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