EV Digest 4524
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Electric Vehicle Help
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Hawkers... dormant or dead
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Hawkers... dormant or dead
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Truncated EVDL in digest mode
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: GE motor on eBay
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motor cooling
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electric Vehicle Help
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Hawkers... dormant or dead
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: GE motor on eBay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: A timer on PFC chargers
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Aerodynamic drag causes, Re: Dymaxion for hybrid RV , Aero, ground
effect and Van conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Buresh)
12) RE: Electric Vehicle Help
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: A timer on PFC chargers
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric Vehicle Help
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Curtis Controllers in Pallet Jacks - EV controls
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Plug in Hybrids on Foreign Exchange by Fareed Zakaria on PBS Alert
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: PFC 30 CHARGER
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Conversion Van
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Sepex Motor controller
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) 3 hp dc motor on ebay
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motor cooling
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: PFC 30 CHARGER
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Electric Vehicle Help
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) UQM Motors (Unique Mobility)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Electric Vehicle Help
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Conversion Van
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Electric Vehicle Help
by David Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Hybrid possibility idea
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Sepex Motor controller
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly. Or charge up the batteries, jack up the front wheels and let
'er fly. And then let us know how many miles per charge you get at
60 mph with the wheels off the ground. :-)
I would think that you could get the vehicle certified at a smog
referee.
Tim
On Jul 23, 2005, at 7:06 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: July 23, 2005 6:01:38 PM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicle Help
Get on the phone to Sacramento and get if clarified.
If that doesn't work hook a drill to the odometer.....
Did I say that?
Gadget
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rick and others...
I went to Harbor Freight and got the 500amp load tester. It was on sale so
I splurged. I charged up one of the Hawkers and put a 120 amp load on it.
Of course, the tester said to replace the battery but that was just the
first charge. I didn't realize how hot a 120 amp load would get in 15
seconds. The tester has a 15 second timer in it to test the loads.
It is going to take a while to charge them all individually but if a good
slow charge will help, that's what I'll do. Once I get them all up I'll
hook them back to the truck and take a few short runs and see what happens.
The one I tested was at 12.5 volts no load and sagged to about 9 volts under
the 120 amp load. I hope the load was correct. These are 42 AH Hawkers and
the instructions on the tester said to put 3X the AH rating as a load for 15
seconds. Is that right our wrong?
Jeff Wilson
2 Solectria E-10s
-----Original Message-----
From: Ricky Suiter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 12:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hawkers... dormant or dead
Like you said, charge them up and see. I'd remove them all and charge them
up individually with a good automatic battery charger. Hawkers are pretty
rugged. You'll probably need to cycle them a few times to wake them back up,
but at the least you should be able to get them charged up enough to at
least confirm that everything on the truck's works and drive a few miles,
then from there you can look in to new batteries. Also, I'm not sure about
the solectria charger, but try jumping the 12 volt battery, you might be
able to get the vehicles charger to turn on.
As far as other testing instruments, if you have a harbor freight near you
they have a 100 amp carbon pile load tester they put on sale for ~$14 once
in a while that will tell you a lot more than open circuit voltage.
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
Jeff Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is for all the battery pros.
I have 24 Hawker Genesis batteries that came in two Solectria E-10s that I
just purchased. One set of 12 has a total series voltage of just over 2
volts. I haven't checked the other yet but imagine it is about the same.
The batteries have been sitting in the vehicles for about a year without any
charge or usage (probably why the dead condition). Any ideas if they might
be brought back to life? The vehicles have very low mileage and the
batteries were dated in late 1999 and last used in 2004. I know the simple
answer is "charge them up and see" but I wondered if it would even be worth
the effort. Even if I did, what can I do to test them other than checking
the voltage?
Jeff Wilson
2 Solectria E-10s
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion Est.
2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Lee.
I'll give this a try. Since these were a "find", I'll play with them a
little and see what I can learn.
Jeff
Lee Hart wrote:
Jeff Wilson wrote:
> I have 24 Hawker Genesis batteries...
> One set of 12 has a total series voltage of just over 2 volts...
> sitting in the vehicles for a year without any charge or usage...
> Any ideas if they might be brought back to life?
As Dr. McCoy said in Star Trek, "He's dead, Jim."
>From the above symptoms, there isn't much hope that you'll get anything
more than a "zombie" recovery out of them -- some of them might just
barely work, with a small fraction of their original capacity and very
high internal resistance so you can't draw high currents.
But if you want to play with the dead bodies, here is how I would
proceed:
Connect a small light bulb (like a car tail light) in series with a
battery. Connect this combination to a DC power supply of about 16-20
volts.
- If it's a normal battery: The light bulb will light, and the
battery will measure 12v to 15v (depending on its state of charge).
Just put it on a normal charger and hope for the best. If it
charges normally, connect a known load and see how many amphours
you get. Charge/discharge cycle it several more times. If the
amphours keeps rising, you are breaking it back in and may recover
50% or more of its original capacity.
- If there's no hope: The light bulb will light brightly, and the
battery will measure under 10 volts and not rise. This means it
has one or more shorted or reversed cells. Such a battery won't
recover in any useful way. At best, it may recover as a 10v
battery, or have only 10-20% of its normal amphour capacity.
I wouldn't waste any more time with it. Send it to the recyclers
to be made into a good battery.
- If there's hope: The light bulb will be off (almost no current),
and the battery voltage will be almost the full supply voltage
(16-20 volts).
Leave it this way. Check the battery voltage occasionally; it will
start very high, and should s-l-o-w-l-y fall over many hours or
days. Keep going as long as the voltage keeps falling.
Eventually, the voltage should come down below 12 volts. At this
point it has recovered enough to start acting like a normal battery.
The current will rise as high as the light bulb allows it to, and
the battery voltage rises again as it charges.
At this point, you can transfer it to a normal charger. As above,
it should charge normally. Then run several charge/discharge cycles,
keeping track of the amphours on each cycle. If the capacity keeps
rising, it is worth continuing to re-break in the battery. You may
recover 50% or more of its original capacity.
Here's what was happening: When a battery is very dead, its electrolyte
is almost pure water. All the sulfuric acid is converted to lead
sulfate. So their resistance is very high, and they won't charge with a
normal charger.
By applying a higher-than-normal voltage, you force a small current to
flow despite the high resistance. This small current converts some of
the lead sulfate back into lead and sulfuric acid. The acid improves the
conductivity, lowering the resistance. The lower resistance allows more
charging current, which makes more acid, etc. If all goes well, you
eventually get enough acid back into the electrolyte so the battery has
a low enough resistance to behave normally again.
The light bulb in series with the power supply serves as a current
limiter, and visual indicator of when normal charging begins. Without
the light bulb (or some suitable resistor), when the battery
transitioned back to normal internal resistance, it would be destroyed
by the excessive voltage (you never apply 16-20v to a good battery!)
Have fun!
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there any way to stop the truncating of digest mode messages? Digest4522
came through with only 14 of the 26 messages and the 14th one had a list of
the remaining truncated text files and no messages.
Jeff Wilson
2 Solectria E-10s
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion Est.
2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Hoopes wrote:
> 4hp! This will not work in a ev, you need 20hp or more.
It's small for a full-sized car, but plenty big enough for an NEV,
(Citicar, GEM etc.). Note that it's 4 HP continuous at 48 volts; that's
more like 6 HP for 1 hour, or 12 HP at 96v for 1 hour.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The "electric superchargers" are in fact nothing more than the bilge
blowers. As in literally, they are usually the ones straight out of
Academy and sold as a magic bolt-on upgrade. They can't compress more
than a small fraction of a psi, nor could any small motor like that
since such compressing takes quite a few hp.
The blowers do develop high speed quite effectively through a very
useful duct connection and should be able to improve cooling substantially.
Danny
Landon Bills wrote:
I do not know how noisy they are but on ebay some people sell those electric
"super chargers" for gas motors. They might be the way to go for cooling.
Landon <--- New to EV's =)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I'll probably be using bilge blowers (as
other EVDL members recommended) and see how they work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bet they're not accustomed to people running UP their odometer. Sneaky.
You could talk to the news media. Seriously, it's funny enough to
garner attention and would only serve to draw publicity to the idea of
homebuilt electric vehicles to hundreds/thousands who have never heard
of it. Most people think the electric vehicle has been dead since the
EV1 flopped. That's more of a service than that single vehicle itself
will ever be on its own.
In fact, I can guarantee that if the media puts the story on their site
(many stories do), you will get mention on the blog site Fark.com and
probably several others at least. National coverage.
Danny
Rush wrote:
How many miles under 7500?
Unscrew the speedometer link to the transmission and then put it on a drill and
run it up to 7500 +.
Or tell the inspector that you talked with the owner in NJ and he told you the
orig speedo was broken and they replaced it with an OEM speedometer unit and
that is why it only has xxxx miles on it.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Wilson wrote:
> I went to Harbor Freight and got the 500amp load tester...
> I charged up one of the Hawkers and put a 120 amp load on it.
> was at 12.5 volts no load and sagged to about 9 volts under
> the 120 amp load.
That is too heavy a load for the battery in its present condition. Do
not connect a load that pulls the battery below 10.5v or you risk
permanently damaging it.
The batteries are almost certain to test "bad" as-is. The test results
will only be meaningful after you have properly charged them, and done a
few charge/discharge cycles to break them in again.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:09 PM 23/07/05 -0700, Gadget wrote:
This is almost the same size motor I have on my EM and
it is very capable. It's rated at 4.15 hp.<snip>
> ><snip>
> > >4hp!!! This Will not work in a ev, you need 20hp
> or more..........Bill
> > ><snip>
> >
> > No, but it would certainly work well for a riding
> lawn mower which is also an EV
Hi All
This motor may be good enough for a shorter range/ smaller commuter, older
civic/etc. Don't forget that the rating is only one datapoint on the
capability of the motor. At 96V. extrapolating the 36V/2000RPM/3hp,
48V/2650RPM/4hp it would be reasonable to look for 96V/5300RPM/8hp
continuous (and 120V/6625RPM/10hp). A conversion that is one step above a
NEV could be done with such a motor, if you have the use for such a
vehicle. Or, as Gadget suggests, an electric motorbike.
Its' shortcomings would be to do with how many amps you could peak it at.
75A continuous - notice that that is quoted the same for the two different
voltages on the plate?. Jim Hustead may have a better idea of what this
motor could take.
A 450A controller would probably team up OK to it. Just don't expect the
performance to be a race car. It could be a starting point for a low-cost
short-range first conversion for someone. I have a similar motor put aside,
with thoughts of the GE-EV1 72V controller I have and a Daihatsu Mira or
other micro car.
Just my $0.02
James
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--- Begin Message ---
All our equipment at work is required to not restart after a power
interruption. It is handled by a simple relay setup and could be used in
this instance
N.O. start N.C. stop relay coil
___|___
B+ -------------- ---------__|__------()()()()()--------gnd
| ____________---__
B+ -----------------------------------------------| N.O. relay
contact , once energiesed it keeps the relay pulled in
________
B+ =========================== ======[charger]===gnd heavy
NO contact on relay.(or second relay)
operation
press start and relay pulls in and latches.
If press off or if power fails for longer than relay holds then
someone has to walk over and press the start button again.
we could combine this with a timer to make it active in the equalize
stage only.
And add a RC circuit to help keep the relay from dropping out on brown outs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd love to say that I have one, but it is just a dream at this point. I'm
still watching and learning from all the expertise on this list. I'll be using
a 74 through 77 for the base.
--
Chris Buresh
St. Paul, MN
> > But the Corvette is a Corvette!
>
> Amen brother! With a name like Evette, it sounds like you might have a
> finished conversion. Care to share details?
>
> I'm in process on converting a 79 Stingray myself and would love to hear
> what you've accomplished. I know of one electric C4 conversion that was
> done by a university, but I've never seen a C3, hence my own project.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To all...
I recently had the same kind of experience with an old bitty from the
registrars office in the Nashville area. I was trying to register my E-10
and get title. They didn't have a problem with title, but they wanted my
emissions test results. I tried to explain that it has no engine so it has
no emissions. The old bat pulled out a policy letter from the state that
said that Hybrid vehicles like the Toyota Prius and Honda Civic with a gas
engine and electric motor must have an emissions test in order to be
licensed. I tried to explain that the letter said engine AND motor. She
was not only old but deaf, too. She just could not get it through her pea
brain that mine only had an electric motor. She refused to allow me to
register and license the vehicle. I had to leave at that point before they
took me away by police. I have a very long temper point but this lady was
so dense that she quickly burned through the last thread of patience I had.
I finally had to tell her to go away so I could finish my re-registration
for my Dodge Ram. I left there and got a letter from the emissions place
stating that all-electric vehicles are not hybrid by definition and do not
require emissions testing. I haven't had the time to go back yet to rub the
old bitty's nose in the letter but relish the opportunity to do so very
soon.
It's going to be an uphill battle here in NASCAR land. Talking EV to most
people around here results in a deer-in-the-headlights gaze.
Jeff Wilson
2 Solectria E-10s
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 8:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicle Help
Rex Allison wrote:
>Hi,
>I recently purchased a 1996 Solectria Force that was
>used at a NJ utility then refurbished by Solectria and
>sold to a Californian then to me. Well it hadn't been
>registered in California yet so I went to the DMV and
>this is where the drama began.
>I had the vehicle inspected and the inspector agreed
>that it was an Electric Vehicle so he marked "E" on
>the form and wrote a note that the vehicle was zero
>emissions. No problem.
>Well at the Santa Clara DMV counter they refused to
>submit the paperwork because the odometer was under
>7500 miles. There is a law in California to prevent
>New Out Of State Cars that don't meet California
>Emission to come into the state. I all but pleaded
>with the DMV manager that an EV by common sense should
>exceed California Emission Standards. So they refused
>to submit my paper work.
>
>
>
>
I'm curious to know what their reason is for stating that it does not
meet emissions requirements?
This reminds me of when my dad got his truck re-registered in PA. They
made him get his S10 weighed because the lady refused to use the GVWR
value from the sticker on the inside of the door.
Sounds like more people who need to get a clue IMHO.
--
Martin Klingensmith
http://wwia.org/
http://nnytech.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use my PFC-20 charger two different ways. The
preferred method is at a public charging station with
an Avcon adapter. You need to plug in and hit the
start button to charge this way. In case of a power
failure and recovery you need to hit the start button
again to get the juice flowing. The other method is to
plug it into a 110V outlet using an in-line GFCI. The
GFCI I use requires you to hit the reset button after
plugging it in to get the juice to flow. If the power
fails, the GFCI will open, when the power comes back
on you need to hit the rest button to turn it on
again. This is fine unless your depending on that
charge to get you where you're going :-(
It would be fairly simple to put a couple of 110V
relays in a small box with 110 and 220V inlet/outlet
receptacles and wire them up to latch when you push
the button. Add a couple indicator lights and you can
tell at a glance if the power is flowing to your
charger or anything else you might not want to come
back on after a power failure. I could draw up a
schematic if anybody needs one.
TiM
PS I love my PFC-20 charger, it replaced the 80 pound
boat anchor of a Lester my EV came with. Anybody out
here interested in a 80 pound Lester 96V/12V charger?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Get a copy of the law and read it carefully. There may be some little
phrase that limits it to vehicles with emissions equipment, or
something like that. If you can find that, bring a xerox copy,
highlight the phrase, and that'll give the bureaucracy an out.
You might also contract solectria, if they sold cars in CA they must
have something that says it was legal for them to do so,
pollution-wise.
--- Rex Allison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I recently purchased a 1996 Solectria Force that was
> used at a NJ utility then refurbished by Solectria and
> sold to a Californian then to me. Well it hadn't been
> registered in California yet so I went to the DMV and
> this is where the drama began.
> I had the vehicle inspected and the inspector agreed
> that it was an Electric Vehicle so he marked "E" on
> the form and wrote a note that the vehicle was zero
> emissions. No problem.
> Well at the Santa Clara DMV counter they refused to
> submit the paperwork because the odometer was under
> 7500 miles. There is a law in California to prevent
> New Out Of State Cars that don't meet California
> Emission to come into the state. I all but pleaded
> with the DMV manager that an EV by common sense should
> exceed California Emission Standards. So they refused
> to submit my paper work.
> Now I have a letter from the State DMV stating the
> following:
> The vehicle does not meet the California Health &
> Safety code 43150 through 43156. So according to
> California Vehicle Code 4750 they are refusing to
> register or title the vehicle and I have to remove it
> from the State.
> I have 30 days to respond. Does anyone know how I
> should approach this?
> Thank you,
> Rex Allison
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <
Steve Post at Curtis designed many of their controls
during the 1221 and 1231 time frame.
This is true , my first one didn't make the high pich squeal , and later
when they came out with the improved model that did the squealling , this
model lasted much longer for me. I started using my EV for my lawn businesss
as soon as I found out it could do the job and giving them a good work out
towing a trailer/lawn mower. I didn't push it hard with the speed as 20 golf
cart batteries had to get my through the day , no neck snapping take offs, I
got the first zapi when they came out ( the one before the h2) and that
worked for years and the curtis went into my 2nd ev , a car . I was thinking
, as I backed my truck and trailer out of the drive way , with a cup of
coffee on the dash ( try that with a curtis) about how far things have come
in such a short time . What ever the short comming the curtis had , at least
it was there , . As for all the engineers out there that are making this
stuff, without you we would have nothing , so please excuse our spuealling ,
and if we blow up its just our old design.
Steve had an EV volkswagon bug.
My bet is they weren't given much time to design the
EV controls and much of the work was done on the side.
Demanding golf cart, forklift and industrial vehicle
customers that pay the bills probably took precedance
over the on road EV work. At least that's how it was
when I worked at GE-EVS.
Rod
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Fareed Zarkaria on his program, Foreign
Exchange, at the end plugged plug-in Hybrids saying
they get much higher mileage and we should back them.
He said it would take only $12 billion,
about what we spend in Iraq in 3 months, to do this to
make ourselves mostly independent of oil.
I really like him as he is a reasoned
commentator that looks deeply into subjects and tries
to find fair, just and realistic solutions to our
problems.
As such he has become very well respected
in all political circles, right, left and center, so
having him as an independent is great.
And many other thinking conseratives also
have come to believe our future economic, national
security is dependent on lowering our use of oil
making plug in hybrids and EV's prime tech to achieve
this helps us greatly.
Needless to say this is very good for our
cause.
Again these comments were the closing ones
at the end of the program.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill, to be really accurate, the PFC30 charger turns itself off when a timer
expires. The timer can bet set to start under different conditions,
including reaching a set acceptance voltage. See the section on "Charger
Time Out" in the PFC install document at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/installpfc20.doc
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sharon Hoopes
Sent: July 22, 2005 12:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: PFC 30 CHARGER
WILL THE PFC 30 CHARGER TURN IT SELF AFTER BATTERYS ARE
FULL???............BILL
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I've thought of doing something like this with my VW Eurovan. VW has a
wide range of engines for it, from tiny diesels to the huge V6. (The US
gets only the big V6, of course). There is an all-wheel drive version
(again, not imported to the US). Possibly I could add the rear wheel
drive components from Canada or Europe, and drive them with an electric
motor. With a small battery pack and regen controller, I'd have a hybrid
that could be driven short distances at low speeds on pure electric, and
still cruise long distances at highway speeds on gasoline.
I was thinking of this also until I checked on the weight of those vans ,
over 4000 lbs.
Mike G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 22, 2005, at 7:41 PM, M.G. wrote:
The problem is I need a controller, the motor is a separately excited
motor or sometimes called a shunt motor. I would like to use this
motor with my nicads ( Thanks Hump ).
Could any body point me in the right direction to a zilla like
performance controller.
You could just control the field with a small controller. With the
field on switch power the armature with a contactor. This will produce
an electric vehicle with an "idle" (will need a clutch or automatic.)
Current is limited by your right foot, regen happens when you release
the throttle. It would take a little learning because really sudden
releases of the throttle at high speeds without pushing the clutch in
could produce dramatic regen.
Points to consider include the motor idle speed with max field (lowest
rpm), a system to NEVER allow the armature to be powered when the field
is off, and a system to light the brake lights when regen exceeds the
equivalent of mild engine braking. Oh, and keeping your right foot
under control :-)
Paul "neon" G.
I didn't want to use a system like this. The original setup is so sweet with auto regen and other adjustable features.
Not to mention there is less heavy gauge wires as the fields only use approxamatly 20 amps.
Mike G.
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--- Begin Message ---
3 hsp 36 vdc 2500 rpm 82 amp continuous duty open frame permanent magnet motor.
7-3/8" diameter, 6-3/4" tall, 3/4" shaft, 27lbs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7533390128
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Used a Dayton 6 inch 12 VDC @ 4 amp blower fan that is design for motor
cooling. It has a curved outlet that mounts directly to the brush cover. The
inlet has a mount for a standard 6 inch carburetor filter or install a mounting
bar across the inlet for the threaded bolt for the chrome filter cover. These
fans are from Granger which was Dayton at one time.
Used a solid state 12 VDC relay rated at 10 to 25 amps that is fuse with a
Bussman fustron or limitron fuse at 1.25 times the amp rating on the fan lable.
These are design for the interrupting starting of a motor. You can get these
relays from All Electronics or from NTE.
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Miller<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Motor cooling
The "electric superchargers" are in fact nothing more than the bilge
blowers. As in literally, they are usually the ones straight out of
Academy and sold as a magic bolt-on upgrade. They can't compress more
than a small fraction of a psi, nor could any small motor like that
since such compressing takes quite a few hp.
The blowers do develop high speed quite effectively through a very
useful duct connection and should be able to improve cooling substantially.
Danny
Landon Bills wrote:
>I do not know how noisy they are but on ebay some people sell those electric
>"super chargers" for gas motors. They might be the way to go for cooling.
>
>Landon <--- New to EV's =)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>
>
>
>> I'll probably be using bilge blowers (as
>>other EVDL members recommended) and see how they work.
>>
>>
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--- Begin Message ---
A big THANK YOU..............Bill
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 7/24/2005 6:59:36 AM
> Subject: RE: PFC 30 CHARGER
>
> Bill, to be really accurate, the PFC30 charger turns itself off when a
timer
> expires. The timer can bet set to start under different conditions,
> including reaching a set acceptance voltage. See the section on "Charger
> Time Out" in the PFC install document at
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/installpfc20.doc
>
> Don
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Sharon Hoopes
> Sent: July 22, 2005 12:32 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: PFC 30 CHARGER
>
>
> WILL THE PFC 30 CHARGER TURN IT SELF AFTER BATTERYS ARE
> FULL???............BILL
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somewhat unexpected that a 1996 car is seen as new.
But - it's the law.
Even more disturbing to find that an Electric Vehicle is not
automatically treated as (true) zero-emissions vehicle.
This is clearly one of the examples of an unwanted
side-effect of the law that was written in a too generic way.
How can a vehicle of almost 10 years old still be viewed as
a new vehicle, not yet sold to the ultimate purchaser, only
because it did not make its 7500 miles yet?
BTW: did Solectria not certify this type of vehicle?
If there is a type-approval of this vehicle (there must be
other Solectria Force in California!) then you may call that
into action to defeat the Health and Safety code 43150.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 731 2746 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rex Allison
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Electric Vehicle Help
Hi,
I recently purchased a 1996 Solectria Force that was
used at a NJ utility then refurbished by Solectria and
sold to a Californian then to me. Well it hadn't been
registered in California yet so I went to the DMV and
this is where the drama began.
I had the vehicle inspected and the inspector agreed
that it was an Electric Vehicle so he marked "E" on
the form and wrote a note that the vehicle was zero
emissions. No problem.
Well at the Santa Clara DMV counter they refused to
submit the paperwork because the odometer was under
7500 miles. There is a law in California to prevent
New Out Of State Cars that don't meet California
Emission to come into the state. I all but pleaded
with the DMV manager that an EV by common sense should
exceed California Emission Standards. So they refused
to submit my paper work.
Now I have a letter from the State DMV stating the
following:
The vehicle does not meet the California Health &
Safety code 43150 through 43156. So according to
California Vehicle Code 4750 they are refusing to
register or title the vehicle and I have to remove it
from the State.
I have 30 days to respond. Does anyone know how I
should approach this?
Thank you,
Rex Allison
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have any direct experience with UQM motors used for EVs (
www.uqm.com ) ? I am curious to hear any feedback.
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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Rex, perhaps get a certificate of conformity, and take it to a different
DMV. Phone around to some emission testing places, try to find one who has
dealt with electrics and the dogmatic nature of the govt, pay your bucks and
get a certificate.
Don
P.S. Do as Canadians do: be subservient, apologise a lot, make them feel
superior, then when you leave, ignore their suggestions and piss on the
guy's tires.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rex Allison
Sent: July 23, 2005 5:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Electric Vehicle Help
Hi,
I recently purchased a 1996 Solectria Force that was used at a NJ utility
then refurbished by Solectria and sold to a Californian then to me. Well it
hadn't been registered in California yet so I went to the DMV and this is
where the drama began.
I had the vehicle inspected and the inspector agreed that it was an Electric
Vehicle so he marked "E" on the form and wrote a note that the vehicle was
zero emissions. No problem.
Well at the Santa Clara DMV counter they refused to submit the paperwork
because the odometer was under 7500 miles. There is a law in California to
prevent New Out Of State Cars that don't meet California Emission to come
into the state. I all but pleaded with the DMV manager that an EV by common
sense should exceed California Emission Standards. So they refused to submit
my paper work.
Now I have a letter from the State DMV stating the
following:
The vehicle does not meet the California Health & Safety code 43150 through
43156. So according to California Vehicle Code 4750 they are refusing to
register or title the vehicle and I have to remove it from the State.
I have 30 days to respond. Does anyone know how I
should approach this?
Thank you,
Rex Allison
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> I've thought of doing [a hybrid conversion] with my VW Eurovan.
M.G. wrote:
> I was thinking of this also until I checked on the weight of those
> vans, over 4000 lbs.
*All* modern vans and trucks are grossly heavy. That's part of the
reason hybridizing them looks attractive. Because of their poor gas
mileage, even a modest improvement saves a lot of fuel.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe you can contact your local TV consumer reporter. I've heard of
one person who got past the smog requirement after the reporter
showed up with owner at the DMV (with cameras rolling, I think).
David Murphy
On Jul 23, 2005, at 8:40 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
I bet they're not accustomed to people running UP their odometer.
Sneaky.
You could talk to the news media. Seriously, it's funny enough to
garner attention and would only serve to draw publicity to the idea
of homebuilt electric vehicles to hundreds/thousands who have never
heard of it. Most people think the electric vehicle has been dead
since the EV1 flopped. That's more of a service than that single
vehicle itself will ever be on its own.
In fact, I can guarantee that if the media puts the story on their
site (many stories do), you will get mention on the blog site
Fark.com and probably several others at least. National coverage.
Danny
Rush wrote:
How many miles under 7500?
Unscrew the speedometer link to the transmission and then put it
on a drill and run it up to 7500 +.
Or tell the inspector that you talked with the owner in NJ and he
told you the orig speedo was broken and they replaced it with an
OEM speedometer unit and that is why it only has xxxx miles on it.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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--- Begin Message ---
A friend came by today and offered me a 1982 Kawasaki GPX 550 that runs OK
but has front end damage. About60 Hp?
My interest is in building a hybrid 2F1R with a 60/40 weight distribution.
Could a Vortex3wheeler like vehicle be built using the front end of a fwd
car and with 500 lb of lead acid mounted forward of the front axle?
I would use the motor and transmission from the FWD.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 24, 2005, at 7:17 AM, M.G. wrote:
On Jul 22, 2005, at 7:41 PM, M.G. wrote:
The problem is I need a controller, the motor is a separately
excited motor or sometimes called a shunt motor. I would like to use
this motor with my nicads ( Thanks Hump ).
Could any body point me in the right direction to a zilla like
performance controller.
You could just control the field with a small controller. With the
field on switch power the armature with a contactor. This will
produce an electric vehicle with an "idle" (will need a clutch or
automatic.) Current is limited by your right foot, regen happens when
you release the throttle. It would take a little learning because
really sudden releases of the throttle at high speeds without pushing
the clutch in could produce dramatic regen.
Points to consider include the motor idle speed with max field
(lowest rpm), a system to NEVER allow the armature to be powered when
the field is off, and a system to light the brake lights when regen
exceeds the equivalent of mild engine braking. Oh, and keeping your
right foot under control :-)
Paul "neon" G.
I didn't want to use a system like this. The original setup is so
sweet with auto regen and other adjustable features. Not to mention
there is less heavy gauge wires as the fields only use approxamatly 20
amps.
Mike G.
If you want to full featured controller for a sepex and zilla like
performance you may have a hard time. I'm not aware of such a beast.
What I had in mind would not use any extra heavy gauge wire (the
armature will still need heavy wiring but the field will only need
light wiring.) You would need about a 20 amp controller for the field,
set the pot box up so that minimum throttle is maximum controller
output and pressing the throttle reduces the controller output (reduces
field strength.) The armature could easily exceed 1000 amps if your
right foot gets heavy (provided the motor and batteries could take it.)
This simple system lacks the full feature set and the price tag, but
you will have lots of power and regen. There is an example of this type
of EV drive system in the EV album at
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/091.html> The owner has a page on the
vehicle at
<http://www.mrsharkey.com/rabbit.htm>
Paul "neon" G.
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