EV Digest 4028
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Prestolite motor on ebay
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Longer range thought.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Vego 450 controller needed
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Hydrogen car discussion on NPR TOTN
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Wayland response to Rush Limbaugh.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: New Yahoo Group-EVAOSC-speakers for Jan. & Feb. 2005
by Ivan Workman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: save those gas lines
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
by Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: How to take action, EM, EV truck? (was: RE: save the EV Rangers)
by Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Fork lift parts for EV conversions, was EV truck? save the EV Rangers)
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE:CE news
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Longer range thought.
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Longer range thought.
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Looks like a goodie!
Going quick-
Item number - 3866925936
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67008&item=3866925936&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll be the first to say that I apologize.
I did not intend to offend anyone, as I figured the
name-calling I used would be perceived to be in jest, which
was the connotation I intended in conjunction with choice of
vehicle.
But one point of mine does stand: Rush needs to be taken for
a ride in Blue Meanie or Zombie if that is at all possible.
He does have quite a large audience, and that would only
help the cause for EVs if he mentioned some fast EVs on air
and such, whether he's either heard of them or actually
ridden in them. I'm glad to see John crafting a response.
This could very well work to everyone's advantage.
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--- Begin Message ---
I often thought of setting up 2 EV's to solve long day problems.If your house
is in the middle of the day, like mine: home->work->home->(errands or
school)->home, you can just switch cars mid-day
But what about if you had to commute 60 miles each way and time was the
limit on chargeing at the destination or you had to charge a distance
from work, like at a garage or a fellow EV'ers.
Why not have 2 EV's leave one at or near destination and just drive the
few miles to pick it up after work and swap.
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--- Begin Message ---
Anybody have a Vego 450 controller they want to part with? Or something
that might work. I have parts to trade if my cash is no good. Lawrence
Rhodes........
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was a little frustrating seeing big auto interests on TOTN(Talk of the
Nation) Science Friday pushing hydrogen. Ira gave them a bunch of softball
questions. But I guess they didn't want a debate. Unfortunately they got
to push some lies with little argument. They made mention of battery
electrics for local use. Lawrence Rhodes....We need to get the Tzero and
Tango people on that show!!!!!!!!!!!
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:21:43 -0800
From: Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: NPR RIGHT NOW
Hydrogen car discussion on 88.5 FM right now.
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4 weighs 3 tons. Even my F-250
weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460 and beefy tranny.
If it's just for inclement weather use, bigger isn't necessarily better. A base
shortbed Ranger weighs about 2,900 pounds. Less motor, less batteries, same
range and capabilities (and easier parking!) Plus, with incentives keeping them
at or below $10k to start, you could even convert one right off the lot and get
that "new EV" smell. :-)
Tim
---------
> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:17:49 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: EV Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
>
> Steve's got the hands-on knowledge about costs, time, and parts. If that 3-ton
> vehicle is diesel, you might save more (resources, money and time) if you
> leave
> it ICE and try an SVO conversion or just use biodiesel - there *are* EVs this
> big, but there's a lot of energy involved in getting them made and moving them
> down the road.
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--- Begin Message ---
To further underscore this, note that I 'am' a fan of Rush, but since I do
not blindly
agree with all he says, and, since I feel he is way off here, I'm taking
David's
suggestion to heart and am crafting a response.
After a ride with John in Meanie and being about the same weight as Rush
give or take 50 pounds I think if John did get the pundit in his car he
would get his attention. John gave me an E Ticket ride. I'm sure Limbaugh
would be impressed also. I can't wait to hear what John says & see if he
can get Limbaugh in the car. What a great thing if Rush had to eat his words
on national radio. It would undo all his negative statements. Lee Rogers
needs a ride too. For that matter many conservatives could use a ride. If
we could get just one and maybe if they got really turned on by EV's????
Maybe I'm asking too much. Good Luck John......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> We are the Electric Vehicle Association of Southern
> California (EVAOSC). The EVAOSC meets at 10:00AM on
> the 3rd Saturday of each month at the South Coast
> Air Quality Management District's facility at 21865
> E. Copley Dr. in Diamond Bar. We usually have a
> speaker usually once a month or a tour or public
> demostration event or a video. This is to update
> people about up coming meetings and meeting places.
> Topics covered include electric cars, hybrids, fuel
> cell cars, renewable energy, peaking of cheap oil,
> US Energy Policy, motors, etc. Usually vehicles are
> available by members for test drives. Contact Ivan
> Workman, VP of EVAOSC at (909) 595-3365 Home
>
> Link: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVAOSC/
>
> Monthly program meetings:
>
> Jan. 15: A film entitled "The End of Suburbia".
>
> Feb. 19: Wally Rippel from Aerovironment to talk on
> current US Energy Policy
>
> Mar. 19: TBA
>
> Special note 2005: The EVAOSC is 25 years old this
> year!
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
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if you like lots of gauges get a fluid system monitor panel and put flow and
preasure sensors in your lines
you can then have a 4" screen with a constant changing pretty coloured graph
showing whats going where and how fast
i rember fitting one of these on a job years ago and thinking how cool it would
look in a car
(pointless mind you)
Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I removed the gas lines for the 300zx and now I have 2 ideas of what I could
have use them for. there is little room in the front for anything and
putting the water pump for the zillia in the back would have been nice, the
long lines would have done the cooling . I've been thinking of running the
water hose somewhere where it can be seen easly so it can be seen that the
water pump is working . Might make a nice display , for the guy who like
lots of gauges, a loop of hose somwhere on the dash . the other gas line
could have been used for the vaccume pump which could have been stuck in the
back , so when putting on the brakes that farting sound of the pump ( you
know the sound I mean) would be coming from the back of the car. .....Joe 6
pack "Look an electric car passing gas , now that's a sweet sound ,,got to
get me one" . .
Regards
Richard
---------------------------------
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
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--- Begin Message ---
> I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4 weighs 3 tons. Even my F-250
> weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460 and beefy tranny.
I shamefuly drive a gas snorting inefficient 4x4 V8 Toyota Tundra. I
wanted to know about the maximum capacity of the vehicle so I looked
in the owners manuel. It is not exactly clear to me what the
importance is of the difference between the two measurements GAWR and
GVWR, or weather the ratings are the vehicle with no load or the
vehicle with maximum load (never realy had any concern for vehicle
weight before). I believe the ratings are the maximum acceptable
vehicle load capacity, although it is not competely clear to me.
The weight 6030 lb comes from the GVWR of a Toyota Tundra w/access cab
V8 SR5 grade and a GAWR of 3760 lb. The weight does seem rather high
to me, but if it is the maximum capacity of the vehicle then using
Victor's logic, assuming that the average fullsize truck can handle
around 6000 pounds, I want to model a fullsize truck around that
average. Mirroring Victor who wants his EV conversion to perform,
even out perform, the stock.
I decided to do some more research . . . .
I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota website. Now I
know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR, but GAWR is not
clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
When I convert the Tundra (which will not be until I really know what
the hell I am doing) I want to keep as close to the same weight
capacity as possible. I want to design it to handle the stock maximum
weight. Of corse I don't expect be hauling loads of bricks around at
80 MPH! What I mean is, when I get around to converting a fullsized
truck, I want it to be as sturdy and strong as a fullsize truck. But
until then I am just asking, and maybe I'll change my mind later and
scrap the whole idea, I am remaining objective to all of myself.
I looked at the Landrover conversion, very impressed. Now I know that
an EV is capable of handling any weather condition, even fording.
What I am wondering is what needs to be done to all the components to
ensure they can handle these conditions. I am mostly concerned about
fording, how well does an electric motor preform submerged? What
about battery compartments flooded with water? Which electric
components can handle being wet and which can not?
As I continure with this discussion group and my readins I am learning
exponentionaly everyday about EV. The EVDL facinates me, and it is so
simple, just people typing emails and sending links to different
sites, awsome. I never imagined this. As I am learning more I am
gaining more confidence in approaching people with conversations about
EV. I started talking to a cowoker today about the Landrover
conversion, he was immediatly interested and asked me what magazine I
had been reading. He seemed to think I had been looking at a 4x4
magazine or a science magazine of some kind. I started to explain to
him some of the sources that I am aquiring information from. When I
informed him that most of the sources I know of are only avaliable via
the internet he was a little discouraged, he is an older fella and not
very internet savy, but he is every interested and wants to know a lot
more. I explained to him that an electric motor far more efficient
than an ICE and he was shocked, this drew him in EVen more. Is there
an EV magazine I could subcribe to that I could take to work and share
with my coworkers?
Felix
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, very well.
Let me start.
Where I work we all drive either forklifts, powered pallet jacks, or
the Cushman Minute Miser. The warehouse is enormous, and there are
very many people working there. The other day I was conversing with
one of the maintenance men who keep the machines running and the
batteries charged. They are very smart and know a lot about electric
drive systems, batteries, hydraulics, etc. I had never realized I was
amongst such experienced gurus.
Some people have typed in their posts that it is impossible for them
to talk with coworkers at work about EV, but for me, no one has yet
turned away when I say electric car. I am immediately asked, "What
about an electric truck (mostly everyone drives either a small pickup,
a full sized truck, or an enormous 4X4), can they go as fast and far
as one of those cars?" This is probably because everyone I work with
have already witness the versatility and abilities of EV.
What can I say to people I work with to get them more interested in EV?
Felix
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--- Begin Message ---
Politics and EV can not be separated, no matter how hard anyone tries.
Sort of like a magnet, one end is always the opposite of the other no
matter what, it is just that way. Living in the US, there is no way
to separate politics from anything, not even the simple act of putting
on a shirt.
It is important for one to express his or her idealism, understanding
of perception, and internalization when ever those courses may arise.
This helps us remain in control of our personality. It is also
equally important to digest the results and responses to our
expressions, this is instructional and helps us learn. As a result me
may value each other more, or we may value each other less. Either
way it is a progression, sort of like an electric motor. It won't
turn if there is no conflict and disturbance between the magnet
forces, or if the current doesn't change the fields in the motor.
Personally politics is important to me, very important. I have lost
long time friends because of conflicts of political ideas. Often
times I miss them, but some people change rapidly and some slowly. If
members of the EVDL are more comfortable without the discussion of
politics it is understandable. Yet there is still no way to escape
the politics of our endeavors.
Felix
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Felix and All,
--- Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, very well.
> Let me start.
>
> Where I work we all drive either forklifts, powered
> pallet jacks, or
> the Cushman Minute Miser. The warehouse is
> enormous, and there are
> very many people working there. The other day I was
> conversing with
> one of the maintenance men who keep the machines
> running and the
> batteries charged. They are very smart and know a
> lot about electric
> drive systems, batteries, hydraulics, etc. I had
> never realized I was
> amongst such experienced gurus.
>
> Some people have typed in their posts that it is
> impossible for them
> to talk with coworkers at work about EV, but for me,
Some Ev'ers can be quite intense about them!!
> no one has yet
> turned away when I say electric car. I am
> immediately asked, "What
> about an electric truck (mostly everyone drives
> either a small pickup,
> a full sized truck, or an enormous 4X4), can they go
> as fast and far
> as one of those cars?" This is probably because
> everyone I work with
> have already witness the versatility and abilities
> of EV.
As you are finding out, EV's are everywhere.
Something you might consider is using forklift
components for your conversion.
One's from a larger junked forklift would work
well in a pickup like a S-10, ect. The E parts last
almost forever so even 40yr old ones with a little
maintaince will work well for it.
Also rebuilding an EV motor is much easier,
quicker than a gas one. This is a main reason Detroit
hates EV's as they make a lot of their profit for
after the sale parts sales, service.
With some mods like running forklift motors at
twice the voltage, using 2 forklift chargers, ect we
can teach you, you can convert a S-10, ect for under
$5,000, much less if you are a good scrounger, do most
your own work.
This can get you into EV's at a low cost while
you learn what you really need. And people you already
know can help you, i.e., the forklift mechanics.
I prefer the older S-10's, Blazers that were
lighter to get better range because of less weight,
smaller frontal area both lowering drag, thus costs
and increasing range, top speed.
There are aero tricks to increase top speed, range
too.
There are many used pick-up Ev's that come up for
sale for about the same price as it costs to convert
one as if done right, keep their value. When gas
prices go up as they will, their value goes up too.
Used Ev's have increased it seems about 30% in the
last 2 yrs while the prices of other used vehicles
have dropped.
LandCruiser's get good money so consider selling
it and using the money to buy a dead S-10, ect and
convert it. If you want higher speeds the Landcruiser
isn't a good one as it has the aero of a brick!! Or
keep it as a back-up.
>
> What can I say to people I work with to get them
> more interested in EV?
Tell them about lower fuel costs as most EV's get
much better fuel costs than gas, diesel versions, even
including batt costs if done right. This saving will
grow over the yrs.
Instant starting even in the coldest weather,
pre-heating the cab, instant heat without warm-up,
cool factor, ease of owner repair, fueling at home
saving time, cash, secure fuel source if Saudia
Arabia, Iran, ect goes down as they will, amoung other
reasons.
For fording, you can put the batts in the bed and
use a sealed motor if that's important to you.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> Felix
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
The ce had a great nite.The new zilla allows me to do a different type of
burnout now. I used the valet mode last nite with 2000 amps and way less than
100
volts to do the burnout.The amps keep the tires spinning but they do not grow
like the old zilla setup,so I now have a completly preped surface.I forgot to
set the normal mode in the 3rd run last nite,the car had a great 1.4something
60ft.(even with the brush mechenism fully advanced.I leave it advanced for
bracket racing)but by the time was 3 -400ft out she fell on her face,until I
reached for the normal mode button.With 2 11.94 runs with .015 reaction times I
put her in the trailer.A quick wipe down and its off to the 1st points race on
Sunday. Dennis Kilawatt Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
I am not sure if there are any "magazines" like HOT
ROD or ROAD & TRACK but if you join the EAA on the web
at www.eaaev.org or via mail:
EAA Membership
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908
they will sent your their publication called CURRENT
EVENTS which will give you some general information
about what is happening in the EV world
good luck
keep learning
keith EVansickle
--- Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4
> weighs 3 tons. Even my F-250
> > weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460
> and beefy tranny.
>
> I shamefuly drive a gas snorting inefficient 4x4 V8
> Toyota Tundra. I
> wanted to know about the maximum capacity of the
> vehicle so I looked
> in the owners manuel. It is not exactly clear to me
> what the
> importance is of the difference between the two
> measurements GAWR and
> GVWR, or weather the ratings are the vehicle with no
> load or the
> vehicle with maximum load (never realy had any
> concern for vehicle
> weight before). I believe the ratings are the
> maximum acceptable
> vehicle load capacity, although it is not competely
> clear to me.
>
> The weight 6030 lb comes from the GVWR of a Toyota
> Tundra w/access cab
> V8 SR5 grade and a GAWR of 3760 lb. The weight does
> seem rather high
> to me, but if it is the maximum capacity of the
> vehicle then using
> Victor's logic, assuming that the average fullsize
> truck can handle
> around 6000 pounds, I want to model a fullsize truck
> around that
> average. Mirroring Victor who wants his EV
> conversion to perform,
> even out perform, the stock.
>
> I decided to do some more research . . . .
>
> I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota
> website. Now I
> know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR,
> but GAWR is not
> clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
>
> When I convert the Tundra (which will not be until I
> really know what
> the hell I am doing) I want to keep as close to the
> same weight
> capacity as possible. I want to design it to handle
> the stock maximum
> weight. Of corse I don't expect be hauling loads of
> bricks around at
> 80 MPH! What I mean is, when I get around to
> converting a fullsized
> truck, I want it to be as sturdy and strong as a
> fullsize truck. But
> until then I am just asking, and maybe I'll change
> my mind later and
> scrap the whole idea, I am remaining objective to
> all of myself.
>
> I looked at the Landrover conversion, very
> impressed. Now I know that
> an EV is capable of handling any weather condition,
> even fording.
> What I am wondering is what needs to be done to all
> the components to
> ensure they can handle these conditions. I am
> mostly concerned about
> fording, how well does an electric motor preform
> submerged? What
> about battery compartments flooded with water?
> Which electric
> components can handle being wet and which can not?
>
> As I continure with this discussion group and my
> readins I am learning
> exponentionaly everyday about EV. The EVDL
> facinates me, and it is so
> simple, just people typing emails and sending links
> to different
> sites, awsome. I never imagined this. As I am
> learning more I am
> gaining more confidence in approaching people with
> conversations about
> EV. I started talking to a cowoker today about the
> Landrover
> conversion, he was immediatly interested and asked
> me what magazine I
> had been reading. He seemed to think I had been
> looking at a 4x4
> magazine or a science magazine of some kind. I
> started to explain to
> him some of the sources that I am aquiring
> information from. When I
> informed him that most of the sources I know of are
> only avaliable via
> the internet he was a little discouraged, he is an
> older fella and not
> very internet savy, but he is every interested and
> wants to know a lot
> more. I explained to him that an electric motor far
> more efficient
> than an ICE and he was shocked, this drew him in
> EVen more. Is there
> an EV magazine I could subcribe to that I could take
> to work and share
> with my coworkers?
>
> Felix
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I accually considered this but it would take three EVs
and there are no pubilc charging stations along the
way so I would have to arrange charging commercially
and the resistance to letting me plug in was to great
so I bought an INSIGHT--not as good as an all electric
but will make my 100 mi commute
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I often thought of setting up 2 EV's to solve long
> day problems.If your house
> is in the middle of the day, like mine:
> home->work->home->(errands or
> school)->home, you can just switch cars mid-day
>
> But what about if you had to commute 60 miles each
> way and time was the
> limit on chargeing at the destination or you had to
> charge a distance
> from work, like at a garage or a fellow EV'ers.
> Why not have 2 EV's leave one at or near destination
> and just drive the
> few miles to pick it up after work and swap.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 -
> Release Date: 1/12/2005
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I often thought of setting up 2 EV's to solve long day problems.If your
house
> is in the middle of the day, like mine: home->work->home->(errands or
> school)->home, you can just switch cars mid-day
>
Looking for a reason to get that second ev :-) that sounds like a good one.
On Tusday's I do a lot of driving somdays over 100 miles , lawn work in
the moring 25 miles , My Okeechobee run at noon ,which is 60 (30 miles each
way then) , then a 8.30 music pratice another 25 miles . Yes I charge
everwhere, with my PFC buck 20 , could I use a 50 oh ya :-) I have 2 ev's
but need to do some odds and ends on the one and have found I can do
everthing with one , . Most of the time I don't pull more that 75 ah out of
my 25 6v golf cart bats .
> But what about if you had to commute 60 miles each way and time was the
> limit on chargeing at the destination or you had to charge a distance
> from work, like at a garage or a fellow EV'ers.
> Why not have 2 EV's leave one at or near destination and just drive the
> few miles to pick it up after work and swap.
>
really hard to justify that 2nd " You already have one what do ya,,,,," am
I reading between the lines.
It's to bad that we are not allowed to drive 40 on a road posted at 55 or 60
, an ev that could go 30 miles at 60 mph would probable do the 60 mile run
at 40 mph , yes it would take another hour ,so if you are willing to pay
your self $10 to drive your EV That extra 20 mph or ev would have to cost
you less than $2500 per year ( 250 days x your 1 hour pay) .
But as we don't have this freedom , we have to push thing to the limit .
I've often though while towing my trailer , if it was a trailer full of
batteries how things would be , and I'm sorry to say , not that good , as
the weight of the trail and batteries adds to your total weight , I'm about
1/3 batteries , with a trailer loaded down with another 25 golf carts I'd be
1/2 which would be better but would it be worth it , . So the 2 ev's looks
like a better solution , with driving them 1/2 way ect .
another reason for that 2nd is so you can sell it , :-) and spreed the ev
word . At one point I had to choose between 2 ev's or one ev and one gas .
I've been very happy with my 2 evs.
along the lines of getting better range , I've notice how much better my ev
dose after a few miles of driveling , some of this is the tranny/ rear oil
getting warmed up , what about rapping them to keep the heat in . I've used
the "great stuff" foam that they sell at the building supply store for
insulation , could enclose the tranny in it , fill up the tunnel with it .
Steve Clunn www.grassrootsev.com
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electrifying Times (www.electrifyingtimes.com) puts out a newspaper about the
thickness of the Gocery Store Globe. Not sure of frequency. I uses the online
links.
keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I am not sure if there are any
"magazines" like HOT
ROD or ROAD & TRACK but if you join the EAA on the web
at www.eaaev.org or via mail:
EAA Membership
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908
they will sent your their publication called CURRENT
EVENTS which will give you some general information
about what is happening in the EV world
good luck
keep learning
keith EVansickle
--- Felix Gardner wrote:
> > I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4
> weighs 3 tons. Even my F-250
> > weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460
> and beefy tranny.
>
> I shamefuly drive a gas snorting inefficient 4x4 V8
> Toyota Tundra. I
> wanted to know about the maximum capacity of the
> vehicle so I looked
> in the owners manuel. It is not exactly clear to me
> what the
> importance is of the difference between the two
> measurements GAWR and
> GVWR, or weather the ratings are the vehicle with no
> load or the
> vehicle with maximum load (never realy had any
> concern for vehicle
> weight before). I believe the ratings are the
> maximum acceptable
> vehicle load capacity, although it is not competely
> clear to me.
>
> The weight 6030 lb comes from the GVWR of a Toyota
> Tundra w/access cab
> V8 SR5 grade and a GAWR of 3760 lb. The weight does
> seem rather high
> to me, but if it is the maximum capacity of the
> vehicle then using
> Victor's logic, assuming that the average fullsize
> truck can handle
> around 6000 pounds, I want to model a fullsize truck
> around that
> average. Mirroring Victor who wants his EV
> conversion to perform,
> even out perform, the stock.
>
> I decided to do some more research . . . .
>
> I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota
> website. Now I
> know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR,
> but GAWR is not
> clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
>
> When I convert the Tundra (which will not be until I
> really know what
> the hell I am doing) I want to keep as close to the
> same weight
> capacity as possible. I want to design it to handle
> the stock maximum
> weight. Of corse I don't expect be hauling loads of
> bricks around at
> 80 MPH! What I mean is, when I get around to
> converting a fullsized
> truck, I want it to be as sturdy and strong as a
> fullsize truck. But
> until then I am just asking, and maybe I'll change
> my mind later and
> scrap the whole idea, I am remaining objective to
> all of myself.
>
> I looked at the Landrover conversion, very
> impressed. Now I know that
> an EV is capable of handling any weather condition,
> even fording.
> What I am wondering is what needs to be done to all
> the components to
> ensure they can handle these conditions. I am
> mostly concerned about
> fording, how well does an electric motor preform
> submerged? What
> about battery compartments flooded with water?
> Which electric
> components can handle being wet and which can not?
>
> As I continure with this discussion group and my
> readins I am learning
> exponentionaly everyday about EV. The EVDL
> facinates me, and it is so
> simple, just people typing emails and sending links
> to different
> sites, awsome. I never imagined this. As I am
> learning more I am
> gaining more confidence in approaching people with
> conversations about
> EV. I started talking to a cowoker today about the
> Landrover
> conversion, he was immediatly interested and asked
> me what magazine I
> had been reading. He seemed to think I had been
> looking at a 4x4
> magazine or a science magazine of some kind. I
> started to explain to
> him some of the sources that I am aquiring
> information from. When I
> informed him that most of the sources I know of are
> only avaliable via
> the internet he was a little discouraged, he is an
> older fella and not
> very internet savy, but he is every interested and
> wants to know a lot
> more. I explained to him that an electric motor far
> more efficient
> than an ICE and he was shocked, this drew him in
> EVen more. Is there
> an EV magazine I could subcribe to that I could take
> to work and share
> with my coworkers?
>
> Felix
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
Once again, I ask you to please stay on the list. I enjoy reading your
posts and particularly like the tales from the drag strip. I know I'm
not the only one in that boat.
Seth
On Jan 14, 2005, at 3:24 PM, John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
I'm just about ready to call this list quits, and sign off for good.
How many times have I
and others begged our co-listers to keep their political views to
themselves, and stay on
topic? Now, here comes the new 'sneaky' trend that several have
recently used. You know
who you are, and you know the drill.....you come on, blather on
bashing this person, then
this one, touting your political beliefs, then, you say...'Oh, sorry,
I better not discuss
politics', or 'Please take any further discussion of this topic
off-list'....as if saying
that after you've had your say, makes it all 'OK'. It doesn't! The
list charter is
clear... NO POLITICS.
Intentionally violating the list charter and the wishes of others by
being political and
taking your shots, then hiding behind a closing comment that you
'think' makes it all OK,
doesn't cut it.
Examples:
John Bryan:
There was one called Fahrenheit 9/11 that looked awefully
interesting....I then approached
a very attractive woman who was standing on the curb and said
"quite a movie huh?". She replied that "everyone should watch it
before they vote".
Bob Rice:
Govt consperesy here? Of course they will go off in a
tirade over the last prez #$%^&! NOBODY here voted for "W"around
here in
CT. Watched "Farenheit 911" again, on DVD . God HELP America. OK I'll
quit
ranting here. This is a EV List, not politcs.
Chris Tromley:
I'm not so sure he should
leave Bush alone yet though....prove beyond any doubt that it's
perfectly OK to be an
evil, murderous, thieving despot, as long as you play nice and make
your vast oil
reserves available to the US. It *is* all about oil. Sorry, I know
that's
OT and political, but I'm feeling pretty pi**ed off too. Please take
any
further discussion of this topic off-list.
Thankfully, David Dymaxion posted the following:
Please, no political firestorm on the EVDL. I'd love it if any of the
NEDRA greats could set Rush Limbaugh straight about EVs being slow
and unloved!
This, is how to state an opinion and make a call to action. Notice, he
did not bash
anyone, he did not rant on and on about politics, and he was still
able to make his point.
To further underscore this, note that I 'am' a fan of Rush, but since
I do not blindly
agree with all he says, and, since I feel he is way off here, I'm
taking David's
suggestion to heart and am crafting a response.
It pains me to see people I consider close EV friends, good guys who
are welcome and hang
out here at the Wayland EV laboratory and juice bar, posting political
rants on the list.
I must tell you all, there's a lot of lip biting on this end of the
data stream, and
there's a lot I'd like to let loose with, but I resist, and I will
continue to do so.
What's it going to take, to make you guys simply stop? The EV List is
supposed to be a
fun, enlightening and informative place where we can all get together
in our common bond
that is our love for EVs. It's a place where newbies can get educated,
a place where racers
share what they've learned at the track, a place where you can find
hard-to-get parts, a
place where you can ask others who may have done what you're
considering doing, a place where
brilliant engineers are happy to answer questions, and it's a place
where friends are
made. Please, don't turn it into an unfriendly place by posting stuff
that has no business here.
See Ya...John Wayland
--
'72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
> I am not sure if there are any "magazines" like HOT
> ROD or ROAD & TRACK but if you join the EAA on the web
> at www.eaaev.org or via mail:
>
> EAA Membership
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908
>
> they will sent your their publication called CURRENT
> EVENTS which will give you some general information
> about what is happening in the EV world
>
> good luck
> keep learning
> keith EVansickle
> --- Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4
> > weighs 3 tons. Even my F-250
> > > weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460
> > and beefy tranny.
> >
> > I shamefuly drive a gas snorting inefficient 4x4 V8
> > Toyota Tundra. I
> > wanted to know about the maximum capacity of the
> > vehicle so I looked
> > in the owners manuel. It is not exactly clear to me
> > what the
> > importance is of the difference between the two
> > measurements GAWR and
> > GVWR, or weather the ratings are the vehicle with no
> > load or the
> > vehicle with maximum load (never realy had any
> > concern for vehicle
> > weight before). I believe the ratings are the
> > maximum acceptable
> > vehicle load capacity, although it is not competely
> > clear to me.
> >
> > The weight 6030 lb comes from the GVWR of a Toyota
> > Tundra w/access cab
> > V8 SR5 grade and a GAWR of 3760 lb. The weight does
> > seem rather high
> > to me, but if it is the maximum capacity of the
> > vehicle then using
> > Victor's logic, assuming that the average fullsize
> > truck can handle
> > around 6000 pounds, I want to model a fullsize truck
> > around that
> > average. Mirroring Victor who wants his EV
> > conversion to perform,
> > even out perform, the stock.
> >
> > I decided to do some more research . . . .
> >
> > I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota
> > website. Now I
> > know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR,
> > but GAWR is not
> > clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
> >
> > When I convert the Tundra (which will not be until I
> > really know what
> > the hell I am doing) I want to keep as close to the
> > same weight
> > capacity as possible. I want to design it to handle
> > the stock maximum
> > weight. Of corse I don't expect be hauling loads of
> > bricks around at
> > 80 MPH! What I mean is, when I get around to
> > converting a fullsized
> > truck, I want it to be as sturdy and strong as a
> > fullsize truck. But
> > until then I am just asking, and maybe I'll change
> > my mind later and
> > scrap the whole idea, I am remaining objective to
> > all of myself.
> >
> > I looked at the Landrover conversion, very
> > impressed. Now I know that
> > an EV is capable of handling any weather condition,
> > even fording.
> > What I am wondering is what needs to be done to all
> > the components to
> > ensure they can handle these conditions. I am
> > mostly concerned about
> > fording, how well does an electric motor preform
> > submerged? What
> > about battery compartments flooded with water?
> > Which electric
> > components can handle being wet and which can not?
> >
> > As I continure with this discussion group and my
> > readins I am learning
> > exponentionaly everyday about EV. The EVDL
> > facinates me, and it is so
> > simple, just people typing emails and sending links
> > to different
> > sites, awsome. I never imagined this. As I am
> > learning more I am
> > gaining more confidence in approaching people with
> > conversations about
> > EV. I started talking to a cowoker today about the
> > Landrover
> > conversion, he was immediatly interested and asked
> > me what magazine I
> > had been reading. He seemed to think I had been
> > looking at a 4x4
> > magazine or a science magazine of some kind. I
> > started to explain to
> > him some of the sources that I am aquiring
> > information from. When I
> > informed him that most of the sources I know of are
> > only avaliable via
> > the internet he was a little discouraged, he is an
> > older fella and not
> > very internet savy, but he is every interested and
> > wants to know a lot
> > more. I explained to him that an electric motor far
> > more efficient
> > than an ICE and he was shocked, this drew him in
> > EVen more. Is there
> > an EV magazine I could subcribe to that I could take
> > to work and share
> > with my coworkers?
> >
> > Felix
> >
You could used the following calculation to find out how much energy is
needed. It works for my EV which at one time which weigh 8000 lbs using
Exide Tudor 300 Amp Hour industrial battery cells, which weigh over 3000 lbs
and are 20 inches high.
It is known by experimentation that it takes:
2400 watts to propel 100 lbs of weight to 50 mph and run for 60 minutes with
a gear ratio of one to one or 1:1.
Therefore:
2400 watts = 100 lb = 50 mph = 60 min = 1:1 ratio
192000 = 8000 = 50 = 60 min = 1:1
48000 = 8000 = 50 = 60 = 4:1
If 48000 watts / 300 Amp Hour = 160 volts therefore
300A @ 160V= 8000 lb = 50 mph = 60 min = 4:1 ratio
252A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 4:1
49A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 19.46:1 1st
69A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 13.92:1 2nd
172A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 5.57:1 3rd
210A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 4.56:1 4th
233A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 4.11:1 5th
246A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 3.90:1 6th
I now don't drive that far any more on my daily routes, so I reduce the
batteries to 240 Amp hour to 180 volts which are only 12 inches high and do
not go below 5.57:1 gear ratio.
At 6000 lbs the results are now:
36000 Watts = 6000 lbs = 50 mph = 60 min = 4:1 gear
240A @ 150V = 6000 50 60 4:1
200A @ 180V = 6000 50 60 4:1
195A @ 180V = 6000 50 60 4.11:1
175A @ 180V = 6000 50 60 4.56:1
143A @ 180V = 6000 50 60 5.57:1
It seems that all the above calculations are proportional to each other,
except in speed.
If I'am going 50 mph on a clean level grade, with now wind and high pressure
tires at 65 PSI, then it will range from 140 to 170 amps.
If at 25 mph it does not drop to one half of 143 amps or about 72 amps, it
is now at 40 to 50 amps. So a reduction factor of up to 0.60 can be apply to
the 72 amps to get 40 to 50 amps.
The Horse Power required can be calculated by:
If it takes 143 amps at 180 volts to push a weight to 50 mph using a gear
ratio of 5.57:1 then:
143A x 180V = 25740 watts
25740 w / 746 = 34.5 HP
My motor is 32 HP at 6000 RPM @ 165V - 175A.
You can adjust your gear ratio, battery voltage and battery amp hour to give
the results you will need.
Roland
27000 watts / 746 =
>
>
>
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>
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