EV Digest 4555
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Somebody likes us.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery de-sulfation
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: FS: 9 Evercel M100s, plus spare cells
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: FS: 9 Evercel M100s, plus spare cells
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Citi-Car on Ebay
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fuel cell bike
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Jump start for solar? Car race shows potential
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Myers Motors news
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ev mower
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Solectria Force cars available to good homes ...
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: FS: 9 Evercel M100s, plus spare cells
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Woodburn Event
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) King Electric car brochure.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) NEDRA Featured on Washington DC Radio Station
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) NEDRA featured on the BBC
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: FS: 9 Evercel M100s, plus spare cells
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: NEDRA featured on the BBC
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: ev mower
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) RE: 96v Voltsrabbit vs 26 Exides or Optimas for a Wayout Rabbit.
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) was: blowing fuses, now: technique for newbies
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: FS: 9 Evercel M100s, plus spare cells
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: NEDRA featured on the BBC
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) EV fuse on ebay
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 96v Voltsrabbit vs 26 Exides or Optimas for a Wayout
Rabbit.
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: was: blowing fuses, now: technique for newbies
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: 96v Voltsrabbit vs 26 Exides or Optimas for a Wayout Rabbit.
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: 96v Voltsrabbit vs 26 Exides or Optimas for a Wayout Rabbit.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
35) Re: 96v Voltsrabbit vs 26 Exides or Optimas for a Wayout Rabbit.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Indeed you have corrected me. Apparently it is the MOSFET which
switches faster.
The second thing you mention is incorrect- the IGBT handles more
voltage. The app note says >300V is where IGBTs become useful. Both
IGBT and MOSFET have large current versions. The MOSFET can be scaled
by putting multiple devices in parallel too, whereas the IGBT does not
work well like this.
Danny
Christopher Robison wrote:
I don't have enough knowledge to comment on much else in this thread, but
my understanding has been that it's the opposite -- MOSFETs switch much
faster, and IGBTs tend to handle more current. I dug up this article
which seems to present that view, unless I've misunderstood it:
http://www.irf.com/technical-info/whitepaper/choosewisely.pdf
--chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 10:33:02 -0400
From: RemyC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Open letter from Hugh E Webber
From:
hewman1@ netzero.net
Tuesday, July 19, 2005
Electric Future
EVangels:
I wish to congratulate all EV advocates on the salvation of two models of
battery electric vehicles. While these victories were defensive, events
are
increasingly EV-positive. I believe that Mitsubishi's plan to mass-produce
full-sized EVs is just the first; the smashing success of hybrid
propulsion
cannot be ignored. In a few years American consumers will be thinking, "If
electric propulsion works on the highway, why burn petroleum?"
I'm in central Florida, far from the EV vigils and pickets; I've done some
organizing and put in an occasional public word for electric automobiles.
Having followed the development of battery electric vehicles for over 20
years, I once had the privilege of touring Los Angeles at the wheel of a
GM
EV1. I've always disliked gas-guzzlers; I bicycle-commuted for over 25
years. I now own and operate a zero-emission pedalcab (bicycle-drawn
passenger cab) in Orlando.
[snip]
I am inspired by the energy and commitment shown by so many people in the
EV
movement.
I am proud to associate myself with a leading part of an historic cultural
change coming in America. Energy decentralization, efficiency and
low-impact
living will be the watchwords of civilization in the future. I look
forward
to creating a future in which we can breathe free.
[snip]
Hugh E Webber
Secretary, Florida chapter, Electric Auto Association
1912 Azalea Av
Winter Park, FL 32792-1008
407 673-4077
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Aug 2005 at 11:19, Neon John wrote:
> BTW, you ought not to toss out technical terms you don't really
> understand. A "double blind placebo controlled trial" refers to tests
> involving human subjects. The first "blind" is the investigator. The
> second "blind" is the patient. This is to attempt to control the
> placebo effect in test subjects. Since neither a battery nor a pulser
> can "see", the second "blind" is meaningless. Nor is there a need for
> a placebo, since the battery isn't a sentiment being and can't heal
> itself just by thinking about it - the placebo effect. ...
> What you propose isn't even a control referenced experiment, as you
> propose two actions and no control.
You must be confusing me with someone else. I didn't use the terms "double
blind," "placebo," or "trial" anywhere in my post. I also suggested that
the research be conducted with three groups of batteries, one of which was
to be a control.
> You don't really think that someone else is going to do your research
> for you, do you?
Sure, why not? <g>
I have an academic interest in this subject, but I doubt that I'd buy or
build a desulfator even if I were sure it would work. So I have lots of
things I'd rather do with my spare time than this research project. But,
hey, talk is cheap. <g>
(Or as a friend of mine used to say, "I care. Just not that much.")
BTW, I sometimes express sentiMENT, but I'm ^always^ a sentiENT being.
(Sorry, I couldn't resist. <g>)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 3 Aug 2005 at 10:22, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
> also have 5 spare cells in the
> event you develop a bad cell.
Derrick,
Interesting! I didn't know you could change individual cells in the
Evercell batteries. I thought each battery was housed in a single molded
case, as most lead batteries are, with the cells all molded into that case.
How do you go about dismantling a battery so you can replace a single cell?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, David Roden wrote:
On 3 Aug 2005 at 10:22, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
also have 5 spare cells in the
event you develop a bad cell.
Derrick,
Interesting! I didn't know you could change individual cells in the
Evercell batteries. I thought each battery was housed in a single molded
case, as most lead batteries are, with the cells all molded into that case.
How do you go about dismantling a battery so you can replace a single cell?
These are a simple metal case with 7 individual plastic-housed cells, with
Evercel-provided interconnects.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI, Mark
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Shortcut to:
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If I could afford one, i would buy it.
But i suspect the performance would be dissapointing.
a fuel cell bike will suffer from all the same
performance and range limitations that we have been
hearing about a BEV bike.
In fact, this really IS a battery electric bike, with
a small fuel cell range extender.
The fuel cell is 1 kW (with 5kW boost from a battery
for acceleration). The fuel cell is undersized for a
charge sustaining hybrid (outside of urban driving
maybe). 1 kW is certainly not enough to keep this bike
going 50 mph.
fuel availability on this scale is (in my opinion) a
red herring. A six pack of K bottles of H2 in your
backyard will keep this bike fueled up for a whole
year.
~fortunat
--- Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can't wait for the fuel cells to start wandering
> onto the surplus market:
>
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0802_050802_fuelcellcycle_2.html
>
> because I can't afford to buy a bunch of bikes and
> rip the cells out of
> them.
>
> How many people wouldn't change to hydrogen electric
> if it were
> possible? OK, right now hydrogen is a little hard
> to come by, but then
> getting a place to charge isn't convenient like a
> gas station either.
>
> Danny
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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I thought people on the list would be interested....
"
Our Year in Review
by Dana S. Myers
Founder, Myers Motors
It is a year this month (July) since Myers Motors
purchased the bodies
of 70 partly built 3 wheel electric vehicles. Having
never been in the
automotive field before and having never started up a
business from
scratch before (my last job was as president of a
company that did
over $50 million in sales my last full year), I and we
learned many
lessons the hard way.
One of the major things we found out was that there is
not much of an
EV infrastructure to support a highway legal electric
vehicle.
Fortunately, the efforts of many individuals and
companies over the
last 20 years has built up some infrastructure upon
which to build and
we have been relying on them to help us build a
vehicle that gives
back to Americans control over where our
transportation energy dollars
go. Most notably, we are appreciative of Otmar's
efforts to help the
Electric Vehicle world by producing very solid,
dependable controllers.
Another obstacle we discovered after jumping right in
and advertising
these vehicles for sale was that there were more
electrical,
mechanical and production problems associated with the
vehicle than we
ever imagined. Once we fixed one thing, two other
problems surfaced:
We have had to work through wiring and fusing
problems, DC/DC
conversion issues, braking issues, too much brake
pedal pressure
needed to stop the vehicle issue, seat belt height
issues (needs to be
on the hips, not the stomach), swing arm issues,
alignment issues and
we also had to find a controller that reliably works
... and the list
goes on. By the time we got done making all these
changes, we
determined that while the outside still looks the
same, the internal
workings of the vehicle were so much different than
before, so we
decided to name the vehicle the MM 1.0.
After great efforts by our 3 California employees, we
finally had to
close down that shop and move the equipment to
Tallmadge; the distance
was just too great at too young a time in our
company's history to
make long-distance manufacturing work. We now have a
full-time Chief
Engineer, Robert Q. Riley is helping to guide us in
design and
production, and we have a production manager who has
an excellent
history of on-time delivery and meeting quality goals.
Many people have wondered how committed I personally
am to Myers
Motors and electric vehicles.
[snip]About 8 months ago I quit my other job, sold my
company stock
and invested a good bit of it into Myers Motors, which
is now my full
time occupation. In a very real sense, I have burned
my bridges behind
me and so there is only one way to go ... and that is
making
affordable, electric vehicles as a fun and practical
solution to many
of today's pressing transportation needs. So, [snip],
with the help of
EV enthusiasts (like Terry Shaw who is helping us on
our web-site for
free because he wants to support this cause) and with
the help of many
others [snip], we will persevere in producing and
selling a practical
and fun transportation solution, whose time is
certainly coming, if
not already here!
"
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:sorry I put the wrong web addresss should be
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projects.htm
have been doing a little on my mower project , can be seen at
www.grassroots.com under projects.
got the batteries in a rack now :-) steveclunn
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--- Begin Message ---
I _just_ got a call from Don Watt at TransOptions.org, which has been running
an electric station car program in Morristown New Jersey. One of their
participants has closed their office in town and so 6 of their Solectria Force
cars, which are well maintained and have recent batteries and tires, are
_probably_ available for sale. "We are looking for good homes for the
vehicles." They have about 10,000 miles on them (I think he said) and run
well. If you know of anyone who would be interested:
Don Watt
EV projects
973 267-7600
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote:
>On 2005-08-03, Martin Klingensmith wrote:
>
>
>>I can't find the exact modules you're looking at, but one comment would
>>be that you would likely want to use a IGBT that would have lower
>>overall losses at the voltages used in an EV.
>>
>>
>
>Ah, I should have mentioned: I'm one of those motorbicyclist types,
>so probably looking at 48-72V systems (4-6 Lead Acid batteries)
>running at up to 300A (briefly).
>
>You're right though, I should do the numbers on IGBT vs. MOSFET
>once I've worked out the likely amount of time at various loads ...
>it might be that there's a grey area.
>
>-----sharks
>
>
This app. note from IRF interestingly titled "Choose Wisely" recommends
MOSFETs for anything under 100v. Your are correct there is a big gray
area when the frequency is between 10kHz and 100kHz and the voltage
between 200 and 1000 [these are IRF's recommendations] I personally
haven't seen too many IGBTs that like frequencies about 15-20kHz that
can handle a lot of power, but then again I haven't really looked.
<http://www.irf.com/technical-info/whitepaper/choosewisely.pdf>
This is more of an "evtech" list subject, isn't it?
--
Martin Klingensmith
http://wwia.org/
http://nnytech.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4 Aug 2005 at 8:19, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
> These are a simple metal case with 7 individual plastic-housed cells, with
> Evercel-provided interconnects.
I had no idea they were so constructed. My memory isn't what it used to be,
and it's been years now since Evercel began promoting their batteries - but
I thought I remembered seeing photos that looked just like ordinary molded
marine batteries. Having individually replaceable cells probably increases
the mass a bit, but adds quite a bit of flexibility. (I suppose you get
similar flexibility with the individual nicad cells, too.)
It's really a pity that Evercel didn't thrive; I thought these batteries had
some promise.
Thanks for the clarification.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
The Woodburn event is still on for September 4, a month from today. So
make plans to come out and see or race in this event.
NEDRA is getting plenty of press lately so we hope we can get as many
vehicles at this year's race as possible. Wired Magazine has the event
in their upcoming issue. It may be on news stands now.
If anyone plans to come out whether they are racing or coming out to
see the race please let the list know.
T-shirts are being made again this year so reserve yours today.
Roderick will be putting out more information as well about the race.
See ya,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
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--- Begin Message ---
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3259/electraking4wy.jpg The Arcane guys
are having fun with the King three wheeler. They found a brochure.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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--- Begin Message ---
NEDRA was featured both Tuesday and Wednesday on WTOP News Radio in
Washington DC with the NEDRA link listed on their WTOP NewLinks at
http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=16
The link is still there last time I checked. Pretty cool.
WTOP was reporting on Great Mills High School and their record breaking
run at our Power of DC race June 11. Its kind of a mystery why they are
reporting on it more then a month after the race but its great to see a
local school being recognized for their efforts. The Great Mills Green
Hornet is a pretty nice EV. A green converted MR2 with a hornet painted
on the hood. When the car is not racing it is a daily driver for
Calvert County Maryland Councilman Larry Jarboe.
The car raced its best time at 15.938 seconds at 86.5 mph at the Power
of DC race in June with a 252 volt pack.
This is great stuff. NEDRA has been featured recently in quite
unexpected ways. We usually hear about it second hand so apparently
word is getting out or our website is starting to generate some
interest.
We should continue to build on this momentum.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
Power of DC Racing Organizer
http://www.powerofdc.com
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Well, that is our hope.
I just received an email from the BBC. And their Discovery Channel
show, "Top Gear", wants to do an episode on electric drag racing in
England.
Does anyone in the UK have an electric dragster? Paul, would you know
of anyone?
See ya,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
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--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, David Roden wrote:
On 4 Aug 2005 at 8:19, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
These are a simple metal case with 7 individual plastic-housed cells, with
Evercel-provided interconnects.
I had no idea they were so constructed. My memory isn't what it used to be,
and it's been years now since Evercel began promoting their batteries - but
I thought I remembered seeing photos that looked just like ordinary molded
marine batteries. Having individually replaceable cells probably increases
the mass a bit, but adds quite a bit of flexibility. (I suppose you get
similar flexibility with the individual nicad cells, too.)
I'd guess the MB100 batteries might have been a single case, but I don't
know.
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--- Begin Message ---
This could be more of a curse than a blessing.
The folks at Top Gear (the host Jeremy especially) can be pretty rude.
Just because something is featured on the show is no guarantee that it
won't be brutally ridiculed. The show is incredibly entertaining, but if
the car isn't perfect, they don't pull their punches.
I'd be happier at this possibility if it were [similar auto enthusiast
show] Fifth Gear instead, but either way you're still talking about hosts
with professional racing experience, who get to test drive Enzos,
Murcielagos and exotics you haven't heard of, on a regular basis.
--chris
Chip Gribben said:
> Well, that is our hope.
>
> I just received an email from the BBC. And their Discovery Channel
> show, "Top Gear", wants to do an episode on electric drag racing in
> England.
>
> Does anyone in the UK have an electric dragster? Paul, would you know
> of anyone?
>
> See ya,
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA Webmaster
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
Thanks a lot-every little bit helps.
The adventure continues,
Bruce
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--- Begin Message ---
I think you could fit them in if you removed the rear seat. Easier if you
don't have to water them.
I'll bet the 96v would have more range if you had the same number of batteries
( multiple strings)
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:11 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: 96v Voltsrabbit vs 26 Exides or Optimas for a Wayout Rabbit.
Both weigh about the same. Two strings of Optimas or Exides will give you
156v. The sealed batteries will cost more and need regulators. The 96v Rabbit
will need watering but no regulators. The 156v Rabbit will go fast.
Which one will have better range? Will it be hard to stick 26 batteries in a
Rabbit?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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--- Begin Message ---
oh boys look at gate capacitence (16uf), you need a least 8A capable gate
driver to active fast enough such monsters (280A one).
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
> On 2005-08-03, Danny Miller wrote:
> > Digikey has them for $261, but they list 6 as a minimum quantity.
>
> So they do. Thanks!
>
> And a quick leaf through Digikey's book find me a line
> of IXYS MOSFETs which I hadn't found on IXYS's website:
>
> <http://www.ixys.com/Appasp/pdhfet01.asp>
>
> For example: IXFN200N07, a 70V, 200A MOSFET in a SOT-227B, which
> Digikey will sell for the princely sum of US$40 for one ...
>
> -----sharks
> --
> "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore,
> if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not
> smart enough to debug it." -- Brian Kernighan
>
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The controller manufacturer said that where I had an
issue, it could not be an issue with the controller.
90% guess it was in the wiring. So I began
dismantling the fusible link and checked my crimps.
Sure enough, a wiggly wire through the crimp. As the
connection diminishes, resistance increases, and
current draw does as well.
Of course, by this time, I'd already purchased a
new fuse holder, etc. etc. when just re-doing the
connections would've been the solution.
Bottom line: purchase the most expensive crimpers you
can get. It will save you time and money in the long
haul.
EV Grinning again!
peace,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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That sure was a funky looking battery..
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-07%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=evercel
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One of our customers in the UK has an all out drag race electric VW Beatle
running two 8" Sparrow motors and a Zilla Z2K. I have forwarded him the
contact info. By the way, great job on the NEDRA web site and all your work
putting on The Power of DC. There always has to be a point in time where a
great idea takes hold and the masses embrace it.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:43 AM
Subject: NEDRA featured on the BBC
Well, that is our hope.
I just received an email from the BBC. And their Discovery Channel show,
"Top Gear", wants to do an episode on electric drag racing in England.
Does anyone in the UK have an electric dragster? Paul, would you know of
anyone?
See ya,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
400 Amp Telpower DC Power Distribution Fuse, NIB
Cooper Bussmann
Part Number: TPL-CR
Ampere Rating: 400 Amperes
Voltage Rating: 170 Volts DC
Interrupting Rating: 100,000A
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7503503118&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores
800 AMP one
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7503503140&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores
there is 300AMP too...
hope this help
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:10 PM 8/3/05 -0700, you wrote:
Both weigh about the same. Two strings of Optimas or Exides will give you
156v. The sealed batteries will cost more and need regulators. The 96v
Rabbit will need watering but no regulators. The 156v Rabbit will go
fast. Which one will have better range?
Compare your watt hours per system. For the Optimas, I get 55AH x 156V x 2
strings =
17160 watt hours. For the floodeds I get 235AH x 96V = 22560 watt hours.
Will it be hard to stick 26 batteries in a Rabbit?
YES! Unless you want to make everything from the driver's seat back a
solid battery pack. With liberal use of Vaseline, we get 8 under the hood
and 8 in the hatch. You can fit 2 under the rear seat easily, or 4 if you
are a really clever mechanic and can re-route the hand brake cables without
losing functionality. That's 18. The Optimas have about the same
footprint, but are shorter.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where do you get 16uF? I didn't see anything like that anywhere.
Exactly what part did you see this on?
Certainly big MOSFETs require substantial gate drivers if you want it to
switch quickly and thus avoid generating high heat through the DS
junction. The same is true of putting a bunch of smaller ones in
parallel.
Danny
Philippe Borges wrote:
oh boys look at gate capacitence (16uf), you need a least 8A capable gate
driver to active fast enough such monsters (280A one).
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
On 2005-08-03, Danny Miller wrote:
Digikey has them for $261, but they list 6 as a minimum quantity.
So they do. Thanks!
And a quick leaf through Digikey's book find me a line
of IXYS MOSFETs which I hadn't found on IXYS's website:
<http://www.ixys.com/Appasp/pdhfet01.asp>
For example: IXFN200N07, a 70V, 200A MOSFET in a SOT-227B, which
Digikey will sell for the princely sum of US$40 for one ...
-----sharks
--
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore,
if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not
smart enough to debug it." -- Brian Kernighan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
1
Sure enough, a wiggly wire through the crimp.
Congrats Bob!
Of course, by this time, I'd already purchased a
new fuse holder, etc. etc. when just re-doing the
connections would've been the solution.
Newbies, listen to Bob, you WILL be in his shoes sooner or later.
Bottom line: purchase the most expensive crimpers you
can get. It will save you time and money in the long
haul.
Nah, ain't gonna happen. You know people - evryone wants
to save NOW, not in the long haul. Only after suffering
losses personally they [sometimes] change.
Al Godfrey is the only guy I know who does (and re-does
and re-does again) everything with no compromises.
BTW, I do have lug crimper I made from cheap bolt cutter. But
I was tweakig its jaws and bite until the crimp it makes
was no different than factory crimp...
Congrats again,
EV Grinning again!
peace,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've never even looked inside a rabbit, but I have drawn some hope from
Bill Dube's "Wabbit", where he managed to put 6 under the rear seat.
Optimas.
Pictures at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/014.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Electro Automotive
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 96v Voltsrabbit vs 26 Exides or Optimas for a Wayout
Rabbit.
At 11:10 PM 8/3/05 -0700, you wrote:
>Both weigh about the same. Two strings of Optimas or Exides will give
you
>156v. The sealed batteries will cost more and need regulators. The
96v
>Rabbit will need watering but no regulators. The 156v Rabbit will go
>fast. Which one will have better range?
Compare your watt hours per system. For the Optimas, I get 55AH x 156V
x 2
strings =
17160 watt hours. For the floodeds I get 235AH x 96V = 22560 watt
hours.
> Will it be hard to stick 26 batteries in a Rabbit?
YES! Unless you want to make everything from the driver's seat back a
solid battery pack. With liberal use of Vaseline, we get 8 under the
hood
and 8 in the hatch. You can fit 2 under the rear seat easily, or 4 if
you
are a really clever mechanic and can re-route the hand brake cables
without
losing functionality. That's 18. The Optimas have about the same
footprint, but are shorter.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
oups sorry my mistake: IXFN280N085 is 16000pf = 16 nf = 0,016 uf
though still very hard work for a gate driver :^)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
> Where do you get 16uF? I didn't see anything like that anywhere.
> Exactly what part did you see this on?
>
> Certainly big MOSFETs require substantial gate drivers if you want it to
> switch quickly and thus avoid generating high heat through the DS
> junction. The same is true of putting a bunch of smaller ones in
> parallel.
>
> Danny
>
> Philippe Borges wrote:
>
> >oh boys look at gate capacitence (16uf), you need a least 8A capable gate
> >driver to active fast enough such monsters (280A one).
> >Philippe
> >
> >Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> >quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> >Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> >http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:24 AM
> >Subject: Re: 1221 Controller repair& upgrade by Logisystems
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>On 2005-08-03, Danny Miller wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Digikey has them for $261, but they list 6 as a minimum quantity.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>So they do. Thanks!
> >>
> >>And a quick leaf through Digikey's book find me a line
> >>of IXYS MOSFETs which I hadn't found on IXYS's website:
> >>
> >><http://www.ixys.com/Appasp/pdhfet01.asp>
> >>
> >>For example: IXFN200N07, a 70V, 200A MOSFET in a SOT-227B, which
> >>Digikey will sell for the princely sum of US$40 for one ...
> >>
> >>-----sharks
> >>--
> >>"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
> >>
> >>
> >Therefore,
> >
> >
> >>if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition,
not
> >>smart enough to debug it." -- Brian Kernighan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Bill Dube's "Wabbit", where he managed to put 6 under the rear seat.
> Optimas.
>
> Pictures at:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/014.html
Excellent job on that backseat area. Really nice under the hood! Good job.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That makes more sense.
So at 15KHz, 10v Vgs, and you want to get charged in less than 2% of the
cycle period= 120mA of gate current.
I am neglecting the capacitance between the drain and gate. That
coupling can be significant especially with higher voltages. Also gate
cap isn't constant but a function of Vgs itself. Anyways, you get the idea.
Danny
Philippe Borges wrote:
oups sorry my mistake: IXFN280N085 is 16000pf = 16 nf = 0,016 uf
though still very hard work for a gate driver :^)
Philippe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-08-04, Martin Klingensmith wrote:
>
> This is more of an "evtech" list subject, isn't it?
Sorry all. I didn't know that that one existed: I'll subscribe
to that too and stop boring you all here with my enthusiasm for
things that go spark in the night :-).
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4 Aug 2005 at 10:13, Electro Automotive wrote:
> Compare your watt hours per system. For the Optimas, I get 55AH x 156V x
> 2 strings = 17160 watt hours. For the floodeds I get 235AH x 96V = 22560
> watt hours.
With all due respect for your years of experience, I can't entirely agree with
this analysis. The capacity for both batteries will be significantly closer at
real world EV currents.
According to what I can find online, an Optima YT provides 75 amps for 32
minutes. We're working with a double string, so if all goes well, we'll
actually
get 150 amps for 32 minutes, or 80 amp hours. Neglecting sag, a 156v
double string should thus give 80 * 156 = 12.5 kWh into a consistent 150
amp load.
A US 125 battery will deliver 75 amps for 125 minutes; Uve's calculator tells
us that it will provide 134ah at 150 amps. So a 96v string, sweating its way
through at 150 amps, will yield 12.9 kWh.
Thus, the US 125s will provide 3% more energy at 150 amps, while weighing
30kg (6%) less. Not nearly as large a difference as the C20 comparison
would suggest.
But this still isn't entirely fair, because the two packs are not providing the
same amount of ^power^. So, let's even things out and see what happens.
Most conversions (in my experience; YMMV) need about 10kW to maintain
55 mph. So let's repeat the above for a consistent 10kW drive.
At 10kW, our Optima pack will have to produce 64 amps (32a per string), and
our US pack, 104 amps. Uve's calculator tells us that at 32a an Optima will
yield 43.4ah (43.4 * 2 * 156 = 13.5kWh for the pack); and that at 104 amps
the US pack will give us 145ah (145 * 96 = 13.9kWh).
Again we see the same slight 3% advantage for the floodies.
The higher the power demand, the closer the race becomes, and at some
point the Optimas become the better choice (purely on range) for a heavy-
footed driver.
Conversely, in a lazy 30 or 40 mph saunter with a relatively light footed
driver,
the US 125s are likely to walk all over the Optimas for range.
Now, just for the heck of it, let's compare specific energy for these packs at
this power level (10kW) :
Optima: 13.5kWh / (26 * 19.9kg) = 26Wh/kg
US 125: 13.9kWh / (16 * 30.45kg) = 28.5Wh/kg
dr
--- End Message ---
