EV Digest 4549
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Newbie: Bikes and Like That (a tad long)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Best use of 500 pounds of battery budget?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: blowing fuses: HV lines next to LV
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: blowing fuses: LV lines next to controller case and PCB
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Deka dominato. Now: Are they as good as Optima or Exide? What would
the racers use?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 4 wheel tilting (Re: tilting, Re: Racing 3wheels,)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: E-Meter Questions
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: blowing fuses: HV lines next to LV
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery de-sulfation
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Racing 3wheels,Comments ideas
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Best use of 500 pounds of battery budget?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Thoughts on Range
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Conversions with MagnaCharge ports?
by "Ralph Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Racing 3wheels,Comments ideas
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: E-Meter Questions
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Solectria S-10 conversion on ebay
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) solectria AC-55
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Solectria S-10 conversion on ebay
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Solectria S-10 conversion on ebay
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: E-Meter Questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: [sparrow_ev] Thoughts on Range
by "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Thoughts on Range
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Solectria S-10 conversion on ebay
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Thoughts on Range
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Solar charging project
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Solar charging project
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Freedom EV by Jerry Dycus
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) continuing troubles/help
by "john" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Breaking in batteries
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: continuing troubles/help
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: continuing troubles/help
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: E-Meter Questions
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Solectria S-10, differential?
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You might be a candidate for one of Mikes Better Bikes.
http://www.electric-bikes.com/skeeter.htm You can buy the components to
convert or buy one from Mike. He claims up to 200 miles riding per day.
Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:12 AM
Subject: Newbie: Bikes and Like That (a tad long)
Hello...
New to the list, and it seems like the time when all
the bikers are checkin' in. So count me in the mix,
too. This morning, as I was out in the shop putting
a new back-half wiring harness on the old Harley
bobber, I was turning over the EV motorcycle idea
in my head.
Two things (except for the money thing, and that's
chronic) are holding me up right now. One is that I'm
not finding too little information, I'm finding too much.
An embarrassment of riches. So I'll be continuing to
read the archives and asking for pointers. The other
thing is that my present living situation seems to
limit the possibilities.
That second one seems like it's more important, so
as a brief overview:
We're located in the Southern Interior of BC, 40 km
from the core of Kamloops and work. This is not a flat
40 km, but contains hills. Fairly big ones, if you know
this area.
We also own a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid -- my wife's
car -- which we've put a lotta kms on in the last two
years. This may be the best solution for us, though I
really would rather be on two wheels than four. The
other four-wheeler is my truck, which we fondly refer
to as the Exxon Valdez because it's hit a few rocks
and it also leaks oil. Since many of the best lakes around
here are at the end of some pretty rough alleged
"roads" we use it for camping and hauling the canoe.
And running into town for things bigger than we can
put in the car or strap to the back of one of the
motorcycles.
Our road is winding and narrow, infested with log trucks
and deer -- so whatever I have has to go fast enough
to avoid being run over and slow enough to stop for
Bambi. My thinking about EVs has covered the following
cases:
1. A motorcycle that can go into town and back home
on one charge. Tall order. 70 km/h, for at least 100 km.
2. A motorcycle that can go into town and recharge for
the homeward leg within six hours. 70 km/h for 50 km.
3. A motorcycle that stays pretty close to home. Our
nearest store is 25 km away, so unless it's the same as
#2 above it's just a fun toy that doesn't really "do
anything." Still, a tire-burning bobber like "Amp Hog"
would be cool and could be trailered (get thee behind
me...) to places to ride.
4. Let's get off the pavement. I have hundreds of
kilometres of logging roads right behind the house.
Something that has the power and traction to get
up there, say up to 30 km round trip, would be at
least marginally useful. Regenerative braking would
be useful -- it's as far down as it is up. If yer gonna
trailer it, might as well ride somewhere with scenery.
5. An EV truck -- it's bigger, it's harder to keep out
of the way of the other vehicles in the stable. It
requires more storage room. It would need to at
least match #2 above and haul a load besides. Too
much like work -- I'd rather have a motorcycle.
6. All else failing, if my life just wouldn't be complete
without an EV of some kind, I'd convert a small
tractor to electric and use it to plow snow. I have
100 m of driveway to keep clear, and an old flathead
powered tractor that does fine as long as it's above
-40C.
Electric-assist bicycles are only barely on this list. I
*could* see myself riding an assisted mountain bike
up a logging road. I can also see myself coming down
that same road, stuck to the grill of a Kenworth.
Certainly not devoting the hour and a half each way
it would take to ride to work, even with the assist
blasting at full-throttle the whole way, which I
know would take more battery than most assisted
bicycles can carry.
What about my wife, you ask? She likes her Honda.
She also likes her Suzuki 650. If I want to play with
electrics, that's cool, she may ride hers or pack on
mine if she wants, but she's got her own bike. She'd
ride in an electric car/truck if I had one, so long as
she didn't end up pushing it up the last hill.
So -- I can build a motorcycle. Outside of thinking
that an Etek would be a good motor for it, I really
don't have a clue as to controllers, batteries, and
an onboard charger. I also don't have a feeling for
whether Thompson Rivers University can be talked
into providing a charging opportunity, but that seems
like a socially responsible thing to do.
I do know that it'll need a DC-DC converter to run
lights, siren, and beer fridge :) -- and I'd like to put a
charger onboard so I can just run an extension cord
to the sled and plug it in to BC Hydro.
Did I say the money thing was chronic? Batteries
made with costalotium are out. Is there a large
disconnect between vision and reality here? Left
unanswered at this point is whether it can be
insured -- ICBC only seems to recognise NEVs and
assist bikes or scooters limited to 30 km/h. Not fast
enough. Still I hear one of the VEVA guys just got
an electric motorcycle past ICBC, so maybe there's
hope.
That's about enough for now -- I'd welcome any
input and ideas!
Chuck Hays
PNWBS/SENS/DoD/IBA
Deadline Riders MC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Quality AGMs will make the most of it
> because they have more of their capacity available at the 1 hour rate.
Is there a list of batteries with the 1 hour rate somewhere? I'd like
to see that.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
Does the fuse blow immediately, or does everything work OK for
a while before it blows? Did you check for a pinched wire, and
that the wires are installed correctly?
Ralph
Bob Bath writes:
>
> Guys, I've got an issue. 2000 incident-free miles,
> now this:
>
> Since the tranny swap, I've been blowing the same
> fuse, every time.
> It's a 12V split; one goes to pin 5 of the controller,
> the other to the main contactor. If the voltages
> aren't comparable, the controller won't go on. It's a
> 5A fuse.
>
> All I can figure is that I pulled the controller
> mounting plate off to access the tranny. When I put
> the controller back, it is possible that I re-routed
> the lines to the controller & main contactor. Sooo,
>
> Is it possible that in running the 12V lines closer to
> the HV line that I'm inducing some sort of EM pulse
> which blows the fuse?
>
> It's a basic fix each time; just stick in a new fuse.
> But it's not getting to the root cause.
>
> Most appreciatively,
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
> What if it was that the LV lines were routed too close
> to the fan's permanent magnet, or the PCB of the
> controller case? Something just isn't making sense
> here...
Draw a wiring diagram that is based off of how it is wired up right
now and post it online. Also take detailed pics of the entire wiring
layout and all connections and post them online. It's hard to
diagnose something like this without being able to see it or knowing
what we are dealing with.
http://www.imageshack.us/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> If you're locked into 156 volts, how about Optima G31s at 72 lb each? That
> would give you about 940 lb of lead.
>
> I would have thought they would be ideal but I have been warned that these
> batteries do not perform as well as their smaller counterparts. If that
> isn't true what can I expect from those batteries? Lawrence Rhodes......
If I was in your situation, I would call Optima and get some solid
info on these specific batteries(and then share it with the list! ;)
)
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/contact_us.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ProEV wrote:
> <Scroll down to multimedia (right bottom) Tokyo Motor Show
> and watch the movie in action how this is being done.>
>
> Opps, they only offer Real Player and I do not want another player on this
> computer.
I know you said you don't want another player installed, but that
might be based off previous experience with the Real player?
Might try this just to see the movie in question:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternative.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How many amps does the E-Meter pull? Would it work to hook a second, small
battery to the traction pack's negative side and hook its positive to the
E-Meter's positive?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Viera
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 6:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: E-Meter Questions
Hi Don,
Don Cameron wrote:
> 2. tapping into the pack at 24V has also caused at least two EMeters to
blow
> up. Even though the manual says it will work, it is a real pain to have to
> ship the EMeter off for repair. EMeters are **not** user repairable.
Thanks for the info... I guess I won't be attempting this then.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I get about 40-50 miles before it goes.
I get continuity, but that's not to say a pinched wire
isn't the cause...
--- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Does the fuse blow immediately, or does everything
> work OK for
> a while before it blows? Did you check for a
> pinched wire, and
> that the wires are installed correctly?
>
> Ralph
>
>
> Bob Bath writes:
> >
> > Guys, I've got an issue. 2000 incident-free
> miles,
> > now this:
> >
> > Since the tranny swap, I've been blowing the same
> > fuse, every time.
> > It's a 12V split; one goes to pin 5 of the
> controller,
> > the other to the main contactor. If the voltages
> > aren't comparable, the controller won't go on.
> It's a
> > 5A fuse.
> >
> > All I can figure is that I pulled the controller
> > mounting plate off to access the tranny. When I
> put
> > the controller back, it is possible that I
> re-routed
> > the lines to the controller & main contactor.
> Sooo,
> >
> > Is it possible that in running the 12V lines
> closer to
> > the HV line that I'm inducing some sort of EM
> pulse
> > which blows the fuse?
> >
> > It's a basic fix each time; just stick in a new
> fuse.
> > But it's not getting to the root cause.
> >
> > Most appreciatively,
> >
> > '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe
> came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any
> gas for your kids?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What are you thinking of as "recharging alone"? The battery does not
accept a charge well. If you have a recovery (as opposed to a
recharging) procedure in mind, why don't we try that first on the
battery and see if it has a result? If it has no effect but
desulfating does then we do have a significant result.
What is your special recharging procedure that you have in mind? I know
of no accepted procedure that would help an SLA.
Don't get me wrong, I share your suspicion that this is snake oil. And
snake oil products annoy me enormously. Well, not total snake oil.
Some people have shown waveforms showing it's definitely breaking down
the high internal impedance of sulfation. But its usefulness is
definitely exaggerated because some are promising complete miracles.
Dunno, just gotta see. Checking battery performance isn't black magic.
Danny
Philip Marino wrote:
If the battery gets " better", it won't prove a thing, since
recharging alone might have had the same results. That's why Lee
recommended using several batteries, so you could have a control group
- that's the only way it would be a valid test.
Phil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob Rice wrote:
>
> > I can see, EVentually a 13k or so Freedom EV in
> alotta guyz driveways, in
> > a few years. EVers first, Joe Sixpack, down the
> road when he sees the EVer
> > driving it every day, and fed up with gas prices.
>
> If I buy a Freedom EV in the future, I want AGM's, a
> 2K Zilla, PFC
> charger, and a 13" motor in it. How many AGM's can
> you fit in it?
More than you care to pay for ;-))
But it is very light, aero and low drag so you
don't really need that much power for hot performance.
Nor do you need a 13" motor. A 9' will give you
all you need.
To make it really interestingly fast, I'd go with
a race prepped high rpm 9", a 1k Zilla high voltage
with 20 Orbitals for well over 100mph and get there
quick.
About 250hp?, 200kw, for 1400 lbs it should be
real quick with about 5.6lbs/hp. Top speed
acceleration with it's low aero drag, lightweight and
the controller staying in current limit all the way
would be hot.
Madman's PFC would be a great charger with regs on
the batts.
Using the variable ride height to lower the front
will decrease drag and increase high speed stability,
downforce for over 100mph.
> How wide and tall of a back tire can it take, and
> what method are you
> using to drive that back wheel? Is it direct drive,
Any size, width, tire you want under 26" dia. You
would need a different, larger belt, sprockets to
handle that power.
It's direct drive kinda like the Sparrow though
much more flexible on what kind of power you can put
in.
It can be had as a glider and you can put in
whatever you want.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> or will it have a
> transmission? How much power can the drive transfer
> handle?
>
>
> Pic of the Sparrow setup:
>
>
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3531/2001corbinsparrow032kn.jpg
>
>
> Tango setup:
>
>
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3502/tangomotors4mf.jpg
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why 500-600 pounds?
This is for a lightweight hybrid. Range beyond routine 30 mile round trips
for errands is not the issue. If the curb weight is 1,800 pounds, 600 would
be 33% and IMHO not too shabby.
The question is whether a 600 pound golf cart 60 volt system is better than
a 600 pound 144 Volt system?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul G.
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 6:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Best use of 500 pounds of battery budget?
On Aug 2, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Stu or Jan wrote:
> 500-600 pounds is your limit.
>
> Which Lead/acid batteries would you choose to give you the most bang
> for
> the buck?
Optimas or Exide Orbitals, 12 to 15 of them in a series string. The
range with so little battery weight isn't going to be great (unless you
can afford Lithium batteries.) Quality AGMs will make the most of it
because they have more of their capacity available at the 1 hour rate.
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm going to try running my Sparrow on BB600 NiCd cells. 137 of them
to be exact.
So the pack will be:
NiCd Optima YT
164V 156V (nominal)
452 lbs 558 lbs
~40AH ~45AH (? at 65A)
The NiCd's are a lot stiffer than the YT's. Their voltage stays up
pretty well until the very end. They also don't suffer from Cold
weather nearly as much.
I think I'll get more useable range, since you REALLY don't want to
take the YT's down to 80 or 90% DOD, and the NiCd's don't really
care. (Just don't reverse them.)
(Note that this is a non-trivial conversion, as I'll have to modify
the under-seat battery box.)
Any comments or ideas?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Solectria did not normally install the Hughes MagnaCharge ports on the S-10.
I worked for the electric utility that originally bought the truck you are
referring to on ebay. We special ordered four trucks with the MagnaCharge
port. Hughes and Solectria worked together to incorporate the port into the
design of the truck. At that time I understood them to be the first built
with that option and I'm not aware of any others built after that.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Austin
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 2:31 PM
To: EVList
Subject: Conversions with MagnaCharge ports?
I just noticed that the Solectria S-10 on ebay has the following text in its
description:
This truck also has a Hughes MagnaCharge inductive charger port located
behind
the front license plate mount.
How did Solectria get one of these? Do all Solectria conversions have one of
these (even most)? Is there anyway for me to get one?
Thanks!
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry Dycus wrote:
> Nor do you need a 13" motor.
I don't "need" it, but I still "want" it. :)
> A 9' will give you all you need.
It won't give me all *I* need. I always want more and nothing is ever
enough. There are no limits.
> To make it really interestingly fast, I'd go with
> a race prepped high rpm 9", a 1k Zilla high voltage
> with 20 Orbitals for well over 100mph and get there
> quick.
> About 250hp?, 200kw, for 1400 lbs it should be
> real quick with about 5.6lbs/hp.
I want to run 9 seconds in the 1/4 mile and also have a lot of street
range. How about 28 or 29 AGM's?
> Any size, width, tire you want under 26" dia.
Excellent!
> It can be had as a glider and you can put in
> whatever you want.
About how much for a glider and when will it be available? Got any
recent pics of the progress?
You should contact the Discovery channel and see if they want to
document this cars development. I think someone on this list has
contacts with them...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a guy who designed an accurate, high current amp hr meter before I
even heard of the e-meter, I think they blew it by not isolating the adc
stage from the controller. Powering the device from a dedicated power
supply is quite a bad idea because it means the device has a ground
potential. i.e. if you put this on a 100v battery and power it with a
secondary source, the ground of the device is still at 100v versus
battery ground. This will affect the case ground (if metal), the serial
port ground, and potentially even metal switch housings.
Basically the design should have a reg, voltage reference, and adc in a
separate stage and just talk to the controller through an optoisolator.
The opto is just an LED and a light detector combined in a package so
there is no electrical connection between the two sides, only an optical
one. Works great, the shunt can be at any potential that doesn't exceed
that stage's reg's voltage input. There's no way to retrofit this into
a meter not designed for it though.
Danny
Bob Bath wrote:
Hi Nick,
There are all sorts of cautions against wiring the
E-meter shunt sense to anything other than the neg.
side; as in, you'll destroy the meter and void the
warranty.
A dedicated power supply, both + and - 12V, is the
best option. As you pointed out, your solution will
cause imbalances, but it can be done. Even given a
sag under HV load, your meter will work.
Anyone else want to weigh in?
peace,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting, these are _copies of my truck photos_ at www.buckshot.com/ev
The ebay truck has something weird on top of the under hood battery box,
and still has 3 strings of batteries. I thought all of the trucks were
converted to 2 strings by Solectria as my was. But new batteries are a plus.
My E10 came from Ohio Power and although it has 40k+ miles on it, it is
like new inside and out. I was very lucky to find it. Actually sorry I
had to sell it to get into my next EV.
Don
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Nick Austin wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4566310584
I'd like to see a pic of the bed tilted up. Or does that bed not tilt up?
Heres some pics from some other truck to see what I'm talking about...
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1531/608e3jk.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2555/608f6em.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1203/608d1gw.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are AC55 motor showing up on eBay, probably from an AVS bus
auction. Minimum bid was $299. But the last one didn't sell, I don't
think, so minimum next time might be less? You would need a controller,
or if someone wanted on for a project...
There are old (DEAD, probably) battery boxes full of Sonnenscheins, too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SOLECTRIA-HIGH-EFFICIENCY-MOTOR-AC55-A-BUS-CAR-
TRUC_W0QQitemZ7535400973QQcategoryZ42922QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie
wItem
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The bed does tilt up on an E10.
For lots of photos of the E10 go to www.buckshot.com/ev
I have since sold this E10 to Jeff Simpson in Kansas City, MO
He now has three, will probably sell one, maybe even this one. It is in
Excellent condition.
Don Buckshot
913-789-0889
Roeland Park, KS
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Nick Austin wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4566310584
I'd like to see a pic of the bed tilted up. Or does that bed not tilt up?
Heres some pics from some other truck to see what I'm talking about...
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1531/608e3jk.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2555/608f6em.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1203/608d1gw.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Buckshot wrote:
> The bed does tilt up on an E10.
What type of method did they use to latch the bed down and also how
was it released? Was it easy to tilt up?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> As a guy who designed an accurate, high current amp hr meter before
> I even heard of the e-meter, I think they blew it by not isolating
> the adc stage from the controller.
You have to understand that the E-meter wasn't designed for EVs. It was
designed only for conventional 12v systems which always ground the
negative side of the battery. It was a successful product, so they then
marketed it to marine and alternative energy markets.
They were also successful, so they added the external prescaler and
DC/DC so they could sell it to EVers. However, EVs typically do *not*
ground their batteries. But the EV market has always represented a
trivial percentage of their sales, so there was no point redesigning it
just for EVs. The prescaler and DC/DC both stayed an external extra-cost
option.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Mostly I'm curious how you intend to charge them. All the discussion on
the EV List makes me think you must have a complex BMS in the works.
Will you need to monitor every cell? Will you charge based on total
pack voltage?
By the way, Yahoo won't let me see those pictures. It says something
about "group error."
- Jake Oshins
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:35 PM
To: EV Discussion List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [sparrow_ev] Thoughts on Range
I'm going to try running my Sparrow on BB600 NiCd cells. 137 of them
to be exact.
So the pack will be:
NiCd Optima YT
164V 156V (nominal)
452 lbs 558 lbs
~40AH ~45AH (? at 65A)
The NiCd's are a lot stiffer than the YT's. Their voltage stays up
pretty well until the very end. They also don't suffer from Cold
weather nearly as much.
I think I'll get more useable range, since you REALLY don't want to
take the YT's down to 80 or 90% DOD, and the NiCd's don't really
care. (Just don't reverse them.)
(Note that this is a non-trivial conversion, as I'll have to modify
the under-seat battery box.)
Any comments or ideas?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer writes:
>
> The NiCd's are a lot stiffer than the YT's. Their voltage stays up
> pretty well until the very end. They also don't suffer from Cold
> weather nearly as much.
NiCads do get upset by heat though. You'll need to add fans to your
battery boxes, especially the box under the seat.
Ralph
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Heavy to lift alone by hand. I usually had help, it makes it easy. Has a
simple prop rod.
Hold down is Bolts from under bed. Not designed or needed to be lifted
often.
Don
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Don Buckshot wrote:
The bed does tilt up on an E10.
What type of method did they use to latch the bed down and also how
was it released? Was it easy to tilt up?
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At 09:24 PM 8/2/2005, Ralph Merwin wrote:
NiCads do get upset by heat though. You'll need to add fans to your
battery boxes, especially the box under the seat.
Already added.
Also, I'm in the Seattle area, so it doesn't get that hot.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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James,
Here is a great place to start learning about solar and wind energy
http://windsun.com/Library_Index.htm
I would suggest just spending a day cliking on the links and getting as much as
you can from each page. It is a great site to learn about PV and wind system
installations, wiring, chargers, inverters, batteries etc.
This is a page for wind maps http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/.
This is the specific page for NC
http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps/chap3/3-30m.html if you look at
Charlotte you will see that it is a class 1 wind area and for a wind
application you want at least a class 3 area. You would be better off putting
the $$ into PV panels. If you are thinking that the AIR X is a good low wind
generator, it only starts to turn at 7 mph, and for it to produce elec the wind
has to be constant, not just gusts. And in the wind world there is a big
controversy about the specs of the AIR X output.
Your solar panels need to have a PV charge controller that will charge a
battery bank. Then you can use the stored energy to charge the golf carts as
per your drawing. But you have to decide whether you want to use DC or AC. To
efficiently use PV panels to directly charge EV batteries, you need a PV system
on the order of 2kw or 2000 watts. And your drawing only shows 3 panels at 90
watts or 270 watts total.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 2:01 PM
Subject: Solar charging project
> It's me again.
>
> Several months ago I mentioned that I wanted to build an off grid
> charging station for my elec-trak. Well my fleet of electrics has
> seriously grown (don't they just) and now this is more of a necessity
> than a "would be nice".
>
> The early version will be grid powered as I'm not ready for off grid,
> but in the interim, take a look at:
>
> http://time.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/Plan/
>
> Any input would be appreciated as to wiring, design, safety componets,
> you name it.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> James
>
>
>
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I know! I am a genius! We put a wind generator on TOP of the vehicle!
Look at how much power it can generate at 40 mph! Then it can power the
motor.
Just kidding. But somebody was going to say it... or at least think it...
Danny
Rush wrote:
James,
Here is a great place to start learning about solar and wind energy
http://windsun.com/Library_Index.htm
I would suggest just spending a day cliking on the links and getting as much as
you can from each page. It is a great site to learn about PV and wind system
installations, wiring, chargers, inverters, batteries etc.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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The Freedom EV has be mentioned a number of times on this
discussion list, but is there somewhere on the Internet to get details
about the car including pictures and information about building
progress?
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Well I'm still having troubles with my 85 dodge ram. The accllerator will not
always catch when I press down on it. I have to press it down 2 to 4 times
before it ingages.
We have:
checked the potbox +OK
had the controller checked out+ works great
motor cleaned and bench checked+Great motor
checked all connections+ all tight and going to the right places.
The only other thing I think I could do is re wire the set up and bypass
anything that doesn't really need to be there and see if the problem still
happens.
Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated.
John in Tucson
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I have my new pack installed and the new controller is
almost ready to start the wheels turning. I was
wondering what the best way to break in a new pack of
flooded batteries? I know I should drive easy, then
charge and drive a little more and repeat. What is
easy? Low current draw and distance? I've got a 144V
pack, how for for the beginning cycles, and how many
are needed before all is good to go?
Thanks,
TiM
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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Do you have a potbox microswitch?
Did you check it too?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:31 PM
Subject: continuing troubles/help
> Well I'm still having troubles with my 85 dodge ram. The accllerator will
not always catch when I press down on it. I have to press it down 2 to 4
times before it ingages.
> We have:
> checked the potbox +OK
> had the controller checked out+ works great
> motor cleaned and bench checked+Great motor
> checked all connections+ all tight and going to the right places.
> The only other thing I think I could do is re wire the set up and bypass
anything that doesn't really need to be there and see if the problem still
happens.
> Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated.
> John in Tucson
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Aug 2005 at 21:31, john wrote:
> Well I'm still having troubles with my 85 dodge ram. The accllerator will not
> always catch when I press down on it.
Disconnect the output of the controller from the motor, and connect it to a
100 watt or greater incandescent light bulb. Work the accelerator. If the
bulb brightens when you push pedal, dims when release, works every time, you
probably have a problem with the motor. Could be worn brushes, other
possibilities.
If the bulb duplicates the intermittent action of the motor, the problem is
most likely in the controller or ahead of it. Some controllers have a
microswitch on the potbox to enable controller start and/or operate a
contactor. This switch sometimes goes out of adjustment. But I don't know
whether your controller is one of these since you haven't told us anything
about it (at least not in this post).
It could also be a flaky battery interconnect, contactor that doesn't always
close. Lots of possibilities. What kind of basic electrical
troubleshooting have you done so far? That is very difficult for us to do
for you (sorry).
Please provide more information about EV components in your vehicle -
brands, model #s, ages of motor, controller, potbox; what type of batteries,
how many; where are contactors located and how are they controlled. That
may help with the diagnosis. Maybe you posted these before and I missed
them. If so, I apologise.
Sorry this isn't of much help, but long distance troubleshooting is already
a challenge - impossible without any detailed information about the setup.
(Knowing that it's an '85 Dodge Ram doesn't really help much, sorry.)
More info, and maybe we can help better.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Aug 2005 at 22:56, Lee Hart wrote:
> You have to understand that the E-meter wasn't designed for EVs.
The Brusa amp hour meters ^are^ designed for EVs, with at least three
different mounting configurations. They also have some pretty cool options,
such as linear outputs for driving the original instrument panel gauges.
(You can have what used to be the gas gauge reading watt-hours used, for
example.)
And last time I checked, they were still built in Europe with high quality
components. I think I've read that the E-Meter is now made in China, FWIW.
But the Brusa meters are not as cheap as the E-meter, so ...
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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I am intrigued by the differential shown in these photos. It looks like it
doesn't use a hypoid gear design, as the pinion appears to enter at the
same level as the axle. For those who have driven a Solectria S-10, is
this differential noisy? Kind of a long shot, but has anyone opened one to
see what the gears look like inside?
I wonder who made that part for them... I know that differentials looked
like this back in the day (Ford Model T and such), but is this design more
ordinary on modern cars than I'm aware?
--chris
Ryan Stotts said:
> Nick Austin wrote:
>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4566310584
>
> I'd like to see a pic of the bed tilted up. Or does that bed not tilt up?
>
> Heres some pics from some other truck to see what I'm talking about...
>
> http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1531/608e3jk.jpg
> http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2555/608f6em.jpg
> http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1203/608d1gw.jpg
>
>
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