EV Digest 4520
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) San Diego EV mechanic sought
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: San Diego EV mechanic sought
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Only getting 2 messages per day
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Regen with charged batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) PFC 30 CHARGER
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: PFC 30 CHARGER
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Hawkers... dormant or dead
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Regen with charged batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: I'm back
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) A timer on PFC chargers
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: PFC 30 CHARGER
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: CalCars Teach Lead Ron Gremban's battery evaluation and production
cost summ
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Fwd: Alternative fuel vehicle for commercial
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) California needs more nuke plants
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: I'm back
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: I'm back
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: I'm back
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 9Electric Degreasing Advice Sought
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 9Electric Degreasing Advice Sought
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Intro and questions
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: I'm back
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: CalCars Teach Lead
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: Intro and questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Max Motor RPM
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Intro and questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: CalCars Teach Lead Ron Gremban's battery evaluation and production
cost summ
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Intro and questions
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
Someone contacted me looking for a person in the San Diego area who can
do maintenance/upgrade work on EV conversions. I'll try the SD EAA, but
thought I'd also inquire here.
If you are or know of such a person, please contact me off-list.
Dean
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI DEAN: CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME MORE INFO. ON THE PMC 30
CHARGER..............THANKS........BILL
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Grannes, Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 7/22/2005 11:44:18 AM
> Subject: San Diego EV mechanic sought
>
> Folks,
>
> Someone contacted me looking for a person in the San Diego area who can
> do maintenance/upgrade work on EV conversions. I'll try the SD EAA, but
> thought I'd also inquire here.
>
> If you are or know of such a person, please contact me off-list.
> Dean
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have only gotten 1 or 2 messages a day for the last week.Where are they
all? Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Foster wrote:
I want to use regen as a "power brake" on cars without power brakes. But
what if you start out at the top of a hill with fully charged batteries?
You don't. If you live on top of a hill, undercharge your battery
just enough to have a "room" for regen to still work all the way
down next morning.
As you go down with your foot on the brake, the battery voltage rises,
the controller kicks out your power brake effect, and you suddenly feel
you "loose your brakes".
IMHO, it is foolish to rely on regen as your the only braking
source capable of atopping the car. No power brakes is OK,
justy push harder - it will happen one time per day only.
Can I just kick in a huge power resistor across the pack with a
contactor when the pack voltage goes up too much? Anyone done this?
You can, but this resistor should be many kW of power,
perhaps in a water container. And, don't forget to
disconnect it once regen is over! If your contactor
connecting this resistor ever gets stuck, you know...
John Foster
VEVA Tresurer,
Dynasty Electric Car Co Engineer/Assembler
1980 Dodge Omni 128V
"Cars are for Women with Children, real men ride Bromptons"
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
WILL THE PFC 30 CHARGER TURN IT SELF AFTER BATTERYS ARE
FULL???............BILL
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TURN IT SELF "OFF" AFTER BATTIERS ARE FULL???..........BILL
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Sharon Hoopes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 7/22/2005 12:32:36 PM
> Subject: PFC 30 CHARGER
>
>
> WILL THE PFC 30 CHARGER TURN IT SELF AFTER BATTERYS ARE
> FULL???............BILL
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland said. It's easy to get stunning performance from
that tough little pickup...simply drop in a set of 20 either Exide Orbitals,
Optimas, or Hawkers (choosing batteries that weigh between 40 - 45 lbs.
each),
and you've got a 240V pack that weighs 800-900 lbs. and batteries that love
dishing out high currents over and over. This pack teamed up with a Zilla
Z1K
controller and a nine inch DC motor would flatten you back into the seat and
smoke the rear tires at will,
I remember being in your Datsun at 156 volts. Not shabby. What do you
think of the larger Optimas? Using 13 and a Zilla 156v to save money and
still have performance. Is there a problem with the bigger Optimas? Marko
seems to do well with 10. In a pickup you can use larger batteries with
little penalties. The advantage I see using less batteries and a slightly
lower performance controller is cost savings. Less batteries, less
regulators & the ability to use a less expensive controller. I'd say 2k
savings for the less batteries, regs and controller. Yes 767 pounds is a
little less but the truck is going for performance. Please comment on the
setup I proposed and the up and down sides. Thanks. Lawrence Rhodes..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Wilson wrote:
> I have 24 Hawker Genesis batteries...
> One set of 12 has a total series voltage of just over 2 volts...
> sitting in the vehicles for a year without any charge or usage...
> Any ideas if they might be brought back to life?
As Dr. McCoy said in Star Trek, "He's dead, Jim."
>From the above symptoms, there isn't much hope that you'll get anything
more than a "zombie" recovery out of them -- some of them might just
barely work, with a small fraction of their original capacity and very
high internal resistance so you can't draw high currents.
But if you want to play with the dead bodies, here is how I would
proceed:
Connect a small light bulb (like a car tail light) in series with a
battery. Connect this combination to a DC power supply of about 16-20
volts.
- If it's a normal battery: The light bulb will light, and the
battery will measure 12v to 15v (depending on its state of charge).
Just put it on a normal charger and hope for the best. If it
charges normally, connect a known load and see how many amphours
you get. Charge/discharge cycle it several more times. If the
amphours keeps rising, you are breaking it back in and may recover
50% or more of its original capacity.
- If there's no hope: The light bulb will light brightly, and the
battery will measure under 10 volts and not rise. This means it
has one or more shorted or reversed cells. Such a battery won't
recover in any useful way. At best, it may recover as a 10v
battery, or have only 10-20% of its normal amphour capacity.
I wouldn't waste any more time with it. Send it to the recyclers
to be made into a good battery.
- If there's hope: The light bulb will be off (almost no current),
and the battery voltage will be almost the full supply voltage
(16-20 volts).
Leave it this way. Check the battery voltage occasionally; it will
start very high, and should s-l-o-w-l-y fall over many hours or
days. Keep going as long as the voltage keeps falling.
Eventually, the voltage should come down below 12 volts. At this
point it has recovered enough to start acting like a normal battery.
The current will rise as high as the light bulb allows it to, and
the battery voltage rises again as it charges.
At this point, you can transfer it to a normal charger. As above,
it should charge normally. Then run several charge/discharge cycles,
keeping track of the amphours on each cycle. If the capacity keeps
rising, it is worth continuing to re-break in the battery. You may
recover 50% or more of its original capacity.
Here's what was happening: When a battery is very dead, its electrolyte
is almost pure water. All the sulfuric acid is converted to lead
sulfate. So their resistance is very high, and they won't charge with a
normal charger.
By applying a higher-than-normal voltage, you force a small current to
flow despite the high resistance. This small current converts some of
the lead sulfate back into lead and sulfuric acid. The acid improves the
conductivity, lowering the resistance. The lower resistance allows more
charging current, which makes more acid, etc. If all goes well, you
eventually get enough acid back into the electrolyte so the battery has
a low enough resistance to behave normally again.
The light bulb in series with the power supply serves as a current
limiter, and visual indicator of when normal charging begins. Without
the light bulb (or some suitable resistor), when the battery
transitioned back to normal internal resistance, it would be destroyed
by the excessive voltage (you never apply 16-20v to a good battery!)
Have fun!
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> Do they make electric cars with only the motors available for
> braking force, or are they always combined with conventional brakes?
Some electric cars in the early 1900's had only electric braking. I
drove a 1902 Baker that was that way -- only regenerative and dynamic
braking. The only other brake was a parking brake that locked the drive
train.
However, the brakes on early automobiles were often weak, ineffective,
and unreliable. So they passed laws that mandated hydraulic brakes. All
cars since then have had hydraulic brakes, not because it's the only way
to do it, but because it's the law.
Big truck manufacturers lobbied for a change to allow air brakes for
large trucks in the 1940s I think. GM got a special waiver to use
electric brakes on the rear of the EV-1. Other than that, all cars are
hydraulic.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ricky Suiter wrote:
> With the flooded batteries I was thinking I should probably dial
> the controller back to about 500 amps right? Or at least for the
> break in period. How much can I safely pull without killing them?
What kind of floodeds? 6v golf cart batteries can stand 500 amps briefly
(say, for 5 seconds); 12v floodeds should be limited to 250 amps if you
expect them to last.
But there is no steep slope. The higher the current, the shorter their
life, and the more amphours you lose to Peukert.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, what happens if during or after charge the mains power
get interrupted for a few seconds (happens here regularly)?
Will the charger and its timer reset and initiate another full
cycle? I guess it will, just as when you cycle the power switch.
It has no way of knowing if that reset was user's request or the
power failure.
I guess not too good for a topped off batteries...
Victor
Sharon Hoopes wrote:
TURN IT SELF "OFF" AFTER BATTIERS ARE FULL???..........BILL
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sharon Hoopes wrote:
>
> TURN IT SELF "OFF" AFTER BATTERIES ARE FULL???..........BILL
Yes it will.
Read more about it here:
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/chargers3.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had long ago forgotten what a 1965 Datsun pickup looked like and
did an Internet search for some. You can see many pictures of Datsun
pickups of that vintage at: http://www.manxsr.com/other_datsun.htm
They are much more attractive than I remembered
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland"
Hello to All,
Sharon Hoopes wrote:
The next thing I would recommend is a Curtis 120 to 144 volt 500-amp
controller for around $1,000.
Argghhh!! The last controller on earth I'd recommend, is a low performing
Curtis that absolutely ruins the EV experience with that awful squeal
it makes through the drive motor!
The " awful squeal " is the least of the Curtis short comings . That the
Zilla's hair ball has a brain and will turn off the contactor if there's a
problem , it also pre charges the controller. What about RPM limiting , the
zilla's hair ball watches this for you ( keeps your motor from flying apart)
and if you like will tell you the rpm.
I never could get enough fans blowing on my Curtis to keep it cool , but my
Zilla is always cool to the touch .
. Curtis
makes a lot of fine controllers and they're in use in everything from
forklifts to pallet jacks, to on road EVs, and most all deliver silent
reliable operation. The Curtis model 1221C and 1231C controllers don't
come close to matching other more advanced controllers.
John what happens when a Curtis blows in one of these forklifts or jacks ,
do they go full on and take the rider for a ride , funny what we get use to
, haven't had one of those rides for a while :-)
that 65 truck sounds sweet ,
I don't thing Sharon has met a Zilla yet , a little more money , but a lot
more fun.
Steve clunn
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Philip and All,
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >From: jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > One wonders though if Toyota would cut
> it's
> >4cyl engine down to 1 cyl and use that weight, cost
> >savings to double the E motor power and the battery
> >pack size to 40 mile range, just how much more the
> gas
> >mileage on the fewer times gas was actually needed,
> >would be?
>
> Jerry,
>
> The Pruis is a very balanced design - based on what
Not really, way too ICE dominated for good eff.
> the public wants to
Have you asked them? What it is, is what Toyota
was brave enogh to do. Nothing more.
But if you put out an Ev dominated hybrid that
didn't even need gasoline for 90% of it's driving and
costing 1/3 to fuel as most is grid electricity, they
would jump on it if it came with a warranty and has 4
seats.
> drive. It gets great gas mileage, and can be driven
That's a matter of opinion. It's only great mileage
because they don't know just how good mileage could
be.
> and fueled, as needed,
My version can do the same but also can fuel from
the grid if gas prices get out of hand as they will
shortly. Many are reeling from the prices now with
$40-$60 fill-ups 5-10 times/month!!
For many people that could be cut to 1 fillup of
10 gal every 2 or 3 months with my version! No, they
would never want that!!
> like any other ICE car - with no range limitations.
What range limitation? My version can go at
80mph-70mpg forever and faster at less mpg.
> That's why it's been so
> popular - no worries for the driver.
They would worry a lot less not having to buy many
tanks of gas a month.
>
> If the Prius ICE were much smaller, it could not
> sustain continuous highway
Just how much do you think a Pruis needs to do
75mph?
It's about 15hp and I specified 25-30hp, No?
So not only can it do that speed, but charge the
batts at the same time at a 7-10kw rate.
> A hybrid with too small an ICE, to me, is the worst
> of both worlds - it uses
> fossil fuels, and still has limited range. But,
While I agree many may not like that, for many
other people, it would work quite well even without a
generator. Especialy as a second car but my version
isn't like that so that's a red herring.
>
> As far as saving weight by reducing the Prius ICE
> size, think about this:
> the engine in my Echo ( same block, same
> displacement, but set up slighty
> differently than the Prius engine) weighs 146 # - I
> weighed it myself when I
> took it out. Even iff you could cut that weight in
> half, you'd save about
> the equivalent weight of one flooded GC battery.
The weight of 1 flooded battery in Li-ion will
take you 20 miles!!
>
> Lastly , can you give us your thinking behind the
> 1.75X highway efficiency
> improvement that would result from a smaller ICE in
> the Prius ? The
Friction is ralated to the number, speed of the
parts so less, smaller parts, less wasted fuel, a
known fact. Plus the engine would run under 1/2 the
time unless going faster than 80mph.
> existing Prius engine is already more heavily loaded
> than other cars - how
No it's not. The Prius uses much less power,
especially at speed from excellent aero, low
resistance tires, ect.
> could you improve it's efficiency that much?
Yes, by less parts, loading it 100% instead of the
30% it normally runs at and turning it off much of the
time running on EV drive at speed.
HTH,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> > Just about 1.75x mpg on highway and
> about
> >1.5x in city from much lower internal engine
> friction
> >and much less part load eff losses would be about
> >right.
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since my Sparrow isn't working, and I'm not in CA, I figured somebody
here might be interested...
From: Anneliese Gomez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Alternative fuel vehicle for commercial
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mr. Lussmyer,
I am looking for alternative fuel vehicles to use in a
Lexus commercial and was hoping you would be available
to talk with us about the possibility of renting one
from you, or maybe you know of others that might be
interested. This commercial titled
"Alternative" will shoot the second week of August
here in Southern California. The possibility of using
an electric car or ANY form of alternative fuel
vehicle that might be
available to us would be spectacular. You will, of
course would be compensated, and there is full
insurance. For more details, please contact our
production designer Carl at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or on his mobile at 310-990-5288.
Thank you,
Anneliese Gomez
626-437-5906
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That bed looks nice and deep. Might be room for batteries down low and
still allow cargo above them. Sweet.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Shay
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 1:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
I had long ago forgotten what a 1965 Datsun pickup looked like and
did an Internet search for some. You can see many pictures of Datsun
pickups of that vintage at: http://www.manxsr.com/other_datsun.htm
They are much more attractive than I remembered
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got your car all charged up?
Could get exciting in the next couple of hours:
http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Trojan 30XHS's. 130 ah C/20, same batteries used in GEM car's. So in that case
I guess I can set the limit to 500 amps and try my best to keep my foot out of
it. Again, this will all be setup for the full 1000 amps the zilla can put out
when I get some Orbitals in the future, but in the mean time I'd like to get
the cheap pack to last at least a couple years.
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Ricky Suiter wrote:
> With the flooded batteries I was thinking I should probably dial
> the controller back to about 500 amps right? Or at least for the
> break in period. How much can I safely pull without killing them?
What kind of floodeds? 6v golf cart batteries can stand 500 amps briefly
(say, for 5 seconds); 12v floodeds should be limited to 250 amps if you
expect them to last.
But there is no steep slope. The higher the current, the shorter their
life, and the more amphours you lose to Peukert.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ricky Suiter :
> Trojan 30XHS's. Again, this will all be setup for the full 1000 amps the
> zilla can >put out when I get some Orbitals in the future, but in the mean
> time I'd like to get >the cheap pack to last at least a couple years.
How much do those cost?
Have you seen these?
http://www.remybattery.com/350/shopdisplaysubcat.asp?id=342&cat=Deka+INTIMIDATOR
Maybe these can be had for an even better price then that considering
the quantity to be purchased?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Probably about $100 each with a resale number. Last time I bought them was a
few months back when I was fixing a friends GEM for him (why do people drive
them until they die?) and they were about $95 so give or take for lead price
fluctuation. Eventually I'll go to AGM's, but not quite right now. That is a
good price for Deka's though, but the AH capacity is about half of the Trojans
I was planning on using. Plus I already have boxes built for the Trojans. It's
going to be pretty sweet though, I've got the 300 volt Zilla and the PFC30, and
a switching power supply for the DC/DC which should take a pretty wide range of
voltages. So everything should be future compatible with different voltages and
higher amperages. The only thing I'll need is regulators.
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Ricky Suiter :
> Trojan 30XHS's. Again, this will all be setup for the full 1000 amps the
> zilla can >put out when I get some Orbitals in the future, but in the mean
> time I'd like to get >the cheap pack to last at least a couple years.
How much do those cost?
Have you seen these?
http://www.remybattery.com/350/shopdisplaysubcat.asp?id=342&cat=Deka+INTIMIDATOR
Maybe these can be had for an even better price then that considering
the quantity to be purchased?
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took my greasy junkyard tranny to a local (to San Jose, CA) place that
steam cleans cars and trucks. They have a lift and can do the
undercarriage and/or engine bay. The nice (for my environmental
conscience) thing is that they capture and properly dispose of all the
greasy runoff.
For $20 they made the tranny look new. Best $20 I ever spent!
Try the yellow pages for steam cleaning...
good luck,
Andrew
David Dymaxion wrote:
Part of the reason my conversion has been going slowly has been the
tool/workspace end of things. For example, I had to build a workshop
in my garage... Then it needed more lighting and an "arc welder plug"
(guess how that winds up getting used?). "Hmmm, I think it would be
fun to build my own adapter rather than buy one!" I think to myself.
OK, so now I have to get a lathe/mill (which I did), and take the
time to level it, anchor it securely, machine my wife a ring, etc.
Then I decide weld up my adapter, so now I need my own welder (that's
what sparked the recent welding thread on the EVDL). So I got the
welder, so of course I need to build an exhaust fan (using an old air
filter and dryer tubing) and dryer hose and then build a cart for
it...
While this all has been much fun, it's just about time to actually
build that adapter. I'm looking forward to getting it and the engine
mated together. Moving the car on one battery is then not far off! I
can see why folks with well equipped workshops can get things done
much more quickly! My 2nd conversion will go much faster!
But alas, there is another barrier. That transmission is just too
ugly to bolt that beautiful electric motor to it! I tried three cans
of degreaser on it. I tried laundry detergent. I have tried hot water
and soap. I have scraped it with chopsticks. While it is a slightly
lighter shade of black, and has a few tantalizing metal colored
areas, it is still filthy!
Is there a miracle degreaser out there?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrew Letton wrote:
> I took my greasy junkyard tranny to a local (to San Jose, CA) place that
> steam cleans cars and trucks. They have a lift and can do the
> undercarriage and/or engine bay. The nice (for my environmental
> conscience) thing is that they capture and properly dispose of all the
> greasy runoff.
> For $20 they made the tranny look new. Best $20 I ever spent!
> Try the yellow pages for steam cleaning...
I concur, that's the best option if available.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I'm new to the group and wanted to introduce myself and ask a question
or two.
I just finished at PowerLight Commercial Solar Systems after a three
year stint and got very enamored with Solar Power and conservation.
Just before I left to return to college we put in a 10kW Solar system
(www.livesolar.net) on our house and bought a Ford Escape Hybrid.
College is expensive so we sold the Escape but not before I fell in love
with the 0 to 35 mph silent propulsion. I'm sure I drove my wife nuts
with "the Engine just shut off" and "Darn, it just came back on."
Anyway, I just picked up some Ovonic 13.2v 85AH NiMH batteries for use
in a "real" Electric Vehicle project. I also have the capability to
pick up a used Solectria AC55-A and a Solectria UMOC440TF.
Would any of you suggest what sort of vehicle would make a good glider
with these components (sorry, open ended question). Is the AC-55 too
big for a car project (convertible Mustang maybe)? Also what would be a
good charger and BMS that have a NiMH profile. I understand that for
California summers it is important to keep the NiMH's cool with a good
BTMS. Any suggestions there?
Your help is greatly appreciated....
Noel
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Ricky Suiter wrote:
> Trojan 30XHS's. 130 ah C/20, same batteries used in GEM car's. So
> in that case I guess I can set the limit to 500 amps and try my
> best to keep my foot out of it. Again, this will all be setup for
> the full 1000 amps the zilla can put out when I get some Orbitals
> in the future, but in the mean time I'd like to get the cheap pack
> to last at least a couple years.
I doubt you can even draw 1000 amps from a Trojan 30XHS without pulling
it well below 10.5v. If you try, it's like hitting it on the head with a
hammer; it might survive, but every "blow" damages it.
But luckily, the Zilla has a battery current limit. When a controller
steps the voltage down, it steps the current UP. So, you can set the
battery current limit to a reasonable number like 250 amps, and still
have a motor current of 1000 amps. That's what I would do with these
batteries.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
> At least a couple of reasons right off the top of my head. One would
> be NVH (noise, vibration and harshness.) Very difficult to impossible
> to balance a single cylinder engine on all axes, even with a balance
> shaft.
>
> Another would be emissions. It's much more difficult to make a sub 4
> cylinder engine emission compliant. The reason is that below 4
> cylinders, the exhaust flow is in discrete pulses. Neither catalysts
> nor sensors work well with impulse flow. This is the main reason you
> don't see sub-4 cylinder engines in the US very much. I know an
> engineer that worked on the Geo Metro engine. They had a b*tch of a
> time with emissions even though the engine is tiny.
>
> Yet another reason is customer acceptance. Very few people will
> accept the typically rather sluggish performance of an EV. People
> want performance AND economy. The parallel hybrid provides just that.
>
> Yet another reason is that Toyota, responding to their customer base
> that they probably understand better than any car company, doesn't
> want to sell an EV. A PEV is perceived by most non-zealots as a
> complicated hassle. Extension cords, limited range and so on. Again,
> as above, people want economy in a familiar environment. Sticking a
> gas nozzle in a tank opening is familiar. Arranging to plug in isn't.
>
I agree, John, you don't want a dinky engine in a car the size of Prius, since
it seats 5. If you plan on having the capacity to haul 3 or 4 people, you need
enough power to do it, so a hybrid that size should be parallel, not series. Up
to 45mph, pure electric works well, especially if the energy comes from a
mains-recharged pack, but at freeway speeds, rather than:
ICE->Generator->Controller->Motor->Wheels,
it's more efficient to go:
ICE->Transmission->Wheels.
Of course, for a hybrid to run pure EV at 65mph, it would need a much bigger
pack or only do this for a short distance - I'd rather have the engine do *no*
pack charging and stick to "filling from the plug", and that's not likely if
you're EV-ing much on the freeway!
My part of California has plenty of grades (up to 6%), so getting past the
foothills in pure electric mode would be nearly impossible with a
reasonably-sized pack. I think a 40 mile pack and a plug-in charger is entirely
feasible.
One Question about that Priusplus group post: it keeps mentioning "a 5.3 kWh
PRIUS+ battery pack capable of a 40 mile EV-assist range" - so, is the
7.7mi/kWh range calculated at 45mph (pure EV top speed)?
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So where did a poor college student find presumably affordable NiMH?
Are there more, and can you disclose your source?
A web search shows the UMOC440TF and AC55 to be 78 kW -- that is not
too much power for a Mustang. Indeed, if you want high performance,
many would say that is not enough!
If long range and/or maximum battery weight is a goal, a convertible
has some disadvantages. A convertible will have terrible aero drag at
highway speeds with the top down. A convertible also weighs more, and
is structually less strong than a hard top.
Another mustang kudo is you can lighten one alot with aftermarket
parts. The V8 is alot of weight to remove, too.
--- "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Just before I left to return to college we put in a 10kW Solar
> system
> (www.livesolar.net) on our house and bought a Ford Escape Hybrid.
> College is expensive so we sold the Escape but not before I fell in
> love
> ...
> Anyway, I just picked up some Ovonic 13.2v 85AH NiMH batteries for
> use
> in a "real" Electric Vehicle project. I also have the capability
> to
> pick up a used Solectria AC55-A and a Solectria UMOC440TF.
>
> Would any of you suggest what sort of vehicle would make a good
> glider
> with these components (sorry, open ended question). Is the AC-55
> too
> big for a car project (convertible Mustang maybe)? Also what would
> be a
> good charger and BMS that have a NiMH profile. I understand that
> for
> California summers it is important to keep the NiMH's cool with a
> good
> BTMS. Any suggestions there?
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--- Begin Message ---
Jack Knopf wrote:
> How could one determine the maximum RPM's of a large motor?
Well, you could rev it up until it flies apart. That tells you what the
limit *was*! :-(
> What happens when maximum rpm is reached?
Depends on the type of motor. Something will rip loose from the rotor
and fly off, probably doing considerable damage in the process.
The iron in a rotor is pretty strong; it doesn't usually fail. Motors
with nothing *but* iron in their rotors (hysteresis, switched
reluctance) can stand astounding speeds; 20,000 to 50,000 rpm are
possible for EV-sized motors.
But most rotors also have copper or aluminum windings. These metals are
far weaker. They are usually stuck into slots in the iron to try to hold
them, but this still gives way over 10,000-20,000 rpm. An induction
motor is a common example.
Motors with brushes are weaker still. The exposed copper bars of the
commutator are weak and hard to restrain. Such motors are limited to
5000-10,000 rpm maximum.
Besides these basic limitations, there can be other weak points in a
design. The bearings might fail, or the fan could fly apart. The rotor
might not be balanced well enough, so vibration tears it apart. Heat can
weaken the materials so they fail at a much lower speed that you'd
expect (this is often a problem with commutators).
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome to the group Noel,
BRUSA NLG5 will handle any profile you like. Info:
http://www.metricmind.com/charger.htm
One downloadable NiMH profile to get you started is on
the library page: http://www.metricmind.com/library.htm
I can get you set up with this if you end up choosing NLG5.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
Hi all,
I'm new to the group and wanted to introduce myself and ask a question
or two.
I just finished at PowerLight Commercial Solar Systems after a three
year stint and got very enamored with Solar Power and conservation.
Just before I left to return to college we put in a 10kW Solar system
(www.livesolar.net) on our house and bought a Ford Escape Hybrid.
College is expensive so we sold the Escape but not before I fell in love
with the 0 to 35 mph silent propulsion. I'm sure I drove my wife nuts
with "the Engine just shut off" and "Darn, it just came back on."
Anyway, I just picked up some Ovonic 13.2v 85AH NiMH batteries for use
in a "real" Electric Vehicle project. I also have the capability to
pick up a used Solectria AC55-A and a Solectria UMOC440TF.
Would any of you suggest what sort of vehicle would make a good glider
with these components (sorry, open ended question). Is the AC-55 too
big for a car project (convertible Mustang maybe)? Also what would be a
good charger and BMS that have a NiMH profile. I understand that for
California summers it is important to keep the NiMH's cool with a good
BTMS. Any suggestions there?
Your help is greatly appreciated....
Noel
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
distribution or use of this information by a person other than the intended
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A car's gas mileage is determined far more by its weight and aero
than motor size. If you look at the same car with different engine
sizes there is surprisingly little difference in gas mileage. It is
primarily governed by Carnot cycle efficiency -- if you could triple
the operating temperature then you'd see significant gains. I would
not be surprised if you cut the Prius displacement in half and gas
mileage improved less than 10%. Where I do agree is if you beefed up
the electric side the gas mileage would improve more.
The Prius' basic trick is the gas motor runs heavily loaded, only 1/2
the time, plus regen.
--- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<major snippage>
> > >From: jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > One wonders though if Toyota would cut
> > it's
> > >4cyl engine down to 1 cyl and use that weight, cost
> > >savings to double the E motor power and the battery
> > >pack size to 40 mile range, just how much more the
> > gas
> > >mileage on the fewer times gas was actually needed,
> > >would be?
> > If the Prius ICE were much smaller, it could not
> > sustain continuous highway
> ...
> > Lastly , can you give us your thinking behind the
> > 1.75X highway efficiency
> > improvement that would result from a smaller ICE in
> > the Prius ? The
>
> Friction is ralated to the number, speed of the
> parts so less, smaller parts, less wasted fuel, a
> known fact. Plus the engine would run under 1/2 the
> time unless going faster than 80mph.
> ...
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Hi Noel and All,
> Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm new to the group and wanted to introduce
> myself and ask a question
> > or two.
> >
> > Anyway, I just picked up some Ovonic 13.2v 85AH
> NiMH batteries for use
> > in a "real" Electric Vehicle project. I also have
> the capability to
> > pick up a used Solectria AC55-A and a Solectria
> UMOC440TF.
> >
> > Would any of you suggest what sort of vehicle
> would make a good glider
> > with these components (sorry, open ended
> question). Is the AC-55 too
> > big for a car project (convertible Mustang maybe)?
As the power is about 78hp which in AC is only ok,
I'd pick something really light like a Karman Ghia or
a Kitcar like a 64 Ferrari Daytona Coupe knockoff
that could be light and aero.
Another good one could be a GT40 type like the
Fiberfab Valkrie which is especially easy to do in EV.
All these give you good aero at well under 1,000lb
glider which should be fairly fast with that power
with an all up weight of 1500-1600lbs.
Both the kitcars done well would be fairly
valuable after finishing with their high speeds, long
range depending on the number of batteries you have.
If done correctly you could have 100wt-hrs/mile
power use so get 7-9 miles/batt you use in these style
car gliders!
> Also what would be a
> > good charger and BMS that have a NiMH profile. I
> understand that for
> > California summers it is important to keep the
> NiMH's cool with a good
> > BTMS. Any suggestions there?
If you got those from a car, did it have an AC in
it? Or you could run a window AC guts repackaged and
do an inverter of the pack or DC/DC or several batts
on 12vdc to an normal inverter.
Or use an aftermarket AC and run it with a high
voltage motor off the pack. Run all these thru the car
and have the air exit thru the batt box.
Another is a fan and a water mist for a swamp
cooler for the batts or the car itself.
But just painting the car a light color and a fan
with cooling spaces between batts should work well.
though care not to charge in the heat of the day but
with it's range, that shouldn't be a problem.
I just wish I had those to put in my 600lb
glider!!! With 24 of those batts it's range would be
about 240 miles and really fast with that power!!!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> >
> > Your help is greatly appreciated....
> >
> > Noel
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