EV Digest 4079
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Liquid Tin buss bar.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EPIC info
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up, Rabbits an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Ad: EV-remote
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Road Speed
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV Album, was: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Won't be needing new Batts for my S-15 for a while :-(
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: ~OT: Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Prius Super Bowl commercial
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Source for GE motor brushes?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Control question
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
James D Thompson wrote:
> >Concerning the "Maniac Mazda", we have raced it licensed and insured but
> >due to the modifications I think it would be very unfair and unsportsman
> >like to try and pass it off as a street conversion class vehicle.
>
> From what I've seen, it's not any farther from "street" than the
> Zombie is, maybe a bit closer since it has a working tranny.
Maniac Mazda more 'street' than White Zombie? As the guy who named Rod's wild
(pun
intended) 1/4 mile drag Mazda, I'm a bit familiar with it. I too, am a big fan
of this
machine and would love to see it back on the track, but as to it being closer
to street
than my car, that's a big s-t-r-e-t-c-h!
Rod's machine has doors that are mere shells of themselves, carved out and
lightened as
many body parts of pure race machine usually are. It's got thin and light
Plexiglas
windows instead of stock glass, and if I recall correctly, they no longer
function as roll
down items. The car has a totally gutted interior. It's got bulged out
fiberglass rear
fender wells and a tubbed rear section to accommodate huge wrinkle wall drag
slicks, and
it's got wheelie bars. It's a pure race car.
In contrast, every single piece of White Zombie's stock steel body work is in
tact, with
the exception of the interior trunk floor which like most all streetable
sedans, has been
modified to hold batteries. It's got stock fenders, stock doors, stock hood,
etc., and it
looks exactly like a stock Datsun 1200 sedan. In fact, sitting next to its
twin, Blue
Meanie, only the fat rear tires and the giant Ford 9 inch hanging down in back
give it
away as being a bit more 'tweaked'. There's no monster flared fenders and no
lightened
body panels. It's rear tires tuck up and into the stock rear fenders (though
they barely clear)
...no chopping of the fender wells, no protruding flares, completely original.
It's
got all its original glass...no race car spec Plexiglas. It's got carpets and
factory
door and rear side panels, factory headliner, factory dash, etc. It's got
working windows,
wipers, horn, turn signals, brake lights, etc. It has the stock steel bumpers.
With
the exception of the rear seat that was jettisoned to make room for best battery
placement, nothing has been removed. It runs DOT approved street tires, it's
always
insured, it's driven to and from the track, it's driven to car shows, and it's
even driven
to the store occasionally. It now, has a 35-40 mile range, too.
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/pics/Tinedbussbar
Liquid Tin smells like Tarn-X a silver cleaner. The photo is a bit out of
focus but you can see the difference between the copper plate and the buss
barr with heat shrink on it. Liquid Tin worked as advertised. Nice even
mirror finish. Time will tell if it prevents corrosion. The Buss Bar is
about 1 1/8" wide. 1/16 " thick.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 08:55:13 -0800 (PST), Fortunat Mueller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> speaking of dodge caravans...
> I know of one that may be surplused in the next year,
> but i also know it hasn't moved under its own power
> for about 1.5 years. Nothing wrong that i know of, it
> just didn't get used for a long time and now the
> 'smart' charger won't start up (it has a big blue,
> talking charge made by (i think) lockheed). When you
> plug it in, it flashes its lights, you can hear some
> relays click but no charge begins.
Have you checked the pack voltage? Some chargers will not start at
all with no or too low voltage on the output.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the UK, the VW pickup was known as a "Caddy" and manufacture of an
updated "Fun Pickup" model was continued by Skoda until 2001 I
believe.
Here is a picture of it, in factory trim!
http://www.allcarpictures.com/skoda/felicia-fun-picture-002.htm
As John said, being closely based on an FWD car, it would have all the
same battery placement fun and no big weight-carrying advantage.
I used to drive a Ford P100 pickup, which was based on the Sierra car.
It was rear-wheel drive, and had frame rails under the bed which
could have supported golf cart batteries - I thought it would make a
good simple EV. Unfortunately they were discontinued in the early 90s
and there are probably not many left now - ironically, turbo-diesel
engine failure was a major reason for them leaving the road.
http://www.winterstokecommercials.co.uk/smallvans/j575_ford.htm
Ford now sells the Ranger in its place, but it's a totally different
beast, much bigger, heavier and less aerodynamic for no particularly
good reason :)
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 13:31:16 -0700, Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are some pictures of Bob's pickup here...
> http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/photos.asp?album=woodburn%202004
>
> -Dave
>
> On Feb 6, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Marc Michon wrote:
>
> > is there a website or on EV list for Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
> > is a VW pick up lighter than a nissan or toyota pick up?
> > Marco Michon Fresno,CA
> > where the Sierra Nevada Mountians are Hidden(smog)
> > www.austinev.org/evalbum/487.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
> There are some pictures of Bob's pickup here...
> http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/photos.asp?album=woodburn%202004
>
> -Dave
>
> On Feb 6, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Marc Michon wrote:
>
> > is there a website or on EV list for Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
> > is a VW pick up lighter than a nissan or toyota pick up?
> > Marco Michon Fresno,CA
> > where the Sierra Nevada Mountians are Hidden(smog)
> > www.austinev.org/evalbum/487.html
> >
> > Hi Marc an' All;
Looks like the VW pickup(Rabbit) would be a good bet for a EV? EVen
sorta has J Wayland's sorta approval. But, Maybe Out West you can actualy
find a CLEAN one!? Here in the least coast, CT they all came with
Rust-O-Matic, built in as did pre 82 Rabbits. Finding one here worth
converting is a challange. You know the gig, doors that hafta be lifted up
to slam closed as the @#$% door post has rotted away, rust all around the
windshield lower corners, and the hatchback, I have taken the rear window
out any number of times to repair that rust!
Maybe you folks in Phoenix, where it never rains<g>! Or snows much, no
salted roads, or EVen Portland,Or Calif ,can find clean Rabbits in all
shapes for gliders. Hmmm? Maybe I should train out to OR and find a clean
Bunny or Pickup and DRIVE it home. Saw a 82 Jetta in a lot just off Glison
in PDX, asked the guy if it were for sale. He said that i could HAVE it, IF
he could find the paperwork. It was STILL there on my next visit, a year
later. Gone now, last PDX trip last summer. I really needed TWO cars to
drive back to CT<g>!
BTW Rabbit pickups are concidered very desirable in CT. Kid sold his,
rust included, but very drivable real quick.Kept the beat Rabbit car, after
all it is still a Diseasel, I have a running Diesel 81 Bunny, out in the
shed. Hell! Diesel Fuel is in the WELL over two bux a gal, nowadaze, on the
least coast, so you could argue the merits of saving it. Interior is pretty
shot, so I havent thought of converting.
Those early Rabbits an' Jettas made nice conversion material, weighing in
at about 1900-2000 lbs in running form, as gas or Diesel, driving, stock, as
against the 2001 Prius 2500 lbs or the Nissan Sentra 4 door 94=2700lbs,
weighted at my local friendly junkyard There must be lighter newer cars, but
not much as lite as the old VW's. Of course you are giving up air bags and
other cool safety improvments in driving a 25 year old car. So you are Damn
Careful driving your antique car, EV or WhatEVer! Brought home dramaticly a
few years ago when my kid bought a Ford Falcon, a ,62 ,in drivable
condition. I drove it home, about 50 miles with a expired plate, being a Old
Fart helps in a state where driving teenage is a ticketable offense. Wow!
Sure has been a few inprovments in Auto technology IE ride and handling,
brakes, all that! It was fun behind the Queen Mary sized steering wheel
rolling along in 62's splendor, but NOT as a daily driver!Thanks!
This weight thing sorta pales in the late thread of Dodge T vans and
other Van stuff up in the thousands of Lbs...YMMV as they say.
Seeya
Bob
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
First, sorry for the advert-ish nature of this email. As a spin-off
from another project, I have put together a cellphone based remote
control for my EV. It works with an RS-232 enabled E-Meter (link 10),
and can report when it thinks the charge is finished by sending an SMS
text message via any GSM phone network. It also has some spare
contacts which could be used to remote control accessories in the EV
such as heater or air-conditioning (I have been using it for the
heater here, on the few days when there would be ice on the screen
after work). Finally there is provision for "alarm" inputs from the
security alarm, or to sense if the mains has failed or whatever (these
send a message automatically - it is configurable)
Of course, there is a small network cost involved with sending SMS
text messages, so as a further refinement I hope to make it able to
simply "buzz" another mobile phone, and by recognising the calling
number you will know that your car is ready to go.
One other possible option is to use the parsed E-Meter data to control
an output to switch off a "dumb" charger automatically, based on
"charge conditions met" or AH returned.. But, I won't implement this
unless someone really wants it because it might be a bit dangerous to
rely on!
GSM networks are common in the UK, Europe and I believe parts of
Canada and the US. Still, this device is only useful where there is
coverage.
If anyone is interested, please email me and I will see if it's worth
to make the hardware changes necessary for this application. I hope
to make it available for a quite reasonable price, but if you want to
suggest a price range that's acceptable to you, please do.
Please reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not the list.
Best regards
Evan.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
>With the exception of the rear seat that was
>jettisoned to make room for best battery
>placement, nothing has been removed. It runs DOT
>approved street tires, it's
>always insured, it's driven to and from the track,
>it's driven to car shows, and it's
>even driven to the store occasionally. It now, has a
>35-40 mile range, too.
Whoa, 35-40 miles range? At what speed? At acceleration
enough to keep up with traffic?
Those tires are anything but low rolling resistance, and
with no transmission, you're going to be guzzling amps like
hell just to get the thing moving. Not only that, but if I
remember correctly, the car can only make one 1/4 mile pass
before it runs out of juice?
I was lurking around and found a Datsun1200 message board
where you quoted Zombie with a 288V setup as having 10 miles
range. I'm interested in knowing under what conditions, as
it will give me another datapoint on what to expect from my
will-be conversion sitting in my driveway as we speak. I
suspect the figure may be outdated from when you had the
336V of Hawkers installed, but just checking.
My GT6 has battery room a plenty. I may be able to stuff in
a 300V or maybe even a 336V pack of Optimas for some serious
60-70 mile range, and with a Zilla 1k, about high 14s in the
quarter(I wouldn't load the car with that many batteries
unless I did some serious weight reduction. I want to keep
it under 2,600 pounds including driver. Without lightweight
bonnet, doors, ect., I could fit a 264V pack of Optimas and
keep it at that weight). The poor man's TZero minus the
tacky kitcar flimsiness.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland wrote:
>To calculate MPH used the following:
>
> MPH = (RPM x TC)/(RA x 1056)
>
>
>Where: TC = Tire Circumferance in inches
> RA = Overall gear Ratio
>
> The constant- 1056 is a factor that's
> converts the inches per minute to MPH
> by:
I use tire diameter instead of circumferance and change the constant to 336
(1056/pi). So... road speed times 336, divided by tire diameter, times gear
ratio(s) (if you want axle speed that would be one) equals the motor speed.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dodge made, maybe still does, an AWD version of the grand caravan. Does
anyone know if it is sprung any higher than the FWD model? They may
have designed it higher to gain ground clearance for the rear drive. I
see a '93 and a '97 on Ebay now.
Is the TEvan based on a standard caravan, the short version, or the
grand caravan, the long version? How do the gross vehicle weights of
the two versions compare?
My wife has been after me to convert her grand caravan for the last
couple of years. I would just copy the TEvan battery setup. Can one of
the TEvan owners give us a ground clearance under the battery boxes and
a hight of the battery boxes measurement? The nicads are tall. I
suspect that Dodge changed the suspension in some way to gain ground
clearance.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My bad Mike. Sorry. A brain fart brought on by fatigue I guess, I actually
meant the EV Album, not the TP. And I guess I simply must have missed it,
because I just went there and indeed it is right above Rolands El Camino
where it should be. Where I would have sworn it wasn't last night, lol. TTYL
DC.
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 5:41 AM
Subject: Off List: Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
> Hi David,
>
> Are you sure your G-van was ever on the EV Tradin' Post? It is in the
> Album, but can find no record of it ever being listed on the EV Tradin'
> Post (I keep all emails relating to the TP and Album).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well guess I'm not in as much a rush afterall for batteries. After pulling the
18 8VGC T-875 out I took the very nice solar car corp rear battery box out and
found much of the pickup bed underneath it missing or with holes and the cross
piece supporting it mostly gone with holes in it due to acid/rust. The drain
wasn't re-installed correctly at some point. The rest of the bed looks great
top and bottom but I really have yet to take a close look at the driveshaft.
Also took the front battery box out and found the pieces that held the battery
hold down in were eaten away by battery acid which explains why the hold downs
were no longer installed.
My Original plan was run 126 volts of 6VGC batteries and find a place for the
12v that isn't in the same box as the traction pack. I think I have a lot more
work to do because of some previous mistakes/maintenance issues. At least I
have a 2 car garage now. The frame has a lot of surface rust. Is it worth it to
pull it apart to clean it up and coat it or would that be a waste of time?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon,
Nice motorcycle!
I'm sure hoping that the guys at ProEV have good luck with those big Kokam
LiPoly cells, as right now that is the only battery I see with potential
to make my EM everything I want it to be.
Testing is going well. The Kokam/EaglePicher batteries are doing everything
we ask of them.
Let see. Your bike weighs 500 Lbs. From the pics, it looks like Saft 100's.
If so, they weigh 30 lbs each, so that
should be about 240 lbs. of batteries and 260 lbs of Bike.
So replaced those with 12 of the 40 amp-hr Kokam/EaglePicher at 1.76 lbs
each for a
total of 21.12 lbs. That will save you around 220 lbs.
The Kokam/EaglePichers should give you a solid 40 amp-hrs. Plus the
motorcycle will be almost half the weight it was before. Not only should you
make it to Wayland's house, but you should make it quicker<g>.
Cost won't be totally out of control, somewhere between $2,500 and $3,000.
This is about double what you have in the project so far. Still, for less
than $5,000, you should have a pretty impressive EV.
Of course, this is all just playing with numbers until a solid BMS is
available. Victor? Rich? Lee?
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
Another day another battery reconfiguration, but then again I have never
paid for a battery on this project, so what do I expect. I loved my
motorcycle when it had the 8 Saft Nicad modules on it. I could easily get
it up to 60 mph and had a solid 30 - 40 miles range. I never liked the
way it looked however with those big bulky batteries strapped on it, and I
always had problems with my chain alignment in order to make space for the
batteries. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/497.html
When the Safts started to die off and I only had 6 good ones left I
decided to remount the motor to take care of the chain alignment and have
everything ready to drop in that dream pack of batteries some day. I
started collecting aircraft starter NiCad's and found some very nice
looking battery boxes that fit well on the bike, while tooling around town
on a very range limited set of UPS AGMs. I was excited about the thought
of having a nice clean looking bike finally, and was optimistic that with
the new NiCads I could still have enough range to make the 17 miles to
John Wayland's house. Unfourtunately as I started collecting the Nicads I
found that most of them were not delivering in the high 30 ahr range I was
hoping for. High 20's and low 30's was more the norm. Still I did have
some willing to put out 36 - 38 ahrs and with a seemingly unlimited supply
I just figured it was only a matter of time and testing before I had a
pack that might get me to John's house again. But now my supply seems to
have dried up, and my patience has run out.
I decided to get the 6 good Saft modules I have back on the bike, and use
as many of the NiCad cells as I could get on the bike to bump the voltage
up. I got it all put back together last night, with 4 groups of 3
paralleled cells giving me a little more speed than the Saft modules can
on their own. Still I am limited to just under 50 mph right now, so I
might try and fit a few more of the cells on to get my voltage up a bit
higher. I should have good range. I should be able to ride a good 25 -
30 miles on a full charge, but I will have to limit my freeway riding to
an absolute minimum at these speeds. I think I can get another 6 cells on
if I try which would put me in the low to mid 50's for top speed.
So for now, it's ugly again, and a bit speed limited, but should be very
functional. Most of my riding is on 40 - 50 mph roads. After I have some
test runs on these new batteries it will be time to try a trek to John
Wayland's house again.
I'm sure hoping that the guys at ProEV have good luck with those big Kokam
LiPoly cells, as right now that is the only battery I see with potential
to make my EM everything I want it to be. In the meantime though I am
delighted to have something that is not perfect, but still a lot of fun!
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, no, that's not it. Notice the wedge on the top of the vehicle
that has been added to deflect air away from the front of the trailer.
Imagine the same vehicle without the wedge on the roof and a flat-front
trailer attached to catch the wind.
Most of these vehicles were designed back when fuel was $.25/gallon and
fuel economy didn't matter much. Some of the newer vehicles are designed
much more aerodynamically. I read somewhere that they can save as much
as 5% in fuel costs.
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/5/05 11:00:26 PM >>>
Is it this?
http://www.getdetails.com/commentary/3for/Cabover.jpg
http://www.seattletruck.com/19904070.JPG
Every time I see one of those going down the highway, it
reminds me of the times I've had to carry 4x8 sheets of
plywood in the wind or on a gusty day. Or when a skydiver
lands on the ground on a windy day and the wind is almost
dragging him across the ground. Or if you've ever been in a
sailboat and seen first hand the power of the wind and how
it reacts to that sail. Or seen one of those "stunt kites"
being flown on a really windy day and the person flying it
trying not to get dragged across the ground.
Also, do the semi truck manufactures not care about
aerodynamics? Look at the huge flat surface this bumper
creates for example:
http://vw.cz/bigtrucks/images/peterbilt%20truck.jpg
http://troitsk.org/sites/elio/peterbilt.jpg
(Sorry about posting off topic, but I currently have no one
else to talk to about these things. Hopefully my last off
topic post. I just had to let this one be said as it's
really been on my mind a lot lately.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It does look very promising/tempting. I am not only watching you, but all
the LiIon BMS guys as well, especially Victor since we are in the same
vicinity and he is in the business of selling EV components already. Of
course the second part of the equation is whether or not to stick with the
bike at all. The only reason it ever got built was because it was a more
affordable hands on learning experience than a full EV conversion. A
motorcycle in the Pacific Northwest is not a great choice of transportation
for a good part of the year.
I'm considering doing more of a people hauler next. I'm probably most
interested in doing a full size full hybrid that can carry my whole family
of 6 anywhere I want to take them. It might be doable with a front wheel
drive van left intact and a short range EV mode built into the rear.
I know many on this list feel EV's are the answer, but I have a hard time
with vehicles that can only carry 1 - 4 passengers and be driven 10 - 50
miles. The vast majority of the EVs I see being discussed fall into this
category. I need something with more utility then that. Of course these
LiPol batteries may be the cure for this as well.
damon
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science
project...
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:13:53 -0500
Damon,
Nice motorcycle!
I'm sure hoping that the guys at ProEV have good luck with those big Kokam
LiPoly cells, as right now that is the only battery I see with potential
to make my EM everything I want it to be.
Testing is going well. The Kokam/EaglePicher batteries are doing everything
we ask of them.
Let see. Your bike weighs 500 Lbs. From the pics, it looks like Saft 100's.
If so, they weigh 30 lbs each, so that
should be about 240 lbs. of batteries and 260 lbs of Bike.
So replaced those with 12 of the 40 amp-hr Kokam/EaglePicher at 1.76 lbs
each for a
total of 21.12 lbs. That will save you around 220 lbs.
The Kokam/EaglePichers should give you a solid 40 amp-hrs. Plus the
motorcycle will be almost half the weight it was before. Not only should
you
make it to Wayland's house, but you should make it quicker<g>.
Cost won't be totally out of control, somewhere between $2,500 and $3,000.
This is about double what you have in the project so far. Still, for less
than $5,000, you should have a pretty impressive EV.
Of course, this is all just playing with numbers until a solid BMS is
available. Victor? Rich? Lee?
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
Another day another battery reconfiguration, but then again I have never
paid for a battery on this project, so what do I expect. I loved my
motorcycle when it had the 8 Saft Nicad modules on it. I could easily get
it up to 60 mph and had a solid 30 - 40 miles range. I never liked the
way it looked however with those big bulky batteries strapped on it, and I
always had problems with my chain alignment in order to make space for the
batteries. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/497.html
When the Safts started to die off and I only had 6 good ones left I
decided to remount the motor to take care of the chain alignment and have
everything ready to drop in that dream pack of batteries some day. I
started collecting aircraft starter NiCad's and found some very nice
looking battery boxes that fit well on the bike, while tooling around town
on a very range limited set of UPS AGMs. I was excited about the thought
of having a nice clean looking bike finally, and was optimistic that with
the new NiCads I could still have enough range to make the 17 miles to
John Wayland's house. Unfourtunately as I started collecting the Nicads I
found that most of them were not delivering in the high 30 ahr range I was
hoping for. High 20's and low 30's was more the norm. Still I did have
some willing to put out 36 - 38 ahrs and with a seemingly unlimited supply
I just figured it was only a matter of time and testing before I had a
pack that might get me to John's house again. But now my supply seems to
have dried up, and my patience has run out.
I decided to get the 6 good Saft modules I have back on the bike, and use
as many of the NiCad cells as I could get on the bike to bump the voltage
up. I got it all put back together last night, with 4 groups of 3
paralleled cells giving me a little more speed than the Saft modules can
on their own. Still I am limited to just under 50 mph right now, so I
might try and fit a few more of the cells on to get my voltage up a bit
higher. I should have good range. I should be able to ride a good 25 -
30 miles on a full charge, but I will have to limit my freeway riding to
an absolute minimum at these speeds. I think I can get another 6 cells on
if I try which would put me in the low to mid 50's for top speed.
So for now, it's ugly again, and a bit speed limited, but should be very
functional. Most of my riding is on 40 - 50 mph roads. After I have some
test runs on these new batteries it will be time to try a trek to John
Wayland's house again.
I'm sure hoping that the guys at ProEV have good luck with those big Kokam
LiPoly cells, as right now that is the only battery I see with potential
to make my EM everything I want it to be. In the meantime though I am
delighted to have something that is not perfect, but still a lot of fun!
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tuned into the Super Bowl for a few minutes on Sunday and was amazed to
see that Toyoto spent big bucks to air a Prius add. That was cool. I love
the Honda Insight looking second generation Prius and will probably buy one
someday. I will definitely buy one some day if those trying, come up with a
good way of making it a fully functional grid rechargable hybrid.
10 - 20 miles of EV only city driving, plus full support for the gasoline
based infrastructure we all rely on would make it the perfect car for me.
Of course the commercial was sure to point out that you never have to plug
it in :-(
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar,
I just recently had to find brushes for my Elec-trac GE sep-ex motor.
I called Repco, talked to Scott Tussey, and he dug up the right
brushes for me. He was VERY helpful and knowledgeable. He said he's
been selling brushes since '72. I highly recommend him:
http://www.repcoinc.com
Repco Inc.
6 Eves Dr,
Marlton NJ 08053
Scott Tussey
1-800-822-9190
Hope this helps
Markus
Thanks a bunch Markus,
Your lead turned out to be the best one for me.
I just ordered a set of brushes from Scott, he was very knowledgeable
about them.
If anyone needs brushes, these guys know their stuff and had the best
prices as well.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John...... nice skills with the Archive searching.
BUT the White Zombie now has 26 Orbitals at 40 lbs each.
It last ran at 240 volts with only 20 Orbitals.
Give John some credit for changing battery packs every decade or so.....
Right now it has the heaviest battery pack it ever has, and if John Keeps
the volts down.. one of the most reliable runs it's ever had.
His 30 to 40 miles range.. is Ummmm Wayland esque.... Add copy. But you
will loose money if you bet him on his range. He's good at it, if he
tries!!
The motors are left in series mode the Amps are very little and the rpms are
kept low. It does not take much battery amps to get a light EV with motors
in Series to pull away smartly from a light.
Yea When John had a 6 year old single string of abused Hawkers on board...
he would limp back to the pits. NOT so nowdays. He drives it 15 miles to the
track, and Races and charges and then drives home. I have seen the 15 mile
run personally. I was shot gun with my Goldie and My ICE pickup Ranger.
Yea 22 Yts or Orbs would give a nice range, but 60 to 70 miles.... Not
likely.... I am going to have 20 Orbs in Goldie... I am expecting 20 to 25
miles range. More than that is wishfull thing on Both you and Plasma boy's
part.
You both can try to prove me wrong.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:27 AM
Subject: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> >With the exception of the rear seat that was
> >jettisoned to make room for best battery
> >placement, nothing has been removed. It runs DOT
> >approved street tires, it's
> >always insured, it's driven to and from the track,
> >it's driven to car shows, and it's
> >even driven to the store occasionally. It now, has a
> >35-40 mile range, too.
>
> Whoa, 35-40 miles range? At what speed? At acceleration
> enough to keep up with traffic?
>
> Those tires are anything but low rolling resistance, and
> with no transmission, you're going to be guzzling amps like
> hell just to get the thing moving. Not only that, but if I
> remember correctly, the car can only make one 1/4 mile pass
> before it runs out of juice?
>
> I was lurking around and found a Datsun1200 message board
> where you quoted Zombie with a 288V setup as having 10 miles
> range. I'm interested in knowing under what conditions, as
> it will give me another datapoint on what to expect from my
> will-be conversion sitting in my driveway as we speak. I
> suspect the figure may be outdated from when you had the
> 336V of Hawkers installed, but just checking.
>
> My GT6 has battery room a plenty. I may be able to stuff in
> a 300V or maybe even a 336V pack of Optimas for some serious
> 60-70 mile range, and with a Zilla 1k, about high 14s in the
> quarter(I wouldn't load the car with that many batteries
> unless I did some serious weight reduction. I want to keep
> it under 2,600 pounds including driver. Without lightweight
> bonnet, doors, ect., I could fit a 264V pack of Optimas and
> keep it at that weight). The poor man's TZero minus the
> tacky kitcar flimsiness.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Paul, Good idea, but where are you going to get the nicads? New from Saft,
or have you found a surplus source? I could sure use 72-90 usable big
modules for an affordable price. I can find plenty of small starting cells
but the big boys have eluded me so far. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
> Dodge made, maybe still does, an AWD version of the grand caravan. Does
> anyone know if it is sprung any higher than the FWD model? They may
> have designed it higher to gain ground clearance for the rear drive. I
> see a '93 and a '97 on Ebay now.
>
> Is the TEvan based on a standard caravan, the short version, or the
> grand caravan, the long version? How do the gross vehicle weights of
> the two versions compare?
>
> My wife has been after me to convert her grand caravan for the last
> couple of years. I would just copy the TEvan battery setup. Can one of
> the TEvan owners give us a ground clearance under the battery boxes and
> a hight of the battery boxes measurement? The nicads are tall. I
> suspect that Dodge changed the suspension in some way to gain ground
> clearance.
>
> Paul Wallace
> '91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Right,
there's no reason you can't control more than 2 motor-wheels to steer,
other than the linkage complexity. I don't see why it would be a
dangerous thing to drive, the original max vehicles don't go that fast.
The only problem I see is that your motors there are PM and might not
have a lot of low end torque. But if you have 6 of them driving.. well
you should have some power there I would hazard to guess.
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
David Dymaxion wrote:
Something neat with hub motors is you could turn the wheels all the
way sideways and do a U turn in the vehicle's length.
--- richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
best bet is to drive the rear four wheels and steer
the front two
for this set up with hub motors you get the added
bonus of natural differential action ( you will still
have some tyre scrub but not as much)
...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, you're right! I forgot about automatic tranny slippage.
Victor
Paul G. wrote:
Victor wrote:
Isn't the motor RPM known if you know the roller RPM and
tranny overall gear ratio and wheel diameter
(+/- roller slippage and other errors of course)?
Almost... The last "gear" is the ratio between the tire diameter (not a
fixed number but not *that* variable) and the dyno roller diameter (provided
by the dyno shop hopefully).With an auto tranny (not many EVs use them but
many fast ICEs do) there is torque converter slip too.
I'm not suggesting that we get "no useable information", only that to get
accurate motor power and torque curves we need accurate motor rpm. For
brushed motors I think we *want* this kind on info (and all the fastest EVs
in the quarter mile use brushed motors :-)
Neon
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--- Begin Message ---
Damon,
There is a chance to retrofit your bike with AC system
if you dare - one of my customers who bought it fo rhis motorcycle
has other priorities and must sell his system - never used.
Simotion inverter and 1PV5105 18kW rated induction motor.
Purchased specifically for his motorcycle project:
http://www.vogelbilt.com/
He's willing to sell it at some discount, this is between you
and him. Also he has 50Ah TS LiIon cells if you care.
He's not on the list. Anyway, reply off-list and I'll supply contact
info, or get it off his web site. Actually, if anyone interested -
it is available.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - sonething different
damon henry wrote:
Another day another battery reconfiguration, but then again I have never
paid for a battery on this project, so what do I expect. I loved my
motorcycle when it had the 8 Saft Nicad modules on it. I could easily
get it up to 60 mph and had a solid 30 - 40 miles range. I never liked
the way it looked however with those big bulky batteries strapped on it,
and I always had problems with my chain alignment in order to make space
for the batteries. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/497.html
When the Safts started to die off and I only had 6 good ones left I
decided to remount the motor to take care of the chain alignment and
have everything ready to drop in that dream pack of batteries some day.
I started collecting aircraft starter NiCad's and found some very nice
looking battery boxes that fit well on the bike, while tooling around
town on a very range limited set of UPS AGMs. I was excited about the
thought of having a nice clean looking bike finally, and was optimistic
that with the new NiCads I could still have enough range to make the 17
miles to John Wayland's house. Unfourtunately as I started collecting
the Nicads I found that most of them were not delivering in the high 30
ahr range I was hoping for. High 20's and low 30's was more the norm.
Still I did have some willing to put out 36 - 38 ahrs and with a
seemingly unlimited supply I just figured it was only a matter of time
and testing before I had a pack that might get me to John's house
again. But now my supply seems to have dried up, and my patience has
run out.
I decided to get the 6 good Saft modules I have back on the bike, and
use as many of the NiCad cells as I could get on the bike to bump the
voltage up. I got it all put back together last night, with 4 groups of
3 paralleled cells giving me a little more speed than the Saft modules
can on their own. Still I am limited to just under 50 mph right now, so
I might try and fit a few more of the cells on to get my voltage up a
bit higher. I should have good range. I should be able to ride a good
25 - 30 miles on a full charge, but I will have to limit my freeway
riding to an absolute minimum at these speeds. I think I can get
another 6 cells on if I try which would put me in the low to mid 50's
for top speed.
So for now, it's ugly again, and a bit speed limited, but should be very
functional. Most of my riding is on 40 - 50 mph roads. After I have
some test runs on these new batteries it will be time to try a trek to
John Wayland's house again.
I'm sure hoping that the guys at ProEV have good luck with those big
Kokam LiPoly cells, as right now that is the only battery I see with
potential to make my EM everything I want it to be. In the meantime
though I am delighted to have something that is not perfect, but still a
lot of fun!
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
This might mean I could convert it to electric. Has anyone ever
converted a Caravan, thoughts on battery placement and what kind of
adapter could fit the 3 speed transmission?
Chris
Chrysler did:
http://www.autointell-news.com/news-2000/May-2000/May-23-00-p4.htm
Here are the specs:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/epic.pdf
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:34 PM 2/4/2005, you wrote:
Andre' Blanchard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> As far as the tires growing. When the car is chained to a
> dyno, do the tires grow at the same rate as they would on
> the same car at the track?
An excellent question! I would guess that they would not, but don't
know how significant the difference might be.
Isn't the tire growth due to spinning at high RPM?
If you dyno at the same RPM, shouldn't the growth be the same?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
REgarding muscles contraption - this is real and so never grab a wire
unless you know it is at no voltage. A good advice I can pass on -
if you do touch a questionable wire for whatever reason, tough it with
outside of your finger(s) nail side, not inside - so there is no chance
your palm will grab a live wire if the muscles do contrapt.
I do use rubber gloves when dealing with my batteries. Doing that
and insulating the tools, + common sense in my opinion is enough.
You can do more safety wise - depending how paranoid you are :-),
but insulating *you* and your tools I'd say is a bare minimum.
Victor
p.s. I do have set of wrenches and tools to work only on electric
stuff. They aren't used for mechanical work.
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Don,
Just don't touch any of the battery terminals while the batteries are
charging and standing in a puddle of water or grounding your self to the
metal body of the EV if it has the same reference to ground with a on board
charger.
Normally for maximum safety, used a Ground Fault Interrupter Circuit Breaker
for the charging circuit or if you are charging 20 amps or less on 120 VAC,
used a GFI 120 VAC recepticle.
Also, you can install the batteries in a total enclosed plastic or
fiberglass enclosurer that is epoxy coated using a shower or sink recoating
kit.
If you used a on board battery charger, you can also install it into another
epoxy coated glass container. Both of these containers are isolated from
any metal of the EV. Its like having a off board charging with only the two
DC charging leads to it.
Also, there should be two contactors that disconnects the battery pack from
the controller that is control by seperated voltage source, such as a 12
VDC. Normally these two additional contactors are call the safety
contactors, which is before the controller main contactor and motor
controller.
In some cases, if you do not have theses contactors which are normally off,
in the circuit while charging, you may have the charging voltage in the
controller system.
If you have this type of installation, as I have in my EV, I will at times,
test to see if there is any voltage potential to the EV chassic, by checking
this out with a volt meter from a battery terminal to the EV frame
When the battery charger is off, and battery circuits are all connected, the
maximum voltage of a battery pack should be at the two far ends of the
battery pack. For example, if you line up 30 each 12 volt batteries in a
roll, the end two will be about 30 feet apart. You cannot reach both ends
at the same time.
You also have to be careful when laying the batteries out in a square type
pattern, where you may have 5 batteries in one roll and another 5 batteries
in the next roll. In this configuration, you would have the 1st battery and
no 10 battery together in the adjacent rolls. This is about 120 volts
difference between these two batteries.
I used 6 volt batteries, so my difference is 60 volts between each roll.
You should keep the batteries super clean all the time. Even after you
clean them, you could read some voltage that is tracking across the battery
tops and may track to a adjacent battery. This is a another maintenance
test with a volt meter, to see if battery voltage is tracking.
In installing, battery connectors or links, all your tools, should be
insulated. All socket wrenches, torque wrenches, open or close end wrenches
used for battery work, should be insulated. I used a heavy duty heat
shrinks, that gets to be about 1/8 thick or more. Heat shrink the tools, so
only one end is expose.
Used a good set of mechanics gloves that have that rubberize coating on the
surface, normally for repelling grease and oil.
If you want to be more comfortable about this, you could get a set of
linemans gloves. I have a set of these, plus a rubber apron for installing
or pulling the batteries.
My batteries are a open type, of which I clean with a spray on battery
cleaner. The batteries cases are tight together, so there is residue of
this cleaner down the sides of which I cannot wash or wipe off. So when I
pull the batteries, it will make a mess of your hands if you are not rubber
gloves.
Another trick, I learn from a old battery guy back in the 70's, is that to
set the batteries on a bed of Baking Soda. You can do this if you have a
totally enclosed battery container. I have about 1 inch thick layer of
Baking Soda of which the batteries are setting on. Since doing this, the
inside of the battery box after 4 years of doing this is pure bright gloss
white. Before that, they would get a dirty yellow color.
If you used a battery rack for the batteries, than all the expose metal
should be insulated. This can be done, by taking it to a place that does
spray on bed liners. This does not have to be a rough black coating, you
can get it in any color that has a smooth texture.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 8:36 PM
Subject: High Voltage - let go!
I am curious about working with high voltage. I have heard, that at 50
volts it possibly can kill you (given the right circumstances), but at
150V
it will certainly kill you because you will be unable to let go of the
circuit - your muscles will contract and hold on.
So what is the scoop? (besides the obvious: be very careful!)
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
