EV Digest 4078
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Sick EV Humor Revisited
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout).
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Road Speed
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout). -sepex questions
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout). -sepex questions
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: ~OT: Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: ~OT: Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Rabbit, Elec-trak, batteries for sale in Sharon, MA
by Ken Olum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Road Speed
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: ~OT: Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Sick EV Humor Revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DC/DC Converter manual?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: DC/DC Converter manual?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: ~OT: Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey motors stuffed down the cylinders with bevel gears, retaining the
original heavy engine block........ I LOVE IT
!!!
Hide a small batt pack and controller underneath put on an old cylinder
head and carb, then do a candid camera type episode the gags would be
endless !!!
Such as : Look what has been invented, it runs on water or what ever and
the engine does not need a radiator He He.
Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course, I have a nice 600A sep-ex controller that is going to waste.
I think it goes down to 36V.
Seth
On Feb 6, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Keith Richtman wrote:
Curtis specifies an undervolt cutback at 64V in their datasheet.
<http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?
fuseaction=cProducts.DownloadPDF&file=1231C%2Epdf>
Keith
Rod Hower said:
I have a question concerning the following
Curtis 1231-8601, 96-144V, 500A
Is there an undervoltage lockout, and if so
at what voltage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a common question we all get asked. "How fast can it go?" If someone
asks you that, and your EV can go up to 70, 80 or 90 mph and people just say
"Oh", we can say, "If you want to see some EVs that can go over 100 mph
check out the 100 mph Club on the NEDRA site".
Along these lines how about the 10,000 mile club , for people who have
driven over 10k on the same set of batteries. Somebody who wants to set up a
web site on this ? It could be a little more lax on proof , any way out
claims would need verification , each entry could tell a little about the
setup ,or a 100 mile club , for those who have driven over 100 miles on a
charge.
Steve Clunn , with 11,000 miles on my golf cart battered Mazda pu ,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Chip this sounds good!
Once in stay in Nedra's 100 club,stay in, let the list grow!!
Madman's 100 club is should be a tight group of us street racers... and I
want the slope short and slippery, and up hill.
It's hard, and not easy or cheap... and that's why it's important to me.
I am the first to say either of my EV might not have what it takes. This
is going to be tough to do. Some have said impossible. Ok now that's a
challenge worthy of my efforts.
As for the Maniac Mazda.. If Rod wishes, I will be up there to help get it
back on the road and at track side Kicking Bitching and driving it as fast
as we go. Look, I want more folks in the Nedra 100, I just get tired of
ROD,.... yes I am picking on you! Saying he has a 100 mph EV, when I drive
by the rusting molding Maniac every time I go up there, and think Wow, with
some work , we could be hunting 11s or high 10s with that thing.
In the same light... this is why my Fiero is coming back.... Having a
Dead EV has been, is not the image I wish to live with.
Rod should beable to kick my Butt with anything he has. I will gladly help
him do it.
Vaporizing motors just to get ahead of me is.... not very sportsman like
Rod!!! DO it again!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
The 100 mph Club is obviously working. It's instilling competition and
discussion which is what we need.
>From my perspective and that of NEDRA's the more watt rod EVs we have out
there the better.
I don't quite agree with Rich that we should wipe the slate clean every
year. To me, as kind of a PR person promoting electric drag racing, having
those 100 mph club entries up on our web site is an important tool in
promoting the fact that EVs are not glorified golf carts.
We get people from all over the world who check out the NEDRA web site so
this is very important.
Its cool to have maybe a running competition amongst ourselves to wipe the
slate clean but I truly believe we need to do whatever we can to say to the
world we have EVs that have gone over 100 mph whether it was 10 years ago, 1
year ago or last month and have it documented as it is today.
It's a common question we all get asked. "How fast can it go?" If someone
asks you that, and your EV can go up to 70, 80 or 90 mph and people just say
"Oh", we can say, "If you want to see some EVs that can go over 100 mph
check out the 100 mph Club on the NEDRA site".
I'd really like to see Rich and Goldie as a member of the 100 mph Club and
I'd like to see him in it this year! And once he's in, he's in for as long
as NEDRA exists.
And I agree with Dave that the Maniac Mazda needs to come out of retirement.
See ya,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are some pictures of Bob's pickup here...
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/photos.asp?album=woodburn%202004
-Dave
On Feb 6, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Marc Michon wrote:
is there a website or on EV list for Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
is a VW pick up lighter than a nissan or toyota pick up?
Marco Michon Fresno,CA
where the Sierra Nevada Mountians are Hidden(smog)
www.austinev.org/evalbum/487.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
Some of the folks who have converted pickups still have carrying capacity.
I believe the easiest minivan to convert would be a Chevy Astro. It uses
the S-10 frame and a lot of the S-10 parts should fit, including a manual
tranny. Just beef up the suspension to handle whatever you want.
My TEVan weighs 5000+ pounds so the Caravan can be modified to handle the
weight, but probably not as easily as the Chevy.
Also, the Ford Aerostar sits on a Ranger chassis, so may be another good
candidate.
Dave Davidson
1993 Dodge TEVan
I have to disagree on two points in your message.
Converted pickups do have poor load carrying capacity. My Ranger pickup
is an example. With 20 T-105 batteries its unloaded weight was almost 200
lbs over the manufacturers specified gross weight. With its beefed up
springs,
tires and rear axle, I considered it adequate for hauling two people and a
few
small things. I never did try to haul more than about 200 lbs payload.
The Ford Aerostar does not sit on a Ranger chassis and it's not a good
candidate
for an EV conversion. It has a chassis unique to the Aerostar.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyway, I suggest Chris get in touch with Randy and Canadian Electric
Vehicles if he is serious about convertine the Caravan. Randy converted
one a few years ago for a local florist, and the vehicle was/is used as
a delivery van, so it has some capacity left to haul stuff (though
admittedly flowers are not the heaviest cargo around ;^).
Well, after looking at the replies from the list and thinking about it,
I'm thinking the Caravan might not be a good conversion. For the cost
and the time I could probably pick up a TEVan which was built for the
extra weight and motor to boot.
Back to thinking about making the Prizm do 100 in the 1/4 mile.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>My only question is at what RPM do 25" tires turn at 60 mph?
>>Or pick any other tire height or mph if it makes the math
>>any easier or more relevant. Anyone know how to figure
>>that? I searched online and all I could find were
>>"calculators" and tables that needed or included gear
>>ratios. Not just a formula to figure tire rpm at a given
>>speed like I was looking for.
>
>
>Try: http://www.csgnetwork.com/tireinfo4calc.html
Here are a couple other ones to explore:
http://www.4qd.co.uk/faq/roadspd.html
http://www.4qd.co.uk/faq/current.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That sounds interesting. I still have GE's #1 NEV
prototype sepex motor from 1994. The only problem
is that it won't fit on the 1995 Club Car without
cutting the frame (maybe I should go back and check
that again).
What's the upper voltage?
Thanks,
Rod
--- Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Of course, I have a nice 600A sep-ex controller that
> is going to waste.
> I think it goes down to 36V.
>
> Seth
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Keith Richtman wrote:
>
> > Curtis specifies an undervolt cutback at 64V in
> their datasheet.
> > <http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?
> > fuseaction=cProducts.DownloadPDF&file=1231C%2Epdf>
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > Rod Hower said:
> >> I have a question concerning the following
> >> Curtis 1231-8601, 96-144V, 500A
> >> Is there an undervoltage lockout, and if so
> >> at what voltage.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
72 or 84, I think. It is a 1244 model without CANbus. It is at work, so
I cna't tell you now.
Seth
On Feb 6, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
That sounds interesting. I still have GE's #1 NEV
prototype sepex motor from 1994. The only problem
is that it won't fit on the 1995 Club Car without
cutting the frame (maybe I should go back and check
that again).
What's the upper voltage?
Thanks,
Rod
--- Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Of course, I have a nice 600A sep-ex controller that
is going to waste.
I think it goes down to 36V.
Seth
On Feb 6, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Keith Richtman wrote:
Curtis specifies an undervolt cutback at 64V in
their datasheet.
<http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?
fuseaction=cProducts.DownloadPDF&file=1231C%2Epdf>
Keith
Rod Hower said:
I have a question concerning the following
Curtis 1231-8601, 96-144V, 500A
Is there an undervoltage lockout, and if so
at what voltage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When you stick a closely coupled 53 foot trailer behind it, it looks
lots better. Especially when you realize some air flows thru the front
corners of even a cabover.
~1200 Wh/mile for a transit (flat front) bus at more or less highway
speed. And 16 tons. Scale that to a 2 ton EV and it looks ok.
Seth
On Feb 6, 2005, at 2:00 AM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Is it this?
http://www.getdetails.com/commentary/3for/Cabover.jpg
http://www.seattletruck.com/19904070.JPG
Every time I see one of those going down the highway, it
reminds me of the times I've had to carry 4x8 sheets of
plywood in the wind or on a gusty day. Or when a skydiver
lands on the ground on a windy day and the wind is almost
dragging him across the ground. Or if you've ever been in a
sailboat and seen first hand the power of the wind and how
it reacts to that sail. Or seen one of those "stunt kites"
being flown on a really windy day and the person flying it
trying not to get dragged across the ground.
Also, do the semi truck manufactures not care about
aerodynamics? Look at the huge flat surface this bumper
creates for example:
http://vw.cz/bigtrucks/images/peterbilt%20truck.jpg
http://troitsk.org/sites/elio/peterbilt.jpg
(Sorry about posting off topic, but I currently have no one
else to talk to about these things. Hopefully my last off
topic post. I just had to let this one be said as it's
really been on my mind a lot lately.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You also have to look at the big picture. When
vehicles start to get this big and heavy just
overcoming rolling resistance becomes a more work than
aero, not to mention the power required to overcome
slight grades. Good aero helps, but not as much as you
might think at this scale.
Reverend "I understand big" Gadget
--- Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When you stick a closely coupled 53 foot trailer
> behind it, it looks
> lots better. Especially when you realize some air
> flows thru the front
> corners of even a cabover.
>
> ~1200 Wh/mile for a transit (flat front) bus at more
> or less highway
> speed. And 16 tons. Scale that to a 2 ton EV and it
> looks ok.
>
> Seth
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2005, at 2:00 AM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> > Is it this?
> >
> >
>
http://www.getdetails.com/commentary/3for/Cabover.jpg
> >
> > http://www.seattletruck.com/19904070.JPG
> >
> >
> > Every time I see one of those going down the
> highway, it
> > reminds me of the times I've had to carry 4x8
> sheets of
> > plywood in the wind or on a gusty day. Or when a
> skydiver
> > lands on the ground on a windy day and the wind is
> almost
> > dragging him across the ground. Or if you've ever
> been in a
> > sailboat and seen first hand the power of the wind
> and how
> > it reacts to that sail. Or seen one of those
> "stunt kites"
> > being flown on a really windy day and the person
> flying it
> > trying not to get dragged across the ground.
> >
> > Also, do the semi truck manufactures not care
> about
> > aerodynamics? Look at the huge flat surface this
> bumper
> > creates for example:
> >
> >
> http://vw.cz/bigtrucks/images/peterbilt%20truck.jpg
> >
> > http://troitsk.org/sites/elio/peterbilt.jpg
> >
> >
> > (Sorry about posting off topic, but I currently
> have no one
> > else to talk to about these things. Hopefully my
> last off
> > topic post. I just had to let this one be said as
> it's
> > really been on my mind a lot lately.)
> >
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought a Force and now my 1981 Rabbit conversion is for sale. I'm
replacing the batteries in the Force, so the old ones will soon be
available. I also have an Elec-trak E15 electric tractor and
associated equipment.
See http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/~kdo/ev/forsale.html for details on
all these.
Everything is in Sharon, MA.
Ken
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for doing the math for us Peter. So Ryan, thats the answer. Direct
drive would not be the ticket. But now consider, take a regular single shaft
9". Calculate the ratio necessary to keep the motor in/near its effeciency
curve at say 45-70 MPH. Then look around for an "off the shelf" pair of
straight cut gears or preferrably a morse chain and gears that are suitable
for the HP and Torque. I think you can see how simple it would be to build a
single speed oil bath "transaxle" once you found the gears. One of the
benefits of doing a gear reduction unit is that you could make the final
drive shaft mimic the width of the 3 spd automatic and have the same spline
and seal setup for the drive flanges. This would let you use the stock
axles. Probably build a mount setup to mimic the 3 point hanging motor setup
in the Caravans. If anyone cares to figure out the gear ratio needed as
above and find a good source for the gears or chain and sprockets (maybe a
4x4 transfer case could be the donor) I would be glad to layout the gear box
design. Next time I am down at Ecology I will see how much a blown up 3 spd
auto core (2.5 ltr 4 cyl) would cost. Small gear or sprocket should lend
itself to mounting on the shaft of a 9" or be adaptable to be turned into a
taper lock and keyway drive, and the large gear should have an ID of around
1". Did pretty much this same thing years ago for a mud truck, was fairly
easy to build and stout, at least never broke on my watch.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
> >>From: "David Chapman"
> >>How about a direct drive setup with a dual shaft motor
> >>mounted transversely?
> >
> > My only question is at what RPM do 25" tires turn at 60 mph?
> > Or pick any other tire height or mph if it makes the math
> > any easier or more relevant. Anyone know how to figure
> > that? I searched online and all I could find were
> > "calculators" and tables that needed or included gear
> > ratios. Not just a formula to figure tire rpm at a given
> > speed like I was looking for.
> >
> >
>
> There are 5280 feet in one mile. Basic geometry states that the
> circumference of a circle is equal to Pi (approx 3.14159) * Diameter.
> So 25" * 3.14159 = 78.54" = 6.54 feet.
> 5280 feet / 6.54 = 806.7 revolutions per mile.
>
> At 60 mph you are traveling 1 mile every minute so, that means 806.7 revs
> per minute (RPM).
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To calculate MPH used the following:
MPH = (RPM x TC)/(RA x 1056)
Where: TC = Tire Circumferance in inches
RA = Overall gear Ratio
The constant- 1056 is a factor that's
converts the inches per minute to MPH
by:
60 minutes times the wheel circumference which
gives inches per hour
divide by 12 to give feet per hour and then
divide by 5280 feet to give miles per hour.
Therefore:
60
--------- = 1056
12 x 5280
5280 (feet in a mile)
You could used the following formula using tire diameter:
MPH = (RPM x TD)/(RA x 336.3)
Where: TD = tire diameter in inches
The factor 336.3 is deride from
1056 / 3.14 (or PI)
It is more accurate to use the wheel circumference and the 1056 factor.
When purchasing a tire from a deal, they have the data in tire diameter.
When you have the tire mounted then do the calculations by tire rolling
circumference.
Example:
On a flat grade, put a mark on the tire and on the floor.
Roll the tire one turn and mark the floor again adjacent to the mark on the
tire.
Measure the distance between the two marks.
This will be your tire running circumference.
Example of calculation:
Lets find the MPH at 1000 RPM
You have a overall gear ratio in of four to one or (4:1) in the last gear in
the transmission.
Note: If you want to find the overall gears in each transmission gear, than
take that transmission gear ratio time the differential gear ratio.
Lets say the distance between the two marks are 90 inches.
Therefore:
RPM x TD 1000 x 90 90000
MPH = ----------- = ---------- = ----- = 21.3
Ratio x 1056 4.0 x 1056 4224
So it would be about 21 mph per 1000 rpm.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:44 PM
Subject: Road Speed
> >>My only question is at what RPM do 25" tires turn at 60 mph?
> >>Or pick any other tire height or mph if it makes the math
> >>any easier or more relevant. Anyone know how to figure
> >>that? I searched online and all I could find were
> >>"calculators" and tables that needed or included gear
> >>ratios. Not just a formula to figure tire rpm at a given
> >>speed like I was looking for.
> >
> >
> >Try: http://www.csgnetwork.com/tireinfo4calc.html
>
> Here are a couple other ones to explore:
>
> http://www.4qd.co.uk/faq/roadspd.html
>
> http://www.4qd.co.uk/faq/current.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
not to mention the huge great trailer the thing has to drag behind it !!
not much use having a slick tractor unit if it's pulling a big flatsided
shipping container for thousands of miles.
Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You also have to look at the big picture. When
vehicles start to get this big and heavy just
overcoming rolling resistance becomes a more work than
aero, not to mention the power required to overcome
slight grades. Good aero helps, but not as much as you
might think at this scale.
Reverend "I understand big" Gadget
--- Seth Allen wrote:
> When you stick a closely coupled 53 foot trailer
> behind it, it looks
> lots better. Especially when you realize some air
> flows thru the front
> corners of even a cabover.
>
> ~1200 Wh/mile for a transit (flat front) bus at more
> or less highway
> speed. And 16 tons. Scale that to a 2 ton EV and it
> looks ok.
>
> Seth
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2005, at 2:00 AM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> > Is it this?
> >
> >
>
http://www.getdetails.com/commentary/3for/Cabover.jpg
> >
> > http://www.seattletruck.com/19904070.JPG
> >
> >
> > Every time I see one of those going down the
> highway, it
> > reminds me of the times I've had to carry 4x8
> sheets of
> > plywood in the wind or on a gusty day. Or when a
> skydiver
> > lands on the ground on a windy day and the wind is
> almost
> > dragging him across the ground. Or if you've ever
> been in a
> > sailboat and seen first hand the power of the wind
> and how
> > it reacts to that sail. Or seen one of those
> "stunt kites"
> > being flown on a really windy day and the person
> flying it
> > trying not to get dragged across the ground.
> >
> > Also, do the semi truck manufactures not care
> about
> > aerodynamics? Look at the huge flat surface this
> bumper
> > creates for example:
> >
> >
> http://vw.cz/bigtrucks/images/peterbilt%20truck.jpg
> >
> > http://troitsk.org/sites/elio/peterbilt.jpg
> >
> >
> > (Sorry about posting off topic, but I currently
> have no one
> > else to talk to about these things. Hopefully my
> last off
> > topic post. I just had to let this one be said as
> it's
> > really been on my mind a lot lately.)
> >
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
Regards
Richard
---------------------------------
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Chapman wrote:
Thanks for doing the math for us Peter. So Ryan, thats the answer. Direct
drive would not be the ticket. But now consider, take a regular single shaft
9". Calculate the ratio necessary to keep the motor in/near its effeciency
curve at say 45-70 MPH.
<SNIP>
A 4000 to 5000 pound EV with only one gear and a single 9" Advanced DC
motor? Isn't this going to be one heck of a slug off the line? Consider this:
Max speed 70 mph
Tire diameter 25"
That works out to wheel rpm of 940 rpm at 70 mph.
Assume max safe rpm of 5000 for the 9".
5000/868 = 5.32 overall.
That is just a bit lower than 3rd gear (4.69) on my Civic. If I tried to
drive the Civic in 3rd all the time, it would become a horrible amp sucking
dog. Fine on the highway, but impossible on hills or in stop and go traffic.
This kind of conversion might work well with an AC drive motor and it
higher rpm limits, and thus a numerically higher gear (ie 2nd instead of
3rd), or with a modified high rpm DC motor, but with a stock 9"? Smells
like smoked motor to me, unless you had a very light vehicle, which a
Caravan conversion certainly wouldn't be.
If you really wanted to go this route, I would think simply using a
standard 5 speed with the proper gear selected and the shift linkage locked
into just that gear would be a much simpler project. Isn't that basically
what AC Propulsion did on their Honda conversions? I think Canadian
Electric did that on some Geos as well. I just don't think it is going to
work on a large heavy vehicle, at least not with the available
motors. Maybe the two speed manual trans in the TEVans was there for a
reason. (and they really needed another gear).
If you are curious, there is a website with more info on the Dodge FWD
trannys at:
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/trans_guide.html
I suspect with some judicious selecting and maybe playing with tire sizes
you might find something that could work in a light, flat land EV, but I am
still dubious about a Caravan with only one gear, at least one expected to
do 70 mph. If you could live with say 55 mph, then it might be more
reasonable.
Strange thought: Two 9" motors coupled like Otmar's 8" units? Now both
motors are under much less stress and combined with a Zilla you could do
the series/parallel thing and get the effect of a two speed shift as well.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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At 09:13 AM 6/02/05 -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> fatal shock at quite low voltages. I'm told that a US Navy tech having
> heard the term 'internal resistance' thought that it referred to people,
> and so he stabbed himself through the thumbs with a pair of multimeter
> leads - and achieved enough current to kill him from 9V (no-one saw him do
> it). Perhaps someone on list can confirm this? (might be a tale, Darwin
> awards may have it).
I'm 99.997% certain that this is a Myth. <snip>
I found the story on Darwin awards website - a search on their site for
"resistance" or "navy" turns it up.
"1999 Darwin Award: Resistance is Futile: A US Navy safety publication
describes injuries incurred while doing don't's. One page described the
fate of a sailor playing with a multimeter in an unauthorized manner."
Darwin doesn't say if it is proven true or false - but one contributor states:
"August 2000 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Dan Wilson elaborates:
I'm a former Navy petty officer, enlisted for six years as an electrician
aboard a US Submarine. I got a lot of training. This story was used
frequently during my training in the US Navy as an example of what can
happen when procedures and safety measures are not followed. I considered
the story an urban legend until I found the incident report referenced in
the official Navy electrical safety guidelines. I now know it is true."
Of course the old saying is as true as ever:
The trouble with trying to make things foolproof is that fools are so
ingenious.
Be safe.
James
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If you really wanted to go this route, I would think simply using a
standard 5 speed with the proper gear selected and the shift linkage
locked into just that gear would be a much simpler project. Isn't that
basically what AC Propulsion did on their Honda conversions? I think
Canadian Electric did that on some Geos as well. I just don't think it
is going to work on a large heavy vehicle, at least not with the
available motors. Maybe the two speed manual trans in the TEVans was
there for a reason. (and they really needed another gear).
That's how the Prizm is rigged; one speed, locked in second gear. It's
actually quite peppy even starting on steep hills.
I think part of the trick is that the AC motor is rated to 8,000RPM
(about 80mph) so you do have a lower gear but the real deal seems to be
that when you go to AC you can adjust the timing on the fly. Thus you
start out with a lot of torque, then at about 3,000 RPM you switch over
to a speed mapping and sacrifice torque for top-end speed.
Chris
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Is anybody interested in making a group buy on these?
I need about 200 cells..
Mike G.
Tim Humphrey wrote:
see
http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf
pay particular attention to item 20.
it's in Virginia
32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
SAFT PN 017371-000
below is a small excerpt....
Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
Requirement Statement Clear Text Reply
ITEM NAME BATTERY,STORAGE
TERMINAL QUANTITY 2
TERMINAL TYPE TAP-SCREW
OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
TEMP RATING -22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
OVERALL WIDTH 1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
CASE MATERIAL PLASTIC
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE ALKALINE
PORTABILITY METHOD ANY ACCEPTABLE
FORDING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
SUBMERSIBILITY NONSUBMERSIBLE
AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY 34.00
TIME CAPACITY IN HOURS 2.00
DISCHARGE TIME IN MINUTES 1.0
LOW TEMP AMPERE HOUR 12.00
CAPACITY
CELL QUANTITY 1
PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT ALLOY
PLATE QUANTITY PER CELL 31
NONSPILLING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
DISCHARGE RATE IN AMPS 772.00
CHARGE INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
ELECTROLYTE LEVEL INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
INTEGRAL CHARGING FACILITY NOT INCLUDED
PLATE TYPE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
CASE DESIGN TYPE FILLING PLUG OPENINGS
VOLTAGE IN VOLTS 1.2
I would appreciate it if the successful bidder would offer me a hundred or
so cells at cost :-). I was going to bid, but I can't handle that
quantity right now.
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billb wrote:
> Hey motors stuffed down the cylinders with bevel gears, retaining the
> original heavy engine block........ I LOVE IT
For many years, my electronics magazines have occasionally featured ads
where some familiar object (race car, bull's head, the world, etc.) was
made out of pieces of electronics technology. They are just works of
art; not functional devices of course.
I've daydreamed that it would be fun to build an EV "engine" (batteries,
motor, controller, etc.) that is arranged and painted to look like a
car's engine. Put it in a 'hot rod' where the engine is often exposed
anyway.
For example, DC motor at the bottom where the crankshaft would be,
connected to a bell housing as usual. Eight Optimas, 4 on each side,
tilted like the eight cylinders of a V-8. Controller on top, with a big
chromed heatsink like an air cleaner. Belt drives to an alternator,
power steering pump, etc. just like a regular car engine. Contactors
like carburetors. Everything painted, chromed, and detailed just like
they do show-car engines.
And of course, it works!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Does anybody have any idea of how many cells are
available?
Gadget
--- "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is anybody interested in making a group buy on
> these?
> I need about 200 cells..
> Mike G.
>
>
> Tim Humphrey wrote:
>
> >see
> >
> >http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf
> >
> >pay particular attention to item 20.
> >
> >it's in Virginia
> >
> >32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
> >
> >SAFT PN 017371-000
> >
> >
> >below is a small excerpt....
> >
> >Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item
> Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
> >Requirement Statement Clear Text Reply
> >ITEM NAME BATTERY,STORAGE
> >TERMINAL QUANTITY 2
> >TERMINAL TYPE TAP-SCREW
> >OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
> >TEMP RATING -22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
> >OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
> >OVERALL WIDTH 1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
> >SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
> >CASE MATERIAL PLASTIC
> >BATTERY ELECTROLYTE ALKALINE
> >PORTABILITY METHOD ANY ACCEPTABLE
> >FORDING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
> >SUBMERSIBILITY NONSUBMERSIBLE
> >AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY 34.00
> >TIME CAPACITY IN HOURS 2.00
> >DISCHARGE TIME IN MINUTES 1.0
> >LOW TEMP AMPERE HOUR 12.00
> >CAPACITY
> >CELL QUANTITY 1
> >PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT
> ALLOY
> >PLATE QUANTITY PER CELL 31
> >NONSPILLING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
> >DISCHARGE RATE IN AMPS 772.00
> >CHARGE INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
> >ELECTROLYTE LEVEL INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
> >INTEGRAL CHARGING FACILITY NOT INCLUDED
> >PLATE TYPE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
> >CASE DESIGN TYPE FILLING PLUG
> OPENINGS
> >VOLTAGE IN VOLTS 1.2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I would appreciate it if the successful bidder
> would offer me a hundred or
> >so cells at cost :-). I was going to bid, but I
> can't handle that
> >quantity right now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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--- Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Does anybody have any idea of how many cells are
> available?
>
> > >
> > >32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
> > >
> > >SAFT PN 017371-000
> > >
If these are like the BB600s I have, they run about 3 lbs per cell. That would
put the count up
around 10,000. But these are NICKEL-IRON COBALT, they may weigh more per cell.
Don't know. I'm
guessing they would fit in one bay of someones garage. For not a lot of money
you could have a
little battery business. It might take a while to sell that many.
You'd have to be able to transport hazardous materials per DOT or use an
approved carrier. And you
might have to show you have an approved place to store them. Call the guy
listed on the site, he's
very helpful. LeRoys his name. Not that it's a major pain, but there are a few
issues to deal
with. They have to dot their I's and cross their T's. After all, they are a
government agency.
Dave Cover
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You're opening up more worms than I want to deal with.
Let me just say _my_ experience:
1) I used parts of the existing (stock) wiring
harness, as I needed the speedo/odo wires, and I used
the batt. ind. light to tell the world that the EV is
"on".
2) I use a neg. ground system b/c that's the way the
accessories are wired-- the stereo, for example.
As far as hookup, a DCDC goes from +HV pack in -HV
pack in, 12V hot out, and neutral (gnd) out. It's
about the simplest system there is. The thing is,
once it's on, you tie together the batt. and DCDC, so
it can recharge the batt. (I can't explain it as well
as I can wire it). If you send an address, I can send
you a schematic. Also, my DCDC has a +12V/-12V so it
can run an E-meter. But that's another story.
Do you have "Convert It?" It shows how to wire the
DCDC.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >From: "Bob Bath"
>
>
> >Hey-- you didn't mention the manufacturer. I have
> >one for DCP. What brand is yours? Or, what are
> you
> >trying to achieve with the manual?
>
> I just wanted to see what all it consisted of as far
> as
> hooking it up went. I found a link to some info but
> the
> link was broken:
>
>
http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/Converter.html
>
> (Why is the efficiency so "bad" on those
> converters?)
>
>
> Here is what I was thinking about:
>
> Along with removing the stock gas motor, also remove
> the
> stock wiring harness. It's old and I don't want to
> reuse
> it. I also want to rewire the car to my liking.
>
> Preliminary setup: 312 or 336 volt pack of
> Orbitals, PFC
> Charger, 2k Zilla, 9" Warp. Some 12 volt DC/DC
> converter.
> I don't want to run an auxiliary battery. I don't
> want to
> use a "chassis ground" for my 12 volt wiring either.
>
> I want to get an aftermarket fuse panel and have it
> connected directly to the converter. LED lights all
> the way
> around. Also have the horn, wipers, tach, speedo,
> and a
> couple EV related gauges. That's it.
>
> I'm also wondering about fuse panel "efficiency" if
> there is
> such a thing..
>
> Take a look at this traditional fuse panel for
> example:
>
> http://www.painlesswiring.com/fuseblock.htm
>
> Notice how it uses crimp on terminals.
>
> Now take a look at this fuse panel:
>
> http://www.americanautowire.com/Products/COMP9.htm
>
> Notice how it uses "spring loaded" terminals like
> speakers
> use.
>
> Here is a video of them in use:
>
> http://www.americanautowire.com/checkitout.htm
>
> How good of a connection would those style
> connectors make?
> How much resistance do crimped on terminals add to a
> wire?
>
> The thing I like about the terminal less panel is
> just strip
> the end of the wire and plug it in. Nice, quick,
> clean, and
> simple...
>
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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>From: "Bob Bath"
>If you send an address, I can send
>you a schematic.
I'd like to have a look at that, thanks: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Also, my DCDC has a +12V/-12V so it
>can run an E-meter.
Which model is that?
>Do you have "Convert It?"
Not yet, it's on my list of books to get..
http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/registry.html/ref=wlem-si-html_viewall/102-2904835-9273769?id=1G7A1G6XLZFX7
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At 1:00 AM -0600 on 2/6/05, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Also, do the semi truck manufactures not care about
aerodynamics?
They do. Very much. These aren't consumer vehicles being sold to
twits with no clue as to real vehicle operation costs. These are
being sold to companies that track fuel and repair costs on dozens or
hundreds of those things driving hundreds of thousands of miles a
year.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
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Hello to All,
Chip Gribben wrote:
> The 100 mph Club is obviously working. It's instilling competition and
> discussion which is what we need.
Agreed.
> EV can go up to 70, 80 or 90 mph and people just say "Oh", we
> can say, "If you want to see some EVs that can go over 100 mph check out the
> 100 mph Club on the NEDRA site"
It's not that hard to make an EV hit 100, but it's real hard to make one with
enough power to do it in the 1/4 mile. Make sure you tell them that these EVs
hit 100 mph from a standing start in just 1320 feet!
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
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Good points Mike, and I think that your greater empirical experience with
the TEVan should be definately considered. I was just going by the single
gear reduction used in my G-vans. Then again the motor in that is pretty
"big". I do like your idea of the dual motor setup, could this be done with
a pair of smaller lighter motors to save weight? Anyway, I have my hands
full enough with my other van problems to think of converting the Dodge.
Batteries are the bugaboo. Tom just told me that Bill M got tired of
fighting the BB600 (750 cell pack) problems in his G-van and sold it. Hope
he didn't include the Chloride charger we loaned him in the deal, LOL. BTW,
I tried to find my G-van photos in the TP and it appears to not have
survived the "migration"? Or are you just mad at me? LOL. TTYL David
Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
> David Chapman wrote:
>
> >Thanks for doing the math for us Peter. So Ryan, thats the answer. Direct
> >drive would not be the ticket. But now consider, take a regular single
shaft
> >9". Calculate the ratio necessary to keep the motor in/near its
effeciency
> >curve at say 45-70 MPH.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> A 4000 to 5000 pound EV with only one gear and a single 9" Advanced DC
> motor? Isn't this going to be one heck of a slug off the line? Consider
this:
>
> Max speed 70 mph
> Tire diameter 25"
> That works out to wheel rpm of 940 rpm at 70 mph.
> Assume max safe rpm of 5000 for the 9".
>
> 5000/868 = 5.32 overall.
>
> That is just a bit lower than 3rd gear (4.69) on my Civic. If I tried to
> drive the Civic in 3rd all the time, it would become a horrible amp
sucking
> dog. Fine on the highway, but impossible on hills or in stop and go
traffic.
>
> This kind of conversion might work well with an AC drive motor and it
> higher rpm limits, and thus a numerically higher gear (ie 2nd instead of
> 3rd), or with a modified high rpm DC motor, but with a stock 9"? Smells
> like smoked motor to me, unless you had a very light vehicle, which a
> Caravan conversion certainly wouldn't be.
>
> If you really wanted to go this route, I would think simply using a
> standard 5 speed with the proper gear selected and the shift linkage
locked
> into just that gear would be a much simpler project. Isn't that
basically
> what AC Propulsion did on their Honda conversions? I think Canadian
> Electric did that on some Geos as well. I just don't think it is going to
> work on a large heavy vehicle, at least not with the available
> motors. Maybe the two speed manual trans in the TEVans was there for a
> reason. (and they really needed another gear).
>
> If you are curious, there is a website with more info on the Dodge FWD
> trannys at:
>
> http://www.thedodgegarage.com/trans_guide.html
>
> I suspect with some judicious selecting and maybe playing with tire sizes
> you might find something that could work in a light, flat land EV, but I
am
> still dubious about a Caravan with only one gear, at least one expected to
> do 70 mph. If you could live with say 55 mph, then it might be more
> reasonable.
>
> Strange thought: Two 9" motors coupled like Otmar's 8" units? Now both
> motors are under much less stress and combined with a Zilla you could do
> the series/parallel thing and get the effect of a two speed shift as well.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
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