EV Digest 4460
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Small diesel for lightweight or auxiliary or charger?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: biz is booming
by "john" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: on Ebay: 2004 Toyota Prius Wrecked Salvage
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EV selling stratagies, Re: biz is booming
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Acceleration Calculations
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Tachometer Hookup
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Looking for a smarter E-meter
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Digi-Key
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Tachometer Hookup
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Tachometer Hookup
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re:Tachometer Hookup
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) E mail Address
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tachometer Hookup
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: ComutaCar "rescue"an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Charging problem... or maybe misunderstading EMeter
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: ComutaCar "rescue"an' Stuff
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Tachometer Hookup
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Tachometer Hookup
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Tachometer Hookup
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Datalogging Laptop for sale.
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Need Charger Recommendation
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re:Tachometer Hookup
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Antique hybrid idea
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) What is the balance point for a Hybrid design?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Antique hybrid idea
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Where are my amp hours?
by "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) discontinued Siemens motors
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11754&item=7526739955
&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW&tc=photo
Interesting cooling.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's great, keep us posted how that goes. My friend Rush and I are
thinking of doing conversions here in Tucson and that could be a good way to
get the word out; starting with delivery people.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:48 PM
Subject: biz is booming
> Hi Guys, its been a long time, but things are going great, me and my
> husband are in a new shop. and are in talks with a major car parts
> store to convert 2 of their delivery trucks for evaluation. they may
> want a lot of them done, Here in Ks, theres a 40% tax incentive back
> to the owner. Only bad thing is that they want to use their own line
> of batterys, We told them we dont know how they will hold up agins a T-
> 105 battery so tis their loss if they go dead after a while or a loss
> of range....But its a start to make a lot of conversions here. Sharon
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
WOW!
Lightly wrecked is an understatement! The body panels for that would run in
the thousands and with it being a newer vehicle would be hard to find in a
yard. Probably better to find something with catastophic engine failure
like I did. My daughter had a Saturn that got the front end torn up like
that and it took over $5000 to fix it. After that the insurance co
cancelled her. It is obviously in the junkyard for a good reason.
IMHO
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: on Ebay: 2004 Toyota Prius Wrecked Salvage
I just found this on Ebay, thought someone in Califoria might be
interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7983492807&category=6763
--------------
"This is a lightly wrecked 2004 Prius with 15,372 miles. "
Current bid: US $10.50
Time left: 4 days 10 hours
Item location: Carmichael, California
---------------
Michael Shipway
Maryland, USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sharon, John and All,
Great hanging in there Sharon until your
business got going, that's the hardest part, the first
couple ones out the door.
As for deliveries, that's where EV's
really shine as the vehicle usually runs a set route
or comes back to base often.
For one that comes back to base often, a
50 mile range EV can do 150 mile/day easily just by
fast charging when back at the base. And lead batts
love that, being used.
But don't build except on order as people
just won't pay for an already built used EV.
How Sharon does it, converting them on
order is the best way from the customer's vehicle or
help them find a glider to convert. Or build new
perferably on order too. Write up good air tight
contracts too to protect yourself.
Maybe have one for show but don't sell it,
use it yourself saying it is yours and not for sale
whether it is or not. I know this sounds strange but
is just how selling used EV's goes. Just ask those who
have built on spec!!
A good way to start is building a cool kit
car like a GT 40, Cobra, ect Waylanded out, for
yourself then build other ones on order with money up
front.
If they want to buy yours tell them no and
then charge them a good premium if they insist.
Only by building new from scratch can you
build EV's first and sell them but even on my Freedom
EV I'm doing, will be built on order only after the
first one.
Having a 40% tax rebate helps a lot
getting started!!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
--- john <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's great, keep us posted how that goes. My
> friend Rush and I are
> thinking of doing conversions here in Tucson and
> that could be a good way to
> get the word out; starting with delivery people.
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:48 PM
> Subject: biz is booming
>
>
> > Hi Guys, its been a long time, but things are
> going great, me and my
> > husband are in a new shop. and are in talks with a
> major car parts
> > store to convert 2 of their delivery trucks for
> evaluation. they may
> > want a lot of them done, Here in Ks, theres a 40%
> tax incentive back
> > to the owner. Only bad thing is that they want to
> use their own line
> > of batterys, We told them we dont know how they
> will hold up agins a T-
> > 105 battery so tis their loss if they go dead
> after a while or a loss
> > of range....But its a start to make a lot of
> conversions here. Sharon
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> MES 200-175 motor torque curve
> RPM Torque (Nm)
> 0 220
> 300 220
> 600 218
> 900 212
> 1200 207
> 1500 190
> 1800 172
> 2100 158
> 2400 145
> 2700 133
> 3000 120
> 3300 112
> 3600 102
> 3900 91
> 4200 85
> 4500 80
> 4800 74
> 5100 70
> 5400 64
> 5700 60
> 6000 55
> 6300 52
> 6600 50
> 6900 47
> 7200 44
> 7500 42
> 7800 40
> 8100 37
> 8400 34
> 8700 30
> 9000 27
Why does that remind me of a DC motor torque curve? I thought AC
motors had more traditional ICE like torque curves?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wanted to see if I could keep the original tachometer on my conversion by
hooking it up to an optical RPM wheel attached to the motor's tail shaft.
There are three leads on the tach:
+12V
Ground
Crank Signal
The crank signal input takes "ground pulses" from the crank angle and
converts their frequency to drive the gage.
The ICE had 3 cylinders, so it seems that every three ground pulses would
count as one RPM.
To test this, I hooked up the tach to the +12V and ground leads of a PC
power supply, then ran a wire from a pin of the parallel port, for which I
wrote a program that toggles the pin on and off (between 5V and 0V) at
various rates, for example 12000 times a minute for 4000 RPM.
Unfortunately, as soon as I hook the tach to PC's +12V and 0V, the needle
jumps to 2000 RPMs and stays there. It doesn't matter whether the third
line is connected or not. And if it is connected, it doesn't matter whether
it's at steady ground, steady 5V or pulsing thousands of times a second.
The needle won't move. When I remove power, the needle goes back to zero.
Anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach asked:
> Does anyone know if there is an E-meter device that can turn
> a relay on when the SOC reaches 0% and turn the relay off when SOC reaches
100%?
For that, you need look no further than the Link10 E-meter itself:
>From Xantrex's pages, there is an alarm output option for the Link10 which
has programmable Alarm ON and Alarm OFF voltages and AmpHour settings.
"Link 10 also available in Choice option with RS232 Serial Data Port and
alarm switch"
The switch output is limited in drive current, but conceivably you could
drive a DC-coil relay connected to your charger.
-Myles Twete
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got a catalog in the mail from them and the enclosed letter said
they have grown from the 20th largest electronic distributor in the
world, to the 8th largest.
Makes me wonder what the first 7 companies are. Anyone know which is
the largest, or the first 3 or?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hm, maybe I see what's going on. The tach isn't hooked directly to 12V.
There's a noise suppressor filter between the +12V and the tach, which
appears to have a resistor and capacitor inside, so it must be limiting the
current and dropping some voltage.
I wonder if I've ruined the tach by hooking it to 12V with no current limit.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Tachometer Hookup
I wanted to see if I could keep the original tachometer on my conversion by
hooking it up to an optical RPM wheel attached to the motor's tail shaft.
There are three leads on the tach:
+12V
Ground
Crank Signal
The crank signal input takes "ground pulses" from the crank angle and
converts their frequency to drive the gage.
The ICE had 3 cylinders, so it seems that every three ground pulses would
count as one RPM.
To test this, I hooked up the tach to the +12V and ground leads of a PC
power supply, then ran a wire from a pin of the parallel port, for which I
wrote a program that toggles the pin on and off (between 5V and 0V) at
various rates, for example 12000 times a minute for 4000 RPM.
Unfortunately, as soon as I hook the tach to PC's +12V and 0V, the needle
jumps to 2000 RPMs and stays there. It doesn't matter whether the third
line is connected or not. And if it is connected, it doesn't matter whether
it's at steady ground, steady 5V or pulsing thousands of times a second.
The needle won't move. When I remove power, the needle goes back to zero.
Anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll bet if you hooked your PC power supply up to an O'Scope you won't see a
nice smooth DC line, but rather a PWM
squarewave running at around 100 khz. The 100khz guess is based on your
computations of 3 clicks per rev.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Bill Dennis
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:10 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Tachometer Hookup
>
> I wanted to see if I could keep the original tachometer on my conversion by
> hooking it up to an optical RPM wheel attached to the motor's tail shaft.
> There are three leads on the tach:
>
> +12V
> Ground
> Crank Signal
>
> The crank signal input takes "ground pulses" from the crank angle and
> converts their frequency to drive the gage.
>
> The ICE had 3 cylinders, so it seems that every three ground pulses would
> count as one RPM.
>
> To test this, I hooked up the tach to the +12V and ground leads of a PC
> power supply, then ran a wire from a pin of the parallel port, for which I
> wrote a program that toggles the pin on and off (between 5V and 0V) at
> various rates, for example 12000 times a minute for 4000 RPM.
>
> Unfortunately, as soon as I hook the tach to PC's +12V and 0V, the needle
> jumps to 2000 RPMs and stays there. It doesn't matter whether the third
> line is connected or not. And if it is connected, it doesn't matter whether
> it's at steady ground, steady 5V or pulsing thousands of times a second.
> The needle won't move. When I remove power, the needle goes back to zero.
>
> Anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OOp's bad math.
Figure 3 pulses per rev = 667 pulses per minute = 40,020 pulses per sec = 40
khz. That sounds a little more realistic.
Is 40khz about the switching frequency of a PC power supply?
>
> I'll bet if you hooked your PC power supply up to an O'Scope you won't see a
> nice smooth DC line, but rather a PWM squarewave running at around 100 khz.
> The 100khz guess is based on your computations of 3 clicks per rev.
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> "Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated,
> it develops into Arrogance, which is often fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
>
> Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address; send a request to ryan at
> evsourcecom
>
>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of Bill Dennis
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:10 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Tachometer Hookup
>>
>> I wanted to see if I could keep the original tachometer on my
>> conversion by hooking it up to an optical RPM wheel attached to the
> motor's tail shaft.
>> There are three leads on the tach:
>>
>> +12V
>> Ground
>> Crank Signal
>>
>> The crank signal input takes "ground pulses" from the crank angle and
>> converts their frequency to drive the gage.
>>
>> The ICE had 3 cylinders, so it seems that every three ground pulses
>> would count as one RPM.
>>
>> To test this, I hooked up the tach to the +12V and ground leads of a
>> PC power supply, then ran a wire from a pin of the parallel port, for
>> which I wrote a program that toggles the pin on and off (between 5V
>> and 0V) at various rates, for example 12000 times a minute for 4000 RPM.
>>
>> Unfortunately, as soon as I hook the tach to PC's +12V and 0V, the
>> needle jumps to 2000 RPMs and stays there. It doesn't matter whether
>> the third line is connected or not. And if it is connected, it
>> doesn't matter whether it's at steady ground, steady 5V or pulsing
> thousands of times a second.
>> The needle won't move. When I remove power, the needle goes back to zero.
>>
>> Anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill Dennis
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey! John Shelton;Just back from Japan;
I hate to post this to the List, but if John you have your ears on can
you hit me back with a E mail that I can just click on 'Reply" without all
the digital bullshit they, Micro soft is trying to tell me I must have.
Incripted? Phooey!!Did get your note off List can't reply ! Damn it!
Digitally incripted, or something like that, trying to get all that settled,
endless requests for info for something I don't know or care to know
about.Tryed to reply from my Address book E mail, same thing!Hook up yur
Civvy E mail!
Seeya, Thanks!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
>
> I wanted to see if I could keep the original tachometer on my conversion by
> hooking it up to an optical RPM wheel attached to the motor's tail shaft.
> There are three leads on the tach:
>
> +12V
> Ground
> Crank Signal
>
> The crank signal input takes "ground pulses" from the crank angle and
> converts their frequency to drive the gage.
>
> The ICE had 3 cylinders, so it seems that every three ground pulses would
> count as one RPM.
>
> To test this, I hooked up the tach to the +12V and ground leads of a PC
> power supply, then ran a wire from a pin of the parallel port, for which I
> wrote a program that toggles the pin on and off (between 5V and 0V) at
> various rates, for example 12000 times a minute for 4000 RPM.
>
> Unfortunately, as soon as I hook the tach to PC's +12V and 0V, the needle
> jumps to 2000 RPMs and stays there. It doesn't matter whether the third
> line is connected or not. And if it is connected, it doesn't matter whether
> it's at steady ground, steady 5V or pulsing thousands of times a second.
> The needle won't move. When I remove power, the needle goes back to zero.
>
> Anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong?
No; but it's a good start.
I think I would next try to look at the signals on the 3 tach wires with
an oscilloscope. If you don't have one, how about a multimeter that has
a frequency display? Failing that, there are programs for PCs that use
them as a logic analyzer or oscilloscope; you may be able to look at the
signals with that.
Once you know what's actually there, you have a better chance to build
something to drive it.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
As A former Citicar guy, I agree with Lee that they, we went from one
extreame to another. Gees ,we worked on the first ones to put all the damn
heavy batteries in the Middle, under the seat.Handled fine, well, tongue in
cheek, for Citicars. My first reaction to them out the bumpers was
UGLY!!Raises hell with the handling, too! All this happened long after I
left! Or they woulda got a fight from ME! But what could I say? I wanted to
go with the GE 5hp motor and 60 volts early on, but the bean counters had
their say too early on,tooQuality control? Hah! You had to retrain the help
after every coffee break. Gees! Move the plant to up North, pay and hire
literate help!!YOU work, putting stuff like that together in that Hell Hole
of Sebring FLA! 99 degrees, 99 degrees humidity, blazing sun! No AC back
then, so ya can see why quality control sorta slipped.I have been in Taiwan
and VietNan, both had nicer climates than Central Florida. My apologies to
folks that live in FLA, but betya ya live near or on the coast, for the sea
breezes. BTW Sebring is nice a few weaks in the winter<g>!Maybe a Citicar
built in January? Better quality control<g>!
So Put them, ALL, batteries, say 60 volts worth?Get an Altrax
controller! Please, get rid if the contacters! 'Cept for reverse and a line
switch, wire the double pole one in series so it breaks at 4 points, so in
an all -on failure you can "Key" off! back under the seat, plenty, or should
be plenty of real estate there, still, make some new bumpers out of two by
6's varnish them, if you get clean say Doug Fir, for a nice touch.I can see
upgrading a Citycar into a fun thing to hold ya til you can do a Real Car.
Reminising a bit
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: ComutaCar "rescue"
> Mark Hanson wrote:
> > Bob Beaumont told me to put the batteries *back* in the middle
> > (was on the original CitiCar) and get them out of the bumpers for
> > better handling. Jim Tervort put them in the bumpers for crash
> > test requirements. My handling sucked (was unsafe) with the
> > batteries in the bumpers when I had one in the 80's.
>
> Yes; it's a trade-off. Typical of Citicar engineering, they went from
> one extreme to the other. All in the center, or all in the ends. The
> best compromise would be to distribute them more equally.
> --
> The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
> -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure if I'm having problems, or simply misunderstanding my equipment.
Monday morning I came out to my truck, and as I was getting ready to leave
noticed my EMeter was at 88%. The truck was still plugged in when I came out,
and I could hear the PFC20 humming along, so I know it didn't trip the GFI. I
hopped in the gasser thinking there was a problem. Monday evening I plugged it
back in to see if it would charge to 100%. I forgot about it till this
morning, and when I got in... still at 88%. Oddly though, the KWh (amps)
counter was at about -.5.
I had thought the KWh/Amp counter and "Fuel" percentage were connected... am I
mistaken?
The other question is why (after 6 weeks of fairly predictable charging) have I
ended up 12% off. My first (and only) guess so far is that it's due to the
extremely hot weather we've been having (upper 90's for about two weeks now).
Unfortunately I've not gotten my head around the PFC20 voltage trim Vs
temperature relation at this point... or it may be better to say I haven't
gotten my head around lead acid battery voltage VS temperature.
Am I having several newbie issues all at once?
Glenn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
> As A former Citicar guy, I agree with Lee that they (we) went from
> one extreme to another... I can see upgrading a Citycar into a fun
> thing to hold ya til you can do a Real Car.
Right on, Bob! THAT sums it up perfectly! The
CitiCar/ComutaCar/ComutaVan is a great way to learn about EVs, but it is
a long way from a "real car". I see them as a wonderful, quirky, fun,
kickin'-around-town vehicle.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Figure 3 pulses per rev = 667 pulses per minute = 40,020 pulses per sec =
>40 khz. That sounds a little more realistic.
Hm, 500 pulses per second * 60 seconds = 30000 pulses. 30000 / 3 = 10000
RPM. So that seems a little fast for the 2000 RPM that's showing.
If smoother DC is the solution, would it work to hook the negative terminal
of the car's original battery to the PC power supply's ground, then take the
12V from the car battery and the ground pulses from the parallel port?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hm, maybe I see what's going on. The tach isn't hooked directly to 12V.
Please ignore the above post. The tach is indeed hooked up to 12V and 0V.
It's the pulse line that has the noise suppression filter. That's what I
get for reading writing schematics at midnight.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Figure 3 pulses per rev = 667 pulses per minute = 40,020
> > pulses per sec = 40 khz. That sounds a little more realistic.
>
> Hm, 500 pulses per second * 60 seconds = 30000 pulses. 30000
> / 3 = 10000 RPM. So that seems a little fast for the 2000
> RPM that's showing.
I'm not sure about your crank-triggered tach, but ignition triggered
tachs operate on 0.5 x # of cylinders pulses per rev. That is, a 4 cyl
engine's tach expects 2 pulses per rev (because only 2 of the cylinders
fire per rev, or, from another angle, on a 4-stroke engine each cylinder
fires every second revolution since 4-strokes = 2 up, and 2 down and
there is one up and down per rev).
2000RPM x 1.5 pulses/rev = 3000 pulses/min = 50 Hz. Possibly your tach
is responding to 60 or 120Hz ripple on the power supply, or responding
oddly to the much higher switching frequency or other noise on the
supply.
> If smoother DC is the solution, would it work to hook the
> negative terminal of the car's original battery to the PC
> power supply's ground, then take the 12V from the car battery
> and the ground pulses from the parallel port?
Yes. Well, maybe ;^> This will provide the tach with a clean supply,
but your pulses from the parallel port will (I believe) swing between
+5V and ground, which may or may not satisfy the tach.
I picked up a factory instrument cluster (with tach) from a wrecker for
my Suzuki Forsa (Chevy Sprint) conversion, which was also originally
powered by a 3-cyl ICE. I connected it up to a DC supply and used a
signal generator to drive the tach input for testing. I don't have my
notes handy to confirm for sure that it adhered to the 1.5 pulses/rev (3
pulses/2 rev), but certainly it did indicate 0 RPM with no signal
applied to the tach input and indicated increasing RPM with increasing
frequency applied to the tach input.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One of the teachers I work with is selling his personal laptop. It
would be perfect as an EV Data-logger and for other small projects. The
specs are:
IBM Thinkpad 390-E
233 MHz P-II
14" Active matrix color display.
64M Ram
6 Gig hard drive
Floppy Drive
CD/ROM
Integral Modem (Lucent winmodem)
3-Com 10/100 PCMCIA network card
Windows 98 installed.
I have just cleaned this computer, formatted the hard drive,
re-installed the operating system and updated all the drivers / CMOS,
and OS.
I don't know the state of the battery, it could be great or it could be
lousy, my bet is lousy as the chargers on these laptops are not known
for battery preservation.
Best offer over $120.00 (plus shipping) takes it.
There is nothing wrong with this laptop (that I can find).
Comes with a leather carrying case. I might be able to scare up a few
pictures later. E-mail me directly if you are interested.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
The PFC50 series can draw 12.5 Kw from 240 single phase. AKA a electric
range outlet.
I don't need to have 440 3 phase. Just house current.
The PFC50B buck enhanced charger can make 75 amps of output current from 12
volts to about 150 VDC output.
So... 48 volts at 75 amps is.....about 20 minutes to %80. Or less if you are
not completely drained to start with.
So... A PFC50B will do.
Now for the new stuff a PFC40I...not available yet... will make (should
make) 100 amps at the 60 volt level., maybe 200 amps if we strech the 36
volt super high current unit to 48 volts.
10Kw of 48 volts is a LOT of amps.
Keep in mind that these low voltage chargers will be isoalted, and can
charge at peak currents at or below thier rated voltage. It's entirely
possible to make a 260 amp 36 volt charger. And still keep it smaller than a
PFC50 case.
REALLY high power charging is filling a 60+kwhr Valence pack in 30 minutes.
This takes 480 3 phase.... and some really serious power silicon.
One scratch design was for 800 amp at 200 volts for 30 minutes with a 5
minute pause followed by doing it again. This power level is getting real
close to the peak power you could get from a Raptor 1200 amp controller. Yea
I could be doing Grid powered charger that make more watts than a racing
controller from a couple of years ago.
I will spend more time on that one once I see the first check...... If ya
know what I mean???
I have the Watts ! How fast do you want to go?
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Need Charger Recommendation
> This charger and my motorcycle. 4 optimas. About 20 minutes to 80%
charge
> or would that take a PFC 50? Seeing this new fast charging technology
> promising 15 to 20 minutes to 80% (well not new just out there) what would
> it take to get that performance in a big pack using PFC technology? 440
> three phase. 10k of charger? I'd sure like to know. Lawrence Rhodes....
>
>
> > PFC20B
> > $1800 list.
> > 5 days lead time from order.
> >
> > 12 to 450 volts output
> > 110VAC to 240 VAC input. 30 amps output with 240 VAC and a 20 amp feed.
> >
> > Or just check the Manzanitamicro.com Website
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
DUH!
It's getting pretty bad when I notice that I made a mathematical error and then
post *another* mathematical error.
Just a being a little wardsback this morning.
Pay attention to Roger, while I go back to bed.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Roger Stockton
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:14 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Tachometer Hookup
>
> Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> >Figure 3 pulses per rev = 667 pulses per minute = 40,020 pulses per
>> >sec = 40 khz. That sounds a little more realistic.
>>
>> Hm, 500 pulses per second * 60 seconds = 30000 pulses. 30000 / 3 =
>> 10000 RPM. So that seems a little fast for the 2000 RPM that's
>> showing.
>
> I'm not sure about your crank-triggered tach, but ignition triggered tachs
> operate on 0.5 x # of cylinders pulses per rev. That is, a 4 cyl engine's
> tach expects 2 pulses per rev (because only 2 of the cylinders fire per rev,
> or, from another angle, on a 4-stroke engine each cylinder fires every
> second revolution since 4-strokes = 2 up, and 2 down and there is one up and
> down per rev).
>
> 2000RPM x 1.5 pulses/rev = 3000 pulses/min = 50 Hz. Possibly your tach is
> responding to 60 or 120Hz ripple on the power supply, or responding oddly to
> the much higher switching frequency or other noise on the supply.
>
>> If smoother DC is the solution, would it work to hook the negative
>> terminal of the car's original battery to the PC power supply's
>> ground, then take the 12V from the car battery and the ground pulses
>> from the parallel port?
>
> Yes. Well, maybe ;^> This will provide the tach with a clean supply, but
> your pulses from the parallel port will (I believe) swing between
> +5V and ground, which may or may not satisfy the tach.
>
> I picked up a factory instrument cluster (with tach) from a wrecker for my
> Suzuki Forsa (Chevy Sprint) conversion, which was also originally powered by
> a 3-cyl ICE. I connected it up to a DC supply and used a signal generator
> to drive the tach input for testing. I don't have my notes handy to confirm
> for sure that it adhered to the 1.5 pulses/rev (3
> pulses/2 rev), but certainly it did indicate 0 RPM with no signal applied to
> the tach input and indicated increasing RPM with increasing frequency
> applied to the tach input.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 25, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
The "hit-n-miss" or "dam-dam" engines were interesting. This is a
sort-of-normal small engine like you might find in a lawnmower.
However,
they have an unusually large flywheel,
I focused on the flywheel rather than the engine. I think flywheels
might be another valuable "battery" technology that should be studied.
and a valve mechanism that can be
disengaged. With the valves working, it runs like a normal engine. With
the valves off, it just freewheels -- the piston moves up and down, but
there are no pumping losses. The trapped air in the combustion chamber
just acts like a spring, returning the energy it takes for compression
on the downstroke.
What about heat losses? Compressing the air over and over again would
generate quite a lot of heat - witness how hot a piston air compressor
gets. Is this a significant loss, worth engineering out? Say, by
locking the valves open instead of closed?
What caught my attention is that someone had one connected to a
generator, and used it as a battery charger. It looked like an old Ford
model A generator was coupled directly to the flywheel, and used its
old
relay-type voltage regulator to control battery voltage and charging.
When there was no load on the battery, it charged at a couple amps, and
the dam-dam engine just fired once every 5 seconds or so. When he put a
load on the battery, the voltage sagged; the regulator called for more
current; the generator increased its load on the flywheel, and the
engine fired more and more often to maintain speed. A highly fuel
efficient hybrid power plant, built in the 1930's!
I wonder if this idea was ever used in a car? I wonder if it would be
practical today?
It might work. Here's one possibility:
The flywheel is coupled to an electric motor/generator as well as the
dam-dam engine. The motor spins up the flywheel while the car is
"charging" in the garage. It can also as a starter motor to start up
the dam-dam engine in case the flywheel has wound down.
While accelerating, it acts as a generator to create motive power to
move the car, and the dam-dam engine keeps the flywheel up to speed.
While decelerating, it can take regen current from the traction motor
and turn it into flywheel momentum.
Compared to a Prius, the flywheel is the battery pack and the dam-dam
is the ICE.
Any thoughts?
The usual problems with big flywheels in vehicles - dangerous kinetic
energy, weight, strange handling from the gyroscopic forces. Advanced
flywheels might help, but add cost and complexity.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let's assume we want a lightweight hybrid that we will use around town but
occasionally for longer trips.
If we had a 10hp diesel it could be used like a locomotive diesel/electric,
it would run all the time to send power to the batteries.
On the other hand if we had enough grid batter capacity for 10-15 miles or
so, in many instances we would not need to start the diesel.
This brings us to series or parallel hybrid design.
I am getting a little confused here about which system is more efficient. I
know that two 90% reliable system in parallel will yield 99% reliability.
What I do not know is the loses through an engine >generator> charging
system.
Anyone?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of old is new...
In today's Vancouver Sun is an article about the University of BC
competition car that just took top spot at the Society of Automotive
Engineers Supermileage Competition with a fuel consumption of 0.146L/100km
or 1608 miles per US gallon. They did it by using a 'coast and burn'
technique where the engine ran for about 15 seconds each 6 minutes with an
average speed of at least 24km/hr.
So I guess you could say they used the mass of the car in place of the
flywheel.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: June 28, 2005 9:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Antique hybrid idea
On Jun 25, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
>
> The "hit-n-miss" or "dam-dam" engines were interesting. This is a
> sort-of-normal small engine like you might find in a lawnmower.
> However,
> they have an unusually large flywheel,
I focused on the flywheel rather than the engine. I think flywheels
might be another valuable "battery" technology that should be studied.
> and a valve mechanism that can be
> disengaged. With the valves working, it runs like a normal engine. With
> the valves off, it just freewheels -- the piston moves up and down, but
> there are no pumping losses. The trapped air in the combustion chamber
> just acts like a spring, returning the energy it takes for compression
> on the downstroke.
What about heat losses? Compressing the air over and over again would
generate quite a lot of heat - witness how hot a piston air compressor
gets. Is this a significant loss, worth engineering out? Say, by
locking the valves open instead of closed?
> What caught my attention is that someone had one connected to a
> generator, and used it as a battery charger. It looked like an old Ford
> model A generator was coupled directly to the flywheel, and used its
> old
> relay-type voltage regulator to control battery voltage and charging.
>
> When there was no load on the battery, it charged at a couple amps, and
> the dam-dam engine just fired once every 5 seconds or so. When he put a
> load on the battery, the voltage sagged; the regulator called for more
> current; the generator increased its load on the flywheel, and the
> engine fired more and more often to maintain speed. A highly fuel
> efficient hybrid power plant, built in the 1930's!
>
> I wonder if this idea was ever used in a car? I wonder if it would be
> practical today?
It might work. Here's one possibility:
The flywheel is coupled to an electric motor/generator as well as the
dam-dam engine. The motor spins up the flywheel while the car is
"charging" in the garage. It can also as a starter motor to start up
the dam-dam engine in case the flywheel has wound down.
While accelerating, it acts as a generator to create motive power to
move the car, and the dam-dam engine keeps the flywheel up to speed.
While decelerating, it can take regen current from the traction motor
and turn it into flywheel momentum.
Compared to a Prius, the flywheel is the battery pack and the dam-dam
is the ICE.
>
> Any thoughts?
The usual problems with big flywheels in vehicles - dangerous kinetic
energy, weight, strange handling from the gyroscopic forces. Advanced
flywheels might help, but add cost and complexity.
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I built my first conversion this spring. It is a motorcycle.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/newsubmissions/maki_.html
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/newsubmissions/maki_.html>
I am using new Trojan SCS150 flooded batteries rated at 100AH C20 rate. I
have an e-meter installed. I had the amp hour set on the emeter set for
100AH and the perkerts exponent set conservatively at .35. I rode it and
the 4 fuel gauge leds at the top never came off full charge and the
batteries ran down to pretty much empty.
Then I set the emeter down to 80AH.
I have never go the emeter to read more than 17 AH used and the batteries
are flat. I have an Alltrax 450 amp controller and I never see more than
170 peak battery amps draw.
I don't get it. Where is all my energy going. I don't know if the
batteries aren't putting out the AH they are supposed to or if the emeter
isn't working correctly. I am not sure how to troubleshoot from here.
I am frustrated. Any advice?
Garret
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just checking Victor's website (http://www.metricmind.com/motor.htm), I
noticed that some of the Siemens motors at the lower end of the power scale
have been discontinued, including the 18kW (cont.) 5105 and the 30kW (cont.)
5133, the latter of which is apparently no longer available for individual
purchase in single quantities. It seems that Siemens must not have been
getting enough orders for the 5133 to keep up their production line on it,
as they will now only make a special order production run of the 5133 motor
for large quantity bulk purchases of 50-200 units. That's a bummer for me
as the 5133 was my preferred choice for my 914 conversion. The 45kW (cont.)
Siemens 5135 (which apparently *is* still available) is a bit overpowered
and heavy for my particular application.
Does Victor or anyone over there in Europe know what's going on with
Siemens? Are they getting out of the motor business at the lower end of the
power scale (as it doesn't look like they are replacing these discontinued
motors with any newer models, from what I can tell from Victor's website)?
I guess I'll have to look into the MES motors, although I don't believe
anyone over here in the States has done a conversion with them, at least not
that I can see on the EV Album. So that's a pretty big unknown as far as
the lack of any empirical record; no one to ask about their experience with
MES motors, although I heard that they are being used in some limited
production OEM EVs in Europe.
Charles
--- End Message ---
