EV Digest 4184
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Advice on electric scooter sought
by cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Alexandra Paul arrested at EV-1 Vigil as GM hauls EV-1s away
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: RoboMower
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Warning sound for approaching EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: sick Soleq charger
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Warning sound for approaching EV
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Flooded motor
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Tires again and Powerwheels
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Advice on electric scooter sought
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Alexandra Paul arrested at EV-1 Vigil as GM hauls EV-1s away, Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Tires again and Powerwheels
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Tires again and Powerwheels
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Warning sound for approaching EV
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Fix a Blown Link 10 EMeter
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Tires again and Powerwheels
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: ProEV wins first Autocross of 2005
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Advice on electric scooter sought
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: RoboMower
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 14, 2005, at 12:52 PM, Mark Dodrill wrote:
* Max speed required is 40 mph for about 1 mile
* Other times speed is between 25 and 35 mph
Hey Mark-
I'm not sure you will be able to get anything faster than around 30mph
with a 1500w motor, let alone 40mph. a 750w motor might get you to
25mph with a tailwind, especially if you weigh 200lbs.
I own an evt168 that I found on ebay for $1k, it only had 50 miles on
it, but the previous owner had trashed the batteries so he let it go
cheap. The evt has a 1500w motor, and I can get to 30mph, a little
faster with a downslope or tailwind. Pulling the pack out of an evt is
a bit of a pain, but not too bad if you have batteries with handles.
You can supposedly get a 2000w hub motor for the evt which would
increase your top speed, but reduce your range.
-Cristin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:33:30 -0800 "Paul Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
The call came in around 10 am. I had just sent off the second fax to Bill Maher
and was about to start the LA Times editorial pitch. Alexandra says two
transport trucks just pulled in. I told her to verify that the EVs were being
loaded and call me back. I then began making calls to the top of the list.
Within 5 minutes, Alexandra calls again to say they are indeed loading EVs.
Then the fun began. I fired off a one line email to the EV lists, made a couple
calls and jumped in the car. Zan stayed home and started calling the press.
Marc Geller was one of my first calls as I knew he could do a lot from his
perch in SF.
I arrived at the site about 30 minutes later and drove around to the Pickwick
parking lot to get a good view of the loading. It was then I realized I'd
forgotten the camera. Damn!
Luckily, Alexandra and others had theirs, so we were able to record the
happenings. Both trucks were close to full already. Crap, there comes a third
one. This is bad.
The press were starting to come. KABC was there when I arrived, and in quick
succession, CNN, KTLA, ABC, LA Times, Washington Post and NBC arrived. NBC was
very late, arriving as the arrests were being made. They are so lame, just down
the street and couldn't get there till the end. I was told NPR was there, but
didn't talk to anyone.
One unfortunate casualty is that the NY Times reporter, Chris Dixon, was on
his way, but got pulled in route by his editor who put him on the reversal of
the gay marriage ban. Good news sometimes hurts:~)
The mood was high excitement as we waited out front with the reporters,
talking to some, but mostly walking around with cell phones stuck to our
heads. I'm worried since I not only didn't bring my camera, I left my cell
charger, too. It goes from 3 bars to 2.
The truckers make us wait. There are a few GM guys talking with the truckers
in back. I check on Alexandra and Collette who are parked in the bike lane just
off the driveway, poised. Neighbors are coming out to watch from across the
street. I'm sure many of them are happy to see something finally happening.
All of a sudden, another transport, this one an open type, drives up and begins
to back into the drive. Alexandra surprised everybody as she immediately drove
up to block the truck from entering. She positioned herself smack in the middle
of the drive, on the street side of the sidewalk. She set the brake, rolled up
the windows and locked the
doors.
It was happening! The media swarmed. Not more than a minute later, the two
loaded transports from the back lot tried to pull out. There was Alexandra
stuck in-between three massive transporter trucks with her Rav EV decorated
with banners stating our case. Great photo op.
The police moved quickly as an officer walked up and tapped on her window with
his knuckle. She and Collette ignored the officer and continued looking
forward. Some talk ensues and the cameras recorded it all. Once it was clear
the two women were staying put, the police retreated to instruct the trucker
blocking the street to move out of the way. He moved to the median a short way
off and proceeded to load some ICE vehicles. Apparently, he wasn't there to
pick up the EVs afterall.
Lots of police are here. They keep coming, too. Several cars, some motorcycles,
tow truck and a paddy wagon! They seem to outnumber us.
Things are heating up. Everybody is either holding a camera, mike or protest
sign. Doug and Jennifer are leading the crowd in cheers. It's a great spectacle!
Chelsea, Jen and I were constantly on the phone, talking to press, the women in
the car, or others in route or at home wanting updates. The diesel trucks make
a hell of a racket. It is sunny and hot.
Seems like a good hour goes by with the activity level increasing the whole
time. The police are discussing action, I could tell, so I wander over close
to them to get a sense of how they are going to make the arrest.
While standing near their huddle, the one apparently in charge and dressed in
civvies turned to me and asked to speak. I enter a small group of three
officers who introduced themselves and explained what they were going to do.
They were very professional and respectful and told me that if
Alexandra and Collette were willing to get out of the car, it would all go away
right then and there. I then walked over to the car and called Alexandra. She
explained that she wasn't interested in such an ending. I related that to the
Lieutenant who then explained how it would happen. They would use a locksmith
to unlock the door, but if Alexandra kept locking it, they would have to break
the window.
I called her again. She assured me she would not relock it. The lieutenant
then said that if any of the protesters interfered with the arrest, they, too,
would be arrested. Then about 12 or more police surrounded the car and a
locksmith went to work. The door was opened, Alexandra appeared to at first
ignored the officer until he took her left arm off the steering wheel when she
then spoke to the officer as she got out of the car in his grip. He fastened
the plastic cuffs on her and the cameras bunched in for the shot.
As she was led away, we got a good sound bite as she loudly exclaimed, "Save
the EV1".
Then, they turned their attention to Collette, who appeared to be resisting a
little at first, but eventually was pulled out and cuffed. Both were taken to
the paddy wagon and put inside. About 5 officers pushed the Rav EV into the
street where the tow truck guy quickly hooked it up. All very neat and
efficient. If only our auto industry were as good.
The trucks had the green light and pulled out into traffic. Our two
chase cars were ready to go, Chelsea in one and Mike Kane in the other. They
pull out and follow.
With the trucks gone, the noise level fell off substantially. The press then
turned to interview those of us left and the guards and police tend to the
cleanup.
With all this press, we better get our message out. It's a terrible waste if
those wonderful two women are arrested and nobody hears about it.
The chase cars continued to dial in with updates, but I've now been
on one bar for lots of calls. Just as I hear the beep, someone comes up with a
charger that's compatible. To make it better, I plug into the solar
array. Clean solar juice flows into the Motorola.
Now, I get calls from Alexandra to coordinate with her husband,
Ian, on getting her out of jail. I waited a bit to get a charge in the phone
and drove over to meet him at the SPI chargers at Burbank City Hall.
As I close, Chelsea (accompanied by David Lane) and Mike Kane in the other car
are out past Palm Springs shadowing the transports to the EV1 desert death
camps.
Stay tuned...
**** THIS JUST IN***** I was about to send this when Mike Kane called and
tells me just at the first truck with Chelsea and David following crossed the
AZ border, an AZ highway patrol officer pulls them over and tells then to stop
harrassing the trucker. Looks like he just wanted to delay them until the truck
could get away!! He reportedly chewed them out for
following the truck. The trucker must have dropped the dime on Chelsea.
Amazing! Big bad trucker being afraid of a tiny 110 lb. redhead. Sheesh.
Paul
310-399-5997
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chip Gribben
Save the EV1
http://www.saveev1.oorg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:10:51 +1100, djsharpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Further to discussions with Lee:
> I have been driving my converted Daihatsu and agonising over the
> electrical braking situation at every traffic light. A solution that
> might be feasible is to hit the field winding with current in the
> opposite direction to motoring using two CTs (current transformer)with
> half bridge rectifiers. The high voltage side could be fed with a
> converter but I will not deal with this at the moment. There is no need
> to alter any topography to accommodate this.
> How this would work is that you have some additional control that cannot
> be activated unless you have a foot on the brake pedal first. The
> control could be on the gear shift or another pedal next to the accel
> pedal etc.
> What happens is that you hit the field with more current than the
> current being supplied to the battery. Perhaps this will be stable
> enough with an appropriate control system to slow you. As speed reduces,
> field Amps increases which is what you want. There should be a path
> around the controller with existing diodes. I have not heard of this
> idea before. It could be called a differential braking system for series
> wound motors.
I *think* that's basically what I tried except I used a low voltage
PWM controller to excite the field from a seperate 12V battery. 50A
in the field should result in 50A regen to the main battery. Since
they are in series, the effect should be self regulating - the motor
cannot produce more regen current than the small controller provides
without lessening the voltage across the field and reducing the
generated current, and vice versa.
I only needed one additional diode to allow current to flow from the
motor back to the battery pack, without taking a path through the main
PWM controller.
> The braking current would be much less than a direct current injection
> and should lessen the flux distortion/neutral axis issue.
> Is there a flaw in my logic?
A drawing would help :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So just let the charger run (Click, click,click) for a while, unplug for a
while, then plug in again? Sounds like my cable modem...
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: RoboMower
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Evan Tuer wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:12:46 -0800, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I will do that. I am wondering if there is a short in the batteries.
When I
attach the charger, it starts to fire up, but immediately shuts off,
then
tries again. The batteries are in a case, and I will have to find a way
to
open it to access the leads.
That's a possibility, it's also possible that the batteries have been
sitting for a long time and immediately go to a high voltage when put
on charge, and the charger logic shuts off. In that case they are
probably useless but you could try charging them individually for a
few hours with an automotive charger. If the robot's charger then
stays on, do a few full charge / discharge cycles and you might get a
bit more use out of them.
Actually, thinking more, I saw this after my robomower was unplugged for
all of last winter.
I let it be for a while and then unplugged it. Then I came back and put
the charger plug back in, walked away, and it charged again.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael,
I love the look of the motorcycle with the bagpipes. How creative and
elegant. The bagpipe music would be an improvement over what I hear from
some passing cars but I also like Ivo's suggestion of classical tunes,
maybe Strauss or Offenbach.
Gail
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Michael Shipway wrote:
> I've been considering bag-pipe music for my motorcycle, tempo keyed to
> motor speed of course.
> I've found that a bag-pipe tape in my car's stock 10 watt stereo will
> cut thru the noise of the loudest, thumpiest boom-boom cars in my area,
> and make the thumper's driver turn and look.
>
> Besides, the bike looks funny without exhaust pipes, so I was thinking
> of hanging a bundle of chanters in it's place.
> original real picture here for comparison:
> http://www.generalist.org/madmike/April2002/BikeLeftComplete1.jpg
>
> See the edited (Bag-pipified) image here:
> http://www.generalist.org/madmike/April2002/BikeLeftComplete1wBagPipes.jpg
>
>
> "Mad" Mike Shipway
>
> Ivo Jara wrote:
>
> >I have heard that robots in industrial plants in japan play classical tunes
> >to warn workers of their approach, why not play mozart or beethoven while
> >coasting down the street ?
> >
> >ivo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like there is a bad connection in your pack, or possibly a fuse
in the charger or in the wiring between the charger and pack has blown
or has high resistance.
The check the first thing, see if the truck drives. To check the
second thing, see if the voltage at the output of the charger is
really 150V+ when switched on, and check the wiring between it and the
pack. If you have not used a multimeter before, be careful and ask
someone with experience to help.
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:01:04 -0800, Roger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello EV wizards,
>
> Time for your masterful help. I have a Jet Industries '80 Ford Courier
> pickup conversion.
> It runs fine (slow but fine). Up until yesterday, the Soleq charger put
> out 20 amps into
> the 120volt (20 6v trojans) pack. And as the pack charged, the current
> dropped while the
> voltage rose to 150v. Normally when the pack is fully charged (14 ish
> hours), the pack
> reads 128 volts (from the Link 10 meter). Yesterday morning the pack
> read 120v. And yet
> when I plugged in the charger, IT showed 150v at 1 amp. (As if the pack
> were full). I just
> tested it now and the pack reads 118v while the charger meter peaked to
> 160v (full scale)
>
> help! My first guess is that the charger has good bad. Any suggestions
> for diagnosing it?
> Any ideas for repairing it? circuit diagram?
>
> It also charges the aux 12v battery, and that circuit works fine.
>
> the charger is model SVC-120-2k-60-12
>
> thanks
> jolly roger
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, but you live in a DRY climate. These failures over time appear in
wetter climates.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
> Less stress on the DC/DC, longer run times if a Event occurs.
>
> Both of my Evs have NO aux battery and have DCP DC/DCs. I have had no
> issues. But time is progressing, I expect that they will die from corosion
> and rotting Cedars needels.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
>
>
> > Mark Hanson wrote:
> > > I now have my DC converter switched with the ignition and use an aux
> battery
> > > like normal people.
> >
> > What are the advantages of using a aux battery besides having a backup
> > if the DC/DC dies?
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He doesn't, that's the whole point :)
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de David Dymaxion
Enviado el: lunes, 14 de marzo de 2005 18:26
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: Warning sound for approaching EV
Big problem, how do you keep your kilt from flying open when cruising
at highway speeds?
--- Michael Shipway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've been considering bag-pipe music for my motorcycle, tempo keyed
> to
> motor speed of course.
> I've found that a bag-pipe tape in my car's stock 10 watt stereo
> will
> cut thru the noise of the loudest, thumpiest boom-boom cars in my
> area,
> and make the thumper's driver turn and look.
>
> Besides, the bike looks funny without exhaust pipes, so I was
> thinking
> of hanging a bundle of chanters in it's place.
> original real picture here for comparison:
> http://www.generalist.org/madmike/April2002/BikeLeftComplete1.jpg
>
> See the edited (Bag-pipified) image here:
>
http://www.generalist.org/madmike/April2002/BikeLeftComplete1wBagPipes.jpg
>
>
> "Mad" Mike Shipway
>
> Ivo Jara wrote:
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the wire in the armature is supposed to be coated with an insulating layer,
they shouldn't short due to water, but any piece of dirt (no matter how
small)in the wrong place could cause a disaster, I don't really know, clean
thoroughly, use an air compressor, test it with low volts and amps (just in
case).
Good luck
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de M.G.
Enviado el: lunes, 14 de marzo de 2005 23:32
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Flooded motor
Great news I just found out that a newer fork truck is being scrapped at
work and I get to gut it for all of it's electrical components.
Now the bad news the truck was in a flood and everything is muddy and rusty.
I'm not to worried about the mud but the rust concerns me I want to try
to use this motor in my first conversion.
I will take the motor apart and replace the bearings and clean it as
best possible.
My question is it possible to check the armature for damage "shorted
windings" with a growler used for checking starter motors? The armature
I am talking about is pretty large it is from an 11 inch traction motor.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
My EV Grin is coming soon :)
Mike G.
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--- Begin Message ---
Wide or narrow has almost nothing to do with the footprint. At a given
pressure, the footprint will be the same size regardless of wether it's a
wide or narrow tire. The only difference will be if it's a short, wide
footprint or a long, narrow footprint.
Seriously, if you want a low rolling resistance tire, ask your chosen
manufacturer which of their tires will have the lowest RR in your
application. All this guessing crap based on tire pressure, load ratings,
etc. is just that...a guess.
> I haven't been following the posts for this thread too closely but I
> assumed that with higher pressure tires, like the Agilis, if I used a
> narrower tire, I would get a smaller footprint with less contact on the
> road which would give me lower rolling resistance. Kind of like the
> difference between a road bike tire and a mountain bike tire. Did I miss
> something? Thanks.
>
> John
>
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: Tires again - tire width
> Date:
>
> Mon, 14 Mar 2005 7:06:02 AM EST
> From:
>
> "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
>
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
>
> Why do you want to change to narrower tires?
>
> For the same tire pressure and tire construction, the rolling resistance
> will be less for a wider tire. (because the deflection will be less)
>
> The reasons bicycle tires are very narrow have more to do with weight and
> air drag than rolling resistance. Also, narrow bike tires can be made to
> handle higher pressure more easily ( the tire stresses are lower for a
> given
> pressure if the tire is narrower) so that narrower tires can indirectly
> result in lower rolling resistance by allowing higher pressure. Also,
> because the stresses within a narrower tire are lower, that allows for
> thinner, more flexible sidewalls; that can also result in lower rolling
> resistance.
>
> But these benefits doesn't apply to car tires - narrower tires don't allow
> for higher pressures ( and, I don't believe, thinner sidewalls) Also, I
> don't think the weight difference would be significant in a car.
>
> Phil Marino
> Rochester, NY
>
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> __________________________________________________________________
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try here, they are not pricy, and seem ok, you would have to confirm range,
seems a little bit too much, but since you have decided to charge at work,
it's no problem.
http://www.goldenmotor.com/JDbike/JD-ebikeprod.htm
That's the link, good luck
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Mark Dodrill
Enviado el: lunes, 14 de marzo de 2005 16:53
Para: EV List
Asunto: Advice on electric scooter sought
Hello all. It's been so unseasonable warm and sunny here in Seattle this
year, I've been thinking using an electric scooter to get to and from
work, instead of my car. A full electric car just isn't in the cards
for me now, but I did get a tax refund that might work.
I'm looking for an electric scooter that meets the following
requirments:
* It's a 11 mile (~18 km) commute one-way, so I'm sure I would
need to charge at work.
* Total elevation change is about 200 feet from start to finish,
with about a 250 max elevation gain in the middle.
* Max speed required is 40 mph for about 1 mile
* Other times speed is between 25 and 35 mph
* Some rolling hills but I can avoid any steep up/downgrades
* Full enclosure not required since I plan to ride only when
it is relatively nice
* Either homegrown or production would work
* Efficiency is more important than looks
* Needs to haul 200 lbs of people and stuff
* Don't care about battery weight, size, or chemistry, as long as it works
* Needs to have a seat
* Probably need at least a 750 watt motor
* Probably a 36 or 48 volt system
* Price of around $1500 US
* Ability to pull out the battery pack for charging is a plus
(even if it is 70+ lbs)
Does anyone have a suggestion on what I could use here to meet these
requirements, or modify something existing to meet them?
Ebay has a couple of interesting items: 7140833081,7141765328.
Also, if anyone knows of licensing/insurance issues related to scooters,
I'd appreciate that as well.
All feedback/thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi EV-1 Vigilers an' All;
Read it and wept! Unvbelievable that General Murders would do this!
Thought after Ford gave in that something could be made for and buy the
"General" to get some good PR on this one. Of course not much about this
gets to snowy CT, nothing on say ' Noise" Radio, I mean NEWS Radio 880 in
NYC 24 hour news. IF ya wanna sit through dozens of ads for a few snips of "
News" I don't watch much TV, but have friends that do. I ask about the EV
Vigil, I draw a blank look.EV,What? Sheeesh!
I guess that they, the "media" bread is buttered, so MANY godamn CAR
ads, that if they carry GM in a bad light, they will pull their ads. Same
with the car rags, slathered with SUV ads, they can't really talk up EV's
other then a passing mention.Usually sarcasticly, I might ad.
I suppose that it is too late to start a "Purchase Order" type list
onliner that would be a binding offer to GM to put your money where your
mouth is and COMMIT to buying a EV-1 new or used. I got right on the Yahoo
List about the 24k value for an EV-1, that I would BUY one, and fly, or
train ,into Burbank, check in my hot ,big hand ,to BUY it and drive it to a
U Hall or Auto Hauler to get it back to CT, or maybe EVen DRIVE it home
after I retire and have lottsa charging time<g>!
I suppose that GM had destroyed the tooling to build more EV's? Too late
to buy it up. After all the Packard tooling in the 50's HAD to have gone
behind the Iron Curtain, the Red Flags and Zils sure looked like 50's
Packards! But , GM in it's more through ness I'm sure destroyed the Tooling,
rather than sell it? EVen if GM gave in, could they ramp up production, say
with the Govt ORDERING it? Sorta like WW 1l, ALL the auto Co's built planes
and tanks. Lionel, the Train Guyz, auto gyroes for airplane nagigation, on
and on.I'll bet that they could be offering 20006's IF they wanted, with
Li-on cells? If they had spent the money they have spent KILLING the EV's
If this ends like it LOOKS like it's gunna end. NO saved EV's I will
NEVER buy a GM vehicle EVer!! I'll make do with a Crapsler or Ford, I Love
my Prius, though!No need for a GM Iron, and I was WILLING to buy a EV -1
from Day One! Maybe a Chevy Cargo van for a Beast of Burden?Naaah! Another
Ford? Yeah ,I still have a E150 Van runs good, still!And I coulda BOUGHT a
Ranger, had I bid enough! E-Rav-4's are nice but a bit pricy, used. I'll
bet they, GM, coulda sold as many EV as Hummers! HAD they been marketed,
we'd all be driving production EV's as EVerybody else in the car biz woulda
dove in too. We ALL could be breathing easier!
End of Rant, back to " Tires, Again" etc!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:34 AM
Subject: Alexandra Paul arrested at EV-1 Vigil as GM hauls EV-1s away
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--- Begin Message ---
PLease remeber that a smaller footprint also means poorer braking, and EV's
are heavy, so look for a hard steel belted radial, or something made for low
rolling resistance, but not a smaller footprint, that is dangerous,
specially in wet conditions.
Ivo.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Peter VanDerWal
Enviado el: martes, 15 de marzo de 2005 10:12
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: Tires again and Powerwheels
Wide or narrow has almost nothing to do with the footprint. At a given
pressure, the footprint will be the same size regardless of wether it's a
wide or narrow tire. The only difference will be if it's a short, wide
footprint or a long, narrow footprint.
Seriously, if you want a low rolling resistance tire, ask your chosen
manufacturer which of their tires will have the lowest RR in your
application. All this guessing crap based on tire pressure, load ratings,
etc. is just that...a guess.
> I haven't been following the posts for this thread too closely but I
> assumed that with higher pressure tires, like the Agilis, if I used a
> narrower tire, I would get a smaller footprint with less contact on the
> road which would give me lower rolling resistance. Kind of like the
> difference between a road bike tire and a mountain bike tire. Did I miss
> something? Thanks.
>
> John
>
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: Tires again - tire width
> Date:
>
> Mon, 14 Mar 2005 7:06:02 AM EST
> From:
>
> "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
>
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
>
> Why do you want to change to narrower tires?
>
> For the same tire pressure and tire construction, the rolling resistance
> will be less for a wider tire. (because the deflection will be less)
>
> The reasons bicycle tires are very narrow have more to do with weight and
> air drag than rolling resistance. Also, narrow bike tires can be made to
> handle higher pressure more easily ( the tire stresses are lower for a
> given
> pressure if the tire is narrower) so that narrower tires can indirectly
> result in lower rolling resistance by allowing higher pressure. Also,
> because the stresses within a narrower tire are lower, that allows for
> thinner, more flexible sidewalls; that can also result in lower rolling
> resistance.
>
> But these benefits doesn't apply to car tires - narrower tires don't allow
> for higher pressures ( and, I don't believe, thinner sidewalls) Also, I
> don't think the weight difference would be significant in a car.
>
> Phil Marino
> Rochester, NY
>
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
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--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:11:37 -0700 (MST), Peter VanDerWal
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wide or narrow has almost nothing to do with the footprint. At a given
> pressure, the footprint will be the same size regardless of wether it's a
> wide or narrow tire. The only difference will be if it's a short, wide
> footprint or a long, narrow footprint.
>
> Seriously, if you want a low rolling resistance tire, ask your chosen
> manufacturer which of their tires will have the lowest RR in your
> application. All this guessing crap based on tire pressure, load ratings,
> etc. is just that...a guess.
The problem is, Peter, that while manufacturers will tell you which
tyre they think will be best for a given application (based on an
educated guess using the variables you mention), they don't go much
further than that.
Here is an exact quote that I received from Michelin, for example:
"Rolling resistance is wheel width, load, tyre size, tyre pressure and speed
influenced so it is not easy to give a specific answer."
I returned with all the information mentioned and was told a generic
RR figure that with the current technology it "should be able to
acheive". The recommended tyre was the one with the largest diameter,
lowest profile and narrowest tread, in their XT1 range. Not too
surprising!
They are also very reluctant to release specific figures that could
be compared between manufacturers, such as rolling resistance
coefficient for specific tyres based on tests made to ISO8767
standard.
So, you are almost as well to make your own guesses, or preferably
your own measurements!
Regards
Evan
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--- Begin Message ---
That's what the sporran's for.
> Big problem, how do you keep your kilt from flying open when cruising
> at highway speeds?
>
> --- Michael Shipway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I've been considering bag-pipe music for my motorcycle, tempo keyed
>> to
>> motor speed of course.
>> I've found that a bag-pipe tape in my car's stock 10 watt stereo
>> will
>> cut thru the noise of the loudest, thumpiest boom-boom cars in my
>> area,
>> and make the thumper's driver turn and look.
>>
>> Besides, the bike looks funny without exhaust pipes, so I was
>> thinking
>> of hanging a bundle of chanters in it's place.
>> original real picture here for comparison:
>> http://www.generalist.org/madmike/April2002/BikeLeftComplete1.jpg
>>
>> See the edited (Bag-pipified) image here:
>>
> http://www.generalist.org/madmike/April2002/BikeLeftComplete1wBagPipes.jpg
>>
>>
>> "Mad" Mike Shipway
>>
>> Ivo Jara wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unfortunately I hooked up the EMeter incorrectly, having the current shunt
on the positive side of the battery (312V). I toasted the prescaler, and
the EMeter had a great spark fly out the back.
I called their tech support and the technician said that I need to purchase
a new unit.
I opened the unit, and it is all SMT. Where the burn mark is is just on the
input and **may** be a reverse polarity diode. Any suggestions on how to
repair?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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Not to mention that over inflating the tires will result in a harsher
ride, poorer handling, uneven wear, etc.
All things that have already been mentioned.
I really can't understand this reluctance to ask the tire manufacturer
what they reccoment, after all they are EXPERTS on tires. It's their job,
it's what they do.
When I asked the guy at goodyear, he sent me a spreadsheet with
coefficient of rolling resistance that was calculated for my truck, at the
weight I specified, etc.
If you get the cRR from several differenet manufacturers, you can compare
them and pick the lowest. Of course there is no gaurantee that they all
calculate the crr the same, but at least it's better then guessing.
> PLease remeber that a smaller footprint also means poorer braking, and
> EV's
> are heavy, so look for a hard steel belted radial, or something made for
> low
> rolling resistance, but not a smaller footprint, that is dangerous,
> specially in wet conditions.
>
> Ivo.
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> nombre de Peter VanDerWal
> Enviado el: martes, 15 de marzo de 2005 10:12
> Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Asunto: Re: Tires again and Powerwheels
>
>
> Wide or narrow has almost nothing to do with the footprint. At a given
> pressure, the footprint will be the same size regardless of wether it's a
> wide or narrow tire. The only difference will be if it's a short, wide
> footprint or a long, narrow footprint.
>
> Seriously, if you want a low rolling resistance tire, ask your chosen
> manufacturer which of their tires will have the lowest RR in your
> application. All this guessing crap based on tire pressure, load ratings,
> etc. is just that...a guess.
>
>
>> I haven't been following the posts for this thread too closely but I
>> assumed that with higher pressure tires, like the Agilis, if I used a
>> narrower tire, I would get a smaller footprint with less contact on the
>> road which would give me lower rolling resistance. Kind of like the
>> difference between a road bike tire and a mountain bike tire. Did I miss
>> something? Thanks.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> Subject:
>>
>> Re: Tires again - tire width
>> Date:
>>
>> Mon, 14 Mar 2005 7:06:02 AM EST
>> From:
>>
>> "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To:
>>
>> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>
>>
>> Why do you want to change to narrower tires?
>>
>> For the same tire pressure and tire construction, the rolling resistance
>> will be less for a wider tire. (because the deflection will be less)
>>
>> The reasons bicycle tires are very narrow have more to do with weight
>> and
>> air drag than rolling resistance. Also, narrow bike tires can be made
>> to
>> handle higher pressure more easily ( the tire stresses are lower for a
>> given
>> pressure if the tire is narrower) so that narrower tires can indirectly
>> result in lower rolling resistance by allowing higher pressure. Also,
>> because the stresses within a narrower tire are lower, that allows for
>> thinner, more flexible sidewalls; that can also result in lower rolling
>> resistance.
>>
>> But these benefits doesn't apply to car tires - narrower tires don't
>> allow
>> for higher pressures ( and, I don't believe, thinner sidewalls) Also, I
>> don't think the weight difference would be significant in a car.
>>
>> Phil Marino
>> Rochester, NY
>>
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
>> As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at
>> http://isp.netscape.com/register
>>
>> Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
>>
>> New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
>> Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
>> Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 11/03/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
Awesome! Thanks for posting the videos! It was great hearing the
silent rush, barely broken by the sticky tires tossing pebbles. Even
the spinout was quiet! I know race tires are quieter than street
tires (one reason I like the ST* classes, I like the howling tires!).
With a first timer performance like that, do you think they'll let
you stay in a < 2 liter class?
So far, no complaints. I think we are all right for this year. Next year
might be another thing<G>.
As far as we can tell, everyone has been excited and supportive. Being
racers, they are most interested in the potential of the instant torque. Not
having to pay for gas also comes up. Then there is an occasional nod to
environmental benefits.
Let's hope they don't start taking the
volume of the electric motor, then we all would be in trouble. This
revs me up to be racing my in-progress conversion.
Do. Let's get the cars out there.
What is the "ssshhhhhhh" noise? (I think something to do with
braking.)
That is the brake pads on the brake discs.
How did you place in overall times ranking?
Looks like about 65 out of 137. Top 50%. There is still a lot to be gained
with driver technique even before we start optimizing the car.
Congrats on the win, and way to go head-to-head with the gassers!
Thanks. It was fun.
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--- Begin Message ---
El Chopper ET. Perfect for this application.
http://www.21wheels.com/elchopper.html Moped class vehicle
http://www.21wheels.com/elchopper_ET.html Full motorcycle class vehicle.
Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 12:52 PM
Subject: Advice on electric scooter sought
Hello all. It's been so unseasonable warm and sunny here in Seattle this
year, I've been thinking using an electric scooter to get to and from
work, instead of my car. A full electric car just isn't in the cards
for me now, but I did get a tax refund that might work.
I'm looking for an electric scooter that meets the following
requirments:
* It's a 11 mile (~18 km) commute one-way, so I'm sure I would
need to charge at work.
* Total elevation change is about 200 feet from start to finish,
with about a 250 max elevation gain in the middle.
* Max speed required is 40 mph for about 1 mile
* Other times speed is between 25 and 35 mph
* Some rolling hills but I can avoid any steep up/downgrades
* Full enclosure not required since I plan to ride only when
it is relatively nice
* Either homegrown or production would work
* Efficiency is more important than looks
* Needs to haul 200 lbs of people and stuff
* Don't care about battery weight, size, or chemistry, as long as it works
* Needs to have a seat
* Probably need at least a 750 watt motor
* Probably a 36 or 48 volt system
* Price of around $1500 US
* Ability to pull out the battery pack for charging is a plus
(even if it is 70+ lbs)
Does anyone have a suggestion on what I could use here to meet these
requirements, or modify something existing to meet them?
Ebay has a couple of interesting items: 7140833081,7141765328.
Also, if anyone knows of licensing/insurance issues related to scooters,
I'd appreciate that as well.
All feedback/thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.
Mark
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On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Dave wrote:
So just let the charger run (Click, click,click) for a while, unplug for a
while, then plug in again? Sounds like my cable modem...
That's what I did. It did eventually charge (and was then ok for all of
last season)
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: RoboMower
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Evan Tuer wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:12:46 -0800, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I will do that. I am wondering if there is a short in the batteries. When
I
attach the charger, it starts to fire up, but immediately shuts off, then
tries again. The batteries are in a case, and I will have to find a way
to
open it to access the leads.
That's a possibility, it's also possible that the batteries have been
sitting for a long time and immediately go to a high voltage when put
on charge, and the charger logic shuts off. In that case they are
probably useless but you could try charging them individually for a
few hours with an automotive charger. If the robot's charger then
stays on, do a few full charge / discharge cycles and you might get a
bit more use out of them.
Actually, thinking more, I saw this after my robomower was unplugged for
all of last winter.
I let it be for a while and then unplugged it. Then I came back and put the
charger plug back in, walked away, and it charged again.
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