EV Digest 4515
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ford Rangers
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A vehicle licensing idea
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Not if you have EV's, Re: Exciting - No gasoline in Northwest Florida
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Capstone turbine on eBay
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ford Rangers
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Not if you have EV's, Re: Exciting - No gasoline in Northwest
Florida
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: A few NiMH's on eBay
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 12v Flooded battery advice.
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: One-way clutch (was Freewheel...)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) buddy pairs of different Ah ratings
by cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: A few NiMH's on eBay
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Not if you have EV's, Re: Exciting - No gasoline in Northwest Florida
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Not if you have EV's, Re: Exciting - No gasoline in Northwest Florida
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Not if you have EV's
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) RE: A few NiMH's on eBay
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) test
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Not if you have EV's, Re: Exciting - No gasoline in Northwest Florida
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Ford Rangers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: It did it AGAIN
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Not if you have EV's, Re: Exciting - No gasoline in Northwest Florida
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Old Prius batteries for use in EV
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Question about Peukert Exponent
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:buddy_pairs_of_different_Ah_ratings?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Question about Peukert Exponent
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: One-way clutch (was Freewheel...)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 4:31 PM -0700 on 7/20/05, Nick Austin wrote:
Recall that in the promotion, they mentioned that any left over Rangers would
be sold through Blue Sky Motors.
I did see that.
Do you know how many RangerEV's are left?
Do you know how many people are on the list?
Nope on both counts.
Did you give them your email address?
Perhaps they only sent this to people who emailed them?
I emailed them, so one would hope they had my address.
I both emailed and called. I wonder how many people just called?
Interesting question.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BoyntonStu wrote:
A vehicle licensing idea
In the state of Florida, all 3 wheel vehicles are considered motorcycles.
There are fewer fees, insurance, and other requirements.
Almost anything goes.
Doesn't it follow logically that if one removed the 2 wheels from a 'car'
and replaced them with a single rear wheel, we would have a 'motorcycle'?
If you want to see that idea taken to the extreme, visit:
http://www.geocities.com/doolenthreewheelers/DoolenHome.html
Everyone needs a 3 wheel 4 door Buick, right?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bet their wishing they were driving EV's right about
> now!
>
Happened here in Tampa last yr during our
hurricanes loosing both electric and gas for days. I
used my EV and ran my house on 12vdc and 120vac thru
an inverter off my 4 EV's so I had no problems as
others did.
I always keep 12vdc stuff like lights, fans, fridge
for just such problems. Actually my reg fridge is
12/120 so it just swithed itself when the power went
out.
Just another benefit of EV's!!!
Jerry Dycus
>
http://www.expertclick.com/NewsReleaseWire/default.cfm?Action=ReleaseDetail&ID=9594
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is junk left over from the AVS bankruptcy a couple of years ago
in Chattanooga, TN. This scrapyard is only about a mile from the old
factory and only about 5 miles from here. He has a whole row of AVS
e-bus shells sitting there with all the glass and other goodies
removed. I remember seeing those carcasses piled up behind the AVS
building after the bankruptcy.
That turbine looks like the same one I photographed at an NTRC
conference several years ago. The smeared silicone seal looks the
same. The turbine was in a prototype AVS hybrid bus.
This hybrid project is probably the major thing that killed the
company. They had lots and lots of problems. Fuzzy memory seems to
indicate that turbine reliability was one of 'em. I *might* risk a
kilobuck on that turbine. $10k? Not even smokin' really good stuff
:-)
John
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:35:27 -0400, Christopher Zach
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Looks like it came from one of those Broward hybrid busses. There's
>another bus on sale for less, but of course you need to do something
>with said bus.
>
>Chris
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 30kW output might make quite the hybrid!
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4394999470
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ford told us there will be 150-180 cars available. Ford told the LA
Times 200 cars. They haven't shared with us how they got this number
or where the cars are now or how many are still out on lease.
Ford told us there are about 450 people on their list, of which about
half are former leasees. The lottery, however, will be open to all
former leasees.
Fran Pilotti at Ford is the contact person. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Marc Geller
DontCrush.com
On Jul 20, 2005, at 4:55 PM, Michael Hurley wrote:
At 4:31 PM -0700 on 7/20/05, Nick Austin wrote:
Recall that in the promotion, they mentioned that any left over
Rangers would
be sold through Blue Sky Motors.
I did see that.
Do you know how many RangerEV's are left?
Do you know how many people are on the list?
Nope on both counts.
Did you give them your email address?
Perhaps they only sent this to people who emailed them?
I emailed them, so one would hope they had my address.
I both emailed and called. I wonder how many people just called?
Interesting question.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
Happened here in Tampa last yr during our
hurricanes loosing both electric and gas for days. I
used my EV and ran my house on 12vdc and 120vac thru
an inverter off my 4 EV's so I had no problems as
others did.
I always keep 12vdc stuff like lights, fans, fridge
for just such problems. Actually my reg fridge is
12/120 so it just swithed itself when the power went
out.
Just another benefit of EV's!!!
Jerry Dycus
Don't forget another one - you mentioned once you'd sleep in it
rather than stay in a motel during long trips. So in case of real
hurricane and all the houses ruined, you'll be just fine in your EV!
Speaking of others, the fact that everyone else is stranded, so no
businesses running, everything is dark and closed down and the roads
themselves may no longer exist, makes no difference. Congradulations,
you still can move.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris,
What battery charger do you have for NiCD/NiMH?
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:02 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: A few NiMH's on eBay
>
> > They are coming from crushed EV1's in GM's Mesa Arizona
> proving grounds.
>
> Makes sense, and at $50 a pop they are a hell of a steal.
>
> I've been chatting with the guy. Apparently people are
> deluging him with orders right now so he's gone from being
> friendly to quite direct.
> Anyone know how to get a shipper for picking a pallet up?
> Anyone in DC want to go in on a bunch?
>
> Yes, I know: I need these like I need a hole in my head. But
> I have this really great battery charger for NiCD/NiMH..........
>
> Chris
>
>
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
distribution or use of this information by a person other than the intended
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David and All,
Looking at battery notes from my last purchase (18,000 miles ago 08/03),
yes US batteries would have been cheaper than Trojan ($54 each at 24), but
shipping would have been $300 or $1596 for a pack. Dave Mason with U.S.
mentioned that although they would still sell directly to EV'ers, they no
longer liked doing that as it undercuts their local representatives. I
ended up paying $79 each (retail for one was $112!), or $1896 for a pack of
Trojan T-145's (special order for automotive terminals) that only took
three weeks to get through a local distributor (that is a DEVC club
sponsor). Since I had heard that Trojan's last 20-40% more miles than U.S.,
which Mark Hanson mentions below, and I couldn't share shipping costs with
someone else on a larger U.S. order at the time (and really don't like
changing batteries more often), the Trojan seemed like a better deal at the
time.
Hope this helps,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 03:23:13 -0400
>
<snip>
>Interstate Workaholic is the same as US Battery. Generally USBMC products
>are significantly less costly. They will sell directly to EV hobbyists at
>discount, and will give you whatever type of terminals you want. They've
>been supportive of hobbyist EV activities for at least 25 years.
>
>Trojan has a slightly better rep, but they cost more and I've never known
>them to deal with EVers directly. Around here, they are priced close to
>list almost everywhere (if you can find them). Terminals are usually "take
>what they give you." Trojan don't particularly care about EV hobbyists,
>from what I can tell, but others may have an update on that.
>
>Between these two, in practice, maintenance and charging regime will
>probably make more difference in cycle life than brand will.
>
>Floor sweeper batteries' construction is rather similar to golf car
>batteries'. In theory they should last almost as long. They don't seem to
>in many cases, but I think that may be partly because people who use them
>tend to push them harder. They will almost certainly give longer service
>than flooded marine batteries though.
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Trojan vs US batt, US batt phone number? Re: 12v Flooded
>battery advice.
>Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:05:38 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>US Battery at 653 Industrial Park Dr., Evans, Georgia is 1-800-522-0945 and
>Terry Agrileus at X20 is whom I ordered previously. Nuaz Kareshi - eng is
>the California location at 1-800-695-0945 and previously worked at Trojan.
>I get about 10k miles out of US and about 12-14k miles from Trojans over the
>last 30 years with 6v'ers doing about 1-2k miles better than 8v'ers. Best
>cost per mile was the USBatt 6V'ers as Trojan's have become pricey. I
>presently got a set of Exide's from Sam's in Jan and they replaced a dud (in
>4 months) for free. I tried sealed batts once but the cost per mile was
>poor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is accurate asking how much HP because they handle a surprizing
amount of torque, but at a low rpm.
Gears require 10 to 100 times the mass to achieve the same torque levels.
Just imagine a cyclist of 250 lbs out of the saddle, standing on the
pedals, This is more torque than my mistsubishi PU engine generates,
(ok, bad example)
most humans can only put out 120 rpm for any length of time.
I haven't really been folowing your project, so forgive me if this has
already been addressed
The guys that sell motion equipment have some freewheels that fit
sdtandard bearing bores, some combined with the load bearings, some
designed to work directly on a shaft you provide. I grabbed the catalog
from this company.
http://www.inausa.com/prg_download/
Look at the roller clutches catalog, the local bearing houses stock
these or can get them.
Also another idea is to find something from an automatic transmission
shop. Automatics use beefy roller clutches by the dozen, but most
require the case to be there.
These guys supply most tranny shops out here and have a online catalog
that works in demo mode for one type of tranny. If you look at the
pieces 970,824,182 from the geartrain page you will see a "sprag" which
is the name for the particular type overrun/freewheel clutch they
use. http://www.slauson.com
also item 928/662 in "plates" picture. They stor in fresno has a book of
all the tranny parts(i am buying the CD next week) and honda trannies
have more generic and usefull parts than others it seems.
HTH
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've finally started commuting in my EVT, and have a great ev grin. The
ride is about 16 miles each way with a few small hills. The last 2
miles of my trip home, there is a 1-2% grade that really sucks down the
juice, however.
While the battery pack is just fine for my current commute, there is
the chance that I will be needing another 8 miles in each direction if
I change jobs - not something that my current batteries could handle.
I have 4 B&B eb50 batteries
(http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/EB/EB50-12.pdf) and room for
some smaller batteries in my saddlebags and topcase. Not enough room
for four more of the EB50s though.
If I were able to find room for four lower Ah batteries, is it alright
or not a good idea to buddy pair them with the 50Ah ones? How about
making a second 48v string and using that in parallel?
-Cristin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Homebuilt. I'm working with the TI BQ2003/2004 series of chips to
control charging and seeing how it works. They're nice chips, have the
ability to pulse output and measure current to control fast/slow/trickle
charging and have enough brains to handle the -dv/dt and dtemp/dt
functions. As well as a timeout mode.
Problem is the longest timeout mode is C/4 so you need to build a CC
source that can be pulsed for 20+amps at whatever voltage for the big
blocks. I'm using them with a NFet based 10amp charge circuit, and it
seems to work pretty well for the NiCDs. However it bulged two of the
Prizmatic modules on the first try out.
Back to drawing board.
Chris
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
Hi Chris,
What battery charger do you have for NiCD/NiMH?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A few NiMH's on eBay
They are coming from crushed EV1's in GM's Mesa Arizona
proving grounds.
Makes sense, and at $50 a pop they are a hell of a steal.
I've been chatting with the guy. Apparently people are
deluging him with orders right now so he's gone from being
friendly to quite direct.
Anyone know how to get a shipper for picking a pallet up?
Anyone in DC want to go in on a bunch?
Yes, I know: I need these like I need a hole in my head. But
I have this really great battery charger for NiCD/NiMH..........
Chris
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
distribution or use of this information by a person other than the intended
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:42:38 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Don't forget another one - you mentioned once you'd sleep in it
>rather than stay in a motel during long trips. So in case of real
>hurricane and all the houses ruined, you'll be just fine in your EV!
>
>Speaking of others, the fact that everyone else is stranded, so no
>businesses running, everything is dark and closed down and the roads
>themselves may no longer exist, makes no difference. Congradulations,
>you still can move.
Well yeah, for a little while. When the batteries run down, he's SOL.
Take my little motorhome, in contrast. With 60 gallons of gas and 20
gallons of propane onboard, I can drive well over 1000 miles to find
relief. I can also run the AC, cook, bathe, run the lights and even
recharge an EV.
I used to go down to Fl or SC and do volunteer recovery work after
hurricanes when I was still able. After a long day of driving a
chainsaw, it was sure nice to climb into the MH, crank the genny, take
a warm shower, eat a nice meal and then relax in the cool while
everywhere around me the power and water was off and folks were
melting in their own sweat. yeah, I'll take my MH any day.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor, John and All,
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:42:38 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >Don't forget another one - you mentioned once you'd
> sleep in it
> >rather than stay in a motel during long trips. So
> in case of real
> >hurricane and all the houses ruined, you'll be just
> fine in your EV!
Yes I can, I figured sometime I may have to wait
to get charged so figured I'd build in a sleeping
space so I could be confortable and for long distance
with a gen to avoid motel costs..
> >
> >Speaking of others, the fact that everyone else is
> stranded, so no
> >businesses running, everything is dark and closed
> down and the roads
> >themselves may no longer exist, makes no
> difference. Congradulations,
> >you still can move.
It was nice ;-) EV's rule!!
>
> Well yeah, for a little while. When the batteries
> run down, he's SOL.
There you go again, assuming!!!
You must be real pleasant at times John, always
looking at the negative side of things!!
Of course I have ways to recharge. First is my DC
gen and I could go to areas that had power a mile or 2
away and charge up. But with 4 small EV's, I have 3+
days before any charging is needed, a week if I don't
use the AC, just fans instead.
I lived onboard a cruising sailboat most of my
life that rarely was at dock, rather anchored out so I
know how to live without grid power comfortably.
>
> Take my little motorhome, in contrast. With 60
> gallons of gas and 20
> gallons of propane onboard, I can drive well over
> 1000 miles to find
> relief. I can also run the AC, cook, bathe, run the
> lights and even
> recharge an EV.
In 3 days I used a gal of gas and had AC,
microwave, shower and all the convinences of home
since I was at home, not hiding somewhere!!
And in this heat I would never heat water for a
shower!! The colder the better!! I turn my water
heater off 3/4 of the yr as not needed anyway.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> I used to go down to Fl or SC and do volunteer
> recovery work after
> hurricanes when I was still able. After a long day
> of driving a
> chainsaw, it was sure nice to climb into the MH,
> crank the genny, take
> a warm shower, eat a nice meal and then relax in the
> cool while
> everywhere around me the power and water was off and
> folks were
> melting in their own sweat. yeah, I'll take my MH
> any day.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >Speaking of others, the fact that everyone else is stranded, so no
> >businesses running, everything is dark and closed down and the roads
> >themselves may no longer exist, makes no difference. Congradulations,
> >you still can move.
>
> Well yeah, for a little while. When the batteries run down, he's SOL.
>
> Take my little motorhome, in contrast. With 60 gallons of gas and 20
> gallons of propane onboard, I can drive well over 1000 miles to find
> relief. I can also run the AC, cook, bathe, run the lights and even
> recharge an EV.
>
> I used to go down to Fl or SC and do volunteer recovery work after
> hurricanes when I was still able. After a long day of driving a
> chainsaw, it was sure nice to climb into the MH, crank the genny, take
> a warm shower, eat a nice meal and then relax in the cool while
> everywhere around me the power and water was off and folks were
> melting in their own sweat. yeah, I'll take my MH any day.
>
Yup, certainly nice to have plenty of fuel onboard! Also, nice to have a
productive use for one -- around here, it seems motorhomes sit unused so much,
you wonder if they get moved even once a year! I think the owners must use them
as spare rooms; other than proving they have the money to waste or fulfilling a
need to park something big in the driveway, why not just rent one when they
need it for a vacation?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Chris,
I just bought some of these Ovonic 13.2v 85AH NiMH batteries. Are there
any commercial BMS or battery chargers that would be suitable for these?
We have a 10kW Solar system, so I was thinking of 15 for backup use and
15 for an EV. With Peak Oil coming, might as well hedge my bets :)
Thanks,
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 6:43 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: A few NiMH's on eBay
>
> Homebuilt. I'm working with the TI BQ2003/2004 series of
> chips to control charging and seeing how it works. They're
> nice chips, have the ability to pulse output and measure
> current to control fast/slow/trickle charging and have enough
> brains to handle the -dv/dt and dtemp/dt functions. As well
> as a timeout mode.
>
> Problem is the longest timeout mode is C/4 so you need to
> build a CC source that can be pulsed for 20+amps at whatever
> voltage for the big blocks. I'm using them with a NFet based
> 10amp charge circuit, and it seems to work pretty well for
> the NiCDs. However it bulged two of the Prizmatic modules on
> the first try out.
>
> Back to drawing board.
>
> Chris
>
> Noel P. Luneau wrote:
>
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > What battery charger do you have for NiCD/NiMH?
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> >>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:02 PM
> >>To: [email protected]
> >>Subject: Re: A few NiMH's on eBay
> >>
> >>
> >>>They are coming from crushed EV1's in GM's Mesa Arizona
> >>
> >>proving grounds.
> >>
> >>Makes sense, and at $50 a pop they are a hell of a steal.
> >>
> >>I've been chatting with the guy. Apparently people are deluging him
> >>with orders right now so he's gone from being friendly to quite
> >>direct.
> >>Anyone know how to get a shipper for picking a pallet up?
> >>Anyone in DC want to go in on a bunch?
> >>
> >>Yes, I know: I need these like I need a hole in my head. But I have
> >>this really great battery charger for NiCD/NiMH..........
> >>
> >>Chris
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential
> and privileged information. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return
> e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
> distribution or use of this information by a person other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
test
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:19:37 -0700 (PDT), jerry dycus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In 3 days I used a gal of gas and had AC,
>microwave, shower and all the convinences of home
>since I was at home, not hiding somewhere!!
OK, I'll bite. I want to know how you had AC on 1/3 gal of gas a day.
"Real" AC, you know, 70 degrees, 50% humidity and all that, and not
460 AC (4 windows down, 60 mph.) That sounds pretty close to perpetual
motion.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I requested to be put on a waiting list for the Ranger.EV. I also got the
email. Now that the Electravan is working so well I think I have more cost
effective vehicle. At least very low maintanance.
There seem to be now a couple of businesses related to Ford in Sacramento
that work on factory EV's. The battery rejuvenation company and Bluesky.
Maybe Sacramento will become a center for electric cars. It sure could use
it. Real bad air quality. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Ford Rangers
On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 05:47:07PM -0500, Michael Hurley wrote:
At 2:58 PM -0700 on 7/20/05, Nick Austin wrote:
>On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 05:36:04PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I just received an email from Ford about the Ranger EVs with the
>> following
>> info in a PDF. Unfortunatly I wasn't a lease holder so I guess this
>> doesn't
>> apply to me.
>>
>
>Did you notice that there were only 243 email addresses in that
>announcement?
>
>Does that mean that these were the only people who expressed interest?
>
>How many Rangers are left? Perhaps, with so few people on the list,
>there
>will
>be enough for everybody?
Huh. I contacted Ford about convincing them not to crush the
RangerEVs, and that I'd be interested in getting one. I was not a
lessee, so I'm not particularly hopeful of ever getting one, but I
didn't get the email mentioned above.
Recall that in the promotion, they mentioned that any left over Rangers
would
be sold through Blue Sky Motors.
Do you know how many RangerEV's are left?
Do you know how many people are on the list?
Did you give them your email address?
Perhaps they only sent this to people who emailed them?
I both emailed and called. I wonder how many people just called?
Thanks!
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On 19 Jul 2005 at 17:39, William Brinsmead wrote:
> HELP ! I only received 14 of 33 messages in digest 4512. Does anyone know how
> do we prevent this, and where did the rest of the list go?
I'm investigating this ...
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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I have a forty foot bus conversion with eight solar
panels and a trailer with seven more. It gives me a
total of 1.7 k of capacity. I use the excess power to
heat my water with propane to top off the evening if
needed. It runs my fridge, toilet, stove, and all my
lights with enough extra to run my artcar at
burningman. I have a 3.5k inverter with a 1000
amphaour battery pack. I haven't had to plug the thing
in in three years! we had a power outage yesterday and
the wife and I went out to the bus to watch tv. I love
not having a generator running.
Gadget
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:42:38 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >Don't forget another one - you mentioned once you'd
> sleep in it
> >rather than stay in a motel during long trips. So
> in case of real
> >hurricane and all the houses ruined, you'll be just
> fine in your EV!
> >
> >Speaking of others, the fact that everyone else is
> stranded, so no
> >businesses running, everything is dark and closed
> down and the roads
> >themselves may no longer exist, makes no
> difference. Congradulations,
> >you still can move.
>
> Well yeah, for a little while. When the batteries
> run down, he's SOL.
>
> Take my little motorhome, in contrast. With 60
> gallons of gas and 20
> gallons of propane onboard, I can drive well over
> 1000 miles to find
> relief. I can also run the AC, cook, bathe, run the
> lights and even
> recharge an EV.
>
> I used to go down to Fl or SC and do volunteer
> recovery work after
> hurricanes when I was still able. After a long day
> of driving a
> chainsaw, it was sure nice to climb into the MH,
> crank the genny, take
> a warm shower, eat a nice meal and then relax in the
> cool while
> everywhere around me the power and water was off and
> folks were
> melting in their own sweat. yeah, I'll take my MH
> any day.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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Dear Chris
My charger outputs 16A. Divide that into the 14 parallel strings means
about 1A. Perhaps all that is needed is to detect heat to terminate
charge?????
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Thursday, 21 July 2005 9:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Old Prius batteries for use in EV
I would recommend caution before going this route.
The problem is that figuring out a way to *charge* the batteries might
be more complicated than you think. NiMH is a lot harder than NiCD; the
voltage drop at end of charge is less, and if you overcharge them they
will be toast. Undercharge them and they will be toast. Try to trickle
charge them and once again, toast.
I am working hard on charging circuits for NiCD and NiMH. I have a Prius
pack, and while they do put out a lot of power, charging them is tricky.
If I charge at 3amps using my dv/dt logic they charge fine. Last night I
tried a 6.5ah charge (C) and the battery cells ballooned. Not good. They
didn't seem to gas, however if they were restricted they probably would
have. Need to figure out why and look at my temp and voltage probes.
On the other hand the logic did spot the saddle. However it's very
small, meaning you have to implement sensors every 12 cells or so (2
batteries). This is not going to be simple.
Chris
djsharpe wrote:
> The older Prius has 38 off 7.2V 6.5Ahr NiMH blocks 288V, 274V total.
Cut
> & parallel & you have 137V 13Ahr. Get 7 more & you have 91Ahrs &
300kgs
> mass. It might be of interest to get wrecked Prius batteries for
> straight EVs with packs from 120V to 300V range.
> If list members think this has merit I would like to import 7 old
packs
> which would require a paid volunteer to find same for me to import to
> Australia. We don't have enough Prius here to get this number in a
> reasonable time. The task would suit another person wanting to do the
> same in the US most likely. The newer model uses 28 strings but could
> still be used. New packs are out of the question due to cost.
> Pl contact off list [EMAIL PROTECTED] after this has been
> discussed.
> David
>
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Hi, I was trying to understand exactly how the Peukert Exponent works.
I've read what's out on the web, most is the same thing copied over and
over again but I'm having trouble buying exactly what seems to be said.
(I'm an experienced EE, current, voltage, amp-hrs are quite well
understood). For the sake of this question, please put aside the
additional issues of how unwise it is to totally drain batteries and
such, I'm interested in what Peukert's Exp truly means.
OK, so a 100 amp-hr lead acid battery will yield 100 amp-hrs at a low
discharge rate. That would be until the terminal voltage reaches 10.5v.
And say that same battery under 50 amps load yields only 75 amp-hrs. I
understand this to mean that this still means the capacity until the
terminal voltage reaches 10.5v.
Here is what I am unclear on. At the end of the high discharge case,
are 100 amp-hrs drained from the battery leaving its state-of-charge at
0%, or are 75 amp-hrs drained and the state of charge is only down to
25% but the battery can no longer sustain 50 amps without the terminal
voltage falling below the specified 10.5v?
To state it another way, in terms of practical consequences, after
draining 75 amp-hrs at 50 amps, does the battery still contain another
25 amp-hrs if only a light load is applied?
Frankly, I don't see how higher rates of current would mean that each
amp-hr would consume more reagents inside the cell. Thus a better way
of expressing Peukert's would be an expression that at "x"%
state-of-charge the battery can sustain "y" amps without dropping below
10.5v. However I've never seen it stated that way and I am uncertain as
to what is going on here, logically this more useful form of the
relationship should have been easy to run across if it is representative
of what will happen in reality.
Thanks,
Danny Miller
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Simples inexpensives solutions:
1-Charge at work
2-Buddy pairs with 12Ah batteries, bigger and you will have space problem on
you EVT.
complexe expensive solution:
Put a 48V60Ah lithium polymer pack in your EVT = 100miles range :^)
but price will be about $2000 + shipping from taiwan and you still have to make
a kiss bms + charger (the easier task)
Philippe
Over the pond
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : [email protected]
Cc :
Date : Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:11:43 -0700
Subject : buddy pairs of different Ah ratings
I've finally started commuting in my EVT, and have a great ev grin. The
ride is about 16 miles each way with a few small hills. The last 2
miles of my trip home, there is a 1-2% grade that really sucks down the
juice, however.
While the battery pack is just fine for my current commute, there is
the chance that I will be needing another 8 miles in each direction if
I change jobs - not something that my current batteries could handle.
I have 4 B&B eb50 batteries
(http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/EB/EB50-12.pdf) and room for
some smaller batteries in my saddlebags and topcase. Not enough room
for four more of the EB50s though.
If I were able to find room for four lower Ah batteries, is it alright
or not a good idea to buddy pair them with the 50Ah ones? How about
making a second 48v string and using that in parallel?
-Cristin
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 04:15:22 -0500, Danny Miller wrote:
> To state it another way, in terms of practical consequences, after
> draining 75 amp-hrs at 50 amps, does the battery still contain another
> 25 amp-hrs if only a light load is applied?
Not full 25 Ahs, because of higher resistive loss because of the higher
current.
The reason for Peukert is that the speed of the chemical process is
limited and the fine pores of the active mass are clogged during a fast
discharge and the concentration of the acid drops.
There was a nice paper available for which I posted a reference some
time ago which explained the chemical process as introduction to a new
concept for a energy gauge. But the link is invalid now and I didn't
store the document. May be someone else can provide the PDF to you.
The original link was:
http://www.ee.ncue.edu.tw/note/data/o/21/91.pdf
You can get a html version without images at:
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:Z5sTP1vku78J:www.ee.ncue.edu.tw/note/data/o/21/91.pdf+o/21/91.pdf&hl=de&client=firefox-a
Or if you are an IEEE member you may get access at www.ieee.org .
Emil
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> Disclaimer: I know almost zip about bicycle mechanicals.
Yup, you're right about that.
>
> I do know a good cyclist has a peak of only around 2 hp, and not for very
> long.
And a VERY good cyclist (sprinter) can put out 3 hp:
http://worldofendurance.com/article.asp?a_id=1013851
That's 100 flbs at 90rpm. As RPM drops the torque you can produce goes
up. At low RPMs, they can produce HUNDREDS of ft/lbs.
I can generate over 200 lbs at the crank (at low rpm), and I'm nowhere
close to what a pro can generate.
FWIW I break rear wheel spokes on a regular basis. In fact I bought a new
set of wheels, that retail for over $500 (shimano R-540), because the bike
shop owner assured me that "Nobody breaks spokes on these wheels".
Now when I show up he says, "ok, nobody but YOU breaks spokes on these
wheels". I broke three spokes in the first year.
I've broken pedals and once a crank. I have to replace my chain every year
because it's starting to stretch.
I've NEVER broken a freewheel. In fact I've never heard of anyone
breaking a freewheel.
> An Etek can produce 15 hp peak, 7 hp continuously. But it's torque
> more than hp that limits a bicycle freewheel. Some cyclists can produce a
> staggering amount of force at the pedal, but what can be applied to the
> freewheel is limited by the bike's configuration (it just does a wheelie).
This is true, sort of. In low gear, with my hands on the drops and my
butt on the saddle I can lift the front wheel easily and ride a wheelie.
To prevent this from happening, you just have to stand up (more torque and
moves you center of gravity forward). For even more torque you can lean
over the handle bars and pull UP on them generating even more torque and
still keeping the front wheel down.
What to the Tour and look at the sprint for the finish. All of the riders
are standing up, leaning forward, and yanking up on the bars so they can
push down harder on the pedals.
> Bottom line, a bicycle freewheel won't take much. A bicycle expert would
> be able to give you numbers.
My road bike's freewheel can easily handle the 150+ ft/lbs I can push
through it. A pro cyclist could probably put twice that through theirs.
Mountain bike freewheels see even more torque due to granny gears.
>
> If a bicycle freewheel is a ratchet mechanism, using two in parallel would
> require aligning them properly so they both carry equal load. Do it wrong
> and the second freewheel does nothing but add weight and complexity.
>
Quite right. However just one could easily handle the power from
something like an Etek as long as you used it on the low torque (motor)
side of the power train.
> My gut feeling is that bicycle components have been refined over a very
> long
> history to handle the loads of their target application while minimizing
> weight. It is not likely that they will be a good choice in an
> application where the potential power is increased by a factor of two or
> three.
It's true that weight is a major concern, however strength is also a
predominant factor. It wouldn't due to have someone loose a race because
of equipment failure. The good quality components are designed to handle
the maximum power that ANY human can produce and probably a bit more, just
to be sure.
However, a lot of the really light weight components have weight limits.
They sacrifice strength to save weight. That's one of the reasons I don't
have any titanium components on my bike. This is also one of the reasons
that most cycling competitions have a minimum allowable bicycle weight
(usually 16 lbs).
Cheers, Pete
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