EV Digest 4562
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Personal Interest (now with more hybrid truck talk!)
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: E-Meter Questions
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: E-Meter Questions
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Questions regarding driving an EV
by fest-ev-a fest-ev-a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Questions regarding driving an EV
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Zebra Batteries - Update
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) test
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) li-poly batteries
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Zebra Batteries - Update
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-Meter Questions
by Justin Southam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Enthusiastic newby looking for good advice and oil proce record
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Prius Conversion?
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Questions regarding driving an EV
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Questions regarding driving an EV
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) A/C motor problems
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: A/C motor problems
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: A/C motor problems
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: A/C motor problems
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
As you may or may not know, I'm just about to start my freshmen year of
college. I'm excited to be heading off to Bradley University in Peoria,
Illinois. Yes, I'm down to 10 days now until I have to drive the "short"
distance from Texas to Illinois... but I guess that's one way to see
mid-America ;-)
I'm sad to say that I won't be taking my Electric Jeep Cherokee to
school with me... it'll have to stay at home. I'm hurriedly trying to
finish some "upgrades" which will make the Jeep easier to drive and
maintain before I leave. I want my mom to be able to drive it without
having to constantly tinker with it as I have been doing. This is why,
among other things, I'm really making an effort to finish installing
this E-meter (better instrumentation), a motor speed sensor and cooling
fans (to protect the motor), and trying to get the stupid rear brakes to
work good again (safer).
In the meantime, I've been looking for a replacement for my Jeep
Wrangler (which is gas-powered). The Wrangler is fun, but since owning
it, I really wanted to pursue making it less reliant on Gasoline. But it
has little room for batteries and such, so my options for making it an
EV or a hybrid would likely be very difficult and/or expensive. Not to
mention that the Wrangler is hot, noisy, and can't haul much, making it
impractical for me as I get ready to drive 17 hours to move to Illinois.
So I decided to go in search of a small truck. Not only so I could
_actually_ carry cargo, but also in the hopes of being able to convert
it to an EV or make it a hybrid or _something_ along these lines in the
near future. Well, after months of searching for the "right" truck, I
ended up buying a 1999 Mazda B3000 which does not have 4 wheel drive
(see... I'm learning). However, it is 6-cylinder instead of the
4-cylinder I was hoping to get, but hey, the price was right and its in
very nice condition. If anyone cares, some photos are here:
http://www.driveev.com/temp/mazda/
Okay, so to the point... I've learned two interesting things about my
new truck. First, I discovered that the truck weighs 3700 lbs (I CAT
scaled it). So go ahead and make fun of me for wanting to start another
_heavy_ EV project after the Cherokee... I should have learned by now...
but all I can say is I swear I didn't know it was this heavy when I
bought it. :-P The other interesting thing I learned is that the 3.0L
engine can run Ethanol and this truck is labeled as a "Flexible Fuel
Vehicle". I know nothing about ethanol, where to get it, how to properly
"run" it, etc... but it seems like something worth pursuing? Comments?
Regardless of that, I plan to start doing the little things I can to
make this truck more efficient. First on my list is to start converting
the lighting to LEDs like I did on my Cherokee, replace the big
mechanical fan with a temperature-controlled electric one, etc. Then I'd
like to convert the mechanical accessories like Power Steering and A/C
to electric units run off a grid (and maybe solar) charged battery pack
(which would take the place of the traditional alternator/SLI battery
system. Though, I'm curious to hear who else has already done something
like this, and get an idea of the kind of system used (i.e. battery and
charger type/size) and more importantly, what the results were like.
Thanks for any input,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One suggestion to folks that I've found works well: once you have your
Link10/Emeter wiring figured out, rather than remember which wire to
disconnect before others when you have to remove the meter for whatever
reason, instead, attach a connector to the back of the Link10 with mating
connector to your wiring harness wires. Then, when you have to service
something in your electric circuit, or remove a battery, just pull the
Link10 connector and no worries.
Someone on the list, maybe Rich Rudman(?) once suggested this to me once
and I'm so glad I listened.
-Myles Twete, electric barge cruiser "The Reach of Tide"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Nick Viera
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 3:33 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: E-Meter Questions
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > Madman's added E-meter rules" NEVER remove the battery
> negative from
> > the shunt. The E-meter power negative... and the shunt negative are
> > always >hooked up. don't breaker or fuse these lines.
>
> I've been working on my Jeep's wiring today, and I'm almost ready to
> power up my E-meter for the first time. However, I'm trying
> to be extra
> careful so I don't fry the E-meter.
>
> Some drawings of my current HV wiring are here:
> http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg20pics/e2revc.png
> http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg20pics/e5.png
>
> As you see I have an Anderson connector which when pulled splits my
> battery pack in half. I understand that disconnecting the
> E-meter from
> pack negative while it's other wires are connected will fry
> it. But what
> would splitting my battery pack up while other loads are
> connected do?
> Will I fry my E-meter if I pull the Anderson connector in my
> Jeep while
> the meter is on?
>
> Danny Miller wrote:
> > Now correct me if I'm wrong but logically if the meter is
> constructed
> > this way then disconnecting the shunt from ground, with the shunt
> > still connected to the battery and the e-meter and the e-meter's
> > still sharing that ground, this would also result in frying the
> > electronics if there is any load still connected from the ground to
> > the positive side of the battery.
>
> I don't understand what you're saying. Are you referring to battery
> negative as "ground" (in which case you'd be saying to disconnect the
> shunt from battery negative while leaving the shunt connected
> to battery
> negative?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have five locations where I time share two emeters. I use a five pin DIN
connector for a disconnect. I have been using them since the emeter came
out. I also have a fuse in each of the positive supply lines marked, "make
first,disconnect second" and "disconnect first, make second" so the meter
powers up right.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:00 PM
Subject: RE: E-Meter Questions
> One suggestion to folks that I've found works well: once you have your
> Link10/Emeter wiring figured out, rather than remember which wire to
> disconnect before others when you have to remove the meter for whatever
> reason, instead, attach a connector to the back of the Link10 with mating
> connector to your wiring harness wires. Then, when you have to service
> something in your electric circuit, or remove a battery, just pull the
> Link10 connector and no worries.
> Someone on the list, maybe Rich Rudman(?) once suggested this to me once
> and I'm so glad I listened.
>
> -Myles Twete, electric barge cruiser "The Reach of Tide"
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Nick Viera
> > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 3:33 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: E-Meter Questions
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Rich Rudman wrote:
> > > Madman's added E-meter rules" NEVER remove the battery
> > negative from
> > > the shunt. The E-meter power negative... and the shunt negative are
> > > always >hooked up. don't breaker or fuse these lines.
> >
> > I've been working on my Jeep's wiring today, and I'm almost ready to
> > power up my E-meter for the first time. However, I'm trying
> > to be extra
> > careful so I don't fry the E-meter.
> >
> > Some drawings of my current HV wiring are here:
> > http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg20pics/e2revc.png
> > http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg20pics/e5.png
> >
> > As you see I have an Anderson connector which when pulled splits my
> > battery pack in half. I understand that disconnecting the
> > E-meter from
> > pack negative while it's other wires are connected will fry
> > it. But what
> > would splitting my battery pack up while other loads are
> > connected do?
> > Will I fry my E-meter if I pull the Anderson connector in my
> > Jeep while
> > the meter is on?
> >
> > Danny Miller wrote:
> > > Now correct me if I'm wrong but logically if the meter is
> > constructed
> > > this way then disconnecting the shunt from ground, with the shunt
> > > still connected to the battery and the e-meter and the e-meter's
> > > still sharing that ground, this would also result in frying the
> > > electronics if there is any load still connected from the ground to
> > > the positive side of the battery.
> >
> > I don't understand what you're saying. Are you referring to battery
> > negative as "ground" (in which case you'd be saying to disconnect the
> > shunt from battery negative while leaving the shunt connected
> > to battery
> > negative?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > -Nick
> > http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> > 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> > ---------------------------
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
I've been doing a quite a bit of reading about converting a car and
all the various information about motors, controllers, batteries,
chargers and so on. I've been reading books on the subject and
consulting both this wonderful mailing list and many Internet sites.
One thing that's kind of boggled my mind is the actual process of
driving an EV. Let me explain about a week ago or so I saw a post on
the EV list that said that in an EV one has to up shift to accelerate,
now pardon my ignorance at the moment, but this would mean say going
from 2nd to 3rd or 4th to accelerate and that one should do most of
their driving in a higher gear say 2nd or 3rd depending on the ratios.
Am I correct in thinking this, is this in fact true? I did notice one
thing about electric motor specs and I'm no engineer so please bear
with me. OK an electric motor, say an ADC 6.5"
- Pulls more amps at start up at lower RPMs than at higher RPMs
- Has all/most of its torque at lower RPMs
- Must not be revved to high.
OK with all this in mind then one needs to put the transmission in a
higher gear (3 or 4) to be able to take advantage of the torque that
the motor generates at lower RPMs because in such a gear the motor
would be able to provide the higher torque for acceleration since it's
turning at a slower RPM? Then it would also makes sense that since you
want to keep your amperage down during regular driving to conserve
battery autonomy you would drive in a lower gear (2-3) because the
motor is spinning at a higer RPM and pulling less amps, but has much
less torque which isn't a problem since at a cruising speed the
inertia of the car helps keep the car at speed.
Hope some of this makes sense.
thanks,
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
91 Festiva L electric conversion coming soon...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Assuming that you are using a current limited PWM controller and a series
wound brushed motor, the torque you get out of the motor is a constant up to
the RPM where the controller comes out of current limit and goes to 100%
duty cycle. This is the peak power RPM.
As you drop below this RPM, the power drops off linearly with RPM.
As you go above this RPM the motor back EMF causes the current to drop
producing a loss of power.
To keep the controller and motor cool, you run the minimum amps to produce
enough power to keep the car moving (relatively high RPMs).
To maximize acceleration, you want to run the motor near the peak power RPM
(middle RPMs).
You do not want to run the motor much less than 70% of the peak power RPM
because the motor and controller are less efficient.
The Max HP point is dependent on the battery pack voltage under load ,the
motor current limit of the controller and the back EMF characteristics of
the motor, all of which are highly variable.
If you can nail down the pack voltage, the controller current limit, and the
model of motor of interest, someone might have experience with that
combination and be able to give you specific information on the properties
of that drive combination.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "fest-ev-a fest-ev-a" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:51 PM
Subject: Questions regarding driving an EV
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've been doing a quite a bit of reading about converting a car and
> all the various information about motors, controllers, batteries,
> chargers and so on. I've been reading books on the subject and
> consulting both this wonderful mailing list and many Internet sites.
> One thing that's kind of boggled my mind is the actual process of
> driving an EV. Let me explain about a week ago or so I saw a post on
> the EV list that said that in an EV one has to up shift to accelerate,
> now pardon my ignorance at the moment, but this would mean say going
> from 2nd to 3rd or 4th to accelerate and that one should do most of
> their driving in a higher gear say 2nd or 3rd depending on the ratios.
> Am I correct in thinking this, is this in fact true? I did notice one
> thing about electric motor specs and I'm no engineer so please bear
> with me. OK an electric motor, say an ADC 6.5"
>
> - Pulls more amps at start up at lower RPMs than at higher RPMs
> - Has all/most of its torque at lower RPMs
> - Must not be revved to high.
>
> OK with all this in mind then one needs to put the transmission in a
> higher gear (3 or 4) to be able to take advantage of the torque that
> the motor generates at lower RPMs because in such a gear the motor
> would be able to provide the higher torque for acceleration since it's
> turning at a slower RPM? Then it would also makes sense that since you
> want to keep your amperage down during regular driving to conserve
> battery autonomy you would drive in a lower gear (2-3) because the
> motor is spinning at a higer RPM and pulling less amps, but has much
> less torque which isn't a problem since at a cruising speed the
> inertia of the car helps keep the car at speed.
>
> Hope some of this makes sense.
>
> thanks,
>
> Stefano
> http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
> 91 Festiva L electric conversion coming soon...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 07:56:57AM -0700, Don Cameron wrote:
> I was just chatting with a CEBI USA distributor (www.cebi.com), who are now
> the manufacturers of the ZEBRA battery.
<..snip..>
> Although they may not be a suitable battery for a personal EV because of
> the warm up time, they may be a suitable battery for an industrial
> application.
What is the warm up time on this battery? I'm considering one of these for
my conversion.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ignore
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all, first time post, been listening for a while though.
First off, im currently developing a fiat 500 conversion for use in the
city. Using an ac drive system (siemens or mes-dea I think) and the
best batteries I can get my hands on.
I found out about the "fiamp" conversion done by Marko Mongillo..
however his email link is dead. Anyone know any more about him or his
car? I understand it was a dc system with lead acid batteries.. i think
with my current 40 ah 375v pack coming in at 160 kgs (if memory serves
me.. paperwork is at home) I should be able to make rather a nippy car.
Li-poly seems a far better solution than li-ion at the moment despite
the extra cost, due to the current handling..
Anyone actually used li-poly in an ev yet? How does the ideal
charge/dischage regime differ from other batteries? Is there any way I
can realistically epect to improve on the 500 duty cycles the
manufacturer (kokam) quotes?
Finally, of the little advice ive had so far, ive been steered towards
the siemens drive systems, rather than the mes-dea ones. With very
little info to go on I don't know why. Anyone got experience with the
mes motors/controllers? They seem slightly more compact, and a bit
cheaper than the siemens systems.
Thanks all...
Robin.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Google "Zebra Battery" will tell all...
http://www.mpoweruk.com/zebra.htm
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Austin
Sent: August 9, 2005 1:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zebra Batteries - Update
On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 07:56:57AM -0700, Don Cameron wrote:
> I was just chatting with a CEBI USA distributor (www.cebi.com), who
> are now the manufacturers of the ZEBRA battery.
<..snip..>
> Although they may not be a suitable battery for a personal EV because
> of the warm up time, they may be a suitable battery for an industrial
> application.
What is the warm up time on this battery? I'm considering one of these for
my conversion.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe, have you considered shortening some of the pins to control the
order they mate in? I could only find 1 din socket to check but it looks as
though you could shorten pins by upto at least half their length and still
have them mate satisfactorily. Shortening the 2nd and/or 4th (of 5) pins
should make it all but impossible to connect in the wrong order. The
shortened pins could be different lengths too if necessary. What do you
think? The Emeter could be supplied prewired to reduce the risk further.
The idea could be taken further connectorising the prescaler and shunt.
Nervous installers may welcome the simplified installation procedure.
Cheers,
Justin
At 23:31 08-08-05 -0700, you wrote:
>I have five locations where I time share two emeters. I use a five pin DIN
>connector for a disconnect. I have been using them since the emeter came
>out. I also have a fuse in each of the positive supply lines marked, "make
>first,disconnect second" and "disconnect first, make second" so the meter
>powers up right.
>
>Joe Smalley
>Rural Kitsap County WA
>Fiesta 48 volts
>NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:00 PM
>Subject: RE: E-Meter Questions
>
>
>> One suggestion to folks that I've found works well: once you have your
>> Link10/Emeter wiring figured out, rather than remember which wire to
>> disconnect before others when you have to remove the meter for whatever
>> reason, instead, attach a connector to the back of the Link10 with mating
>> connector to your wiring harness wires. Then, when you have to service
>> something in your electric circuit, or remove a battery, just pull the
>> Link10 connector and no worries.
>> Someone on the list, maybe Rich Rudman(?) once suggested this to me once
>> and I'm so glad I listened.
>>
>> -Myles Twete, electric barge cruiser "The Reach of Tide"
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Behalf Of Nick Viera
>> > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 3:33 PM
>> > To: [email protected]
>> > Subject: Re: E-Meter Questions
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Rich Rudman wrote:
>> > > Madman's added E-meter rules" NEVER remove the battery
>> > negative from
>> > > the shunt. The E-meter power negative... and the shunt negative are
>> > > always >hooked up. don't breaker or fuse these lines.
>> >
>> > I've been working on my Jeep's wiring today, and I'm almost ready to
>> > power up my E-meter for the first time. However, I'm trying
>> > to be extra
>> > careful so I don't fry the E-meter.
>> >
>> > Some drawings of my current HV wiring are here:
>> > http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg20pics/e2revc.png
>> > http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg20pics/e5.png
>> >
>> > As you see I have an Anderson connector which when pulled splits my
>> > battery pack in half. I understand that disconnecting the
>> > E-meter from
>> > pack negative while it's other wires are connected will fry
>> > it. But what
>> > would splitting my battery pack up while other loads are
>> > connected do?
>> > Will I fry my E-meter if I pull the Anderson connector in my
>> > Jeep while
>> > the meter is on?
>> >
>> > Danny Miller wrote:
>> > > Now correct me if I'm wrong but logically if the meter is
>> > constructed
>> > > this way then disconnecting the shunt from ground, with the shunt
>> > > still connected to the battery and the e-meter and the e-meter's
>> > > still sharing that ground, this would also result in frying the
>> > > electronics if there is any load still connected from the ground to
>> > > the positive side of the battery.
>> >
>> > I don't understand what you're saying. Are you referring to battery
>> > negative as "ground" (in which case you'd be saying to disconnect the
>> > shunt from battery negative while leaving the shunt connected
>> > to battery
>> > negative?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > --
>> > -Nick
>> > http://Go.DriveEV.com/
>> > 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
>> > ---------------------------
>> >
>>
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.2/65 - Release Date: 07-08-05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Phillip, Chip and All
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >From: Chip Sandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >If I were to go the EV route, I would need
> something that could accelerate
> >quickly (preferrably 0-60 in 7-8 >seconds) and be
> able to hit a top speed
> >of 75-80 MPH.
>
> Why do you "need" a 0-60 time of 7-8 seconds? I
To merge into traffic, burn rubber, dispell myths,
convince others EV's don't need to be slow!!!
> have actually met people
> who voluntarily drive cars with 0-60 times of (
> gasp!!) 12 seconds or more,
> and they can keep up with traffic and enter highways
> safely.
> One reason for this odd choice in vehicles is that
> such cars, in general,
> use less fossil fuel and produce less pollution.
>
> In an EV, range and performance don't generally go
> hand in hand. If you
> insist on that much performance (and especially if
> you use it on a regular
> basis) you will be making the conversion much more
> difficult and expensive.
Not nessasarily. If doing a very light EV like a
kit car, Karman Ghia, Trimuph TR-6, ect, or my style
EV's, light, aero, low drag, you can easily get great
performance cheaply.
And unlike gas cars, you don't have to sacrifice
eff to get it or have less range.
I'll get it just using 2 A89 type motors, a 450
amp controller and a 72vdc GC batt pack!!!
It's not the EV drive but what you put it in!!
Last night the price of oil hit $63.94/bbl with
over $65 I hear for Nov delivery. And it's going up
from there!!
Be glad you all have EV's!!!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Phil
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Philip,
I too drive an ICE ECHO awesome little machine. I'm currently working
on converting a 91 Festiva and I'm intrigued that you built your own
adapter and a taper lock. Since I'm pretty good with my hands at
fashioning parts and have access to some machine shop tools I'd
appreciate it if you could post some pics of the adapter.
thanks,
Stefano
On 8/8/05, Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >From: Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: Prius Conversion?
> >Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:35:35 -0700
> >
> >On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 01:11:08PM -0400, Philip Marino wrote:
> ><..snip..>
> > > My Echo was down to 1575 lbs with all ICE equipment removed, so I would
> > > guess a stripped Prius would be about 1700 or so.
> >
> >You've done an Echo conversion? Did it work out?
> >
> >Did the Echo have electric power steering?
> >
> >Do you have pictures?
> >
> >Thnks!
> >
>
> The conversion is going well, but not on the road yet. it's taken more time
> than I expected - mostly to figure out the best (or, at least a good) way
> to do things. But, I'm not in a rush - I enjoy working on it.
>
> I'm also building my own charger - automated, isolated, temperature
> compensated, two stage (constant current + constant voltage ) with an
> equalization mode. It's big and heavy, though, so it'll stay in the garage.
>
> I also own an ICE Echo, so, by doing the conversion, I've become very
> familiar with the Echo, and it should be easy to do any repair on the ICE
> car if it ever needs it. ( Not likely anyway, since it's a Toyota)
>
>
> The motor is now in place ( with a homemade adapter) and I've driven it up
> and down the driveway with a single 12 volt battery. Eveything seems fine
> so far. The motor installation was pretty straightforward.
> I made a conventional taper-lock type adapter, and I'm using the original
> manual tranny with clutch.
>
> Two of the motor mounts were on the tranny, so all I had to do was make an
> adapter for the third mount ( right hand side) that fits on the end of the
> motor ( ADC 8) and attaches to the original engine mount.
>
> I'm working on the battery boxes now - 14 8VGC batteries total: 5 underhood,
> and 9 in a box sunk into the trunk floor. They'll be insulated and heated (
> only when plugged in to the charger) The underhood area is very small, so
> fitting in even 5 batteries is a challenge ( with an inch of insulation on
> all sides)
>
> The car originally had conventional engine-driven-pump power steering.
> I've converted mine to manual - just added a fluid reservoir to keep the
> rack lubricated. Since the car is small and the tires will be at a high
> pressure, I'm sure the increased steering effort won't be a problem. A local
> junkyard could get me a used manual rack for $200, but I won't bother unless
> it's a problem.
>
> I've taken LOTS of pictures along the way. Someday I'll put together a web
> site. When I do, I'll post the URL on this loop.
>
> If there's a particular picture anyone wants to see, let me know. I can put
> it up and send the URL.
>
> Phil
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I look at it this way...
When I took a hill in 4th gear one time, my battery
amps (as opposed to my motor amps) went so high that I
melted a couple of terminals.
After that, I kept the RPMs higher and took the
hills in 2nd. My Civic will do 60 in 2nd, so the
point is rather moot, now. But at the time, it helped
me to regard a series-wound motor as a transformer.
Hope that helps,
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Assuming that you are using a current limited PWM
> controller and a series
> wound brushed motor, the torque you get out of the
> motor is a constant up to
> the RPM where the controller comes out of current
> limit and goes to 100%
> duty cycle. This is the peak power RPM.
>
> As you drop below this RPM, the power drops off
> linearly with RPM.
>
> As you go above this RPM the motor back EMF causes
> the current to drop
> producing a loss of power.
>
> To keep the controller and motor cool, you run the
> minimum amps to produce
> enough power to keep the car moving (relatively high
> RPMs).
>
> To maximize acceleration, you want to run the motor
> near the peak power RPM
> (middle RPMs).
>
> You do not want to run the motor much less than 70%
> of the peak power RPM
> because the motor and controller are less efficient.
>
> The Max HP point is dependent on the battery pack
> voltage under load ,the
> motor current limit of the controller and the back
> EMF characteristics of
> the motor, all of which are highly variable.
>
> If you can nail down the pack voltage, the
> controller current limit, and the
> model of motor of interest, someone might have
> experience with that
> combination and be able to give you specific
> information on the properties
> of that drive combination.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fest-ev-a fest-ev-a" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:51 PM
> Subject: Questions regarding driving an EV
>
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I've been doing a quite a bit of reading about
> converting a car and
> > all the various information about motors,
> controllers, batteries,
> > chargers and so on. I've been reading books on the
> subject and
> > consulting both this wonderful mailing list and
> many Internet sites.
> > One thing that's kind of boggled my mind is the
> actual process of
> > driving an EV. Let me explain about a week ago or
> so I saw a post on
> > the EV list that said that in an EV one has to up
> shift to accelerate,
> > now pardon my ignorance at the moment, but this
> would mean say going
> > from 2nd to 3rd or 4th to accelerate and that one
> should do most of
> > their driving in a higher gear say 2nd or 3rd
> depending on the ratios.
> > Am I correct in thinking this, is this in fact
> true? I did notice one
> > thing about electric motor specs and I'm no
> engineer so please bear
> > with me. OK an electric motor, say an ADC 6.5"
> >
> > - Pulls more amps at start up at lower RPMs than
> at higher RPMs
> > - Has all/most of its torque at lower RPMs
> > - Must not be revved to high.
> >
> > OK with all this in mind then one needs to put the
> transmission in a
> > higher gear (3 or 4) to be able to take advantage
> of the torque that
> > the motor generates at lower RPMs because in such
> a gear the motor
> > would be able to provide the higher torque for
> acceleration since it's
> > turning at a slower RPM? Then it would also makes
> sense that since you
> > want to keep your amperage down during regular
> driving to conserve
> > battery autonomy you would drive in a lower gear
> (2-3) because the
> > motor is spinning at a higer RPM and pulling less
> amps, but has much
> > less torque which isn't a problem since at a
> cruising speed the
> > inertia of the car helps keep the car at speed.
> >
> > Hope some of this makes sense.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > Stefano
> > http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
> > 91 Festiva L electric conversion coming soon...
> >
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my EV that has a standard 3 speed transmission with a overall first gear
ratio of 19.5:1 the acceleration is very violent from 0 to 5 mph and than drops
off some what up to 30 mph. The battery ampere is starts at 600 amps and and
levels off to 50 amps with the battery pack voltage 170 volts to 185 volts on
a full charge battery which takes about 10 seconds.
Now to continue the acceleration, I shift to 2nd gear which has a overall ratio
of 13.9:1 and continue to acceleration to 40 mph. The battery ampere is back
up to 600 amps and levels off to 80 amps. This is much slower acceleration
because of the torque and gear change.
Shifting to 3rd gear with a overall ratio of 5.57:1 I can continue the
acceleration to 90 mph (using 300 AH cobalt batteries). The ampere is still
above 600 amps and voltage drop to 170 volts, but it's a much slow
acceleration.
Maybe this was meant that you need to shift to a higher gear to continue the
acceleration to a higher speed.
I experiment in trying to start out in 3rd gear or 5.57:1 overall ratio which
resulted in a lot slower acceleration trying to keep it below 600 battery amps
(the limits are now set at 400 amps with the Trojan T-145 batteries because the
battery terminals are not welded and are mechanical connected. They shrink
back quite a bit or lose connection torque from 100 inch lbs to 60 inches lbs
every time I go above 400 amps).
I find its better to accelerated at normal speed, not a press to floor
acceleration in 1st gear. This is much easier on the brushes and commentator.
My 11 inch GE motor ran 30 years with perfect brush and commentator conditions.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: fest-ev-a fest-ev-a<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 8:51 PM
Subject: Questions regarding driving an EV
Hello everyone,
I've been doing a quite a bit of reading about converting a car and
all the various information about motors, controllers, batteries,
chargers and so on. I've been reading books on the subject and
consulting both this wonderful mailing list and many Internet sites.
One thing that's kind of boggled my mind is the actual process of
driving an EV. Let me explain about a week ago or so I saw a post on
the EV list that said that in an EV one has to up shift to accelerate,
now pardon my ignorance at the moment, but this would mean say going
from 2nd to 3rd or 4th to accelerate and that one should do most of
their driving in a higher gear say 2nd or 3rd depending on the ratios.
Am I correct in thinking this, is this in fact true? I did notice one
thing about electric motor specs and I'm no engineer so please bear
with me. OK an electric motor, say an ADC 6.5"
- Pulls more amps at start up at lower RPMs than at higher RPMs
- Has all/most of its torque at lower RPMs
- Must not be revved to high.
OK with all this in mind then one needs to put the transmission in a
higher gear (3 or 4) to be able to take advantage of the torque that
the motor generates at lower RPMs because in such a gear the motor
would be able to provide the higher torque for acceleration since it's
turning at a slower RPM? Then it would also makes sense that since you
want to keep your amperage down during regular driving to conserve
battery autonomy you would drive in a lower gear (2-3) because the
motor is spinning at a higer RPM and pulling less amps, but has much
less torque which isn't a problem since at a cruising speed the
inertia of the car helps keep the car at speed.
Hope some of this makes sense.
thanks,
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net<http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net/>
91 Festiva L electric conversion coming soon...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone. As a recap to my introduction, I live in Brentwood, TN and am a
real newby to EVs. Like Brad Jensen, who recently introduced himself, I bought
2 EVs last month and of course, both were not running at the time (dead
batteries). I bought Solectria E-10s with Magnachargers in them. My intent
was to clean them up and decide which one I liked better and sell the other.
I'm into the first one and I am having trouble with the motors and need help.
I think I may have exhausted a couple of others on the list so far, like Victor
T and Jim H. Thanks go out to these two as they've been a real help so far but
we haven't gotten the problem fixed yet, so here goes.
As many of you know, the E-10s have two controllers, Brusa AMC 320, and two
motors, I believe these are gtx 20, or something like that. Anyway, I removed
the Magnacharger from one because not all the parts were there (controller was
missing) and cleaned up the truck while waiting for new battery money (lots of
Arizona desert inside everything!). I put new bats in on Sunday and hooked all
the wires up. At least I'm pretty sure they are right because everything
works... except the motors. Of course, when I bought them, the motors and
controllers were not connected to anything so I'm going by what looks to be the
right connections. (no manuals with the trucks)
Here's the problem... When I press on the accelerator, the motors are bucking
and the tires don't turn. I disconnected the drive belts (for those that don't
know, the E-10s have a drive belt system). It's amazing how strong those belts
are and how difficult they are to get off without directions. Anyway, I got
the belts off without any damage to them. Now when I press on the accelerator,
the motors just kind of shutter back and forth rather than spin. Without any
power they spin quite freely and smoothly by hand. Put on the power and they
act like they don't know which way to turn. Anyone out there with A/C motor
knowledge have any ideas? Anyone with an E-10 that has done this before?
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated as my wife is beginning to look
at me with that "what have you done with our money" look. I keep reassuring her
that it will be ok and not cost too much to fix because they ran when they were
shut off.
Jeff Wilson
USA (Ret)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's the problem... When I press on the accelerator, the motors are bucking
and the tires don't turn. I disconnected the drive belts (for those that don't
know, the E-10s have a drive belt system). It's amazing how strong those belts
are and how difficult they are to get off without directions. Anyway, I got
the belts off without any damage to them. Now when I press on the accelerator,
the motors just kind of shutter back and forth rather than spin. Without any
power they spin quite freely and smoothly by hand. Put on the power and they
act like they don't know which way to turn. Anyone out there with A/C motor
knowledge have any ideas? Anyone with an E-10 that has done this before?
Sounds a bit like what happened to my Prizm. On my car there is a speed
reference sensor on each motor axle. Little HP part, same as they use in
printers to find axle position. It's used for figuring out where the
motor is for programming the vector control. Remove that and the
controller has no clue where the motor is.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you certain the motor coils are correctly phased?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi everyone. As a recap to my introduction, I live in Brentwood, TN and am a
real newby to EVs. Like Brad Jensen, who recently introduced himself, I bought
2 EVs last month and of course, both were not running at the time (dead
batteries). I bought Solectria E-10s with Magnachargers in them. My intent
was to clean them up and decide which one I liked better and sell the other.
I'm into the first one and I am having trouble with the motors and need help.
I think I may have exhausted a couple of others on the list so far, like Victor
T and Jim H. Thanks go out to these two as they've been a real help so far but
we haven't gotten the problem fixed yet, so here goes.
As many of you know, the E-10s have two controllers, Brusa AMC 320, and two
motors, I believe these are gtx 20, or something like that. Anyway, I removed
the Magnacharger from one because not all the parts were there (controller was
missing) and cleaned up the truck while waiting for new battery money (lots of
Arizona desert inside everything!). I put new bats in on Sunday and hooked all
the wires up. At least I'm pretty sure they are right because everything
works... except the motors. Of course, when I bought them, the motors and
controllers were not connected to anything so I'm going by what looks to be the
right connections. (no manuals with the trucks)
Here's the problem... When I press on the accelerator, the motors are bucking
and the tires don't turn. I disconnected the drive belts (for those that don't
know, the E-10s have a drive belt system). It's amazing how strong those belts
are and how difficult they are to get off without directions. Anyway, I got
the belts off without any damage to them. Now when I press on the accelerator,
the motors just kind of shutter back and forth rather than spin. Without any
power they spin quite freely and smoothly by hand. Put on the power and they
act like they don't know which way to turn. Anyone out there with A/C motor
knowledge have any ideas? Anyone with an E-10 that has done this before?
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated as my wife is beginning to look at me with
that "what have you done with our money" look. I keep reassuring her that it
will be ok and not cost too much to fix because they ran when they were shut off.
Jeff Wilson
USA (Ret)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think so. The motor controllers have color coded connectors and the
motors have like connections. They are red white and blue. So I think they
should be OK. Victor and Jim both suggested (late last night) that I try
switching any two wires on each motor to change the phase. I haven't tried
it yet, but will tonight after I get home.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Poulsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 9:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A/C motor problems
Are you certain the motor coils are correctly phased?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Hi everyone. As a recap to my introduction, I live in Brentwood, TN and am
a real newby to EVs. Like Brad Jensen, who recently introduced himself, I
bought 2 EVs last month and of course, both were not running at the time
(dead batteries). I bought Solectria E-10s with Magnachargers in them. My
intent was to clean them up and decide which one I liked better and sell the
other. I'm into the first one and I am having trouble with the motors and
need help. I think I may have exhausted a couple of others on the list so
far, like Victor T and Jim H. Thanks go out to these two as they've been a
real help so far but we haven't gotten the problem fixed yet, so here goes.
>
>As many of you know, the E-10s have two controllers, Brusa AMC 320, and two
motors, I believe these are gtx 20, or something like that. Anyway, I
removed the Magnacharger from one because not all the parts were there
(controller was missing) and cleaned up the truck while waiting for new
battery money (lots of Arizona desert inside everything!). I put new bats
in on Sunday and hooked all the wires up. At least I'm pretty sure they are
right because everything works... except the motors. Of course, when I
bought them, the motors and controllers were not connected to anything so
I'm going by what looks to be the right connections. (no manuals with the
trucks)
>
>Here's the problem... When I press on the accelerator, the motors are
bucking and the tires don't turn. I disconnected the drive belts (for those
that don't know, the E-10s have a drive belt system). It's amazing how
strong those belts are and how difficult they are to get off without
directions. Anyway, I got the belts off without any damage to them. Now
when I press on the accelerator, the motors just kind of shutter back and
forth rather than spin. Without any power they spin quite freely and
smoothly by hand. Put on the power and they act like they don't know which
way to turn. Anyone out there with A/C motor knowledge have any ideas?
Anyone with an E-10 that has done this before?
>
>Any and all help would be greatly appreciated as my wife is beginning to
look at me with that "what have you done with our money" look. I keep
reassuring her that it will be ok and not cost too much to fix because they
ran when they were shut off.
>
>Jeff Wilson
>USA (Ret)
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
