EV Digest 4658
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 82 Ford EVscort brake problem
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: battery storage charging
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Another newby - 96V Prestolite @ 144V
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NiMH powered Scirocco
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: battery storage charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Regs and bad boys, was: Another newby here
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Wayland Invitational Report,An' Stuff.
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Siemens Motors on EV Trading Post
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Another Newby
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: belt driven ev volkswagen
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 82 Ford EVscort brake problem
by "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Iota DC/DC Decision
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EV wiring question
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: EV photos
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Battery rack techniques
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV identification
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: newbie question
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Solectria E-10 Battery chices
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV wiring question
by "EVdave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV identification
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Solectria E-10 Battery chices
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Another newby here
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Alltrax 7245 controller
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Another newby - 96V Prestolite @ 144V
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Newbie Question: Electric Assist for 1/2 Ton Truck
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Another Newby
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Another newby here
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Sep 2005 at 11:46, Marvin Campbell wrote:
> I think you have to have a certain kind of DC motor and controller to do
> regen.
>
Yes and no.
Series DC motors are common in conversions because they're easy to find
(basically they're forklift motors) and cheap, and because the controllers
for them are also relatively simple and cheap. However, they're not well
suited to regen. The regen process itself with series motors is rather a
challenge to control. It can be done but it takes considerable effort - I
mean both for the builder and the controller.
With an induction AC motor, or PM or separately excited DC motor, the
controller is more complex to begin with, but adding regen is almost
trivial. I'm pretty sure the old Soleq systems were sep-ex.
I believe there is a Curtis regen controller for series motors, but it's not
sold in the US nor is it sold to hobbyists. From what I understand, they
will only sell it to system integrators because they're worried about
liability.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Sep 2005 at 14:55, Danny Miller wrote:
> The main benefit is carbons, unlike alkalines, can't leak and damage a device
> if it gets run down; they don't have a liquid electrolyte.
I sure remember a lot of them leaking when I was using them as a kid. I got
in big trouble for one which left a permanent stain on the floor.
The name "dry cell" is something of a misnomer. They are dry only in the
sense that a gel cell is, compared to a flooded lead acid cell. "Dry cells"
actually DO have a liquid electrolyte: ammonium chloride solution. However,
it's absorbed into manganese dioxide and graphite to make a paste. (This is
rather similar to the way the sulfuric acid in gel cells is absorbed into
silica gel.)
The discharge reaction in a carbon-zinc cell oxidizes the zinc electrode as
the cell is used. This means that the cell can is literally consumed, which
is why they can leak when they're flat.
The cheap cells (then made in Japan), and Rayovac cells in the F size,
actually just put cardboard sleeves around the zinc canister. These had
barely enough zinc to support the reaction. They almost inevitably leaked
when flat, or when run mostly flat and allowed to sit and self-discharge for
a few more months.
The big (then US) manufacturers of flashlight size cells (Eveready, Rayovac,
and Mallory) claimed that theirs were "leakproof." They accomplished this by
enclosing the zinc canister in (IIRC) a steel one. Some cells still
eventually leaked, though, because the steel would rust after many years.
Obviously none of the primary cells is suited to running a road EV. However
I'm reminded of a conversation I had many years ago with a fellow who was
involved in designing a sort of an EV - an underwater target drone for the
US Navy. They needed high specific energy, so they were fitting these
^targets^ with expensive silver-zinc rechargeable batteries! I wondered at
the time why they weren't using manganese-alkaline batteries, which if I'm
not mistaken, have a specific energy close to silver-zinc's (120 vs. 130
Wh/kg) and are a LOT cheaper. After all, this is an EV that's designed to
have only one run, so why use a secondary battery at all? If the target
survived, they could just replace the battery.
I suspect the reason is that manganese-alkaline batteries don't do well with
high current discharges. That was many years ago, and primary cells have
come a long way since then. I'd be surprised if they weren't using some type
of lithium primary cell these days.
Which makes me wonder if that might not be an interesting strategy for some
very ambitious EV dragster designer. These days primary lithium cells range
from 200 to 700 Wh/kg! I've seen specific power figures in the 100 W/kg
range, and specific energy figures in the 200+ Wh/kg range, for lithium
sulfur dioxide and lithium manganese dioxide cells. I don't know how
available those are to mere mortals such as us, though, as they seem to be
mfg. mostly for the military. And of course you have the disposal problem,
since each pack would be usable for only one run. But if you're doing a
Bonneville run - hmmm.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm wrote:
> My 96V Prestolite MTC-4001 *loves* 144V :)
That brings up a good point. There are *two* common Prestolite MTC-4001
motors. One is 48v, and the other is 96v. I wouldn't try putting 144v on
the 48v Prestolite!
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> So a fixed gear system like the single speed gearbox Solectria
> AT120 found in the Force is a compromise because it's fixed to
> only one gear ratio like 10:1.
Correct. It's like this. Voltage=speed and current=torque. Your battery
pack voltage sets the maximum motor rpm. Your controller's current limit
sets your maximum torque.
With a fixed gear ratio (no transmission), your max motor rpm and
maximum torque convert directly to max wheel speed and wheel torque. So,
your top speed and accelleration are fixed.
With a high enough pack voltage and a high enough controller current
limit (and a motor that can stand these values), you can drive any speed
you like, and have enough torque to climb any hill and accellerate as
fas as you want. This is what most of the auto company factory EVs did.
High voltage packs, high current controller, big motors, and no
transmission.
But if you have a low pack voltage, you can't get a high enough motor
rpm. If you have a weak controller, you can't get a high enough torque.
So you use a transmission, and shift to get *either* speed or torque
(not both at the same time. This is what all ICE cars do, and what most
hobby EVs do because the transmission is already there, and using it
lets you get by with a lower pack voltage, lower current controller, and
smaller motor. (I.e. it's cheaper).
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> They still sell them ironically enough under the name "heavy duty".
Marketeers often take their product's worst feature and put it in the
name. Then they can't be sued for false advertising.
> They're actually still used for the batteries included in products
> which already have batteries in them when you buy them (somewhat rare
> nowadays).
Yes; because they are dirt cheap. Often the cheapest kind you can get.
> The main benefit is carbons, unlike alkalines, can't leak and damage
> a device if it gets run down; they don't have a liquid electrolyte.
Oh yes they can! It's the carbon-zinc cells that leak when they run
down. That's why so many old flashlights and other gadgets have ruined
battery boxes. Basically, the outside can is the zinc plate. As the cell
runs down, it corrodes away the zinc. When dead, it has corroded right
through it!
> They also have a lower rate of self-discharge and if the device is
> going to be stored for years carbons might outlast the alkalines.
The other way around. Alkalines have a longer shelf life. The old carbon
zinc cells were the ones that you could preserve their life by
refrigerating them. With alkaline cells, it isn't necessary -- they'll
last 5+ years even if you don't.
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:42 AM 3/09/05 -0700, Purch wrote:
<snip>
If I go to a higher voltage, I may go to AGM bats, and I accept that that
means some kind of battery regulating system. After reading John
Wayland's explanation of bad boy charging (in particular at 144V) I'm
curious if Rudman Regs can be used with a bad boy system?
Hi Purch and all
Off the shelf - no, or at least not very well. But modified regulators that
instead of flashing a light when they start regulating, can have an
optocoupler (an optically-coupled transistor, turned on by a light inside
the package) output. Then when the first regulator flashes, you can do
something to turn back the charging rate to a current that the regulators
are happy with. Lee Harts' cheap-and-cheerful regulator design have light
globes as bypass loads, so in a dark battery box the lights can be 'seen'
by a light sensor/switch.
A 'bad boy' is a manually monitored charging method. A true 'bad-boy' has
an amp meter, a rectifier on a heatsink and add extension leads to drop the
current back. There are a number of permutations of modified bad boy
chargers - an automatic permutation is required for regulators to be
useful. If you search the archives you will find a bunch of descriptions:
"bad-boy with manners" etc.
Probably the most effective way of semi-automating a bad-boy system in my
opinion (which I'm unlikely to ever try, since our 'mains' is 240V) is as
follows, but unless you can 'acumulate' most of the bits, it may be cheaper
to buy an off-the-shelf charger:
You would need a motorised variac (variable transformer), just a small one.
You need a transformer to boost the 'mains' to bring it up to pack voltage,
whose secondary is capable of taking maximum charge current - eg: you may
need to boost up to 24V at 15A, so the transformer needs to be (24 * 15)
360VA [the variac needs to be able to handle this, too]. You need two
current-sensing switches, for the upper and lower limits of current range
(or if you are disciplined enough, just one and back the variac off before
you start and hope the current doesn't run away), and a voltage switch to
stop charging at full voltage. In addition a rectifier on a heatsink,
switches, contactor, breaker etc.
It would work this way - the transformer secondary is connected in series
and in-phase to the mains (out of phase reduces the volts). The variac is
connected across the inbound mains and feeds the primary of the
transformer. When the current drops below the switch setting, the variac is
driven up until the switch re-operates. The second switch is for
high-current setting and drives the variac down. Regulators would switch in
lower switch settings. At full voltage detection the system either
de-powers or drives the variac fully down. Someone with a little
electronics experience could use a current transmitter, which gives 4 to 20
milliamps or 0 to 10 volts as a signal over the AC amperage range. This is
simple to make a threshold detector electronic unit to select the switching
settings. We are using a 4..20mA transmitter in conjunction with a PLC for
current management in a mobile home with a 24V/1000Ah battery pack &
charger, 'mains' aircon and a bunch of other stuff.
My EV charging control system will be using Rudman regs with optocoupled
outputs, each output going to an input of a low-cost PLC. Once the first
regulator flashes the PLC cuts back the charge rate, once all have flashed
at least once a timer starts and runs on for (x) minutes. I am still
deciding wether to then inhibit the regulators and do a current-interrupt
overcharge for a couple of Ah. Maybe use a counter and on the 5th or 10th
charge cycle do CI. This way I get the sophistication of a 'good' charger
added to a dumb-as-a-brick transformer charger (and gets best value out of
the regulators).
Just my $0.02, and appologies for the length.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sep 3, 2005, at 2:58 AM, Ken Trough wrote:
>
> > John Wayland in White Zombie did quite well over
> three or four runs on
> > the night, with no breakage. He turned the best
> smoke show of the
> > evening, lined up against a Vette, and blew the
> Vette's doors off
> > (though he red lit that run). Mr. Corvette was
> mighty impressed. John
> > turned a 12.87 on one of his runs, and on his last
> run he even broke
> > 100 on a half charged pack getting him into the
> Madman 100mph club for
> > 2005! John remarked that he was satisfied with
> White Zombie's
> > performance.
Hi EVerybody;
That's the understatement of the week! John and
Jim Husted were literly
"
dancing in the street, well, strip, at the "Siamese"
motor's run in the Zombie! After all, it was the first
run, of this setup. Was glad to be there, as I'm at EV
Central, John's using his computer to post and wade
through about 1200 messages!I'm on more than one List!
Portland International Raceway is a great setup, where
else can you go to the races by trolley car?Well, the
Lite Rail Max system, recently expanded. See Corvettes
getting blown away and trolley foto runbys at the
same place<g>!
The magic continues tomorrow at Woodburn, so come
on out! John's gunna turn up the amps, he held them
back to 900 battery amps last nite. So he will handily
break 100 mph, 6tomorrow. It is so heartwarming to see
the EV's doing closer to their potential.
Seems like it is a timely thing as gas goes past
3 bux a gal, our EV time is here, now.I said that
YEARS ago, when gas was going toward a buck a gal. I
guess that NO gas or rationed gas will help the EV
cause?
Will start my eastward EVent trip back to CT
tomorrow, hoping to be able to get gas coming back. No
problem going, lottsa gas, at gas stations and fast
food places<g>!Be stopping off hrer ajn' there on the
trip back, including Warfield Electric, getta load of
motors being rebuilt, and adapting a fewnew ones for
stock, for you east coasters. A Limit here as Prei are
lousy trucks, botton out pretty easy! Cheaper than
paying freight!
Seeya
Bob,,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I noticed on the EV Trading post Siemens 1PV5133-4WS20 motors for sale for
$2000 each. Supposedly they are from the Ford Ranger EV and they have 140
of them.
The picture shows the output shaft obscured, and I wonder if it is that
strange twisted spline.
Does anyone know more info on these motors? Will they hook right up to a
Simovert or a Simotion controller?
thanks
Don
P.S. here is the link:
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/index.php?method=showdetails&list=adver
tisement&rollid=359&fromfromlist=classifiedscategory&fromfrommethod=showhtml
list&fromfromid=12
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks David for a valuable advice for us newbies,
are you talking here about lead acid batteries only, or lithium ones
also? Lithium batteries require BMS anyway, right? Doesn´t it take care
of the batteries charging/discharging rate or whatever...so wouldn't
they be better for a beginner (although more expensive) than good old
lead batteries?
Osmo (Finland)
3.9.2005 kello 20:12, David Roden kirjoitti:
On 3 Sep 2005 at 9:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the tip - hopefully this will go out in the right format!
Perfect - thanks!
I think I
find myself in the same position as a lot of first-timers - wanting
to try out
all the cool toys. And AGM's are waaay cooler than golf cart bats.
I've been involved in EVs since the late 1980s, and was interested in
them
beginning in the late 1960s, so I've seen a lot of water go under the
bridge. There are some here whose EV involvement goes much farther
back
than mine, too.
I've watched interest in EVs wax and wane over the years. In each
peak, a
small but significant number of people acquire EVs for the first time.
Far
too few of them stick with EVs.
Since real battery management systems are practically nonexistent even
now,
too many of these new EVers trash their first batteries in a year or
less.
This means an unexpected expense of anwhere from $500 to $3000.
Suddenly
this economical commuter they've been bragging about to friends and
relatives doesn't look so economical any more. They feel bad, and
look bad.
Many times they swallow hard and pony up the cash.
But then it happens again.
At that point the EV is usually parked in the garage, where it sits,
maybe
for years. Finally they put an ad in the paper (these days on Ebay):
"Electric car, less than 1000 miles, great shape, needs batteries."
The car
sells for a fraction of the new price. When his friends ask after the
EV,
the old owner shakes his head and says "EVs are a great idea, and I
liked
mine while it worked, but I don't think they're quite ready for prime
time."
Let's face it, your enthusiasm for EVs can really take a hit when you
sink
$2-3k into a battery only to have it die in a year or so. That's what
I'm
trying to prevent for you and other newbies.
But as long as you recognize the rather high probability that you WILL
drop
that much money on this truck, maybe repeatedly, until you get the
hang of
making those AGMs last ... then go for it. But please don't cheap out
on
the charger; that will make things even worse. I don't think it's out
of
line to pay about as much for the charger as for two or three packs of
batteries.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
> http://www.e-volks.com
> The above listed web site doesn`t list the belt driven vw...
Rich
> This should do it. LR........
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:08 PM
> Subject: belt driven ev volkswagen
>
>
>> Hello, does anyone have the website for the belt driven volkswagen ev ??
>> The ev engine was mounted beside the tranny and driven by belt and I think
>> he wanted 500 bucks for the adapter.
>>
>> Thanks Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, it was converted by a college level auto shop instructor. I had to upgrade
several things on it since it was converted in 1998. I wish there was an easy
way to add regen to this DC system. Gabe.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marvin Campbell<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 11:46 AM
Subject: 82 Ford EVscort brake problem
Mine is a 120v system with a GE DC Sepex motor/Soleq Sepex controller with
regen.
I think you have to have a certain kind of DC motor and controller to do
regen.
I've never run a Curtis controller so I can't answer that last one, but I'm
pretty sure your basic DC systems do not do regen.
Was your car made by Soleq?
Marv
> From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:29:17 -0700
> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: 82 Ford EVscort brake problem
>
> Is your EV system an AC system w/ designed in regen braking? Mine is DC, no
> regen. Can regen be implemented on a 96v DC system w/ a Curtis controller?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've heard that the Iota 120 version works at a very high voltage. The
220version works at 144 I've heard. What is the consensis? Should a 144v
vehicle get the 220 or 120 version? My Controller came and it is rated by
the rebuilder at 700amps.120 to 144vdc.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If there¹s anyone on this list who can answer this wiring question, I¹d
appreciated it very much.
I¹m wiring my garage for my soon coming Solectria E-10. The requirements for
the on-board charger is 20A 240V. I was thinking of making a long chord that
I can use both at home and at job sites that are able to provide me with
standard 30A dryer outlets. For this convenience, instead of installing the
normal 20A 240V outlet in my garage, I was thinking of installing a dryer
outlet, however keeping the breaker at 20A for proper safety. The question
is: my outlet can be wired so that the L shaped slot on the outlet is a
ground, thus providing a proper ground for the truck. But I believe a
typical dryer outlet¹s L shaped slot is the neutral. So I¹m wondering if
that would either be completely unsafe or if it would work ok. Any words
from the wise and experienced. I won¹t do this part of the wiring until I¹m
sure how to proceed. Thanks...Jacob Harris
Sebastopol, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's another concept car, designed by Daimler-Chrysler, with a low Cd
based on the shape of a boxfish:
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050607.004
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
I spent most of today making battery racks. This is either the
hardest,slowest part or it just feels like it cause I want it done!
I was just wondering if there is a better way. I am using exide orbitals
so I took some 1-14x1/8 angle iron, cut out some corner notches and
folded and welded them into rectangles. This part is really fast.
Because I wanted to bolt them down thru the holes @3.1 centers, I made
little cross bars of 1/2 by 1 channel upside down with 5/16 holes in
them. I can't get to the bottom of most the racks once installed and I
think the 1/8 wall isn't enough for a thread so I welded a 5/16 nut
inside the channel.
That last part is the tedium that has me wondering if there is a better
way. 25 batteries = 25 bars = 50 nuts = 100 little tack welds, then
weld the bar to the racks... at least another day. ( I weld slow)
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--- Begin Message ---
I believe its the one that's about to come out ,also its not an article
sorry ,its a letter and it will be in letters to the editor.
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: EV identification
Did he happen to mention which issue of Greencar Journal it will appear
in?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Cool, a newbie in my own backyard. Thanks for reading the archives and
purchasing EV books before adding to the incredibly huge amount of list
traffic lately! Starting from last Sunday, looking at the previous seven
days, we had what might be a new record of 109 posts per day, with 93 posts
per day the previous seven days. Prior to the last two weeks, the list
would average 50-60 posts per day over one week. So could the gas prices
have something to do with the recent list traffic?
Anyway, I had heard that a conversion would take between 100 to 200 hours.
Now I'm not familiar with the 914 kit and if it includes prefabed battery
racks, but my truck conversion took 150 hours of work including building
the racks. That 150 hours was actual work, and didn't include design or
re-do work. I hadn't even joined this list when I started my first
conversion, but joined later thanks to the prodding of John Bryan! I first
met John at the NEDRA event at Bandimere Speedway back around '99... has it
been that long? As Bruce and Peter mentioned, you could buy a used
conversion, but not a 96V system with a Cursit if you want to drive the
Interstates around Northglenn! You could talk to people in our local club,
the Denver Electric Vehicle Council, to see what might be available in CO
that is used, or utilize our help to do a conversion. You can always farm
out anything you don't feel comfortable doing in a conversion, and you can
get plenty of help from the members here, both on and off list, so by all
means, buy used or start a conversion and look towards getting the EV grin
you might have heard about! Also, there is a DEVC meeting this Tuesday in
The Peoples Republic of Boulder if you can make it, and I'll have the
eeelectric truck there.
Think globally by driving electrically,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:40:47 -0600
>From: Mike Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I just signed up for this list recently. I've been searching the archives
>for some basic information and have ordered a couple of the recommended EV
>books. I have a simple (but nebulious) question to start me off.... How
>difficult is it to do an EV conversion?
>
>Background: I'm considering purchasing an ElectroAuto VoltsPorsche Custom
>Kit and a Porsche 914. This looks the absolute easiest to me. I have little
>mechanical experience besides some basic work on VW's many years ago and
>doing simple things like changing oil and such. I'm really trying to get
>just a rough idea if it is even going to be possible for me to do or not,
>just to understand if it is something I should consider pursuing more. It is
>something I've been interested in for quite awhile and am finally to a point
>where I might be able to afford to drop a little money for a project like
>this. I don't mind spending time on this, ie. I'm not expecting to do this
>in a week, more like 6-12 months part time hopefully.
>
>Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Davis
>Northglenn, CO
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello fellow Ev'ers. Has any Solectria E-10 owners had good experiences with
other batteries besides Solectria's recommended Deka Dominators? I know that
Azure recommends them for convenience (you don't/can't water them), and for
safety (in a serious accident there's very little danger of acid flying
around to the passengers). But the disadvantages seem to be higher cost and
less range. So, I was wondering if any of you folks were privy to a better
replacement for this truck? Mine are wired as 23 group 27 in a single string
for a total of 276V. Thanks for responding.
Jacob Harris
Sebastopol, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
neutral and ground are really the same thing... open up a circuit breaker
box and you will see they are both put to the same place....... but that is
the only place they should be the same.... its an old electricians rule,
unwritten, to treat the neutral and the ground differently every where
else... as far as the dryer goes... there is NOTHING, 220 in your home
that doesnt have a ground... so if you have the 3 prong, the third is a
ground, not a neutral..... the E10, needs two hot and a ground,..... so
you will be fine hooking it up as such........
just a side note... i have an e10... i made a bunch of adapter cords...
about 1 foot in length...., different type of plugs... all to the typical
220/20amp socket...... i also bought a small box and put a 20amp GFI in it,
going into the box is a 220/20amp plug, coming out is a 220/20amp socket....
so in strange places, its the adapter to the box, to the extension
cord.....works really well.. plus, while im not an electrician, i have done
a lot of industrial electrical work.... it is nicer to know, that the
weakest link is the 20amp gfi.... just incase any inquisitive kids wanna
play....... :(
dave banas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 11:44 PM
Subject: EV wiring question
If there¹s anyone on this list who can answer this wiring question, I¹d
appreciated it very much.
I¹m wiring my garage for my soon coming Solectria E-10. The requirements
for
the on-board charger is 20A 240V. I was thinking of making a long chord
that
I can use both at home and at job sites that are able to provide me with
standard 30A dryer outlets. For this convenience, instead of installing
the
normal 20A 240V outlet in my garage, I was thinking of installing a dryer
outlet, however keeping the breaker at 20A for proper safety. The question
is: my outlet can be wired so that the L shaped slot on the outlet is a
ground, thus providing a proper ground for the truck. But I believe a
typical dryer outlet¹s L shaped slot is the neutral. So I¹m wondering if
that would either be completely unsafe or if it would work ok. Any words
from the wise and experienced. I won¹t do this part of the wiring until
I¹m
sure how to proceed. Thanks...Jacob Harris
Sebastopol, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it's a Vector, Google "Vector Twin Turbo"
or, it could just be a lamborghini or a kit.
http://www.autozine.org/strange_car/strange_50.htm
http://www.vectornut.com/Vector.html
http://www.chem.ucla.edu/~na/vector.html
http://www.mclellansautomotive.com/sales-lit/bymake/vector/index.shtml
Ryan Wright wrote:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/616b.jpg
>
> Look at the white car on the left. Anyone know what that is?
>
> -Ryan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am not a Solectria owner, but you might look into this battery. Looks like a
direct replacement for the Deka 8G27M (same terminals and everything).
The Interstate or C&D Dynasty DCS-88BT (both the same battery) 88 amp hour
group 27.
Here are links to the spec sheets:
http://www.ibsa.com/www_2001/content/products/specs/dcs88.pdf
http://www.dynastybattery.com/cd_dyn/products/batteries/dcs/dcs88l.htm
If you shop around, you may be able to find these a little cheaper than the
Deka batteries. I would expect to pay about $110 or less.
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
-------------- Original message --------------
> Hello fellow Ev'ers. Has any Solectria E-10 owners had good experiences with
> other batteries besides Solectria's recommended Deka Dominators? I know that
> Azure recommends them for convenience (you don't/can't water them), and for
> safety (in a serious accident there's very little danger of acid flying
> around to the passengers). But the disadvantages seem to be higher cost and
> less range. So, I was wondering if any of you folks were privy to a better
> replacement for this truck? Mine are wired as 23 group 27 in a single string
> for a total of 276V. Thanks for responding.
> Jacob Harris
> Sebastopol, CA
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <
. Therefore, you can add regulators and they
won't burn up. Even the simple little zener-lamp regulators I sell will
work.
This is the first I've heard of a Lee Hart zener lamp regulator ,,,, Are you
personaly making these ? If the price is righ I'll take 20 , I also like
your battery ballancer and think I could sell them , but I can't push them
as I can't get them .
Steve Clunn
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Robert,
> has anyone ever successfully used a Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp
> controller in their road going car that weighs roughly 780 kg.
> I am still thinking whether to go curtis.
I don't think the choice between a Curtis or Alltrax is going to compromise
your conversion, as I suspect the limiting factor will be battery side (ie. the
72 volts of SCS225 batteries).
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm writes:
> the Zilla Z1K. I have the valet mode (second set of programmed settings
> on the Zilla which is activated by toggling a switch) set to the same
> voltage (144V), but only 500 amps. Man, is that no fun! Teenagers
> around the neighborhood really get a kick out it when I start
> accelerating in valet mode, and pop it into normal mode which
> is set for the full 1000 amps. They call it the "power switch".
Hehe... here it gets called the "push-to-pass" :-)
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hate to say this, but electric drive is probably not the solution to
your problem.
As I'm sure you know, an F150 is a large truck and it takes a lot of power
to make it move at 65 mph. Doing that continuously for ANY distance is
going to use a lot of energy (compared to say, a Ford Escort)
A simple rule of thumb is that it takes approx. 600 lbs of Lead-Acid
batteries to move a vehicle the same distance as the vehicle will travel
on a gallon of gas (this is a rule of thumb, not a precise calculation)
So if you figure 600 lbs of lead, 150 lbs or more worth of electric motor
(it's going to take a big motor for all that truck PLUS a trailer) and
about 1,000 lbs or trailer. Your trailer is going to weigh close to a ton
and will give you about as much extra range as you truck will go on a
gallon of gas when pulling a 2,000 lbs trailer. That's what? 10-12 miles?
Sure you can add more batteries, but you'll get diminishing returns. I.e.
another 600 lbs will add another 9-11 miles, the next 600 lbs will add
8-10 miles, etc. Again these or rough estimates.
And when the batteries run out, you still have to lug around the trailer,
so your gas milage will suck.
You would probably be better off taking your truck to a licensed converter
and having it modified so it can run on both gasoline and propane.
Probably cheaper in the long run and your gas milage won't suffer when/if
you run out of propane (which is pretty widely available these days).
> Hello,
>
> I am interested in alternative means of power, even more so since the
> price of fuel is going out of sight. I have looked at a number of
> conversions and the one I keep coming back to is electric power. I
> currently have an F150 and use it work. I would like to build a small
> trailer that houses an electric motor and assist in acceleration and
> primarily responsible for sustaining speeds of 45-65 mph. I am aware of
> the range by researching different websites. Some question that come to
> mind are what size motor?
> Given the motor size, how many batteries? How much horsepower is needed to
> maintain 45-65 mph. Are their axles or cv joints availalable to mount
> directly to the motor. Eventually, convert powersteering and a/c
> compressor Electric driven. I have many other questions but would like to
> start with these. Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jrod
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not aware of any off the shelf BMS for lithium batteries, so you are
going to be on the cutting edge here and have to build your own BMS. If
you get it wrong, the results can be catostropic -Lithium batteries have a
tendacy to burn/explode when charged incorrectly.
Expect to pay *many* thousands of dollars for the Lithium batteries, a few
thousand more for the charger and probably another thousand or so for the
BMS.
If you have that kind of cheese lying around, then I say go for it. Let
us know how it works out.
FWIW, Sealed Lead-Acids already have several proven BMS systems available
and the batteries are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than Lithium batteries. Might
be a good middle-of-the-road solution.
> Thanks David for a valuable advice for us newbies,
>
> are you talking here about lead acid batteries only, or lithium ones
> also? Lithium batteries require BMS anyway, right? Doesn´t it take care
> of the batteries charging/discharging rate or whatever...so wouldn't
> they be better for a beginner (although more expensive) than good old
> lead batteries?
>
> Osmo (Finland)
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If I go to a higher voltage, I may go to AGM bats, and I accept that that
> means some kind of battery regulating system. After reading John
> Wayland's explanation of bad boy charging (in particular at 144V) I'm
> curious if Rudman Regs can be used with a bad boy system?
Not without adding enough circuitry that it will no longer be a "bad-boy"
charger. The essence of a bad-boy is that it has zero regulation or
control except manual control by adding/removing resistance (extension
cords)
Bad-boys are really only suitable for occasionaly use when you are willing
to babysit the charging process.
If you don't want to put the effort into occasionally cleaning & watering
flooded batteries, then you probably don't want to put the continuous,
daily, effort into babysitting a bad-boy charger. This is not a bad
thing, I don't like babysitting chargers either.
Do yourself a favor and spend the money on a good charger. Even though
Rudman's PFC charger is a bit more expensive than most charger available,
it's probably the best bang for the buck/boost available.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
