EV Digest 4513
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Prius
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Prius
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van conversion
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van conversion
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van conversion(OT
somewhat)
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Formulas
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NiCD batteries and metal
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van conversion
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NiCD batteries and metal
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Prius
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) NiCD interconnects arrived
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Drive Sprocket for ETEK & Freewheel
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) It did it AGAIN
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: It did it AGAIN
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van conversion
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Trojan cooks the books?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Japanese micro (kei) cars for conversion
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van
conversion
by James Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EV vans, Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van
conversion
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Friction drive question.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Friction drive question. (No extra spaces)
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) TS Undervoltage Detection
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Friction drive question.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 12v Flooded battery advice.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Prius
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: TS Undervoltage Detection - free simulation SW
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 12v Flooded battery advice.
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) A vehicle licensing idea
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Prius
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Prius
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) H2 Can't Compete with Ev's Hybrids
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: A vehicle licensing idea
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) One-way clutch (was Freewheel...)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: Japanese micro (kei) cars for conversion
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
35) RE: One-way clutch (was Freewheel...)
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the warning.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Austin
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 8:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Prius
On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 08:14:36AM +1000, djsharpe wrote:
> What happens to the Prius if you are descending a long/steep hill &
have
> charged up the battery pack & it cannot accept anymore charge? David
Typical result:
http://www.spankyspangler.com/pics/flames01.JPG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Tim Humphrey
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 12:45 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Prius
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of John Wayland
> > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:04 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Prius
> >
> > Hello ot All,
> >
> > Christopher Robison wrote:
> >
> >> Not that this is really connected with the topic at all, but on the
> >> subject of the Prius: For our meeting on Saturday, the AustinEV
crew
> >> gathered at the home of one of our members, Andrew Donoho, who
> bravely
> >> offered up his 2004 Toyota Prius to receive the EV-mode kit from
the
> >> folks at Coastal Electronic Technologies. ...The result was a Prius
> >> that drove in silence to 34mph. The disappointing part was the
range.
> >> While the battery pack is well-suited to hybrid use, it's sadly too
> >> small to be very useful as an EV pack.
> >
> > Friend Geoff Shepherd has his new '05 model that he equipped with
the
> Euro
> > option of the 'EV' button, also. It does the same thing and makes
one
> wish
> > for a bigger battery pack, or a LiIon type of the same weight, and
an
> > on-board plug in charger.
> >
> > See Ya.....John Wayland
> >
>
> My wife and I test drove the new Toyota Highlander Hybrid the other
day.
> The salesman did a pretty good job of trying
> to educate us on how hybrid technology works. He was adamant though,
> that the hybrids would not get their EPA rated
> mileage. I told him about John's stories, but he wasn't hearing it. I
> also told him I was upset that I couldn't buy a
> Rav4-EV. No comment. He just said that hybrids are the future and
Toyota
> plans to make them an option in 70% of their
> models.
>
> As we were going for the test drive. My wife was driving, I was in the
> back seat and he was in the passenger seat
> explaining the power flow. For those not familiar, Toyota has a cool
> display on the dash that shows graphically which
> way the power is being distributed in the system. We started to
descend
> a small hill and he remarked, "See the system
> is using regenerative braking to capture some energy to re-charge the
> battery. This is energy that would be wasted in
> a non-hybrid car but is stored in the hybrid to be re-used for
> acceleration. In fact I get a lot of customers that ask
> where or how often they have to plug the car in, and I have to explain
> to them that they don't. The car will take care
> of the battery on it's own. Notice just going down this hill the
battery
> has already filled up two more bars."
>
> At this point I simply commented.. " Yeah but it sure would be nice if
I
> COULD plug it in, and not need gas."
>
> At which point, my wife echoed enthusiastically, "Yeah! That would be
> SWEET!"
>
> He just sat there with a puzzled look on his face.
>
> Nice truck, but I'm not spending 42 grand for it. I'll wait for a
> Foxtrot or a Freedom first.
>
>
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> "Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left
> untreated, it develops into Arrogance, which is often
> fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
>
> Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
> send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- djsharpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What happens to the Prius if you are descending a
> long/steep hill & have
> charged up the battery pack & it cannot accept
> anymore charge? David
>
This very rarely happens. I have been driving my '04
for 1 1/2 years now, and it only happened twice. Both
times when I was on hilly mountain roads. You have to
pay attention to notice that you loose your regen.
The Prius would just behave like a normal car and use
its friction brakes. And, it is smart enough to use
more electric power once you arrive at level or at an
uphill.
You also have the option to engage engine compression
braking by using the "B" mode. But, I have not find
it necessary to use it yet.
Ed Ang
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What type of CD would you expect for a Corvette (C3s/'68-'82)?
0.350
http://www.mayfco.com/chevy.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had no idea there were such lists. Do you have one for Volkswagens?
Specifically Rabbits and Cabriolets?
-Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van
conversion
> What type of CD would you expect for a Corvette (C3s/'68-'82)?
0.350
http://www.mayfco.com/chevy.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>What type of CD would you expect for a Corvette
>(C3s/'68-'82)?
About .4-.45 or so(Depending on year of that model). It
wasn't until the C4 that aerodynamics became a big concern
for the Corvette. The C4 achieved a .34. The search result I
found comparing the Lumina minivan to the Corvette in drag
coefficient was comparing the new(At the date the post was
made) C5, which had a .29, and the author of the post
claimed the Lumina minivan had a .30. The new C6 also
achieved a .28.
With a nice weight reduction, the post C4 Corvettes would
make excellent EVs. They appear to have plenty of room for
batteries after you remove all the ICE crap, the aerodynamic
body is a nice plus, and getting a glider weight down to
about 1,900 pounds is a possibility. That would also be one
expensive conversion, and Vette lovers would scream bloody
murder.
As for the Dymaxion EV, what purpose would be for the EV?
Other builds besides basic transport could be in order. How
about a musclecar? Or a 4-door sedan? Perhaps an affordable
supercar? Luxury car? Pickup truck?
For the supercar, the Opel Eco Speedster looks to be a good
model, with a 15.8 square foot frontal area, .20 coefficient
drag, and only 1,500 pound curb weight:
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/speedster_eco.asp
Nearly 100 miles per American gallon and tops 150 mph.
Engine is only 112 horsepower. Think of what an AC150 and
500 pounds of lithium would do to this thing keeping the
transmission.
For a four-door economy car, the GM Precept is a good model,
with a .19 coefficient drag and nearly 90 miles per American
gallon:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/concept_cars/1267946.html
Luxury car? As far back as 1935, Tatra's T77a achieved a .21
coefficient drag:
http://www.tatra.demon.nl/cars_history_T77_T77A.htm
Phil Knox got his pickup truck, a Toyota T100, from about
42 Cd to .25:
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=870
For an electric musclecar, I envision a design taking after
the Ford Talladega. Something more aerodynamic, but still
just as fierce looking and drool-inducing. The 1969 Dodge
Charger Daytona apparantly achieved a .28:
http://www.allpar.com/model/superbird.html
These aerodynamics are possibile today, and even using lead
acid batteries, an EV with aerodynamics this good could
easily exceed 100 miles per charge without too many
batteries. Energy consumptions of even less than 130 wh/mile
@ 65 mph is doable, even with something like an electric
musclecar, provided that glider weight is kept down and
proper efficiency is paid to brakes, wheel bearings,
transmission, ect. Similar cars to the examples listed above
turned to EVs wouldn't have a big problem garnering sales,
as aside from the Opel, all of the above styles are
practical for families, would be inexpensive to run,
stylish, and would allow more range to be achieved on less
batteries.
Even using lead, 100+ miles range would not be bad with fast
charge infrastructure to top the pack back off in 20-30
minutes Rudman style. A musclecar that can seat 5 running on
batteries costing $25,000-30,000 or so, factory finish,
100-120 miles range, using a DC drive, and pulling 13s in
the 1/4 mile would have a much easier time getting public
acceptance and perhaps sales among the 'normals' than some
50 mph three-wheeled cockroach that cost one-third that.
The problem comes in getting the auto industry to budge when
they rather like their aftermarket services, routine
maintenace, and short vehicle life of about 100,000-150,000
miles, and getting around BS regulations that mandate $400
million crash tests when a $2 million one could do just as
well. But the lobbying continues in congress and elsewhere
and nothing gets done. I hope people like gas prices
catching up with reality. In a true free market, they'd have
a choice with the technology that's now viable, but they
don't.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some very interesting and informative formulas for automobiles.
http://www.mayfco.com/analyses.htm
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach writes:
>
> Does the electrolyte in NiCDs do the same thing to sheet steel? How
> about other things like copper? Should I have a liner in the Elec-trak
> battery box to prevent wash-off from the batteries from getting on the
> steel? Is plastic safe as a liner?
I'm not sure about steel, but the electrolyte in NiCDs will make raw copper
turn into an interesting blue fuzz and it can disolve aluminum. It doesn't
bother HDPE (milk jug plastic) at all.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Found this http://www.mayfco.com/tbls.htm
which has CD for many vehicles.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van conversion
>> What type of CD would you expect for a Corvette (C3s/'68-'82)?
>
> 0.350
>
>
> http://www.mayfco.com/chevy.htm
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure about steel, but the electrolyte in NiCDs will make raw copper
turn into an interesting blue fuzz and it can disolve aluminum. It doesn't
bother HDPE (milk jug plastic) at all.
*nod* The blue stuff is copper sulfate; extreme poison.
I put the liner in the tractor bed; now I can wash down the batteries
and have the water drain out the bottom of the tractor.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What happens to the Prius if you are descending a long/steep hill & have
charged up the battery pack & it cannot accept anymore charge? David
Typical result:
http://www.spankyspangler.com/pics/flames01.JPG
*snort*
What happens is the same thing that happens on my Prizm; the regen
circuitry cuts out and you rely more on your main brakes.
This is why you have to design an EV braking system to not rely on the
regen at all. I live at the top of a hill, and going down it in the
morning I can feel the main brakes crunching away.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the John L BB600 NiCD interconnects arrived at the house, along
with real stainless bolts and lock washers. I installed them on the pack
of 30 cells in the back of the Elec-trak and took it for a spin.
What an IMPROVEMENT! First off they are much easier to install than 10
gauge wire and crimps. Second there is no voltage drop to speak of. Want
to power right up a hill? The voltage will not drop. And when you're
done and pop the hood, all the interconnects are stone cold.
I can not recommend these things enough. This is the right solution. And
with the nickel it won't corrode or decay over time.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BoyntonStu wrote:
> Locating freewheel suppliers is my problem as well.
>
> Anyone know of freewheel sources that could be adapted to either chain or
>belts?
Thread on bicycle freewheels?
http://danscomp.shoplocal.com/danscomp/Default.aspx?action=browsecategoryl2&storeid=2418069&cattreeid=136088&featuredcategorydropdown=2%3A136088
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HELP ! I only received 14 of 33 messages in digest 4512. Does anyone know how
do we prevent this, and where did the rest of the list go?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
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* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
William Brinsmead wrote:
> HELP ! I only received 14 of 33 messages in digest 4512. Does anyone know
> >how do we prevent this, and where did the rest of the list go?
This appears to show all 33 messages from digest 4512:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/message/33020
You can view the individual messages here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow~
The Viper is 0.520!
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van conversion
Found this http://www.mayfco.com/tbls.htm
which has CD for many vehicles.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van
conversion
What type of CD would you expect for a Corvette (C3s/'68-'82)?
0.350
http://www.mayfco.com/chevy.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was looking at capacity ratings of batteries and
> Trojan seems to have more
> amp hour capacity than other manufacturers with less
> weight on their 12v
Depends on the case as they use the same case for
several amphr sizes so you can get better cap/weight
by getting the most lead in a given case.
Also some are more conseratively rated than
others.
> batteries. I noticed U. S. has a heavier
> battery(slightly) with slightly
> less capacity(EV - 145). I am under the impression
Maybe rated at higher power draws? Generally for the
same lead, these batts should give the same cap. Best
seems to be the T125 size in both companies as they
use the same case as the T105's so all the extra
weight is lead!! They also seem to have heavier
interconnects allowing higher amp draws without as
high penalties.
> that this battery was
> made specifically for EV's. Saves about 1/3 the
> weight to get 120v pack.
Are you talking about the 6v GC or 12v floor
sweeper version?
> Any chance that heavier battery will be more
> durable? Seems the more weight
> the better for durability. I also found out that
Usually.
> the 8v U.S. batteries at
> least use the same technology as as their 6v
> counterparts.
Trojan does the same with theirs.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is Canada only, unfortunately, but this site has ultra-light
Japanese kei cars for sale, they're about 15 years old (as that is when
they can import them legally). $5,000 - $8,000.
http://www.japanoid.com/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out thesamba.com or vwvortex.com
Quoting "Jamie Marshall (GAMES)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I had no idea there were such lists. Do you have one for Volkswagens?
Specifically Rabbits and Cabriolets?
-Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground effect and Van
conversion
What type of CD would you expect for a Corvette (C3s/'68-'82)?
0.350
http://www.mayfco.com/chevy.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rush and All,
--- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Found this http://www.mayfco.com/tbls.htm
> which has CD for many vehicles.
>
Thanks, they were interesting.
John W, thanks for your links which showed several
good ways to better aero thus more range at speed.
On the older Corvette, with some mods, it's aero
drag could be lower a fair amount as most cars, ect.
Today I saw an APV Chevy dustbuster van and was
even more impressed in how it could be converted to
and EV, much better than a Blazer, ect with much more
room, lower frontal area and much lower CD.
It would be a great one for Ni cads or lithium
batts giving great range while seating many!! If one
needs to seat 5 to 7 lightweight kids, this van would
be excellent.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >> What type of CD would you expect for a Corvette
> (C3s/'68-'82)?
> >
> > 0.350
> >
> >
> > http://www.mayfco.com/chevy.htm
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a friction drive on my recumbent trike.
Yes, it is only 1.5 hp but the tire is just 2" across.
At first, I had wear problems, but it was solved after grinding spline-like
grooves into the driver and smoothing down the cross hatch peaks.
The Honda GX-31 works great with the friction drive and there is absolutely
no noticeable wear.
Does anyone have any idea of how much power could a friction drive transfer
to a 5" across tire?
There is a goal that could be achieved if this would work at about 10hp.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a friction drive on my recumbent trike.
Yes, it is only 1.5 hp but the tire is just 2" across.
At first, I had wear problems, but it was solved after grinding spline-like
grooves into the driver and smoothing down the cross hatch peaks.
The Honda GX-31 works great with the friction drive and there is absolutely
no noticeable wear.
Does anyone have any idea of how much power could a friction drive transfer
to a 5" across tire?
There is a goal that could be achieved if this would work at about 10hp.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm thinking of putting the following circuit on each of my TS cells to
prevent undervoltage usage. 2.8V is the cutoff. The opto outputs from all
the cells will be paralleled together and attached to the throttle leads of
the 1231C controller. Should any cell fall below around 2.8V, this will
create a near-zero-ohm pathway (regardless of the resistance on the PB-6)
and cut power to the motor.
This is my first attempt at an op-amp circuit, so please let me know if
anything needs to be changed. One particular question: the opto can handle
50mA max--does the 1231C put more than 50mA through its throttle leads when
there are zero ohms? Thanks.
+ -------------------------
| 10K | |
| Pot +-----+ 4464 +--------+ ___ to 1231C throttle
| | |------|- | |
| +-----+ Ohms | LM-741 |___ |
_|_ | | OP-AMP | | |
_\_/_-------)--1.25V--|+ | +--------+
| REF- | +--------+ | OPTO |
| 3012 | | |H11A817C|
| | | +--------+
| | | \ |
| | | 100 / |
| | | Ohm \ |___ to 1231C throttle
| | | /
- ---------------------------------
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
> There is a friction drive on my recumbent trike.
> At first, I had wear problems, but it was solved after grinding spline-like
> grooves into the driver and smoothing down the cross hatch peaks.
This site has some interesting info on various types of friction drives:
http://www.motorizedfoldupbikes.com/clutches.htm#rollers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 18 Jul 2005 at 17:30, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Trojan, US & Interstate are the options footprint wise.
> Barring price would the Trojans be the ones? There the choice is the J150
> which is a new model or a 5HSP. The Interstate is the U 1450 & the US is the
> EV 145. They all weigh just under 90 pounds.
Interstate Workaholic is the same as US Battery. Generally USBMC products
are significantly less costly. They will sell directly to EV hobbyists at
discount, and will give you whatever type of terminals you want. They've
been supportive of hobbyist EV activities for at least 25 years.
Trojan has a slightly better rep, but they cost more and I've never known
them to deal with EVers directly. Around here, they are priced close to
list almost everywhere (if you can find them). Terminals are usually "take
what they give you." Trojan don't particularly care about EV hobbyists,
from what I can tell, but others may have an update on that.
Between these two, in practice, maintenance and charging regime will
probably make more difference in cycle life than brand will.
Floor sweeper batteries' construction is rather similar to golf car
batteries'. In theory they should last almost as long. They don't seem to
in many cases, but I think that may be partly because people who use them
tend to push them harder. They will almost certainly give longer service
than flooded marine batteries though.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/20/05, Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>What happens to the Prius if you are descending a long/steep hill & have
> >>charged up the battery pack & it cannot accept anymore charge? David
> >
> >
> > Typical result:
> >
> > http://www.spankyspangler.com/pics/flames01.JPG
>
> *snort*
>
> What happens is the same thing that happens on my Prizm; the regen
> circuitry cuts out and you rely more on your main brakes.
>
> This is why you have to design an EV braking system to not rely on the
> regen at all. I live at the top of a hill, and going down it in the
> morning I can feel the main brakes crunching away.
>
I have the same situation, but have never noticed the regen going away
on my Citroen. The (nicad) batteries and controller are water cooled,
so I think either the system just lets the batteries turn the
overcharge into heat, or maybe there's a big watercooled resistor
somewhere that cuts in to prevent overvoltage.
-
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.linear.com/designtools/softwareRegistration.jsp
Free Pspice program, works quite well!
Beats the heck out of wiring something up as a
first check on a circuit.
Rod
--- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm thinking of putting the following circuit on
> each of my TS cells to
> prevent undervoltage usage. 2.8V is the cutoff.
> The opto outputs from all
> the cells will be paralleled together and attached
> to the throttle leads of
> the 1231C controller. Should any cell fall below
> around 2.8V, this will
> create a near-zero-ohm pathway (regardless of the
> resistance on the PB-6)
> and cut power to the motor.
>
> This is my first attempt at an op-amp circuit, so
> please let me know if
> anything needs to be changed. One particular
> question: the opto can handle
> 50mA max--does the 1231C put more than 50mA through
> its throttle leads when
> there are zero ohms? Thanks.
>
> + -------------------------
> | 10K | |
> | Pot +-----+ 4464 +--------+ ___ to
> 1231C throttle
>
> | | |------|- | |
>
> | +-----+ Ohms | LM-741 |___ |
>
> _|_ | | OP-AMP | | |
> _\_/_-------)--1.25V--|+ | +--------+
> | REF- | +--------+ | OPTO |
> | 3012 | | |H11A817C|
> | | | +--------+
> | | | \ |
> | | | 100 / |
> | | | Ohm \ |___ to
> 1231C throttle
> | | | /
> - ---------------------------------
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought Trojan T-105's from a dealer 4 years ago for about $52 apiece -
some commented at the time that this was a very good price.
BTW, the dealer (wholesaler) was VERY supportive of EV's!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: 12v Flooded battery advice.
> On 18 Jul 2005 at 17:30, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > Trojan, US & Interstate are the options footprint wise.
> > Barring price would the Trojans be the ones? There the choice is the
J150
> > which is a new model or a 5HSP. The Interstate is the U 1450 & the US
is the
> > EV 145. They all weigh just under 90 pounds.
>
> Interstate Workaholic is the same as US Battery. Generally USBMC products
> are significantly less costly. They will sell directly to EV hobbyists at
> discount, and will give you whatever type of terminals you want. They've
> been supportive of hobbyist EV activities for at least 25 years.
>
> Trojan has a slightly better rep, but they cost more and I've never known
> them to deal with EVers directly. Around here, they are priced close to
> list almost everywhere (if you can find them). Terminals are usually
"take
> what they give you." Trojan don't particularly care about EV hobbyists,
> from what I can tell, but others may have an update on that.
>
> Between these two, in practice, maintenance and charging regime will
> probably make more difference in cycle life than brand will.
>
> Floor sweeper batteries' construction is rather similar to golf car
> batteries'. In theory they should last almost as long. They don't seem
to
> in many cases, but I think that may be partly because people who use them
> tend to push them harder. They will almost certainly give longer service
> than flooded marine batteries though.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A vehicle licensing idea
In the state of Florida, all 3 wheel vehicles are considered motorcycles.
There are fewer fees, insurance, and other requirements.
Almost anything goes.
Doesn't it follow logically that if one removed the 2 wheels from a 'car'
and replaced them with a single rear wheel, we would have a 'motorcycle'?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have the same situation, but have never noticed the regen going away
on my Citroen. The (nicad) batteries and controller are water cooled,
so I think either the system just lets the batteries turn the
overcharge into heat, or maybe there's a big watercooled resistor
somewhere that cuts in to prevent overvoltage.
*nod* Probably also because NiCDs can take the high currents when full.
AGMs get really upset when you try to pump 100amps into them when
they're loaded.
What the Dolphin seems to do is limit the max battery voltage to 362
volts (14.48 volts) on regen. This keeps the batteries safe; regen
current will only be about 5 amps or so when the pack is full. However
this is a great time to be using AC/Heat/Etc as the power is free.
By contrast when on the highway at 75mph and I go for an off ramp I can
drop the car into "L" (not a gear, actually calls for max safe regen)
and the car will slow down *FAST* with 150 amps going into the pack.
Interestingly enough I have done this on wet roads and snow, yet the car
does not lock up (ok, not 75 on snow, think parking lots). I think the
Dolphin code includes bits to detect front wheel lock up and drop the
regen back.
If you're thinking regen, please keep these items in mind: (1) Regen
doesn't work too well when the batteries are full and (2) You really
should put in some sort of antilock code or logic in to keep the car
from locking the drive wheels when you touch the brake (due to max
regen). I think Solectra had a "bad weather" button to limit regen; I'd
recommend something a bit more automatic.
Chris
-
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/20/05, Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have the same situation, but have never noticed the regen going away
> > on my Citroen. The (nicad) batteries and controller are water cooled,
> > so I think either the system just lets the batteries turn the
> > overcharge into heat, or maybe there's a big watercooled resistor
> > somewhere that cuts in to prevent overvoltage.
>
> *nod* Probably also because NiCDs can take the high currents when full.
> AGMs get really upset when you try to pump 100amps into them when
> they're loaded.
So do Li-Ions :)
> By contrast when on the highway at 75mph and I go for an off ramp I can
> drop the car into "L" (not a gear, actually calls for max safe regen)
> and the car will slow down *FAST* with 150 amps going into the pack.
> Interestingly enough I have done this on wet roads and snow, yet the car
> does not lock up (ok, not 75 on snow, think parking lots). I think the
> Dolphin code includes bits to detect front wheel lock up and drop the
> regen back.
I guess the wheels won't really lock under regen braking, but I've
certainly noticed wheel "slip" under heavy regen, with mud on the
road, it doesn't sound like skidding but you can feel the vehicle
isn't slowing down as fast. It's definitely something to be aware of
though, since you'd have to step on the accellerator again (or knock
it into neutral) in order to steer out of a situation like that.
> If you're thinking regen, please keep these items in mind: (1) Regen
> doesn't work too well when the batteries are full and (2) You really
> should put in some sort of antilock code or logic in to keep the car
> from locking the drive wheels when you touch the brake (due to max
> regen). I think Solectra had a "bad weather" button to limit regen; I'd
> recommend something a bit more automatic.
You could do it by sensing the speed difference between the front and
back wheels. Could use the same sensor / pulse wheel setup as for
normal ABS.
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is an excellent article "Hydrogen economy: energy and economic black hole"
with many good references, percentages and information on H2 & fool cells. Good
info for arguing the H2 vs EV's/hybrids efficiencies.
I love the line (after multiplying all the innefficiencies) "If you don't
understand this (hydrogen) concept, please mail me ten dollars and I'll send
you a dollar".
http://www.energybulletin.net/4541.html
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I was in GA, my neighbor and her parents had a number of converted VWs,
including 2 bugs and a Karmann Ghia that had only one wheel in front. They
were VW from the front firewall on back for one bug. The Karmann Ghia was VW
from the back seat back. They were registered as motorcycles, with the small
license plate and all. They had to wear helmets whenever they rode in (on?)
them.
With enough patience,
you can milk a porcupine
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 6:27 AM
Subject: A vehicle licensing idea
A vehicle licensing idea
In the state of Florida, all 3 wheel vehicles are considered motorcycles.
There are fewer fees, insurance, and other requirements.
Almost anything goes.
Doesn't it follow logically that if one removed the 2 wheels from a 'car'
and replaced them with a single rear wheel, we would have a 'motorcycle'?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Finding a one-way clutch that doesn't have a lot of drag, is a reasonable
size and can handle a bunch of torque is pretty hard. Here's something I
came across while playing with an HPV years ago:
http://www.epilogics.com/md/
HTH,
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just e-mailed them and they said that they are working at making these
available in the US. See attached:
Quoting James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi,
>
> I live in the US. I was wondering if there is any way to purchase
these
> vehicles and use them legally on US roads? I bet it is just wishful
> thinking, but if not I'm quite interested.
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School.
>
>
>
>
Hi James,
We are working on a way to get cars down to the states.
Around September we'll post info on our site that will let you know how
it can
be done. Until then, make sure you sign up for a car. Then in all
likelyhood
you'll be picking you car up from Washington State.
thanks!
Peter
Now Washington state really sux for us right coasters, but if there is
interest we might be able to go in as a group and get a carrier full
delivered at a discount.
Anybody else interested?
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
I wonder how much HP would a pair of 'good' quality bicycle freewheels take
if used in parallel?
Any idea?
Just a thought.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Tromley
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: One-way clutch (was Freewheel...)
Finding a one-way clutch that doesn't have a lot of drag, is a reasonable
size and can handle a bunch of torque is pretty hard. Here's something I
came across while playing with an HPV years ago:
http://www.epilogics.com/md/
HTH,
Chris
--- End Message ---
