EV Digest 4197
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: BB600 Cells - really bad news!
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Hawaiian Electron Marathon)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Prius+)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Hot update RE: AZ Republic article
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Available RangerEV - New Information
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: I Like ICE's
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: I Like ICE's
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Available RangerEV - New Information
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Available RangerEV - New Information
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Anyone want to reply to a Fool Cell supporter?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: DC DC Converter, series in, parallel out?
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Anyone want to reply to a Fool Cell supporter?
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Power Steering and Insight Comments
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV-1 Vigil
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Why I won't use flooded batteries
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Why I won't use flooded batteries
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: wanted 48-54v(ish) programmable, 20A charger
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DC DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: DC DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: DC DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'd been looking at BB600s for quite some time and was fairly certain I
wanted to go with them. When Tim made the offer, this put me in the
position to immediately contact him and put myself on the list. Being
early on the deal I considered them plentiful, and decided to purchase
extras for anyone in my area (central Texas) that might want them, but who
might not be ready to jump immediately.
Given what's happened, it's now pretty clear that this is not the right
thing to do.
I can spare 400 cells out of my order for the next person in line. Tim,
feel free to contact me directly to work out the details.
--chris
Tim Humphrey said:
> Man this sucks!!
>
> I just came back from the warehouse where the batteries are sitting.
>
> At first I thought it would be really great news! There was actually 10
> pallets and not 6 as advertised in the invitation for bid.
>
> But! The government really screwed up the invitation for bid, apparently.
>
>
> On the 10 pallets, were 10 boxes, except for one which had 8. Inside each
> box were two boxes and each of those contained 19 cells. The outer boxes
> had a label on them that said they contained 2 boxes and were 138 lbs. And
> that's where the gov't screwed up. They multiplied the 2 boxes by the 138
> lbs, but it was 136 lbs for the 2 boxes. In other words instead of 32096
> lbs of cells there is actually only 16048 lbs. Which means half as many as
> originally thought.
>
> To be fair, I decided to split these up on a first come first served
> basis,
>
> The sad news is that basically no cells will be headed to the west coast.
>
> I'm really sorry that it worked out this way. I was really excited to be
> able to get these into the EV community at such a great deal, and now I am
> feeling really, really low.
>
> Those who have one coming, a refund is in process.
>
> Sorry!!!
>
>
> --
>
> Stay Charged! anyway
> Hump
> "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry
> Ford
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Hawaiian Electron Marathon)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://starbulletin.com/2005/03/18/news/story8.html
Friday, March 18, 2005 [image] JAMM AQUINO /
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Damien Memorial High School senior Manuel Benitez goes for a test
run around Damien's basketball court. Benitez, along with a team
of 11 students led by Damien math instructor Jonathan Bromberg,
built the car from junkyard parts, including "For Sale" signs and
bicycle tires. The car will compete tomorrow in a race at Ford
Island.
Isle schools revving up for race
Damien's makeshift vehicle is among 27 competing tomorrow
By Pat Gee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When someone calls Damien Memorial High School's electric car a
pile of junk, no one will be insulted.
That's because students scrounged items from street curbs and
other odd places and fastened them together, using plenty of spit
and sweat.
Damien students will be happy just to finish tomorrow's 10th
annual on Ford Island. Damien's entries never finished the last
two races.
Teams from 27 high schools have signed up for the event, which
teaches students of diverse strengths to work together and to
design and build an electric vehicle that performs. Admission is
free to the 9 a.m.-12:30 p.m. event, but security measures will
be in place for entry onto Ford Island off Pearl Harbor.
[image] JAMM AQUINO / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manuel Benitez takes Damien's electric car, which can hit a speed
of 20 mph running on just two 12-volt batteries, for a test run
while Jonathan Bromberg, adviser for the 11-person team that
built the car, watches.
Damien's team coordinator, John Bromberg, said the car, nicknamed
the "MathCar" as a play on "NASCAR," will probably be the
heaviest, weighing in at about 400 pounds.
With a shoestring budget of $900 from HECO, which also provided
the basic engine kit (worth about $800) to all of the teams, the
Damien team had to beg and borrow parts instead of buying them.
The total value of the car is about $2,700, Bromberg said.
Bromberg is a former Navy test pilot who has no experience
building cars, like most of the team's 10 members. They all
learned to build the car just by reading the instructions and
putting in hundreds of hours, beginning in August, he said.
"We had to learn to weld and cut metal. Nobody is an experienced
builder. This is new to all of us. ... We weren't encumbered by
prior knowledge, so we just kept going," he said.
But Bromberg did borrow something from his previous career. He
suggested the students use push rods to steer the car "like an
airplane," instead of a wheel. And the "aerodynamics are
different from anyone else's," making it "highly maneuverable,"
said Bromberg, whose engineering degree also came in handy.
The car was constructed in a crowded, stuffy shack on the edge of
the track field at Damien.
As lead mechanic and pit stop manager, honors senior Manny
Benitez will be in charge on the race course.
Benitez pointed out all the different pieces of scrap used to
build the car: bed frames to build the frame and chassis; the
bottom section of Bromberg's old desk chair for the axle; a
plastic chair from the library for the driver's seat; and "For
Sale" yard signs for the sides.
Hawaiian Electric Co. Electron Marathon
www.heco.com/CDA/default/0,1999,TCID%253D6%2526EmbedCID%253D6857%2526CCID%253D0%2526LCID%253D4631%2526CTYP%253DARTC,00.html
© Honolulu Star-Bulletin -- http://starbulletin.com
===
http://www.heco.com/CDA/default/0,1999,TCID%253D6%2526EmbedCID%253D6857%2526CCID%253D0%2526LCID%253D4631%2526CTYP%253DARTC,00.html
Electron Marathon | Electron Marathon Information
When: March 19, 2005
Time: 9:00 am-12:30 pm
Where: Ford Island
SECURITY PROCEDURES
Due to heightened security, the Navy has provided the following
security procedures:
* Upon entering Ford Island, each vehicle will be stopped and
passengers will be asked to present their ID.
* Vehicles will be subject to inspection.
* The entrance to Ford Island will close at 10:00 a.m. and
reopen at 11:30 a.m.
ITEMS NOT ALLOWED:
* Coolers or any type of enclosed container
* Luggage or bags exceeding 12” x 12”
* Folding chairs
* Pets
* Food, beverages and water bottles
Please EMPTY out all vehicles. Persons with any of the above
items will be DENIED access onto Ford Island:
ITEMS ALLOWED:
* Backpacks, purses & fanny packs no larger than 12” x 12”
* Umbrellas
* Camera and video camera
* Cellular phone
* Bucket of ice (for school teams ONLY)
* Baby strollers
* A clear plastic bag for baby needs. Bag must accompany baby.
Drivers must present current drivers license All passengers must
have picture ID. Driver can vouch for students. Current
Registration, Insurance and Safety Check. REQUIRED ALL
POSSESSIONS WILL BE SUBJECT TO INSPECTION If you have any
questions regarding the above procedures, please call Education &
Consumer Affairs at 543-7511. Copyright © 2000-2005 Hawaiian
Electric Company, Inc.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Prius+)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45502-2005Mar17.html
Forks in the Road for Clean Air
Friday, March 18, 2005; Page A22 [Letters]
The otherwise thorough story on General Motors' disposal of its
EV1 fleet ["Fans of GM Electric Car Fight the Crusher," front
page, March 10] only mentioned a "growing fad among
do-it-yourselfers" to add plug-in capability for Toyota's Prius
hybrid. This "growing fad" is an important development:
Experimenters say they have found a way to double the mileage of
the '04 and '05 Prius models to 90 to 100 miles per gallon and
operate in an all-electric mode with no tailpipe emissions.
The technique involves activating the EV-only button to the left
of the steering wheel (already the case with Prius cars made for
Europe and Asia), adding some batteries in unused space under the
hatchback deck and giving owners the option of plugging into an
electric socket to cut back visits to the gas station.
A California nonprofit group (see www.calcars.org) is starting to
produce the prototype "Prius+" with these enhancements in hopes
that they will catch on with Prius owners and would-be owners in
what is a growing mass market for hybrids.
Toyota and other carmakers have shunned plug-ins on grounds
ranging from claimed technical difficulties to alleged lack of
public demand. But the auto industry has been known to change its
tune, and with gas prices soaring it, too, might decide to join
the "growing fad."
LEWIS GULICK Arlington
The writer is a former editor of Electric Vehicle News.
...
Maryland is considering adopting the California Low Emissions
Vehicle program, although it has no proven environmental benefits
above and beyond the federal program ["Cleaner Cars in Maryland,"
editorial, March 15].
In 1999 automakers worked with the Clinton administration to
adopt the Environmental Protection Agen- cy's Tier II emissions
standards -- the most stringent federal emissions standards ever.
These standards were designed to address air-quality issues that
California standards do not. Under these rules, cars and light
trucks -- including sport-utility vehicles, pickups, vans and
minivans -- must meet the same strict standards by model year
2009.
Many people in Maryland erro- neously believe that passing this
new legislation will bring more hybrids to the state.
But Maryland and Virginia already rank in the top five nationally
for new hybrid registrations, so the proposed adoption of
California emissions standards would have little, if any, effect
on the air quality in Maryland.
Additionally, adoption of the California regulations comes with a
hefty price tag -- including a huge bureaucracy -- without
providing any health or environmental benefits not already
available under the federal program.
FRED WEBBER President and Chief Executive
Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers Washington
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh. I was just thinking that a second rear axle could be electrically
driven. Does it have a PTO, perchance?
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
It's a single rear axle truck with dual wheels...
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
Gabe
Do you have 2 rear axles?
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Perf Upgrade using EV components
I am looking to enhance the performance of my Mitsu Fuso truck weighing in
at 11,300 lbs, loaded. It has a 4 cyl turbo diesel and all I can find
from
diesel shops are typical ICE upgrades, chips, larger injectors, larger
turbos, etc. There is a lot of room for batteries under this thing and if
I
can find a motor with some sort of rubber tire mounted on the shaft as
seen
on some roller coasters or log jammer rides, I may be able to transfer
this
power to my driveline shaft possibly via the emergency brake drum. I can
maybe put the motor on a swing arm system with a motorized arm to pressure
up against the drum and swing it away when not needed. Has anybody on
this
list tried this or know if this type of setup would even give me a
performance upgrade? All comments appreciated.
Gabe Alarcon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just got off the phone with the AZ Republic City Editor John D'Anna, I must say
I was totally surprised that I could actually get ahold of him and we had a
great and hopefully EVfective dialog regarding the EV-1 situation. He did think
that the EV-1 blurb in the briefs section was miswrote from the press release
Jim Wolfe gave him and he gave me 3 other contacts in the AZ Republic to call,
said that the EV-1 situation looked like it might merit some additional
followup. I have put in calls to all 3 and of course I got their voice mail and
left a brief message. I told John that I would publish his e-mail only to the
list so he could see that I wasn't just some lone idealist without getting
flooded with calls, he seemed very much on the side of the electric vehicle
cause and even knew the differance between a BEV and a Gas Electric Hybrid such
as the Honda Insight. Maybe I should e-mail him a link to the PP presentation
that came across the list the other day. Anyway, he was very concerned when I
told him about the EV-1 vigil people getting stopped by the Highway Patrol. And
when I mentioned about the fact that the EV-1s had been at least partially
funded by the US taxpayers and that crushing was at least a misuse of public
monies he even shot back that "yah, GM probably is even getting tax credits for
crushing them". Sounds like our kind of guy. Anyway, I feel I am really out of
my depth here, im just a dumb auto mechanic not a public spokesman but I feel
there is some good to be accomplished here. Would really love some help on
getting these guys attention and some possible future press, might even do some
good for the remaining EV-1s. Here is contact names and #s and E-mails.
Remember, John at least is on our side and I think the others are going to at
least be willing to listen. Especially Mary Jo Pitzl who is an investigative
reporter for the Az Republic. I have left the newspaper people my cell # and if
anyone on the list needs to get ahold of me its 602-620-3173.
John D'Anna City Editor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mary Ann Nock Editor (local and enviromental issues and Bob Golfens boss)
(602) 444-8567
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob Golfen Automotive editor
(602) 444-8169
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mary Jo Pitzl Investigative reporter
(602) 444-8963
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Automakers said "no one' wants them.
It must be a 'great shock' for them to have their 'cup runth over'
with requests.
Maybe, just maybe, an automaker might conceed that the public does
want EVs?
naaaah ...
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to agree with you guys on that one. But everything in moderation. The
reason I say that is I went to the Route 66 hotrod car show/festiva in San
Bernadino. I recall thinking everything was really cool watching all the big
american v8 cars and trucks parade by. Then my eyes started to burn from all
the raw exhaust.
Brett
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gabriel Alarcon
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:33 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: I Like ICE's
Boy, you've hit that nail right on the head. I too, as many other
Americans, have grown to love those muscle cars. Where does that love come
from though? I think it was when I was a kid, seeing those commercials on
tv and drooling over those cars. The media really worked and it has been
tough to get out of that love affair. I agree they will always be loved and
will one day be drooling over them at a museum.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ivo Jara<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:05 AM
Subject: I Like ICE's
I'm a fan of EV's, don't get me wrong, I think all transportation among
the
cities should be on ev's, regarding highway trips, there will be a
solution
either for charging times or for suppliying ev's with energy while they
run,
(a trolley or something, even microwave transmission of energy, who knows
?).
The fact is that I like AC cobras, Mustangs, Camaros, and to make it short
"Muscle Cars", but those do not harm the environment, most of them are in
garages, waiting for the weekend, for an ocational trip to a meet or to
the
mall, basically those are too costly to drive, (the car and the fuel)at 3
to
5 mpg, most people do not use them. Their owners do not take them out if
it
rains, there are serious insurance problems, and if damaged they can be
lost
forever.
So My view of the future is:
All EV for transportation, and ICE's in museums and private parties to
feast
our eyes (and ears) once in a while.
Regarding the ICE's used daily today, they will dissapear or be converted,
who would want a toyota in a museum ? :))
Well, Am I that wrong ????
Ivo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This reminds me of something a friend of mine told me a couple of weeks ago
when he was helping me weld the battery box for my EV conversion. He said,
"Electric cars make me sad."
I'd never heard that reaction before. But after reflecting on it, I think
he was coming from the same place as you mention.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gabriel Alarcon
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 12:33 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: I Like ICE's
Boy, you've hit that nail right on the head. I too, as many other
Americans, have grown to love those muscle cars. Where does that love come
from though? I think it was when I was a kid, seeing those commercials on
tv and drooling over those cars. The media really worked and it has been
tough to get out of that love affair. I agree they will always be loved and
will one day be drooling over them at a museum.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ivo Jara<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:05 AM
Subject: I Like ICE's
I'm a fan of EV's, don't get me wrong, I think all transportation among
the
cities should be on ev's, regarding highway trips, there will be a
solution
either for charging times or for suppliying ev's with energy while they
run,
(a trolley or something, even microwave transmission of energy, who knows
?).
The fact is that I like AC cobras, Mustangs, Camaros, and to make it short
"Muscle Cars", but those do not harm the environment, most of them are in
garages, waiting for the weekend, for an ocational trip to a meet or to
the
mall, basically those are too costly to drive, (the car and the fuel)at 3
to
5 mpg, most people do not use them. Their owners do not take them out if
it
rains, there are serious insurance problems, and if damaged they can be
lost
forever.
So My view of the future is:
All EV for transportation, and ICE's in museums and private parties to
feast
our eyes (and ears) once in a while.
Regarding the ICE's used daily today, they will dissapear or be converted,
who would want a toyota in a museum ? :))
Well, Am I that wrong ????
Ivo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, if it's true, then find one of the owners close to the end of his
lease. Have members of the EVDL go down and take the thing apart to reverse
engineer. Then the owner can tell GM to come pick up the pieces at the end
of the lease. :)
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Chapman
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 12:07 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
Anyone else see this or know anything about this short blurb in the
3/17/2005 AZ Republic page B4, bottom right quarter? I am assuming it is a
complete mis-statement by the normally misguided and inaccurate staffers but
I want to make sure. I figure it is some cross confuguliation of the normal
Phoenix EAA meeting that is normally held on the 3 Sat, but it is funny how
it plays right into GMs mis-information campaign.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Electric cars join show in Pavilions parking lot
SCOTTSDALE- See the automotive equivalent of a dinosaur Saturday in the
McDonald's parking lot at the Pavilions, Pima and Indian Bend Roads. Members
of the Electric Auto Association-Phoenix Chapter will start gathering with
their EV-1s at about 2 PM and will be available to talk about their cars
from 4 PM until dark. Unlike most of the classic cars in the lot, the EV-1s
on display are relatively new, the product of a four-year GM experiment with
electric cars.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Hmm, if this is true I want to know as although I have a lot going on
tomorrow I will dump EVerything and be there.
Hope the EV-1s are securely looked after, everyone here in Phx knows how
many cars are stolen every day and end up south of the border, never to be
heard of or seen again. I wonder what a mini storage in Sonora goes for?
David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:34 PM 3/18/2005, you wrote:
Automakers said "no one' wants them.
It must be a 'great shock' for them to have their 'cup runth over'
with requests.
Maybe, just maybe, an automaker might conceed that the public does
want EVs?
Don't worry, they will conveniently "loose" any records showing that there
were many people trying for these.
Remember, "there wasn't a waiting list" for EV1's.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't worry, they will conveniently "loose" any records showing that
there were many people trying for these.
Remember, "there wasn't a waiting list" for EV1's.
Maybe, but let's face it: Ford is doing this. They are now "good" and
should be showered with love and affection.
Perhaps I should instead post a big "Thank you Ford" sign on the Prizm
and drive to one of their dealers.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The British motorbike fuel-cell article, does not mention how the hydrogen and
oxygen is produce. It may be of the type that is produced on board with a fuel
cell that splits water with a electrolyte of KOH or the Element Palladium with
Platinum electrodes to Hydrogen and Oxygen on demand as the engine needs it.
I received some data on this a week ago, and I will be receiving more data and
will post any new data as I received it.
The engine is normally not a 4 stroke type, as where the compression stroke is
not needed. Hydrogen and Oxygen when injected into a standard 4 stroke with 1
oz of Hydrogen to 8 oz of Oxygen directly to the intake value sets cannot have
any advance at all, the ignition of the spark plug is done just over top dead
center, or you will take out the crank shaft bearings.
I KNOW THIS, BECAUSE OUR TEAM EXPERIMENT WITH ONBOARD FUEL CELLS THAT MAKE
HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN ON DEMAND!!!!
The standard engine is not ideal for a hydrogen-oxygen fuel system. You do not
need a compression and exhaust stroke. The hydrogen-oxygen has about 550,000
btus of energy per gallon of water compare to gasoline which has 115,000 btus
per gallon.
Then there is the problem of blow by when the hydrogen and oxygen is ignited,
it makes water and if your pistons rings has gaps it it, it will diluted the
oil in a oil sump.
You can get around this by using no-gap piston rings and a oil seperator. A
motorbike engine uses a oil tank out side the engine. Here you can collect the
water in a separated sump at the bottom of the engine.
A small turbine engine would work. Using a exhaust driven turbine charger
should work.
With this type of fuel system, you do not need any storage of hydrogen or
oxygen or delivery systems for it.
This is the drawback that everybody is talking about, but this eliminates that
step in the process.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: John G. Lussmyer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion List<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 7:43 AM
Subject: Anyone want to reply to a Fool Cell supporter?
Discussion on Slashdot:
horza has posted a comment in reply to your comment.
Re:Another Fool Cell
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=142856&cid=11974320<http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=142856&cid=11974320>
I just don't have my materials handy, and don't have the time right now.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com<http://www.casadelgato.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart said:
> No; you can't wire DC/DC converter inputs in series. They are not
> resistors; the voltage will not divide evenly between them unless you
> *force* them to all operate at exactly the same output power all the
> time. In most cases, there is no way to force them to do this.
>
> But what you *can* do is connect each one across 1/3rd the pack. Then
> connect their outputs in parallel (each through a commoning diode).
> Adjust their output voltages to be the same; this means the voltage drop
> across each commoning diode is the same, therefore, they are all
> deliveing about the same current. This means their input currents are
> the same, and they won't unbalance the pack.
Thanks -- this makes sense, except I'm not sure what you mean about the
diode. A Google search for the quoted phrase "commoning diode" yields 2
hits, each of them in EVDL discussions involving you. :o)
Is this a normal diode serving a particular purpose, or a special type of
component?
--chris
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Where do you get the energy to split they water into H2 and O?
Seems to be a negative energy system still if this is done onboard and on
demand.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: March 18, 2005 1:01 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Anyone want to reply to a Fool Cell supporter?
The British motorbike fuel-cell article, does not mention how the hydrogen
and oxygen is produce. It may be of the type that is produced on board with
a fuel cell that splits water with a electrolyte of KOH or the Element
Palladium with Platinum electrodes to Hydrogen and Oxygen on demand as the
engine needs it.
I received some data on this a week ago, and I will be receiving more data
and will post any new data as I received it.
The engine is normally not a 4 stroke type, as where the compression stroke
is not needed. Hydrogen and Oxygen when injected into a standard 4 stroke
with 1 oz of Hydrogen to 8 oz of Oxygen directly to the intake value sets
cannot have any advance at all, the ignition of the spark plug is done just
over top dead center, or you will take out the crank shaft bearings.
I KNOW THIS, BECAUSE OUR TEAM EXPERIMENT WITH ONBOARD FUEL CELLS THAT MAKE
HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN ON DEMAND!!!!
The standard engine is not ideal for a hydrogen-oxygen fuel system. You do
not need a compression and exhaust stroke. The hydrogen-oxygen has about
550,000 btus of energy per gallon of water compare to gasoline which has
115,000 btus per gallon.
Then there is the problem of blow by when the hydrogen and oxygen is
ignited, it makes water and if your pistons rings has gaps it it, it will
diluted the oil in a oil sump.
You can get around this by using no-gap piston rings and a oil seperator. A
motorbike engine uses a oil tank out side the engine. Here you can collect
the water in a separated sump at the bottom of the engine.
A small turbine engine would work. Using a exhaust driven turbine charger
should work.
With this type of fuel system, you do not need any storage of hydrogen or
oxygen or delivery systems for it.
This is the drawback that everybody is talking about, but this eliminates
that step in the process.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: John G. Lussmyer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion List<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 7:43 AM
Subject: Anyone want to reply to a Fool Cell supporter?
Discussion on Slashdot:
horza has posted a comment in reply to your comment.
Re:Another Fool Cell
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=142856&cid=11974320<http://slashdot.org/
comments.pl?sid=142856&cid=11974320>
I just don't have my materials handy, and don't have the time right now.
--
John G. Lussmyer
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com<http://www.casadelgato.com/>
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Hello to All,
jerry dycus wrote:
>
> I've used manual steering on many heavy cars,
> trucks with no problem so really in all but very heavy
> EV's wouldn't go for PS, PB's.
> Another reason I stopped buying cars is you
> couldn't get even the smallest one without PS,PB
> Driving a non PS car, truck, EV is easy, you just
> need to move a little, 1 mph will do, and steering
> gets real easy without PS, it's costs and weight. Much
> better road feel too.
I find myself agreeing with Jerry on this, but would add that manual steering
works best
in vehicles with low curb weights, small contact patch type tires, and a well
designed
front suspension that make it all work well. The manual steering in my Datsun
1200s is the
best 'driver feedback point of view' steering of all the cars I've owned,
period. The
steering has the light feel of most power steering equipped cars, but with just
the right
amount of feel to your hands and arms to let you you, 'you' are directly
steering things.
Combined with the leather Momo steering wheel, it's a wonderful, engaged
feeling.
On the other hand, Red Beastie was a real upper body work-out with its PS
turned off! It
was next to impossible for my wife to handle, but she loved it when the PS was
in the
game.
The electric PS of my Insight is perhaps the best feeling PS in a newer car
that I've
driven. I remember the first test drive, where I proclaimed it felt very
'1200'. No, it's
not as good, but it does come close. The steering wheel in the Insight, is by
the way, is
made by Momo...cool, huh?
>From Damon:
> I know Otmar bought one of these, but I haven't heard of him converting his
> yet. Also John Wayland, as much as he talks about what a great EV they
> would make has yet to rip the gas sipping 3 cylinder out of his.
>
>
Oat's Insight transports him from Palo Alto to Portland and back on his visits
to the
Wayland EV laboratory. He's working on some mods to the s-t-r-e-t-c-h' VW bus,
though, and
once those are in place, there's probably going to be an electrified Insight as
a result.
The truth is, until lithium ion packs come way down in price and go up in
reliability, I
need the range capabilities that gas provides...there, I admitted it! Most of
the time, I
don't, and my EVs provide for my around town needs, like trips to the drag
strip :-)
Secondly, as I bought my brand spank'n new #904 Insight for $20K+, I think my
wife would
hang me by my thumbs if I tore apart a perfect Insight that yields up to 92 mpg!
The Insight is not as kind to the environment as a pure EV, but it's close and
still very
clean to operate, and, what gasoline it does use, it uses ultra efficiently. My
wife and I
love taking longer drives in this high tech hybrid as it effortlessly glides
along forever
on less than 11 gallons of gas. I fill mine up about every 3 months or so, but
credit some
of this to the use of my EVs, and, the fact that I drive my forklift service
truck to,
during, and from work duties.
On the other hand, if I get the chance to snag another Insight for a bargain
price, say
one with gas engine or IMA problems, that 3 banger would be outa there in a
heartbeat!
See Ya......John Wayland
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Fascinating history I didn't know.
Makes one realize that dumb as you may think GM has been, they've
actually been even dumber!
The EV1 could have been the Electrovair. I suspect the Corvair name
seemed forever tarnished as it had been made the scapegoat for all the
unsafe vehicles of its day.
But it could have created an entirely different GM narrative.
On Mar 18, 2005, at 1:23 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Ryan Stotts wrote:
What if instead we could use the "amazing" Electrovair II in our
favor somehow. The fact that they made that car way back in 1966!
http://www.cardatabase.net/static/Chevrolet/Electrovair_II.php
The irony goes even deeper. The Electrovair II was nearly a dead ringer
for the EV1 technologically. Same size, weight, top speed, and range.
Same high-voltage high-tech battery design. Same 100kw 3-phase AC
inverter, with oil-cooled AC induction motor and no transmission, etc.
Today, GM has left no history that they ever built the Electrovairs.
The
only proof that they ever existed is outside of GM, in the magazine
articles and SAE papers -- and in the one Electrovair II that somehow
got into the hands of the CORSA national Corvair Club. I got to see
this
car in their museum in Richmond VA in 1996. It is complete -- even the
silver-zinc batteries are still in it!
GM also built an hydrogen-cell fuelled minivan in 1967. It was also
highly touted as "the future". Ever hear of it? It has also disappeared
without a trace.
This is the fate I expect for the EV1 -- as well as for any future
fuel-cell vehicles that GM builds. They will milk them for all
publicity
and government money they can get. And then disappear...
I happen to *have* a 1965 Corvair. And, I am interested in doing an AC
EV as my next conversion. All the news about the EV1 has me thinking
that perhaps it should be an Electrovair III -- a new version of the
1966 Electrovair, built with salvaged EV1 components (if I can find
enough of them).
Good used Corvairs are pretty easy to come by. Is anyone else
interested?
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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The water maintance is bad enough. But the corrosion from those things!
Here's two pics from my sister's stock '96 Ford Explorer:
http://img48.exs.cx/img48/7389/badbat10ov.jpg
http://img48.exs.cx/img48/2375/badbat24bd.jpg
I hear you say "just wash them off". That's one thing when they are
under the hood. But how about when you have ~25 batteries in the
trunk of the car and where the back seat was with none of them under
the hood? Have you priced 4/0 cable and terminals? It adds up and
I'd prefer to just make the cable set once.
FYI, I've had the SAME Optima red top on my ice car since 1997. I've
never cleaned the terminals:
http://img48.exs.cx/img48/1817/optimared7ca.jpg
http://img48.exs.cx/img48/8549/batdate0ia.jpg
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Well, one of my AGM based Dynasty batteries did this sort of thing last
year. And a couple of my Hawkers were "fuzzy" from the first pack. I
think it's more of a problem in the battery than corrosion coming from
the pack being flooded.
For comparison my Elec-trak never had this problem.
Chris
Ryan Stotts wrote:
The water maintance is bad enough. But the corrosion from those things!
Here's two pics from my sister's stock '96 Ford Explorer:
http://img48.exs.cx/img48/7389/badbat10ov.jpg
http://img48.exs.cx/img48/2375/badbat24bd.jpg
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Hi Seth,
I asked this question on the list back a month or two ago, and the only
reply I got (which came to me off-list actually) was from Jukka Jarvinen at
Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies (www.fevt.com) who said that he might
be able to get me an isolated 48-60V charger that is CAN programmable (which
is what I was looking for). But when I followed up with him, it turned out
that he would only sell it to me as part of a complete kit with his
Thunder-Sky cells and integrated BMS that he has developed, the latter two
of which I didn't need since I'm using li-ions from another manufacturer.
You are right about Brusa; their chargers (which are CAN programmable) only
go down as low as 110VDC output, I think. From all the checking and asking
around that I did, there really doesn't seem to be any CAN programmable
charger out there in that low range of 48-60V.
Good luck, and let me know if you find anything (although I guess it's
probably too late for me anyway since we've found a way to do our test cycle
evaluation without the CAN programmability).
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 7:53 AM
Subject: wanted 48-54v(ish) programmable, 20A charger
Need to charge SAFT 100Ah cells and was looking for an isolated,
programmable 20A charger. Brusa doesn't go that low. Needs to have the
ability to program any profile I want (within reason).
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Seth
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>> Oh, and I was hoping to find a (relatively) inexpensive computer
>> power supply to temporarily replace my zorched DCP unit, but I
>> can't seem to find any that are the universal input type?
Mike wrote:
> For $69.00 and up Newegg.com
(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-010&depa=0
I would advise against trying to use a computer power supply like this.
They are just not built for the job.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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M.G. wrote:
>
> Would it be possible to connect more than one pc computer power supply
> in parallel to increase the current?
As a rule, no. They have no provisions for sharing the load equally.
They won't "pull together" as a team. One can "hog" all the load, sees
it as an overload, and shuts down. Now the remaining one sees an
overload, and shuts down, too.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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M.G. wrote:
> Would it be possible to connect an fet to a duty cycle oscillator to
> make a cheap dc-dc convertor? I would like to run a 48 volt power
> steering pump from a forklift with a 150 volt battery pack. So if I
> build a 555 timer with a 30% duty cycle, could I connect it to a
> large enough bank of fet's to run it safely? I think I would need
> about 30 amps continuous, 50 amp peak. Would this be more efficient
> than a Mr2 power steering setup?
Yes, you can do this. Properly done, it will also be more efficient.
It's not really a DC/DC converter, it's a PWM controller; same circuit
and function as the big PWM controller you use to run a series traction
motor. For only 30-50 amps, you won't need more than one MOSFET (though
of course you can use many smaller MOSFETs in parallel if for some
reason you already have a lot of them and don't mind the extra work to
mount and wire them).
But, the 555 circuit isn't going to give you enough drive for the
MOSFET, and it won't have protection against overcurrent, undervoltage,
overtemperature, or other protection features. A better approach would
be to use one of the many switching regulator control chips, which have
all these features. Then it becomes almost a "cookbook" circuit that
will work right off the data sheet.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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