EV Digest 4194
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DC DC Converter
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Rabbit replacement
by John Shelton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) more hybrid ideas-smoothing the flow
by John Shelton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: DC DC Converter
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) another fan question
by John Shelton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) wanted 48-54v(ish) programmable, 20A charger
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) power steering and AC, was Re: DC DC Converter
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: another fan question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dual Charging
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Dual Charging
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fiero range
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) RE: EV-1 possible solution
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: EV-1 Vigil
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: EV-1 Vigil
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC DC Converter
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Introduction
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DC DC Converter
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: DC DC Converter
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dual Charging
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DC DC Converter
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: More usable list format...tried that
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: more hybrid ideas-smoothing the flow
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Blue Meanie - California Poppy comparo
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: another fan question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Transistor Votage Question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: EV-1 possible solution
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:24:14 -0800, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-010&depa=0
>
> Thermaltake W0011+PFC Silent Purepower 480W with Silver housing -
> Xaser Edition ATX 2-Fan Power Supply
>
> Model# W0011 + PFC (SILVER)
> Item # N82E16817153010
>
> Specifications:
> Type: ATX
> Maximum Power: 480W
> PFC: Active
> Power Good Signal: 100-500ms
> Hold-up Time: > 16ms at Full Load
> Efficiency: > 65%
> Over Voltage Protection: +5V trip point<+6.8V;+3.3V trip
> point<+4.5V;+12V trip point<+15.6V
> Input Voltage: 100-240 Vrms
> Input Frequency Range: 47-63 Hz
> Input Current: 8.0A
> Output: [EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL
> PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Question????? What is Vrms? LR...........
"Root mean square". It is a way of expressing the AC voltage so that
it gives the same heating effect as the same amount of DC voltage.
However, when you rectify the AC supply (turn it into DC) which is
what happens as the first stage of some power supplies, you will get a
DC voltage that is close to Vpeak.
. e.g. for 100V RMS the power supply sees 100/0.707 = 140VDC. So,
you wouldn't expect it to work at a lower voltage than this if
supplied from batteries.
You may have trouble drawing full current from the 12V output of a
computer PSU without using any 5V current. The transformer is
multi-tapped, but the regulation is done on the 5V or 3V3 rail. So,
typically you can expect the 12V rail to sag a lot.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With all the talk about copying the EV1, I thought I'd share my plans
for my EV. I think we already have a great replacement for the EV1,
the Honda Insight. My plans are to drive my little old 72v rabbit and
slowly upgrade all the components as I can afford to. I'll have a
functional EV that only gets better. This is going to be my learning
curve car that I can make mistakes with. I've seen a few 100,000+ mile
Insights on Ebay for about $5000 and they will only get cheaper. If
I'm lucky, I'll be able to find one with a blown engine or ruined
battery pack. The target price I'm hoping to get is $2-3000. Then I'll
put all the components in the insight and have a killer, lightweight
EV. It has great aerodynamics and if you cover the bottom and block
the front air vents and it gets even better. I think that would be a
great car to use as the new EV standard, the new Voltsrabbit
replacement. Whatta ya think Mike Brown?
John Shelton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking of efficiency with my hybrid pickup idea. Actually,
this idea might work with just about any ICE or hybrid with enough
room for the components. I saw a picture of the bottom of an exotic
sports car and the underside was mosty just flat carbon-fiber panels.
I was thinking that this might be possible to do with a normal car. I
saw some 12v 436 cfm squirrel cage blowers on
http://www.surpluscenter.com/electric.asp?UID=2005030502490527&catname=electric
I could wrap the exhaust with the same kind of insulating wrap like
bikers use to keep as much heat inside the exhaust pipe and place
blowers in different places around the frame to blow or suck heat out
of the compartment. Yeah, I know this might be a diminishing returns
kind of thing but I can put in a lot of work right now and it will pay
consistent dividends over the life of the vehicle. How do I determine
how many CFM I need to move to cool a 2.4 liter, 4 cylinder gas
engine? Thanks for any help.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is why I also need to work on installing Air Conditioning back into
my Cherokee sometime soon. While I might not use the A/C that much (due
to effects on range and because I am used to driving my Jeep Wrangler
which has no A/C), I still think it is important to install because most
people in hot south Texas expect a car to have working A/C.
AC does not hit your range anwyhere near as much as you would think. On
the Prizm the AC system draws about [EMAIL PROTECTED] On a 30 minute
drive that would be 2ah drawn from the pack, or about 2 miles less range.
And boy is it nice in the summer. Comes up very quickly, even with 134a.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I forgot to ask in my last post, how many CFM is sufficient to cool a
72v 6.7" adc being pushed with up to 600 amps. Do any of the fans at
http://www.surpluscenter.com/electric.asp?UID=2005030502490527&catname=electric
look like good candidates? Thanks again.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Need to charge SAFT 100Ah cells and was looking for an isolated,
programmable 20A charger. Brusa doesn't go that low. Needs to have the
ability to program any profile I want (within reason).
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nick and All,
Why are you running either the power
steering or future AC from a DC/DC?
Much better, lighter, more eff,lower cost
would be running them from direct drive DC motors
directly from the pack voltage at a much lower
amperage.
Either could be run with 1-2 hp motors for
your pack voltage. And use stock systems.
Then you wouldn't need a DC/DC as a batt
would easily handle your electrical load.
Though on the AC one lister put it on the
drive motor double shaft and used it for braking so
not draw any power from the pack here in Fla. If you
mostly use yours for stop and go driving as most EV's
ar this would work for you and if you need more AC
just flip a switch to turn on the AC clutch. Saves on
brakes too. The power steering could be run the same
way with some work if you have a clutch.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
--- Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I thought of going to manual steering, but will not.
>
> I have several reasons for this, one relating to EV
> PR. For example,
> I've had quite a few people with badly misconceived
> ideas about EVs ask
> me if it has "standard" features like power
> steering, power brakes,
> etc.. Some clearly expect an EV to not, you know,
> because they are so
> "different and impractical." When you can tell them
> and SHOW them that
> your EV does in fact have these features and does in
> fact drive like a
> "normal" car (but with a shorter range), I believe
> it helps our cause.
>
> This is why I also need to work on installing Air
> Conditioning back into
> my Cherokee sometime soon. While I might not use the
> A/C that much (due
> to effects on range and because I am used to driving
> my Jeep Wrangler
> which has no A/C), I still think it is important to
> install because most
> people in hot south Texas expect a car to have
> working A/C.
>
> So, now that I've digressed from the original topic,
> I guess my point
> here is that one of the design goals for my Cherokee
> EV was/is to make
> it be able to function just like it did as a
> gasoline powered vehicle or
> better (you know, minus all of the pollution and
> noise and other
> nasties). Removing power steering in favor of manual
> steering would
> violate this goal.
>
> Besides, the power steering has a negligible effect
> on my range when I
> have a working DC/DC converter. ;-)
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
> >> Nick Viera wrote:
> >>I'm guessing you aren't using an MR2 power
> steering pump? I wish I could
> >>get by with just a battery, and I've been forced
> to try that and it
> >>isn't working very well; my range is now limited
> by how long it takes my
> >>12 volt battery to discharge (which is like 7-9
> miles during the day,
> >>very few at night) :-/
> >
> > Put a manual steering box on that Jeep and extend
> your range:
> >
>
http://www.discountjeepparts.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/91_459_786
>
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
I am using a Dayton blowers that is 150 CFM mounted on a GE 12 inch motor, the
enclosurer for a Zilla and input air for a 50 amp PFC-50 charger. All of
theses blowers has a 6 inch carburetor air cleaner attach to the input.
The 150 or 200 CFM 5.5 Dia blower that is listed in surplus center looks just
like the ones I am using.
My motor temperature and Zilla heat sink temperature never goes above 27
degrees F above 72 degrees ambient air temperature. The maximum ampere I pull
is driving up a 2 mile steep hill at 600 amps at 50 mph for about 3 minutes.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: John Shelton<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 5:23 AM
Subject: another fan question
I forgot to ask in my last post, how many CFM is sufficient to cool a
72v 6.7" adc being pushed with up to 600 amps. Do any of the fans at
http://www.surpluscenter.com/electric.asp?UID=2005030502490527&catname=electric<http://www.surpluscenter.com/electric.asp?UID=2005030502490527&catname=electric>
look like good candidates? Thanks again.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the patent on this has run out. I think there is a 27 year run a
patent, before anyone can used it. It works very good.
In or about 1890 to 1930, they charge ELECTRIC CARS!!! using light bulbs on a
DC CIRCUIT that was supplying a house at that time, before Nikola Testla
replace the Edison DC with his AC system.
The EV battery voltage was design to be a little less than the house voltage.
In the service entrance where the DC voltage went in, there was a bank of
switches, where the user could put a several light bulbs in series which would
be in series with the batteries to be charge.
As the EV was being charge, the user could set in the living room watching TV,
Noooo. Radio, No again, Ok, reading something. The light bulbs would be very
dim at the beginning of the charge cycle.
When the user saw that the light was at full brightness, than the batteries was
at full charge.
Was this good?
When Nikola got in and screw up the DC system, then we kind of lost this type
of charging.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: Dual Charging
I've been struggling with how to charge both the Nicad and TS cells that
will be in my conversion. I could charge them separately, but that would
require either multiple chargers, or a single charger that I'd have to
adjust between Nicad and TS every time.
So what about charging both packs simultaneously? Here's a (possibly wacky)
idea I've come up with. Please feel free to shoot holes in it, or make
suggestions on how to improve it.
1) PFC-30 charger is hooked to both packs in parallel
2) The connection between the PFC-30 and the Nicads is made by two parallel
strings of light bulbs, one set for 13A and the other for 8A
3) The connection to the TS cells is direct
4) With the PFC-30 set for 30A, initially the Nicads get 21A and the TS
cell 9A
5) After some period of time, a timer turns off the 13A string of bulbs, so
now the Nicads are getting 8A and the TS cells 22A
6) After another period of time, a timer turns off the 8A string, so
charging for the Nicads is completed, and the TS cells are getting the full
30A
7) The BMS modules on the TS cells take care of making sure that the TS
cells don't get overcharged -- maybe they can even talk to the PFC-30 in
some way. I'll have to ask Herr Rudman about it.
That's the idea, and if it works, maybe I can sell if for $50,000,000 on
Ebay :)
Let me know your feedback.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:48:46 -0700, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As the EV was being charge, the user could set in the living room watching
> TV, Noooo.
> Radio, No again, Ok, reading something. The light bulbs would be very dim at
> the
> beginning of the charge cycle.
>
> When the user saw that the light was at full brightness, than the batteries
> was at full
> charge.
Hmm, wouldn't the lightbulbs in theory get dimmer as the battery
voltage gradually increased over the charge period?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am increasing my Orbital count to 22 in a quest for more range. I currently
have a range of 25 miles with easy driving, batteries at 50 degrees F, 80%
DOD. Putting more batteries in tha car is quite a learning experience. I may
have room for 24 Orbitals but I am going to try 22 first.
With The WARP 8" motor & Zilla 1k The performance is about like the stock 4
CYL. Not bad, not great. Driving at 50 to 60 MPH the range is 18 to 20
miles. The Orbitals are definitely a more performance battery but they require
a
battery management system to keep from overcharging/undercharging them.
Pat
I currently have 18 T-125s in my Fiero (used to belong
to Haakon MacCallum up here in Vancouver BC).
By the way, we are having our 10th annual EV show up here in Vancouver June
11th (see http://www.veva.bc.ca where I am the
webmaster). Wayland/Rudman/FatherTime come up for the show almost every
year. It's about 200 miles to the north.
Anyway, my 108 volts is kind of slow with the 9-inch ADC and the Curtis and
I was wondering if it would make sense to go to 216 volts and a Zilla
1K. At least start with 108 volts with 18 Orbitals. I am sure the new
AGMs would give better range than more pounds of tired floodeds. So the
question is - could I expect 30 miles of easy city driving with slight
grades to 80% DOD?
And how is that 0-35 mph performance?
Thanks for your response.
PS. See http://gwinfo.net/e-fiero for my motor rebuild photo story.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know, but maybe, anybody know for sure ?
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de M.G.
Enviado el: jueves, 17 de marzo de 2005 20:56
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: EV-1 possible solution
Don't forget about the S-10ev . Doesn't it have the same drive train?
Mike G.
Lee Hart wrote:
>Frank Schmitt wrote:
>
>
>>some of them went to educational institutions and museums
>>
>>
>>>Yes... but to the best of our knowledge, they have all been butchered
>>>and stripped, and came with legal contracts that prohibited ever
>>>putting
>>>them on the road again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Western Washington University (my sort-of alma mater -- I did a vehicle
>>design post-bacc there in '98-'99) got one last year. They'd taken out
>>the batteries and the motherboard out of the controller and left
>>everything else.
>>
>>
>
>Hmm... I wonder how thorough GM has been. It might be worth surveying
>all known EV1s that remain to see if they could still be
>reverse-engineered. One might be missing the battery pack and inverter,
>but still have the motor. Another might have a battery pack, but no
>inverter or motor. A third might have the inverter, but no motor or
>battery, etc.
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hahaha, good one...
that would hurt.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Jeff Shanab
Enviado el: jueves, 17 de marzo de 2005 21:35
Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: Re: EV-1 Vigil
We GM owners could all drive down to the local ford dealer and trade in
our GM's, make it an coordinated media covered event. :-)
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--- Begin Message ---
flies on a turd ????
I somehow don't like the analogy, but I get the point :))
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de John Westlund
Enviado el: jueves, 17 de marzo de 2005 21:50
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: EV-1 Vigil
Chip Gribben wrote:
>My idea to take out our frustrations on GM is to
>procure a Hummer H2
>(legally of course) and have a slam fest on it. Get
>the spray paint out and
>write messages on it then get out the sledge
>hammers, hack saws, portable
>chop saws, torches, plasma cutters and go at it till
>there is nothing left.
>Make hood ornaments out of some of the pieces for
>our EVs. Mail GM the rest
>of the pieces and tell them to "recycle" this.
Better not be a new Hummer. The irony of such a situation,
giving GM your money, would be both sad and funny at the
same time. A used one ussualy makes sure your money doesn't
go to GM, but instead some sleazy used car dealership. :-)
>Everyone pays like $25 to get their chance to
>destroy the Hummer and the
>proceeds go to the American Lung Association.
Would guns be allowed? That would be awesome...
>If we had concrete proof of all
>the lists and back orders for the car we could put
>that excuse to rest.
As they say, if a bullfrog had wings he wouldn't bump his
ass.
I think proof enough of GMs actions and stalling of the car
exists in various books and publications. "Taken for a Ride"
by Jack Doyle is an excellent source of info, "The Car That
Could" by Michael Shnayerson had some useful info, and
countless articles in the NY Times, LA Times, and many other
newspapers exist and have been posted on the list many times
before. Plenty of studies exist citing EV demand in
California being a significant portion of the market in the
case the cars were offered, although as each day passes they
approach being outdated just a little more.
An entire market is being neglected. Those same people
buying hybrids? Most of those would jump to an all-electric
car quicker than flies on a turd.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Would it be possible to connect an fet to a duty cycle oscillator to
> make a cheap dc-dc convertor? I would like to run a 48 volt power
> steering pump from a forklift with a 150 volt battery pack.
> So if I build a 555 timer with a 30% duty cycle could I connect it to
> a large enough bank of fet's to run it safely? I think I would need
> about 30 amps continuos 50 amp peak. Would this be more efficient than a
> Mr2 power steering setup?
> Mike G.
Sure, but you'd also need an inductor and a freewheeling diode, then some
capacitors to smooth the output, and then someway to sample the output and
adjust the duty cycle of the oscilator so that the output voltage stays
within acceptable range.
The freewheeling diode and inductor are needed to convert the 48V pulsing
DC (which would destroy things like radios, and possibly lightbulbs) into
a ~12V output with a sawtooth riding on it, the capacitors help further
smooth the sawtooth.
If you want a stable output voltage then you need to adjust the duty cycle
to match the current draw, otherwise the voltage will sag under heavy
draws and surge (to possibly up near 48V) under low draws. The easiest
way to do this is to sample the output voltage and increase the "on-time"
when the voltage starts to fall and reduce it when it climbs to high.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
John Martin wrote:
> Hi Folks
>
> I'm reintroducing myself to the list. A couple of years ago, my son
> Nathaniel and I converted a yellow 1974 rabbit thanks to the great
> assistance of this list.
Hey John, welcome back!
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Opps, Damn! (RTFQ Pete)
For some reason I though you were asking about making a 48V to 12V DC-DC
In my previous reply, please replace 48V with 150V and 12V with 48V
Sorry for any confusion.
> Would it be possible to connect an fet to a duty cycle oscillator to
> make a cheap dc-dc convertor? I would like to run a 48 volt power
> steering pump from a forklift with a 150 volt battery pack.
> So if I build a 555 timer with a 30% duty cycle could I connect it to
> a large enough bank of fet's to run it safely? I think I would need
> about 30 amps continuos 50 amp peak. Would this be more efficient than a
> Mr2 power steering setup?
> Mike G.
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
>
>>Try this link,
>>http://www.peaktopeakpower.com/catalogs/meanwell/sd-200.html
>>Pretty attractive pricing.
>>They also have the SD-350 which is 30 Amps output for
>>a small increase in price.
>>http://www.computronics.com.au/meanwell/sd-350/
>>Rod
>>--- Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I need a DC DC converter! I really don't have the
>>>money to spend on a
>>>Sevcon or similar model, and need an inexpensive
>>>solution so I can drive
>>>my EV reliably.
>>>
>>>It was mentioned a couple days ago that a computer
>>>power supply could be
>>>used/ modified to be a DC DC Converter. Will this
>>>work on a 90 volt
>>>battery pack? Does anybody have any suggestions/
>>>instructions on how to
>>>modify it. I am familiar with electronics, but not
>>>that much with DC DC
>>>converters. Also, does anybody have any experience
>>>with Peak to Peack
>>>Power DC DC converters
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>(http://www.peacktopeakpower.com/catalogs/meanweel/sd-200.html)?
>>
>>
>>>It
>>>looks like it puts out about 16 amps on 90 volts,
>>>and costs only about
>>>$77.00.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another caution, unless you have a lot of experience working with high
power FET's (and I'm guessing you don't)
you could end up spending more money creating smokeless FET's and parts
than it would have cost to buy a DC-DC in the first place.
It can be a good learning experience, but I'd recommend you search the web
for surplus electronics stores and buy cheap FETs.
You'll probably also want some low ESR capacitors for the high voltage
input. I've never found those cheap even at surplus places.
> Consider me a lab rat. Thanks for the regulator chip pn# I will d more
> research.
> Mike G
>
> Martin K wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> M.G. wrote:
>>
>>> Would it be possible to connect an fet to a duty cycle oscillator to
>>> make a cheap dc-dc convertor? I would like to run a 48 volt power
>>> steering pump from a forklift with a 150 volt battery pack.
>>> So if I build a 555 timer with a 30% duty cycle could I connect it
>>> to a large enough bank of fet's to run it safely? I think I would
>>> need about 30 amps continuos 50 amp peak. Would this be more
>>> efficient than a Mr2 power steering setup?
>>> Mike G.
>>
>>
>> 30 amps at 48v is almost 2HP. Are you sure it's going to use that much
>> electricity?
>>
>> Trying to build something including "a bank of FETs" that potentially
>> supplies 2.4kW as your first SMPS is a recipe for flying bits of
>> plastic and silicon. If you are very careful and you get someone to
>> design something for you (or at least have someone check out your
>> design) you might get lucky and have something that works. But you
>> need things like current limiting, and if you add that you might as
>> well make it regulated with a chip like the MC34025. I don't mean to
>> discourage you, if you really want to do it you can - but it'll take a
>> lot of time and learning.
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lets say that the 50 volts of batteries are 30 volts at discharge and you
applied a voltage divider battery charger circuit of starting at 40 volts to
the batteries, with light bulbs design for 50 volts.
When the voltage is at 30 volts the bulbs will be dimmer, when the voltage of
the battery is up to 50 volts, then the bulbs are brighter.
Test this out. Applied a 120 volt light bulb on 60 volts of batteries and than
applied it to a 120 volts of batteries. The bulb will be brighter at 120
volts.
You will have to ask Mr Ralph R. Lawence , Professor of Electrical Machinery,
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who is a Fellow, American Institute of
Electrical Engineers. Written the history and science of the general theory of
batteries systems for electrical engineers text and handbooks.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Evan Tuer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Dual Charging
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:48:46 -0700, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> As the EV was being charge, the user could set in the living room watching
TV, Noooo.
> Radio, No again, Ok, reading something. The light bulbs would be very dim
at the
> beginning of the charge cycle.
>
> When the user saw that the light was at full brightness, than the batteries
was at full
> charge.
Hmm, wouldn't the lightbulbs in theory get dimmer as the battery
voltage gradually increased over the charge period?
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I would be inclined to use a PWM motor controller: more suited to the
job. However, one that will work on a 150V battery pack will be
expensive. Better to get the motor re-wound or changed to do the job
properly. If you're determined to use an electronic solution, pick up
a 48VDC, 50A universal input power supply from Ebay, this is a common
voltage since they are commonly used in telecomms equipment.
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:46:17 -0500, M.G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Would it be possible to connect an fet to a duty cycle oscillator to
> make a cheap dc-dc convertor? I would like to run a 48 volt power
> steering pump from a forklift with a 150 volt battery pack.
> So if I build a 555 timer with a 30% duty cycle could I connect it to
> a large enough bank of fet's to run it safely? I think I would need
> about 30 amps continuos 50 amp peak. Would this be more efficient than a
> Mr2 power steering setup?
> Mike G.
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
>
> >Try this link,
> >http://www.peaktopeakpower.com/catalogs/meanwell/sd-200.html
> >Pretty attractive pricing.
> >They also have the SD-350 which is 30 Amps output for
> >a small increase in price.
> >http://www.computronics.com.au/meanwell/sd-350/
> >Rod
> >--- Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I need a DC DC converter! I really don't have the
> >>money to spend on a
> >>Sevcon or similar model, and need an inexpensive
> >>solution so I can drive
> >>my EV reliably.
> >>
> >>It was mentioned a couple days ago that a computer
> >>power supply could be
> >>used/ modified to be a DC DC Converter. Will this
> >>work on a 90 volt
> >>battery pack? Does anybody have any suggestions/
> >>instructions on how to
> >>modify it. I am familiar with electronics, but not
> >>that much with DC DC
> >>converters. Also, does anybody have any experience
> >>with Peak to Peack
> >>Power DC DC converters
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >(http://www.peacktopeakpower.com/catalogs/meanweel/sd-200.html)?
> >
> >
> >>It
> >>looks like it puts out about 16 amps on 90 volts,
> >>and costs only about
> >>$77.00.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Hi,
I set up a forum about a year ago - not at all with the intent to
migrate the EVDL to it (even though some suggested it). I pulled the
forum down because almost nobody used it. I support the current
configuration.
The only thing that seems like it could use change IMO, is a threaded
archive of the list. You can search the lists, and pull each of them
up, but it would be more convenient if they were split into individual
messages. It seems like older messages from the list can be found in
this format (e.g.
http://www.crest.org/discussion/ev/current/msg01452.html), but I can't
find newer stuff in this format. Anyone know otherwise?
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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> I was thinking of efficiency with my hybrid pickup idea. Actually,
> this idea might work with just about any ICE or hybrid with enough
> room for the components. I saw a picture of the bottom of an exotic
> sports car and the underside was mosty just flat carbon-fiber panels.
> I was thinking that this might be possible to do with a normal car. I
> saw some 12v 436 cfm squirrel cage blowers on
>
>
A belly pan is a good idea, however a simpler, cheaper and probably more
efficient idea would be to dump the blowers and allow the air to enter the
engine compartment as it normally would (through the radiator at the
front) and release it into the airstream under the vehicle by using
louvers in the belly pan.
I think the Honda Insight does this, you might try looking under one.
Supposedly louvers are the best way to reintroduce waste air into the
airstream.
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Hello to All,
John Westlund wrote:
> It appears John Wayland is putting out similar power (Minus
> 30 horses or so) to Poppy with just one 9'' motor in his
> Meanie, in order to get 0-60 in 5-6 seconds. That at only
> 1,200 amps.
I believe in keeping things accurate, so a bit of a correction for my friend
John. Blue
Meanie can't hit 60 mph in 5 seconds, but yes, to the 6 second bit and perhaps
even a tad
under (note, this is estimated, but by a guy who intimately knows 0-60 times).
If at some
time I've stated it otherwise, consider this a correction on myself.
There's a huge difference in a car that runs 0-60 in 6 seconds, vs a car that
runs 0-60 in
5 seconds. Both are quick, to be sure, but that extra second removed to 60 is
HUGE. Also,
consider that the light weight Blue Meanie weighs 700 lbs. less than Oat's
California
Poppy. Finally, remember that Oat's car does its amazing 0-60 blast in
basically what
amounts to direct drive, since his Porsche 930 transaxle-transmission is fixed
at 3 rd
gear, where my car can get by on 75 less horsepower (estimated 135 hp vs 210
hp) and way
less torque (less than a 3rd as much) because it retains its Datsun 4 speed
tranny to
multiply torque.
I've driven both cars...California Poppy will smoke Blue Meanie, hands down!
However, Blue
Meanie's stereo sounds better, and can haul 4 scared people :-) Now...with 204V
@ 1000
amps and just 30-50 lbs. heavier than present when I go to the Z1K and 17
Orbitals, at an
estimated 175 hp and with a torque curve that stretches farther out the rpm
range, Blue
Meanie just might get past that pesky 914!
> 145 horse from a WarP 9''
> would give me 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds or so from
> simulation. Weight: 2,600 pounds
Given that your hp is correct, with that weight, 0-60 in the mid 6's sounds
about right.
See Ya......John Wayland
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In general, the gap in the motor is such that a high pressure blower (a
subset of what I think of as a fan) is better
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005031806371456&item=16
-1278&catname=electric
Appears to be a SPAL fan with a resistive speed reducer (like on a
older car). I like those personally, but it may be overkill. I used to
use something similar for custom DMOC645 motor controller
installations. The inrush current is huge, and you might want to use it
on it on the lowest setting to deal with the inrush. The reality is
that I don't have engineering data on a 6.7" motor. So a small blower
would be good to try. If you can get a thermocouple in the exit air and
it is below 250F at the end of your drive, then you should be fine. I
have endurance tested AC motors with exit air over 300F steady state
(class F insulation is only rated to this and this isn't a good thing),
and they worked fine, but I wouldnb't recommend it. If you see 250F
halfway thru the drive/big hill, then stop. The thermal time constant
of the motor is such that if you get that hot, that fast, you are in
trouble.
Seth
P.S. 250F is based on a guess that the motor has at least class F
insulation, which is pretty likely.
On Mar 18, 2005, at 7:23 AM, John Shelton wrote:
I forgot to ask in my last post, how many CFM is sufficient to cool a
72v 6.7" adc being pushed with up to 600 amps. Do any of the fans at
http://www.surpluscenter.com/electric.asp?
UID=2005030502490527&catname=electric
look like good candidates? Thanks again.
John
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Hmm, I'm confused. You mention the base-emitter voltage drop, but
earlier said that the resistor was connected to the collector.
The base emitter voltage drop has essentially nothing to do with the
voltage drop from collector to emitter.
I believe (can't be sure from here) that the 3V figure you mention is the
correct figure for the collector to emitter voltage drop.
Also the current to the base of a transistor is typically very small.
And it doesn't sound like you are trying to bias the transistor correctly
if you are trying to run the shunt current from the resistor through the
base of the transistor. The Base of the transistor is basically the "ON"
switch for the transistor with the current flowing through collector to
emitter.
(Please folks, let's not bring up common base biasing, it's not really
relevent to this application)
A suggestion, why not use a MOSFET instead? Since you are only turning it
on, and not cycling it, it should be fairly simple to control and would
have a very low voltage drop (milivolts?) allowing most of the power to be
disapated across the resistor. In fact you might be able to controll it
directly from the opto
Of course then you'd need a high power resistor and probably some sort of
cooling, but it probably simpler than trying to keep the transistor cool.
Just to be specific, one side of the cell to the resistor, the other side
of the resistor to the source of the FET, and the drain of the FET to the
side of the cell. The Opto would then connect to the gate on the FET.
You can design it around either P or N FET's, whatever you can find cheap.
Possible problem, when initially turning on, the FET's gate acts like a
capacitor. So it can draw a large ammount of current for a brief period
before tapering off to next to nothing, this might cause problems with the
Opto. If so, just use a transistor to drive the gate (sort of like a
darlington arrangement).
> Thanks, Peter. I'm not sure how much an electronics class would help,
> other
> than maybe getting me some hands-on experience. The course descriptions
> seem to cover everything I already know. Instead of "Electronics for
> Dummies" I think I need a book entitled "Electronics for People Who have
> Already Read 14 Books on Electronics and Still Have Trouble with it" :).
>
> Anyway, what I'm trying to accomplish is actually a little different than
> my
> original question. I've been talking to Cedric Lynch about my making a
> modification the BMS modules that he sells for ThunderSky cells.
>
> His modules have a resistor in series with a transistor that is activated
> when the cell reaches 4.2V, and shunts about 250mA. When the cell voltage
> reaches 4.25V, the BMS also turns on an opto-isolator. My idea, which he
> thinks would work, would be to incorporate a second shunt transistor at
> that
> point, which would burn up the rest of the current and keep the cell from
> going over 4.25V.
>
> Let's say I attach a TIP142's collector and emitter across the + and -
> terminals of the cell, respectively. I attach one side of the opto to the
> +
> side of the cell, and the other to the base of the TIP142. Here's the
> caveat. The opto can handle a max of 50mA, so I need a resistor or
> something between the opto and the base of the TIP142 to limit current. I
> need to determine the size of the resistor.
>
> My problem is reading datasheets. Is there somewhere on the Internet
> where
> it's explained well? For example, all the electronic books that I've read
> say that there's a .7V drop between the base and emitter of a transistor.
> But the TIP142 is a Darlington. Logically (to me anyway), that would make
> a
> 1.4V drop across the B/E of the TIP142, since the current path goes across
> 2
> B/E junctions. That would mean my resistor should be (4.25 - 1.4)V / 50mA
> =
> 57 Ohms.
>
> However, in the TIP142's datasheet, I see no mention of 1.4V anywhere. I
> do
> see something that says V-be(on) = 3V. Does this mean that the TIP142
> really drops 3V, and I should use (4.25 - 3)V / 50mA = 25 Ohms instead?
>
> Well, sorry for the long post, but it's just these little details that
> aren't clear to me. Or maybe there's something more fundamental that I'm
> not grasping.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:58 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Transistor Votage Question
>
> Based on the question, I going to guess that the calculations are beyond
> your current skills.
>
> You need to know the value of the resistor, the complete specs for the
> transistor and the voltage and waveform applied to the transistors base.
>
> If you knew all of that, then you could run the calculations to *estimate*
> the voltage drops, or use a program to calculate it for you.
>
> Simplest way would be to measure it with a voltmeter or O'scope.
>
> If you really need to calculate it, then I'd suggest seeing if you local
> community college offers a basic electronics course. Well worth the
> money.
>
>> If a resistor is connected in series with the collector of a transistor
>> and
>> the two are connected across a voltage that may be different at
>> different
>> times, how do you calculate how much voltage will be dropped by the
>> resistor
>> and transistor respectively for different voltages? Thanks.
>>
>> Bill Dennis
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Bingo ! who can contact Jay ????????
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Bill Dennis
Enviado el: viernes, 18 de marzo de 2005 0:57
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: RE: EV-1 possible solution
If GM sells some vehicles provided they do not go on-road, perhaps someone
on the EVDL with good powers of persuasion could contact Jay Leno and ask
him to convince GM to sell him a non-stripped EV1 if he promises never to
make it a road vehicle. Then an entourage from the EVDL could go reverse
engineer the car at Jay's place.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ivo Jara
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 3:59 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: EV-1 possible solution
Good point
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Lee Hart
Enviado el: jueves, 17 de marzo de 2005 19:37
Para: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Asunto: Re: EV-1 possible solution
Frank Schmitt wrote:
>
> some of them went to educational institutions and museums
> >
> > Yes... but to the best of our knowledge, they have all been butchered
> > and stripped, and came with legal contracts that prohibited ever
> > putting
> > them on the road again.
> >
>
> Western Washington University (my sort-of alma mater -- I did a vehicle
> design post-bacc there in '98-'99) got one last year. They'd taken out
> the batteries and the motherboard out of the controller and left
> everything else.
Hmm... I wonder how thorough GM has been. It might be worth surveying
all known EV1s that remain to see if they could still be
reverse-engineered. One might be missing the battery pack and inverter,
but still have the motor. Another might have a battery pack, but no
inverter or motor. A third might have the inverter, but no motor or
battery, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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