EV Digest 4478
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: adapting MES motor (was: discontinued Siemens motors)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fwd: Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Almost Submerged the Heavy Metal Garden Tractor!
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) VT EVs
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Rules of thumb for engine, Generator Eff ...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV Book on Ebay
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Another PFC Caution? (was: PDF-20 design flaw) (long)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Bearings for clutch motors, Re: JeepEV Drivetrain (was: Re: Oozing
Motor?)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Another PFC Caution? (was: PDF-20 design flaw) (long)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: engine Generator question.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Almost Submerged the Heavy Metal Garden Tractor!
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Any EVcort Owners Out There?
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Rules of thumb for engine, Generator Eff ...
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: BRUSA NLG5xx max voltage
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Any EVcort Owners Out There?
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Any EVcort Owners Out There?
by "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) OT: Another idea that probably won't work
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) What voltage for what size ADC motor.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OT: Another idea that probably won't work
by "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Bearings for clutch motors, Re: JeepEV Drivetrain (was: Re: Oozing
Motor?)
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Bearings for clutch motors, Re: JeepEV Drivetrain (was: Re: Oozing
Motor?)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Need Info on Netgain Impulse
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: JeepEV Drivetrain (was: Re: Oozing Motor?)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: engine Generator question. Re: Lee Hart
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) 2000 decade EV designs
by Lance Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Warp 11" Torque/RPM graph
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
First, I'd like to ask youi to change the sibject, because
seeing "discontinued Siemens motors" is misleading message -
they are not really discontinued.
Victor's heat treatment trick of expansion and then shrinking upon
cool-down
will work for the situation of securing a female splined sleeve around a
male splined shaft. But I don't think that would work here with a male
splined shaft going into a female splined motor.
Gary Graunke made his adapter for Insight this way - involuted
splines on one end and external on the other (no clutch).
It floats between shafts so no heat shrinking is needed.
I can imagine that there might be a tiny bit of longitudinal play of the
male splined shaft inside the female spline of the motor. So the flywheel
would not be firmly secured to the motor but would in effect be floating on
the longitudinal axis with the motor. I'm not sure that's such a good
thing
to have with the flywheel spinning around at 5000+ RPM.
Any thoughts/ideas on that?
Thanks,
Charles
Siemens 5105 motors have a blinf threaded hole at the end of the shart.
So if you make a hollow adapter you can bolt it to the shaft so it won't
slide out.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
I'm hoping to replace the ICE with an electric directly, keep the belt drive
and all. I'd be real
interested in knowing what you ultimately use. I would be replacing a 20 hp gas
engine that has to
drive the hydrostatic drive, the mowing deck including a blower for the bagger,
and a snow thrower
in the winter. I have a Curse-it controller I hope to use. Electrons provide by
as many NiCads as
I can fit.
Dave Cover
You could try a two-speed contactor controller which would split the
pack into two paralleled series packs for half speed and then switch
over to full series for full speed. It might be helpful to have two
speeds and a contactor controller is pretty darn cheap.
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't worry, you're notthe only one. I've been caught be "damon's law" many
times.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of damon henry
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 10:56 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Almost Submerged the Heavy Metal Garden Tractor!
>
>
>>There's already a remote for the stereo, why not a second one to
>>control the tractor?
>>
>>See Ya.....John Wayland
>>
> That's easy, because everytime you want to adjust the stereo you will only
> be able to find the remote for moving the tractor and everytime you want to
> move the tractor you will only be able to find the remote for adjusting the
> stereo :-)
>
> Let's see there is Murphy's law and Moore's law, but no one seems to have
> lent their name to anything having to do with remote controls. I can't be
> the only one that will spend 20 minutes looking for a remote control so that
> I don't have to take 3 steps to change the channel on the tv.
>
> damon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
***Assume these people are not on the EV List and email your
response directly to their email address below:
-
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 11:43:44 -0600
Subject: We are traveling in VT and trying to locate as much as we
can on EV's..
From: "Bill & Phyllis Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by
earthlink.net.
We produce more electricity on our farm in CA than we are using and
are trying to find and learn about EVs while we are in VT -- who
is knowledgeable or who has EVs? We have solar on the van vehicle
we are living in as we travel, looking for organic farms, EVs and
EV information, water quality improvement using plants, progressive
companies like Interface Carpet in GA.
Can you help direct us to anyone in VT who is knowledgeable or who
has EVs?
Appreciatively,
Phyllis & Bill Davies
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm considering a range extender using a Honda GC engine with a PM
> alternator. The engine would be run on LPG. For me that's the only
> reasonable compromise for using such an engine with no emission
> control hardware.
The last time I checked, it was against the law for individuals to convert
vehicles to run on LPG. You need to be some kind of registered shop and
have the vehicle tested, etc. etc. etc.
This is because running an engine on LPG can produce MORE emmissions than
it does runing on dead dinos unless it's set up properly and apparently
the vast majority of home converters were NOT getting it right.
Personally, I think you're better off using a diesel and either biodiesel
or WVO.
> I think that this totally depends on the usage - "pure" electric
> miles, especially if using renewable energy, are surely vastly
> preferable even to the Insight's low consumption and emission. If the
> polluting range extender is used for only 1 or 2% of the EV's annual
> mileage, does this totally cancel out the rest of the time?
It's possible. I've read numerous times that modern ICEs are so clean that
running a lawnmower for 1 hour produces more pollution than driving
several hundred miles in a new SUV.
> Maybe replacing your gas lawnmower with an electric one to offset your
> range extender is an acceptible compromise :)
My favorite mowers are people powered, but I've lost that arguement with
my wife, so now she uses a corded electric (second best option)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Old time EV building book for sale on Ebay:
Item Number: 7984556279
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And yet it begins for another week.
That timer latch was pursposely set to unlatch. I wanted it that way. And so
do about %40 of my installed base.
The latch as you envision it Chris, may or may not have solved Bill's
dilema. NiCads behave in nastier ways than PbLas do in the thermal runaway
aspect.
Bill was using a rather long hold time,and had hotter batteries that his
"normal cycles"
The time out was too long and the thermal; runaway happened. He had known
this for better than 8 months... for him to allow this "oversight" to
happen a 2nd time... in less than a year.... is Plain foolish.
The first time I felt bad, this time I am simply mad for him dragging me
into this mess again when he clearly knows who set up the charger wrong.
The clear message to the list is "It's summer time" check your chargers and
turn them down if you are getting close to thermal runaway conditions. This
goes for anyone that has a charger that is not thernally compensated or does
not have a battery temp gage or probe to monitor.
After 200 chargers... I have had more than ample to to review wants and
wishes. A latching voltage channel timer is, far from really being needed.
The NiCad boys should have other added support. As I have outlined in past
posts.
But Yes it's going to be added in the next controller PCB turn. If
anyone NEEDS it in the mean time, they need to specify it at the time of
order.
I have flogged this thread for quite a while...
What next???
As for exploding power stages... when the breakers opened violently
twice.... it's VERY clear something was being done very wrong... I was not
there I didn't have scope shots and data loggers on line, so I don't know
why it really died. I do know what the broken parts said.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Another PFC Caution? (was: PDF-20 design flaw) (long)
> Sorry to resurrect this thread - responses today as promised.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul Compton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The motors we use have single row deep groove bearings at
> both ends of the armature. These are quite capable of
> taking thrust loads although the comm end bearing is
> usually able to 'float' in its housing to accommodate
> thermal expansion. The axial rating is approx 25% that of
> the radial loading. To give you an example the Prestolite
> MTC2001 uses a 6206 2RS1 at the drive end which has a
> dynamic radial load rating of 20,300 Newtons
> (approx 4500 lb) which means it can handle over 1000
> pounds of thrust load.
When we rebuilt Gordon's ADC 9", one of my concerns was that perhaps it
was thrust load from the clutch that had caused the bearing to wear
prematurely. So, I looked into what the thrust capability of the stock
bearings were and found that they were more than adequate, as Paul
states. Furthermore, I found that bearings with greater thrust
capability were not able to match the stock bearings' speed capability;
the stock bearings seem to be the best compromise of speed and thrust
load capability.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> That timer latch was pursposely set to unlatch. I wanted it
> that way. And so do about %40 of my installed base.
You've stated more than once that you specifically designed the timer
not to latch; would you mind explaining why?
Even if you have personally found it difficult to get your batteries
into thermal runaway, it is not obvious that having the timer latch
would in any way be detrimental to a normal charge cycle, but it *could*
reduce or prevent battery damage if things did go wrong.
> Your Flaw is a needed feature on MOST of my clents PbLa demands.
Can you clarify why having your finish phase timer restart if the
battery voltage drops after having reached the voltage setpoint is a
"feature" that any client would want, never mind "demand"?
As others have pointed out, it is very difficult to point to any other
PbA (or other chemistry charger) that behaves this way, so it is pretty
clear that this feature is not at all essential to properly charging PbA
batteries...
> Dip Sw #2 is time out from start of charge.
Can you clarify if this feature is in *addition* to the standard timeout
from hitting voltage setpoint feature, or if they are mutually
exclusive? I get the impression that they are mutually exclusive since
people are adding line timers instead of flipping the DIP switch, but
this could be wrong...
If you really have good reason for not latching the finish phase timer,
then adding the ability to limit the maximum charge duration seems like
it would address the immediate concern (as well as cover any number of
other possible unforseen faults) while allowing you to preserve the
finish timer behaviour you prefer. Have your cake and eat it too! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 06:52:51 -0400, "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of toltec
>Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 9:30 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: engine Generator question.
>
>>>Assuming that we have a 1,000 lb EV and we wish to augment the
>>>batteries with an ICE/generator, is there anything out there
>>>that would generate 10KW and burn less than 1 gallon per hour?
>>
>> Sure. The power plants in the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight are more
>> efficient than this. Driving at 60 mph and getting 60 mpg means you are
>> burning 1 gal. per hour. These cars use around 250 watthours per mile;
>> at 60 mph that's 60 x 0.25 = 20 KWH. So they can generate 20 KWH from 1
>> gallon of gasoline.
>
>I know I keep harping on this, but the RotaPower (at
>http://www.freedom-motors.com/ - [standard "I'm not affiliated"
>disclaimer]) advanced wankle engines seem ideally suited for an on-board
>genny... small, high power/weight ratio, few moving parts, multiple
>fuels, pretty efficient, and relatively clean
You're harping on a product that doesn't really exist.
You're comparing the claimed efficiency of the wankel at the
crankshaft vs the overall vehicle efficiency of the Prius.
You're using numbers in both cases that have no foundation in fact.
IOW, you're comparing apples to oranges and the oranges don't even
exist. I guess I don't understand that.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 06:52:45 -0700, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>I'm thinking of a new plan now after the runaway tractor incident. A seat
>switch, first
>and foremost...geesh, I've got them everywhere! Second, a wireless remote
>control that can
>override the seat switch, but one that has to have the button held on for
>travel and where
>the minute it is released, the travel ceases. The remote could also select
>forward or
>reverse.
I was thinking of something simpler. A wired remote throttle
connected to the tractor via a stereo phono plug. That would give you
control at the job site plus if the thing ran away and you're holding
onto the throttle, the phono jack pulls out and the thing stops.
No need for a seat switch that way plus you get to continue working
like you always have.
I might install a seat switch for in case I ever fell off but I'd want
a bypass switch on the dash for the kind of work sessions you
describe.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
brian baumel wrote:
>The motor runs great,
The bearings are more then likely fine then. Is there anyway you can
get access to the brushes to see how much wear they might have?
Even though it's 20 years old, it might very well not even have more
then a few hundred miles on it(if that)?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Folks:
I'm putting my EVcort back together and am down to hooking the accel/regen
cables back up to the potbox.
It's been so long since I pulled my original potbox, I don't even remember
how the cables attached to the actuator-arms.
The cable ends are shaped like a puck, as opposed to a barrel-end, but the
actuator-arms on my new potbox are missing the part that the cable-end is
held by.
Could somebody please take a close pix of the accel cable-end at the
actuator arm and send it to me to help jog my memory?
Sure would appreciate it. Thanks!
Marv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/5/05, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I'm considering a range extender using a Honda GC engine with a PM
> > alternator. The engine would be run on LPG. For me that's the only
> > reasonable compromise for using such an engine with no emission
> > control hardware.
>
> The last time I checked, it was against the law for individuals to convert
> vehicles to run on LPG. You need to be some kind of registered shop and
> have the vehicle tested, etc. etc. etc.
A fair point, but I'm in the UK, not the US, and I actually have
several vehicles registered and insured that I converted myself.
Secondly, with a range extender we're only talking about a generator
really, and the Honda engines are available off the shelf with an LPG
regulator.
> This is because running an engine on LPG can produce MORE emmissions than
> it does runing on dead dinos unless it's set up properly and apparently
> the vast majority of home converters were NOT getting it right.
Could be for vehicles (especially ones without an oxygen sensor), but
this is easier to get right on a fixed load engine. If it's set up to
get maximum current out of the generator without wasting propane, it's
not going to be far wrong.
> Personally, I think you're better off using a diesel and either biodiesel
> or WVO.
I have considered this, but there's a *really* big weight and size
penalty, which means that it wouldn't work in this particular
application. Also, I'm not keen on running a diesel without a
particulate filter. I don't want to breath the exhaust, and don't see
why I should subject anyone else to breathing it either :)
> > I think that this totally depends on the usage - "pure" electric
> > miles, especially if using renewable energy, are surely vastly
> > preferable even to the Insight's low consumption and emission. If the
> > polluting range extender is used for only 1 or 2% of the EV's annual
> > mileage, does this totally cancel out the rest of the time?
>
> It's possible. I've read numerous times that modern ICEs are so clean that
> running a lawnmower for 1 hour produces more pollution than driving
> several hundred miles in a new SUV.
I've read that too, not least here, but I've never really seen any
figures to back it up. Anyone?
>
> > Maybe replacing your gas lawnmower with an electric one to offset your
> > range extender is an acceptible compromise :)
>
> My favorite mowers are people powered, but I've lost that arguement with
> my wife, so now she uses a corded electric (second best option)
My favorite mowers are sheep, but they eat the flowerbeds..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
on 7/5/05 12:38 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I have it translated for me somewhere, I'll dig up that email.
You don't have to put yourself to trouble, Victor. It was just an idle
curiosity on my part.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wrong. The cable ends ARE shaped like a barrel.
It's been too long since I was in that car...
Marv
> Hey Folks:
>
> I'm putting my EVcort back together and am down to hooking the accel/regen
> cables back up to the potbox.
>
> It's been so long since I pulled my original potbox, I don't even remember how
> the cables attached to the actuator-arms.
>
> The cable ends are shaped like a puck, as opposed to a barrel-end, but the
> actuator-arms on my new potbox are missing the part that the cable-end is held
> by.
>
> Could somebody please take a close pix of the accel cable-end at the actuator
> arm and send it to me to help jog my memory?
>
> Sure would appreciate it. Thanks!
>
> Marv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an Escort but my cable ends are barrel type and they push right on to a
ball that bolts to one of the holes on the arm. I've been thinking about
converting it to an integrated pedal/pot box to eliminate the cable cause I
have too much travel on the accellerator.
Gabe.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marvin Campbell<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion<mailto:[email protected]> ; RAV4 EV<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 3:30 PM
Subject: Any EVcort Owners Out There?
Hey Folks:
I'm putting my EVcort back together and am down to hooking the accel/regen
cables back up to the potbox.
It's been so long since I pulled my original potbox, I don't even remember
how the cables attached to the actuator-arms.
The cable ends are shaped like a puck, as opposed to a barrel-end, but the
actuator-arms on my new potbox are missing the part that the cable-end is
held by.
Could somebody please take a close pix of the accel cable-end at the
actuator arm and send it to me to help jog my memory?
Sure would appreciate it. Thanks!
Marv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Our OT discussion of hybrid power reminded me of a posting I have at a site
called bizinnovation.com - the fact that 2-stroke diesels don't work well in
small sizes or without a scavenging exhaust pump might mean this is a no-show,
but here it is:
<<<<<
Title:
A more direct method of converting internal combustion into electricity
Description:
Utilizing a free-piston design, opposite ends with diesel fuel injection and
2-stroke ports.
The power piston is shaped like a long capsule, with hemispheric ends and the
middle third surrounded with either rare earth magnets or coils, while coils
line the inner passage of the engine block. There is only one moving part, no
gears or connecting rods, since the movement of the magnetic field past field
coils generates electricity directly from the movement of the piston.
The piston is free to rotate and reciprocate - piston rings are unneeded, since
blowby will only pass into the opposite combustion chamber or out ports. Ports
in opposite sides of the cylinder wall allow intake and exhaust flow, staggered
with exhaust uncovered first, while length of stroke will be determined by
experimentation to maximize efficiency and completeness of burn.
Choice between magnets or armiture coils will be effected by material used to
fashion the piston - ceramic/silicate will minimize expansion, allowing closer
tolerances and minimizing blowby; also, limiting heat conduction will allow use
of magnets, since these are intolerate of high temperatures. In the presence of
high heat transmission, coils would be preferred, but require more intricate
control.
Fuel is injected by solenoids, but whether adjustable or single volume will be
determined by end use. When used in a hybrid that includes a large enough
capacity battery pack, single output injection would be appropriate. The
ultimate choice may best be established by experimentation, as too will the
amount of cooling needed - it is possible that little more than air-cooling
will be effective, since high efficiency and wide-spread use of ceramics may
minimize the need for this.
Pressurized air flow through the intake may be needed, but can be handled by a
simple positive-displacement blower.
>>>>
I don't think there is any innovation or patentable process here, I was just
"putting it out there" in the hopes someone would tell me definitively whether
it would work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A question for Otmar. As you may know I'm redoing the Aspire to go up to
144v. Trying to find a used 144v 1231 Curtis. But....... If I bought one of
your controllers I'd have headroom to go up in voltage. I just happen to
have 240v of Ni Cads. Just how high will standard motors go?
L91 ADC
8: ADC
9: ADC
11" ADC
Kostov
Big GE like in the Electravans
Prestolites
Others you might mention.
Thanks for the info. It'll make a difference in my controller choice. What
I'm thinking is maybe all I need is a basic Zilla at 156v. The higher
voltage units might be overkill and a waste of money. (maybe not) Personally
I just want to know where a sub 3k pound(2746 pounds) EV at 144 to 156(or
higher)needs to be controller wise. There are advantages of going higher in
voltage I know but at what cost to dependability or safety. I also thought
there were some nice features like controlable voltage and current output.
Anything in. Anything out. Within reason of course that would sort of make
my questions mute or at least controlable.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Title:
>
> A more direct method of converting internal combustion into
electricity
Why not use a diesel rotary rather than piston engine?
RandCam seems interesting, but I see it's gone nowhere....
Just curious.
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roger, Paul and All,
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Paul Compton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > The motors we use have single row deep groove
> bearings at
> > both ends of the armature. These are quite capable
> of
> > taking thrust loads although the comm end bearing
> is
> > usually able to 'float' in its housing to
> accommodate
> > thermal expansion. The axial rating is approx 25%
> that of
> > the radial loading. To give you an example the
> Prestolite
> > MTC2001 uses a 6206 2RS1 at the drive end which
> has a
> > dynamic radial load rating of 20,300 Newtons
> > (approx 4500 lb) which means it can handle over
> 1000
> > pounds of thrust load.
>
> When we rebuilt Gordon's ADC 9", one of my concerns
> was that perhaps it
> was thrust load from the clutch that had caused the
> bearing to wear
> prematurely. So, I looked into what the thrust
> capability of the stock
> bearings were and found that they were more than
> adequate, as Paul
> states. Furthermore, I found that bearings with
> greater thrust
> capability were not able to match the stock
> bearings' speed capability;
> the stock bearings seem to be the best compromise of
> speed and thrust
> load capability.
Yet most motor catalogs specify a different
bearing if the motor is upright, vertical, instead of
horizonal, No?
Why?
The only difference would be the weight of the
armature resting on the lower bearing if faced down in
the vertical one, much less force than a clutch.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yet most motor catalogs specify a different
> bearing if the motor is upright, vertical, instead of horizonal, No?
> Why?
> The only difference would be the weight of the
> armature resting on the lower bearing if faced down in
> the vertical one, much less force than a clutch.
No, another difference could be the type of sealing since a shielded
bearing might be a poor choice for an upright mounted motor but
preferred for the same motor mounted horizontally. If you can provide
an actual example of the two different bearing numbers we could probably
determine if the difference is thrust capability or something else.
I can only speak to the bearings used in the ADC motors that we use in
our EVs. These motors come stock with bearings that *do* support thrust
loads well in excess of the few hundred pounds max associated with a
typical clutch, and as far as I am aware are not available with
alternate bearing choices from the factory (more accurately, from any EV
parts supplier).
If you had an application that subjected an ADC 8" or 9" motor to
unusually large thrust loads *and* did not require high RPM operation,
you could certainly search up a bearing with greater thrust capability
(e.g. an annular ball bearing, IIRC) that would live acceptably at the
lower max RPM of your application.
One possibility for people who use their clutch a lot and are
experiencing short bearing life is that the clutch linkage/adjustment or
flywheel location on the motor shaft may be such that the clutch release
mechanism is pushing *too* far on the pressure plate. That is, it might
have sufficient travel to fully release the clutch and then continue to
travel a bit further such that a heavy foot and sturdy linkage might
allow more thrust load to be applied to the motor than if the release
linkage were properly set up to have just enough travel to fully release
the clutch. Until you fully release the clutch, you can only apply as
much thrust load to the motor as it takes to unload the clutch diaphragm
spring, but once the clutch is fully released the thrust you can apply
is limited only by the strength of the linkage, the strength of your
left leg, and the mechanical advantage of the system.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Using the shorter Netgain Warp 9 impulse would save me some clearance for my
accessory rack. (is the front plate of the old ICE engine (aluminum) which
holds the pulleys, tensioners, A/C, etc). The full sized 9' motors are
going to put me in a tight fit. I need to save this because it doesn't weigh
much and will fit nicely on the motor platform I am making. It is also the
front engine mount. I must have a dual shaft unit to drive this assembly
which runs the serpentine belt system.
I could not find any info on the impulse at their website but need it's
overall length and if it is available as a dual shaft model.
All the photos I could bring up show only one end.
Info appreciated!
Mark Ward
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have a hall-effect sensor here that should work, but
> have yet to find a safe, yet affordable way to hold two
> magnets to my motor's tail shaft?
Affordable is entirely subjective, but I don't know of a slicker way
than this (it is what I am using on my ADC 8"):
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=444&product_id=1
568>
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I found a very informative website that has info on the WarP motors and
more.
Click on- http://www.evsource.com/tls_impulse.php
Good luck!
Richard Rau
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Ward
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 6:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
Using the shorter Netgain Warp 9 impulse would save me some clearance for my
accessory rack. (is the front plate of the old ICE engine (aluminum) which
holds the pulleys, tensioners, A/C, etc). The full sized 9' motors are
going to put me in a tight fit. I need to save this because it doesn't weigh
much and will fit nicely on the motor platform I am making. It is also the
front engine mount. I must have a dual shaft unit to drive this assembly
which runs the serpentine belt system.
I could not find any info on the impulse at their website but need it's
overall length and if it is available as a dual shaft model.
All the photos I could bring up show only one end.
Info appreciated!
Mark Ward
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 1:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: engine Generator question. Re: Jerry
Stu or Jan wrote:
> What is the number for the ICE to multiply .81 in order to calculate
> overall efficiency? Would the ICE/GEN/Motor be more efficient or
> less efficient for range extension than an ICE/drivetrain setup?
The peak efficiency is better if you mechanically connect the ICE's
power to the drive wheels. A transmission's efficiency can be 95% or
better.
However, the ICE's efficiency varies dramatically depending on load.
Unless you load it at its "sweet spot" speed, efficiency suffers. In
contrast, electric motors have a wider range of power levels at which
they still provide high efficiency.
So, while the peak is higher with a transmission, the average is better
with the electric motor/generator setup.
--
Lee,
We begin the comparison of direct ICE to ICE/GEN with a 10% to 20% deficit
and an additional 100 lb or so in 10KW generator weight.
Are you saying that that the ICE/GEN will overcome the weight and the ~15%
efficiency deficit and come out a winner? By how much?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah I forgot to check Ryan's website. I was looking at Netgain's webpage.
It looks like it might develop a bit less horsepower but would save me a lot
of space.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
Mark,
I found a very informative website that has info on the WarP motors and
more.
Click on- http://www.evsource.com/tls_impulse.php
Good luck!
Richard Rau
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Ward
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 6:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
Using the shorter Netgain Warp 9 impulse would save me some clearance for
my
accessory rack. (is the front plate of the old ICE engine (aluminum) which
holds the pulleys, tensioners, A/C, etc). The full sized 9' motors are
going to put me in a tight fit. I need to save this because it doesn't
weigh
much and will fit nicely on the motor platform I am making. It is also
the
front engine mount. I must have a dual shaft unit to drive this assembly
which runs the serpentine belt system.
I could not find any info on the impulse at their website but need it's
overall length and if it is available as a dual shaft model.
All the photos I could bring up show only one end.
Info appreciated!
Mark Ward
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If Prestolites were the choice of one decade, and ADC/Curtis were of the 90's,
what is the EV conversion design for this decade? I've been reading the posts
for the last few months. The experts on the digest describe many advances over
the simple ADC/Curtis designs described in Bob Brant's book of '94. I
certainly not able to design and select components on my own. I need someone
like Brant again to define the modern EV conversion with progress of the last
10 years. Is there such as source for one stop information?
Lance Smith No. Cal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
> Hi all,
> Just need some quick advice. I have a 9" GE motor that
> has been sitting in an EV is some guy's back yard in
> Arkansas for about 20 yrs. The motor runs great, I've
> taken the car around the block already, but I figured
> there may be some sort of maintenance that should be
> done to it after sitting so long. So I took the serial
> number into a local motor repair shop and they want to
> charge me $510 for some work they feel should be done
Hi Brian;
Grab that motor and RUN from that guy!! Think about it. The motor runs
smoothly, and is a simple EV device. Havya EVer had a starter motor apart
for a gas car? OK you have a pretty good idea what to expect IF ya take it
apart. OK Pull the brush cover, look in there, ya see the carbon brushes,
pressed onto the Comm. by curlicue springy things. How are they, not rusted
through or cruddy? Right, now with, maybe a small needle nose pliers grab
the "pigtail" of each brush. Is it free to move, the BRUSH, I mean, pigtail
is a way to grab hold of the brush, for our purposes.Are ALL the brushes
free to move up in down in the holders?Good! They all slide easily? OK yur
good to go, IF comm is clean, ya said that the motor runs smoothly, so I
would imagine, the end bearings are good. IF yur consience is nagging you,
ok ,go ahead replace the two bearings and you have " Overhauled "the motor!
Hows the varnish insulation? If it is cracked or crispy, I wouldn't think
so?After all ya gotta love a simple beasty that is willing to last a
lifetine in your conversion or ground up EV. BTW those old GE's are just
about bulletproof, can be a family hairloom<g>!
If you MUST, of course, ship or drive it to Warfield Electric in
Frankfort Ill. They are about the biggest DC motor remanufacturing and motor
builder, for EV's the famous Warp Motor ya see on here all the time. OK If
yur a newbee? WELCOME ABOARD!! This is why we're here. Nobody interested in
EV's should go it alone, friends don't let friends, all that.
OK anybody ELSE? I went off the deep end but I want Brian to save his
500 bux for a Zilla a s....tload of new batteries.
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don and Everyone,
Anyone have a torque/RPM graph of a netgain Warp 11" motor?
Yep, posted on the 11" WarP motor page in the EV Source Top-Line Shop,
right here:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_warp11.php
This one doesn't have the data actually plotted, but I think it's easier
to read in spreadsheet format anyways. You can download the excel file
and plot the data yourself if that's how you prefer it.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and Netgain WarP motors at great prices!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the brushes look fine and I have an extra set... I
doubt there is many miles on it. the motor was new
when installed in 82 and the odometer is currently at
15 mi....
Brian B.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> brian baumel wrote:
>
> >The motor runs great,
>
> The bearings are more then likely fine then. Is
> there anyway you can
> get access to the brushes to see how much wear they
> might have?
>
> Even though it's 20 years old, it might very well
> not even have more
> then a few hundred miles on it(if that)?
>
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
