EV Digest 4590
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Review My Plans?
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: open source-ness of Solectria E10?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Putting breaker under the radio
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Plasmaboy Racing Video Fix
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EAA and Publicity
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Review plans - keep it simple
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Review My Plans?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Review My Plans?
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re: Alternative
batteries
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by "Catherine C. Burgard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Review My Plans?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Time for new batteries soon
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Review My Plans?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EAA and Publicity
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Review my plans
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Did YOU HEAR - SOV's in the HOV if they are Hi-Milage Hybrids ?
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Help me decide!
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Can someone provide more info on 6v vs 8v vs 12v? The 8v seem perfect
for a 312v, 100ah pack. Cheap, around a ton, yeah. Is there something
that competes with them for price?
-Sam Harper
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
At 06:22 PM 8/17/2005, Sam Harper wrote:
Make the battery boxes as big as possible, to allow various
configurations.
Yeah. I'm looking at 8v US Battery HC units. Hopefully make a 312v,
105ah pack. I wish I could calculate a possible range figure.
Personally, I'd stay away from the 8V batteries, as I've gotten the
impression from this list that they have lifespan problems in an EV.
You could try http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I've posted before today, we DO NOT need personal attacks here. Jerry,
please go back and read that post.
Refute point for point, that's fine; we all learn from a spirited discussion
where the arguments are cogently presented. Belay the personal comments
like "you don't know what you are talking about" and "you are jealous that
someone on much less money can build, sell an EV with a good profit."
Nobody has any right to speculate in public on another list member's
knowledge or motivations.
Victor's goals and Jerry's are very different. Both provide information
that's useful to others building their own conversions. Both are valuable
members of this list and neither one deserves any kind of abuse.
No personal attacks, and no defending them; I will not listen to excuses. I
don't want to start swinging a [virtual] axe, but I will, if that's what it
takes to keep this operation civil.
Blast it, gang, THINK before you hit "send"! Then edit out everything but
dispassionate statements of fact.
Now back to your regularly scheduled EV discussion.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm going to put in my nickel also on this one.
I just purchased 2 E-10s. I've never owned an electric vehicle before.
Mine came originally wired for 3 packs of Hawkers but had been bastardized
into just 1 pack of 12 Hawkers. I've successfully rewired it for 2 packs of
12 Dominators. I bought a test set of 12 Exide batteries just because I'm
not ready for the Dominators and wired it for those. I've been able to swap
chargers and controllers in the vehicles with no problems. Both of them
also came with Magnachargers in them. It is kind of a waste for me because I
live in Tennessee and I don't quite have the range to the nearest charge
station... :-) Anyway, because the systems are all isolated from each
other, I was able to remove the whole Magnacharger system from one of them
in about 6 hours of wire chasing and it didn't effect the base E-10 design a
bit. From the newby point of view, I've learned a tremendous amount in a
very short time about EVs because of the purchase of an EV that was built
the way they should be. It is a very professionally developed vehicle done
in a manner that even a novice can tinker with and not kill something. I
should also add this.... There are a few very helpful people out there that
have been invaluable to me in my quest. Tom, Dave, and Victor. You guys
rock!! Thanks.
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: open source-ness of Solectria E10?
I'll just echo what David said. This truck is an outstanding
conversion, very professionally done.
The only gotcha is that they didn't make a lot of them and they vary a
lot. Mine, for example, had a single Brusa NLG412 (3.3KW) charger and
three strings of Hawkers originally, and Brusa motor controllers.
Others had three separate (1KW) chargers, one for each string. Still
others had Magnechargers! Others had Solectria's own motor
controllers. When I got mine, they had replaced the three strings of
Hawkers with two Deka Dominator strings. I just heard from a guy today
who has one with one string of 23 group 27 batteries for a 276-volt setup!
I guess this only goes to show how versatile and flexible the truck is.
All the systems are separate -- You could trash the controllers and AC
motors and put in a DC drive system. Or dump the charger and put in one
of the PFC units.
All I can say is, this is the finest conversion I have ever seen.
Rugged and well thought out, with an incredible attention to detail. No
chunks of plywood held together with duct tape here!
-Tom
Jim Coate wrote:
> How would folks rate the Solectria E10 pickup truck in terms of being
> "open source"? Are replacement batteries available on the open market?
> Can a mere mortal do trouble shooting (or at least someone equipped
> with a laptop and basic terminal software)? Can one system be replaced
> without upsetting the rest? Can additional chargers be added without
> it loosing track of capacity?
>
> TIA.
> Jim
>
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course Victor, I've had three SUV's and understand the culture.
However, I woke up and smelled the dirty air, drank the dirty water, and
got burned by the expanding ozone holes.
Consumer demand for SUV's are one of the reasons why our gas mileage in
the US averages a flat lined 21 mpg. It's one of the reasons why the US
imports almost 60% of our Oil and uses 25% of the rapidly reducing
global supply. Bloated oil consumption feeds the massive oil companies
(Exxon record 11B profit 1/4 05) that influences public policy at all
levels to refute Global Warming, fight successive wars for the remaining
oil (Iran oil is next), crush EV's and fund terrorists.
I don't like it that "it's cool" for single people and two person
families who have no need for a Tahoe, Expedition or Hummer to feel the
need to drive one around.
I live in this country and on this planet and when I make fun of SUV
drivers it's one way of expressing my anger at the US consumption
culture that is ruining this planet.
America needs to wake up before it's too late.
My two cents.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:18 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
>
> This is a matter of taste, there is no "right" or "wrong" here.
> Different people likes different cars, just like different
> colors of cars.
>
> Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> > Make it Big, make it Sexy, make it an EV and put in a
> loudspeaker to
> > make it rumble!
>
> The way you described, I probably won't want to sit in it, EV
> or not. But I'm sure it will appeal to some.
>
> It's like wonderful Tango - really outstanding (spec wise)
> vehicle which I won't consider having even for free because
> it is butt ugly looking (to me). The fact that it may one day
> do 0-60 in less than one second or its stereo's power blows
> out owner's and passengers' brails is totally irrelevant - if
> I don't drive it, why do I care?
>
> But many get a kick out of it, and there is nothing wrong
> with this - just a matter of taste.
>
> I wish Rick and Jerry luck - the more EVs on the road - the
> better off we all are.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
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--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence, I really don't think that putting a breaker with the HV wiring in
the passenger compartment is a bad idea - might be if you had 250+ volts,
but not very many conversions are going to go that high.
I have mine mounted just under the dash in the center, and I don't think
that it is a serious hazard at all - I'm just an electrical contractor, what
do I know, right?
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Putting breaker under the radio
> Gravity be damned I'm going to mount the Breaker somhow either above or
> below the floor of my car. Locations that it will fit: On or under the
> hump in the back seat feet area. On the floor
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/418f.jpg you can see to lines of white
next
> to the stick shift. That installation did have the wires comming up for
> about an inch in four places. Next to that under the shifter but in the
> hump and protected from scraping. I would have to construct a box to
> protect it from splash. What do you guys think? Lawrence Rhodes......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Putting breaker under the radio
>
>
> > On 17 Aug 2005 at 14:49, David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
> >
> >> I mounted my breaker on the control board under the hood ...
> >
> > The problem with that is that it exposes the breaker to road spray and
> > dirt,
> > unless it's encased in a box or something. I'm concerned about this.
> > Also,
> > what if the cable breaks in an emergency?
> >
> > I like to mount the main breaker under the seat and bring the hv wiring
up
> > through the floorpan. That's not really a good strategy because it
still
> > puts the hv wiring inside the passenger compartment, even if it's just a
> > couple of feet.
> >
> > I don't have a good answer for this, but I definitely don't like under
the
> > hood and I'm uneasy about mechanical cable connections. Other thoughts?
> > Anybody?
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Assistant Administrator
> >
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> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Thanks to a few personal emails, I was made aware that the Zombie vs
Mustang video did not work.
I've corrected the problem, so for those who had tried to download that
video entitled '/White Zombie 12.99 @ 101 mph ('04)', /it nows works as
it should. It's a pretty large file at 124.8 MB.
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
<http://www.plasmaboyracing.com>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of Publicity, Did every one CATCH my post (re-post) from that
NW Cable News gal... who was having TROUBLE getting any IN-Put on
folks converting to EVs or in the process...
THERE is a chance to get FREE publicity. Just call her !!!
Here is her "Cry for Help" once again...
Akiko Fujita wrote:
> Steve:
>
> I haven't had much luck finding anybody that is converting their cars.
>
> Can you please send out an e-mail to see if anybody's interested in
talking to us?
>
> We are looking for any changes drivers are making to existing cars to
improve fuel efficiency.
>
> Also, would you be available for an interview tomorrow morning?
>
> I'll be in touch with you...in the meantime please call me with any
questions.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Akiko Fujita
> Reporter, Northwest Cable News
> (206) 817-2517
PLEASE RESPOND TO HER DIRECTLY....
ps: I am BIG on PR here at the Seattle Chapter of the EAA. It is about
all I do in my spare time... and it pays off...But like the others have
said... " it is volunteer, and we all do what we can...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sam, and Everyone,
I'll leave it to others to comment on your conversion plans. I just
wanted to add one piece of advice. Try to keep things as simple as
possible on your first conversion.
I remember when I was about 11 years old and getting into remote
controlled airplanes. I wanted to buy a P-51 for my first plane. I was
convinced to buy a slow trainer instead. I piled it into the ground
plenty of times - can't imagine what would have happened on my first
flight with the P-51.
The point is, by starting with as simple of a plan as possible,
following the suggestions of others that have got an EV on the road, you
can get your EV on the road too. Of course, some people like having a
few-year project - nothing wrong with that.
One more thing - be realistic about your goals. I'd say either go for a
fair-range, fair performance vehicle, a fairly low-range high
performance conversion, or a great-range low-performance vehicle.
Trying to get all of everything on your first vehicle could lead to
disappointment.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 09:02:53PM -0500, Danny Miller wrote:
> What car has made an all-electric A/C? I have never heard of this. A
> LOT of electricity is required.
>
The 2004 Prius:
http://tinyurl.com/cg6au
http://tinyurl.com/8kho5
Also, while I was reading the FAQ on the Toyota site, I stumbled across this
little gem:
25. Does Toyota support the modification of my Prius to be a plug-in Hybrid
and run on electric mode only with a switch?
Any such alterations, modifications or tampering with the vehicle voids the
warranty and is likely to be counterproductive for air quality and Prius?
durability and safety.
Why is Toyota so against plug in hybrids?!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For Sanden compressors; 15,000 to 25,000 BTUs
http://www.sanden.com/support/pdf/SD7_refrig_cap_curve.pdf
John Grigg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Review My Plans?
Danfoss makes GREAT stuff! I have a couple of fridges based on their
stuff.
These are fridge compressors however, and their capacity is quite low.
Car A/C systems don't usually publish BTU/hr capacities but it's really
high, higher than most room A/C units. Danfoss was quite helpful to
list its pumping capacity- 934 Btu/hr (274 Watts), though they don't
give a differential. Since it's a fridge that might be from a room temp
condenser to a freezer evaporator, which is quite cold, you should
either get more capacity or consume less power with a warmer evaporator.
In fact, I have a Danfoss-driven icebox with the compressor and
condensor set up externally on some flexible lines. I might be able to
part with it if want to buy it to try it out. It's charged and
operational. Might make sense if you're pumping coolant into the seats
to cool the seats alone.
A/C performance depends heavily on the condenser getting the coolant as
close to outside air temp as possible and the evaporator using up all
the cold so it exits as close to room temp as possible. But only so
much improvement is possible. And more complicated elements present
flow restrictions which make the compressor work harder and it starts to
lose efficiency again.
I have a 6000 BTU room A/C installed in the back window of my camper van
for plugging in at a campground, but I also have a huge inverter and an
alternator capable of around 160 amps and a deep cycle battery so I
experimented. It takes around 60 amps @ 12vdc at first after it gets
over the starting surge. Then as the temp differential builds up, the
current crawls up over 100 amps. It's not lost in the inverter- it's
not that hot at all. A hot alternator does not have the current
capacity of a cold one either. Eventually the A/C demand and the
reduced alternator output met and it was net discharging the deep cycle
battery. It was only an attempt to assist the normal A/C in the first
place, it's not enough to really keep the van cold driving through the
sun. With a much more limited cab space 6000 BTU would be overkill.
Danny
Sam Harper wrote:
> What about using a Danfoss 12v DC compressor?
>
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_Components/compressors/Danfoss/danfo
ss.asp
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Sam Harper
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just wanted to add that this is not an attack on you Victor (I greatly
respect your posts, projects and parts) but frustration with a culture
that seems hecka-bent on destroying this planet.
I have three passions in life, my wife, helping in some small way to
save this planet before the rapidly approaching "tipping point" and
building an EV.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:03 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re:
> Alternative batteries
>
> Of course Victor, I've had three SUV's and understand the culture.
> However, I woke up and smelled the dirty air, drank the dirty
> water, and got burned by the expanding ozone holes.
>
> Consumer demand for SUV's are one of the reasons why our gas
> mileage in the US averages a flat lined 21 mpg. It's one of
> the reasons why the US imports almost 60% of our Oil and uses
> 25% of the rapidly reducing global supply. Bloated oil
> consumption feeds the massive oil companies (Exxon record 11B
> profit 1/4 05) that influences public policy at all levels to
> refute Global Warming, fight successive wars for the
> remaining oil (Iran oil is next), crush EV's and fund terrorists.
>
> I don't like it that "it's cool" for single people and two
> person families who have no need for a Tahoe, Expedition or
> Hummer to feel the need to drive one around.
>
> I live in this country and on this planet and when I make fun
> of SUV drivers it's one way of expressing my anger at the US
> consumption culture that is ruining this planet.
>
> America needs to wake up before it's too late.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Noel
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:18 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
> >
> > This is a matter of taste, there is no "right" or "wrong" here.
> > Different people likes different cars, just like different
> colors of
> > cars.
> >
> > Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> > > Make it Big, make it Sexy, make it an EV and put in a
> > loudspeaker to
> > > make it rumble!
> >
> > The way you described, I probably won't want to sit in it,
> EV or not.
> > But I'm sure it will appeal to some.
> >
> > It's like wonderful Tango - really outstanding (spec wise) vehicle
> > which I won't consider having even for free because it is butt ugly
> > looking (to me). The fact that it may one day do 0-60 in
> less than one
> > second or its stereo's power blows out owner's and
> passengers' brails
> > is totally irrelevant - if I don't drive it, why do I care?
> >
> > But many get a kick out of it, and there is nothing wrong
> with this -
> > just a matter of taste.
> >
> > I wish Rick and Jerry luck - the more EVs on the road - the
> better off
> > we all are.
> >
> > --
> > Victor
> > '91 ACRX - something different
> >
> >
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return
> e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
> distribution or use of this information by a person other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Boy, with all this testosterone flowing I don't know if a gal dare step in ;)
Our local paper the other day had a very interesting article about the Toyota
Pirus being converted to plug-in. Apparently Toyota wasn't to happy about
people messing with there design but they are keeping an open eye on it. The
conversions are getting 230mpg, in ideal situations. Talk about John Doe
wanting an EV, how about a hybrid that gets 230mpg. What a selling point, he
won't care that you have to plug it in.
I figured even at half that mileage I could commute to work everyday and fill
the car about 6 times a year with gas. At $2.79 a gallon here, that's sound go
to me! I know it's not a truuue EV but it's definitely a step in the right
direction.
Just my opinion :)
Catherine
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Aug 2005 at 22:37, Sam Harper wrote:
> Can someone provide more info on 6v vs 8v vs 12v? The 8v seem perfect
> for a 312v, 100ah pack. Cheap, around a ton, yeah.
Within the flooded battery world, 6v golf car last longer (~750 cycles), 8v
a bit less (perhaps 500-600 cycles), 12v markedly less (250-300 cycles).
Reducing current demand helps anything last longer. A high voltage EV will
normally do that, as long as you don't have your foot in it all the time.
The 8 volt golf car batteries are a reasonable compromise and offer a decent
cost per mile, especially if you are running currents under 300 amps peak.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Aug 2005 at 19:10, Roger Stockton wrote:
> 24YTs configured for a 72V system
> results in buddy-quadruplets (?) rather than buddy pairs.
Duh. I meant 12 and 18, not 24 and 36. They're TWELVE VOLT batteries.
What was I thinking? Sorry!
The computations are based on the real number, though. They apply
reasonably well, I think, in spite of the fact that I neglected sag. That
part will be left as an exercise for the reader.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Aug 2005 at 21:02, Danny Miller wrote:
> What car has made an all-electric A/C? I have never heard of this. A
> LOT of electricity is required.
The 2004/5 Toyota Prius, for one. It's an extraordinarily efficient system
and quite surprisingly sparing on energy use.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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We just had a talk about that article over the past few days.
They are quite inaccurate in saying it gets 230 mpg. It gets no more
miles per gal than the hybrid did originally. They're adding extra
electric capacity so it can run as an EV for awhile, once the batteries
are run down it continues as a hybrid. While operating as an EV it is
of course infinity mpg, but you should also factor in the cost of
electricity and remember the caveat that it has a limited range in EV power.
It's not a bad idea or anything, but the reporting leaves something to
be desired. You can't drive 1000 miles on 4 gal although that's the way
most people would read the article. Well, not unless you plan to drive
for under an hour, stop to charge for however long it takes, then drive
for another period, in which case you can pretty much get your
"infinity" mpg.
Danny
Catherine C. Burgard wrote:
Boy, with all this testosterone flowing I don't know if a gal dare step in ;)
Our local paper the other day had a very interesting article about the Toyota
Pirus being converted to plug-in. Apparently Toyota wasn't to happy about
people messing with there design but they are keeping an open eye on it. The
conversions are getting 230mpg, in ideal situations. Talk about John Doe
wanting an EV, how about a hybrid that gets 230mpg. What a selling point, he
won't care that you have to plug it in.
I figured even at half that mileage I could commute to work everyday and fill
the car about 6 times a year with gas. At $2.79 a gallon here, that's sound go
to me! I know it's not a truuue EV but it's definitely a step in the right
direction.
Just my opinion :)
Catherine
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I had a little show and tell with her this morning.
Gave here lots of Prius, Prius EV-Button, and Prius Plus information.
Took her (and the camera guy) for a ride and showed off the EV-Mode.
Unfortunently with only the button and no additional Batteries or
charger since it's not yet a Plus, there wasn't much for me to show her.
Did anyone get to show her any Real EVs? Sure hope so.
L8r
Ryan
Steven Lough wrote:
> Akiko Fujita wrote:
>
>> Steve:
>>
>> I haven't had much luck finding anybody that is converting their cars.
>>
>> Can you please send out an e-mail to see if anybody's interested in
> talking to us?
>>
>> We are looking for any changes drivers are making to existing cars to
> improve fuel efficiency.
>>
>> Also, would you be available for an interview tomorrow morning?
>>
>> I'll be in touch with you...in the meantime please call me with any
> questions.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Akiko Fujita
>> Reporter, Northwest Cable News
>> (206) 817-2517
>
>
>
> PLEASE RESPOND TO HER DIRECTLY....
>
> ps: I am BIG on PR here at the Seattle Chapter of the EAA. It is about
> all I do in my spare time... and it pays off...But like the others have
> said... " it is volunteer, and we all do what we can...
>
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Hi David, Victor and All,
Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
OK Jerry, will try one at the time.
jerry dycus wrote:
> Hi Victor and All,
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote: Sorry to say this Jerry,
> but Joe Average will never even consider driving something you're
> designing (3 wheeler).
-This is exactly what you said. You never said in this thread that it
was you, Victor ,that wouldn't sit in my EV, you said Joe Average customers
will never even consider driving something I'm designing, No? . So please keep
it correct quoting here. See below.
>
> - First why did you bring this up? I never even mentioned my EV
> project.
Syre you did, Sorry I deleted your messages, but you mention
numerous times your real efficient Freedom EV project you're
working on. Not in your last email, no.
Not in this thread. So why did you bring it up? It wasn't relivent to
the thread. I can and do talk about many more types of EV's than mine. The
Freedom EV is only the first of a line of EV's including 4wh/4pass sedan, Van/
Pickup/SUV and tilting 3wh and enclosed cabin 2 wh aero MC EV's.
> - Second, You don't know what you are talking about. My most
> enthusiastic customers
Re-read my post. I don't care about your most enthusiastic customers.
All I said *I* won't seat in a 3 wheeler, period. Not your customers.
I don't have to like it, do I?
I did reread it and you never said that. Look above for exactly
what you posted as I didn't snip any of it. Had you reread it you would have
known.
are joe and amazingly jane sixpacks!!! They love my E woody
I'd also love e-woody. To look at. As I like vintage cars.
Doesn't mean I'd want to drive one.
All the women at my bank that have seen my E woody and pics of what
the Freedom EV will be want one.
Good luck. Did I say all the women at your bank wouldn't want one?
If I want to say something, I'll say it myself.
-You sad joe average which I took to be normal people which the women
of my bank certainly are. No?
> -And it will take little effort to sell them once they know it
only costs $.01/mile for fuel with the price of gas now. Once they
get in and drive it, you won't be able to keep them from buying it!!
As I said: it is matter of taste. Assume it is ready *today*
already and you pay me to have it and drive it, I still won't.
Again you never said about you Victor, you said joe average. I know
your taste, you like to waste money on gadgets which is fine for you but most
others don't have money to waste on techno stuff that gives little value for
the dollar. And if we are to put EV's on the road without subsidies, we must
give value in EV's.
The best way to give value is thru good design for eff, lightweight,
low drag so the material, EV drive, batt pack can be reasonably priced so Joe
Average can afford it and still give excellent range, speed. acceleration..
Women at your bank will. I won't. There will be others like
women at your bank, and others like me as well.
Why do you have such a problem with that?
> All I'm hearing from your posts is make it cheap cheap and then
> cheaper than that.
>
> - Some hear what they want to hear instead of what's actually being
> said.
Next time you'll say "Cheaper" or "lower cost" I'll
quote you, to make sure *you* said it, not I hear something else, OK?
I'll underline it with ^^^^.
- By cheaper, low cost I mean good value. When you see it you think junk
it seems. So take it in context as you should.
> I use proven industral EV componants ...
I don't intend to compare here, but I also use proven industial EV
components.
- But your industrial componants cost 6-10x's as much for maybe a 20%
gain. That to me is not value, eff. So if I were you I'd wouldn't want to
compare either.
> ...that have a low cost, high reliability, value.
^^^^^^^^
You know all too well, that these three are contradicting.
Pick any two. Else there would be no reason to invent
anything else out there.
-That's your opinion as with good design, you can do very good at all 3.
Especially by using proven componants that's costs have already been brought
down, reliability up by many yrs of production. Money is not the only way to
reliability, value.
> Should I use overpriced compontants like yours so it's price would
> have to be twice as much, about $26k vs $13k for my proven EV
> componants, whole EV?
First, they are not mine, they are Siemens (and others).
I only offer to others what they make and if you don't like
the price, walk away.
You sell them so they belong to you, thus yours. No? And I and 99+% of
EV'ers have walked away. No?
About reliability - point me to a single component in your
vehicle guaranteed by manufacturer for 10 years as Siemens does.
That's where the valie is. Before calling it it overpriced, ask
those who have it if they believe investment worth it.
- For their price, they better garrentee it for 10 yrs!! Yet my
controller costs about 1/10 of yours so could have to replace it many times
before the price difference could be close to being made up. And just how long
would it take to get yours repaired? With my All-trak, you could easily afford
a spare but they also rarely need repair as made by one of the best controller
manfactures out there.
It is overpriced in your eyes Jerry because you can't afford it.
-Lets see, 10x's as much and you think I'm dumb? Why are not many
EV'ers beating a path to your door? It seems your overpriced equipment, while
very good stuff, is in little demand. Now at 2x's the price, it wouldn't be bad
but at 10 x's it's just not a good value as 99+% of EV'ers have said with their
pocketbook. No?
I have quite a few emails expressing amazement how cheap these
drives are compared to what they do.
- Some people are easy to impress but not real smart. Though for some who
have to have the best at any, even rediculess costs, then it's ok but they will
never get joe average in EV's.
> Isn't that why earlier EV's have failed by being overpriced so few
> can afford them?
I don't know, it is not technical issue. RAV4 was $42k MSRP
and about $30k after rebates, and *many* people would pay
for this *overpriced* vehicle today if it only were available.
Perhaps not you, but many.
-But that's not the true cost of a Rav4EV as it's real cost is over $100k+
probably. No? The batt pack alone cost $40k+
>
> - I get low cost, high value
^^^^^^^^
I've head that already. Please define "Value". Not value to you.
Eff, performance for the dollar is what I and most others call value.
> I believe that's the only real way we will get any EV's on the road.
Sorry, I don't share your believe. Unfortunately you make
it sound like I'm your enemy and don't want EVs on the road.
-You seem to always put down my EV in so many ways like saying joe
average would never drive one, No?
> Or do you have another way that will work?
David Roden once posted great message about conditions
at which EV acceptance will work. Supporting gov't was one
of them, right legislature I think another.
You just need a good design at a reasonable price. If done right it
needs no subsidies which is what got us such cost ineffective designs as the
EV-1, Rav4 EV, ect. I garrentee if you put an EV Factory in a state you will
get whatever legislation you want.
-I'm using
> new, high quality parts that are perfect for their purpose, why would
> I spend more?
Apparently your definition of "perfect" does not coinside with mine.
-By the numbers of those buying your parts, my style parts, my definition
of perfect is shared by many, many more people than yours, No?
> -The only thing I can figure out is you are jealous that someone on
> much less money can build, sell an EV with a good profit that will
> put yours to shame at 1/3 the price.
Thank you, this made my day! I had a good laugh at what you
"could figure out"! Let me assure you I'd never want to
be in your shoes. Much less to be jealous about anything
you do.
I though you'd get a laugh out of that ;-)) I should have put it another
way though.
> All I ever hear from
> you is spend money on stuff that does little for the extra cost. When
> you can come up with an EV that does 100 mile range at under $15k,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> you might have something to say that's worth listening to.
So you listen to only something you can afford.
I listen but rarely see cost effective stuff from you. So to me it isn't
of much interest but I like to keep track of the high priced fringe elements
as even the fringe can come up with something good sometimes.
Jerry Dycus.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
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An interesting thought using those danfos compressors.
Since an EV doesn't have the same heat sources, and most automotive Air
conditioners are made 1 to 1.5 ton (12000 - 18000 BTU) just to be able
to "catch up" when you come out to a hot car, What if we were to
insulate better, and let a very small unit run while parked or charged.
Maybe set at 85 when parked, changeing to 75 when hit car remote, and an
overall timer to keep it from draining to much if the 10 min run into
the store becomes an hour.
In fact, My first idea with peltier was to drop a solar panel between
the bike rack on my sedan and try to make a cooler for the car off of
solar, I didn't know compressors could be had so small. at 78 Watts to
168 watts + 50 more for fans...
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Yes, as heard on NPR, this PM. California has legalized Hi-Milage
Hybrids, ( that is Insights, Prius's and Civic's ) in the HOV lanes,
with or without more than ONE PERSON. ( but the New Accord hybrids, and
Higlanders, and Lexuxxxuxuxux.... do not make the CUT )
They went on to say, it is part of the new Energy Bill, that allows
states to legalize this, without jeopardizing their Fed. highway Dollars.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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I greatly appreciate everyons comments on my AC conversion plans. Now
I'm trying to weigh between that and a DC concept. If I decide I really
don't want that large of a vehicle - this seems plasuible. I'm not
really concerned about performance - just range. So here it goes:
-Small crossover-type SUV, perfect vehicle seems to be the Suzuki X-90
or Kia Sportage - something with 4WD
-Replace ICE, transmission, and differentials with an Etek motor and 2:1
gearbox on each wheel
-Each Etek controlled by its own Sevcon Millipak 4Q motor (how can I
have 1 potbox send its output to four seperate controllers? or do I
need to split one throttle cable to four seperate pot-boxes? I'd rather
the first.)
-48v system, still a PFC-20 or PFC-30 charger
-4 strings of 6 US Battery 8-volt HC batteries
Other incendiaries (heater core, AC compressor, vacuum pump,etc).
Do you see any major flaws in this concept? This seems more do-able for
me financially, and it seems like it might be more fun (DC system,
smaller vehicle, better aerodynamics).
I look forward to your responses, and I hope I get as many as the previous!
Sincerely,
Sam Harper
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Michaela,
I've personally contacted Valence a couple of times. Their cost is
currently outrageous! However, there seems to be a brighter side to that
price. They are currently (at least a month or so ago) building or
developing production in China to reduce the cost substantially. While it
will still be in the ozone figures compared to Pb, when you take the life
cycle figures into consideration, they make for great math. (probably better
than NiCad) Anyway, in another 6 or maybe 8 months, Valence should be a
really good option. Who knows, given a large enough order, on the lines of
a shipping container, they may be willing to bring the price down even
further. At that point, I'm sure there are a lot of people on this list
that would jump on part of that order. In the mean time, if anyone has
interest, contact Marc Kohler at Valence and let him fill you in on the
progress. He's very approachable and open on Valence technology and
progress. With enough interest, Marc might be able to get his bosses to let
him price a bunch of batteries in the range us EVers would be able to
afford.
FWIW
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: Michaela Merz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
Thank you Jerry and all the other posters.
While there is a certain truth in all your statements, some sound as if
they would have been taken from some 3 year old archive. New batteries are
expensive? Of course. But if one can place an order for 100 batteries,
they cost about 50% less. Would I buy a battery pack that gives me, say
200 Ahrs/C1 with 1/2 the weight of lead acid batteries for US$ 7500? Yes,
I would.
And Lithium-xy batteries require some sophisticated battery managment? Of
course (though Valence u-charge type batteries come with an integrated bms
and are thermal stable). The new generation thunderskys are supposed to be
save, will not burn and, should they catch fire (for whatever reasons),
you can use plain water to kill the fire.
I am very enthusiastic about EV technology. I can understand, that some EV
'oldtimers' (that is just an expression!) might be a bit frustrated. But
we (or you all) should encourage every 'newbie' (including me) as these
are the people that have the will, the drive and the power to continue and
to go .. (include homage to Gene Roddenberry)
Just my two cents.
mm.
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