EV Digest 4505
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Air conditioning from the past.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Slow Launch
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: how many amps?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Dave and Donald - SpamArrest
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Slow Launch
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Tach sensor stuff
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Slow Launch
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Dave and Donald - SpamArrest
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dave and Donald - SpamArrest
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Air conditioning from the past.
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Slow Launch
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Dymaxion, etc.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: MC EV drive Set ups / eff Re: Motor cycle for electric
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Air conditioning from the past.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Dave and Donald - SpamArrest
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Air conditioner etc
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) RE: Air conditioning from the past. TONS OF a/c EXPLAINED.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Dave and Donald - SpamArrest
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dave and Donald - SpamArrest
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
by "Alex Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
by "Alex Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
We can learn a lot from Buckminster Fuller. His Dymaxion car was the first
with A/C.
Not mechanical A/C, he used dry ice.
This raises a very interesting concept. Could we make 'cold' on the grid
and use it like our batteries?
Could we make dry ice at home during the night and use it the next day for
A/C?
Is there anything else we could use?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I start off in second gear (an overall ratio of about 8:1)
> and notice when I stomp on the throttle, the car does not
> have a quick launch but gently tapers up the acceleration.
> Once it reaches 2500 RPM, the acceleration is quick, but off
> the line it is unexpectedly slow.
I think there are 3 possibilities:
- the controller is in current limit (i.e. the *motor* current is at its
maximum, but RPM is low, so motor voltage and therefore power is low).
Can you monitor the motor current with SIADIS, or just the battery
current? If the battery current is less than your battery current limit
and the accelerator is floored, that is usually a sign that the
controller is in output current limit.
- the controller has some lame acelerator/throttle ramp programmed that
causes it to respond slowly to sudden/large throttle commands. If there
is a throttle ramp or delay parameter, you can probably configure it
with SIADIS.
- the motor simply doesn't produce that much torque at extremely low
RPM, even with max motor current supplied. Have to check the torque
curve/map for this.
If its any consolation, Al Godfrey also found that his AC Porsche 928
does not have the neck-snapping off-the-line performance as his DC 914
had, even though it does accelerate smartly once rolling.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Since you are using flooded lead acid batteries, you might need to set
the motor amps in the Zilla to 400 amps. With AGM's.. you could give
the motor full amps..
There is no reason to set the motor current lower just because you are
using flooded batteries. It is the _battery_ current that you'd want to
set lower (i.e. 400 amps) in order to protect the flooded lead acid
batteries (assuming you only have one series string of them). The motor
current can remain at 1000 amps regardless of battery type.
This is how the Zilla in my Cherokee is configured. Although this means
the Zilla isn't really being used to it's full potential, the result is
that you get a lot more low-end torque and generally the vehicle pulls
harder. So IMO it's still a _very_ worthwhile upgrade.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Don Cameron wrote:
Everytime I post to the EV Mailing list I get a email to my account from
"Dave" and or "Donald" about registering for their spam arrest.
Please turn this off - it is just another form of spam - it is also abuse of
my private email address.
I got some of those as well, though I wasn't sure if anyone else was
receiving them or not as they appear to be going around off list? They
are irritating for sure...
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
On the new Beetle, I use a Siemens system at 312V with a 5133WS18 motor and
Simovert controller - max torque of 175Nm/129ft-lbs
I modified SIADIS so that it can take up to 250amps current. I use to have
it limited to 100amps.
I start off in second gear (an overall ratio of about 8:1) and notice when I
stomp on the throttle, the car does not have a quick launch but gently
tapers up the acceleration. Once it reaches 2500 RPM, the acceleration is
quick, but off the line it is unexpectedly slow.
I notice on the ammeter that at launch it is only taking in 50-80 amps, then
as the RPMS rise to 2500 rpm, the amps rise to the maximum current of 250
amps.
Is this slow launch a factor of the control software? Maybe it is the
maximum torque of the motor? Is the launch a factor of torque or power?
When you stomp on the throttle, you immediately reach 400A rms
motor current limit and max torque accordingly. Your acceleration
*rate* is the same as after you reach 2000-3000 RPM, because the
current (torque) stay conatant).
At launch the motor power is always low (torque*low RPM), for inatance
at 60 rpm and 175 Nm it is only 175*1*6.28=1.1kW. (To illustrate it
better, at stall full 282A rms flows in, torque is 175 Nm but the
motor power is zero!) the motor voltage is miserable 4V (1100W/282A=4).
You cannot increase the voltage intil higher RPM, or you burn the
winding, with no back EMF it is only milliohms wire resistance).
So assuming for the moment the motor/inverter is 100% efficient,
on the the batery can only supply 1 kW, the motor won't take anymore!
At 1.1 kW and 312V the battery current then cannot exceed 1100/312=3.5A,
As RPM (and so back EMF) rise, so is the motor voltage to stay above
back EMF by at least 4V (ideal case, no losses) so the power
increase. Since the battery voltage assumed the same, battery
current must gradually increase as well to maintain that
power. This battery current will keep rising until either
you hit battery side current limit (this is the cliff where
you go into the constant power mode), or if the battery voltage
is low, you hit the voltage limit (so the power is still reduced)
before you hit current limit.
My ACRX behaves the same, and so was EV1. It is driver's sensation
that the launch is slow, the torque at the wheels is the same.
If you keep full throttle, the car appears to accelerate faster
and faster. But in fact it is constant, it only appears like that
compared to DC setups (or ICE) where the torque tapers down
from the very beginning and most people got use to it and "expect" that.
Does this make sense?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Cover<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVList<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Tach sensor stuff
--- Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
> Another thing I was looking for was a ring magnet like the kind used
> with the speed sensor Otmar sells. It seems like that would work just as
> good (it is a 4-pole magnet, right?), but again I can't seem to find
> them sold anywhere?
>
How about some epoxy and heat shrink? If you have a nice clean section of the
shaft, epoxy two or
four button magnets evenly around the shaft and then use a small section of
heat shrink as a cover.
Yes/No?
Dave Cover
Holly Carburetor Company makes a set of four magnets that snap into a plastic
holder that has adhesive tape on them.
After pressing this plastic holders with the magnets on to the drive surface,
it is then band clamp with stainless tie wire that is double up forming a loop
at one end and two wire ends at the other end.
The double up stainless steel wire is than wrap around the shaft and insert
into the plastic magnet holders grooves.
The two ends of the wire is than inserted into the wire loop and is pull
tight. They make a tool for this, but you can use a pliers to pull it tight
and fold it back and tuck the wire ends down next to the shaft.
Nice and neat, no twisting. Hoses will hold 150 lbs pressure used this type
of wire clamp.
These magnets are normally fasten to the drive shaft sending data to a
Electronic Control Holly Carburetor.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This makes perfect sense. Thanks Victor.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: July 14, 2005 12:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Slow Launch
Don Cameron wrote:
> On the new Beetle, I use a Siemens system at 312V with a 5133WS18
> motor and Simovert controller - max torque of 175Nm/129ft-lbs
>
> I modified SIADIS so that it can take up to 250amps current. I use to
> have it limited to 100amps.
>
> I start off in second gear (an overall ratio of about 8:1) and notice
> when I stomp on the throttle, the car does not have a quick launch but
> gently tapers up the acceleration. Once it reaches 2500 RPM, the
> acceleration is quick, but off the line it is unexpectedly slow.
>
> I notice on the ammeter that at launch it is only taking in 50-80
> amps, then as the RPMS rise to 2500 rpm, the amps rise to the maximum
> current of 250 amps.
>
> Is this slow launch a factor of the control software? Maybe it is the
> maximum torque of the motor? Is the launch a factor of torque or power?
When you stomp on the throttle, you immediately reach 400A rms motor current
limit and max torque accordingly. Your acceleration
*rate* is the same as after you reach 2000-3000 RPM, because the current
(torque) stay conatant).
At launch the motor power is always low (torque*low RPM), for inatance at 60
rpm and 175 Nm it is only 175*1*6.28=1.1kW. (To illustrate it better, at
stall full 282A rms flows in, torque is 175 Nm but the motor power is zero!)
the motor voltage is miserable 4V (1100W/282A=4).
You cannot increase the voltage intil higher RPM, or you burn the winding,
with no back EMF it is only milliohms wire resistance).
So assuming for the moment the motor/inverter is 100% efficient, on the the
batery can only supply 1 kW, the motor won't take anymore!
At 1.1 kW and 312V the battery current then cannot exceed 1100/312=3.5A, As
RPM (and so back EMF) rise, so is the motor voltage to stay above back EMF
by at least 4V (ideal case, no losses) so the power increase. Since the
battery voltage assumed the same, battery current must gradually increase as
well to maintain that power. This battery current will keep rising until
either you hit battery side current limit (this is the cliff where you go
into the constant power mode), or if the battery voltage
is low, you hit the voltage limit (so the power is still reduced) before
you hit current limit.
My ACRX behaves the same, and so was EV1. It is driver's sensation that the
launch is slow, the torque at the wheels is the same.
If you keep full throttle, the car appears to accelerate faster and faster.
But in fact it is constant, it only appears like that compared to DC setups
(or ICE) where the torque tapers down from the very beginning and most
people got use to it and "expect" that.
Does this make sense?
>
> thanks
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I fot couple of those too. My fear is it can get automatically
sent to everyone on the list (until turned off).
Nick Viera wrote:
Hi,
Don Cameron wrote:
Everytime I post to the EV Mailing list I get a email to my account from
"Dave" and or "Donald" about registering for their spam arrest.
Please turn this off - it is just another form of spam - it is also
abuse of
my private email address.
I got some of those as well, though I wasn't sure if anyone else was
receiving them or not as they appear to be going around off list? They
are irritating for sure...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Every now and then someone on the list comes across spamarrest and thinks
it is a good idea.
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea, so I just set up a filter for
"spamarrest" and autodelete those messages. If they don't get my posts,
oh well.
Cheers, Pete.
> Hi,
>
> Don Cameron wrote:
>> Everytime I post to the EV Mailing list I get a email to my account from
>> "Dave" and or "Donald" about registering for their spam arrest.
>> Please turn this off - it is just another form of spam - it is also
>> abuse of
>> my private email address.
>
> I got some of those as well, though I wasn't sure if anyone else was
> receiving them or not as they appear to be going around off list? They
> are irritating for sure...
>
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Regular ice or a few of those freezer pack blocks might work too, though
both would be a bit heaver than dry ice:
http://www.roshgo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=rc01/CTGY/00408
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu or Jan
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 12:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Air conditioning from the past.
We can learn a lot from Buckminster Fuller. His Dymaxion car was the first
with A/C.
Not mechanical A/C, he used dry ice.
This raises a very interesting concept. Could we make 'cold' on the grid
and use it like our batteries?
Could we make dry ice at home during the night and use it the next day for
A/C?
Is there anything else we could use?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don, also 2 suggestions if I may:
1- you have powerful SIADIS - why don't you plot the motor
torque, motor power, motor RPM, motor current and battery current - all
at the same time? SIADIS will use different colors and label
legend for you. You can also save it as ASCII stream and massage
in excel later, but the point is the interaction between these
parameters will be very obvious to you once you see timing
diagram for them all.
2 - do the experiment: pick a hill steep enough so you cannot
climb it at full throttle (pick 3rd or 4th gear and that hill
won't need to be very steep) Stomp on the throttle and watch
the battery current as the car goes up hill and eventually
stops (and then rolls back) while you keep full throttle
(there is no harm doing that). You will see the battery
current approaching zero amps as you slow down to the stop,
this is because your motor power (and so battery power)
approach zero at zero RPM. So when you totally stopped,
the only battery current is your total losses, my guess is
it's less than 5-6A at stall on the incline.
Don Cameron wrote:
This makes perfect sense. Thanks Victor.
Victoria, BC, Canada
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Obviously I have some love for the Dymaxion car!
Same here!! A car way before it's time but I
believe it's time has finally come ;-)
>
> I wonder if it was really only 1000 lbs?
I agree too, at least twice that as a minimium
even in aluminium.
>
> A caution I would have is how stable was it for high
> speed driving?
> Many cars have a bit of a wedge shape, and/or
> spoilers, to fight rear
> end lift.
It narrows at the rear a lot so should lessen that,
>
> Why choose an MG or Triumph front end? Those are
> orphan cars you
> haven't been able to buy for many years.
>
> An S10 Blazer could make a good starting point, the
> running gear
> attaches to the frame. You could even leave the
> dash, steering,
> controls, and front seats. The strong frame rails
> would make good
> attachment points for the 3rd wheel. With the
> strength of the truck
> frame you could likely have 50+% weight in
> batteries.
I'm going with David here too. For a 1000lbs or so
cars the others would work but a larger Dymaxion type
would need a compact light truck frame as a good
start.
> Last random thought: I've wondered if 3 wheel
> steering could tame the
> oversteering tendencies of a 1F2R arrangement.
Just balancing the weight will do that quite
well. Most 2f1r have too much weight by far on the
rear wheel when loaded and even before the driver gets
in.
But EV's and 3wh are a match if there ever was
one as the batt weight allows the correct and very low
CG for great handling.
> --- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am 'building' a 2F1R hybrid in my imagination.
> >
> > Batteries up front. 75/25 ratio.
66/34
> >
> > A front end from a Triumph or an MG donor.
> Make/years/sources?
Most popular yr for best parts supply,
> >
> > A swing axle from a motorcycle rear. No rear
> mechanical brake.
No, MC wheels arte not designed for side force.
Make a custom one from car componants.
> > Regen
> > braking. How to fit wheel and pulleys?
> Suggestions for a donor
> > rear?
Custom single side arm. Cavalier one side of it's
rear axle is a good starting point,
> >
> > A 10Kw to 15KW engine with variable pulleys to one
> side of the rear
> > wheel.
> >
> > A 10KW motor with variable pulleys to the other
> side of the rear
> > wheel.
Power only one side of the wheel. You can use the
e motor as a jack shaft or use a seperate on as the
center of the sprocket must be at the swing arm pivot
or bad problems happen if belt and a pain if chain.
> >
> > Source of pulleys?
Any 'Bearing shop" Look in Yellow pages under
bearings.
> >
> > Weight of engine/motor beyond rear for traction
> and for exhaust.
?? Not smart for balance reasons amoung others.
> >
> > A roll cage frame. Tear drop aero. Light weight
> covering using
> > flat panels
> > like a stealth bomber. Suggestions as to design
Read archive in Vortex3wheeler. Too much for here
again.
> and tubing
> > dimensions.
> > Suggestions of how to enter/exit.
> >
> > DC motor driven A/C.
> >
> > Anyone else interested in this project? I sure
> would enjoy some
> > company.
> > Car to be built in Fort Pierce, FL.
They have EV meeting there all the time!! Go to
one. Fla EAA website
HTH's
Jerry Dycus
> >
> > BoyntonStu
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike and All,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/14/2005 7:30:04 A.M. Mountain
> Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > Hey rich, do you have BLDC motors and controllers
> > that would do nicely
> > on a MC?
>
> I'd love a good, cost effective, regen, eff BLDC
> motor/controller for the Freedom EV!!! It would
> increase my range by 10-25% depending on use,
> terrain!!
>
>
>
> Jerry,
> What about a BLDC from UQM for your application?
> Biggest problem at first
> glance is the voltage requirements. Of course cost
> in small quantities is
> unknown and they want to sell only to major OEM type
> integrators (e.g. Eaton).
> _http://www.uqm.com/products/specsheet.html_
> (http://www.uqm.com/products/specsheet.html)
Great motors if you are a millionaire!!
But I have to be cost effective and my EV drive,
motor,controller, contactors, wiring, curciut breakers
reverse sprockets, belts, bearings, mount,ect complete
budget not including batts is $2k, perferably a lot
less.
So for now 2 D+D 6.7's, Altrax 7245, gates
polychain, gets me where I need to be.
But doing the munbers I should be able to build my
own disc motor/controller for even less the the ones
above in the futuire and much less the UQM.
I wish Rich would make hisBLDC controller
available!!
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Look Under Vehicle Drive Systems
> MPM30 Motor/Generator (regen) 30 kW (46 hp) 250-400
> VDC 8000 rpm 140 Nâ¢m
> (103 lbfâ¢ft)
>
> Mike Bachand
> DEVC
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:09 PM 7/14/2005, you wrote:
Regular ice or a few of those freezer pack blocks might work too, though
both would be a bit heaver than dry ice:
http://www.roshgo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=rc01/CTGY/00408
Bill Dennis
I have not looked up the specific heat numbers or the heat of fusion number
so dry ice may be lighter but water is usually the winner when it comes to
storing heat, especially if cost and safety are also factors.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Jul 14, 2005 at 01:57:55PM -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Every now and then someone on the list comes across spamarrest and thinks
> it is a good idea.
> Personally, I don't think it's a good idea, so I just set up a filter for
> "spamarrest" and autodelete those messages. If they don't get my posts,
> oh well.
>
> Cheers, Pete.
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Don Cameron wrote:
> >> Everytime I post to the EV Mailing list I get a email to my account from
> >> "Dave" and or "Donald" about registering for their spam arrest.
Do people get spam from this list?
I don't recall ever seeing one.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > But wouldn't it be easier to get a 1-1/2 to 2hp treadmill motor from Burden
or
> > AmSci&Surplus? These are usually spec'd for 100-120vdc, so you could run it
> > directly from the pack, connect it to all 3 units (power steering and
brakes,
> > A/C), and forgo complicated controls except an off circuit to cut power when
> > none of the 3 are in use. Don't know the mechanical setup, but maybe a
> > serpentine belt or even a chain and gears?
> >
>
> Ok, I'm on board with not using an alternator and I have a nice new treadmill
motor sitting in my
> basement. Now how do I control the motor? I will have a high voltage traction
pack, over 300
> volts. And I'd like to be able to vary the speed of the motor, slower on the
highway, faster at
> slow speeds for the power steering.
>
> Dave Cover
300V might would create too high of rpms directly, so a motor controller is best
for your application anyway. You'd probably only need 10A of current, but where
are you going to find a HV/LC controller?! I've seen a Solectria controller
like that on eBay (not now) and I'm sure if you have the money you can find
one, but maybe one of the EVDL gurus can make one? I see these 24V/10A
controller kits on the web, but I doubt you can easily upgrade the voltage just
by swapping out a few parts!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A ton of ice weighs 2,000 lb.
The latent heat of fusion of ice is 144 BTU's per pound.
Latent heat of fusion is the amount of heat required to melt ice at 32
degrees F.
Thus 144 x 2000 = 288,000 BTU's would melt a ton of ice.
A 1 ton air conditioner is rated at 12,000 BTU's per hour.
12,000 x 24 hours = 288,000 BTU's or equal to one ton of ice for cooling.
That is where the term TONS of A/C comes from!
For a room, a small 110VAC A/C unit is about 5,500 BTU.
5,500 / 144 = 38 Pounds of ICE equivalent.
Water weighs 8.3 lb per gallon.
If you froze 38/8.3 = 4.57 gallons of water during the night and put it in
your car with a fan over it, you would be carrying a 5,500 BTU A/C unit.
There is a problem remaining, humidity.
Blowing air in a car over water is going to cause humidity.
The way to avoid humidity is to put the ice in a sealed heat sink container
and blow air over the fins. You then collect the condensate and drain it
outside. Not too difficult.
BoyntonStu
If you are not part of the solution, you become part of the precipitate.
Heda
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andre' Blanchard
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Air conditioning from the past.
At 03:09 PM 7/14/2005, you wrote:
>Regular ice or a few of those freezer pack blocks might work too, though
>both would be a bit heaver than dry ice:
>http://www.roshgo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=rc01/CTGY/00408
>
>Bill Dennis
I have not looked up the specific heat numbers or the heat of fusion number
so dry ice may be lighter but water is usually the winner when it comes to
storing heat, especially if cost and safety are also factors.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am terribly sorry about the SPAM arrest deal. I am taking measures to
remove it, but that is proving difficult.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Dave and Donald - SpamArrest
Every now and then someone on the list comes across spamarrest and thinks
it is a good idea.
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea, so I just set up a filter for
"spamarrest" and autodelete those messages. If they don't get my posts,
oh well.
Cheers, Pete.
Hi,
Don Cameron wrote:
Everytime I post to the EV Mailing list I get a email to my account from
"Dave" and or "Donald" about registering for their spam arrest.
Please turn this off - it is just another form of spam - it is also
abuse of
my private email address.
I got some of those as well, though I wasn't sure if anyone else was
receiving them or not as they appear to be going around off list? They
are irritating for sure...
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
SPAM Arrest is an email hijacker program. Under the guise of helping you
stop SPAM, it redirects all your incomming email to their servers, and
replies a message to them to go to their website and log in. It is a great
bunch of BS. I am trying everything I can to get it removed right now. The
only method they list is a long distance telephone number, and of course it
is not answered, just a message. I do humbly apologize to everyone for the
problem.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Dave and Donald - SpamArrest
On Thu, Jul 14, 2005 at 01:57:55PM -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Every now and then someone on the list comes across spamarrest and thinks
it is a good idea.
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea, so I just set up a filter for
"spamarrest" and autodelete those messages. If they don't get my posts,
oh well.
Cheers, Pete.
> Hi,
>
> Don Cameron wrote:
>> Everytime I post to the EV Mailing list I get a email to my account
>> from
>> "Dave" and or "Donald" about registering for their spam arrest.
Do people get spam from this list?
I don't recall ever seeing one.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just emailed them a week ago they have a couple hundred left.
damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:This list is as good a place as I know of
to find them. They are usually
obtained as military surplus, and thanks to the efforts of one of our list
members earlier this year some of us got in on a buy stemming from a surplus
auction.
Unfortunately for you all of us who got in on this buy are just starting to
use our batteries and decididng whether they really fit the application we
were hoping to use them for. Mine are working out great for me, but I
suspect others will find that they don't, and be offering them for sale in
the future.
Since you are still in the design stage I would suggest looking at the sizes
of some of the more commonly used batteries and make sure you build in a
space that will accomodate as many of these choices as is practical. We can
certainly get you dimensions. With the BB600 the only dimension you really
need to worry about is the height which is approx. 9 1/4 inches, but they do
require occasional watering so you will need easy access to the tops of
them. Also they are flooded so they need to be used in a vertical position.
These people used to sell them, but it's been well over a year since I last
checked with them. Still you can see a photo and the dimensions.
http://www.sg-photo.com/nicad_batteries.htm
damon
>From: "Alex Smith"
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:33:21 +0000
>
>Hi Guys.
>Just joined at the advice of Jerry Dycus as I am in the process of building
>(well, gathereing the components and doing the design work) an electric
>motorcycle.
>It is to be a 'feet forward', low slung, semi-enclosed machine. While I am
>currently designing the machine to accomodate 5 12volt flooded batteries,
>the design would be much nicer with smaller batteries.
>I've done a good bit of surfing but have been unable to find the BB600's
>you have mentioned. Any leads?
>Alex Smith
>3 wheeled vehicle enthusiast.
>Glider Pilot.
>Sail boat enthusiast.
>EV's fit right in there, don't they?
>
>
>
>
>>From: "damon henry"
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: New EM pictures
>>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:22:09 +0000
>>
>>Actually 44 cells and 150lbs.
>>
>>>From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
>>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>>To:
>>>Subject: Re: New EM pictures
>>>Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:59:04 -0700
>>>
>>>So 60 batteries about 200 pounds? 17 miles. Great. If you can do any
>>>Freeway that is great. The bike is so much cleaner now. Seems you have
>>>the chain figured out too. LR........
>>>
>>>
>>>>I snapped a few shots of my bike with the BB600's mounted and added them
>>>>to my webpage.
>>>>
>>>>http://home.comcast.net/~damonhenry/ebike.htm
>>>>
>>>>I am much happier with the way it looks with these batteries. The only
>>>>downside is that people rarely notice that it is electric now :-(
>>>>
>>>>damon
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon,
Thanks for the reply and the link. I had actually found that place once
before but couldn't relocate it (what was I thinking).
Your's is good advice from a couple of aspects. I'll size for group 24 lead/
acid and install those. That will give me plenty of room for more advanced
batteries in the future and will risk the least amout of money during the
development stage.
Thanks.
Alex
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:14:04 +0000
This list is as good a place as I know of to find them. They are usually
obtained as military surplus, and thanks to the efforts of one of our list
members earlier this year some of us got in on a buy stemming from a
surplus auction.
Unfortunately for you all of us who got in on this buy are just starting to
use our batteries and decididng whether they really fit the application we
were hoping to use them for. Mine are working out great for me, but I
suspect others will find that they don't, and be offering them for sale in
the future.
Since you are still in the design stage I would suggest looking at the
sizes of some of the more commonly used batteries and make sure you build
in a space that will accomodate as many of these choices as is practical.
We can certainly get you dimensions. With the BB600 the only dimension you
really need to worry about is the height which is approx. 9 1/4 inches, but
they do require occasional watering so you will need easy access to the
tops of them. Also they are flooded so they need to be used in a vertical
position.
These people used to sell them, but it's been well over a year since I last
checked with them. Still you can see a photo and the dimensions.
http://www.sg-photo.com/nicad_batteries.htm
damon
From: "Alex Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:33:21 +0000
Hi Guys.
Just joined at the advice of Jerry Dycus as I am in the process of
building (well, gathereing the components and doing the design work) an
electric motorcycle.
It is to be a 'feet forward', low slung, semi-enclosed machine. While I am
currently designing the machine to accomodate 5 12volt flooded batteries,
the design would be much nicer with smaller batteries.
I've done a good bit of surfing but have been unable to find the BB600's
you have mentioned. Any leads?
Alex Smith
3 wheeled vehicle enthusiast.
Glider Pilot.
Sail boat enthusiast.
EV's fit right in there, don't they?
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New EM pictures
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:22:09 +0000
Actually 44 cells and 150lbs.
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: New EM pictures
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:59:04 -0700
So 60 batteries about 200 pounds? 17 miles. Great. If you can do any
Freeway that is great. The bike is so much cleaner now. Seems you have
the chain figured out too. LR........
I snapped a few shots of my bike with the BB600's mounted and added
them to my webpage.
http://home.comcast.net/~damonhenry/ebike.htm
I am much happier with the way it looks with these batteries. The only
downside is that people rarely notice that it is electric now :-(
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I'm new at this, is $10 per 1.2v 34a/h cell a good price?
Alex
From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:21:00 -0700 (PDT)
Just emailed them a week ago they have a couple hundred left.
damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:This list is as good a place as
I know of to find them. They are usually
obtained as military surplus, and thanks to the efforts of one of our list
members earlier this year some of us got in on a buy stemming from a
surplus
auction.
Unfortunately for you all of us who got in on this buy are just starting to
use our batteries and decididng whether they really fit the application we
were hoping to use them for. Mine are working out great for me, but I
suspect others will find that they don't, and be offering them for sale in
the future.
Since you are still in the design stage I would suggest looking at the
sizes
of some of the more commonly used batteries and make sure you build in a
space that will accomodate as many of these choices as is practical. We can
certainly get you dimensions. With the BB600 the only dimension you really
need to worry about is the height which is approx. 9 1/4 inches, but they
do
require occasional watering so you will need easy access to the tops of
them. Also they are flooded so they need to be used in a vertical position.
These people used to sell them, but it's been well over a year since I last
checked with them. Still you can see a photo and the dimensions.
http://www.sg-photo.com/nicad_batteries.htm
damon
>From: "Alex Smith"
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:33:21 +0000
>
>Hi Guys.
>Just joined at the advice of Jerry Dycus as I am in the process of
building
>(well, gathereing the components and doing the design work) an electric
>motorcycle.
>It is to be a 'feet forward', low slung, semi-enclosed machine. While I
am
>currently designing the machine to accomodate 5 12volt flooded batteries,
>the design would be much nicer with smaller batteries.
>I've done a good bit of surfing but have been unable to find the BB600's
>you have mentioned. Any leads?
>Alex Smith
>3 wheeled vehicle enthusiast.
>Glider Pilot.
>Sail boat enthusiast.
>EV's fit right in there, don't they?
>
>
>
>
>>From: "damon henry"
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: New EM pictures
>>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:22:09 +0000
>>
>>Actually 44 cells and 150lbs.
>>
>>>From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
>>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>>To:
>>>Subject: Re: New EM pictures
>>>Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:59:04 -0700
>>>
>>>So 60 batteries about 200 pounds? 17 miles. Great. If you can do any
>>>Freeway that is great. The bike is so much cleaner now. Seems you have
>>>the chain figured out too. LR........
>>>
>>>
>>>>I snapped a few shots of my bike with the BB600's mounted and added
them
>>>>to my webpage.
>>>>
>>>>http://home.comcast.net/~damonhenry/ebike.htm
>>>>
>>>>I am much happier with the way it looks with these batteries. The only
>>>>downside is that people rarely notice that it is electric now :-(
>>>>
>>>>damon
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Compared to their original price, yes. However, you will likely be able to
find them for much less.
I, for example, have a dozen unopened cases of them (38 cells per case)
that I'll be selling one way or another, at a couple bucks each to recover
my original costs (which included a substantial freight charge). I've
verified they're very good cells and they work well, but don't give quite
enough current for my purposes.
I've talked to Noel at SG Photo (linked below) and most of the cells she
sells are Marathons, which are reported to deliver much higher currents
than what I've been able to get out of the Safts. If you want/need much
more than 1000A, they may be worth the money. I'm considering that avenue,
but at the moment I think I'll go back to planning on Orbitals.
--chris
Alex Smith said:
> As I'm new at this, is $10 per 1.2v 34a/h cell a good price?
> Alex
>
>
>>From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
>>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:21:00 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Just emailed them a week ago they have a couple hundred left.
>>
>>damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:This list is as good a place
>> as
>>I know of to find them. They are usually
>>obtained as military surplus, and thanks to the efforts of one of our
>> list
>>members earlier this year some of us got in on a buy stemming from a
>>surplus
>>auction.
>>
>>Unfortunately for you all of us who got in on this buy are just starting
>> to
>>use our batteries and decididng whether they really fit the application
>> we
>>were hoping to use them for. Mine are working out great for me, but I
>>suspect others will find that they don't, and be offering them for sale
>> in
>>the future.
>>
>>Since you are still in the design stage I would suggest looking at the
>>sizes
>>of some of the more commonly used batteries and make sure you build in a
>>space that will accomodate as many of these choices as is practical. We
>> can
>>certainly get you dimensions. With the BB600 the only dimension you
>> really
>>need to worry about is the height which is approx. 9 1/4 inches, but they
>>do
>>require occasional watering so you will need easy access to the tops of
>>them. Also they are flooded so they need to be used in a vertical
>> position.
>>
>>These people used to sell them, but it's been well over a year since I
>> last
>>checked with them. Still you can see a photo and the dimensions.
>>
>>http://www.sg-photo.com/nicad_batteries.htm
>>
>>damon
>>
>> >From: "Alex Smith"
>> >Reply-To: [email protected]
>> >To: [email protected]
>> >Subject: Re: New EM pictures and a newbee question.
>> >Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:33:21 +0000
>> >
>> >Hi Guys.
>> >Just joined at the advice of Jerry Dycus as I am in the process of
>>building
>> >(well, gathereing the components and doing the design work) an electric
>> >motorcycle.
>> >It is to be a 'feet forward', low slung, semi-enclosed machine. While I
>>am
>> >currently designing the machine to accomodate 5 12volt flooded
>> batteries,
>> >the design would be much nicer with smaller batteries.
>> >I've done a good bit of surfing but have been unable to find the
>> BB600's
>> >you have mentioned. Any leads?
>> >Alex Smith
>> >3 wheeled vehicle enthusiast.
>> >Glider Pilot.
>> >Sail boat enthusiast.
>> >EV's fit right in there, don't they?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: "damon henry"
>> >>Reply-To: [email protected]
>> >>To: [email protected]
>> >>Subject: Re: New EM pictures
>> >>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:22:09 +0000
>> >>
>> >>Actually 44 cells and 150lbs.
>> >>
>> >>>From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
>> >>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>> >>>To:
>> >>>Subject: Re: New EM pictures
>> >>>Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:59:04 -0700
>> >>>
>> >>>So 60 batteries about 200 pounds? 17 miles. Great. If you can do any
>> >>>Freeway that is great. The bike is so much cleaner now. Seems you
>> have
>> >>>the chain figured out too. LR........
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>I snapped a few shots of my bike with the BB600's mounted and added
>>them
>> >>>>to my webpage.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>http://home.comcast.net/~damonhenry/ebike.htm
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I am much happier with the way it looks with these batteries. The
>> only
>> >>>>downside is that people rarely notice that it is electric now :-(
>> >>>>
>> >>>>damon
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
