EV Digest 4627
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Netgain Warp Dimensions
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 330V DC/DCs on eBay
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: (Electric) Power Steering
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery Question / Pricing. Now long range EV
by "jukka =?UTF-8?B?asOkcnZpbmVu?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: increasing range
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Help me decide!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery Question / Pricing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: increasing range
by Matthew Trevaskis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Help me decide!
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Correct AGM finish charge (Was: Re: PFC-30)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: increasing range
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Battery Question / Pricing. Now long range EV
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Solectria S-10 Service Manual
by "Ralph Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Netgain WarP Impulse dimensions
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: increasing range
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: increasing range
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Reversing contactors -- Am I missing something?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Send an email to NetGain, they seem to be pretty responsive.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cwarman
Sent: August 25, 2005 9:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
I guess what im concerned with and maybe i should ask Canev or someone if
the Warp9 will fit right into the Motor mount etc that they made for the ADC
9's they sell..
Anyone have any experience here with this...
CWarman
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> almost the same , the warp 9 is 16.7 long , about 1/2 inch longer
> which is becuse the brushes are bigger .
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
>
>
>> They are the same dimensions as ADC, except the Impulse 9" which is
>> shorter and I have ordered for my car.
>>
>> Mark Ward
>> St. Charles,MO
>> 95 Saab 900SE
>> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Date: 2005/08/24 Wed AM 08:36:06 EST
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
>>>
>>> Speaking of which , ive read that the WarP 9in DC motor is of the
>>> same dimensions as the ADC9 motor, so im assuming that the motor
>>> mounts in the kits that places like EvAmerica and Canev would fit the
Warp9 ?
>>>
>>> Cwarman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> .
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ask at saft USA they will make you keep shipment cost under control !
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
>
> >>
> >> Saft STM5-100 are rated by Saft for 200A CONSTANT and 500A (10sec)
> >> in 120V French electric car, battery amp allowed is 200A max (full
> >> throttle,
> >> red part of "eco-meter")
> >> I controled max bat amp with OEM diag console while driving.
> any idea about the price / weight and shipping to florida. I'd need about
50
> of them for my lawn mower project . .
> steve clunn
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
this one is 330V max and be aware than vicor modules don't like at all over
voltage (even transient kill them fast) use a MOV at input
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: 330V DC/DCs on eBay
> This page: http://www.bjjtzj.com/product112.asp
>
> Claims they are 180-375 VDC input
>
> Claudio Natoli wrote:
>
> >A nice DC/DC for those with higher voltage packs?
> >
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7540996065
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
Not much different than the power required for a Toyota MR2 PS Pump.
Right. Point being it *is* the MR2 pump. And it works really well. Only
time it bogs down is when it is bitter cold and the car has just powered
up and the DC-DC is charging the battery, running the heat fans, and the
headlights.
The Dolphin includes a 1kw DC-DC converter and a single 26ah Hawker to
power the DC system. Normal computer power is under 200 watts.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
>> 200 ah pack will weigh under 350 pounds. Real nice in a motorcycle.
>> Work in a larger EV too. YOu'd need to double that to get 1200 amps
200 ah li-co cells give nicely 1200 a. I use 20x200 ah with 1k zilla + 2x
6,7"adc in my road legal MCEV. whole bike is about 260 kgs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Danny and All,
Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Let's not get into the "free energy" discussion again, please.
Regarding Tesla's electric car, IMHO it's a hoax:
http://www.tfcbooks.com/teslafaq/q&a_016.htm
Logically there's no known way he could store or transmit the power to
As in many of your posts here you are not correct. With your
record so far you might want to ask questions rather than keep stating things
as facts.
They have transmited enough microwave energy to cars, planes to make
them go. While usually not practical, it does work. And to power a satelite
high alt replacement plane, could be worth i for cell phone, TV, data links,
ect.
Danny
Brian Staffanson wrote:
>This may sound off-the-wall at first, but bear with me. It might have a good
>point in there somewhere.
>What if we put these devices in our ev's, inductively collecting power to
>increase range, having a battery backup when needed? I know that this
>currently is illegal, but the thought came to me, why not have the transmit
>back something to the power company to "who" he is, and how much power he is
>taking. That way the power company could bill the person who is using the
>power. I know that this would require the power companies to upgrade. (Maybe I
>should have patented this idea first.) This way, we would be able to drive our
>cars anywhere
It's been patented many decades ago!! One could use coils in the roadway
to both propel the EV as a linear motor and charge the batts at the same time.
Much better would be a side power rail or overhead wires that a trolley like
arm would engage to do just what you are thinking about at a much cheaper cost..
Trains, trolleys have used these for 130 yrs now so it's a mature tech and
could be easily added to highways if demand is there. With the way fuel prices
are about to go up, it could be something truckers may need!!
>
>I would like to hear what anyone out there thinks of this idea. Good, bad,
>interesting, stupid... I think it could work, if we would work together to
>make it work, but this is a dream. Where is the realism?
>
>Comments welcome.
>Brian
>Driver (short distances close to home and avoiding police) of an 1974 electric
>voltswagon, which is not registered, insured, and needs a state inspection to
>be legal to drive, for about 2 weeks now. It has been fun. I will send in
>pictures, and information to the album soon.
>
Get it registered as it will save you enough in gas to pay for itself
shortly.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David and All,
As a happy Zivan owner, I wanted to comment on this post. As far as
reliability issues, I'm thinking the K models had some issues, and I
believe it was because they were designed for 220 (250?) volt European
juice, so the higher input current on the 120V input models would kill
them. I've been charging floodies with a 120V NG3 model since November of
1999 (has it really been that long?!), and knock on wood it's still humping
in the amps. I would never mount it under the hood, and had it in the
behind the seats in the RX-7, and likewise in the truck were it has been
living for about 30k miles now. Yes, it is fine for floodies with it's
three stage algorithm, but will murder AGMs without regs. As far as the
isolation goes, when my first floody pack was at it's EOL in the RX-7, I
was bit hard (through the chest!) when I had one hand on the chassis and
touched a battery terminal accidently while the Zivan was charging! And if
you need to change pack voltages to something similar to the original
configuration, you can get an EPROM from the distributor and change some
dip switches, as I recall, without having to send it off. What will I
replace it with, or purchase in the future for another buggy?...
BB
>From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:27:51 -0400
>
>On 22 Aug 2005 at 16:48, Cwarman wrote:
>
>> Im wondering if on a limited budget if this is an area that i could
>> scrimp just a tad and go with a Russco or Zivan for $500-$700 cheaper than
>> the cheapest PFC ?
>
>WARNING: The following is NOT an endorsement nor is it based on personal
>experience, but rather on hearsay and personal use by friends. My own EV
>chargers, except for the homemade ones, have carried such names as
>Vanguard, Lester, Cybortronics, K&W, Solectria, and Brusa.
>
>So take it for what it's worth. <g>
>
>Believe it or not, the most "feature-y" charger you name is probably the
>Zivan.
> It is 100% isolated and has microprocessor control with temperature
>compensation (optional sender required) and various charge profiles for
>different chemistries.
>
>Ah, but the devil is in the details. The Zivan is a rather cheaply made
>charger
>and has demonstrated some reliability problems. Obtaining support can also
>be a challenge. Its AGM algorithms reportely murder AGMs by severely
>overcharging them. If you want to change pack voltage or battery type, you
>have to send it back to the distributor for modification, a pain for those
>folks
>who like to experiment. It is not a true PFC charger, though there are much
>worse (the old K&W BC-20s come to mind ;-). Zivans are apparently better
>for flooded batteries than for AGMs.
>
>Bottom line: Zivan chargers offer a lot for the money, if you're prepared
>to deal
>with their limitations.
<snipage>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Evan, Michaela and All,
Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 8/25/05, Michaela Merz wrote:
>
> Hey Evan:
>
> So - the problem is available power in terms of Kw i.e. for acceleration.
> Well, I guess I have to go up to a 240 Volt system, 40 Batteries (528 Kg,
> 1164 lb), still better than my Trojan pack with 660Kg (1455 lb). Limiting
> the NiCads to 150 A max would give me 36 Kw available .. not a rocket, but
> should be ok.
Hi there,
Yes, that definitely sounds better (I would still choose a limit of
180 or 200A) - also I think that many batteries will hold about 28kWh
which should be at least 60 miles worth, perhaps more.
It would be interesting to put these figures into "Uve's electric
vehicle calculator"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8679/evcalc.html and try
out these scenarios.
The one thing to look out for is that the modules can reach a voltage
as high as 9V each during comissioning and maintenance charges (normal
charge 8.25V or so). That high a voltage might dictate your choice of
controller and charger.
> So - I guess I should be aiming for 240 Volts/STM 5-100 (40 Batteries) or
> 174 Volts/SMT 5-140 (29 Batts).
29 of the 140s is 476kg and stores 25kWh
40 of the 100s is 528kg, stores 28kWh
Both will give roughly the same power (40-44 kW) for accelleration. I
guess the 29 cell solution may be cheaper and it should be easier to
find room for them, water them, etc.
The 29 cells "looks" more like a DC solution (using a Zilla controller
and 9" Advanced DC motor say) and the 40 cells is more Siemens or
Solectria AC drive territory, but that's not a rule by any means.
I'd think the 240vdc solution with either Victors Seimens or a
Selectria either new or buy an E 10 and get the transaxle, controller, A/C,
power steering, ect from it or just convert it to ni-cad if it isn't already.
And if she needs more range she could add more batts though with the
eff of these AC systems, she isn't as likely to need it compared to a DC drive
system and the cost isn't that much different than a Zilla, 9".
Of course decreasing it's aero, rolling drag will help a lot too
especially if she wants to do 60-70 mph much. Good aero mods will cut her power
needs at 60+ mph by 25% or more, thus increase her range and power available to
pass, accelerate, not slow on hills..
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Hope that helps.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sam Harper wrote:
>
> I've definately been thread-jacked. :)
You're right! Sam, let's get back to your original questions, instead of
pointless arguments about impractical solutions for you.
Did you get enough useful information (before the AC/DC holy wars) to
help you decide?
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> There are some details in the Ah manual. The front end
> conversion PCB is really not a product in itself, it's a
> part of the complete Ah counter. By itself it is
> about $300 - my guess.
Yow! I thought you were working on something competitive with the
E-meter.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I don't believe 3-5mA from the traction pack is too much...
Probably not. 5ma for 6 months is 21.6 amphours. No EV should sit that
long without charging. So 5ma is ok for packs with batteries of larger
than this capacity (assuming the 5ma is the total load).
> I can only see how much standby power it will use, provided
> some design efforts are taken to reduce it. Will see.
Be aware than CANbus is not a low-power bus. The micros needed to
support it are not low-power, either.
>> My own "vision" is that the shunt and prescaler could speak in a
>> standard, documented way so that multiple sensors could be added
>> to that bus.
> I don't have "prescaler", people so get use to this idea
> that can't easily free up their mind of it.
By "shunt" and "prescaler" I was just using common terms to mean
"whatever black box measures current" and "whatever black box measures
voltage".
I see an EV instrumentation system as having a large number of
high-voltage, high-current, temperature, and other sensors. It is
desirable to tie them together on a bus, so various controllers can
gather and share the data they need to make decisions. This must work in
a high-noise environment, and use very little power. It must be reliable
in an automotive environment. It needs to be an "open" standard that
anyone can understand and use (or else nobody but the originator will
use it). And of course, they must be cheap or none get sold.
I designed EVILbus because I didn't find that CANbus (or any other bus I
know of) to be suitable for this purpose. CANbus for example is a
non-isolated, high-speed, computer-intensive bus for low-noise
environments.
I know you like CAN, so it's pointless to argue. But I would be curious
to know how you will address the above issues. Which CAN standard are
you using? What is the number of the standard, and where is it
documented? Is it a public standard, or trade secret standard (internal
to some company) that anyone will have to pay or license to use? Any
idea of the power consumption or cost per node? Are any products except
your allowed to connect to it?
> It was perhaps simpler for you to come up with your own design
> than master how to use existing one.
No; not simpler. I did research many buses, looking for something that
would work. I would much rather use existing hardware than build my own!
> Else I don't really see any advantage of using non-standard EVILbus
> with $2 node cost vs well proven bullet proof CAN bus handling error
> correction in hardware, (numerous advantages here) and still costing
> about $2 if you wish cheap version of it.
Sounds like another holy war, Victor; I'm not going there. You will use
CAN no matter what, that's fine; so no point in debating it. I'm just
asking how you are going to deal with the power, cost, noise, and
isolation issues. I couldn't see any way to get an isolated low-power
CANbus node for under $20/node; whereas the EVILbus is more like
$2/node.
> EVIL bus works for what you need because all you need is
> in your own EV in your garage. Outside that the world
> doesn't know about EVIL bus, open published specs or not.
Correct. Nobody knows your bus, either.
> Back to EVision, yes, you can connect about 90 shunts
> in different places if you wish. I can only imagine
> displaying info they produce...
For example, the Tango modular chargers each measure battery voltage,
battery current, battery temperature, pack voltage, charger temperature,
read two switches, and drive an LED and piezoelectric speaker. That's 9
device per node. There are 26 such nodes in a 25-battery car; 234
devices altogether. Mostly, you don't display any of this information;
it's just used "behind the scenes" to keep all the batteries charged and
balanced. How would you approach such a problem with your system?
>> will SD cards around a couple years in the future? ... Beware of
>> designing your product around temporary parts or technologies!
> Perhaps. Then I'll modify EVision.
That's fine for a manufacturer. He can change designs every few months.
What about the customer that has last month's system, and now can't get
parts or support for it?
> With this mentality nothing ever should be build unless 50 years
> around.
I didn't say 50 years. The EV itself won't last that long. But cars *do*
last 10+years -- so I would restrict myself to parts and technologies
that can be reasonably expected to last that long. The easiest indicator
is, "Has it already been around 10 years? Then it has a good chance to
be around for another 10 years."
> Will try foresee as far as I can. If I could predict
> such things, I'd be playing on the stock market :-)
I pick parts that have multiple sources, so if one manufacturer drops
it, there are other sources. I use parts that have already been on the
market for years years, and are widely used by many customers already. I
use generic parts rather than highly specialized parts. I use parts for
which real-world life data exists, not just theoretical marketing
projections. These all help.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter wrote:
> I am working on the EV Smart conversion... looking for daily usable
> 80-100 AH @ 48Volts... located in Orlando, FL...
Ok, so batteries available in the US are fine.
> Underneath the car is 8" tall, 42" wide, 18" front to back...
> With Optimas, I lose 1.5" of ground clearance (bringing it down
> to 6" of ground clearance). Around the AC lines, I think I can
> fit 6 underneath...
6" ground clearance is probably ok, but 6 Optimas won't give you
80-100ah at 48v -- you need 8 at least. 8 Optimas is about 350 lbs, and
about 80ah at 48v at the 1-hour rate (2 parallel strings).
> Can Optimas be mounted on their side?
Yes, if that helps.
> The Trojans are way too tall for underneath.
Yes, if you mean golf cart batteries. But Trojan (and other
manufacturers) have dozens of sizes.
I'm thinking that Hawkers would be another choice. They are quite
similar to Optimas performance-wise, but come in a much wider range of
sizes, many of which would easily fit in your space. The key is that
you'll need 350-400 lbs of lead-acids to get your 80-100ah at 48v at the
1-hour rate. (The 1-hour rate is a good benchmark to rate EV batteries.
It's the capacity they can provide if you drive for 1 hour).
> Peacebay sent me info on their 80AH NIMH ($69 / per pack), resulting in $2000
> for 80AH at 48 volts. It is rated for 400 Amp max discharge (the same as my
> controller). (130 pound pack)
I'm skeptical. (Those who know me would say I'm a profession skeptic. I
*never* believe battery manufacturer's ratings! :-) I do not think you
will get 80ah at 48v at the 1-hour rate from a 130 lbs nimh pack. They
are maybe twice as good as lead-acid, but not 3 times better. I'll bet
you would need at least 200 lbs of them to match 400 lbs of Optimas or
Hawkers.
> Everspring has Cr-F-Li also at $2000 for 90 AH (under 100 pounds).
> However, they can only handle 270 Amps ( I would have to move to
> 200Amp batteries, resulting in $4000)
Thunderskys? I have some of their 90ah cells and they are worthless at
your current levels. The evidence suggests that you need at least the
200ah Thundersky cells to get the performance you need.
Be aware that these batteries all require more expensive chargers and
battery management systems. The lead-acids are the easiest, and the
lithium the most elaborate. Usually, first-time EVers "cheap out" on
their charging equipment, and murder their first set of batteries. So,
it is better to start with a cheap set of flooded lead-acid "training
wheel" batteries; then go to a more expensive set once you know the
ropes a bit better.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes ive called and left a message with them for a return phone call, i
did find the below on thier website..
"The com bars are more securely attached to the arbor, so they will be
less likely to lift. The drive shaft is bored for a pilot bearing and
drilled & tapped for a 5/16 - 18 bolt. The tail shaft also has a 1/4 -
20 bolt hole to mount tach sensors or secure couplers and accessories.
*Again, we have duplicated the ADC 9" mounting bolt pattern allowing
clients to use preexisting mounting adapters.* Class "H" insulation is
used throughout the motor. The drive shaft and tail shaft have standard
keyways cut into them. This motor is also available at a better price
point to end users."
Cwarman
Don Cameron wrote:
Send an email to NetGain, they seem to be pretty responsive.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cwarman
Sent: August 25, 2005 9:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
I guess what im concerned with and maybe i should ask Canev or someone if
the Warp9 will fit right into the Motor mount etc that they made for the ADC
9's they sell..
Anyone have any experience here with this...
CWarman
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
almost the same , the warp 9 is 16.7 long , about 1/2 inch longer
which is becuse the brushes are bigger .
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
They are the same dimensions as ADC, except the Impulse 9" which is
shorter and I have ordered for my car.
Mark Ward
St. Charles,MO
95 Saab 900SE
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
From: Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2005/08/24 Wed AM 08:36:06 EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
Speaking of which , ive read that the WarP 9in DC motor is of the
same dimensions as the ADC9 motor, so im assuming that the motor
mounts in the kits that places like EvAmerica and Canev would fit the
Warp9 ?
Cwarman
.
.
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--- Begin Message ---
There have been experiments (or at least theories) about embedding power
lines in the road and using coils fitted to the underside of vehicles to
pick up power - not over-unity or free energy though! Google "electric
roads" or similar...
Matt
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:38:46 -0400
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: increasing range
>
>> What if we put these devices in our ev's, inductively collecting power
>> [from power lines] to increase range, having a battery backup when
>> needed?
>
> If I understand basic electrical and magnetic field principles correctly,
> you would have to drive right under the power lines, with a coil sliding
> along the line, to pick up any significant amount of energy. That would
> sort of tend to slow down progress, since you'd have to stop at every pole
> and refit the coil. ;-)
>
> True, fluorescent lamps can glow when near power wires, but it's not what
> you'd call usable energy and certainly not enough to power an EV.
>
> When overunity devices appear to work, it's usually the result of incorrect
> observation and careless measurement by a poorly educated experimenter.
>
> Note though that I'm a EE dropout, so others who aced the course may have
> better information.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
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--- Begin Message ---
At 01:00 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
Sam Harper wrote:
>
> I've definately been thread-jacked. :)
You're right! Sam, let's get back to your original questions, instead of
pointless arguments about impractical solutions for you.
Did you get enough useful information (before the AC/DC holy wars) to
help you decide?
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Holy Wars was Megadeth, AC/DC did High Voltage.:)
Sorry, I had to do it.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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Yes, this is BRUSA charger, but it can be any CAN enabled one.
It is used just as a power stage and individual battery modules
take care of the batteries. BRUSA happens to be flexible
enough to allow external control while providing feedback
over CAN what is happening, so the system can learn each
sysle and adapt by starting treatment earlier and earlier
every next cycle.
What I do is when the pack is about full, I "electrically"
remove batteries from the string and keep treating others
until all done. If I start early enough, (when there is no
voltage difference yet but I know it will be), they all come to
full at the same time.
At the moment this is set up to work with 3.6V LiIon cells,
but the principle applies to any battery. Adapting 12V one
requires replacing one component on the PCB.
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I have your dream charger on my bench *now*.
Would that be one of your BRUSA's? Or are you prototyping a charger too?
What else are you working on...?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Actually, with tightly directed microwaves, that's certainly true and
may be promising for some extreme applications. I was certainly
impressed with that model aircraft powered by microwaves, I didn't think
to bring it up. But that type of general omnidirectional broadcasting
in the Tesla stories is still out of the question for the reasons
mentioned- astronomical power requirements and the potential to cook
everything in the area. That story describes a 6 ft antenna, no
transmitter apparent, and an 80 hp motor that was driven for 50 miles at
up to 90 mph. Then the account seems to go downhill, deviating from the
broadcasted wireless power explanation into natual free "aertheric" energy.
Note the question was if it was plausible Tesla could have done this, or
if the story was bunk. I guess as a fan of Tesla I'm a bit tired of the
books which rewrote his work into completely off-the-wall miracles. He
was a remarkable man, did many incredible things, and is very poorly
credited for his contributions to science and engineering. The guys who
started adding on fabricated stories didn't do his legacy any favors IMHO.
Another note from http://www.tfcbooks.com/teslafaq/ on the wireless
electric car story:
It would appear the radiant energy Pierce Arrow story is a
fabrication--mainly because Tesla didn't have a nephew named Peter
Savo. On the other hand, Tesla believed that his system for the
wireless transmission of electrical energy could be used for the
propulsion of aircraft and automobiles. An article that appeared in the
New York Daily News, April 2, 1934 titled "Tesla's Wireless Power Dream
Nears Reality" mentions the planned test run of a "motor car" using
wireless transmission of electrical energy to power the vehicle.
Danny
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Danny and All,
Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Let's not get into the "free energy" discussion again, please.
Regarding Tesla's electric car, IMHO it's a hoax:
http://www.tfcbooks.com/teslafaq/q&a_016.htm
Logically there's no known way he could store or transmit the power to
As in many of your posts here you are not correct. With your record
so far you might want to ask questions rather than keep stating things as facts.
They have transmited enough microwave energy to cars, planes to make
them go. While usually not practical, it does work. And to power a satelite
high alt replacement plane, could be worth i for cell phone, TV, data links,
ect.
Danny
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I am slightly confused here about these Cr-F-Li cells. they are made by
thundersky but are NOT the same as their well known li-ion batteries?
Ive heard much criticism of the thunderskys high internal resistance, is this
also the case with the Cr-F-Li cells?
They appear significantly cheaper than the li-ion cells, but offer similar
performance and spec, also seeming to offer a longer lifespan (quoted at 1100
discharges on one page but >500 on another of the everspring website)
Can anyone clarify about these batteries? Today was the first time I even
heard of Cr-F-Li tech.
I am looking for the most compact battery system I can find, to power a siemens
5105WS12. was even considering li-poly, but the limited lifespan was the last
nail in the coffin there.. big price would be acceptable if I didn't have to
replace them every few years...)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jukka järvinen
Sent: 25 August 2005 18:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Question / Pricing. Now long range EV
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
>> 200 ah pack will weigh under 350 pounds. Real nice in a motorcycle.
>> Work in a larger EV too. YOu'd need to double that to get 1200 amps
200 ah li-co cells give nicely 1200 a. I use 20x200 ah with 1k zilla + 2x
6,7"adc in my road legal MCEV. whole bike is about 260 kgs.
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Lee Hart wrote:
Frankly, I think the VFD (vacuum fluorescent display) is the best choice
for automotive applications from a readability point of view. This is
the bright blue-green glowing display you see in many car dashboards
(including our Prius). However, it's based on vacuum tube technology --
I have a feeling Victor would never stand for it! :-)
I have a VFD based Casio calculator I bought in about 1978 while being
a student. Still have it, use it and prefer to any LCD based ones
I only can find today. Love it the most.
I have absolutely no issues to use VFD display, but I wanted to
take advantage of the color info.
Glancing onto 2 color LED display you know (after 1 day learning
and getting use to it) that green 247 number is volts and red 179
is amps, not the opposite.
With VFDs it's not that obvious.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
I just found a Solectria S-10 Service Manual. If anyone needs a pdf copy of
it, let me know and I'll try to send you a copy of the 2meg file
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Clyde and Everyone,
I guess what im concerned with and maybe i should ask Canev or someone
if the Warp9 will fit right into the Motor mount etc that they made
for the ADC 9's they sell..
Anyone have any experience here with this...
CWarman
Yes, the Impulse is designed as a drop-in replacement for *both* ADC 8"
and 9" motors.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> wireless. :-)
> I have been designing and plotting, but don't have development funds.
> zigbee or 802.11 (cc1010 or cc2420) and a mini web server to allow
> us to check progress of the car that is in the driveway by logging
> into the web page.
Ask Rich Rudman if wireless devices work around his PFC charger. Or
Otmar if they'll work around a 'Zilla in full song...
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Danny Miller wrote:
> There's a few alphanumeric VFDs on the surplus market that's not too
> expensive, but it's not graphical.
VFDs are available in many sizes and styles new (7-segment, 5x7 dot
matrix, fully graphic). If you're buying surplus, your options are
obviously more restricted.
I bought a couple from BG Micro for $15 each. They are 5x7 dot matrix,
16 characters on 1 line, and run on 12vdc at about 150ma.
> Also be aware that a VFD takes a substantial amount of power.
Not really. They usually take around 100ma for the filament (they are
vacuum tubes, after all :-) and 0.1ma for each "on" segment (depends on
the size of the segment; dots are lower, 7-seg bars are higher).
> Here's a cheap 2x20 alphanumeric with a catch -- no data on how to
> run it is available.
VFDs are easy to drive; like multiplexed LEDs. A segment lights if both
its plate and grid are "high" at the same time. Easier than LEDs because
the grids and segments draw very little current and don't need
current-limiting resistors. I haven't looked at these displays, but the
only problem might be if it includes an undocumented driver board. Then
you *do* have a problem figuring out what it does.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
> Regarding Tesla's electric car, IMHO it's a hoax:
> http://www.tfcbooks.com/teslafaq/q&a_016.htm
> Logically there's no known way he could store or transmit the power to
Possibly; but it's more likely that it worked but depended on a "trick"
that he wasn't willing to reveal. My feeling is that he had a "wired
road" where the wires in the fences alongside were the source of the
power via induction. It works, but isn't very efficient and so not cost
effective or practical.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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Brian Staffanson wrote:
> when I first started really thinking about converting my broken
> car to electric, I read about Tesla's electric car. Not knowing
> how he did it, but reading different things, came to the conclusion
> that it wasn't magic, but thought there could be some high powered
> transmitter transmitting power to his car.
Basically, yes; that's how he did it.
> build an indoor raceway with go-karts with a massive transmitter
> transmitting power to the little go-karts.
It can be done. The most obvious method is "conductive coupling" -- a
physical pair of wires connects the car to the roadway. Like what they
use for the "bumper car" amusement rides; a metal floor and ceiling,
with brush contacts to pick up the power. Very simple and efficient over
a small area.
Next best are the buses and trains powered by overhead wires and/or
"live" rails. This has been applied to everything from toy electric
trains and slot cars, to full-size trains and buses. Far easier to set
up than a wire ceiling, but now you're limited to where you can drive.
People also object to the appearance and worry about safety if fools or
wildlife touch those "live" rails or wires.
The other electrical method is "inductive coupling". Basically, you cut
a transformer in two; half goes under or beside the road, and the other
half in the vehicle. Since one half is stationary and the other moving,
it may be easier to think of this as a linear motor that moves in a
straight line instead of around in circles. This method has been used
for high-speed trains and low-speed shuttle buses. It is most efficient
when there is the smallest possible air gap between the two halves of
the transformer/motor. The most sophisticated versions of this float the
vehicle on the magnetic field as well as pulling it along (maglev =
magnetic levitation).
I think Tesla's electric car was inductively coupled. He had the
stationary part of the transformer's wires beside or under the road. The
air gap was far larger than optimal, so his efficiency was probably
terrible. It was probably a high-frequency AC system so he didn't need
the usual iron cores. A neat gimmick, but not practical.
Theoretically, you could use "electrostatic coupling" as well. But this
is even less practical except for toys and tricks. The power transfer
efficiency is just too low.
Besides electrical methods, there are all sorts of potential mechanical
methods. Cable cars, where a moving cable pulls vehicles along.
Pneumatic systems, where cars travel in tubes and are blown along with
air pressure. Gravity systems, like a roller coaster. Even slidewalks,
where the road itself moves and you just stand there. I'm sure there are
more.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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So ... the 200A continuous rating is really conservative? I guess my
question should be: What's the failure mode when exceeding the 200A
rating of the albright reversing contactor? The rating is continuous,
not make/break.
Just seems the motor-side contactor should be considerably beefier
(amp-wise) than the battery-side.
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
The thing with the contactors rating is that in EV's under normal
conductions they are not opened or closed under load , . The one
problem I see it that if you push to much current through them they
might weld together and not open when you want them to . With the
reversing contactor this wouldn't be to bad as you would just go
forward but on the battery side it could be a problem . If you have 2
one on the pos and one on the neg side of you pack , you would be
covered with one not opening . I have had my share of things going
wrong but have never had a problem with this , and use the Albright
sw200 alot.
steve clunn
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:21 AM
Subject: Reversing contactors -- Am I missing something?
As I understand it, for a main contactor, something like the Kilovac
EV200 (Czonka III) is quite capable of handling the Battery -->
controller current. The motor current is considerably higher,
depending on the controller.
The part I don't understand is that the EV200 is rated at 200A
continuous, while the reversing contactors I see available (Albright
SW202) are rated at 250A continuous, 360A intermittent which seems
really really low if you're using something like a Z1K.
Am I missing something fundamental? Are reversing contactors
generally only used for lower-powered vehicles? Or do people simply
run them past their rated current regularly?
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