EV Digest 4479
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Warp 11" Torque/RPM graph
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: engine Generator question. Re: Lee Hart
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Thunder-Sky Straps
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Warp 11" Torque/RPM graph
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Venturi Fetish video
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Rules of thumb for engine, Generator Eff ...
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Thunder-Sky Straps
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Rules of thumb for engine, Generator Eff ...
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: List Meta Request
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Pollution in small engines, Re: Rules of thumb for engine, Generator Eff
...
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Thermal runaway (was: RE: Another PFC Caution?)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Rules of thumb for engine, Generator Eff ...
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Any EVcort Owners Out There?
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) What does the Prius use as the power divider?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Need Info on Netgain Impulse - shat diameter?
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Need Info on Netgain Impulse - shat diameter?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by James Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Ryan, I missed that completely!
A couple of questions:
- what is the max voltage for this motor? (I suppose there is a continuous
and a peak voltage rating)
- will it generate more torque if voltage is at its continuous/peak? Can I
simply multiply your spreadsheet by a factor?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Bohm
Sent: July 5, 2005 9:09 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: Warp 11" Torque/RPM graph
Hi Don and Everyone,
>Anyone have a torque/RPM graph of a netgain Warp 11" motor?
>
>
>
Yep, posted on the 11" WarP motor page in the EV Source Top-Line Shop, right
here:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_warp11.php
This one doesn't have the data actually plotted, but I think it's easier to
read in spreadsheet format anyways. You can download the excel file and
plot the data yourself if that's how you prefer it.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and Netgain WarP motors at great prices!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
> Lee,
>
> We begin the comparison of direct ICE to ICE/GEN with a 10% to 20%
> deficit and an additional 100 lb or so in 10KW generator weight.
> Are you saying that that the ICE/GEN will overcome the weight and
> the ~15% efficiency deficit and come out a winner?
Yes; I'm saying that it can. And it does, in some examples (such as
diesel-electric locomotives and the Toyota Prius).
> By how much?
That is a much harder question to answer. It all depends on the details
of how the systems are built, and how you drive them.
If you spend all your time cruising at constant speed on the highway,
then having the ICE directly drive the wheels via an appropriate
transmission will win.
If you do lots of stop-and-go driving, then the ICE-generator-motor
bybrid will win.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What kind of car was it in?
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are "a little bit different now
and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
the brushes look fine and I have an extra set... I
doubt there is many miles on it. the motor was new
when installed in 82 and the odometer is currently at
15 mi....
Brian B.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
brian baumel wrote:
>The motor runs great,
The bearings are more then likely fine then. Is
there anyway you can
get access to the brushes to see how much wear they
might have?
Even though it's 20 years old, it might very well
not even have more
then a few hundred miles on it(if that)?
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve wrote:
> My only comment is the straps have to be strong and tight.
Would those nylon straps with the little winch work, or couldn't I get them
tight enough?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A quick look at the data shows that this motor delivers about 25%
more torque than the ADC 9-inch when compared at the same
current. At 440 amperes the ADC produces 100 ft-lb; the 11-inch
Warp produces 125 ft-lb.
It's a shame that the spreadsheet doesn't include data at voltages other
than 72 volts. But you can approximate speeds at other voltages by
assuming that speed will be proportional to voltage.
It's too late tonight to compare this data to ADC 9-inch data. Maybe
I will in a day or two
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Warp 11" Torque/RPM graph
Hi Don and Everyone,
Anyone have a torque/RPM graph of a netgain Warp 11" motor?
Yep, posted on the 11" WarP motor page in the EV Source Top-Line Shop,
right here:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_warp11.php
This one doesn't have the data actually plotted, but I think it's easier
to read in spreadsheet format anyways. You can download the excel file
and plot the data yourself if that's how you prefer it.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and Netgain WarP motors at great prices!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Towards the end of this program (at 18:49 minutes into it):
http://www.mininova.org/tor/46195
Amazing how quiet Ev's are after being around gas and diesel powered
vehicles for so long..
Video is very clear full screen. No need to watch it in a 4" square window.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Jul 2005 at 11:00, Evan Tuer wrote:
> If the
> polluting range extender is used for only 1 or 2% of the EV's annual
> mileage, does this totally cancel out the rest of the time?
Maybe, but how many people really use the ICE that little? There are some,
and I salute them, but let's look at a more typical driver.
Now, mind you, I'm no engineer, and I welcome corrections to the reckoning
below, but I think it's in the ballpark.
Suppose you drive 15,000 miles per year. Let's be realistic and say that
about half that will be electric miles. (That's a 30 mile round-trip
commute, 5 days a week, 50 weeks each year, rather typical for a conversion
EV.)
For the sake of simplicity, we'll assume the EV is powered with solar
generated electricity, so we can neglect the smokestack emissions
attributable to charging our EV. We'll let it be a true ZEV. (Never mind
how rare this is - it's possible. ;-)
Let's assume that we're going to use an industrial or other nonautomotive
engine to power a range extender for the other 7,500 miles. Let's make it
easy and let them all be highway miles at around 60 mph, requiring a steady
10kw of power to keep the vehicle running. We'll use no solar electricity
for this part of our driving. (In practice, a small part of it might be,
but I'm trying to keep this simple.)
Thus we'll operate the range extender for 125 hours at 10kW, for a total
expended energy of 1,250 kWh.
EPA standards:
Industrial spark ignition engines over 19kw (2004 standard)
HC+NOx = 4 g/kWh
CO = 50 g kWh
Snowmobile engine (2006)
HC = 100 g/kWh (!!!)
CO = 275 g/kWh (!!!)
(http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/2002/f02037.pdf)
I had some trouble understanding the automotive charts below. If anybody
here can make more sense of them than I did, please post corrections.
EPA Tier 1 standard for passenger cars (50,000 mile warranty???)
Composite NMHC* + NOx = 0.65 g/mile
A/C test CO = 3.0 g/mile
EPA Tier 1 ULEV standard for passenger cars (4000 mile warranty???)
Composite NMHC* + NOx = 0.14 g/mile
A/C test CO = 2.7 g/mile
(http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/veh-cert/b00001c.pdf)
EPA ULEV-II standard:
NMOG** = 0.055 g/mile
Composite NMHC equivalent = 0.053 g/mi **
NOx = 0.07 g/mi
Composite NMHC + NOx = 0.12 g/mi (calculated)
CO = 2.1 g/mi
EPA PZEV / light duty SULEV-II
NMOG** = 0.01 g/mi
Composite NMHC equivalent = 0.0096 g/mi **
NOx = 0.02 g/mi
Composite NMHC + NOx = 0.03 g/mi (calculated)
CO = 1.0 g/mi
*NMHC = Nonmethane Hydrocarbons (no idea how this compares to plain vanilla
hydrocarbons)
**NMOG = Nonmethane Organic Gases: 1.04 * NMHC = NMOG
(http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/0-10chart.htm)
Keep in mind that the industrial and off-road standards are NOT actually in
effect yet; older engines will be significantly dirtier. The EPA indicates
that the industrial engine standards apply to generators, and I haven't
found a separate category for portable gensets, so let's assume they cover
gensets that EVers might tow behind a vehicle. (Lots of assumptions here,
sorry!)
So here is how much we'll emit using brand-new industrial engines, a
snowmobile engine, and variouis automobiles:
Snowmobile engine (2006 standard), 1,250 kWh, 7500 mi:
125kg HC
344kg CO
(Industrial engine (2004 standard), 1,250 kWh, 7500 mi:
5kg HC+NOx
62.5kg CO
EPA says the 2004 industrial engines represent a 71% reduction in HC, 80%
reduction of NOx, and 57% reduction in CO. So for an older genset - we get
roughly
20kg HC+NOx (hey, I said it was approximate ;-)
145kg CO
(I tried to find motorcycle engine standards, but all the links on that page
of the EPA's website were broken.)
Tier 1 passenger car, 7500 miles:
4.9kg Composite NMHC + NOx
22.5kg CO
ULEV passenger car, 7500 miles:
1.1kg Composite NMHC + NOx
20.3kg CO
ULEV-II passenger car, 7500 miles:
0.9kg Composite NMHC + NOx
15.8kg CO
PZEV / SULEV-II car (2004+ Prius), 7500 miles
0.23kg composite NMHC + NOx
7.5kg CO
So over our 7500 mile year, compared to the cleanest ICE (2004/5 Prius),
=> The 2006 standard snowmobile engine range extender emits
543 times as much HC
46 times as much CO
=> The pre-2004 industrial generator engine RE emits
87 times as much HC
19 times as much CO
=> The 2004 standard industrial generator engine RE emits
22 times as much HC
8 times as much CO
Again I admit that I've made some sweeping assumptions, and also rolled NOx
into some figures and not into others. (Give me a break; the EPA's
documentation does NOT make this easy.) I've already spent WAY too much
time on this, but if someone wants to put more time into correcting my
figures, I'd strongly encourage him or her to have at it and to post the
results.
Meanwhile, I think the figures above, while showing an abominable degree of
false precision ;-), give you a pretty good idea why a person who is
interested in reducing his personal contribution to air pollution (and again
I realize this isn't a priority for everyone here) will probably do so more
effectively by using a dedicated EV for short trips, and a highly efficient
dedicated ICE for long trips.
Whew!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure about that. I don't know how much they actually expand once charged.
The nylon straps with a winch will make your cells more difficult to fit in a
battery box. May be Dennis D or Victor can comment.
Steve
Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Steve wrote:
> My only comment is the straps have to be strong and tight.
Would those nylon straps with the little winch work, or couldn't I get them
tight enough?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/6/05, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2005 at 11:00, Evan Tuer wrote:
>
> > If the
> > polluting range extender is used for only 1 or 2% of the EV's annual
> > mileage, does this totally cancel out the rest of the time?
>
> Maybe, but how many people really use the ICE that little? There are some,
> and I salute them, but let's look at a more typical driver.
>
> Now, mind you, I'm no engineer, and I welcome corrections to the reckoning
> below, but I think it's in the ballpark.
>
> Suppose you drive 15,000 miles per year. Let's be realistic and say that
> about half that will be electric miles. (That's a 30 mile round-trip
> commute, 5 days a week, 50 weeks each year, rather typical for a conversion
> EV.)
>
[cut]
> So over our 7500 mile year, compared to the cleanest ICE (2004/5 Prius),
> => The 2004 standard industrial generator engine RE emits
>
> 22 times as much HC
> 8 times as much CO
>
[cut]
> Meanwhile, I think the figures above, while showing an abominable degree of
> false precision ;-), give you a pretty good idea why a person who is
> interested in reducing his personal contribution to air pollution (and again
> I realize this isn't a priority for everyone here) will probably do so more
> effectively by using a dedicated EV for short trips, and a highly efficient
> dedicated ICE for long trips.
Wow, that must have taken a while! Thanks for proving the point. And
the snowmobile engine figures are just shocking, are they 2-stroke or
something?
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm confused... If I hit reply to a message rather than type the address
by hand or go through my long list of addresses, delete the text, and change
the subject line, the email program still thinks it's part of the same
thread? To me, the messages look exactly the same, whichever way I do it.
I don't even see the headers, much less know what's in them (or would know
what was in them even if I could see them). I'm not a computer guru, just a
user.
Dave
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: List Meta Request
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:38:25 -0700
That's the point - you do this, chane the subject,
but email program treats it as the same thread since the header
didn't change.
New thread ideally should have new header, but with your
method it won't.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David, Evan and All,
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 7/6/05, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 5 Jul 2005 at 11:00, Evan Tuer wrote:
> >
> > > If the
> > > polluting range extender is used for only 1 or
> 2% of the EV's annual
> > > mileage, does this totally cancel out the rest
> of the time?
> >
> > Maybe, but how many people really use the ICE that
> little? There are some,
> > and I salute them, but let's look at a more
> typical driver.
Those are MINIMIUM standards, most do much
better than that.
What a small engine puts out pollution wise
depends on many factors.
A major thing is to tune it up with a 3 gas
analyzer so it's running the correct fuel mixture. One
could buy an O sensor and hook it up to a meter to but
I'm not exactly sure how to read it. These analyzers
are fairly cheap now or you can go to a shop that has
one and can cut unburned HC, NOx by 90% or more
depending on what you start with.
Nox can be greatly reduced by water injection
if that's a problem but rarely is on these motors as
it comes from hot, lean mixtures which are not normal.
Water cooling helps this too keeping head temps even.
Only use OHV engines!!!
Also an engine running at a set speed is easy
to cut emissions on as it's variable speed, starting
problems where the emissions problems come from.
Hence my suggestions to use a better carb,
raise the compression ratio, use an electronic igntion
and advance it, even those that only cost $5 that
replace points help a hole lot extending the spark
period and making it hotter. Any good go cart shop can
do these things if you don't want to do them yourself.
But the MC motors already have these so with a
good tune up, can produce power at fairly low
emissions, especially the water cooled ones.
I was amazed at the comments made that propane
makes more pollution. Any fuel that is set too rich
will make more pollution but I'd hope those doing this
know how to set fuel mixtures correctly as it not only
make many times less pollution, but uses much less
fuel!!
If nothing else, just adjust the mixture screw
on any fuel to lean it out until it sputters, then
back it off until it just smooths out gives you the
correct fuel mixture though with insturments it can be
even more accurate. If you get black smoke, you are
way too rich!! Go the other way.
Due to the low power needs we are forced to use
small engines but that doesn't mean we should blindly
use them, but use them with care picked for or
modified to get low pollution levels, it's not rocket
science.
It's mostly racing tech for eff also give the
lowest pollution levels within reason. That's how
Detroit finally got their pollution under control,
hotrodding them, tightening tolerances, after their
diasterous start in the 70's. We can do the same as
should.
And with my 70-100mile range, I expect to use my
range extender only for crosscountry trips, thus
rarely. Also as soon as ethanol is available I'll
switch to it to lower pollution a lot more when done
right.
> >
> > Now, mind you, I'm no engineer, and I welcome
> corrections to the reckoning
> > below, but I think it's in the ballpark.
> >
> > Suppose you drive 15,000 miles per year. Let's be
> realistic and say that
> > about half that will be electric miles. (That's a
That sounds very pesimistic and only with a low
range EV as most, even conversions, will do 30 miles
without ever using a gen. And way over the US trip
average of about 10 miles.
> 30 mile round-trip
> > commute, 5 days a week, 50 weeks each year, rather
> typical for a conversion
> > EV.)
> >
>
> [cut]
> > So over our 7500 mile year, compared to the
> cleanest ICE (2004/5 Prius),
>
> > => The 2004 standard industrial generator
> engine RE emits
> >
> > 22 times as much HC
> > 8 times as much CO
> >
>
> [cut]
>
> > Meanwhile, I think the figures above, while
> showing an abominable degree of
> > false precision ;-), give you a pretty good idea
> why a person who is
> > interested in reducing his personal contribution
> to air pollution (and again
> > I realize this isn't a priority for everyone here)
> will probably do so more
> > effectively by using a dedicated EV for short
> trips, and a highly efficient
> > dedicated ICE for long trips.
>
> Wow, that must have taken a while! Thanks for
> proving the point. And
> the snowmobile engine figures are just shocking, are
> they 2-stroke or
> something?
I think David just put out the worst case vs what
can be as I put out and how I'll do mine.
I'd have to guess that they are 2 strokes but now
many snowmobile engines too are 4 stroke or much
improved 2 stroke just as outboards are now, another
source of lightweight, low polluting water cooled
motors.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Regards
> Evan
>
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob, Brian and All,
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:52 AM
> Subject: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > Just need some quick advice. I have a 9" GE motor
> that
> > has been sitting in an EV is some guy's back yard
> in
> > Arkansas for about 20 yrs. The motor runs great,
> I've
> > taken the car around the block already, but I
> figured
> > there may be some sort of maintenance that should
> be
> > done to it after sitting so long. So I took the
> serial
> > number into a local motor repair shop and they
> want to
> > charge me $510 for some work they feel should be
> done
>
> Hi Brian;
>
> Grab that motor and RUN from that guy!! Think
Yes, run as fast as you can!! He is just trying
to rip you off.
Go back to last wee and read Jim Husted's post on
overhauling e motors, they are quite easy to take
apart, do simple repair though they are rarely needed
in a smooth running motor.
I've aways been of the if it isn't broke, don't
fix it school of thought which should apply here. At
most if you want, order some new, maybe better
brushes from Jim if he thinks you need better ones. I
say this as on my 40 yr old citi car GE motor had
coroded brush leads but it may have been underwater in
a flood or 2.
But removing the brushes is quite easy as Bob
says below what to watch out for and make sure it goes
back in the way it came out. If the brush leads are in
good shape, just put it back in and enjoy you new to
you motor!!
So save yourself some money as Bob says for the
other things you will need though you may find many
other things in the old EV worth reusing like
contactors, ect.
If you ever do need repairs, just send the part
to the shop like the fields, armature, ect for it's
repair and you'll save much money and learn something.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> about it. The motor runs
> smoothly, and is a simple EV device. Havya EVer had
> a starter motor apart
> for a gas car? OK you have a pretty good idea what
> to expect IF ya take it
> apart. OK Pull the brush cover, look in there, ya
> see the carbon brushes,
> pressed onto the Comm. by curlicue springy things.
> How are they, not rusted
> through or cruddy? Right, now with, maybe a small
> needle nose pliers grab
> the "pigtail" of each brush. Is it free to move, the
> BRUSH, I mean, pigtail
> is a way to grab hold of the brush, for our
> purposes.Are ALL the brushes
> free to move up in down in the holders?Good! They
> all slide easily? OK yur
> good to go, IF comm is clean, ya said that the motor
> runs smoothly, so I
> would imagine, the end bearings are good. IF yur
> consience is nagging you,
> ok ,go ahead replace the two bearings and you have "
> Overhauled "the motor!
> Hows the varnish insulation? If it is cracked or
> crispy, I wouldn't think
> so?After all ya gotta love a simple beasty that is
> willing to last a
> lifetine in your conversion or ground up EV. BTW
> those old GE's are just
> about bulletproof, can be a family hairloom<g>!
>
> If you MUST, of course, ship or drive it to
> Warfield Electric in
> Frankfort Ill. They are about the biggest DC motor
> remanufacturing and motor
> builder, for EV's the famous Warp Motor ya see on
> here all the time. OK If
> yur a newbee? WELCOME ABOARD!! This is why we're
> here. Nobody interested in
> EV's should go it alone, friends don't let friends,
> all that.
>
> OK anybody ELSE? I went off the deep end but I
> want Brian to save his
> 500 bux for a Zilla a s....tload of new batteries.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
>
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/
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--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> And yet it begins for another week.
Aw c'mon Rich, think of these as teachable moments. ;^)
At this point I, and probably others, am having a difficult time
understanding some subtleties here. While I feel for Bill and his wounded
NiCd pack, in the grand scheme of things we need to keep this discussion
focused on lead.
I did some surfing last night to try to understand the mechanics of thermal
runaway. I didn't have much luck. I get the basics - batteries heat up,
resistance drops, current rises, batteries heat up more, repeat until
meltdown.
Question 1: What I couldn't find any info on is how the charger affects the
cycle. If you're in runaway before you hit constant voltage, the
timer-on-constant-voltage will obviously do you no good. But what's the
probability of a thermal runaway during bulk charge? If it happens in the
constant voltage phase, can the pack voltage drop to the point where the
timer resets? It apparently did on Bill's pack, is it possible with lead?
> That timer latch was pursposely set to unlatch. I wanted it that way. And
> so
> do about %40 of my installed base.
Question 2: What advantage is realized by allowing the timer to unlatch if
the voltage drops? Who are these 40% of your installed base?
Question 3 (the big one for me): Since thermal runaway is an unlikely but
very expensive possibility, what is the best way for me to prevent it in my
120 V flooded lead-acid pack? Will the time-from-constant-voltage timer on
my PFC-20 suffice, or do I need a separate timer in the charger line cord?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Wow, that must have taken a while! Thanks for proving the point. And the
> snowmobile engine figures are just shocking, are they 2-stroke or something?
>
> Regards
> Evan
>
Yes, those are 2 strokes. There are very few 4 stroke snowmobile models
available. Though more are becoming available
every year.
Snowmobiles are dirty, noisy, gas sucking, pollution belching pigs!!
They sure are fun though!!!
Don't even consider a 2 stroke for any range extender. There are way too many
small 4 strokes available to even think
about using a 2 stroke.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mine has a ball-ended rod (.25") which screws into the arm. A ball-socket
was on the rod end ball on the arm. Screwed into the other end of the
ball-socket was the barrel-ended cable holder.
Really common throttle arrangement, but I can't seem to find it. Did find
some stainless/AL ball sockets in McMaster Carr.
Marv
> From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:18:39 -0700
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Any EVcort Owners Out There?
>
> I have an Escort but my cable ends are barrel type and they push right on to a
> ball that bolts to one of the holes on the arm. I've been thinking about
> converting it to an integrated pedal/pot box to eliminate the cable cause I
> have too much travel on the accellerator.
> Gabe.
> ----- O
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the dimensions of a Warp 9 dual shaft motor:
The main body is 9 inches in diameter.
The overall diameter is 9.5 inches with field bolts on the surface of the body.
The motor body length is 15-7/8 inch long.
The pilot shaft protrudes 2-1/8 inch from face of motor and is 7/8 inches in
diameter and is bolt thread tapped.
The drive shaft protrudes 2 inches from the face and is 1-1/4 inches in
diameter drill for a transmission pilot bushing.
This makes the overall length of 20 inches.
I do not have the adapter dimensions yet, as it about to be deliver to me any
minute now.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Ward<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 7:41 PM
Subject: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
Using the shorter Netgain Warp 9 impulse would save me some clearance for my
accessory rack. (is the front plate of the old ICE engine (aluminum) which
holds the pulleys, tensioners, A/C, etc). The full sized 9' motors are
going to put me in a tight fit. I need to save this because it doesn't weigh
much and will fit nicely on the motor platform I am making. It is also the
front engine mount. I must have a dual shaft unit to drive this assembly
which runs the serpentine belt system.
I could not find any info on the impulse at their website but need it's
overall length and if it is available as a dual shaft model.
All the photos I could bring up show only one end.
Info appreciated!
Mark Ward
www.saabrina.blogspot.com<http://www.saabrina.blogspot.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may need to do nothing at all. If you want grab a pic or two of the comm.
and brushes and send them to me and I'll take a look. A motor number would be
nice also. Just so some of you know certain GE motors can run me over $20.00
per brush and that's X 4. I'd be more than happy to look at some pic's and see
what if anything needs to be done here. If in fact the bearings and brushes do
need to be replaced later in life when you said you'd like to do it it will
probably run you around $100.00 to 150.00 for the parts no matter where you get
them just do to they are probably the larger GE brushes. A pic or even a motor
number.would tell me what brush. Chances are your motor is still in great
shape.
Good luck.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Bob, Brian and All,
--- Bob Rice wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brian baumel"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:52 AM
> Subject: 20 yr old 9" DC motor
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > Just need some quick advice. I have a 9" GE motor
> that
> > has been sitting in an EV is some guy's back yard
> in
> > Arkansas for about 20 yrs. The motor runs great,
> I've
> > taken the car around the block already, but I
> figured
> > there may be some sort of maintenance that should
> be
> > done to it after sitting so long. So I took the
> serial
> > number into a local motor repair shop and they
> want to
> > charge me $510 for some work they feel should be
> done
>
> Hi Brian;
>
> Grab that motor and RUN from that guy!! Think
Yes, run as fast as you can!! He is just trying
to rip you off.
Go back to last wee and read Jim Husted's post on
overhauling e motors, they are quite easy to take
apart, do simple repair though they are rarely needed
in a smooth running motor.
I've aways been of the if it isn't broke, don't
fix it school of thought which should apply here. At
most if you want, order some new, maybe better
brushes from Jim if he thinks you need better ones. I
say this as on my 40 yr old citi car GE motor had
coroded brush leads but it may have been underwater in
a flood or 2.
But removing the brushes is quite easy as Bob
says below what to watch out for and make sure it goes
back in the way it came out. If the brush leads are in
good shape, just put it back in and enjoy you new to
you motor!!
So save yourself some money as Bob says for the
other things you will need though you may find many
other things in the old EV worth reusing like
contactors, ect.
If you ever do need repairs, just send the part
to the shop like the fields, armature, ect for it's
repair and you'll save much money and learn something.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> about it. The motor runs
> smoothly, and is a simple EV device. Havya EVer had
> a starter motor apart
> for a gas car? OK you have a pretty good idea what
> to expect IF ya take it
> apart. OK Pull the brush cover, look in there, ya
> see the carbon brushes,
> pressed onto the Comm. by curlicue springy things.
> How are they, not rusted
> through or cruddy? Right, now with, maybe a small
> needle nose pliers grab
> the "pigtail" of each brush. Is it free to move, the
> BRUSH, I mean, pigtail
> is a way to grab hold of the brush, for our
> purposes.Are ALL the brushes
> free to move up in down in the holders?Good! They
> all slide easily? OK yur
> good to go, IF comm is clean, ya said that the motor
> runs smoothly, so I
> would imagine, the end bearings are good. IF yur
> consience is nagging you,
> ok ,go ahead replace the two bearings and you have "
> Overhauled "the motor!
> Hows the varnish insulation? If it is cracked or
> crispy, I wouldn't think
> so?After all ya gotta love a simple beasty that is
> willing to last a
> lifetine in your conversion or ground up EV. BTW
> those old GE's are just
> about bulletproof, can be a family hairloom!
>
> If you MUST, of course, ship or drive it to
> Warfield Electric in
> Frankfort Ill. They are about the biggest DC motor
> remanufacturing and motor
> builder, for EV's the famous Warp Motor ya see on
> here all the time. OK If
> yur a newbee? WELCOME ABOARD!! This is why we're
> here. Nobody interested in
> EV's should go it alone, friends don't let friends,
> all that.
>
> OK anybody ELSE? I went off the deep end but I
> want Brian to save his
> 500 bux for a Zilla a s....tload of new batteries.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone know the details of how the engine and the motor are connected to the
driveline?
Also, 110 pounds of batteries? What is their Ah rating?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:51:35 -0600
Here is the dimensions of a Warp 9 dual shaft motor:
The main body is 9 inches in diameter.
The overall diameter is 9.5 inches with field bolts on the surface of the
body.
The motor body length is 15-7/8 inch long.
The pilot shaft protrudes 2-1/8 inch from face of motor and is 7/8 inches
in diameter and is bolt thread tapped.
The drive shaft protrudes 2 inches from the face and is 1-1/4 inches in
diameter drill for a transmission pilot bushing.
Since the ADC 8 and 9, and the Warp 8 and 9 all have 1 1/8 inch shafts, are
you sure the Impulse's shaft is 1 1/4 diameter? ( or, is this just a typo?)
Phil
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi list,
I have been offered a 92 Mazda Protégé. The price is right (free). It's
been parked for several years, and it did run when it was parked. It needed
a water pump, at the time. The code enforcer has given him till this
weekend to get it off of his property, so either I get it or the local bone
yard does. The body is in excellent shape. I didn't try to start it, as I
don't care if it runs, but the clutch is stuck. What do you folks think....
Is this a god car to do? Have any of you converted one?
Best
Chris Seeley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Free is not always the best, I think there is a consensus about that in this
forum.
It sounds like it might be good, but depends on overall condition. If you
have to do body or interior work it can affect both the cost and your
perception of the project.
I would be looking at the suspension, braking system, what power equipment
you may still have to drive, battery capacity, etc. I rejected several
vehicles before adopting my Saab not only for some of the reasons I just
mentioned but because I can't commit time and money to anything I won't
absolutely love when it is done. They all have some strengths and
weaknesses. In my case I have more power equipment to deal with and have to
deal with the issues presented by an electronic controlled transmission, but
this was outweighed by having an originally $30,xxx plus ( pristine body
wise )vehicle as a donor car. The less than $1000 I spent for my car to be
happy with it (and have my wife like it) will be worth it to me. I am
enjoying every minute of the project!
So it depends....if you love it, go for it!
Mark Ward
"ElectroSaab"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:28 AM
Subject: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
Hi list,
I have been offered a 92 Mazda Protégé. The price is right (free). It's
been parked for several years, and it did run when it was parked. It
needed
a water pump, at the time. The code enforcer has given him till this
weekend to get it off of his property, so either I get it or the local
bone
yard does. The body is in excellent shape. I didn't try to start it, as
I
don't care if it runs, but the clutch is stuck. What do you folks
think....
Is this a god car to do? Have any of you converted one?
Best
Chris Seeley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris, sounds exciting.
Try not to get distracted by the price or the opportunity. Pick a car that
you really like, because you will be spending a lot of time working on it,
putting a lot of cash into it, and then a lot of time driving it. Make sure
everything else works: electrical, brakes, suspension, etc. Last thing you
need is to put a bunch of cash into the car converting it, then find that it
needs a brake job, and some shocks and the lights don't work, etc.
I am sceptical, if all it has is a broken $40 water pump, I do not see much
reason for the owner to abandon it. Maybe the motor is busted - maybe more
things are broken as well.
What kind of car do you like? What do you think would make a great electric
car? What kind of a car are you willing to spend $5000-10000 converting?
Maybe a sporty RX7 or a Civic. Maybe a classic VW Bug or a Datsun 510.
Maybe a nice sedan. Whatever it is, pick the car you like, don't let the
car pick you. It happens to be a 323, then so be it. But what I hear in
your message is opportunity, cheap price and "its gotta be done right away".
Once you have a car in mind, go and search for it. Find one that has good
interior, body, electrical and other parts.
Don
P.S. If you live near me, I have an 85 RX7 flyer you can have for free.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Seeley
Sent: July 6, 2005 6:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
Hi list,
I have been offered a 92 Mazda Protégé. The price is right (free). It's
been parked for several years, and it did run when it was parked. It needed
a water pump, at the time. The code enforcer has given him till this
weekend to get it off of his property, so either I get it or the local bone
yard does. The body is in excellent shape. I didn't try to start it, as I
don't care if it runs, but the clutch is stuck. What do you folks think....
Is this a god car to do? Have any of you converted one?
Best
Chris Seeley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Its 1-1/8 diameter. On the same blueprint, I have my GE motor dimension
overlay over the Warp 9 which has the larger drive shaft diameter.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip Marino<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Need Info on Netgain Impulse - shat diameter?
>From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>Reply-To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>Subject: Re: Need Info on Netgain Impulse
>Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:51:35 -0600
>
>Here is the dimensions of a Warp 9 dual shaft motor:
>
>The main body is 9 inches in diameter.
>The overall diameter is 9.5 inches with field bolts on the surface of the
>body.
>The motor body length is 15-7/8 inch long.
>The pilot shaft protrudes 2-1/8 inch from face of motor and is 7/8 inches
>in diameter and is bolt thread tapped.
>The drive shaft protrudes 2 inches from the face and is 1-1/4 inches in
>diameter drill for a transmission pilot bushing.
Since the ADC 8 and 9, and the Warp 8 and 9 all have 1 1/8 inch shafts, are
you sure the Impulse's shaft is 1 1/4 diameter? ( or, is this just a typo?)
Phil
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/<http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was in the scrap yard a couple weeks ago measuring the space in a
Mazda 323, I
believe they are the same up front, I think you will have trouble getting a 9"
motor between the tranny and frame rail, you have 21 inchs to work with from
bell housing to the inside edge of the frame rail. If you like I can send you
the over all engine and hatch measurements from a three door '90 323.
Quoting Chris Seeley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Hi list,
I have been offered a 92 Mazda Protégé. The price is right (free). It's
been parked for several years, and it did run when it was parked. It needed
a water pump, at the time. The code enforcer has given him till this
weekend to get it off of his property, so either I get it or the local bone
yard does. The body is in excellent shape. I didn't try to start it, as I
don't care if it runs, but the clutch is stuck. What do you folks think....
Is this a god car to do? Have any of you converted one?
Best
Chris Seeley
--- End Message ---
