EV Digest 4624
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Where can I get a 48 to 12v dc/dc to power my Emeter/Relays?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Zilla Backorders
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: MAGS
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Help me decide!
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Lynx's Motors
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Alltrax Controller
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Help me decide!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Belt Drives
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) 48 to 12v dc/dc
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: E-Vision (was: Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.)
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Reversing contactors -- Am I missing something?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Belt Drives
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV sayings and quotes needed
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) 330V DC/DCs on eBay
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: PFC Ground and Pack Negative (was RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PF)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The longer time i pull max amp was during a 2km BIG hill, no problem over
than seeing the gauge falling to empty indication furiously.
The controller is liquid cooled and use 400A IGBT :^)
you have to go up hill otherwise inertia help the motor and you can't take
200A continously, if there is a problem (overtemp) controller go to reduced
mode (max allowed is orange part of eco-meter so about 150A or at last case
green so about 100A)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Trevaskis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
> As a rule-of-thumb, the Saft STM5-100s give you a kW per monoblock -
> observing that the Peugeot 106/Citroen Saxo have 20 batts and 20kW (peak);
> the Peugeot Partner/Citroen Berlingo have 27 batts and quote 27kW peak;
and
> the Renault Kangoo has 22 batts and 22kW peak, though with the range
> extender genset running (if fitted) this peak is raised to 29kW. They
seem
> to have chosen to keep the battery amps < 180A most of the time.
>
> Philippe, the controllers wouldn't allow 200A over a long period though
> surely? Or would it only cut back if the motor/batt sensors start to
> indicate high temperatures?
>
> (I don't drive with the ECO in the red very often ;-)
>
> Matt
>
> > From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:24:35 +0200
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
> >
> > Saft STM5-100 are rated by Saft for 200A CONSTANT and 500A (10sec)
> > in 120V French electric car, battery amp allowed is 200A max (full
throttle,
> > red part of "eco-meter")
> > I controled max bat amp with OEM diag console while driving.
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
> >
> >
> >> On 8/24/05, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello Everybody:
> >>>
> >>> I have started to do some basic calculations on my new S-10 project.
> > Based
> >>> on the experiences with my current Nissan pickup, I have some figures
to
> >>> work with.
> >>>
> >>> Trojan T-125, 22 batteries, 130 Ah/C1
> >>>
> >>> Available energy: 17 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> >>> Weight: 660 Kg (1455 pounds)
> >>> Range at 60 Mph: About 35 Miles
> >>>
> >>> Saft Nicad STM 5-100 100 AH/C3
> >>> Available energy: 14.4 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> >>> Weight: 286 Kg (631 pounds)
> >>
> >> ^^^^^^ Be careful - kW is a measurement of power, not energy.
> >>
> >>> I don't know the C/1 value for those Safts, but I can save 800 pounds
of
> >>> weight by losing about 3 Kw of available energy. Question is, how can
I
> >>> set the weight loss in relation to the loss of Kws?
> >>
> >> That's about 22 x 100MREs. With a current limit of 180A, you will
> >> have more like 22kW of power, and around 15kWh of stored energy.
> >>
> >> With only 22kW in a heavy truck, the acceleration will be pretty poor
> >> and keeping up with 55mph traffic would be "flat out". Also the range
> >> won't be very impressive.
> >> I would recommend more batteries (meaning a higher system voltage), or
> >> use the higher capacity 140 or 180AH modules.
> >>
> >> Of course, it depends on what your requirements and budget is... what
is
> > it? :)
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> EVan
> >> http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
> >>
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
look at goldenopportunities on Ebay which sell sometimes astrosyn BXB75 (75W
48 to 12V) for 10$
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: Where can I get a 48 to 12v dc/dc to power my Emeter/Relays?
> I pulled the 12v lead acid battery off my tractor because flooded nicads
and flooded lead don't mix*.
> I basically tapped 12 volts of the pack to run my emeter and my on off
switches. Since I charge each block individually this isn't much of a
problem and I unplug my emeter after the run and charge so it doesn't drain
down. I have tried online in vain to find all those 48v to 12v converters
surplus but can't find any below 100$ does anyone know where I could find
one? I need one for the tractor. My EV Motorcycle I may buy one with high
output because it needs it for the lights but the tractor just needs to run
the two small relay coils and the emeter for 2 hours a week.
> Thanks,
> *At least according to my flooded nicad manuals. They say that the lead
acid fumes can destroy the nicad batteries.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was lucky enough to have a Metcal MX500 dual soldering setup simply
given to me by a friend who was closing his business and "didn't need it
anymore." Only later did I realize it was a $500 soldering station, not
including all the tips. Gotta love the <10 second warmup, even for the
big tips.
Otmar wrote:
At 8:47 AM -0700 8/24/05, Eric Poulsen wrote:
You need a better soldering iron. =) I suggest a Metcal.
I've got two of them, they are amazing!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow ... that page could cause seizures.
Stefano Landi wrote:
Hi I'm not sure if you know about this site. It's basically an e-zine on EV's.
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What are the specs and cost on that front end?
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
With BRUSA cooperation, initially I'm using front end they
developed for their Ah counters. The challenges you describe
have been solved long ago and the accuracy is 1% as of now.
The conversion electronics sits right on top of the shunt itself.
Additional PCB massaging incoming data (MME design) sits next to
BRUSA conversion PCB.
Later if this option will continue to cost more than I'd like
(that depends on the production volume) I will develop replacement
for their front end.
Danny Miller wrote:
So how are you building the shunt input stage? These are quite
tricky to do with low offset errors and good accuracy.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the problem is not AMP it's heat !
You can't pull more than 500A during 10sec (on full batteries) because temp
start immediately to go way higher than 45°C (forget long life) limit.
STM5-100MRE are liquid cooled, put ice in the tank for more time at big amp
et voila :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
>
>
> >
> > Michaela,
> >
> > On the SAFTs, the voltage drop will be about 7 volts per 100 amps.
> >
> > Also, do your calculations with a 250 amp limit. SAFTs don't like
> > to experience current draws more than 250 amps. This may mean that
> > you need more modules for a higher voltage pack to get the power
> > you want.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> >
> > Michaela Merz writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Everybody:
> > >
> > > I have started to do some basic calculations on my new S-10 project.
> Based
> > > on the experiences with my current Nissan pickup, I have some figures
to
> > > work with.
> > >
> > > Trojan T-125, 22 batteries, 130 Ah/C1
> > >
> > > Available energy: 17 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> > > Weight: 660 Kg (1455 pounds)
> > > Range at 60 Mph: About 35 Miles
> > >
> > > Saft Nicad STM 5-100 100 AH/C3
> > > Available energy: 14.4 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> > > Weight: 286 Kg (631 pounds)
> > >
> > > I don't know the C/1 value for those Safts, but I can save 800 pounds
of
> > > weight by losing about 3 Kw of available energy. Question is, how can
I
> > > set the weight loss in relation to the loss of Kws? And, NiCads don't
> > > experience that kind of voltage drop as i.e. those Trojans. If I would
> > > change the Trojans against Safts .. would I win or lose range?
> > >
> > > mm.
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've definately been thread-jacked. :)
-Sam
Roger Stockton wrote:
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Any motor *must* to be cooled, and thus if you discuss
efficiencies, you must view cooling hardware as part of the
motor factoring in energy spent for the cooling. If you do
this, liquid cooled motor will be ahead of the air cooled one
by quite wide margin (provided, same size and asked for the
same power). Way oversized air cooled motor which is thus
stone cold no matter what does not count).
The water pump in my ACRX which cools off 30 kW rated motor
AND inverter AND charger is a size of my fist, weigh 200g
(less than half pound), totally silent
and consumes 400mA from 12V source. This allows
the motor to run continuously putting out 30kW.
I've no interest in actiavely participating in this debate, however, I
must point out that the water pump does *not* cool anything. It merely
circulates the coolant which transports the heat energy from the source
to the sink. So, the weight of the pump alone is meaningless. If you
want to compare your liquid cooled system to an aircooled one, you must
include the weight of the coolant, the hoses, the pump, the radiator,
coolant resevoir/expansion tank, and any additional brackets, etc. for
securing these bits to the vehicle.
In comparison, an air-cooled motor has one part, the internal fan.
Instead of additional brackets, etc. to support the bits of the cooling
system what you need are holes (which tend to be quite lightweight ;^)
in the bodywork and motor case to allow air to circulate.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anybody seen this?
http://www.lynxmotiontechnology.com/
I wonder if anybody has tested or seen on of these guys?
Looks like a neat motor.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert,
I believe the Alltrax is RS-232, but it shouldn't matter to the program
if you send it to a USB port. I am sure if I can get it working it will go to
the usb port. You will need a rs232 -> USB converter. I am not sure the
alltrax will work with it. It is worth experimenting with. I have such a
converter so I can try it.
As far as tips, using a protocol analyzer really helps. It looks like the
alltrax uses a hexidecimal code and a poll/response protocol. Phillipe is
recording the serial stream monitoring one function at a time, thus reducing
the number of variables. I will analyze his data and see if I can interpret it
correctly. Then write a program and try it out on an controller an
acquaintance of mine has, unless I purchase one by then for my EV project.
We'll handle the more tough and possibly dangerous configuration commands after
the data gathering commands.
Stephen Paschke
Sr. Consultant
Keane Consulting
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Alltrax Controller
Hi there,
You said that you could interface the Alltrax 7245 controller to the Palm unit?
Is the interface similar to the pc version. I was also wondering, i have a palm
pilot and palm tungsten e as well with USB interface. Could that
interface you were working on go the the USB of the tungsten E, that would be
great as the screen is nice a coloured and bright.
Cheers p.s I really want to learn how to hack these things. If you got any
tips or pointers for newbies like me, please let me know.
Cheers
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe not realistic, but food for thought:
Heads up display of the data
Wireless networking
Email alert sent to you if charging failure
GPS info
Correlation of GPS and current, with warning if car seems to be
working harder than normal (like alignment getting bad)
Read regbus data (like which batt fills up first, and which last)
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You're right about weight Roger, the debate was
about *electric* efficiency.
The shaft fan is no match to the coolant liquid circulating
through the winding.
To comapare apples to apples you have to compare energy
it takes to cool off the same motor to the same degree
while it puts out the same power.
I maintain thatthe air blower which provides the same
cooling effect as liquid cooling system with all its
radiators, pumps, hoses, etc will consume many more
watts.
I don't have much interested to participate either;
I have proved this to myself numerous times.
Others can keep debating.
Victor
Roger Stockton wrote:
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Any motor *must* to be cooled, and thus if you discuss
efficiencies, you must view cooling hardware as part of the
motor factoring in energy spent for the cooling. If you do
this, liquid cooled motor will be ahead of the air cooled one
by quite wide margin (provided, same size and asked for the
same power). Way oversized air cooled motor which is thus
stone cold no matter what does not count).
The water pump in my ACRX which cools off 30 kW rated motor
AND inverter AND charger is a size of my fist, weigh 200g
(less than half pound), totally silent
and consumes 400mA from 12V source. This allows
the motor to run continuously putting out 30kW.
I've no interest in actiavely participating in this debate, however, I
must point out that the water pump does *not* cool anything. It merely
circulates the coolant which transports the heat energy from the source
to the sink. So, the weight of the pump alone is meaningless. If you
want to compare your liquid cooled system to an aircooled one, you must
include the weight of the coolant, the hoses, the pump, the radiator,
coolant resevoir/expansion tank, and any additional brackets, etc. for
securing these bits to the vehicle.
In comparison, an air-cooled motor has one part, the internal fan.
Instead of additional brackets, etc. to support the bits of the cooling
system what you need are holes (which tend to be quite lightweight ;^)
in the bodywork and motor case to allow air to circulate.
Cheers,
Roger.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are some details in the Ah manual. The front end
conversion PCB is really not a product in itself, it's a
part of the complete Ah counter. By itself it is
about $300 - my guess.
Victor
Danny Miller wrote:
What are the specs and cost on that front end?
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
With BRUSA cooperation, initially I'm using front end they
developed for their Ah counters. The challenges you describe
have been solved long ago and the accuracy is 1% as of now.
The conversion electronics sits right on top of the shunt itself.
Additional PCB massaging incoming data (MME design) sits next to
BRUSA conversion PCB.
Later if this option will continue to cost more than I'd like
(that depends on the production volume) I will develop replacement
for their front end.
Danny Miller wrote:
So how are you building the shunt input stage? These are quite
tricky to do with low offset errors and good accuracy.
Danny
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ray Brooks wrote:
> An oring chain does have a lot more drag when compared to a non-oring chain.
> O-ring chains are required equipment on high HP-high speed bikes because of
> lube loss on non-oring chains. Low hp - low speed bikes don't abuse their
> chains as bad and can get by with non-oring.
How about an x ring chain instead of o?
http://www.didchain.com/street.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Evan and everybody:
I currently have 22 x T-125 in my Nissan Truck. The range at 60 Mph is
about 35 Miles, 0-60 in about 20-30 seconds. That is about 17 Kw of stored
energy.
Evan wrote:
> That's about 22 x 100MREs. With a current limit of 180A, you will
> have more like 22kW of power, and around 15kWh of stored energy.
> With only 22kW in a heavy truck, the acceleration will be pretty poor
> and keeping up with 55mph traffic would be "flat out". Also the range
> won't be very impressive.
Well .. the truck is not 'that' heavy. And I would save about 1/2 the
weight of batteries though. Compared to Lead Acid that is. A saving of
about 450 Kg.
> I would recommend more batteries (meaning a higher system voltage), or
> use the higher capacity 140 or 180AH modules.
The bigger modules are aircooled? How would I be able to keep temperatures
in check with just air flow? Big (huge) fans? A/c ?
That's what I am currently trying to find out. What is the system voltage
on those Solectria S-10s?
> Of course, it depends on what your requirements and budget is... what is
> it? :)
I am planning to invest as much as I would want to pay for a new truck,
including complete restoration of the donor vehicle to an almost 'as new'
condition. About maybe US$ 20,000 to 25,000
That is the reason I want to include a nice battery pack that lasts as
long as the truck. Even if it increases the budget a bit more.
Any advise is greatly appreciated.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
Maybe not realistic, but food for thought:
Heads up display of the data
Realized in the BMS (just a reflection type)
Wireless networking
There
Email alert sent to you if charging failure
Who's to check the email before driving? You must be jocking?
Well, BMS can call your cell phone (via GSM modem) to report the status.
As well you can call your car, inquire SOC, remotely plug/unplug it
(I should say turn the charger on/off, of course physically it must be
plugged in) or whatever you need.
GPS info
Available in numeric form. It is not meant to be used for navigation.
Correlation of GPS and current, with warning if car seems to be
working harder than normal (like alignment getting bad)
THis is what Wh/mile is for . You set the alarm to trigger if
the value exceeds whatever your threshold for programmed duration/
inincline/speed.
Read regbus data (like which batt fills up first, and which last)
What bus? :-)
Sorry, this is not there and not going to be there.
Next week Rich might come up with yet another bus and
you expect everyone to rush building interfaces to it?
How about EVil bus then? Or whatever else bus local
geniuses may come up with?
For now I stick to something standard such as CAN.
This is what industry uses for very good reasons.
But we already debated this, people is free and will
reinvent a wheel anyway. Let's leave it at that.
I don't see much sense in fixing what's not broken and
works perfectly fine.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
One additional thought came to my mind. You mentioned the ability to
run 1 or 2 auto gauges. If you do that can you set it up so that the
user can choose between regulating 12 volt positive or 12 volt
grounding? Most auto gas gauges are looking for ground, but as soon as
1 way is set in stone someone will need to supply power instead.
Paul "neon" Gooch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have tried online in vain to find all those 48v to 12v converters
surplus but can't find any below 100$ does anyone know where I could
find one?
I too am looking for some DC/DC converters. My 12v load needs are small
(5 amps would do it). I'm more looking for a smaller physical size than
the lowest price. I need a 48v to 12v DC/DC and a 72v to 12v DC/DC. I've
found some at the usual souces. Any tips which units are the
smaller/smallest ones? Housing is not important. I can put it in a box.
Thx!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
The E-meter takes 25-50ma at 12v even in "sleep" mode (all LEDs except
the state-of-charge bargraph off). This may not seem like much, but it
can kill a 12v accessory battery in a few weeks if the car isn't driven.
Or, if you try to keep the accessory battery charged by running the main
DC/DC, its low efficiency at such a light load causes it to kill the
main pack in not much longer.
I may feed it via DC-DC off the main pack, but this is low power DC-DC
and so efficient (since fully loaded). I don't beloeve 3-5mA from the
traction pack is too much - perhaps it is less than self-discharge
rate.
I would hope that the standby power of your Evision meter could be at
least 10 times lower. But the tendency is to treat 12v power as
"infinite". So newer gadgets keep drawing more and more power, even
though technology could have allowed them to use less.
I can only see how much stand by power it will use, provided
some design efforts are taken to reduce it. Will see.
And, not to worry, you'll get ASCII out Lee. I suppose
no one cares how the modules talk to each other internally.
Probably not. But my own "vision" is that the shunt and prescaler could
speak in a standard, documented way so that multiple sensors could be
added to that bus.
I don't have "prescaler", people so get use to this idea
that can't easily free up their mind of it.
Any, yes, the modules will use standard CAN bus for talking
to each other.
Perhaps you want two shunts, one for battery and one
for motor amps? Or two voltmeters, for two packs? Or add 3 temperature
sensors, one for each battery box? This is the sort of thing I had in
mind when I designed the EVILbus.
I was perhaps simpler for you to come up with your
own design than master how to use existing one.
Else I don't really see any advantage of using
non-standard EVil bus with $2 node cost vs
well proven bullet proof CAN bus handling eror
correction in hardware, (numerous advantages here)
and still costing about $2 if you wish cheap version of it.
Of course there is software to take advantage of it
and it is not as simple to master.
EVil bus works for what you need because all you need is
in your own EV in your garage. Outside that the world
doesn't know about EVil bus, open published specs or not.
BAck to EVision, yes, you can connect about 90 shunts
in different places if you wish. I can only imagine
displaying info they produce...
I was assuming that these days it is not an issue to get
some sort of memory card reader for a computer, but may
be naively wrong. Anyway, RS232 will be there (isolated :-)
My experience is that RS-232 has been around "forever", and continues to
be supported on brand-new devices. But there have been dozens of
temporary, proprietary standards that come and go every few years. SD
cards weren't around a couple years ago; what makes you think they will
be a couple years in the future? More likely, they will have been
replaced by some hot new plug-in memory format.
Perhaps. Then I'll modify EVision.
With this mentality nothing ever should be build
unless 50 years around. DVDs weren't around even
10 years too, and may be disappearing 10 years
from now too. Try to convince people NOT to buy
DVD palyers today on this basis.
Beware of designing your product around temporary parts or technologies!
Will try foresee as far as I can. If I could predict
such things, I'd be playing on the stock market :-)
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Lee brought up some interesting points about LED vs. LCD. Both have
times when they can be hard to read. My concern about LED is how hard
they can be to read when the sun shines right into the display.
I made the switch to LCD color transflective screens some time ago for
my outdoor LCD reading needs. Transflective displays were dark and muted
until about three years ago. Now they are bright and vibrant. This tech
is fantastic. Bright as a regular LCD at night, and the pixels reflect
sunlight providing a vivid, eye popping display in the day time.
Great for outdoor instrumentation displays, cell phone/blackberry
screens, and tablet/notebook computer screens. I'm using them for all
these purposes and couldn't be happier.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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Will have to think about this one, may be I'll make it "bi-directional",
it will cost extra dual high side driver chip. Currently EVision PWMs to
ground with low side switches.
I think it is simpler to invert my output externally.
I'll make a note of your good observation, thanks!
Paul G. wrote:
Victor,
One additional thought came to my mind. You mentioned the ability to run
1 or 2 auto gauges. If you do that can you set it up so that the user
can choose between regulating 12 volt positive or 12 volt grounding?
Most auto gas gauges are looking for ground, but as soon as 1 way is set
in stone someone will need to supply power instead.
Paul "neon" Gooch
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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The thing with the contactors rating is that in EV's under normal
conductions they are not opened or closed under load , . The one problem I
see it that if you push to much current through them they might weld
together and not open when you want them to . With the reversing contactor
this wouldn't be to bad as you would just go forward but on the battery side
it could be a problem . If you have 2 one on the pos and one on the neg side
of you pack , you would be covered with one not opening . I have had my
share of things going wrong but have never had a problem with this , and use
the Albright sw200 alot.
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:21 AM
Subject: Reversing contactors -- Am I missing something?
As I understand it, for a main contactor, something like the Kilovac EV200
(Czonka III) is quite capable of handling the Battery --> controller
current. The motor current is considerably higher, depending on the
controller.
The part I don't understand is that the EV200 is rated at 200A continuous,
while the reversing contactors I see available (Albright SW202) are rated
at 250A continuous, 360A intermittent which seems really really low if
you're using something like a Z1K.
Am I missing something fundamental? Are reversing contactors generally
only used for lower-powered vehicles? Or do people simply run them past
their rated current regularly?
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Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Will have to think about this one, may be I'll make it
> "bi-directional", it will cost extra dual high side driver
> chip. Currently EVision PWMs to
> ground with low side switches.
>
> I think it is simpler to invert my output externally.
> I'll make a note of your good observation, thanks!
A possibility may be to have your PWM output drive an opto isolator such
as a PhotoMOS device (MOSFET output). Connect the output of the opto so
it can switch DC of either polarity (dual FETs wired back-to-back) and
bring these leads out as "dry contacts" that the user can connect to
interrupt either polarity line to his analog gauge.
The same observtion holds for any switched output your device provides:
if your output switches to ground or 12V you will encounter customers
who require the opposite; if you supply a pair of NO dry contacts, you
will encounter customers who require NC dry contacts. Best option is to
use a SPDT relay and provide all 3 contacts to the user so they can wire
up with either NC or NO dry contacts as required to switch whatever they
need to.
Both of these features costs a little more, but it doesn't sound like
you are building this device for the frugal anyway ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
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I understand these solutions, Thanks Roger.
It is easy to make power CMOS output similar
to 6pack IGBTs, pulling both ways.
It's just I thought of people installing their own gadgets
(analog gauges) to be used as amp/volt/SOC/miles/whatever meters,
so they are at liberty to connect one side always to specified
poing (+12V) and toggle low side.
I know some people wants to drive stock gauges, but with
scales as coarse as E, 1/2, F or no scale at all (red zone
for the temp gauge) it is not that useful.
Well, may be all people want to know is if they are in
red zone, not the number.
How much current do stock gauges consume?
New are magneto-electric as analog ammeters, but some
are bi-metal pair bending pointer mechanism, these hog
amps! Not that many of those around anymore though.
Victor
Roger Stockton wrote:
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Will have to think about this one, may be I'll make it
"bi-directional", it will cost extra dual high side driver
chip. Currently EVision PWMs to
ground with low side switches.
I think it is simpler to invert my output externally.
I'll make a note of your good observation, thanks!
A possibility may be to have your PWM output drive an opto isolator such
as a PhotoMOS device (MOSFET output). Connect the output of the opto so
it can switch DC of either polarity (dual FETs wired back-to-back) and
bring these leads out as "dry contacts" that the user can connect to
interrupt either polarity line to his analog gauge.
The same observtion holds for any switched output your device provides:
if your output switches to ground or 12V you will encounter customers
who require the opposite; if you supply a pair of NO dry contacts, you
will encounter customers who require NC dry contacts. Best option is to
use a SPDT relay and provide all 3 contacts to the user so they can wire
up with either NC or NO dry contacts as required to switch whatever they
need to.
Both of these features costs a little more, but it doesn't sound like
you are building this device for the frugal anyway ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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almost the same , the warp 9 is 16.7 long , about 1/2 inch longer which is
becuse the brushes are bigger .
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
They are the same dimensions as ADC, except the Impulse 9" which is
shorter and I have ordered for my car.
Mark Ward
St. Charles,MO
95 Saab 900SE
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
From: Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2005/08/24 Wed AM 08:36:06 EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
Speaking of which , ive read that the WarP 9in DC motor is of the same
dimensions as the ADC9 motor, so im assuming that the motor mounts in
the kits that places like EvAmerica and Canev would fit the Warp9 ?
Cwarman
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For the price difference between high end oring and high end non-oring you
could just replace the non-oring more often and be ahead. Or go with a mid
range non-oring replaced more often and be way ahead.
The oring chains do wear and start to suck up even more hp . The last new
street bike I bought broke it's oem o-ring chain at 9000 miles. When I put
on the new oem oring chain it felt like the bike had picked up 3 or 4 hp [
which is a lot on a 55 hp bike ].
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Belt Drives
> Ray Brooks wrote:
>
> > An oring chain does have a lot more drag when compared to a non-oring
chain.
> > O-ring chains are required equipment on high HP-high speed bikes because
of
> > lube loss on non-oring chains. Low hp - low speed bikes don't abuse
their
> > chains as bad and can get by with non-oring.
>
> How about an x ring chain instead of o?
>
> http://www.didchain.com/street.html
>
>
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I've had problems with LCD displays when wearing (polarized?) sun
glasses... kinda fun to turn my head to one side and watch the display
fade in/out but not real practical....
Neon John wrote:
LCDs are comparatively hard to
read under all conditions, very difficult to read with peripheral
vision, slow or stop in cold weather, turn black in hot weather and
difficult to read with poor vision.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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Roderick Wilde wrote:
> So far there has been very
> little support from the EV List community by endorsing our site and its
> concepts. Feedback and ideas are always welcome.
Out here in the dead west("mid west"), the car is king. It's not
uncommon at all for some place to be a 10 or 15 mile drive. I drive
that far to eat out. I drive that far to go to Best Buy or CompUSA.
I'm fixing to have to drive that far twice a day once school starts.
I might have to drive that far twice a day when I get my "real job";
depending on where I move. Suburban sprawl like you can't imagine.
Sure, there's a bus route in this town. I've never ridden it. It
would be a long walk to the stop near my house. I'd have to plan my
day around riding the bus because it would be time consuming getting
around on it. Not to mention slow and inconvenient.
If a bike can't go the posted speed limit, I say keep it on the
sidewalk. Such a hazard to be driving down a busy 4 or 5 lane street
and someone is pedaling down the edge of the road backing cars up for
a mile as the one lane slows so everyone can swerve around the rider.
Sure, I see a taxi once in a while(probably taking someone to the
airport..). I've never ridden in one. Expensive from what I hear.
It would cost more per day to use one then it would to use a car that
even gets poor fuel mileage.
There is an Amtrak train that goes from OKC to Dallas. Never used it.
If I was to use it, these would be the things it would have to meet:
1. Get me there faster then I could drive myself there! I can get
there in 4 hours. The train takes 5 or 6(or more!).
2. Cost less for me to ride the train then drive myself. I could
drive my 10mpg car down there and back and it would still be cheaper
then buying train tickets.
3. Have the "auto train" cars so I can bring my car with me!
http://www.answers.com/topic/auto-train
I'd suggest taking a trip to Dallas or Houston or Florida and rent a
car and spend a few days "seeing the sights". See how much driving
you do just to get around.
I've been to Washington D.C. and Seattle before. Public
transportation is no fun. It's slow and time consuming. I don't even
like having to use those "mini subways" they have in major airports.
I just about lost my mind on the ferry as it was cruising along at
about 1 mph for.. I don't even remember how long. 1 hour? 2? 45
minutes? Too freaking long however long it was.
As far as bicycles go: Too dangerous in this town. Not to mention
all the inclement weather we have: Below freezing or over 100
degrees, raining, snowing.. It's rarely nice out.
Motorcycles are a lot of fun. I'm just going to have to accept the
fact that they are a dangerous way of having fun. I WILL crash and
burn if I'm out "hot rodding" around on one and I can't get to work
when I'm laid out in the hospital, or worse, paralyzed from the waist
down.. And yes, I do have a motorcycle license and have taken the MSF
course. Spend time on one of the Sport Bike forums online and you'll
read about people crashing and dieing several times a week. It's not
that way on the car or truck boards..
How about redirect your energy and resources and make the
http://www.eaaev.org/ really something?
Someone posted an excellent article a while back about the electric
bikes in China. Said China is turning into the same way it is over
here. Urban sprawl. Office parks and industrial complexes. Suburbs.
Super highways. Someone on a TV program I was watching said when he
first started his company in China in 1994, all of his employees rode
bikes to work. Now they all drive to work. It's hard to beat the
utility or convenience of an automobile.
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A nice DC/DC for those with higher voltage packs?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7540996065
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Roland Wiench wrote:
>Place those interlocking 1 inch thick matting around the EV, or do
the entire >garage floor. There is no conductance to ground now.
I wonder if this floor coating is conductive?
http://ucoatit.com/
http://www.musclegloss.com/
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