EV Digest 4258
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: BLAM!
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(The burgeoning electric skateboardElectric Louie?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Unconventional Liquid Motor Cooling Ideas?
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: E-Meter Blues
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NEDRA Wicked Watts Special Guest
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Sell my S-10 EV or part it out?
by "Mason Convey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) article: Batscap Enhanced Car Batteries
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: BLAM!
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Nailed
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Wicked Watts Roll Call
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Chico EAA meeting Sat. 4-9-05
by "Chuck Alldrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) BB600 Manuals (Was BLAM!)
by "J Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Wicked Watts Roll Call
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: BLAM!
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re:Avcon charge port needed for my new ranger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Current limiting
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Dual pack configuration
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Meter or Charge?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Questions newcomers ask/ need to be asked
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Vas: webasto heater
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Vas: webasto heater
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) An Etek by any other name...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: BLAM!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Contactor Arc suppression.
by Justin Southam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) laser cutting for adaptor plates
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: laser cutting for adaptor plates
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Avcon charge port needed for my new ranger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Aero drag and VW fenders.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
bob,
glad to hear you are ok.
have you seen the pdf manuals for those military NiCd
cells. There is tons of good info about comissioning,
charging, maintanence etc. Also at the front of both
is some version of a warning of hazards about both
caustic electrolyte and explosion hazard. see below.
one of these days, us CTers need to get together and
figure out how to use them 600's in a useable pack. i
need to make ensclosures and interconnects.
~fortunat
WARNING
DANGEROUS CHEMICALS ARE USED IN
NICKEL-CADMIUM BATTERIES
The electrolyte used in nickel-cadmium batteries
contains potassium hydroxide (KOH), which is a caustic
chemical
agent. Serious and deep burns of body tissue will
result if the electrolyte comes in contact with the
eyes or any part
of the body. Use rubber gloves, rubber apron, and
protective goggles when handling the electrolyte. If
accidental.
contact with the electrolyte is made, use ONLY clean
water and immediately (seconds count) flush
contaminated
areas. Continue flushing with large quantities of
clean water. Seek medical attention without delay for
the eyes.
EXPLOSIVE GASES ARE GENERATED BY
NICKEL-CADMIUM BATTERIES
Hydrogen and oxygen gases are generated in explosive
proportion while the nickel-cadmium battery is being.
charged and discharged. Charge the nickel-cadmium
battery in a well-ventilated area to reduce
concentrations of explosive gases. Turn off the
battery charger before connecting or disconnecting the
nickel-cadmium battery to prevent arching. Do not use
matches or an open flame in the charging area. Arcs,
flames, or sparks in the charging area will ignite the
gases and cause an explosion. The battery box cover
must be removed and the battery case vent plug (if
used) must be open when charging.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken,
where is Electric Louie?
I was working on a control for his fluid cooled BLDC
motor but haven't heard from him.
I also owe one to Brian Hall.
Ok Brian, it's still in the works, production
schedules have taken all of my extra controls, but I
have not forgot!!
Rod
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This "article" almost looks like a press release
> from eXkate. It is
> certainly very biased in their favor.
>
> Having ridden the eXkate products quite a bit, I can
> say that there is
> no way it can pull two people up the steepest hills
> as the copy claims,
> unless those two people weigh under 150lbs combined
> and the hill isn't
> that steep.
>
> EXkate makes a good product at a premium price, but
> it is FAR from
> flawless as the article claims. I have heard a
> number of reports of
> difficulty with components on eXkate boards.
>
> While I'd currently have to say that eXkate is the
> clear leader in the
> powerboard market, their failure to evolve and
> innovate over the past
> three to four years makes them ripe for getting
> knocked off their
> throne.
>
> Electric Louie (the powerboard inventor and former
> owner) prototyped
> NiMH and Li-ion boards YEARS ago, yet these basic
> innovations are still
> not here and not even slated for imminent release
> this season.
>
> The article got it right when they said that this is
> going to be a very
> hot segment in the near future. We are product
> testing now, so look for
> reviews, upgrades and performance features on my
> site in the coming
> months.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX - 801-749-7807
> message - 866-872-8901
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you decide to go this way, there is a british
company called Aquamist (http://www.aquamist.co.uk/)
that sells little water injection kits for
turbo/supercharged cars.
The simplest systems are just a little water tank,
self contained pump and injector. The water spray is
used to (inter) cool charge air on the way into the
engine.
I have played with the pump and injector some and they
are pretty well made and sturdy. I am sure it would be
a very easy system to use (although i suspect you
could
make it on your own for less money).
what are the effects on the motor of constantly
sprayin water on it ? corrosion ?
~fortunat
--- Andre' Blanchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One more step in addition to forced air cooling
> would be a small pump to
> put a water mist into the air stream. Would greatly
> increase the cooling
> without the complexity of a full liquid system. I
> would not use it all the
> time, just turn it on when pushing the motor current
> out to the
> limits. Use the forced air alone for normal
> operations.
> ____________
> Andre' B.
>
> At 02:28 PM 4/4/2005, you wrote:
> >Ryan-
> >
> > > I guess what I'm looking for is something a
> little more
> > > "exotic" than simple forced air, or no cooling
> at all..
> > > With simple cooling I'll be limiting current to
> arround 100A.
> > > I'll have to be carefull not to overheat my
> motor(s) and
> > > so will bump up the current in small steps,
> kinna spooked.
> >
> >The ETEK's heat is generated in the armature.
> >The ETEK's case is slotted AS IS its armature
> windings, effectively.
> >Literally, you can look right through the case and
> the armature while it's
> >spinning and see right through the motor.
> >This lends itself DIRECTLY to the best and simplest
> way to get the heat out:
> >FORCED AIR cooling.
> >I don't know why you want to resist this simple
> approach for something
> >exotic.
> >I wouldn't.
> >I've been forced air cooling my ETEK now for nearly
> a year and a half, with
> >sustained armature currents of 150amps for several
> minutes and now problems.
> >I use a 7" Pabst 48v muffin fan, mounted to a
> home-made conical aluminum fan
> >shroud, directly slip-mounted over the ETEK's brush
> end with aluminum tape
> >sealing all the gaps. ALL air from the fan is
> forced thru the ETEK. MOST
> >of that air goes right by the individual spinning
> armature windings,
> >sweeping its heat away with the breeze before the
> heat has a chance to
> >convect to the ETEK case. What better way to get
> the heat out than this?
> >It's total KISS and it's ultra-low power.
> >
> >My ETEK case on my outboard lower unit does get
> warm when running in the
> >100-150amp range, but given the warmer temperature
> of the fan exhaust, I
> >can't conceive of a better, quieter way to cool
> this, short of doing what
> >Lee Hart suggested---encapsulating the armature,
> smoothing and rebalancing
> >it, then running it in liquid. With these brush
> motors, liquid cooling the
> >case doesn't save the armature, commutator or
> brushes from getting hot. By
> >axially FORCING the air thru the ETEK motor, past
> the commutator and
> >brushes, all these elements keep their cool.
> >
> >Finally, given the copper windings' resistance
> temperature-dependence,
> >substantial reductions in internal heat loss are
> achieved by keeping the
> >windings even a few degrees cooler.
> >
> >For example, say the ETEK's nominal total
> electrical resistance is 41mohm at
> >40degC. If the temperature is even allowed to
> increase to 50degC, this
> >resistance will increase something close to
> 42.6mohm (assuming most of the
> >resistance is in the copper windings (TC of
> 3.9x10^-3)). That's a 3.9%
> >INCREASE in resistance in resistance for only
> 10degC temp increase! At
> >100degC, the resistance would increase to 50.5mohm,
> i.e. a 23% increase in
> >winding resistance from 40degC.
> >This increased resistance leads directly to
> increased power loss, decreased
> >efficiency, and yet more increased heat...
> >
> >In summary, you can reduce the heat AND maintain
> the high efficiency of the
> >ETEK by directly keeping the windings cool.
> >
> >You want to be exotic, Ryan?
> >Run coolant thru a small radiator located before
> the air inlet to the ETEK
> >or fan.
> >Better still (and essential on an enclosed electric
> outboard like mine) is
> >to ensure that all exhaust air is kept segregated
> from the fan intake air.
> >
> >Best of luck in keeping your ETEK cool.
> >I strongly suggest air cooling---it doesn't take
> much really.
> >
> >Here's a pic of mine:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492d.jpg
> >
> >-Myles Twete
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
I disconnected the EMeter, and checked all the wiring again. Note: I am
using a pack 24V tap as suggested on page 50 of the operating guide. I made
sure the ground of the Emeter is the same ground as the 24V negative. The
measured values of the connections are as follows:
pin 1) Black (negative) from prescaler
pin 2) From battery side of shunt to negative - 0V
pin 3) From load side of shunt to negative - 0V
pin 4) From positive side of prescaler - 70V
pin 5) From pack 24v tap -25.4V
Shouldn't pin 1 have two connections? Black (negative) from prescaller and
negative for the meter power source, normally a DC/DC but in your case the
negative of the pack itself? Right now I don't see how your meter could
work, the meter power connections, 1 and 5 do not make a circuit. You
should be able to measure 24 volts from pin 1 to pin 5.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a map of the speedway, Bob Andersons shop is to the left of parking
lot 7 at the B entrance. Building 6925 Speedway Blvd. C112. He did say he
would host the show and tell after the race.
http://www.lvms.com/images/lvms_parking.jpg
Is it supposed to smoke like that ?
Richard Furniss
http://lasvegasev.com
Las Vegas, NV
President, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 5:52 PM
Subject: Re : NEDRA Wicked Watts Special Guest
> Hi David,
>
> I think its great Bob has offered to become part of the Wicked Watts
event.
>
> I'll need to find out more details pertaining to your questions.
>
> There is an industrial area, a lot of it track and racing related, off to
> the right as you enter the raceway. I imagine its in there but don't have
an
> exact location. Don't know the exact time Bob plans to give a tour of his
> facility. It may work out better after the race ends at 12:00 noon.
>
> Richard and Stan would have a better idea.
>
> I'll ask them and get back with you and the list. I also asked Kimberly at
> the track about racing the Camaro. I don't think it will be an issue, but
> the track likes to know what we plan to do so they aren't surprised. Also
> they like to know for PR purposes.
>
> This Wicked Watts race will be a great opportunity to see some pretty cool
> cars so there is still time for folks to make arrangements and come out.
>
> I'll provide more details as they become available.
>
> See ya,
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA Webmaster
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
> > David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds great, many thanks to Bob for hosting this. What time would be
> > best? After 12 after the races on Saturday? Is it easy to see the
> > "Shelby America" sign?
> >
> > --- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> We will have a special guest joining us for Wicked Watts this
> >> Saturday April
> >> 9.
> >>
> >> Bob Anderson, a Carroll Shelby prot�g�, who has been working on EV
> >> technology for many years will be racing with us at Wicked Watts.
> >> He has
> >> started buiding an Electric Cobra prototype base on Shelby's
> >> original "98"
> >> car. Bob was also a road racer for many years. Shelby America is
> >> located in
> >> the industrial section of the Las Vegas Motor Speedway, where Bob
> >> received
> >> help setting up an EV shop. He has constructed futuristic EV's that
> >> were
> >> used in the movies "Minority Report" and "AI" by Stephen Spielberg.
> >> In
> >> addition to racing at Wicked Watts 2005, he has offered to host an
> >> open
> >> house of his shop during the NEDRA EVent with lots of machine
> >> tools, EV
> >> parts, dyno tester, and EV's to drive.
> >>
> >> Chip Gribben
> >> NEDRA Webmaster
> >> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phoenix
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter Eckhoff
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 5:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sell my S-10 EV or part it out?
Where are you located?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mason Convey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 18:16 PM
Subject: Sell my S-10 EV or part it out?
> Looking for some general advice on how I can recover the largest amount
from
> my half-finished EV...
>
> Option 1: Sell it as a half-finished EV
> Option 2: Part it out
>
> I imagine it probably depends on just how close to completion it is, so
here
> are some details. Let me know if you have any thoughts on how I can get
the
> most from what I have. I just don't have the time or motivation to finish
> the truck.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> 1994 Chevy S-10 Pickup, fleet model, longbed, Silver Shield bed cover
> Only 5,600 miles on the truck
> Originally converted by US Electricar, but the drive was stripped out
>
> Aftermarket wiring harness sitting in a box
> 9" Advanced DC motor already mated to original Borg Warner T5 manual
> transmission
> Rear battery box built, but no mounting brackets yet.
> Middle battery box (behind cab) is modified US Electricar box. 75%
complete.
> Front battery box built, but no mounting brackets yet.
>
> Instrument panel complete with brand new speedometer and 4 other
EV-related
> gauges (voltmeter, etc)
> E-Meter with prescaler brand new and still in the box.
> Todd DC-DC converter also still in the box.
>
> Those are the major items I can think of. Would you recommend parting out
> the truck and EV components, or selling it as a half-finished project?
>
> Any ballpark idea what I could get for it as a whole or the parts
> individually?
>
> Thanks.
>
> mason
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An article about 'Bluecar', introduced at the Geneva car show, 130 km/h,
200 km range, and maybe available in Europe in 2008 if they can find a
manufacturing partner.
link:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/batscap_enhance_1.php
link to Batscap (lithium batteries):
http://www.batscap.com/en/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anybody have a link to the pdf file for the bb600?
Mike G.
I have batteries but no charger .
Fortunat Mueller wrote:
bob,
glad to hear you are ok.
have you seen the pdf manuals for those military NiCd
cells. There is tons of good info about comissioning,
charging, maintanence etc. Also at the front of both
is some version of a warning of hazards about both
caustic electrolyte and explosion hazard. see below.
one of these days, us CTers need to get together and
figure out how to use them 600's in a useable pack. i
need to make ensclosures and interconnects.
~fortunat
WARNING
DANGEROUS CHEMICALS ARE USED IN
NICKEL-CADMIUM BATTERIES
The electrolyte used in nickel-cadmium batteries
contains potassium hydroxide (KOH), which is a caustic
chemical
agent. Serious and deep burns of body tissue will
result if the electrolyte comes in contact with the
eyes or any part
of the body. Use rubber gloves, rubber apron, and
protective goggles when handling the electrolyte. If
accidental.
contact with the electrolyte is made, use ONLY clean
water and immediately (seconds count) flush
contaminated
areas. Continue flushing with large quantities of
clean water. Seek medical attention without delay for
the eyes.
EXPLOSIVE GASES ARE GENERATED BY
NICKEL-CADMIUM BATTERIES
Hydrogen and oxygen gases are generated in explosive
proportion while the nickel-cadmium battery is being.
charged and discharged. Charge the nickel-cadmium
battery in a well-ventilated area to reduce
concentrations of explosive gases. Turn off the
battery charger before connecting or disconnecting the
nickel-cadmium battery to prevent arching. Do not use
matches or an open flame in the charging area. Arcs,
flames, or sparks in the charging area will ignite the
gases and cause an explosion. The battery box cover
must be removed and the battery case vent plug (if
used) must be open when charging.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, it happened sooner than later. I got nailed by my Elec-Trak.
Shocked on the left hand, and quite painful.
Why you might ask? An Elec-trak is only 36 volts. And we all know that
36 volts is safe...
Well, I was checking the temp of one of the shunts in the tractor. It's
an exposed copper strip that was getting very warm under full load. So I
put my hand in the unit and felt the temp with my finger while bringing
the tractor up to speed. Then I cut the power to the motor.
*WHAM*
Felt like my hand was bitten. I pulled back; damn it hurt.
What appears to have happened was that when I stopped the motor my hand
was touching the shunt strip and one of the contactors. My guess is the
transition of motor from on to off created a big EMF voltage spike
either in the field or the armature, right thru CZ's hand.
Moral of the story? You can be bitten by 36 volts. I take precautions on
the Prizm's pack (never pull pack out without first subdividing it into
60 volt segments *BEFORE* it comes out, all paths to the pack isolated,
always use gloves, never reaching over the pack, etc) however this
serves that one can even get bitten on something as innocent as an E20.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking forward to watching and racing. Unfortunately I need to
go a funeral instead now.
If someone still needs a room, we just released ours at Super8.
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> This is a request for a show of hands of folks who may be attending
> this
> years Wicked Watts Race in Las Vegas. The race is this Saturday
> April 9.
>
> So far this is who I know who is coming
>
> 1) Brigham Young University and their ultracapacitor powered EV-1
>
> 2) Brian Hall and his drag bikes
>
> 3) Brent and Kent singleton with their electric jr dragster
>
> 4) Bill Kuel racing his Fiero
>
> 5) Richard Furniss racing his RX-7
>
> 6) David Dymaxion racing his gas Camaro against any EV Challengers
>
> Roderick, Rich, Otmar, John and the gang. Any of you all planning
> to come
> out?
>
> I know some folks who aren't racing are coming out to visit. If
> they could
> let me know I'd like to pass that information along to Richard and
> Stan.
>
> Thanks
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are invited to attend the Chico chapter of the Electric Auto Association
or "EAA".
Learn more about:
� Electric automobiles
� How to convert a car to electric
� Hybrid automobiles
� Fuel cell powered automobiles
� Compressed natural gas automobiles
Date: Saturday, April 9th from 9 am. The meeting is FREE, and all are
welcome.
This months meeting will be a "get your hands dirty" meeting.
We will be working on a 1975 CitiCar.
If all goes well, a new set of batteries will be installed and the
controller and electrical system will be tested.
PLEASE NOTE THE TIME CHANGE>>> 9 am.
Join us at Chuck Alldrin's home located at:
930 West 11th Ave
Chico, CA 95926
530-899-1835 "call for information"
Directions:
Go West on 11th Ave.. 1/4 mile past Holly on the North side. Look for the
black mailbox and Birch trees.
We need you at the meeting to help our new EAA chapter in Chico. If you are
not now affiliated with a local chapter, we would welcome you to transfer to
our chapter.
EV's of all types (i.e.: autos, scooters, skateboards) and Hybrids are
welcome.
For more information call:
Chuck Alldrin
530-899-1835
www.energy-alternatives.com
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***************************************************************
Chuck Alldrin Chico, CA. KN6JS Ham call
"If my people...will humble themselves and pray...I will heal their land."
II Chronicles 7:14
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim had sent me this
---
Try this....
http://www.tpub.com/content/batteries/TM-11-6140-203-14-4P/
it is a manual for the battery assembly that these cells are used in.
---
And these pdf's, I've put them on my site
http://sulltek.com/hardwired/nicads
MAX712 info from previous list emails
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/1666.pdf
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN3282.pdf
j.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Count me in also... just made a res at the Super 8 for Fri and Sat nights. I'm
excited... great to
be able to put faces to the names on the list and I know I'll learn a great
deal. Hope you all don't
mind my questions...
see ya later...
Thanks
Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben"
To: "Ev" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 6:02 PM
Subject: Wicked Watts Roll Call
> Hey everyone,
>
> This is a request for a show of hands of folks who may be attending this
> years Wicked Watts Race in Las Vegas. The race is this Saturday April 9.
>
> So far this is who I know who is coming
>
> 1) Brigham Young University and their ultracapacitor powered EV-1
>
> 2) Brian Hall and his drag bikes
>
> 3) Brent and Kent singleton with their electric jr dragster
>
> 4) Bill Kuel racing his Fiero
>
> 5) Richard Furniss racing his RX-7
>
> 6) David Dymaxion racing his gas Camaro against any EV Challengers
>
> Roderick, Rich, Otmar, John and the gang. Any of you all planning to come
> out?
>
> I know some folks who aren't racing are coming out to visit. If they could
> let me know I'd like to pass that information along to Richard and Stan.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA Webmaster
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim sent the manuals to us in an email, 2 manuals, both about 1.2 meg each. If
you want I can
forward them to you. let me know
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: BLAM!
> Does anybody have a link to the pdf file for the bb600?
> Mike G.
> I have batteries but no charger .
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< The 1998 ranger ev I bought at auction has no avcon charger for it maybe
someone on the list can come to the rescue.Also do the batteries come out the
bottom?Is there another ranger list? Dennis Berube shes
already growing on me >>
Do you mean the port *in* the truck, or the connector to the mains? Both can be
had from Avcon (parent company is Meltric.com) - if you order the connector
with the "Ford emulator", you can do without the "talking box" and just put
whatever NEMA plug you care to use. This means you don't need a stationary
installation either, and it's less than $200 for the connector with a nice,
long, heavy-guage wire.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason for the second pack is to extend the range. If you use a large
enough resistor to limit the current to 30 amps, the pack will have
negligible contribution to the range of the vehicle defeating the purpose of
the second pack.
To manage a secondary pack right, you need a switching power supply that can
provide a constant 30 amps from the secondary battery pack until either a)
the primary pack comes up to voltage indicating full charge or b) the
secondary battery pack falls to a low voltage indicating it is completely
expended, and then cut back the current to prevent either from occurring for
an extended period of time.
An analog connection cannot be tuned to provide a) an adequate current
transfer at low draws (primary pack is at a high voltage), b) any meaningful
current regulation at high draws (primary pack is at a low voltage), c)
thermal management to avoid burning up and d) a small footprint.
A PFC-30 can be tuned to do this task exactly as you conceive. If you want
to use a computer to remote control it, that can be done as well. Talk to
Rich about what it would take to meet your need.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Current limiting
> Christopher Zach wrote:
> > Question: Say I wanted to have a particular battery string in a
> > series string never put more that 30 amps into the equasion, no
> > matter what the draw. What would be the best and/or simplest way
> > to do this?
>
> If I understand, you want to have two battery packs. One "primary" pack
> for high current, and a small "secondary" pack that is limited to 30
> amps max. Correct?
>
> If the two packs are the same voltage (both 300v), then the simplest way
> is a resistor (or something equivalent to a resistor) in series with the
> secondary pack. Battery internal resistance is very low, so even a small
> voltage drop in series with the secondary pack will cause a large
> reduction in the current it supplies. I don't even think the power lost
> in a resistor will be bad enough to worry about (like a 1v drop out of
> 300v).
> --
> If you would not be forgotten
> When your body's dead and rotten
> Then write of great deeds worth the reading
> Or do the great deeds worth repeating
> -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1. No. The positives need to go through separate contactors. I have a switch
on each contactor to allow separate discharging.
2. Yes. You need a charging contactor to tie the strings together for
charging. I have a switch on each contactor to allow separate charging.
3. No. You need one emeter for each string if you want to read them
separately.
I have a Fiesta set up for two parallel strings. I have only one emeter.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:07 AM
Subject: Dual pack configuration
> I have some basic questions about how you set up two parallel packs.
>
> Scenario: 2 240 volt packs paralleled to keep total voltage lower and
double the Ah.
> (versus 1 480volt pack with half the Ah.) Same number of cells in both
cases, just playing with
> the way they are hooked up.
>
> 1. Do I just connect the leads (+,-) from the 2 packs to the same point on
the controller? Both
> posiitves on one side and both negatives on the other side.
>
> 2. Do I charge both packs together as if they were one pack? (one charger)
>
> 3. Could I use a Link 20 EMeter to monitor both packs individually?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You probably have a voltmeter being passed off as the state of charge meter.
You can determine if it is a meter or a battery problem by measuring the
pack voltage at end of charge and then 24 hours later.
If the meter reads high at the end of charge and then 40% 24 hours later,
the meter is probably just a voltmeter.
If the voltage measurement is significantly less than 13 volts per 12 volt
battery at 24 hours after charge, then the battery is probably showing its
age.
If you equalize at 3% of the battery capacity for 8 hours, then the voltage
should stay higher and indicate more state of charge when full.
If the voltage is over 78 volts and the meter reads less than 90%, then the
meter is out of calibration.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Marcus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: Meter or Charge?
> First, thanks to everyone on the list and of course
> those of you that helped me with specific questions.
> With your help my little 72v escort is up and running
> and there is one more person on the road with an ev
> grin. No NEDRA, but it'll get me to work every day.
>
> MY QUESTION: I put in 12 new T-145s. Voltage is good.
> Speed is as expected given the car's parameters (it
> ultimately reaches 55mph). However, the charge
> indicator never exceeds 40% even when the charger
> completes and indicates that the batteries are fully
> charged. How can I check if it is the charge or the
> meter (without just driving until I run out of juice)?
> (note: the meter dips and jumps back when I punch the
> "gas")
>
> thanks!
> Richard
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speed costs money.
How much do you want to spend?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: Questions newcomers ask/ need to be asked
> > How much heater/defroster is required?
> -snip-
> >
> > What is your accessory load?
> -snip-
> >
> > How many safety interlocks are desired/required?
> -snip-
> >
> > How fast do you want/need to recharge?
> >
>
> I wonder how many newbies will know/understand these questions?
> I suspect you will end up getting answeres like these (in order):
>
> about 1/2 way
> 10 lbs?
> the car already has locks
> 10 minutes
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> L�hett�j�: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> P�iv�: 04.04.2005 23:39
> Vastaanottaja: [email protected]
> Otsikko: webasto heater
>
> By any chance, is anyone using a Webasto BW50 fuel fired heater?
> There is one in my new EV and I can't get it to work. There are 4
> wires, two power and two signal..
>
Hello Evan!
Nice to hear of your purchase! I have a similar car. Well, not a Citroen,
Peugeot Partner instead, but they are nearly identical. I've had mine for appr.
two months (bought it second-hand) and I've made some 2000 km by now. I am very
satisfied but since it's my first electric car I don't have much comparison
save some short rides with Elcat.
I had the same problem with the Webasto, it did not work. A good old hard reset
solved the problem for me. I took out the power cords (the thicker ones) for 10
secs and put them back and Webasto started immediately when I then pushed the
heater button. I never got to know what had caused the trouble but I have
noticed that if it runs out of gas, it can enter a state where it does not
start properly.
Seppo
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seppo!
It seems that there are a few new owners of these vans recently,
across Europe. There are two or three others I know in UK, on
electricvehiclesuk list on yahoo. I hope we can share technical info
to keep the cars running well - and I hope to be able to use EOBD or
similar terminal to trigger the maintenance charge for watering etc.
I already tried removing the plug from the heater, but maybe not for
long enough - I will try again. My heater was out of gas so it could
be this. I also found the workshop manual for a similar model
(thermotop C).
Glad to hear that you are happy with your van, I cannot drive mine on
the road until friday, it needs the MoT test.
Kiitos!
Evan
On Apr 5, 2005 8:02 AM, Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > L�hett�j�: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > P�iv�: 04.04.2005 23:39
> > Vastaanottaja: [email protected]
> > Otsikko: webasto heater
> >
> > By any chance, is anyone using a Webasto BW50 fuel fired heater?
> > There is one in my new EV and I can't get it to work. There are 4
> > wires, two power and two signal..
> >
>
> Hello Evan!
> Nice to hear of your purchase! I have a similar car. Well, not a Citroen,
> Peugeot Partner instead, but they are nearly identical. I've had mine for
> appr. two months (bought it second-hand) and I've made some 2000 km by now. I
> am very satisfied but since it's my first electric car I don't have much
> comparison save some short rides with Elcat.
>
> I had the same problem with the Webasto, it did not work. A good old hard
> reset solved the problem for me. I took out the power cords (the thicker
> ones) for 10 secs and put them back and Webasto started immediately when I
> then pushed the heater button. I never got to know what had caused the
> trouble but I have noticed that if it runs out of gas, it can enter a state
> where it does not start properly.
>
> Seppo
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Such a deal! Hurry and take a look:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=66958&item=7506104408
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, Bob, glad to hear you're alright! I've actually stopped reading my
EV list since I'm in Denmark for the term, but I couldn't resist the
temptation of a message from Bob Rice entitled BLAM sitting in my inbox.
You've gotta stop blowing up so many batteries :) Were I a senior member
of this list, I'd say you've earned yourself a title alongside Plasma Boy
and Madman, but alas, I'm still (mostly) a newbie.
Thanks for the story and warning, and once again, I'm glad to hear you
weren't hurt.
-Ben
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> I got a surprise that I would like to share with ya'all. I was
> charging
> a Ni cad block of 5 cells@ 6 volts, no, not the nice 600's from the
> Humphrey
> Haul, but a larger set of cells that I got from Tony Acrizzi, Alcads. I
> had
> let them charge awile and, took the lead off, from the charger. Hit one of
> the posts, got a spark, and BLAM!!! DAMN it was LOUD, WORSE than blowing
> up
> a led acid! With those the only one cell blows, but THIS one the whole
> damn
> pack blew! ALL THE GODAMN cells! Don't try this at home! I had NO idea
> that
> the nicads were that explosive! They must gas, too? Better than Hydrogen,
> for sure! I was lucky! I cought a jacket, it was cold that day, of battery
> schrapnel, in the midships. Had it been in the face it sure woulda been a
> trip to the ER! Sprayed with Potassium? WhatEVer they use as juice, it
> wasn't as bad as Lead acid jizz. A shower took care of that, and the
> clothes
> wern't eaten up, like a Lead Acid spill.
>
> OK. battery garues? Are these more of a sparking shorting hazard than
> Lead Acids? WHAT part of "Safety First" did I miss? Yeah, never spark
> around
> juicy batteries?Is, I would think is a hazard that we should be warning
> and
> thinking about. What with all those cute 600's out there, they COULD be a
> BOMB in the belly of an EV!! Like if they ALL join in the fun and blow!
> Could be embarrassing in traffic! Or at show an' tell.
>
> One thought, with the o topsy, the plates filled only about half of the
> battery boxes! You, or they coulda made the plates taller for more power
> in
> the same footprint? Probably how T 145's are made from T 105's by a taller
> box and higher plates? Maybe the room in there was needed for more
> electrolyte? Or more explosive gas<G>!
>
> One blast's worth
>
> Bob
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All, I've been reading over old posts regarding contactors opening under
load and have some questions.
If arcing caused by ionization is the only problem on opening, what happens
if i replace the air around the contacts of my Albright SW200 with a
liquid. I know the Kilovac contactors use pressurized Nitrogen or Hydrogen
to fill the void around the contacts.
I'm thinking water probably isn't ideal, how about transformer
oil(viscosity??), or motor oil(ie Mobil 1, synthetic, low viscosity, high
temperature) or ... any other suggestions? The contacts would open and
close more slowly but would that matter?
Would the liquid increase the peak (30-60 second) current rating by drawing
heat out of the contactor? Wouldn't it increase the max break voltage too?
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Justin
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.2 - Release Date: 05-04-05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all
A week or so ago there was a thread running hot about adaptor plates, and
having plate centers machined, then adding a transmission-specific outer part.
I was in at our local laser cutters this morning http://www.tas-fab.com,
doing a repair for them on a brake press. I asked about aluminium plate
cutting, they can do up to 8mm thick, with a precision of better than +/-
0.1mm.
Rather than water jet cutting then putting it onto a CNC for finishing, for
much the same money as the water jet, get it laser cut. Straight off the
laser and onto the transmission, no need to put it onto a CNC. Of course,
the edges are *very* square, sharp enough to cut you if not careful, so a
rub around with a file would be in order.
Of course, local to me is not local to most listees, but there should be
someone with a laser cutter not too far away from most people.
Regards
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All the laser cut parts I ever made (I used to run one) did not have
square edges, it is a function of focusing a 20-30mm collimated beam
into a 0.2mm spot, so you get a taper created by the focusing of the
last curved mirror. And I am not sure +/-.1mm is enough, although that
is probably the guaranteed figure, and it will likely come out better
than that, but I suspect that you would want to do a secondary clean up
on at least the holes. In my opinion.
Maybe lasers have gotten much better, though, it has been 10 years
since I ran one.
Seth
On Apr 5, 2005, at 8:06 AM, James Massey wrote:
Hi all
A week or so ago there was a thread running hot about adaptor plates,
and having plate centers machined, then adding a transmission-specific
outer part.
I was in at our local laser cutters this morning
http://www.tas-fab.com, doing a repair for them on a brake press. I
asked about aluminium plate cutting, they can do up to 8mm thick, with
a precision of better than +/- 0.1mm.
Rather than water jet cutting then putting it onto a CNC for
finishing, for much the same money as the water jet, get it laser cut.
Straight off the laser and onto the transmission, no need to put it
onto a CNC. Of course, the edges are *very* square, sharp enough to
cut you if not careful, so a rub around with a file would be in order.
Of course, local to me is not local to most listees, but there should
be someone with a laser cutter not too far away from most people.
Regards
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is already a receptal on the car which has 3 large wires 220 an grd.
Then there are 3 other small wires.Does the ford emulator talk to these small
wires?Can any ford dealer get these?Are there service manuals avaible?
Dennis
Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could a gain (lower) in CD be achieved by using seperated or no fenders on
the front wheels of a VW?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
