EV Digest 4512
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: e mower
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Trojan vs US batt, US batt phone number? Re: 12v Flooded battery
advice.
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Portland, OR visit
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ni cad charging, Re: Very simple BMS
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Prius
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Ni cad charging, Re: Very simple BMS
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) NiCD batteries and metal
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Ni cad charging, Re: Very simple BMS
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: NiCD batteries and metal
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Ni cad charging, Re: Very simple BMS
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Hacking the Dymaxion idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: NiCD batteries and metal
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RangerEV Lottery Announced by Ford
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Trojan cooks the books?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RangerEV Lottery
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: NiCD batteries and metal
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Portland, OR visit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: NiCD batteries and metal
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Drive Sprocket for ETEK
by BR Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Drive Sprocket for ETEK
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: Drive Sprocket for ETEK
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
29) RE: Drive Sprocket for ETEK & Freewheel
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Drive Sprocket for ETEK
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Contact Info for Tim H
by "jm_silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) RE: Prius
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Prius
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
some picutres of my e mower are up at
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projects.htm
I put 3 yellow tops and some tires on it and drive it around , things are
looking good , getting the deck set up will take some time as its missing
lots of parts .
STEVE CLUNN"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
US Battery at 653 Industrial Park Dr., Evans, Georgia is 1-800-522-0945 and
Terry Agrileus at X20 is whom I ordered previously. Nuaz Kareshi - eng is
the California location at 1-800-695-0945 and previously worked at Trojan.
I get about 10k miles out of US and about 12-14k miles from Trojans over the
last 30 years with 6v'ers doing about 1-2k miles better than 8v'ers. Best
cost per mile was the USBatt 6V'ers as Trojan's have become pricey. I
presently got a set of Exide's from Sam's in Jan and they replaced a dud (in
4 months) for free. I tried sealed batts once but the cost per mile was
poor.
I played with some (central watered) STM-180 ni-cads recently but they
required 120% charging vs 110% according to Saft manual/website, had a
drinking problem (with my two cycles per day 300 miles per week) and
couldn't see the cells when they were low which is a fundemental problem
that they were not willing to correct (cell indicators). Occasionally some
of the end cells wouldn't fill and had to be reverse filled. All the
batteries had to be mounted in a side view visible area which is not
practical in an EV.
Have a nice day, Mark www.solectrol.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 10:24 PM
Subject: Trojan vs US batt, US batt phone number? Re: 12v Flooded battery
advice.
>
> Hi Ryan, Lawrence and All,
>
> --- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > > Barring price would the Trojans be the ones?
> >
> > As far as flooded's go, I'm under the impression
> > Trojans are the best.
>
> They and US batt are about the same and many
> were designed by the same person, Narzai? Now with US
> batt.
> Anyone have his phone number or e mail, real
> name, as I need to talk to him?
> US batt is much friendlier to EV'ers too vs
> Trojan who doesn't seem to care.
> HTH's,
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll be visiting the Portland, Oregon area at the end of July with my
fiancé and would love to meet up with some EVers in the area if anyone
is around for eating and/or show & tell.
We are available Saturday or Sunday July 30th or 31st, sometime in the
afternoon or evening. As east coasters, it would be great to see the
stuff west coast legends are made of. Thanks.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
Chris,
I have a serial emeter and will be using a basic/stamp chip in a charger, I
would love to be able to use it also for reading when the charging is done.
Could you send me the programming that you did for the stamp? I'm real new to
the stamp programming so any help would be helpful. I've gotten the parallax
board of education kit and am reading the manual
Honestly, my serious recommendation is to take a week and go through the
whole Parallax book. You will learn a *lot* from it, much more than just
downloading snippets of code.
Give it a shot.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John Wayland
> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:04 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Prius
>
> Hello ot All,
>
> Christopher Robison wrote:
>
>> Not that this is really connected with the topic at all, but on the
>> subject of the Prius: For our meeting on Saturday, the AustinEV crew
>> gathered at the home of one of our members, Andrew Donoho, who bravely
>> offered up his 2004 Toyota Prius to receive the EV-mode kit from the
>> folks at Coastal Electronic Technologies. ...The result was a Prius
>> that drove in silence to 34mph. The disappointing part was the range.
>> While the battery pack is well-suited to hybrid use, it's sadly too
>> small to be very useful as an EV pack.
>
> Friend Geoff Shepherd has his new '05 model that he equipped with the Euro
> option of the 'EV' button, also. It does the same thing and makes one wish
> for a bigger battery pack, or a LiIon type of the same weight, and an
> on-board plug in charger.
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
My wife and I test drove the new Toyota Highlander Hybrid the other day. The
salesman did a pretty good job of trying
to educate us on how hybrid technology works. He was adamant though, that the
hybrids would not get their EPA rated
mileage. I told him about John's stories, but he wasn't hearing it. I also told
him I was upset that I couldn't buy a
Rav4-EV. No comment. He just said that hybrids are the future and Toyota plans
to make them an option in 70% of their
models.
As we were going for the test drive. My wife was driving, I was in the back
seat and he was in the passenger seat
explaining the power flow. For those not familiar, Toyota has a cool display on
the dash that shows graphically which
way the power is being distributed in the system. We started to descend a
small hill and he remarked, "See the system
is using regenerative braking to capture some energy to re-charge the battery.
This is energy that would be wasted in
a non-hybrid car but is stored in the hybrid to be re-used for acceleration. In
fact I get a lot of customers that ask
where or how often they have to plug the car in, and I have to explain to them
that they don't. The car will take care
of the battery on it's own. Notice just going down this hill the battery has
already filled up two more bars."
At this point I simply commented.. " Yeah but it sure would be nice if I COULD
plug it in, and not need gas."
At which point, my wife echoed enthusiastically, "Yeah! That would be SWEET!"
He just sat there with a puzzled look on his face.
Nice truck, but I'm not spending 42 grand for it. I'll wait for a Foxtrot or a
Freedom first.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On my SAFT's they are not charged until 1.6v/cell
at least. So it looks like you are not fully charging
your cells.
It's really possible that these batteries are just plain *new* and need
to be broken in for a few dozen cycles or so. What I'm seeing might not
be what I will see in a few months; heck I put 65+ah in for the
comissioning charge and they were not even warm.
I'll monitor them with my LED battery monitor in 10 cell blocks and
watch for anything going really weird. If a block has a cell go to zero
the monitor will pick it up fast.
That's why they are in the Elec-trak; research. On a happier note I got
my batch of 100 nickel plated copper busbars and nickel plated bolts and
washers. They are without a doubt things of *beauty*, jewelry quality. I
think this will end all that tarnishing around the batteries; KaOH
*EATS* copper alive.
Should make life easy for installing these batteries. No more 10 gauge
crimped interconnects for me!
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got an interesting question: I know that H2SO4 does a serious number on
metal. Pits it, burns it, corrodes it, makes rust happen. So you need to
put your batteries in a liner, paint everything well, and so forth.
Does the electrolyte in NiCDs do the same thing to sheet steel? How
about other things like copper? Should I have a liner in the Elec-trak
battery box to prevent wash-off from the batteries from getting on the
steel? Is plastic safe as a liner?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 18 Jul 2005 at 14:16, ProEV wrote:
> Finally we settled for the PFC50 running off the 30 amp 110 outlet. The pack
> voltage was about 320 volt. We soon had the car charging at 10 amps. After
> about an hour, the outlet went dead. We chased down a maintenance guy. He
> reset the main breaker but told us that it was almost too hot to touch. We
> ended up charging at 6 amps.
Something's not right here. That's the behaviour of a NON-PFC charger.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
At 07:58 AM 7/19/2005, Christopher Zach wrote:
That's why they are in the Elec-trak; research. On a happier note I got my
batch of 100 nickel plated copper busbars and nickel plated bolts and
washers. They are without a doubt things of *beauty*, jewelry quality. I
think this will end all that tarnishing around the batteries; KaOH *EATS*
copper alive.
Actually, the bolts and washers are just stainless steel.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
Got an interesting question: I know that H2SO4 does a serious number
on metal. Pits it, burns it, corrodes it, makes rust happen. So you
need to put your batteries in a liner, paint everything well, and so
forth.
Does the electrolyte in NiCDs do the same thing to sheet steel? How
about other things like copper? Should I have a liner in the Elec-trak
battery box to prevent wash-off from the batteries from getting on the
steel? Is plastic safe as a liner?
My understanding is the electrolyte is a little less corrosive on steel,
but a serious problem on aluminum. Its kinda a given flooded batteries
will get their chemistry all over everything. A plastic box is
probably a good idea in either case.
Mark
Chris
!DSPAM:42dd170a178417078914163!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> I have a serial emeter and will be using a basic/stamp chip in
> a charger, I would love to be able to use it also for reading
> when the charging is done.
Actually, all you need to do is orient a phototransistor to look at the
"full" LED on the bargraph of the E-meter. When it starts blinking, the
E-meter says the battery is full; turn off the charger.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
> I wonder what Bucky would come up with today?
> What design items are on your wish list?
You have to be careful how you approach a problem like this, or you will
get the same tired old answers. If you ask, "How can I pound in a
nail?", the answer will always be "hammer". But if you ask, "How can I
attach two pieces of wood?", then you'll get lots of answers; not just
the obvious ones (nails, screws, glue, duct tape...) The best answer is
usually not the first and most obvious one. For instance, "best" might
be to eliminate the need for two pieces, and make it out of a single
piece of wood.
Bucky didn't start by saying he wanted a car; he said he wanted a
"transporter" -- a device to move people from place to place, with a
minimum of limitations and infrastructure. Originally, it didn't even
have wheels -- it was an aircraft!
He also had some guiding principles that strongly influenced his
designs. He didn't worry about appearance or styling; he figured if it
was supremely functional, it would automatically be beautiful. He coined
the word "synergy" to describe designs where every part has many
functions, and no part is included unless it can be justified many ways.
So, if he were doing a Dymaxion II today...
I expect the basic requirements would be the same; a device for
transporting people between their homes and businesses, with as little
new infrastructure as possible. The device should be economical,
comfortable, non-polluting, and safe.
Start from there, and see where it leads! :-)
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> My understanding is the electrolyte is a little less corrosive on steel,
> but a serious problem on aluminum. Its kinda a given flooded batteries
> will get their chemistry all over everything. A plastic box is
> probably a good idea in either case.
>
If I have plastic battery boxes and I vent them away from the frame, do you
think I could build
the frames for the boxes out of aluminum? I intend to have muffin fans venting
through some kind
of ducts to the underside of the car. The fans will run any time the cells are
charging. I can get
12 volt brushless fans for a reasonable price.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/19/05, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 18 Jul 2005 at 14:16, ProEV wrote:
>
> > Finally we settled for the PFC50 running off the 30 amp 110 outlet. The pack
> > voltage was about 320 volt. We soon had the car charging at 10 amps. After
> > about an hour, the outlet went dead. We chased down a maintenance guy. He
> > reset the main breaker but told us that it was almost too hot to touch. We
> > ended up charging at 6 amps.
>
> Something's not right here. That's the behaviour of a NON-PFC charger.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
Well, 10A*320V = 3.2kW.
Let's say the PFC50 charger is 85% efficient at this setting: 3680W.
Now let's say the RMS voltage at the socket dropped to 100VAC under
load: nearly 37A. Perhaps that's a worst case, but I could believe it
getting too hot, even with a perfect power factor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:28:59 -0700
From: Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Prius
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 08:14:36AM +1000, djsharpe wrote:
> What happens to the Prius if you are descending a long/steep hill & have
> charged up the battery pack & it cannot accept anymore charge? David
Typical result:
http://www.spankyspangler.com/pics/flames01.JPG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tim Humphrey
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 12:45 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Prius
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of John Wayland
> > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:04 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Prius
> >
> > Hello ot All,
> >
> > Christopher Robison wrote:
> >
> >> Not that this is really connected with the topic at all, but on the
> >> subject of the Prius: For our meeting on Saturday, the AustinEV crew
> >> gathered at the home of one of our members, Andrew Donoho, who
> bravely
> >> offered up his 2004 Toyota Prius to receive the EV-mode kit from the
> >> folks at Coastal Electronic Technologies. ...The result was a Prius
> >> that drove in silence to 34mph. The disappointing part was the range.
> >> While the battery pack is well-suited to hybrid use, it's sadly too
> >> small to be very useful as an EV pack.
> >
> > Friend Geoff Shepherd has his new '05 model that he equipped with the
> Euro
> > option of the 'EV' button, also. It does the same thing and makes one
> wish
> > for a bigger battery pack, or a LiIon type of the same weight, and an
> > on-board plug in charger.
> >
> > See Ya.....John Wayland
> >
>
> My wife and I test drove the new Toyota Highlander Hybrid the other day.
> The salesman did a pretty good job of trying
> to educate us on how hybrid technology works. He was adamant though,
> that the hybrids would not get their EPA rated
> mileage. I told him about John's stories, but he wasn't hearing it. I
> also told him I was upset that I couldn't buy a
> Rav4-EV. No comment. He just said that hybrids are the future and Toyota
> plans to make them an option in 70% of their
> models.
>
> As we were going for the test drive. My wife was driving, I was in the
> back seat and he was in the passenger seat
> explaining the power flow. For those not familiar, Toyota has a cool
> display on the dash that shows graphically which
> way the power is being distributed in the system. We started to descend
> a small hill and he remarked, "See the system
> is using regenerative braking to capture some energy to re-charge the
> battery. This is energy that would be wasted in
> a non-hybrid car but is stored in the hybrid to be re-used for
> acceleration. In fact I get a lot of customers that ask
> where or how often they have to plug the car in, and I have to explain
> to them that they don't. The car will take care
> of the battery on it's own. Notice just going down this hill the battery
> has already filled up two more bars."
>
> At this point I simply commented.. " Yeah but it sure would be nice if I
> COULD plug it in, and not need gas."
>
> At which point, my wife echoed enthusiastically, "Yeah! That would be
> SWEET!"
>
> He just sat there with a puzzled look on his face.
>
> Nice truck, but I'm not spending 42 grand for it. I'll wait for a
> Foxtrot or a Freedom first.
>
>
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> "Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left
> untreated, it develops into Arrogance, which is often
> fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
>
> Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
> send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
--- End Message ---
