EV Digest 4561
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Super Capacitors and Li-Ion pack in parallel
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Super Capacitors and Li-Ion pack in parallel
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: E-Meter Questions
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Blowing fuses likely solved
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Blowing fuses likely solved
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Patent disclosure? (was: RE: If you want motorcycle range...)
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Riker TH!NK City EV news
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Newbie
by "Brad Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Newbie
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Newbie and Prius batteries.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Enthusiastic newby looking for good advice
by Chip Sandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Prius Conversion?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What to do with excess regen power
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Prius Conversion?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Enthusiastic newby looking for good advice
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Prius Conversion?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Riker TH!NK City EV news
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Prius Conversion?
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Prius Conversion?
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: soldering nicads?
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: soldering nicads?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Prius Conversion - Prius battery
by "Brad Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) OT: efficient reservoirs
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Super Capacitors and Li-Ion pack in parallel
by "Peter Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: OT: efficient reservoirs
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: OT: efficient reservoirs
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Super Capacitors and Li-Ion pack in parallel
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I will ask.
Victor
Jamie Marshall (GAMES) wrote:
Any idea on the price? Most of their stuff has price listed, not this
monster.
-Jamie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fudging need not be so direct. For example, the spec says 97%-99%
efficiency at Ilow > 40 amps (I guess that could be output or input).
Due to the need for idle current that is understandable, the efficiency
might only be 10% at 50mA load.
I'm quite used to situations where the published specs can be met but
"individual results may vary", i.e. you get different results when you
try it in your specific situation.
Anyways, I wonder if they water cooled the inductor? That would be
different. Cores lose performance at even moderately high temps and
cooling them is quite difficult. There's no surface to mount a sink and
dissipating when there is only a modest temp differential is not as
effective. Water cooling the inductor would be new.
I'd sure love to take it apart! I'm wondering if they don't have a
major breakthrough on inductors in there. Compared to batteries,
capacitors, and semiconductors, inductors have seen no earth-shattering
changes outside of superconductors and other exotic situations. We
pretty much have the same order of magnitude of performance in core
options for the last, what, 15-20 years? So seeing that kind of power
density combined with efficiency in that kind of small package has me
fascinated. But if somebody did with inductors what Maxwell did with
their ultracaps, I would think I'd have seen it in a press release and
the mfg would be hawking them directly from their website like Maxwell.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
This is not China and BRUSA normally deliver more than conservative
advertisement - been proven. For instance my 3.3KW rated NLG513-WA
charger delivers 3.6kW - almost 10% more. For any decent company not to
meet published spec is unthinkable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Rich Rudman wrote:
Madman's added E-meter rules" NEVER remove the battery negative from
the shunt. The E-meter power negative... and the shunt negative are
always >hooked up. don't breaker or fuse these lines.
I've been working on my Jeep's wiring today, and I'm almost ready to
power up my E-meter for the first time. However, I'm trying to be extra
careful so I don't fry the E-meter.
Some drawings of my current HV wiring are here:
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg20pics/e2revc.png
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg20pics/e5.png
As you see I have an Anderson connector which when pulled splits my
battery pack in half. I understand that disconnecting the E-meter from
pack negative while it's other wires are connected will fry it. But what
would splitting my battery pack up while other loads are connected do?
Will I fry my E-meter if I pull the Anderson connector in my Jeep while
the meter is on?
Danny Miller wrote:
Now correct me if I'm wrong but logically if the meter is constructed
this way then disconnecting the shunt from ground, with the shunt
still connected to the battery and the e-meter and the e-meter's
still sharing that ground, this would also result in frying the
electronics if there is any load still connected from the ground to
the positive side of the battery.
I don't understand what you're saying. Are you referring to battery
negative as "ground" (in which case you'd be saying to disconnect the
shunt from battery negative while leaving the shunt connected to battery
negative?
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That little diode on the main contactor comes sealed
in plastic. I noticed after starting in reverse gear
and blowing two fuses, that the plastic has worn off.
The controller mounting plate is in quite close
proximity to the main contactor. Since it has been
removed 3 times, it makes sense that between the wear
on the plastic, and the movement that the transmission
does naturally on its mounts could either make
complete contact or, come close enough that there is
arcing, which blows the fuse.
Easy fix; cram a long screwdriver between the two,
give it a 45 deg. turn such that the diode lays
flatter to the M.C. There is now 1/4" or better
clearance, when before there was perhaps 1/16" to
1/8".
Now to put some incident-free miles on the car and
prove it...
The science teacher in me wants to know how far 12V
can arc, and what the dielectric is of the plastic
that was there; ie, is it worth covering up the leads
of the diode...
TTYL,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
The science teacher in me wants to know how far 12V
can arc,
Precisely 0.012mm in open air (to initiate the arc).
Once it is sustained, it is hard to say - may be
several cm.
and what the dielectric is of the plastic
that was there; ie, is it worth covering up the leads
of the diode...
Always worth - in case you drop any metal object on it,
you won't short out anything.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-08-08, Chris Tromley wrote:
>
> Cedric is a very inventive guy. While his ebike is rather cobby looking, it
> is undeniably quite an elegant vehicle. I was particularly interested in
> the caption for the second-to-last photo, "... twisting the throttle in the
> reverse direction gives regeneration."
>
> This is an idea I had as well. It wasn't like a lightning bolt of
> creativity or anything. It seems such a perfectly natural thing to do with
> an electric drive system and should be very easy to implement. I even
> suggested it on this list for use with an accelerator pedal on an electric
> car. So I was very peeved when I saw Vectrix making a big freakin' deal
> about their patent for it, insisting only they can use it.
Ummm. It's so obvious I didn't even mention it in my initial
post to this list ... I'd just assumed that that was how regen
controllers operated!
It's particularly obvious if you've ever ridden a four-stroke
motorcycle, especially a single or a twin: when you close the
throttle, pumping losses in the engine cause enough resistance
to lock up the rear wheel. Some race bikes have a special one-way
"slipper" clutch to prevent this happening.
-----sharks
--
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://zoic.org/sharkey/>
"A thing should be as simple as it is and no simpler." -- Albert Einstein
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I just finished updating the Riker site with all the TH!NK City
information.
http://www.rikerelectricvehicles.com
Now I don't collaborate with TH!NK Nordic, I'm just the web messenger.
So I don't know much more then what I just put up.
See ya,
Chip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, I can't get the archives to come up. I get object not found at
http://www.crest.org/ev-list-archive Since that is the case I will just
continue to post and hope that you will bear with me. In other groups that
I have been in it was expected that newbies announce their presence and
introduce themselves. I assume then that this is also true here.
My name is Brad Jensen and I am the proud new owner of 3 1998 Ford Ranger
Evs. I have also started a collection of other electric motors and batteries
to create other types of smaller vehicles. I mentioned I am a new owner,
and I am a bit overwhelmed as I know little about EVs or electronics,
although I do have a background in technology in other areas. I am just
picking up the EVs this week. The batteries are down (of course) so I have
to figure out how to get them running again or replace them. I am
interested in using more reliable batteries such as those in the hybrids.
Has anyone done a battery transplant from a hybrid? I can imagine that they
are more complicated than they look. The seem to be selling on e-bay for
about $500.
I am a tinkerer/inventor with no formal training, but with lots of
enthusiasm and good ideas. I am also probably the best bargain hunter that
you will ever meet.
I got interested in EVs for the usual reasons - gas prices, environmental
protection, don't want to be dependent on Texas oilmen or Saudi Sheiks, No
blood for oil etc. etc.
Before I bought the Rangers (couldn't pass that opportunity up) I was
interested in trying to build the cheapest and easiest EV possible. I was
collecting common components from forklifts and even treadmills and surplus
batteries from electric scooters and the like. Now that I have the Rangers,
I won't be focusing on that as much - but I will be tinkering still.
Another project I am interested in is building a grease car pusher trailer
for my Ranger. I was thinking of using the back end of a diesel vanagon.
Anyone have any tips? Vanagons are hard to find here in Michigan.
I look forward to hearing from all of you and hope you will let me tap into
your knowledge as well as providing an idea or two of my own...
-- Brad Jensen
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.0/63 - Release Date: 8/3/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-08-08, Brad Jensen wrote:
> Ok, I can't get the archives to come up. I get object not found at
> http://www.crest.org/ev-list-archive
They seem to have moved: try
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Brad!
I'm currently looking at Prius batteries for use in EV's. They do put
out a lot of power over time (50+ah for a 6.5ah battery) however the
trick is in charging them.
I'm working with the TI BQ2003/2004 series chips coupled to N-FET based
switching chargers modulated by the BQ control chips. I can get them to
charge at 3 amps (c/2) rate without much problem, but when I step the
rate up to 8 amps (bit over C), things go bad with the BQ2003 series
chip. Apparently it can't detect the delta voltage saddle drop quickly
enough and these batteries will rupture before the temp probe (located
in the well of the cell) registers the delta temp change that says "I'm
charged". Instead it overshot and went blam.
Toyota gets around this I think by watching the charge and not allowing
them past 80%. Which makes sense; they can do a low current pack
calibration every month or so at 2a and watch for the dv/dt drop then
pull out 20% of the pack before engaging regen (which can put 100-150
amps back into the pack). If they did that on an 80% full pack, the word
rupture would take on new meanings.
Ah well, back to the drawing board.
Next step is to try rebuilding the charger with the slightly smarter
(peak voltage detection based) BQ2004 charger. However this is only an
18 cell system; I'm working up to a 30 cell (5 batteries in series)
system as the absolute minimum for usability. Consider that you need a
250 cell system (300 volts) as a replacement for your truck's pack.
My test platform will be my Elec-trak E20; a 36 volt tractor that can
cruise at 70amps and pull a peak of 200+ amps up a hill with the deck
on. Possibly more with the tiller. Which is actually kind of like the
Prizm with a 300 volt base pack (also pulls 60amps cruise, 220 peak)
By comparison the BQ2003 is *great* with flooded NiCDs. Charging at
10amp rate led to a nice perfect charge pretty much every time as
measured by my E-meter (18 cells in series). Probably because the
flooded cells are dumb as toast and exhibit the dv/dt saddle in a rather
obvious to the chip sort of way.
I'm thinking of doing a pair of chargers like this on the Elec-trak; Two
isolated 18 cell chargers to remove the possibility of battery imbalance
due to the fore and aft lifts tapping the pack and the aft tap for the
chainsaw. Charging at a peak of 10 amps should bring the pack (2
parallel strings) to full charge within 8 hours.
Chris
Brad Jensen wrote:
Ok, I can't get the archives to come up. I get object not found at
http://www.crest.org/ev-list-archive Since that is the case I will just
continue to post and hope that you will bear with me. In other groups that
I have been in it was expected that newbies announce their presence and
introduce themselves. I assume then that this is also true here.
My name is Brad Jensen and I am the proud new owner of 3 1998 Ford Ranger
Evs. I have also started a collection of other electric motors and batteries
to create other types of smaller vehicles. I mentioned I am a new owner,
and I am a bit overwhelmed as I know little about EVs or electronics,
although I do have a background in technology in other areas. I am just
picking up the EVs this week. The batteries are down (of course) so I have
to figure out how to get them running again or replace them. I am
interested in using more reliable batteries such as those in the hybrids.
Has anyone done a battery transplant from a hybrid? I can imagine that they
are more complicated than they look. The seem to be selling on e-bay for
about $500.
I am a tinkerer/inventor with no formal training, but with lots of
enthusiasm and good ideas. I am also probably the best bargain hunter that
you will ever meet.
I got interested in EVs for the usual reasons - gas prices, environmental
protection, don't want to be dependent on Texas oilmen or Saudi Sheiks, No
blood for oil etc. etc.
Before I bought the Rangers (couldn't pass that opportunity up) I was
interested in trying to build the cheapest and easiest EV possible. I was
collecting common components from forklifts and even treadmills and surplus
batteries from electric scooters and the like. Now that I have the Rangers,
I won't be focusing on that as much - but I will be tinkering still.
Another project I am interested in is building a grease car pusher trailer
for my Ranger. I was thinking of using the back end of a diesel vanagon.
Anyone have any tips? Vanagons are hard to find here in Michigan.
I look forward to hearing from all of you and hope you will let me tap into
your knowledge as well as providing an idea or two of my own...
-- Brad Jensen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all. Allow me to introduce myself.
My name is Chip Sandy. I am not yet the owner of any EV's, but consistenly
rising gas prices (with no end in site to the increases) as well as mounting
pollution problems and fossil fuel depletion looming large on the horizon, I
feel the need to start determining the feasability of an EV. I have been
researching them for a few weeks now, and I am unfortunatly facing some
confusion with the terminology, and what determines the balance between range &
power, or lack thereof. Is there a good resource on the net that I could study
to better learn some of the terms and, more importantly, how I can use them to
determine my needs?
As stated above, I am doing some research into EV's mainly because I am trying
to determine the feasability (for me personally) of owning one over a gas car.
I live in NJ were the climate varies greatly throughout the year and am
concerned with such issues as driving in snow as well as high heat & humidity.
My other main concern is keeping up with relatively fast paced traffic, as I
live in an area were you're likely to get run off the road at speeds lower than
70 MPH. If I were to go the EV route, I would need something that could
accelerate quickly (preferrably 0-60 in 7-8 seconds) and be able to hit a top
speed of 75-80 MPH. It would also have to make my 13 mile (one way) daily
commute with some power to spare for lunch breaks and running errands after
work. I mostly stay local, but every now and then make a trip to my hometown
which is about 50 miles away, While I would more than likely keep my current
gas car for these trips, I'd like to know if it's possible for an EV !
to make t
y requirements feasable, or am I asking to much from my desired EV? As this
list seems to be the best collection of real knowledge that I've come across, I
was hoping to "pick some brains" and hopefully end my confusion. I thank you
all (in advance) for your tollorance, and hope to hear back soon.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "Conversion" in this case.
If the Gen2 Prius has EV abilities out of the box and simply needs
additional batteries and a grid charger to become an EV then doesn't
that make the Prius+ an EV Conversion? One that already has the
Motors, Controllers, and backup gas range extender built in?
L8r
Ryan
ps. The last Hack is the EV-Mode's 34 mph software limitation.
It should be capable of 45 mph easy if not 70 mph ( given plenty of time
and depending on if the controllers are robust enough ) in EV-Mode.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> No, the Prius+ project is about beefing up Prius' battery and making it
> a plug-in hybrid thus extending EV only range. All original guts
> ate still there, and work as before.
>
> Victor
>
> Brad Jensen wrote:
>
>> Hi I am a newbie. I can't get the archives to show up (mozilla
>> issue?) so
>> excuse me if I repeat. I am just going to jump right in.
>> If you have a Prius to convert to all electric, isn't that what the
>> Prius+
>> project is all about? (http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html) Plus there
>> are lot of Prius engines that I have seen come up on E-bay. They are
>> going
>> for fairly cheap. I just saw a whole 2003 drive train go for a little
>> more
>> than $600
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Toyota-Prius-Hybrid-Drive-Train_W0QQcmdZ
>> ViewItemQQcategoryZ6783QQitemZ7990291267QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
>> -- Brad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hays wrote:
> I'm on the mechanical brakes all the rest of the way.
Does your transmission have any settings besides park, neutral,
reverse, and drive?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Again, please read carefully, copying the paragraph:
> No, the Prius+ project is about beefing up Prius' battery and making it
> a plug-in hybrid thus extending EV only range. All original guts
> ate still there, and work as before.
>
> Victor
Did I mention word "conversion"? Prius+ is not a conversion,
it is beefing up existing battery and adding a charger making it
plug-in capable.
Victor
Lightning Ryan wrote:
I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "Conversion" in this case.
If the Gen2 Prius has EV abilities out of the box and simply needs
additional batteries and a grid charger to become an EV then doesn't
that make the Prius+ an EV Conversion? One that already has the
Motors, Controllers, and backup gas range extender built in?
L8r
Ryan
ps. The last Hack is the EV-Mode's 34 mph software limitation.
It should be capable of 45 mph easy if not 70 mph ( given plenty of time
and depending on if the controllers are robust enough ) in EV-Mode.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
No, the Prius+ project is about beefing up Prius' battery and making it
a plug-in hybrid thus extending EV only range. All original guts
ate still there, and work as before.
Victor
Brad Jensen wrote:
Hi I am a newbie. I can't get the archives to show up (mozilla
issue?) so
excuse me if I repeat. I am just going to jump right in.
If you have a Prius to convert to all electric, isn't that what the
Prius+
project is all about? (http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html) Plus there
are lot of Prius engines that I have seen come up on E-bay. They are
going
for fairly cheap. I just saw a whole 2003 drive train go for a little
more
than $600
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Toyota-Prius-Hybrid-Drive-Train_W0QQcmdZ
ViewItemQQcategoryZ6783QQitemZ7990291267QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
-- Brad
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Chip Sandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If I were to go the EV route, I would need something that could accelerate
quickly (preferrably 0-60 in 7-8 >seconds) and be able to hit a top speed
of 75-80 MPH.
Why do you "need" a 0-60 time of 7-8 seconds? I have actually met people
who voluntarily drive cars with 0-60 times of ( gasp!!) 12 seconds or more,
and they can keep up with traffic and enter highways safely.
One reason for this odd choice in vehicles is that such cars, in general,
use less fossil fuel and produce less pollution.
In an EV, range and performance don't generally go hand in hand. If you
insist on that much performance (and especially if you use it on a regular
basis) you will be making the conversion much more difficult and expensive.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "Conversion" in this case.
....
> doesn't that make the Prius+ an EV Conversion?
It would be an EV if the gas motor was removed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting Chip, thanks
I've updated my list o'links `cause my prev.entry was dated, as:
"Rikers first Smart Car EV will be arriving in the Summer/Fall of of
2005. Cost will be $25,000 to $30,000US."
... just something I musta cut and paste from somewhere, sometime.
My bro drives an ICE Smart in Victoria BC. Sorry it seems Riker only
covers parts of N.A. <smile>
Will the TH!NK Nordic relieve Smart waiting lists, d'ya think?
Just curious thanks
lOck
Toronto Harbour
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I just finished updating the Riker site with all the TH!NK City
> information.
> http://www.rikerelectricvehicles.com
> Now I don't collaborate with TH!NK Nordic, I'm just the web
> messenger.
> So I don't know much more then what I just put up.
> See ya,
> Chip
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Prius Conversion?
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:35:35 -0700
On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 01:11:08PM -0400, Philip Marino wrote:
<..snip..>
> My Echo was down to 1575 lbs with all ICE equipment removed, so I would
> guess a stripped Prius would be about 1700 or so.
You've done an Echo conversion? Did it work out?
Did the Echo have electric power steering?
Do you have pictures?
Thnks!
The conversion is going well, but not on the road yet. it's taken more time
than I expected - mostly to figure out the best (or, at least a good) way
to do things. But, I'm not in a rush - I enjoy working on it.
I'm also building my own charger - automated, isolated, temperature
compensated, two stage (constant current + constant voltage ) with an
equalization mode. It's big and heavy, though, so it'll stay in the garage.
I also own an ICE Echo, so, by doing the conversion, I've become very
familiar with the Echo, and it should be easy to do any repair on the ICE
car if it ever needs it. ( Not likely anyway, since it's a Toyota)
The motor is now in place ( with a homemade adapter) and I've driven it up
and down the driveway with a single 12 volt battery. Eveything seems fine
so far. The motor installation was pretty straightforward.
I made a conventional taper-lock type adapter, and I'm using the original
manual tranny with clutch.
Two of the motor mounts were on the tranny, so all I had to do was make an
adapter for the third mount ( right hand side) that fits on the end of the
motor ( ADC 8) and attaches to the original engine mount.
I'm working on the battery boxes now - 14 8VGC batteries total: 5 underhood,
and 9 in a box sunk into the trunk floor. They'll be insulated and heated (
only when plugged in to the charger) The underhood area is very small, so
fitting in even 5 batteries is a challenge ( with an inch of insulation on
all sides)
The car originally had conventional engine-driven-pump power steering.
I've converted mine to manual - just added a fluid reservoir to keep the
rack lubricated. Since the car is small and the tires will be at a high
pressure, I'm sure the increased steering effort won't be a problem. A local
junkyard could get me a used manual rack for $200, but I won't bother unless
it's a problem.
I've taken LOTS of pictures along the way. Someday I'll put together a web
site. When I do, I'll post the URL on this loop.
If there's a particular picture anyone wants to see, let me know. I can put
it up and send the URL.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I was listening to a podcast last week from EVWorld.com about a
company called EnergyCS that is hoping to mass market a conversion
system to make Prius a plug-in Hybrid. I'm wondering if they may have
some info on making a Prius electric only? There website is
http://www.energycs.com/Edrive-FAQ.html this is the FAQ specifically
for the plug-in conversion Edrive system.
Stefano
On 8/8/05, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lightning Ryan wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "Conversion" in this case.
> ....
> > doesn't that make the Prius+ an EV Conversion?
>
> It would be an EV if the gas motor was removed.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe place the cells into a refridgerator or freezer for a short amount of
time before soldering the cells to reduce the chance of venting?
Duncan Orthner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello all,
I have a chance to aquire some nicad cells (new) but they've
been built into somewhat odd ball pack configurations. I'd like to
rearrange them into something more space efficient for a scooter. I realize
the tabs are usually done using a spot welder. . . I've soldered tabs
directly to cells before - but not on this scale. Is there any reason it's
not a good idea to solder the tabs on? I'm very good at hand soldering - I
do it quickly and use a very powerful iron - I've never damaged
a cell this way.
All input appreciated, Duncan
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Actually, though I've never heard of that, it makes perfect sense.
Heat damage does not normally result in venting. I heard it described
that there were plastic components right underneath that cap, I believe
it's part of the vent. Perhaps the vent would leak eventually. But not
as a direct result of the heat damage of soldering. The next charging
cycle would probably be where the pressure could build up and cause that
problem.
Danny
john bart wrote:
Maybe place the cells into a refridgerator or freezer for a short amount of
time before soldering the cells to reduce the chance of venting?
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I am confused, Victor said that the Prius plus consists of more batteries
and a charger, yet Chris said in another thread that the charging of Prius
batteries is the problem in trying to transplant the Prius batteries to
other vehicles. Couldn't you use the Prius plus charger and the Prius
batteries in another vehicle or is it more complicated than that (I suspect
it is since the Prius seems to be one complex piece of machinery).
What about the other hybrids? (Civic, Escape) Are their batteries equally
problematic? I would much rather buy something standard from the junkyard
if possible.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Prius Conversion?
Again, please read carefully, copying the paragraph:
> No, the Prius+ project is about beefing up Prius' battery and making it
> a plug-in hybrid thus extending EV only range. All original guts
> ate still there, and work as before.
>
> Victor
Did I mention word "conversion"? Prius+ is not a conversion,
it is beefing up existing battery and adding a charger making it
plug-in capable.
Victor
Lightning Ryan wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "Conversion" in this case.
>
> If the Gen2 Prius has EV abilities out of the box and simply needs
> additional batteries and a grid charger to become an EV then doesn't
> that make the Prius+ an EV Conversion? One that already has the
> Motors, Controllers, and backup gas range extender built in?
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
> ps. The last Hack is the EV-Mode's 34 mph software limitation.
> It should be capable of 45 mph easy if not 70 mph ( given plenty of time
> and depending on if the controllers are robust enough ) in EV-Mode.
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
>>No, the Prius+ project is about beefing up Prius' battery and making it
>>a plug-in hybrid thus extending EV only range. All original guts
>>ate still there, and work as before.
>>
>>Victor
>>
>>Brad Jensen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi I am a newbie. I can't get the archives to show up (mozilla
>>>issue?) so
>>>excuse me if I repeat. I am just going to jump right in.
>>>If you have a Prius to convert to all electric, isn't that what the
>>>Prius+
>>>project is all about? (http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html) Plus there
>>>are lot of Prius engines that I have seen come up on E-bay. They are
>>>going
>>>for fairly cheap. I just saw a whole 2003 drive train go for a little
>>>more
>>>than $600
>>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Toyota-Prius-Hybrid-Drive-Train_W0QQc
mdZ
>>>ViewItemQQcategoryZ6783QQitemZ7990291267QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
>>>-- Brad
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Funny that "efficient reservoirs" should come up... and a thread about
blowing off "excess" regen here somewhere too?
I expect to dump charge my personal electric vehicles from a
wind/solar/shorepower pack, but what if the boat pack is charged and
the wind gen happens to be "crankin'" anyway? or solar panels "baking"
away?
Question is: How much of a water tower (height/volume/?) would be
needed to store some useable excess wind or solar energy as a
"battery", with the release of stored water spinning the pump as a
generator, as desired?
I'm not even sure this is the right question. Just that water towers
came up in a conversation the other day...
Any links to sites that take this approach to storing ... ummmmm
electric(?) energy? Are water towers efficient as storage batteries
for energy? Is battery the right word?
Any off-list replies would be appreciated!
Tks
loCk
Toronto
ps... no, any water tower would not be on the boat <grin> Just onshore
beside her slip.
> Danny Miller wrote:
> >The allure
> > of being able to store power in a 99% efficient reservoir
> > is quite powerful though.
> > Danny
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List Members
Thanks for the tips, links and info but.
I'm still missing the point as to why the two packs just can't be in
parallel. I appreciate the caps will have to be charged first until they
are at same voltage as li-ion pack to avoid a massive initial surge, but
then they can be put into parallel with batteries and simply mirror each
other.
Why not?
Advantages? Disadvantages?
My 200ah TS cells could take a fair bit of regen depending on SOC and temp I
imagine Say (100A as a guesstimate) etc
Thanks
Peter
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Lifting one pound of mass up one foot stores 1.356 joules of energy. A
joule is equal to one watt for one second. Lifting 1000 gal 100 ft in
the air stores around 300 W-hrs. At least I think that's right.
You'd probably use a turbine to get power out of it. Piston might work
too but I'm picturing the hydraulic flow around the valves as being way
too restrictive for efficient or speedy output.
Danny
Lock Hughes wrote:
Funny that "efficient reservoirs" should come up... and a thread about
blowing off "excess" regen here somewhere too?
I expect to dump charge my personal electric vehicles from a
wind/solar/shorepower pack, but what if the boat pack is charged and
the wind gen happens to be "crankin'" anyway? or solar panels "baking"
away?
Question is: How much of a water tower (height/volume/?) would be
needed to store some useable excess wind or solar energy as a
"battery", with the release of stored water spinning the pump as a
generator, as desired?
I'm not even sure this is the right question. Just that water towers
came up in a conversation the other day...
Any links to sites that take this approach to storing ... ummmmm
electric(?) energy? Are water towers efficient as storage batteries
for energy? Is battery the right word?
Any off-list replies would be appreciated!
Tks
loCk
Toronto
ps... no, any water tower would not be on the boat <grin> Just onshore
beside her slip.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:18:59 -0400 (EDT), Lock Hughes
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Question is: How much of a water tower (height/volume/?) would be
>needed to store some useable excess wind or solar energy as a
>"battery", with the release of stored water spinning the pump as a
>generator, as desired?
Probably not all that much, depending on how much generating capacity
you have. One thing you can do is figure out how many HP-equivalents
you have available and then look up the pumping capacity of electric
pumps of that HP rating. Multiply the gpm at whatever head you choose
X the number of hours of generating time to get the total gallonage
required.
Obviously, you'll want to take advantage of natural altitude if you
have it available. Putting a surface mounted tank on top of a hill is
much cheaper than building a tower of the same height.
Pumped storage isn't very efficient. It works best when the marginal
cost of electricity is nil, such as from a nuclear plant or large
solar or wind arrays, so that much of it can be thrown away in the
inefficiencies. You probably wouldn't recover enough power to be
useable from just a few HP of generating capacity.
You might want to google for "pumped storage" or "Racoon Mountain
Pumped Storage". Racoon Mountain is TVA's pumped storage facility
that is designed to absorb the output of the three nearby nuclear
plants at night and supply peaking power in the day. It is supposed
to have the most elevation of any storage site in the US and used to
be the largest. As a heavy equipment operator I ran a pan (excavator)
during the construction of that project in the early 70s. As an
engineer on a locomotive, I also had the dubious distinction of
derailing a car carrying one of the turbine wheels :-)
Here's TVA's link:
http://www.tva.gov/heritage/mountaintop/
You might try dropping TVA's public information office a query asking
for some technical information on the project.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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OK, say you've got a 144v pack. It is at 150v unloaded and when you put
a heavy amp load on it voltage drops to 135v.
Now add a 100F ultracap bank in parallel to the design. 100F means the
voltage will drop 1v for every 100 amp-seconds drawn from it. You have
it charged to 150v along with the pack. It will then provide 1500
amp-seconds before it is equal to the battery voltage under load and all
further energy comes from the battery.
For an expensive and enormous 100F bank, this is not very good
utilization. At 150v the cap contains 1125KJ, but we are using only
214KJ of its power. On the other hand, if we can drain it separate from
the battery and suck it down to 75v when the motor only needs to run
slowly, we get 844KJ out of it. Close to ten times the energy! If that
is a 200v 100F cap bank and we decouple the regen from the battery so
the motor can charge it to 200v, we get 1719KJ from 200v to 75v. Of
course this would depend on the voltage rating of the pack but I hope
this illustrates the principle.
There are other factors making the battery in parallel with ultracap
less effective than outlined above. The 144v pack rather than the cap
will deliver a large portion of the current before it reaches 135v.
Basically muscling its way past the cap to supply the power as the cap
voltage fades. The battery may end up supplying half or more of the
current to get it accelerated. Then say you're running with the pack
voltage at 140v under load and you brake. The voltage will start to
rise and charge the caps but soon the battery will clamp the voltage
even lower and much of the current goes into the battery. This power
will be subject to the poor cycle efficiency of batteries. The exact
behavior depends on type of battery and charge state, but even without
simulations I guess you would not realize even half the current capacity
from the cap that I initially calculated.
And we need to store a lot of energy. This serves 3 purposes. We
prevent having to dump regen power too quickly into chemical cells to
get a safe and efficient charge rate. We avoid having to provide large
acceleration from the battery current IF the cap is charged- drawing
high currents off the battery limits ultimate energy capacity both by
Peukert's and the depressed voltage from a heavily loaded battery. And
the main point I was seeing is simply because the cap storage is
extremely efficient in the total charge/discharge cycle used for regen
whereas chemical charge/discharge are not. The way I see it, you would
not want to store any regen back in the battery if it can be put in the
cap. Any quantity of energy going in and out of there is subject to
efficiency tax. Of course motor and motor-as-a-generation inefficiency
still exist.
Li-ion is pretty efficient though. I'd already speculated before that a
Li-Ion bank might be coupled with a lead acid/ni-cd/ni-mh so the Li-Ion
charged and discharged first to handle the regen process with the high
cycle efficiency of Li-Ion whereas the other type is used for primary
storage. Since it was changed at home the inefficiency of the battery
cycle will not affect its range, which is only a function of its
discharge characteristics in a situation where regen is not being passed
through them.
Danny
Peter Perkins wrote:
List Members
Thanks for the tips, links and info but.
I'm still missing the point as to why the two packs just can't be in
parallel. I appreciate the caps will have to be charged first until they
are at same voltage as li-ion pack to avoid a massive initial surge, but
then they can be put into parallel with batteries and simply mirror each
other.
Thanks
Peter
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