EV Digest 4056
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(UW students saw Mazda beating a Viper: Fiero EV senior project)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(100 REVAs exported so far & another 100 more are on their way)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(GEM looks like a space capsule, does not go 35 mph)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(SF NUMMI hybrids)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Any news or updates?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Force on eBay
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: nicad question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: nicad question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: New recumbent motorcycle.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Awareness (Scooter Regs)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Awareness (Scooter Regs)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) OT: Feet Forward bikes
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: nicad question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Flywheel clocking
by "evranger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: The point of diminishing returns?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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EVLN(UW students saw Mazda beating a Viper: Fiero EV senior
project)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://thedaily.washington.edu/features.lasso?-database=DailyWebSQL&-table=Articles&-response=featurespage.lasso&-keyField=__Record_ID__&-keyValue=11597&-search
Road rules
[image
http://archives.thedaily.washington.edu/images/WI05/050124evcar_lg.jpg
]
JOHNATHAN NG / The Daily
UW students (left to right) Eric Yost, Nick Smith, Stephen
Johnsen and Hans Larson remove existing components from the
Pontiac Fierro they are converting to a no-emissions vehicle they
hope have accelerate from zero to 60 mph in less than five
seconds.
Electric vehicle project aims to create sporty, no-emissions car
By Kareem Cervantes January 24, 2005
Imagine driving in a car that is completely silent, is
emission-free and requires no gasoline.
While this environmentally-friendly car is still in the works, a
group of students from the UW are working daily to create it. The
goal is a zero emissions, all-electric vehicle that has the style
and beauty of a sports car.
The group, which consists of about 14 students, is aiming to
create and complete this project by spring quarter.
"It's mine and a few of the others' senior project, and we're
really excited to see what the end result is going to be," said
Stephen Johnsen, a senior majoring in industrial design with an
emphasis on environmental design.
Johnsen is the founder of the Student Electric Vehicle Project,
which is working to construct a completely battery-powered
vehicle that can go from zero to 60 miles per hour in less than
five seconds.
The team ultimately hopes to create a car that benefits its
driver on an environmental level as well as electronic and
aesthetic ones.
The final product will be a converted Pontiac Fiero, which,
according to the group's Web site, will be a sporty, innovative,
pollution-free vehicle ideal for commuters, seating up to three
people.
"We want to make a car that people will be attracted to and will
want to spend money on," Johnsen said.
The project started when Johnsen saw an Internet video of a
converted, all-electric Mazda beating a Dodge Viper in a race.
This inspired him to build a similar all-electric car for his
senior project.
However, such a large endeavor couldn't be undertaken alone, so
Johnsen asked a few of his friends if they would be interested in
helping him with the project.
"They were all hesitant and critical at first, but when they saw
the video and realized the capabilities that an electric vehicle
could have, they were convinced," said Johnsen.
Road rules
[image
http://archives.thedaily.washington.edu/images/WI05/050124evcar2_lg.jpg
]
JOHNATHAN NG / The Daily
UW students (left to right) Eric Yost, Nick Smith, Stephen
Johnsen, Hans Larson and project lead Stephen Johnsen hold the
power plants of the no-emissions vehicle they are building.
After getting his friends involved, they then began to tell
others about the project. One of Johnson's friends, Ron Easley, a
UW senior majoring in mechanical engineering, was at a social
gathering one night when he began talking to Nick Smith, a senior
also majoring in mechanical engineering.
Easley told Smith about the project and he too was enthusiastic
and willing to help.
"This project sounded like it was going to be something great,
and although I realized that everything I've learned will be of
no use when there is a complete conversion to electric energy
sometime in the future, I'll be glad knowing I had something to
do with it," said Smith.
Students participating in the project come from a variety of
fields including electrical engineering, law, aeronautical
science and industrial design.
"It's important that we have people from all of these different
fields of study helping with the project. You have to take into
consideration all the different aspects concerning the building
of a vehicle, like whether it's street legal, if it's
environmentally sound, properly designed, etc.," said Johnsen.
The first hurdle to overcome was finding group members who
represented the fields of study necessary for completing the car.
Because the group represents various fields, many University
resources are now at the group's disposal.
However, in order for the project to be successfully completed,
$37,000 is needed to purchase all the necessary equipment and
materials used to convert the vehicle to run solely off electric
energy. The dollar amount includes the price of the used
vehicle.
"What we need specifically are batteries big enough to not only
power the car, but to charge it up as well. Other electric cars
have been powered by laptop batteries, but it required hundreds
of them. It would be ideal to have only two big ones. One to
power, and the other to charge," said Johnsen.
The group is reaching out to car companies, industrial design
corporations and overseas corporations alike for support in
materials, appliances and knowledge on the construction of the
vehicle.
The project has already received aid from the Seattle Electric
Vehicle Association which is located on Northeast 45th Avenue.
Additionally, the group has also been received a great amount of
help from professors in the mechanical, industrial and electrical
engineering field.
"Our professors think that what we're doing is great, and they're
willing to help in any way that they can," said Smith.
The group has recently been receiving criticism in addition to
praise. There are several people on campus expressing their
thoughts on the project and its capabilities in a negative way,
according to Johnsen.
"We've been receiving quite a bit of hate mail," said Johnsen,
"Such as, 'you guys don't know what you're doing,' 'you'll never
pull it off,' etc."
Despite the criticism and the lack of funding, the project is
still underway.
The group works daily on the car, using the resources they have
at the moment to gut the old workings inside the car and remove
all gas components. The project is set up in the mechanical
engineering building on campus.
The no-emissions vehicle project has its own Web site, located at
[ http://students.washington.edu/toro66/ ]. Group members welcome
comments from anyone interested in donating to the project or
those looking to learn more about electric vehicle history.
-
=====
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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EVLN(100 REVAs exported so far & another 100 more are on their way)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://sify.com/finance/equity/fullstory.php?id=13654912
Sify Home >> Finance >> Equity >> Fullstory sms finance Business
Line
Reva Electric evaluates new model Monday, 24 January , 2005, 08:40
Pune: Infusion of funds from the US, introduction of new models,
increasing distribution network and expanding the export market
is what Reva Electric Car Company (RECC), manufacturer of the
electric car Reva, has chalked out for itself for the next 12
months.
The company is collaboration between the Maini Group and AEV LLC
of the US.
Chetan Maini, Deputy Chairman, Reva Electric, told Business Line
that the company is in the second phase of evaluation of the new
model. The final product with the new features would be ready in
a few months.
The new model is being designed after receiving the feedback from
the customers and would "surely have more speed and better
performance as the key aspect," he said.
Chetan said the company would be receiving funds to the tune of
$15 million, which would be utilised to expand the distribution
network, bring out new models and expand the production facility
at Bangalore.
The production capacity is 6,000 units per annum and about 1,000
vehicles are already plying on the roads of Bangalore, Ahmedabad,
Hyderabad, Chennai and Pune, since its launch in 2001. The
vehicle is available in three variations, Standard, A/C and
Classe. Chetan said the company is planning to expand its
distribution channel with the addition of its own showrooms.
He said the company, which recorded revenue in excess of Rs 10
crore for the year ended March 2004, is eyeing a turnover of over
Rs 40 crore for the fiscal ending March 2006. Of this, about 50
per cent would be from exports.
Reva Electric, which received the EEC certificate for its
electric vehicle in December 2003, has made its presence felt in
the UK. Rechristened as G-Wiz for the UK market, 100 vehicles had
been exported so far and another 100 more are on its way.
Copyright Sify Ltd, 1998-2004. All rights reserved
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EVLN(GEM looks like a space capsule, does not go 35 mph)
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--- {EVangel}
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/business/10705572.htm
Posted on Sun, Jan. 23, 2005 Cute - and efficient
Palmetto couple invests in car that minimizes pollution
DANA SANCHEZ Herald Staff Writer
PALMETTO - Morey and Gail Oster love their neighborhood electric
vehicle, which saves them money and space.
The bright red vehicle looks like a space capsule, and takes up a
lot less room in the garage than the Oldsmobile. And it costs a
whole lot less to run - about $1 a day in electricity, and no gas
bills.
Their neighborhood electric vehicle, or NEV, could easily be
mistaken for glorified golf cart, but that's where the
resemblance ends.
The Oster's NEV is street legal up to 35 miles per hour, and gets
them around just fine in Palmetto, which is governed by 35 mph
speed limits.
It's also registered, insured and has a vehicle identification
number.
Built more like a car than a golf cart, it has auto-type steering
and suspension, brakelights, turn signals and rear view mirrors.
The area's few local authorized auto dealers sell three to six of
the vehicles a month; they run $5,900 to $11,000.
The Osters haven't been able to persuade any neighbors at their
home in Terra Ceia Golf & Country Club to buy one, though they've
tried.
The concept is still too unfamiliar, and the price puts people
off, Gail Oster said.
"People like to go fast," she said. "They aren't familiar with
it. It looks strange to them."
The NEV is made by Global Electric Motorcars, known as GEM, a
DaimlerChrysler Company in Fargo, N.D. Owners call their vehicles
GEMs.
Sales are limited by price and competition posed by golf carts,
said Robbie Kenkel, GEM sales manager at Bob Wilson Dodge in
Tampa. He sells five or six a month.
You can get a new golf cart for $3,800, or a used on for about
$2,000, he said.
"If the price came down, they would sell like hot cakes," Kenkel
said.
GEMs come in four models, seating two or four.
The Osters bought their two-seater from Bob Wilson Dodge in
Tampa, and paid $8,000.
Gail and Morey Oster consider themselves trendsetters.
They're the first Palmetto residents to own a NEV, and know of
one or two others in the county.
NEV is the term used in the auto industry to describe a new class
of low-speed vehicles designated by the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration in 1998.
Run purely off electricity, NEVs aren't built for speed. They go
up to about 25 mph. Unlike golf carts, they can go anywhere a car
can go, only slower.
And they're a lot easier to pass, say the Osters, who enjoy
driving around Palmetto in what has become their second vehicle.
It's a conversation piece. People laugh and wave. School children
scream hysterically. And the Palmetto police department has been
very supportive, they say.
Now in its eighth year of business, Global Electric is a
subsidiary of DaimlerChrysler, and claims more than 30,000
electric vehicles on the road.
Kenkel estimates the company will manufacture 2,000 electric
vehicles this year.
Christopher Mohs, marketing coordinator for Global Electric,
declined to confirm that, saying only that output is running 15
to 20 percent higher than expected.
Al Berger owns Sarasota Chrysler, the county's exclusive
franchisee for GEMs.
Typical of most GEM owners is an awareness of the environment and
a willingness to invest in technology that minimizes pollution,
Berger said.
And there's a government incentive to buy them.
Owners qualify for federal tax credits of around 10 percent of
the vehicle cost, for being environmentally friendly.
The Osters consider themselves to be "relatively green people."
"We tend to be careful and conservative about what we have and
what we use," said Gail Oster.
The retired couple likes the fact that their second car uses no
gas, spews no emissions, and costs about $1 a day to run.
Morey Oster also likes that his GEM has allowed him space to set
up a workbench in the garage.
Berger started selling GEMs about two years ago, and sells three
to four a month.
It's a niche market for people who live in planned communities
with golf courses or with self-contained shopping and social
activities, schools and businesses.
Florida is one of Global Electric's largest markets, with Sun
City Center and Celebration having some of the highest
concentrations, Mohs said.
The company's approach to advertising is to build relationships
with GEM owners, then allow them to sell the product by word of
mouth, he said.
"We don't do aggressive national advertising campaigns," Mohs
said. "Our approach is more of a subliminal one."
Shifting the American view of the auto from a
speed-and-muscle-car mentality to a more environmentally-friendly
one will take time, Mohs said.
Ford and General Motors both decided they couldn't afford to
wait, Mohs said. Both were in the NEV market, but have since
left.
"It's a shift of understanding to more of a cleaner-burning fuel
source," he said. "Electricity is one of the most efficient forms
of energy on the planet. Harnessing that is beneficial for
society in general."
Competition for Global Electric now comes primarily from
mom-and-pops, entrepreneurs who are trying to build electric
vehicles. The company doesn't count golf cart manufacturers as
competition because they aren't street legal, Mohs said.
-
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EVLN(SF NUMMI hybrids)-long
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http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6860361/
NUMMI bids to add Toyota's hybrid line
By Eric Lai East Bay Business Times
Updated: 7:00 p.m. ET Jan. 23, 2005
State and local officials are working with executives at New
United Motor Manufacturing Inc., or NUMMI, to convince Japanese
auto giant Toyota to locate its first North American hybrid car
factory at the Fremont plant.
Bringing hybrid production to NUMMI would be a major coup for the
5.3 million-square-foot union shop, a joint-venture between
General Motors Corp. and Toyota Motor Corp. that employs 5,300
workers.
But it would be an even bigger symbolic win for the Bay Area and
the entire state, and burnish Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's image
as being both pro-business and pro-environment.
Hybrid cars, which use a gas-electric engine with a battery to
deliver improved fuel economy, have been the darling of
environmentally minded consumers. And Californians have been the
most eager buyers, snapping up 42 percent of the 59,331 Toyota
Prius hybrids sold last year, according to market researcher J.D.
Power & Associates.
Besides NUMMI, Toyota is considering manufacturing hybrids - all
currently made in Japan - at one of five other North American
factories, most of which are in the South and Midwest, where
costs, ranging from salaries to energy to workers' compensation
insurance, are lower than in California.
"A lot of people think that California would be a great place to
build hybrids, and I'm sure it would be very welcomed," said
Anthony Pratt, a Detroit-based analyst with J.D. Power &
Associates. "But for logistical and cost reasons, I don't think
so."
Local economic development officials point out that NUMMI, with a
20-year history of cooperative management-union relations,
routinely ranks as one of the most efficient and high-quality
carmakers in the United States. And they are attempting to
alleviate some of Toyota's other concerns, such as improving the
roads around NUMMI to ensure the smooth supply of car parts by
rail or truck into the plant.
"You might look at the short-term cost differential, but if you
look at the work force, the collaboration with environmental
agencies and the customer base in California, we think it's a
wise investment," said Bruce Kern, executive director of
Oakland-based Economic Development Alliance for Business (EDAB).
State and Nummi officials declined to comment about specifics in
the proposal, which is being largely headed up by the state's
Business, Transportation & Housing Agency led by Sunne Wright
McPeak.
But Schwarzenegger, during a trip to Japan in November, told
Toyota officials that he would "move mountains for them" if they
built hybrids at NUMMI.
"I would help them every way possible," Schwarzenegger said,
according to the Associated Press. "There are many things we can
do for those companies. We just have to act quick."
Massive subsidies are probably politically and economically
infeasible, considering the state of the state's budget. But part
of the state's proposal details a major overhaul of the roads
around NUMMI, located between interstates 880 and 680 on Fremont
Boulevard. According to one source,
$130 million already has been pledged from city, county and state
funds for gridlock-clearing improvements.
The state's bid is due to be sent to Toyota's North American
headquarters in Erlanger, Ky., sometime in February, said the
source. Toyota, which has 12 North American factories, will
announce its decision by the middle of the year.
"We want job security, and we believe the hybrid would give that
to us," said George Nano, president of United Auto Workers Local
2244. The union represents 4,400 workers at NUMMI, the vast
majority of whom earn $26.36 per hour, which Nano says is
comparable to wages in Detroit. Annual wages at NUMMI total about
$400 million.
The 382,678 cars and trucks made at NUMMI last year included the
Corolla compact sedan, the Tacoma pickup truck and the Pontiac
Vibe sport utility vehicle. NUMMI was Toyota's third-largest
factory in North America, behind its flagship facility in the
Lexington, Ky., suburb of Georgetown.
Toyota was the No. 4 automaker in the United States last year,
selling 2.1 million vehicles, of which 63 percent were made in
this country. With 11 percent of the market, Toyota is expected
to overtake the floundering DaimlerChrysler by decade's end.
Toyota is the hybrid leader, having outsold its next rival,
Honda, worldwide by more than 3-1 since it introduced the Prius
in the late 1990s. Many dealers have waiting lists up to six
months for the Prius, which gets about 45 miles per gallon on the
freeway.
Demand has been strong, even though customers pay a premium of
several thousand dollars in exchange for fuel cost savings that
take many years to realize.
"The math doesn't make sense for most people," said J.D. Powers'
Pratt. "What's motivating customers is the ability to drive an
environmentally friendly car."
Those types of customers abound in California. J.D. Power expects
sales of hybrids in the United States to increase to 500,000 a
year by 2009, reaching about 3 percent of the overall auto
market. Sales will then plateau, Pratt predicts, because of
reinvigorated competition from new, cleaner-burning diesel cars
and still-experimental hydrogen fuel cell cars that emit only
water vapor.
NUMMI has one advantage over other assembly sites - the lucrative
California market. Toyota has a history of building new factories
near potential customers, which reduces shipping costs and
enhances Toyota's customer credibility, said Dan Sieger, a Toyota
spokesman in Erlanger.
But Toyota is launching two hybrid SUVs in America this year: the
Lexus RX 400h SUV in April and the Toyota Highlander SUV in June.
Choosing to build an SUV in North America could boost the
prospects of its plant in Ontario, Canada, where a regular Lexus
SUV is already built.
Or if Toyota chooses to build a hybrid version of its
best-selling Camry sedan, that might tip the scales in favor of
Toyota's Kentucky plant, which makes Camrys.
Toyota also will separately decide whether to make its hybrid
engine at one of its four engine factories in North America or
keep importing them from Japan, Sieger said.
NUMMI was named the most efficient car maker in the United States
in 2003 by Troy, Michigan-based Harbour Consulting. It not only
has excess production capacity - it is running at about 78
percent of its maximum output of 490,000 vehicles per year - but
it also has room to expand. Only about 210 acres of the site's
380 acres have buildings.
NUMMI is "a great plant," said Harbour consultant Laurie Felax.
"I'd say their chances of winning the hybrid are as good as the
other factories."
She said Toyota's other plants, however, have newer equipment
that allows them to quickly and cheaply retool their production
lines to build new car models.
Building hybrids at NUMMI could allow Toyota to reap profits from
transferring its technology to General Motors. GM, whose hybrid
offerings are limited to a truck that is slightly more fuel
efficient than its other models, has set an ambitious target of
selling 1 million hybrids in 2007.
Working in NUMMI's disfavor is the plant's age - it is Toyota's
oldest full manufacturing facility - and assembly costs per
vehicle that are higher than at other Toyota plants.
For instance, NUMMI spokeswoman Rhonda Rigenhagen said its energy
costs are twice as high as in the Southeast.
California officials are working hard. An EDAB delegation that
included Alameda County supervisors Scott Hagerty and Keith
Carson and ex-Fremont Mayor Gus Morrison accompanied
Schwarzenegger to Japan. East Bay officials visited Toyota's
Kentucky factory to check out the competition.
While remaining officially noncommittal, Toyota's Sieger said
NUMMI remains in the running, and that cost alone would not be
the determining factor.
"NUMMI has been one of the most interesting experiments in U.S.
automotive history, and one of the great successes," said Sieger.
"It's obvious that there are some challenges to doing business in
California, but that has never held us back before."
© 2005 East Bay Business Times [...] © 2004 MSNBC.com [...]
© 2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
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lots of good points chris
can you explain to me why in my case i have a pretty good grasp of mororcycle
design and yet every sixth or seventh bike i build handles like a shopping
basket despite having decent angles, etc
after years of building bikes i have come to the conclusion that the
interrelations between weight , cd, wheelbase,angles,flex, road surface are so
complex as to be difficult for one man in his shed to compute - if only i had
an expert test rider and decent data logging it would be right every time
my point here is sometimes you just have to build your ideas and accept that
some of them will be crap... however some times you build things that should
ride like a wheel barrow and shock horror they drive ok...
so build your dream Lawrence and send us some pics from hospital the first time
you use the front brake on your supertanker wheelbase FF ev in the wet..
Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I was not considering COG but to keep the weight low. My
> experience with
> sail boats and toys that stand up by themselves is you almost
> never have to
> pick up a clown punching bag. The sand in the bottom always
> rights it.
> Sail boats have their center of gravity under the water line.
> IF you could
> put the batteries under the road you would hardly have to
> balance the thing.
> Lawrence Rhodes........
Hi Lawrence,
Ummm, hopefully I can get my message across by way of analogy. I am an
electrical dunce. I am not so clueless as to ask, "Why do I need two wires
from my batteries to my motor, if the electricity only has to go *to* the
motor? Why would it have to go back?" I do know Ohm's law and what a diode
does. After reading this list, I even know the difference between a
contactor and a relay. But believe me, I am *not* the one you'd want to
design a controller. I still haven't figured out how to add a small handful
of components to a Vicor Batmod to make my DC/DC converter, even after
reading all the Vicor application notes. I'll have to toss my pathetic
attempt and use someone else's schematic, not having a clue why it works and
mine doesn't.
Your statement above puts you well shy of the Ohm's law level in two-wheel
vehicle design. With that level of understanding applied to a design
entirely your own, you will probably be able to make something that will
move on its own without immediately throwing you off - with a fair amount of
luck, or after several attempts, or both. The extent to which you follow
the advice of experts, and the degree to which that advice applies
specifically to *your* vehicle, will dictate how much better than "not
throwing you off" your vehicle becomes.
I know that sounds harsh, but I really don't mean to discourage you. I
commend you for having the guts to consider a project like this. It will be
a big undertaking, and I want it to turn out well. The fact is you clearly
don't know what you don't know. The good news is that you can learn. Get
Tony Foale's books (both, if you can find the first) and/or others on the
fundamentals of motorcycle design. Read what you can on FFs. Don't even
think about your EV until you feel comfortable with everything you've
learned. It's my honest opinion that this will cause you a relatively small
delay in the project that will pay for itself many times over.
I'm thinking you'll get monotrack vehicle dynamics much quicker than it
would take me to get controller design. ;^)
Chris
Regards
Richard
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http://www.metricmind.com/counter.htm
Will work with 15...500 VDC packs.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
Ryan Stotts wrote:
I'm still planning / researching. Anyone have anys links to
Ammeter / State of Charge / Amp-Hour meters/gauges for a 300
volt setup? I want to be able to know if the pack is
charged up or not, and to what amount. Also when driving,
how many amps the motor/controller is pulling from the pack
and at what rate.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&item=4521951463&category=6472&sspagename=WDVW
In pieces but has all the parts
Seth
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I *heard* 500 forces were built. I bet fewer than 10% were NiMH or
NiCad, but I don't know. Some were dual motor BLDC, some dual motor AC
induction, most were single motor AC induction with Deka gel cells. Low
current limits.
They were a modest car, but designed to a price and to last thru the
battery warranty period. Because of that, and the hard work of a lot of
believers, the company is still around.
Seth
On Jan 25, 2005, at 9:15 AM, Steve Clunn wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sorry, it was a joke that only I got.
I got it :-) but then I ,from reading the list I new you worked at
Solectria ( i think ) . Let me say I am in ah of any of these EV
companys ,
They did it , ! what we talk about , dream about , They did . Not just
a few
cars , but many . Is there a web page anywhere telling about all these
old
Ev companys ? How many car did Solectria make ? Who can fix them now.
Where
are they ,
. My point was that people say it can't be done,
have no idea why, but repeat it, even when there are examples to the
contrary.
Sounds alot like EV's
SteveClunn
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Why did Rudman warn me very sternly concerning these batteries? Of course I
have a rep. that I have to live down being a reg. abuser. I think he
thought I'd kill myself. So you can Parallel them. Gees.........Lawrence
Rhodes.............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: nicad question
Seth;
I believe that it is OK to do flooded cells in parallel but not
cylindrical
cells.
Did I get that point across or did I misscommuncate again?
I hate typing when I'm tired. I make too many mistakes.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: nicad question
You better tell Solectria not to parallel them because those early
(wet) NiCad Forces that are still running after 10 years that way. So
someone hurry and tell them that they did it wrong ;-)
2 40Ah strings in parallel. Still running at UMass last I heard, that
was 2003 but they were 1993(ish) cars.
Seth
On Jan 23, 2005, at 11:50 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
> If there is a reason to not charge "flooded" NiCads in parallel,
> please let
> me know.
>
> The reason that cylindrical NiCads can't be recharged in parallel does
> not
> apply to flooded cells because the behave differently at end of charge.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re: nicad question
>
>
>> << Does anyone know if there are any problems with buddy pairing
>> flooded
> nicads
>> like the bb600? >>
>>
>> You don't want to charge nicads in parallel, but supposedly you can
> discharge
>> them that way.
>>
>
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I understand your concern but I'm not doing this alone. The punching bag
analogy was to show that low center of gravity good. High bad. The bike
will be simple using some left over parts. Two Lectra wheels. An A89 ADC.
I think a controller from an Electravan. Should be very fast. With long
range. Comfortable seating. I will need some front disc brakes, handle
bar, rear swing arm. Basic stuff. Deafscooter is going to help. It will
have some aspects of a Manga Street racer. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:47 AM
Subject: RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I was not considering COG but to keep the weight low. My
experience with
sail boats and toys that stand up by themselves is you almost
never have to
pick up a clown punching bag. The sand in the bottom always
rights it.
Sail boats have their center of gravity under the water line.
IF you could
put the batteries under the road you would hardly have to
balance the thing.
Lawrence Rhodes........
Hi Lawrence,
Ummm, hopefully I can get my message across by way of analogy. I am an
electrical dunce. I am not so clueless as to ask, "Why do I need two
wires
from my batteries to my motor, if the electricity only has to go *to* the
motor? Why would it have to go back?" I do know Ohm's law and what a
diode
does. After reading this list, I even know the difference between a
contactor and a relay. But believe me, I am *not* the one you'd want to
design a controller. I still haven't figured out how to add a small
handful
of components to a Vicor Batmod to make my DC/DC converter, even after
reading all the Vicor application notes. I'll have to toss my pathetic
attempt and use someone else's schematic, not having a clue why it works
and
mine doesn't.
Your statement above puts you well shy of the Ohm's law level in two-wheel
vehicle design. With that level of understanding applied to a design
entirely your own, you will probably be able to make something that will
move on its own without immediately throwing you off - with a fair amount
of
luck, or after several attempts, or both. The extent to which you follow
the advice of experts, and the degree to which that advice applies
specifically to *your* vehicle, will dictate how much better than "not
throwing you off" your vehicle becomes.
I know that sounds harsh, but I really don't mean to discourage you. I
commend you for having the guts to consider a project like this. It will
be
a big undertaking, and I want it to turn out well. The fact is you
clearly
don't know what you don't know. The good news is that you can learn. Get
Tony Foale's books (both, if you can find the first) and/or others on the
fundamentals of motorcycle design. Read what you can on FFs. Don't even
think about your EV until you feel comfortable with everything you've
learned. It's my honest opinion that this will cause you a relatively
small
delay in the project that will pay for itself many times over.
I'm thinking you'll get monotrack vehicle dynamics much quicker than it
would take me to get controller design. ;^)
Chris
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Seattle went through this rescently, the counsol was very responsive to
the calm respectfull comments brought by 30 or so people who showed up.
Roderick gave me this link some time ago with regulations from various
places: http://www.mrsc.org/subjects/pubsafe/scooters.aspx
I am satisfied for the most part with the Seattle regulations,
which did distinguish between gas and electric foot scooters.
- EPAMDs and Electric are allowed on (<35mph) streets and sidewalks,
but not on bicycle lanes, public paths, or parks (unless by disabled).
.oO( This is the only part I would like to change in the future )
- Requires Brakes, Lights at night, helmets, no passangers, etc..
- Gas scooters require licensed opperators above 16 years old !
- Gas scooters required to have proper working mufflers
So, kids can ride electric on their neighborhood streets and sidewalks.
Only older (more responsible?) kids can ride gas scooters, but they
can not ride them on sidewalks ( because they are to fast ).
Anyway, I think the most important part is to distinguish between the
two, and further require mufflers (cat converters, or 4-stroke!!).
It's also handy to let electrics use sidewalks but not gas scooters!
L8r
Ryan
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Reminds me of that pocket bike ban in NYC:
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1862&dept_id=152512&newsid=13478733&PAG=461&rfi=9
(If the above link gets broke:)
http://tinyurl.com/52cf3
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http://www.voidstar.com/bff/jap.html
http://www.bikeweb.com/
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So, it sounds like my plan might work then. I already have a Curtis 1221B
controller, Advanced DC
9 inch motor and 80 BB600s. By next weekend I should have another 120 BB600s.
The idea is to have
2 strings of batteries (120 volts per string), at least 30 AH per string, maybe
34. Conservatively
I should have 120v * 60AH for 7200kW in the pack. Does this sound right?
The donor will have a CD of .32 and final weight around 2500 lbs (pack weight
of 660 lbs.) If I
end up getting 300W per mile, range will be around 24 miles. If the batteries
put out 34 AH and I
get my efficiency down to 250W per mile, range could be closer to 33 miles.
Finally, if I remember
correctly the BB600s can handle 80% DOD on a regular basis, so realistically
I'm looking at 26
miles, rats! Maybe I can find an outlet at work, or a third string?
Dave Cover
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: nicad question
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:13:28 -0800
>
> Why did Rudman warn me very sternly concerning these batteries? Of course I
> have a rep. that I have to live down being a reg. abuser. I think he
> thought I'd kill myself. So you can Parallel them. Gees.........Lawrence
> Rhodes.............
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: nicad question
>
>
> > Seth;
> >
> > I believe that it is OK to do flooded cells in parallel but not
> > cylindrical
> > cells.
> >
> > Did I get that point across or did I misscommuncate again?
> >
> > I hate typing when I'm tired. I make too many mistakes.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: nicad question
> >
> >
> >> You better tell Solectria not to parallel them because those early
> >> (wet) NiCad Forces that are still running after 10 years that way. So
> >> someone hurry and tell them that they did it wrong ;-)
> >>
> >> 2 40Ah strings in parallel. Still running at UMass last I heard, that
> >> was 2003 but they were 1993(ish) cars.
> >>
> >> Seth
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 23, 2005, at 11:50 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >>
> >> > If there is a reason to not charge "flooded" NiCads in parallel,
> >> > please let
> >> > me know.
> >> >
> >> > The reason that cylindrical NiCads can't be recharged in parallel does
> >> > not
> >> > apply to flooded cells because the behave differently at end of charge.
> >> >
> >> > Joe Smalley
> >> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> >> > Fiesta 48 volts
> >> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >> > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:25 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: nicad question
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> << Does anyone know if there are any problems with buddy pairing
> >> >> flooded
> >> > nicads
> >> >> like the bb600? >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You don't want to charge nicads in parallel, but supposedly you can
> >> > discharge
> >> >> them that way.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've been using a hall effect sensor without any problems for the past 6
years. See details at: http://home.pacbell.net/evranger/motorto.htm
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of brian baumel
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 5:55 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Flywheel clocking
does anyone have opinions on using either an optical
or magnetic sensor for clocking a flywheel? I have an
optical setup almost complete but am having second
thoughts. the bell housing is pretty much sealed. am I
over looking something that may cause a problem in the
future? does anyone have a suggestion of the best
adhesive to attach the mirror or magnet to the fly
wheel? I'm currently think of using JBweld.....
Thanks,
BCB
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> See the pattern? It doesn't make any difference how you wire the
>> batteries...
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> That means the losses in the battery and wiring will be the same
> in electrical terms. But the battery and wiring is not whole
> picture yet. Efficiency of the controller at different voltages
> differs too, so overall EV efficiency *usually* is better for
> high voltage low current setups even though batery/wiring losses
> as you pointed out are the same. This is due to a losses in
> semiconductors which are not linear and not as simple as I^2*R
> thing.
Though I was writing about the batteries, the same principle is true for
the controller and motor as well. If they are designed for the voltage,
then their efficiency is essentially independent of the voltage.
You can wind motors for any voltage you like, and the performance and
efficiency is unchanged. Let's say you halve the voltage. Then then
current must double to get the same power. This means the wire cross
sectional area doubles. But you also need half as many turns. A 10-turn
coil with 0.1 sq.inch wire becomes a 5 turn coil of 0.2 sq.inch wire.
10x0.1 = 5x0.2, so both coils take exactly the same winding space.
And just as with the batteries, the resistive losses in the coils are
identical. The low-voltage motor winding carries 2x the current -- but
the wire is 2x the size, and half as long (1/2 the number of turns) --
so the I^R losses are the same.
The same thing happens in controllers. Most use MOSFET transistors,
which are resistive devices. The designer picks the MOSFETs to suit the
voltage and current. And guess what -- a MOSFET with half the voltage
and twice the current rating has 1/4th the "on" resistance. Again, the
losses are unchanged.
Now, if the controller voltage goes high enough (more than about 300v),
then they use IGBTs instead of MOSFETs. IGBTs are cheaper at higher
voltages. But IGBTs have a relatively fixed on-state voltage drop of 2-3
volts. So as a rule, a high-voltage IGBT controller will have *higher*
losses than a MOSFETs controller. But as a practical matter, the
difference is only about 1%.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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