EV Digest 4257
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(plug-in gas-electric vehicle the darlings of hawks & enviros)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Hybrid-Car Tinkerers Scoff at No-Plug-In Rule)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: AC/DC motor questions
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(Toshiba Puts Nano-Material into Fast-Charging li-ion Battery)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Portable RT-LAB Pentium-M Hybrid-Vehicle Real-Time Simulator)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Front wheel drive question
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(PHEWS?, Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Front wheel drive question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Front wheel drive question
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re : NEDRA Wicked Watts Special Guest
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Sell my S-10 EV or part it out?
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Wicked Watts Roll Call
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) NEDRA Wicked Watts Places to Stay
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Motor Pre-Cooling?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(The burgeoning electric skateboard and longboard market)-long
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: S-10 conversion for sale, "needs batteries"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Wicked Watts Roll Call
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Super deal on Lion Cells $450/KWH
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(plug-in gas-electric vehicle the darlings of hawks & enviros)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_15/b3928103.htm
APRIL 11, 2005 ENVIRONMENT
Giving Hybrids A Real Jolt
A plug-in gas-electric vehicle may be key in saving fuel and
cutting pollution
Is there a car that can cut America's oil imports to a trickle,
dramatically reduce pollution, and do it all with currently
available technology? Greg Hanssen thinks so. His company has
already built one such car -- a converted Toyota Prius that gets
100 to 180 mpg in a typical commute. Andrew A. Frank thinks so,
too. The University of California at Davis professor has
constructed a handful of such vehicles. His latest: a converted
325-horsepower Ford Explorer that goes 50 miles using no gas at
all, then gets 30 mpg. "It goes like a rocket," he says.
These vehicles are quickly becoming the darlings of strange
bedfellows: both conservative hawks and environmentalists, who
see such fuel efficiency as key to ensuring national security and
fighting climate change. Reducing dependence on the turbulent
Middle East "is a war issue," says former CIA Chief R. James
Woolsey, who calls the cars' potential "phenomenal."
What's the secret? It's as simple as adding more batteries and a
plug to hybrids such as the Prius. That way, the batteries can be
charged up at any electrical outlet -- letting this so-called
plug-in hybrid travel 20 to 60 miles under electric power alone.
Since most Americans drive fewer than 30 miles a day, such a car
could go months without visiting the filling station. "The only
time you would have to gas up is when you go out of town," says
Felix Kramer, who founded the nonprofit California Cars
Initiative to promote plug-ins. Run the internal combustion
engine on a blend of gasoline and biofuels like ethanol, and it
would use almost no oil products at all. "That changes the
world," says Frank J. Gaffney Jr., president of the Center for
Security Policy.
"TRIVIAL MATTER"
Professor Frank, 72, first began thinking about a plug-in hybrid
electric vehicle (PHEV) years ago. "But now all the pieces are
here," he says. Toyota Motor Corp. (TM ) has solved the big
engineering problems with the Prius, so "it's a trivial matter to
make a plug-in," says Joseph J. Romm, a former Energy Dept
official. Greg Hanssen and his colleagues at EnergyCS, for
example, replaced the Prius' existing 1.3-kilowatt-hour nickel
metal hydride battery with an advanced 9-kWh lithium ion battery
pack. They hope to offer a conversion kit to Prius owners. The
weight penalty? About 170 pounds.
Car owners might not want to try this at home. Such a conversion
will probably void Toyota's warranty. But big companies are
building their own vehicles. In a project sponsored by the
Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), several utilities,
government agencies, and DaimlerChrysler (DCX ), the carmaker is
building a fleet of up to 40 PHEV delivery vans.
Four will be coming to U.S. cities for tests starting in June.
Research at EPRI predicts that the plug-in vehicles, based on
DaimlerChrysler's popular Sprinter van, will get a gas mileage
boost of at least 50% over conventional vans.
EPRI Program Manager Robert Graham is convinced that Toyota
already has prototype plug-ins running. Toyota says no. "We keep
looking at the concept, and at some point it might be feasible,
but it isn't there yet," says David Hermance, Toyota's executive
engineer for environmental engineering. For its part,
DaimlerChrysler sees its van project "as a great opportunity to
develop the vehicles we foresee in the future," says technology
spokesman Nick Cappa. The company's first hybrid offerings will
be conventional, but plug-ins might eventually be an option, he
says.
Auto makers' reluctance to plunge in quickly frustrates
evangelists like Professor Frank. "If it is such a damn good
idea, why are the car companies not adopting plug-ins?" he asks.
"The simple answer is that they don't want to change what they
are making." But it's also not clear how much more people will
pay for the cars. Hybrids are estimated to cost $2,000 to $5,000
more than conventional cars to make, and the larger batteries for
plug-ins would add several thousands dollars more.
"UNCERTAINTY"
Proponents predict costs will drop with high-volume production.
But making the investment to build hundreds of thousands of PHEVs
is a giant risk, especially since there are competing approaches
to higher fuel efficiency, such as advanced diesels or upgraded
gasoline or hydrogen engines. Plus, no one knows if gas prices
will rise enough to spur demand for high mileage cars. "All these
technologies are great. But there is a tremendous amount of
uncertainty," says David E. Cole, chairman of the Center for
Automotive Research.
That's why some plug-in advocates are striving to create a market
for auto makers. On Mar. 3, the city of Austin, Tex., passed a
resolution calling for rebates for plug-in purchases and asking
local businesses and governments to buy the vehicles. "We can
reduce costs [of driving] to consumers, improve the air quality,
and increase revenues to the city," says Roger Duncan, deputy
general manager of city-owned Austin Energy.
Ordinary hybrids such as the Prius are already popular. Moving to
plug-ins is the next logical step -- and the idea is getting
high-level endorsements. Last December, the bipartisan National
Commission on Energy Policy tapped plug-ins as a key part of its
energy strategy. The Set America Free coalition, a group of
conservatives and enviros, is pushing for $2 billion in
incentives, pointing out that "if all cars on the road are
hybrids and half are plug-in hybrid vehicles, U.S. oil imports
would drop by 8 million barrels per day." Americans will be
"gassing up" their cars with electrons, predicts Romm: "I would
bet the mortgage on it." But not quite the whole house.
By John Carey in Washington
Copyright 2005, by The McGraw-Hill Companies Inc. All rights
reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Hybrid-Car Tinkerers Scoff at No-Plug-In Rule)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.goupstate.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050402/ZNYT05/504020374/1051/news01
Posted on April 02, 2005
Hybrid-Car Tinkerers Scoff at No-Plug-In Rule
By DANNY HAKIM New York Times
DETROIT, April 1 - Ron Gremban and Felix Kramer have modified a
Toyota Prius so it can be plugged into a wall outlet.
This does not make Toyota happy. The company has spent millions
of dollars persuading people that hybrid electric cars like the
Prius never need to be plugged in and work just like normal cars.
So has Honda, which even ran a commercial that showed a guy
wandering around his Civic hybrid fruitlessly searching for a
plug.
But the idea of making hybrid cars that have the option of being
plugged in is supported by a diverse group of interests, from
neoconservatives who support greater fuel efficiency to utilities
salivating at the chance to supplant oil with electricity. If you
were able to plug a hybrid in overnight, you could potentially
use a lot less gas by cruising for long stretches on battery
power only. But unlike purely electric cars, which take hours to
charge and need frequent recharging, you would not have to plug
in if you did not want to.
"I've gotten anywhere from 65 to over 100 miles per gallon," said
Mr. Gremban, an engineer at CalCars, a small nonprofit group
based in Palo Alto, Calif. He gets 40 to 45 miles per gallon
driving his normal Prius. And EnergyCS, a small company that has
collaborated with CalCars, has modified another Prius with more
sophisticated batteries; they claim their Prius gets up to 180
m.p.g. and can travel more than 30 miles on battery power.
"If you cover people's daily commute, maybe they'll go to the gas
station once a month," said Mr. Kramer, the founder of CalCars.
"That's the whole idea."
Conventional hybrid electric cars already save gas. But if one
looks at growth projections for oil consumption, hybrids will
slow the growth rate of oil imports only marginally, at best,
with the amount depending on how many hybrids are sold. To
actually stop the growth of oil imports and potentially even
reduce consumption, automakers have focused on developing cars
powered by hydrogen fuel cells.
But fuel cells would require a complete reinvention of the
automobile, not to mention the nation's gas stations, and the
technology to put them on the road is still a long way from
fruition. Advocates of plug-in hybrids say the technology for
these vehicles is available now to the point that people are
building them in garages.
"All of the relevant technology is at hand," said Frank Gaffney,
founder of the Center for Security Policy and an assistant
defense secretary in the Reagan administration. His group was
among a coalition of right-leaning organizations that released an
energy plan this year promoting plug-ins as one way to increase
fuel efficiency in light of the instability of the Middle East.
"If you're thinking about this as an environmental issue first
and foremost, you're missing the point," Mr. Gaffney said.
Curbing dependence on foreign oil, he added, "is a national
security emergency."
Toyota, however, says the plug-in is not ready for prime time.
"They say this is the next great thing, but it just isn't," said
David Hermance, an executive engineer at Toyota. "The electric
utilities really want to sell electricity and they want to sell
it to the transportation sector because that expands their
market. They have an agenda."
But the plug-in hybrid is not just coming out of the garages of
enthusiasts in California. DaimlerChrysler has developed several
dozen plug-in hybrid vans in cooperation with the Electric Power
Research Institute, a group financed by more than 300 utilities,
including the New York Power Authority and Southern California
Edison. Testing of the vans will start this year, and one will be
used by The New York Times on a newspaper delivery route in
Manhattan. Several small companies are also developing or have
developed plug-in hybrid prototypes.
"We think it's the only way to rekindle interest in electric
transportation," said Robert Graham, who manages research into
electric vehicles for the Research Institute. "There are no
technology hurdles at all. It's simply a matter of getting the
vehicle built out on the street and getting people to recognize
its value."
For power companies, the notion of people plugging in cars
overnight represents not only a new way to make money, but the
vehicles would also draw power mostly during off hours which
would improve efficiency, because power plants cannot simply shut
down at night as demand diminishes.
As it stands, though, modifying a hybrid like the Prius to enable
it to plug in would add perhaps $2,000 to $3,000 to the cost of a
car that is already roughly $3,000 more expensive than
conventional gas cars. Advocates say the costs would be much
lower if such cars were mass-produced by a major automaker.
But Nick Cappa, a spokesman for DaimlerChrysler, was cautious,
calling the technology one of many the company was exploring.
Among its current drawbacks is that the added batteries take up
space and make the company's Sprinter van several hundred pounds
heavier.
"This is part of a small program investigating these
technologies," Mr. Cappa said.
And Mr. Hermance of Toyota said that batteries today were not
durable enough to handle the wide range of charging up and
charging down that a plug-in hybrid would need, calling that the
most damaging thing you can do to a battery.
Edward Furia, the chief executive of AFS Trinity Power, a
privately held company in Bellevue, Wash., that develops
mechanical batteries called flywheels, agreed with Mr. Hermance,
but said that a secondary energy storage technology like a
flywheel could solve the problem.
"If you've got a flywheel with your chemical battery, you can
draw down the chemical battery, but when it's time to do a heavy
lift, to accelerate or absorb energy, the flywheel is doing the
acceleration or the absorption, not the chemical battery," said
Mr. Furia, whose company is developing its own plug-in hybrid
that it says will get several hundred miles per gallon.
While many environmentalists support the technology, some say in
terms of emissions, electric cars would only be as good as the
power plants that produce electricity.
"The concern on plug-in hybrids is that we not substitute
addiction to one polluting fuel for addiction to a more polluting
fuel," said Dan Becker, the head of the Sierra Club's global
warming and energy program. "Coal is more polluting than
gasoline, and nearly 60 percent of U.S. electricity is generated
by burning coal."
Roger Duncan, a deputy general manager of Austin Energy, a
utility owned by the City of Austin, Tex., said that "it's hard
to say what impact it will have on the nation as a whole," but
that in regions that use cleaner-than-average power sources, like
Austin or California, it would provide a clear emissions benefit.
Mr. Duncan even imagines a day when drivers could be paid to
return energy to the grid during times of excessive demand.
Plug-in hybrid prototypes have been around for several years, but
the idea of modifying a Prius stemmed from the curiosity of some
Prius owners in the United States, Mr. Kramer said. They were
aroused by a mysterious unmarked button on their Prius and
discovered that in Priuses sold in Europe and Japan, the button
allows the car to drive for a mile in electric-only mode. Mr.
Hermance said the feature was disabled in Priuses sold in the
United States because of complications it would have created in
emissions-testing rules.
Mr. Kramer said "a bunch of engineers reverse-engineered it in
the United States and figured out how to hack it."
But they soon wanted to travel on batteries for more than a mile
and began to collaborate through CalCars on adding batteries to
the Prius that would allow for longer pure electric travel. With
the help of dozens of volunteer engineers collaborating online,
the group retrofitted a Prius in Mr. Gremban's garage to travel
about 10 miles on nothing but battery power.
Mr. Duncan said the plug-in hybrid was "very realistic, because
it's not that big a leap in technology."
"Look what Felix has done with Prius off the street," he added.
"This isn't rocket science." Don't get the Herald-Journal
delivered to your home? Click here for a special offer
All material �2005 Spartanburg Herald-Journal Mailing address:
P.O. Box 1657, Spartanburg, S.C., 29304-1657 The Spartanburg
Herald-Journal is a member of the New York Times Regional
Newspaper Group
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Yahoo! Messenger
Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> What's the situation with the AC motors? Say for
> example you had one
> wired up with a "Controller bypass". Is it going to
> take all the amps
> you can give it, or will it only take so much?
I think the name for a controller bypass on an AC
motor would "emergency brake". useful in emergencies
only.
Gadget
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Toshiba Puts Nano-Material into Fast-Charging li-ion Battery)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/hardware/41889.html
Toshiba Puts Nano-Material into Fast-Charging Battery
By Susan B. Shor TechNewsWorld 03/30/05 1:30 PM PT
By using nano-material, Toshiba has increased the surface area of
the lithium and widened the bottleneck, allowing the particles to
pass through the liquid, and thus recharge the battery, more
quickly.
Now available for small to midsize businesses and departments.
The Oracle Database Software Kit provides everything you need to
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A new lithium-ion battery Latest News about Batteries from
Toshiba Latest News about Toshiba may hold promise for the future
of electric vehicles. The electronics giant yesterday unveiled a
battery that takes only a minute to recharge to 80 percent of its
full strength, making it by far the fastest recharging
lithium-ion battery available.
The battery fully charges in less than 10 minutes. The prototype
uses nano-materials technology to allow for faster charging
without the inherent problems of charging with larger lithium
particles.
Traffic Jam
If a lithium-ion battery is charged too quickly, it creates a
bottleneck in which the lithium moving through electrolyte liquid
from the negative electrode to the positive backs up on the
surface of the liquid. Under slower charging, the lithium "hides"
in void space and does not cause a problem.
"Liquid electrolyte is unstable in the presence of metallic
lithium and will cause all sorts of problems. That is why it is
imperative to observe the slow-charging rate rule with
lithium-ion batteries," Donald Sadoway, MIT professor of
materials chemistry and an electrochemistry researcher, explained
to TechNewsWorld. Sadoway said the consequences could be as
severe as the battery exploding.
By using nano-material, Toshiba has increased the surface area of
the lithium and widened the bottleneck, allowing the particles to
pass through the liquid and, thus, recharge the battery, more
quickly.
"In the long run, if this is truly scalable, this could mean the
difference between an electric vehicle future or not," Sadoway
said. On the Market in '06
Toshiba said the battery, which is 3.8 mm thick, 62 mm high and
35 mm deep, would be available in 2006 for industrial and
automotive uses, such as storing the energy produced by trains
and cars -- which is now wasted.
Toshiba is also touting the prototype's long life. It said it
tested a new battery by discharging and fully recharging 1,000
times at 77 degrees and found that it lost only 1 percent of its
capacity.
The battery also held its capacity well in temperature extremes.
Toshiba said its tests found that it gives out 80 percent of its
power capacity at minus 40 degrees and 95 percent when tested at
temperatures as high as 113 degrees after 1,000 charge and
discharge cycles.
Copyright � 1998-2005 ECT News Network, Inc. All rights
reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Portable RT-LAB Pentium-M Hybrid-Vehicle Real-Time
Simulator)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-02-2005/0003299476&EDATE=
Portable RT-LAB Pentium-M Based Hybrid-Vehicle Electrical Real-Time
Simulator
(PRNewsFoto) MONTREAL CAN 04/02/2005 http://www.opal-rt.com
MONACO, April 2 /PRNewswire/ -- Opal-RT Technologies Inc.
(http://www.opal-rt.com ), the world leader in distributed
real-time simulation on PC-based platforms, today announced a new
range of small but powerful Pentium-M based RT-LAB hybrid
electrical power train real-time simulators. These compact
simulators can simulate power electronic motor drives, fuel cells
and conventional combustion engines to test electronic control
units with sub-microsecond precision. The simulator is fully
integrated with MATLAB, Simulink and Real Time Workshop and can
execute several third-party models in real-time.
The Pentium-M new instruction set and large cache memory enables
the simulation of power electronic systems to be executed within
microseconds to achieve the required precision. For a typical
electrical system simulation application, a low-cost 1.6 GHz
Pentium-M achieves the same effective performance as the powerful
Pentium 4 Xeon 3.2 GHz processor. However, the Pentium-M
consumes less than 20 watts and is therefore available in cost
efficient and compact formats.
"The new mobile processor technologies offered by Intel and AMD
will enable the development of a new generation of portable
dynamic instruments optimized for electronic control testing,"
said Jean Belanger, Chief Technology Officer of Opal-RT
Technologies Inc. "These dynamic instruments will combine
traditional data logger, signal generators and real-time
simulators in compact and robust packages," he added.
Using Opal-RT Technologies' OP5000 series I/O interface and
signal conditioning modules, the system can simulate motor
drives. The motor drive controller tester simulates the detailed
IGBT (or GTO, or other power semiconductor switches) switching
and harmonics on motor current and voltages with a sampling
frequency of 100 kHz (10 microseconds sampling time). The
electronic controller unit (ECU) is interfaced with the
simulators through fast and high-precision I/O systems. The ECU
and the simulator are then connected in closed-loop such that the
ECU reacts as if it would be connected to the real motor drive.
This technique, hardware-in-the-loop testing, is used to test
control unit performance under several normal and abnormal
operating conditions before connecting the ECU to the real motor
drive.
The Motor Drive Controller Tester can accommodate systems with a
PWM carrier frequency up to 10 kHz as used in modern hybrid
vehicles power train and simulate IGBT firing delays and dead
time effects with a resolution as low as 500 nanoseconds. Such
precision is achieved by using unique simulation techniques
including real-time interpolation and FPGA I/O boards to capture
firing pulses and generate encoder pulses with 10 nanoseconds
resolution.
The RT-LAB hybrid electrical power-train real-time simulator uses
Pentium- M processors as follows:
* The first processor simulates the motor drive
* The second processor is used for data logging and for the
simulation of models with slower dynamic. FireWire,
SignalWire or InfiniBand achieves real-time data communication
between Pentium-M modules.
* Several Pentium-M simulators can also be interconnected
together and with powerful shared-memory simulation server if
needed to simulate more complex systems for integration
testing.
* Each compact simulator module can also develop control
algorithms and implement rapid control prototypes for
laboratory and in-vehicle testing.
"Toyota has been using the RT-LAB Electric Drive Simulator for
the last 12 months and it has proven to be an effective tool for
the testing and optimization of our power electronic
controllers," said Mr. Tetsuhiro Ishikawa, Group Manager of
Hybrid System Planning & Administration Department, Hybrid
Vehicle System Engineering Division Power Train Development Group
of Toyota Motor Corporation. "The new Pentium-M systems will add
flexibility and save precious laboratory space," added Ishikawa.
About Opal-RT Technologies, Inc.
Opal-RT provides software, hardware, and related solutions for
real-time simulation applications, with the aim of enabling
real-time parallel processing through flexible and affordable
technologies.
The company offers a full range of engineering simulation
products -- from enabling technologies to turnkey engineering
simulators -- and consulting services that include systems
integration, software development, simulation and modeling,
problem-solving, and training. Opal-RT's core expertise is in
distributed hard-real-time simulation, with experienced engineers
designing real-time simulators for automotive, electrical power,
aerospace, robotics, and other industries where fidelity and
fault tolerance requirements push rapid prototyping and
hardware-in-the-loop testing to their limits. Opal-RT's unique
approach integrates parallel, distributed computing with
commercial- off-the-shelf technologies. The resulting RT-LAB
product range enables customers to develop simulations quickly,
easily, affordably, and competitively. For more information
about Opal-RT's range of Engineering Simulators and Distributed
Processing Tools, see http://www.opal-rt.com .
Opal-RT Technologies Inc.
EVS 21 Booth #B134
Monaco
SOURCE Opal-RT Technologies Inc. Web Site: http://www.opal-rt.com
Copyright � 1996-2005 PR Newswire Association LLC. All Rights
Reserved. A United Business Media company.
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
It's not so much that the car lifts but rather that it
leans. since the force of acceleration is happening at
the level of the tarmac the car as a whole leans as it
is pushed from ground level. Notice how a rocket car
does not, since it is being pushed from up high. When
you have enough additional power added to the mix then
you start to get lift as well in rear wheel drive.
some vehicles such as my BMW motorcycle have some
reaction torque in the swing arm (like a traction
bar)that lift the back of the bike on take of while it
trys too lean back, it makes it really had to burn out
or wheely but it sure takes of fast.
Gadget
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've never owned a front wheel drive car before.
>
> With a rear wheel drive, because of the ring and
> pinion, the front of
> the car lifts up on acceleration.
>
> With a front wheel drive and the engine being
> sideways, it seems it
> could either raise the front, or raise the rear of
> the car depending
> on how they have it setup from the factory.
>
> What is the situation with front wheel drive? Which
> end of the car
> lifts up on take off? What's the deal with Honda
> motors turning the
> opposite way from other motors?
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(PHEWS?, Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://technocrat.net/article.pl?sid=05/04/02/1238245&mode=nocomment
Modding the Prius
posted by zogger on Friday April 01, @11:19PM
The Prius is a popular Hybrid car, but some enthusiasts want it
to have the features of a pure electric, they want to be able to
plug it in overnight and be able to commute to work on pure
battery power only.
ed: This option seems most reasonable to me. With that in mind,
read on for more news about this week's cool ride, the "PHEWS" or
"Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle":
"Ron Gremban and Felix Kramer have modified a Toyota Prius so it
can be plugged into a wall outlet.
This does not make Toyota happy. The company has spent millions
of dollars persuading people that hybrid electric cars like the
Prius never need to be plugged in and work just like normal cars.
So has Honda, which even ran a commercial that showed a guy
wandering around his Civic hybrid fruitlessly searching for a
plug.
But the idea of making hybrid cars that have the option of being
plugged in is supported by a diverse group of interests, from
neoconservatives who support greater fuel efficiency to utilities
salivating at the chance to supplant oil with
electricity."...more at article link
More about this concept with links to the initiative, examples
and other news. DIY!
"Plug-In Hybrids: The Cars We Can Have Now and for the Next Ten+
Years
The growing costs of U.S. dependence on oil have hit home. Factor
in world insecurity, economic instability, and it's clear we pay
a lot more to fill up our cars than the price on the pump. And
with the threat of global warming, it's clear we need to use much
less oil. How can we start to change?
The century-old gasoline-powered engine is on its way out. Auto
makers say the answer will someday be fuel cell cars. Maybe, but
we need to get affordable cars now that use far less gas with
lower greenhouse gas emissions.
A first step is already on our roads. Hybrid cars add an electric
motor to a gas-powered engine to improve efficiency at slow
speeds and rev up when needed. The popularity of the first
hybrids caught auto makers by surprise. Yet as they scramble to
catch up, they're missing the big opportunity to leapfrog to
next-generation hybrids. "...more there with much link-age
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> some vehicles such as my BMW motorcycle have some
> reaction torque in the swing arm (like a traction
> bar)that lift the back of the bike on take of while it
> trys too lean back, it makes it really had to burn out
> or wheely but it sure takes of fast.
Actually, I think this is incorrect. A conventional shaft drive
motorcycle tends to raise the rear end under power as the pinion tries
to 'walk' around the ring gear. BMW's 'paralever' rear suspension is
designed to reduce this effect.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Mine's not that new. It's pre-paralever. we tried to
do a burnout at one of the bike shows and instead of
spinning the tire, the bike picked up the front end
along with the three lineman size guys trying to hold
the front forks down and shoved all of us about ten
feet before I could let off the trottle. The boys from
American Chopper where there and were they impressed.
Gadget
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Reverend Gadget [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > some vehicles such as my BMW motorcycle have some
> > reaction torque in the swing arm (like a traction
> > bar)that lift the back of the bike on take of
> while it
> > trys too lean back, it makes it really had to burn
> out
> > or wheely but it sure takes of fast.
>
> Actually, I think this is incorrect. A conventional
> shaft drive
> motorcycle tends to raise the rear end under power
> as the pinion tries
> to 'walk' around the ring gear. BMW's 'paralever'
> rear suspension is
> designed to reduce this effect.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
I think its great Bob has offered to become part of the Wicked Watts event.
I'll need to find out more details pertaining to your questions.
There is an industrial area, a lot of it track and racing related, off to
the right as you enter the raceway. I imagine its in there but don't have an
exact location. Don't know the exact time Bob plans to give a tour of his
facility. It may work out better after the race ends at 12:00 noon.
Richard and Stan would have a better idea.
I'll ask them and get back with you and the list. I also asked Kimberly at
the track about racing the Camaro. I don't think it will be an issue, but
the track likes to know what we plan to do so they aren't surprised. Also
they like to know for PR purposes.
This Wicked Watts race will be a great opportunity to see some pretty cool
cars so there is still time for folks to make arrangements and come out.
I'll provide more details as they become available.
See ya,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
> David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sounds great, many thanks to Bob for hosting this. What time would be
> best? After 12 after the races on Saturday? Is it easy to see the
> "Shelby America" sign?
>
> --- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> We will have a special guest joining us for Wicked Watts this
>> Saturday April
>> 9.
>>
>> Bob Anderson, a Carroll Shelby prot�g�, who has been working on EV
>> technology for many years will be racing with us at Wicked Watts.
>> He has
>> started buiding an Electric Cobra prototype base on Shelby's
>> original "98"
>> car. Bob was also a road racer for many years. Shelby America is
>> located in
>> the industrial section of the Las Vegas Motor Speedway, where Bob
>> received
>> help setting up an EV shop. He has constructed futuristic EV's that
>> were
>> used in the movies "Minority Report" and "AI" by Stephen Spielberg.
>> In
>> addition to racing at Wicked Watts 2005, he has offered to host an
>> open
>> house of his shop during the NEDRA EVent with lots of machine
>> tools, EV
>> parts, dyno tester, and EV's to drive.
>>
>> Chip Gribben
>> NEDRA Webmaster
>> http://www.nedra.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Where are you located?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mason Convey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 18:16 PM
Subject: Sell my S-10 EV or part it out?
> Looking for some general advice on how I can recover the largest amount
from
> my half-finished EV...
>
> Option 1: Sell it as a half-finished EV
> Option 2: Part it out
>
> I imagine it probably depends on just how close to completion it is, so
here
> are some details. Let me know if you have any thoughts on how I can get
the
> most from what I have. I just don't have the time or motivation to finish
> the truck.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> 1994 Chevy S-10 Pickup, fleet model, longbed, Silver Shield bed cover
> Only 5,600 miles on the truck
> Originally converted by US Electricar, but the drive was stripped out
>
> Aftermarket wiring harness sitting in a box
> 9" Advanced DC motor already mated to original Borg Warner T5 manual
> transmission
> Rear battery box built, but no mounting brackets yet.
> Middle battery box (behind cab) is modified US Electricar box. 75%
complete.
> Front battery box built, but no mounting brackets yet.
>
> Instrument panel complete with brand new speedometer and 4 other
EV-related
> gauges (voltmeter, etc)
> E-Meter with prescaler brand new and still in the box.
> Todd DC-DC converter also still in the box.
>
> Those are the major items I can think of. Would you recommend parting out
> the truck and EV components, or selling it as a half-finished project?
>
> Any ballpark idea what I could get for it as a whole or the parts
> individually?
>
> Thanks.
>
> mason
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone,
This is a request for a show of hands of folks who may be attending this
years Wicked Watts Race in Las Vegas. The race is this Saturday April 9.
So far this is who I know who is coming
1) Brigham Young University and their ultracapacitor powered EV-1
2) Brian Hall and his drag bikes
3) Brent and Kent singleton with their electric jr dragster
4) Bill Kuel racing his Fiero
5) Richard Furniss racing his RX-7
6) David Dymaxion racing his gas Camaro against any EV Challengers
Roderick, Rich, Otmar, John and the gang. Any of you all planning to come
out?
I know some folks who aren't racing are coming out to visit. If they could
let me know I'd like to pass that information along to Richard and Stan.
Thanks
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Most people last year stay at the Cannery hotel and casino but there are
other places,
Other lodging sites include:
Cannery casino http://www.cannerycasinos.com/main2.html
Best Inn & Suites (about $99 a night), Tel: (702) 632-0229
Super 8 Motel (about $50 a night) and Blueberry Hill Restaurant,
Tel: (702) 644-5666
Lodging arrangements in Las Vegas can be found at:
http://www.lasvegas.com
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
One more step in addition to forced air cooling would be a small pump to
put a water mist into the air stream. Would greatly increase the
cooling without the complexity of a full liquid system. I would not use
it all the time, just turn it on when pushing the motor current out to
the limits. Use the forced air alone for normal operations.
That's probably what I'll end up doing, forced air for normal opperation
and supliment this system with water misting for high power opperation.
Myles Twete wrote:
For example, say the ETEK's nominal total electrical resistance is
41mohm at 40degC. If the temperature is even allowed to increase to
50degC, this resistance will increase something close to 42.6mohm
(assuming most of the resistance is in the copper windings (TC of
3.9x10^-3)). That's a 3.9% INCREASE in resistance in resistance for
only 10degC temp increase! At 100degC, the resistance would increase
to 50.5mohm, i.e. a 23% increase in winding resistance from 40degC.
This increased resistance leads directly to increased power loss,
decreased efficiency, and yet more increased heat...
That's why I was asking about pre-cooling the motors. Wouldn't the
rotors copper be less resistive and more effecient if it were colder?
> "41.0 mohms at 40 degC"
> "42.6 mohms at 50 degC" ( 1.6 mohms per 10 degC )
> "50.5 mohms at 100 degC" ( 1.58 mohms per 10 degC )
( So, if this is linear(?), then... )
50 degC = 42.6 mohms 3.9% more resistance
40 degC = 41.0 mohms ( base for measurements )
30 degC = 39.4 mohms 4% less resistance
20 degC = 37.8 mohms 8%
10 degC = 36.2 mohms 13%
0 degC = 34.6 mohms 18% ( Solid water, Ice )
-10 degC = 33.0 mohms 24%
-20 degC = 31.4 mohms 30%
-30 degC = 29.8 mohms 37%
-40 degC = 28.2 mohms 45%
-50 degC = 26.6
-60 degC = 25.0 ( Liquid CO2 -56.4 degC (triple point))
-70 degC = 23.4
-80 degC = 21.8 ( Dry Ice -78.5 degC )
-90 degC = 20.2
-100 degC = 18.6
-110 degC = 17.0
-120 degC = 15.4
-130 degC = 13.8
-140 degC = 12.2
-150 degC = 10.6
-160 degC = 9.0
-170 degC = 7.4
-180 degC = 5.8
-190 degC = 4.2
-200 degC = 2.6 ( Liquid Nitrogen -195.8 degC )
-210 degC = 1.0
-220 degC = ?.? SuperConducting ( umm, or not )
-230 degC = ?.?
-240 degC = ?.?
-250 degC = ?.? ( Liquid H2 -252.8 degC )
-260 degC = ?.?
-273.15�C = Absolute Zero ( So it's not linear, or my metric is off )
So, are there any components within the E-Tek that would not stand
up to extreme low temperatures? Which parts and at what temperatures?
The first piece I'de be concerned about is the plastic brush housing.
L8r
Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
This "article" almost looks like a press release from eXkate. It is
certainly very biased in their favor.
Having ridden the eXkate products quite a bit, I can say that there is
no way it can pull two people up the steepest hills as the copy claims,
unless those two people weigh under 150lbs combined and the hill isn't
that steep.
EXkate makes a good product at a premium price, but it is FAR from
flawless as the article claims. I have heard a number of reports of
difficulty with components on eXkate boards.
While I'd currently have to say that eXkate is the clear leader in the
powerboard market, their failure to evolve and innovate over the past
three to four years makes them ripe for getting knocked off their
throne.
Electric Louie (the powerboard inventor and former owner) prototyped
NiMH and Li-ion boards YEARS ago, yet these basic innovations are still
not here and not even slated for imminent release this season.
The article got it right when they said that this is going to be a very
hot segment in the near future. We are product testing now, so look for
reviews, upgrades and performance features on my site in the coming
months.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
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--- Begin Message ---
> Just for anybody who may not know (me), what is the buck enhancement feature?
>
Plastic surgery for a male deer?
I always get buck and boost mixed up, but they are raising or lowering voltage
(buck =<, boost =>?) with inverse effect on current.
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Gadget and the mrs will be at the super 8 arriving
thursday night.
Gadget
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> This is a request for a show of hands of folks who
> may be attending this
> years Wicked Watts Race in Las Vegas. The race is
> this Saturday April 9.
>
> So far this is who I know who is coming
>
> 1) Brigham Young University and their ultracapacitor
> powered EV-1
>
> 2) Brian Hall and his drag bikes
>
> 3) Brent and Kent singleton with their electric jr
> dragster
>
> 4) Bill Kuel racing his Fiero
>
> 5) Richard Furniss racing his RX-7
>
> 6) David Dymaxion racing his gas Camaro against any
> EV Challengers
>
> Roderick, Rich, Otmar, John and the gang. Any of you
> all planning to come
> out?
>
> I know some folks who aren't racing are coming out
> to visit. If they could
> let me know I'd like to pass that information along
> to Richard and Stan.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA Webmaster
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I got one of these cells, to evaluate, unfortunently I managed to
destroy it attempting to solder on some leads ( I think it's missing
the top lead from the photo, which made it difficult to use...
I'll double check tonight.
I've had good results from one set of similar $1 cells from EG, and
also got some weak $0.75 cells what ended up being unusable, for BEV's.
These ones "look" like the "good" cells, they have wrappers anyway...
L8r
Ryan
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Ok folks, I thought some of you might be interested in these cells:
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G14948
3.7V 1.2A $2 ea.
Probably be good for a cheap scooter/e-bike project or if someone is
REALLY industrius they could build a full size EV pack ala T-zero.
The cells weight 38 gr each, so a 10kwh EV pack would weigh less than 200
lbs and cost about $4500.
Assuming, of course, that Electronic Goldmine has that many cells.
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