EV Digest 4193
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Range trailer
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: More usable list format
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Series-parallel switch, Home made Controller
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Full-Size GM EV cargo van for sale at surplus dealer...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: EV-1 Vigil
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: DC DC Converter, series in, parallel out?
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: DC DC Converter
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV-1 Vigil
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Just some trivia...
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EVLN(China Revives Market for Plug-in Electric Vehicles)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) I'll be back
by michael bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: DC DC Converter
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Kilo-Amp-About or Excuses help the ego. OT: Motor Horsepower
questions.
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: DC DC Converter
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC to Dc converter
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: EV-1 possible solution
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: EV-1 possible solution
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EVLN(China Revives Market for Plug-in Electric Vehicles)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Transistor Votage Question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Dual Charging
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: SAFT battery company -- does anyone have a USA contact?
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Real Winner
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: DC DC Converter
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DC DC Converter
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: More usable list format
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: DC DC Converter
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Give it a try and see.
I just might do that. They have a 3*4 trailer in there for about $200 as
well, I really don't want something too big.
I guess the big problem with these are the lack of electric brakes. On
the one hand EV's are usually at the edge of braking capacity and this
Prizm has stock brakes (disc front, drum rear). On the other hand I have
50kw of regen ability and have been known to regen the car at 175
[EMAIL PROTECTED] volts (talk about serious charge rate)
The purpose of this would be to make the run from Relay MD to the EVA
drag strip in Hagerstown without a stopover charge in Frederick. Last
year with new batteries I ran 47 miles on a charge and just made it into
Frederick with 37 amps down (well into the bottom 20% on the pack). If I
included a string of 250 37ah NiCDs in parallel with the Hawkers that
could boost my range to 70-80 miles or so.
Could a PFC20 take 300 volts DC input from a set of flooded NiCDs and
put 30ah regulated into my pack (300 volt pack at cruise)? Ifso I could
wire it into the MagneCharger's port on the battery pack (30 amp rated
wire) and not have to worry about different chemestry and a set of
contactors and breakaway interrupts. Then to charge the NiCDs it's just
a matter of reversing the PFC...
Chris
Here is a 4' x 8' folding trailer rated at "1175lbs" for $220:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90154
Smaller one for less money:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42708
Or one for a little more money with a metal floor:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=2575
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--- Begin Message ---
At 11:42 AM 18/03/05 +1100, you wrote:
Dear Sirs,
Would another form of the list -a web based forum-serve us better?
David
Sorry David, This comes up every 6 months or so, the answer is for 95%+ of
users, a most emphatic NO, this list ain't broke, no need to fix it.
Several have set up alternative forums, no idea how much traffic they're
getting (I doubt enough to make it worth it). This list is fine for over
1000 users (the exact number seems to be secret #1). With the large amount
of traffic and many users on dial-up the text-only mode limits the file
size for the best. This structure also blocks viruses and inhibits spam.
Regards
James.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;;
OK My cage has been rattled on this one!! I drove my Rabbit for about 3
years with a homebrew Contacter controller, that worked just ducky fine!
Lee, I believe you called it a "Rectacter" controller, because I used that
wierd feature of Diodes, they pass current in one direction, when they arent
shorted out<g>!
I built up a 3 speed controller, yeah? That sounds like it would be as
smooth as driving on RR trax, but if ya run a tranny, AND clutch, and drive
it like a gasser, slip the clutch starting out and shifting I made it as
smooth as a GAS rig.
OK ,to do a 3 speed in the Baker or Rausch Lang tredition, I had 3
speeds, voltage wise, or the pack wired up in blox of 30 volts each. When
car was at rest, I used 4 big ass diodes to parallel the battery banks. To
speed up, would pull in as big old two pole Hartmann contactor, from my EFP
Daze in Detroit. This would shunt out two of the diodes. CLICK! Instant 60
volts WITHOUT, the drop-to-zero thing that Lee mentioned, with a bit of
clutch slip, you gliss up to a faster speed. For all out 120 volts I pulled
in a single pole to connect the two remaining packs, that are still pulled
in @60 volts to go for 120. Still with me? Believe me it took a lota bench
playing around with batteries diodes and clipleads to figgure the damn thing
out. Oh yes, you start the drill with a main contacter, to pull in to move.
Line switch on a lokie, or streetcar. THIS one hasta be able to break the
power, but with a roller cam of microswitches , hooked up to the gas pedal.
it HAD to sequence up and down, breaking power in a nunber of places.Hell,
all you need is a double pole and two single pole contacters. I dig my old
Rabbit controller up onto the bench to show Dave Cover, when he was over.
Looked at it longingly, the clean, like NEW contacter tips, Freewheeling
diode works great, the line switch was chewed up from doing burnouts as best
my wimpy Diseasel Rabbit clutch would let me.With a stronger clutch I woulda
busted trannys in Waylandsque fashion, Left the clutch as a mechanical"fuze"
if you will. I think I will restore this faithful box. The Line switch came
from a Budd RDC car Amtrak was junking years ago, it was for the 60 volt DC
motor that ran the air compresser. A Cutler Hammer, got a 12 volt coil for
MY uses. RR stuff is nice often has arc shutes. Big Ass diodes came from a
burned up diode panel from an electric MU car for ac to DC rectifuication,
600-700 volts so they had a good enuf PIV. Big Ass diodes are common in
surplus places. OK the other thing I built in was a small AC relay that
pulled in when ya applied 120 VAC charging power. Opening up the Line Switch
so the car wouldn't take off, if in gear and putting EVerything in series
for charging. The safety feature of damn car won't GO when you get in to
drive and it is still plugged in.
Before getting carried off in clouds of contentment, here are the
downsides. Miles of power cable, 2 ought the bundle of cables were as big
around as my arm, 8 as yur connecting, or have to pipe all the battery
commections up to the comtroller. This can be a pain in the ass at wiring
time! Taint as smooth as my Rapture, THAT's why I fondly call my Rapter,
with it's glassy smooth power imput. Once built it was darn near
industructable, But I DID blow out a RR diode, pulling out of Cumbersome
Farms a milk run and POOF went the fuse when I made transition, RR term,
here.To a higher speed, Usually a hiway launch was click...click,, click,
power ON speedshift! Don't try this at home, unless yur godamn GOOD at it.
Of course the heavy Diseasel flywheel kept motor RPM in limits, but if ya
miss a shift you could blow the motor up. Forget a direct drive, it would
rattle your tooth fillings out!OK soften it up with resisters that you could
go through twice, RR Trolley car style, or get a 5 speed gear box, cruise @
60 volts, batteries love it!Oh yeah! Ya SHOULD , Gotta, fuze EACH 30 volt
battery bank!! Safety here, pop out ALL the fuzes and diddle away, working
on car, in relative electrical safety.
Botton line, you CAN do a cheepo contacter controller of this sort, and
if it breaks any bright 12 year old kid can figure it out and fix it! How
good of a parts scrounger are you?Helps if ya work for an RR and know where
old trains go to die!<g>!
YMMV
Clicking along
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.recycledgoods.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=9435
No personal interest, I just stumbled across this, and it's hard to find with
Google. Might be a good opportunity.
-Jay
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--- Begin Message ---
> Chip Gribben wrote:
>
> >My idea to take out our frustrations on GM is to
> >procure a Hummer H2
> >(legally of course) and have a slam fest on it.
What if instead we could use the "amazing" Electrovair II in our favor somehow.
http://www.cardatabase.net/static/Chevrolet/Electrovair_II.php
The fact that they made that car way back in 1966!
"532 volts using silver-zinc batteries. 115 hp AC-Induction
motor. Top speed of 80 mph. Range was 40 to 80 miles." In 1966!!
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/monzapr7.html
I say let that propriety, black box, EV1 go. GM is too tied up with
the oil companies. It seems some on this list are attempting to start
their own conversion companies. That is the way to go.
Imagine an entire used car dealership where every car on the lot was
converted to electric. With the way oil prices are going, and if the
conversions prices were reasonable, they might very well sell to early
adopters. Got to get the ball rolling some how.
I want to build a performance EV for myself. With an impressive
example, it should sway peoples preconceived notions of electrics.
After I build mine, I MIGHT consider doing clean conversions and
selling those on the side.
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All input is welcome .
Martin K wrote:
Martin K wrote:
There's absolutely no guarantee that they are going to share the
current the way you want them too.
Do you really have a 348v pack?
As this is very similar to the last email I wrote, I'm going to tell
you that 247VAC would rectify to a voltage of 349VDC, and I THINK the
range for universal input goes from 87-247VAC (though I just found
one that says 265V)
You /could/ try it. I wouldn't.. well, without safety glasses.
HVDC scares me, what can I say.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize there was talk of a second power supply
there. (the SD-200) Ignore above comments please.
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--- Begin Message ---
Consider me a lab rat. Thanks for the regulator chip pn# I will d more
research.
Mike G
Martin K wrote:
M.G. wrote:
Would it be possible to connect an fet to a duty cycle oscillator to
make a cheap dc-dc convertor? I would like to run a 48 volt power
steering pump from a forklift with a 150 volt battery pack.
So if I build a 555 timer with a 30% duty cycle could I connect it
to a large enough bank of fet's to run it safely? I think I would
need about 30 amps continuos 50 amp peak. Would this be more
efficient than a Mr2 power steering setup?
Mike G.
30 amps at 48v is almost 2HP. Are you sure it's going to use that much
electricity?
Trying to build something including "a bank of FETs" that potentially
supplies 2.4kW as your first SMPS is a recipe for flying bits of
plastic and silicon. If you are very careful and you get someone to
design something for you (or at least have someone check out your
design) you might get lucky and have something that works. But you
need things like current limiting, and if you add that you might as
well make it regulated with a chip like the MC34025. I don't mean to
discourage you, if you really want to do it you can - but it'll take a
lot of time and learning.
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--- Begin Message ---
I say, hit 'em where it hurts! The EV1 was created with tax money, and the
government gave them some sort of incentive to produce it, I say write your
congressman and representatives and tell them that GM needs to give back the
money!
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
I say let that propriety, black box, EV1 go. GM is too tied up with
the oil companies. It seems some on this list are attempting to start
their own conversion companies. That is the way to go.
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--- Begin Message ---
http://econogics.com/ev/evhistg.htm
EV-1
Impact
The Impact was the prototype predecessor to the EV-1, designed primarily by
AeroVironment. Interestingly, the performance of the Impact seemed to diminish
as it evolved into the EV-1. Consider the GM-published specifications for the
Impact:
Acceleration - 0-60 mph in 8 seconds
Maximum speed (governed) - 70 mph; (modified for speed tests) - 183 mph
Range - 120 miles at 55 mph steady speed
These figures were achieved using 32 Delco-Remy 10-volt sealed lead-acid
batteries rated at 42.5 Ahr, weighing a total of 870 pounds. 2 AC motors were
used, one to each front wheel, each rated at 57-hp at 6,600 rpm, with voltage
ratings of 320 volts. These figures were established and published in 1989.
Compare those figures to the specifications of the EV-1 delivered 6 years
later, still a 2-seater, highly aerodynamic car.
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it adding
5ive days to the weekend!
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--- Begin Message ---
China is building the worlds largest Hydro power plant, so they are on
the right track. the US will soon fall behind!
Larry cronk 72 Datsun ELEC TK
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--- Begin Message ---
I have to sign off of the list for a few weeks, to catch up on many
things in my life. When I return, I am going to be selling all of my EV
projects and excess supplies. This is to accomodate my new EV, which is
Brian Hall's '76 Porsche 914. I am going to re-configure it in the next
few weeks, and will be cruising Sonoma County again in EV style.
If anybody knows of anyone who wants to do a BMW 300series conversion, I
have everything (!!) they need....except a donor car.
As the Great John Wayland says....
See ya!
Michael B.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Mike wrote:
> For $69.00 and up Newegg.com
>(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-010&depa=0
><http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-010&depa=0>)
> has the universal (a.k.a. PFC) power supplies you are looking for.But,
> they only supply around 16-20 amps on the 12V rail.
Mike, that's just the kind of thing I was looking for (so apparently I
wasn't looking in the right places) ;-)
$69 for a 15.8 amp, 12 volt supply is just fine as a temp. solution, and
is better than having NO DC/DC converter, but most importantly I can
afford it as opposed to a $200+ unit like the meanwells and DC/DCs built
for EVs. Hmmm, so 100-240 VAC input should be a higher range in DC,
right? Like 120-270 volts or something?
No matter, my 160 volt nominal pack usually stays between 130 and 205
volts (max voltage sag to max charge voltage).
Thanks!
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
>I've done some runs with a G-Tech meter and IIRC it
>was peaking at
>210 HP. I think that was somewhere around 2000 rpm.
Does it hold that power reasonably well, or does it rapidly
taper off? Any idea what it is putting out, at say, 5,000
RPM? I do believe those 2 motors are making like 1000 lb-ft,
if I remember correctly. Strip the gears of a Porsche 930
turbo transmission!
It appears John Wayland is putting out similar power(Minus
30 horses or so) to Poppy with just one 9'' motor in his
Meanie, in order to get 0-60 in 5-6 seconds. That at only
1,200 amps. Adjusting brush timing must really skew the
motor constants, as from a WarP 9'', it appears as if I
wouldn't get more than 145 horse or so at 192V and 1,000 max
motor amps, unless I start changing the constants around,
but that wouldn't be so accurate. Since an ADC9’’ arcs
way before 192V, like at 156V, it seems that would make even
less power, even with 1,200 amps. 145 horse from a WarP 9''
would give me 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds or so from
simulation. Top speed 115 or so at motor redline of 6,500
RPM, varying with tire size. I figured maybe to save weight,
I might want to look into an Advanced DC XP-1227A, which can
handle 8,000 RPM. That may allow me to look people in the
eye and tell them my EV can hit near 140 when I have it,
which would really draw attention to the car and the
possibilities of electric propulsion.
Here are the input parameters I used for the acceleration
simulation, for those curious:
Gear ratios: 1- 3:14
2- 2.01
3- 1.33
4- 1
F- 3.70
Tire Diameter: 21.9 inches
Weight: 2,600 pounds
Center of Gravity: 17 inches (Guessed figure)
Front/Rear Weight distribution: 49/51
Wheelbase: 83 inches
Coefficient of Drag: .28 (Apparently .32 stock, but it could
be lowered)
Frontal Area: 14.9 feet square
Drivetrain Efficiency: 87%
Rolling Resistance: .008 (Non LRR tires for good
handling/traction in this case)
Tire inertia: .6 slug ft squared
Brake/Steering Drag: .003
Barometric Pressure: 30 inches mercury
Temperature: 70 degrees
Wind Speed: 7.5 MPH
Shift points:
Start in 2nd Gear
2 to 3 @ 4800 RPM for .4 second shift duration
3 to 4 @ 4600 RPM for .4 second shift duration (This car has
a really short stroke though, as it shifts faster than that)
Using the EV calculator, with a 300V pack of Optima D750s,
I'd have about 80-100 miles range at 65-70 MPH with 30 amp
draw. Don't think it will turn out that nice, but maybe I'll
get lucky. As stated before, just to be on the safe side,
I’m expecting 30 miles.
Anyway, here are the equations used and the profiles I
created for the WarP 9''(Using same constants as the ADC
9'', so it may be off a bit given the WarP 9’’ is a
stronger of it):
V = (d*rpm)/((a/(torque^b))+c)
torque = k * i^n
k = .0085
n = 1.55
Max i = 1000 amps
b = .907
c = 2068
d = 120
Max Motor volts = 192 (This is the rated voltage of the
Netgain WarP 9'')
Chart:
RPM..AMPS..Torque..Efficiency..RealTorque..HorsePower
0rpm..1000amps..380lbft..55%..209lbft..0hp
1000..1000..380..55..209..40
2000..1000..380..55..209..80
3000..1000..380..55..209..119
3647..1000..380..55..209..145 **peak horsepower**
3840..726..231..67..155..113
4030..584..165..73..121..93
4220..495..128..77..98..79
4410..432..104..80..83..70
4600..386..87..82..71..62
4790..350..75..83..62..56
4980..321..65..84..55..52
5170..298..58..84..49..48
5360..278..52..84..44..45
5550..261..47..84..40..42
5740..246..43..84..36..40
5930..233..40..85..34..38
6120..222..37..85..31..36
6310..212..34..85..29..35
6500..203..32..85..27..33
Some may recommend a Zilla 2k for me. But I don’t want
more than 220 or solb-ft of torque. I don’t want to break
stuff. I’d rather see higher power at higher RPMs if at
all possible, even at the cost of maximum torque. I don’t
care to do an entire overhaul of my rotoflex suspension in
order to fit a stronger transmission and differential than
the Triumph TR6 units I have in place, which supposedly can
take 300 lb-ft and 250 horsepower in a racing application.
And two motors is a turnoff, given the efficiency losses I
may encounter and the literal pain in the rear it will be to
correct(Noting Otmar’s Porsche as an example). That, and
if I did two motors, I definitely wouldn’t want a belt
setup, but a Wayland like setup on his Zombie, which I may
not be able to fit without severely butchering this car. The
calculated 145 horsepower would be satisfying enough, but if
more can be gotten from just 1,000 amps, then I damn well
will want it! 14s and low 15s in the ¼ are good enough,
low 14s and faster would be perfect. Just enough to
embarrass or at least match the new Mustangs!
I’m sure Rich will have some comments to the accuracy(or
lack thereof) of these theoretical figures. I do recall him
mentioning he can somehow get 200 horsepower from a single
XP-1227A at a high 5,000 RPM with a flat torque curve to
that point, somehow. I’m very intrigued at that prospect,
as it would potentally allow me to use a single motor setup
and have some nice top end power as well, allowing for a ~ 5
second 0-60 off a Zilla 1k(In the event that Rich used 1,200
amps and a single motor for that 200 horsepower figure). And
the high redline of the XP-1227A could bring me close to 150
MPH, which I’d just love to do in an EV(Officer, I
couldn’t have been going 150. I assure you, it’s an
electric car.). Basically Porsche performance for Chevy
money, with an alternative fuel at that…
In the case Rich can get a single XP 8’’ to do this,
I’ll have to buy one used and pay him to mod it for me
when I get the cash.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I thought of going to manual steering, but will not.
I have several reasons for this, one relating to EV PR. For example,
I've had quite a few people with badly misconceived ideas about EVs ask
me if it has "standard" features like power steering, power brakes,
etc.. Some clearly expect an EV to not, you know, because they are so
"different and impractical." When you can tell them and SHOW them that
your EV does in fact have these features and does in fact drive like a
"normal" car (but with a shorter range), I believe it helps our cause.
This is why I also need to work on installing Air Conditioning back into
my Cherokee sometime soon. While I might not use the A/C that much (due
to effects on range and because I am used to driving my Jeep Wrangler
which has no A/C), I still think it is important to install because most
people in hot south Texas expect a car to have working A/C.
So, now that I've digressed from the original topic, I guess my point
here is that one of the design goals for my Cherokee EV was/is to make
it be able to function just like it did as a gasoline powered vehicle or
better (you know, minus all of the pollution and noise and other
nasties). Removing power steering in favor of manual steering would
violate this goal.
Besides, the power steering has a negligible effect on my range when I
have a working DC/DC converter. ;-)
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Nick Viera wrote:
I'm guessing you aren't using an MR2 power steering pump? I wish I could
get by with just a battery, and I've been forced to try that and it
isn't working very well; my range is now limited by how long it takes my
12 volt battery to discharge (which is like 7-9 miles during the day,
very few at night) :-/
Put a manual steering box on that Jeep and extend your range:
http://www.discountjeepparts.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/91_459_786
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Could you keep the existing powersteering box and put a single acting
hydralic valve in the circuit?
Operation would be :
When pump is off, spring returns hydraluic valve allowing fluid to
move freely between supply and return, It will turn easy at speed that way.
Then, when you are parking or something and really need the help, flip
a switch on the dash that closes the hydralic bypass valve and starts
the pump.
--
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--- Begin Message ---
If GM sells some vehicles provided they do not go on-road, perhaps someone
on the EVDL with good powers of persuasion could contact Jay Leno and ask
him to convince GM to sell him a non-stripped EV1 if he promises never to
make it a road vehicle. Then an entourage from the EVDL could go reverse
engineer the car at Jay's place.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ivo Jara
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 3:59 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: EV-1 possible solution
Good point
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Lee Hart
Enviado el: jueves, 17 de marzo de 2005 19:37
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: EV-1 possible solution
Frank Schmitt wrote:
>
> some of them went to educational institutions and museums
> >
> > Yes... but to the best of our knowledge, they have all been butchered
> > and stripped, and came with legal contracts that prohibited ever
> > putting
> > them on the road again.
> >
>
> Western Washington University (my sort-of alma mater -- I did a vehicle
> design post-bacc there in '98-'99) got one last year. They'd taken out
> the batteries and the motherboard out of the controller and left
> everything else.
Hmm... I wonder how thorough GM has been. It might be worth surveying
all known EV1s that remain to see if they could still be
reverse-engineered. One might be missing the battery pack and inverter,
but still have the motor. Another might have a battery pack, but no
inverter or motor. A third might have the inverter, but no motor or
battery, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
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Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 15/03/2005
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--- Begin Message ---
There is the next best thing here in Phoenix.
One of the Electric S-10's that was auctioned off in CA about a year or so
ago has the EV-1 drive train in it.
REM: The one that went for something like $20K. research indicates that it
is the only one found so far that was titled with the EV-1 drive train.
It had the NiMh batteries also. IIRC the second one from that auction had
the NiMh batteries, but wasn't the same drivetrain. From what I saw, when
he showed up at a PhoenixEAA meeting, certainly isn't one of the
USElectricar ones.
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
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Larry wrote:
> China is building the worlds largest Hydro power plant, so they are on
> the right track. the US will soon fall behind!
> Larry cronk 72 Datsun ELEC TK
If China starts to have an electric vehicle boom, will we see big(as
large or larger then whats out now), low cost, AC and DC motors be
made available to us? Any big(high amp) controllers and inverters?
Will Lithium ion starter batteries for gas cars ever be a reality?
Will there ever be "deep cycle" size/capacity lithium ion batteries?
Will the price of those batteries ever be the same or cheaper then
lead batteries?
What time frame are we looking at here?
How come lead acid batteries are all still made in the US, and why
isn't there competition from China in that market?
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Thanks, Peter. I'm not sure how much an electronics class would help, other
than maybe getting me some hands-on experience. The course descriptions
seem to cover everything I already know. Instead of "Electronics for
Dummies" I think I need a book entitled "Electronics for People Who have
Already Read 14 Books on Electronics and Still Have Trouble with it" :).
Anyway, what I'm trying to accomplish is actually a little different than my
original question. I've been talking to Cedric Lynch about my making a
modification the BMS modules that he sells for ThunderSky cells.
His modules have a resistor in series with a transistor that is activated
when the cell reaches 4.2V, and shunts about 250mA. When the cell voltage
reaches 4.25V, the BMS also turns on an opto-isolator. My idea, which he
thinks would work, would be to incorporate a second shunt transistor at that
point, which would burn up the rest of the current and keep the cell from
going over 4.25V.
Let's say I attach a TIP142's collector and emitter across the + and -
terminals of the cell, respectively. I attach one side of the opto to the +
side of the cell, and the other to the base of the TIP142. Here's the
caveat. The opto can handle a max of 50mA, so I need a resistor or
something between the opto and the base of the TIP142 to limit current. I
need to determine the size of the resistor.
My problem is reading datasheets. Is there somewhere on the Internet where
it's explained well? For example, all the electronic books that I've read
say that there's a .7V drop between the base and emitter of a transistor.
But the TIP142 is a Darlington. Logically (to me anyway), that would make a
1.4V drop across the B/E of the TIP142, since the current path goes across 2
B/E junctions. That would mean my resistor should be (4.25 - 1.4)V / 50mA =
57 Ohms.
However, in the TIP142's datasheet, I see no mention of 1.4V anywhere. I do
see something that says V-be(on) = 3V. Does this mean that the TIP142
really drops 3V, and I should use (4.25 - 3)V / 50mA = 25 Ohms instead?
Well, sorry for the long post, but it's just these little details that
aren't clear to me. Or maybe there's something more fundamental that I'm
not grasping.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:58 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Transistor Votage Question
Based on the question, I going to guess that the calculations are beyond
your current skills.
You need to know the value of the resistor, the complete specs for the
transistor and the voltage and waveform applied to the transistors base.
If you knew all of that, then you could run the calculations to *estimate*
the voltage drops, or use a program to calculate it for you.
Simplest way would be to measure it with a voltmeter or O'scope.
If you really need to calculate it, then I'd suggest seeing if you local
community college offers a basic electronics course. Well worth the
money.
> If a resistor is connected in series with the collector of a transistor
> and
> the two are connected across a voltage that may be different at different
> times, how do you calculate how much voltage will be dropped by the
> resistor
> and transistor respectively for different voltages? Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
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I've been struggling with how to charge both the Nicad and TS cells that
will be in my conversion. I could charge them separately, but that would
require either multiple chargers, or a single charger that I'd have to
adjust between Nicad and TS every time.
So what about charging both packs simultaneously? Here's a (possibly wacky)
idea I've come up with. Please feel free to shoot holes in it, or make
suggestions on how to improve it.
1) PFC-30 charger is hooked to both packs in parallel
2) The connection between the PFC-30 and the Nicads is made by two parallel
strings of light bulbs, one set for 13A and the other for 8A
3) The connection to the TS cells is direct
4) With the PFC-30 set for 30A, initially the Nicads get 21A and the TS
cell 9A
5) After some period of time, a timer turns off the 13A string of bulbs, so
now the Nicads are getting 8A and the TS cells 22A
6) After another period of time, a timer turns off the 8A string, so
charging for the Nicads is completed, and the TS cells are getting the full
30A
7) The BMS modules on the TS cells take care of making sure that the TS
cells don't get overcharged -- maybe they can even talk to the PFC-30 in
some way. I'll have to ask Herr Rudman about it.
That's the idea, and if it works, maybe I can sell if for $50,000,000 on
Ebay :)
Let me know your feedback.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
At 08:16 AM 3/17/05 -0700, you wrote:
I need to talk to someone within SAFT. Does anyone on the list have a
USA contact and telephone numbers? I would prefer a battery or charger
engineer, but will be happy to start with anyone who knows the company.
Thanks,
Steve
1993 Dodge TeVan EV
Lou Magnarella
Sales Manager, Electric Vehicles/AGV
Saft America Inc.
711 Industrial Blvd.
Valdosta, GA 31601
(Ph) 229-245-3015
(F) 229-247-8486
(CP) 229-251-9827
new e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Now, here's a winner:
>
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50552&item=5761261229&rd=1
>
>
>
> This guy will tell you how to build an electric car that doesn't have to be
plugged in.
> Could it be a hybrid??
> Idea is only 6.5% of $50,000,000 to learn about and there is a 50% money back
> guarantee if it doesn't work. So, bid with confidence!
I asked the seller myself:
"Can you offer any evidence that you have any idea what you are talking about?
Hopefully not "generators in the wheels" or "windmill on the hood". There are
enough people with no memory of their basic high school physics class (and
several of the laws of thermodynamics) to make a couple lines on eBay make you
look like a kook. Please put something in your listing that could prove
otherwise."
And got this reply:
This is an idea you do not get a finished product. Which your statement(s) and
lack of questions insinuate that you need a finished product to believe in the
possiblity of the idea. This is obviously not guaranteed to work, and I would
suspect someone that bids on this is bit of a risk taker. If the idea pans out
the reward could be good, not to mention something to be proud of, being
involved on any part of it. The idea I believe, is worth the 6.5% of
$50,000,000.00 even if a working prototype is built and it isn't fully
succesful. Someone with more expertise should be able to fully implement this
idea into a working prototype. If not they should be at least closer to making
it happen in the near future. I do not have an expertise in electronics or
physcics. I do have a fairly extensive racing background in motorcycles, karts
and cars. I've studied on electric vehicles vaguely for the past couple years
and spent a couple years involved with RC car racing.
And my reply was:
You've studied EVs "vaguely"? That isn't very convincing. Just tell me this, do
you know the laws of thermodynamics and does this idea involve trying to break
any of them? Unless you're thinking inductive tracks in our roads, you'll need
more than a vague idea to get anyone interested.
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You could try using two small DC/DC's. I get them in various sizes from
Excess Solutions. 24/36/48 & 66volts seem common. 12v is the common
output. I think you can mix outputs into a common input like a
battery......... LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: DC DC Converter
Mike wrote:
I need a DC DC converter! I really don't have the money to spend on a
Sevcon or similar model, and need an inexpensive solution so I can drive
my EV reliably.
It was mentioned a couple days ago that a computer power supply could be
used/ modified to be a DC DC Converter. Will this work on a 90 volt
battery pack? Does anybody have any suggestions/ instructions on how to
modify it. I am familiar with electronics, but not that much with DC DC
converters. Also, does anybody have any experience with Peak to Peack
Power DC DC converters
(http://www.peacktopeakpower.com/catalogs/meanweel/sd-200.html)? It looks
like it puts out about 16 amps on 90 volts, and costs only about $77.00.
Thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike,
Computer power supplies are intended to operate from 87-247 VAC ( I might
be off by a few volts )
Because these are AC volts, the rectified voltage peaks on the low end at
87*sqrt(2) volts, or about 120 volts DC. This is 30 volts higher than your
nominal voltage.
What I am getting at is that it might work, or it might not. I would add a
filter on the input side and be careful of the current on the output.
-Computer power supplies don't back down gracefully, there's a good chance
it'll blow something out if you continually try to draw too much current.
You could compensate for this (If you can get it to make 14 volts!) by
feeding your aux battery from this P/S through a resistor of probably .25
ohms - the logic being that your aux battery won't let a very large load
go below 10 volts (transient), so you have a 4 volt difference across .25
ohms effectively limiting your current to 16 amps.
-They also aren't designed to run at more than about 75% of what the
nameplate reads (.25 ohms might be too low).
-You might also need to load the 5 or 3.3v rail a little bit to get 12v
out instead of 11.5 or so.
-There's a chance you could get it up to 13.25v, but I'd be surprised if
it would go to 13.8v like you need, without modifying the feedback divider
resistors (if it has any)
But hey, for $12 it's worth a try:
<http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-163-025&depa=0>
And yes, you can parallel them if you use a resistor on each one (do not
connect the power supplies directly)
Use fuses.
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
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http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-010&depa=0
Thermaltake W0011+PFC Silent Purepower 480W with Silver housing -
Xaser Edition ATX 2-Fan Power Supply
Model# W0011 + PFC (SILVER)
Item # N82E16817153010
Specifications:
Type: ATX
Maximum Power: 480W
PFC: Active
Power Good Signal: 100-500ms
Hold-up Time: > 16ms at Full Load
Efficiency: > 65%
Over Voltage Protection: +5V trip point<+6.8V;+3.3V trip
point<+4.5V;+12V trip point<+15.6V
Input Voltage: 100-240 Vrms
Input Frequency Range: 47-63 Hz
Input Current: 8.0A
Output: [EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Question????? What is Vrms? LR...........
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The list format is just fine. There's a lot of information, and if
you want to keep abreast of all the topics, this is the best way to do
it. Web based forums (fora?) would take vastly longer to wade through
and have plenty of other drawbacks.
If you can't handle the individual messages in your inbox, switch to
digest mode. If you don't like digest mode, I recommend that you get
a Gmail account and subscibe it to the list in individual message
mode. This gives you threaded reading and you never have to download
any of the messages if you don't want, they're stored online with 1GB
of space available, for free.
Just my 2 bits worth :)
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:32:03 +1100, James Massey
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 11:42 AM 18/03/05 +1100, you wrote:
> >
> >Dear Sirs,
> >Would another form of the list -a web based forum-serve us better?
> >
> >David
>
> Sorry David, This comes up every 6 months or so, the answer is for 95%+ of
> users, a most emphatic NO, this list ain't broke, no need to fix it.
>
> Several have set up alternative forums, no idea how much traffic they're
> getting (I doubt enough to make it worth it). This list is fine for over
> 1000 users (the exact number seems to be secret #1). With the large amount
> of traffic and many users on dial-up the text-only mode limits the file
> size for the best. This structure also blocks viruses and inhibits spam.
>
> Regards
>
> James.
>
>
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Nick Viera wrote:
$69 for a 15.8 amp, 12 volt supply is just fine as a temp.
solution,
and is better than having NO DC/DC converter, but most
importantly I
can afford it as opposed to a $200+ unit like the meanwells and
DC/DCs built for EVs. Hmmm, so 100-240 VAC input should be a
higher
range in DC, right? Like 120-270 volts or something?
Just a few things to look out for here, some PC power supplies
only regulate the 5V (or 3.3V) rail as it is the main voltage
used by the computer. So if you are loading the 12V rail but not
the 5V rail it will not be able to respond to changes in load.
You might find you're only getting 10V instead of 12. And 12V
isn't really enough either, 14V would be much better. One idea
would be to connect 3 of these in series, either 5 + 5 + 3.3 for
13.3V or 5 +5 +5 for 15V. You'd also get a lot more current this
way too, 30 or 40A! Remember PC power supplies are isolated, but
the common (negative) wire is grounded to the chassis of the
power supply. So if you are putting them in series you need to
isolate the ground from the chassis. Using 3 supplies is a bit
messy, but you could take them apart and put them into a single
housing.
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