EV Digest 4659
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV identification
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Alltrax 7245 controller
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery rack techniques
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Another Newby
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Home Garage Lift (For EV Conversion)
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) FW: Crushable bumper idea?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery rack techniques
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Home Garage Lift (For EV Conversion)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) FW: Crushable bumper idea?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Kelvin connection
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: belt driven ev volkswagen
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wayland Invitational Report
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Shunt motor regen setup
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery rack techniques
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV wiring question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Lee Hart's Regulator and Battery Balancer (was Another newby here)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Battery rack techniques
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery rack techniques
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV wiring question
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Battery question (again)
by Pascal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller, Batt choice, 6 or 12v batts
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:09 AM 4/09/05 -0700, you wrote:
I think it's a Vector, Google "Vector Twin Turbo"
or, it could just be a lamborghini or a kit. <snipped links>
Um, no front wheel arches would seem to preclude that. Or pretty much any
4-wheel car, kit or otherwise. That to me looks like a 3-wheeler, any other
suggestions?.
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/616b.jpg
>
> Look at the white car on the left. Anyone know what that is?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Clauddio,
Man is Les efficient!. I got the car to him on saturday morning, and by
sunday arvo, he has made the motor mount, installed the motor, got the power
plug into the fuel cap!. Fantastic bloke!.
IN terms of batteries, i really do not want to go 8 volts, i can't afford
the extra weight. And after heaps of surfing on various manufacturers site,
the trojans SCS225 are still the number one in terms of capacity and minimum
weight.
Anyway i hope the SCS225 will go the distance. They should!, I really want
some battery curves on the voltage at various DOD for that particular
battery.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Robert,
> IN terms of batteries, i really do not want to go 8 volts, i
> can't afford the extra weight. And after heaps of surfing on various
> manufacturers site, the trojans SCS225 are still the number one in terms of
> capacity and minimum weight.
Appreciate your reasons for selecting the SCS225s. Just highlighting, with
respect to your original question regarding the Alltrax, that you'll have
trouble meeting the max ratings of the controller (on the battery side at
least) without quickly destroying those 130ah SCS225s.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
Well, you have now made racks out of steel, so continued that way if you are
just about completed. Be sure to coated all this steel with a rubber coating.
I used the tool coating compound that is design to dip your handles of the
tools in. If you look at the specs., this can be used for coating the battery
terminals too. You can get this compound from Home Depot.
First paint all the steel with epoxy appliance paint and than rubber coated it.
The epoxy appliance paint comes in spray cans and does not need a primer. You
can also get this from Home Depot. It makes the rubber compound to attach
better.
The reason for coating the steel is to insulated it from the batteries. No
matter how clean your batteries are, or may look clean, there will be voltage
tracking across the surface of the batteries. It increases when you charge
them. If you have 200 volts of batteries and the charger is at 240 volts, you
can have a potential of 240 volts from the surface of the batteries to the
steel rack or to the frame of the car.
Could used insulating rubber donuts to mounted this rack to the car. You can
get these at any auto parts store. These are design for motor mounts.
Also when you layout your battery pattern in the rack, it is best not to loop
back where the two end batteries are together. Meaning you could have 200
volts between two batteries that are next to each other. When charging you
will have arc over between batteries with that much voltage difference.
To check to see if you get any arc over, Charge at a low ampere and turn off
the lights. I seem arc over in steel racks that had only epoxy paint on them.
Another way to do this, but it is very time consuming and will take a long time
to do, is to make battery boxes.
I purchase sheets of fiberglass that is 1/4 inch thick by 4 foot wide by 8 foot
long from a fiberglass company down the street from me. I could had them made
it into any dimension I wanted.
I cut the fiber glass with a heavy duty hand held jig saw into the sizes I
need. One side of the fiberglass sheets are smooth which faces inside and one
side is rough which faces outward. I assemble the box which is 6 feet long by
4 feet wide and 1 foot high. It has one cross panel separating the box into
two compartments for added strength.
Install a 2 by 2 inch angle flange around the top edge which was made out of
fiberglass by the fiberglass company, for a surface contact for hinge covers
and a ribbed gasket.
When assembling the sheets into the box, leave about a 1/4 inch space at each
corner and 45 degree all the edges. The side sheets set on top of the bottom
sheet which extends about 2 inches past the side sheets.
All the sheet edges are than taper sanded on the inside before you do the final
assemble. The box shape is held together with steel angle and clamps while you
fiberglass all the joints, then they are removed.
Heavy duty fiber glass cloth is wrap around the joints on the outside of the
boxes only which is build up to 1/4 inch thick making the joints about 1/2
thick which tapers down to 1/4 inch.
The inside is smooth out with fiber glass putty compound that comes in fiber
type and than a final coat of cream type using a wide putty knife. Something
like sheet rock finishing. I took a smooth aluminum 2 x 2 inch by 12 inch angle
and press that into the corners which smooth out the fiberglass compound in one
past.
Coat the entire inside of the box and cover with the epoxy coating kits that is
used on sinks and showers that you can get at Home Depot.
These boxes are sized, so the batteries have 1/8 inch space between batteries
and 1/4 to 1/2 inch space between the box sides or more if you want to slide in
battery warmers.
My first set of batteries had these spaces caulk with neoprene rubber that came
in caulking guns. This is what holds them from moving around. My next set of
batteries, I did not seal them. My batteries fit tight together and install
1/2 thick neoprene rubber strip all round the outside edge, which covers the
heating round wire that I have install on the inside wall of the box.
The batteries are setting on a 1/2 thick bed of baking soda which keeps these
battery bottoms from rubbing and keep them very clean.
Another advantage of battery boxes, is that you can have a filter air inlet
and exhaust outlet using a totally enclosed all plastic fan that is about 100
CFM. Connect these up with only flexible heavy duty PVC 1/4 thick pipe which
is acid proof. Thin dryer type or other air hose will come apart.
My exhaust exits like a exhaust pipe of which, if I am doing balance charging
inside a closed building, I can attach and run out the exhaust to the outside.
I have been installing my batteries this way since 1975 and they stay in place.
Maybe the only time the may come out is, if you slam the car upside down to
make them come out.
Yes, it's a lot of work, but try not to do it all at once. It took me a year,
to design, plan, find source of supply, gather all the materials, tools, make a
work space and than to get started on this project, which at times take me
several days or even weeks to get going.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 3:35 PM
Subject: Battery rack techniques
I spent most of today making battery racks. This is either the
hardest,slowest part or it just feels like it cause I want it done!
I was just wondering if there is a better way. I am using exide orbitals
so I took some 1-14x1/8 angle iron, cut out some corner notches and
folded and welded them into rectangles. This part is really fast.
Because I wanted to bolt them down thru the holes @3.1 centers, I made
little cross bars of 1/2 by 1 channel upside down with 5/16 holes in
them. I can't get to the bottom of most the racks once installed and I
think the 1/8 wall isn't enough for a thread so I welded a 5/16 nut
inside the channel.
That last part is the tedium that has me wondering if there is a better
way. 25 batteries = 25 bars = 50 nuts = 100 little tack welds, then
weld the bar to the racks... at least another day. ( I weld slow)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:53 AM 9/4/2005, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
I'm not aware of any off the shelf BMS for lithium batteries, so you are
going to be on the cutting edge here and have to build your own BMS. If
you get it wrong, the results can be catostropic -Lithium batteries have a
tendacy to burn/explode when charged incorrectly.
Actually, the EVBMS group came up with a LiIon BMS design. I even
have spare PC Boards for it.
It's still just a "hobbyiest" grade setup, and is non-trivial to assemble.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What do you folks use to lift the glider for your home garage
conversions?
I was looking at a scissor lift
http://www.americanautomotiveequipment.com/pages/831668/index.htm but it
is pricy at $1,000. It is nice that it lifts pretty high, not sure
about the stability though.
Thanks for all of your help,
Noel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
_____________________________________________
From: stu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 10:36 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Crushable bumper idea?
Imagine a few dozen empty beer cans placed horizontally between 2 plates.
Upon impact, these cans will crush and they will decelerate the main vehicle
body.
Their weight would be insignificant but I believe that they might be very
effective in reducing bodily injury.
A bonus is that the cost of replacement after an accident is something to
celebrate.
I'll drink to that!
BoyntonStu
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--- Begin Message ---
I know what you mean Jeff...
I am doing a pack that has 20 bats, T-125's, in it. There are 5 rows of 4. Like
you, I am using angle iron, building a cage with cross pieces on the bottom to
support the weight of the batteries. I still haven't decided to use nuts and
all thread, I just don't weld on all those nuts. So I think I can make a bar to
hold them from the top and then bolt it down to the top sides of the cage.
I'm planning to have 1 1/2" of insulation and then use Coroplast as a
protective membrane to package the batteries. But I still haven't resolved how
to circulate air around the batteries for cooling. I may try and incorporate
Victor's idea of have a vent at the bottom front and rear so air flows under
the batteries.
Luckily my other 10 bats fit (with lots of room to spare) the old battery box
that was originally with the truck when it was a US Electric.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 2:35 PM
Subject: Battery rack techniques
>I spent most of today making battery racks. This is either the
> hardest,slowest part or it just feels like it cause I want it done!
>
> I was just wondering if there is a better way. I am using exide orbitals
> so I took some 1-14x1/8 angle iron, cut out some corner notches and
> folded and welded them into rectangles. This part is really fast.
> Because I wanted to bolt them down thru the holes @3.1 centers, I made
> little cross bars of 1/2 by 1 channel upside down with 5/16 holes in
> them. I can't get to the bottom of most the racks once installed and I
> think the 1/8 wall isn't enough for a thread so I welded a 5/16 nut
> inside the channel.
>
> That last part is the tedium that has me wondering if there is a better
> way. 25 batteries = 25 bars = 50 nuts = 100 little tack welds, then
> weld the bar to the racks... at least another day. ( I weld slow)
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I used a floor jack, one wheel at a time. Slow, and
probably not good at all for the total structural
integrity of the vehicle, after one has set 500 lbs.
or so of batteries on one end...
--- "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What do you folks use to lift the glider for your
> home garage
> conversions?
>
> I was looking at a scissor lift
>
http://www.americanautomotiveequipment.com/pages/831668/index.htm
> but it
> is pricy at $1,000. It is nice that it lifts pretty
> high, not sure
> about the stability though.
>
> Thanks for all of your help,
>
> Noel
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
_____________________________________________
From: stu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 10:36 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Crushable bumper idea?
Imagine a few dozen empty beer cans placed horizontally between 2 plates.
Upon impact, these cans will crush and they will decelerate the main vehicle
body.
Their weight would be insignificant but I believe that they might be very
effective in reducing bodily injury.
A bonus is that the cost of replacement after an accident is something to
celebrate.
I'll drink to that!
BoyntonStu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I understand what you're asking now. You want to have the regs
mounted remotely and adjust their set point to allow for the voltage drop
in the cables, right? This might work. You could try adding extension
wires to your meter probes so you can see the meter while you're adjusting
the regs.
Ralph
Lawrence Rhodes writes:
>
> My eyes aren't that good but maybe if I had some clips and a big readout I
> might be able to reae it through the windshield if the hood wasn't in the
> way. Question is will this work? Is it possible the long wire interfears
> with the functioning of the reg. LR>.......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Kelvin connection
>
>
> >
> >
> > Lawrence,
> >
> > Why wouldn't the person adjusting the reg have the voltmeter right there
> > in front of them on the reg itself?
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes writes:
> >>
> >> It seems to me that I have adjusted my regs once in a while. Once you
> >> adjust it. It then carrys on at that level all by its self for a long
> >> time.
> >> But over time you might have to slightly readjust them. Here is the
> >> senario. Person A is at the reg in the front of the car. Person B reads
> >> the voltage at the battery. Person B Calls out voltages. Person A
> >> adjusts
> >> the reg untill the battery hits lets say 15 volts. You are done. Go to
> >> the
> >> next reg and battery untill they all register the same voltage. My
> >> experience is that this is a little tricky. As you adjust one reg it
> >> effects the other regs. It takes a while but with patience you can have
> >> every battery in your pack at the same voltage at the end of charge.
> >> It's
> >> the error that measuring the voltage at the reg 8 feet away will lead you
> >> astray. If one person is at the battery they will tell you when you have
> >> adjusted the reg correctly. Then you are done. The person isn't going
> >> to
> >> use a light bulb to do it manually. You need the reg to carry on after
> >> you
> >> have found the right voltage. Am I making myself clear? I'm not
> >> triggering
> >> the reg. The reg does that by itself after being adjusted properly which
> >> is
> >> why you need another person to quicken the process. Is that clear?
> >> Lawrence Rhodes.........
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:39 PM
> >> Subject: RE: Kelvin connection
> >>
> >>
> >> >I don't understand the question. The Kelvin connection does exactly
> >> > that. It measures voltage at the battery.
> >> >
> >> > Are you suggesting that you always stand there and manually measure the
> >> > voltage? If so, what do you need a regulator for? Just turn down your
> >> > charger when a battery gets charged.
> >> >
> >> > Are you suggesting that you would manually trigger the regulator when
> >> > the other guy tells you to? If so, how would you do that? Would you
> >> > turn the trim pot so that it kicks in? If so, you'll quickly wear out
> >> > the trim pot, as it's not rugged enough to be constantly adjusted.
> >> >
> >> > - Jake
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >> > Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> >> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:21 PM
> >> > To: [email protected]
> >> > Subject: Re: Kelvin connection
> >> >
> >> > Avoiding all this could one just measure the voltage at the battery?
> >> > Would
> >> > the reg still function? It would mean a lot of running back and forth
> >> > or a
> >> > partner but will the regs function that way. Lawrence Rhodes......
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like they are now just stocking the three (Festive/VWBug/Metro) The
small motor they used for the geared down version with the belt must have
been too much trouble. I can see why. Just too little power and not much
difference in price. I think it made more sense for them to go with the
bigger motor since they have about three thousand of them. They are set up
for forced air cooling. If you really want to go with that belt system it
would be very easy for a machinist to build it for you. Lawrence
Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: belt driven ev volkswagen
http://www.e-volks.com
The above listed web site doesn`t list the belt driven vw...
Rich
This should do it. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:08 PM
Subject: belt driven ev volkswagen
Hello, does anyone have the website for the belt driven volkswagen ev ??
The ev engine was mounted beside the tranny and driven by belt and I
think
he wanted 500 bucks for the adapter.
Thanks Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes. Don't do the Marine batteries. Use the EV 145's or comparable. They
are classed as scrubber batteries but the EV 145 was developed as an EV
battery from the start. LR.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 1:41 AM
Subject: RE: Alltrax 7245 controller
Hello Robert,
has anyone ever successfully used a Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp
controller in their road going car that weighs roughly 780 kg.
I am still thinking whether to go curtis.
I don't think the choice between a Curtis or Alltrax is going to
compromise your conversion, as I suspect the limiting factor will be
battery side (ie. the 72 volts of SCS225 batteries).
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup I was there... John did very well
It was worth the trip.
I shook the Man's hand and welcomed him to the Madman's 100.
My Red Head...is working on the embrodery... part of the Logo was taped to
my mirror when I got in last night.
I am safe... and a bit clearer of mind this morning..
Why I am at home and Not at Woodburn.... that's gonna be a different post.
Contrats John, the months of effort have paid off.
Rich Rudman
Madman Racing.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been carefully watching this particular thread especially in regards to
the battery choices mentioned. For my Festiva I was planning on going the 12
X 6V US2200 at 225Ah and I wanted to know if any of you could give me
guidelines as to whether I might be better off going for 6 EV-145, the price
would be good for me here in Montreal. However, I'm trying to find a good
compromise between overall weight and range. The EV at 145Ah have less
overall oomph, but would shave off some 260 Lbs off the overall total
weight, so to recap
12 X 6V US2200 (63 Lbs) = 780 Lbs at 220 Ah
6 X 12V EV-145 (87 Lbs) = 522 Lbs at 145 Ah
Anyone have any comments, I too would be looking at the Alltrax and I'm
expecting roughly the following performance from my Festiva with the
following components:
Motor: D&D 10 HP
Controller: Altrax 7245
Voltage: 72 Volts
Max speed ~50-55 Mph (80-90Kph)
Max range ~30-50 Miles (50-80Km)
Is this doable? Any comments?
thanks,
Stefano
On 9/4/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes. Don't do the Marine batteries. Use the EV 145's or comparable. They
> are classed as scrubber batteries but the EV 145 was developed as an EV
> battery from the start. LR.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 1:41 AM
> Subject: RE: Alltrax 7245 controller
>
>
> >
> > Hello Robert,
> >
> >> has anyone ever successfully used a Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp
> >> controller in their road going car that weighs roughly 780 kg.
> >> I am still thinking whether to go curtis.
> >
> > I don't think the choice between a Curtis or Alltrax is going to
> > compromise your conversion, as I suspect the limiting factor will be
> > battery side (ie. the 72 volts of SCS225 batteries).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Claudio
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone use a shunt setup using a Curtis for power and a contactor to
use the shunt motor as a regen unit when going down hill. Just wondering if
this has been done or could be done. I know the shunt motor must be set to
neutral brush timing.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I spent most of today making battery racks...
> I was just wondering if there is a better way.
> 25 batteries = 25 bars = 50 nuts = 100 little tack welds,
> then weld the bar to the racks... at least another day.
I would hesitate to design your racks for one specific battery. Battery
manufacturers keep changing things, so when this pack wears out you may
be disappointed to find that the new ones require a completely different
rack!
A more common way to make a rack is to use it to outline the skeleton of
a cube. You have the square base (as you built), with enough
cross-pieces to support the weight of the batteries in the center. You
make a similar cover, that goes down over the top, with the lip of the
angle iron down instead of up (so the lips keep the batteries from going
sideways). Then long bolts connect the top and bottom racks to secure
the batteries.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVdave wrote:
> neutral and ground are really the same thing... open up a circuit
> breaker box and you will see they are both put to the same place.
> But that is the only place they should be the same. It's an old
> electricians rule, unwritten, to treat the neutral and the ground
> differently everywhere else...
Actually, it *is* written in the NEC (National Electric Code)!
> as far as the dryer goes... there is NOTHING, 220 in your home
> that doesn't have a ground...
That depends on how recent it is. For a long, LONG time, large home
appliances that used 240vac did NOT have ground wires. The 3-pin plugs
they always used had only two "hots" and neutral -- no ground. The
manufacturers of kitchen electric ranges and electric clothes dryers
fought long and hard not to ground their exposed metal cases. It wasn't
until the 1990's that they finally lost the battle. New ranges and
clothers dryers now have to ground their cases, and have 4-wire plugs
(two hots, neutral, and ground).
My recommendation is to use the 4-pin version, not the 3-pin version for
any new outlets you install. Then you have access to both neutral and
ground.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> This is the first I've heard of a Lee Hart zener lamp regulator.
> Are you personally making these? If the price is right I'll take 20.
Yes, informally. I've posted data on them several times for at least a
couple years on the EV list. I posted the circuit, parts list, and how
they are made. Basically, it's a pair of 5 watt zener diodes and a #PR2
lamp in series. The zeners go in the ring terminals to use the battery
terminals as their heatsinks. I've built about 100 of them for myself
and others. The price is $10 each if you want me to make them. The parts
cost about $5 each if you build them yourself.
> I also like your battery balancer and think I could sell them,
> but I can't push them as I can't get them.
The Balancer is a build-it-yourself project. The schematics, parts
lists, and data is at http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
As it happens, I have a few people who want them and paid deposits so I
can order another batch of boards. Several more fence-sitters have been
talking about it (but so far it's only talk).
So, I am going to order 10 sets of boards on or around Sept 15. In
quantities of 10, the Control board is $45 and the relay boards are $30
each. If I have a deposit from people before then, they will be sure of
getting boards and I will sell them at my cost (I'll divide the cost by
whatever number of orders I have by then, so it might be cheaper).
If people wait until after I have bought the board with my own money,
then the price will be higher. Also, they will only be available on a
first-come, first-serve basis. Since it has been 2 years since I ordered
the last batch of boards, you may have to wait a long time!
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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The rubber stuff is called PlastiDip and is made by PDI.
http://www.plastidip.com/
There is a primer for PlastiDip specifically. It's made of solvents.
http://www.quiltershusband.com/qhhtm/qhplastidip.htm
Quilter's Husband is the oddly named site for buying PlastiDip products
online. Note they have MSDS which shows what went into these products
online.
Danny
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Jeff,
Well, you have now made racks out of steel, so continued that way if you are just about completed. Be sure to coated all this steel with a rubber coating. I used the tool coating compound that is design to dip your handles of the tools in. If you look at the specs., this can be used for coating the battery terminals too. You can get this compound from Home Depot.
First paint all the steel with epoxy appliance paint and than rubber coated it. The epoxy appliance paint comes in spray cans and does not need a primer. You can also get this from Home Depot. It makes the rubber compound to attach better.
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One more thing-
It will probably not come up but while PlastiDip is extremely resistant
to alkali and acids, it is susceptible to petrochemical solvents
including gasoline.
Danny
Danny Miller wrote:
The rubber stuff is called PlastiDip and is made by PDI.
http://www.plastidip.com/
There is a primer for PlastiDip specifically. It's made of solvents.
http://www.quiltershusband.com/qhhtm/qhplastidip.htm
Quilter's Husband is the oddly named site for buying PlastiDip
products online. Note they have MSDS which shows what went into these
products online.
Danny
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Jeff,
Well, you have now made racks out of steel, so continued that way if
you are just about completed. Be sure to coated all this steel with
a rubber coating. I used the tool coating compound that is design to
dip your handles of the tools in. If you look at the specs., this
can be used for coating the battery terminals too. You can get this
compound from Home Depot.
First paint all the steel with epoxy appliance paint and than rubber
coated it. The epoxy appliance paint comes in spray cans and does
not need a primer. You can also get this from Home Depot. It makes
the rubber compound to attach better.
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On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:04:07 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>That depends on how recent it is. For a long, LONG time, large home
>appliances that used 240vac did NOT have ground wires. The 3-pin plugs
>they always used had only two "hots" and neutral -- no ground. The
>manufacturers of kitchen electric ranges and electric clothes dryers
>fought long and hard not to ground their exposed metal cases. It wasn't
>until the 1990's that they finally lost the battle. New ranges and
>clothers dryers now have to ground their cases, and have 4-wire plugs
>(two hots, neutral, and ground).
Actually, two hots and ground with no neutral. For pure 240 volt
appliances like dryers and most ranges, there is no need for a
neutral. If a neutral is forced on the install, it is not connected
to anything. Ever since I've been interested in such things as a
small kid, the metal chassis of major appliance HAS been connected to
ground.
The minor controversy blown up into a major one, my cynical side says,
by mfrs wanting to sell more wire, arose where there was a trivial
incidental 120 volt load such as the stove clock or oven light. In
that case the neutral current piggybacked on the ground wire.
One can, of course, with a fertile imagination, conceive of an
instance where this could be a little dangerous. The ground gets
unhooked at the panel, for instance. These were judged to be
incredible up until recent years when the NEC has transformed from a
reasonable safety standard to a cookbook of special interests. Rules
are changed now most often because one or more major manufacturers
wants to sell a new product rather than a compelling need to address a
safety problem. Indeed, some changes make the problems worse. Section
600 (neon and gas tube lighting) is one of the worst examples.
I agree with Lee's recommendation for 4 wire for one simple reason-
almost all 240 volt outlets today are 4 wire. It would be much easier
to bum a charge somewhere if your plug was compatible with modern
dryer plugs. Which isn't the same as a 4 wire range plug. Thanks,
NEC.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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Thx for the answers everyone, just became a bit wiser
(was under the impression as a newbie that volts were
more important than amps/hr)
One question: where can I find this Uve's Electric
Vehicle Calculator?
thx in advance.
grtz
Pascal
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It depends on how much amperes you will need to
> drive your EV.
>
> Ampere-hour capacity is a measure of how many
> amperes a battery can deliver for a specified length
> of time. These are normally rated for a 20 hour
> rate.
>
> Example:
>
> A typical marine or golf car battery that has 100
> ampere-hours can deliver 5 amperes for 20 hours (5
> amperes x 20 hours = 100 amp-hrs).
>
> As the ampere goes up or the load of your EV goes
> up, A 100 ampere-hour battery may only deliver 20
> amperes for only 4 hours, resulting in an actual
> capacity of 80 ampere-hours.
>
> If the battery is measure in reserve capacity. Lets
> say a battery has a 180 minute reserved capacity at
> 25 amps, then:
>
> 180 min. / 60 = 3 hours
>
> Therefore:
>
> 3 hr x 25 amps = 75 amp-hours.
>
>
> Normally a golf cart is driven at slow speed for
> short distance and some needs to be charge driving 9
> holes.
>
> A EV vehicle is normally driven from 10 to 25 mph
> city driving through residential streets. My
> average mph in my city with speed limits from 20 to
> 35 mph is only 15 mph.
>
> My average ampere draw is about 50 amps at 15 mph. I
> am using 250 ampere-hour batteries, so if you kill
> the batteries down to 0 percent, then you think you
> can get:
>
> 250 amp-hr /50 amps = 5 hours of driving
>
> NOT SO !!
>
> When you get to 50 percent charge of the battery or
> about 125 to 100 amp-hr which causes a voltage drop
> that might be below your motor voltage. The EV will
> slow down and may not have enough power to climb any
> grades.
>
> So its is best to only discharge down to 50 percent.
> The batteries will last longer. A EV that drives
> 100 miles a day with two deep discharges and
> recharged, the battery life could be only two years.
>
>
> A EV with enough AH capacity that allows you to
> drive several days before its gets down to 50
> percent will last a lot longer. My last set of
> batteries were the Exide 235 AH 6-volt golf car
> batteries, that I was be able to squeeze 12 years
> out of with only 6 replacements out of 30 batteries.
>
>
> The new set I have now is Trojan 260 AH 6-volt which
> is now 4 years olds and I expect them to go at least
> another 6 to 8 more years. There is only 0.01 volt
> difference between all the batteries which we call a
> balance charged battery.
>
> The 28 ah battery has only a 18 hole range at about
> 5 mph for a vehicle that weighs less than 1000 lbs.
>
> So it depends on the weight, speed and what distance
> you want to go.
>
> Used Uve's Electric Vehicle Calculator to determined
> what type of EV system you need.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pascal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: EVDL<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:51 AM
> Subject: Battery question (again)
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry if this has been answered before, I
> problably
> missed it then.
>
> It was suggested that I should use 6V batteries
> for my
> EV, but yesterday I visited a golfcar-dealer and I
> noticed some 12V batteries (1 type is 12v/22ah,
> the
> other is 12v/28ah) for golfcars.
>
> So I wonder, are these ok to use in an EV, (I'm
> still
> a newbie at EV-stuff)
>
> thx
>
> Pascal
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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Hi Stefano and All,
Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've been carefully watching this particular thread especially in regards to
the battery choices mentioned. For my Festiva I was planning on going the 12
X 6V US2200 at 225Ah and I wanted to know if any of you could give me
Those or the US 2400 better or the Trojan equivilents would work
well though not be real quick accelerating. If you go the 12vdc route with that
much weight, drag you will replace the batts quite often and have little range.
You will need to insulate them well and add batt heaters if you want to keep
your range in the winter, spring, fall that you have in summer of any type you
use.
guidelines as to whether I might be better off going for 6 EV-145, the price
would be good for me here in Montreal. However, I'm trying to find a good
compromise between overall weight and range. The EV at 145Ah have less
overall oomph, but would shave off some 260 Lbs off the overall total
weight, so to recap
12 X 6V US2200 (63 Lbs) = 780 Lbs at 220 Ah
6 X 12V EV-145 (87 Lbs) = 522 Lbs at 145 Ah
Anyone have any comments, I too would be looking at the Alltrax and I'm
expecting roughly the following performance from my Festiva with the
following components:
Motor: D&D 10 HP
Controller: Altrax 7245
This will work only if you have a clutch so you can shift to lower
gears for starting up hills. You want the D+D Motors, the people who sold ADC,
that turns high rpm at 72vdc like 5k rpm with rated power.
Voltage: 72 Volts
Max speed ~50-55 Mph (80-90Kph)
Max range ~30-50 Miles (50-80Km)
50 mile is probably pushing it so you would want a 125 minute at 75
amp batt like the T125/US2400 or still better, T/US 145's 6vdc batts. US145's
and EV145 are 6 and 12v, different batts.
While the SCS225 or EV 145 is a god battery for a lighter EV with
very low drag, they are fairly light for what you want and won't go anywhere
near the range you want.
But are a good choice for an under 1200lb, low aero, rolling drag or
slow EV if you don't need longer range.
Is this doable? Any comments?
thanks,
Stefano
On 9/4/05, Lawrence Rhodes
wrote:
>
> Yes. Don't do the Marine batteries. Use the EV 145's or comparable. They
> are classed as scrubber batteries but the EV 145 was developed as an EV
> battery from the start. LR.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Claudio Natoli"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 1:41 AM
> Subject: RE: Alltrax 7245 controller
>
>
> >
> > Hello Robert,
> >
> >> has anyone ever successfully used a Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp
> >> controller in their road going car that weighs roughly 780 kg.
> >> I am still thinking whether to go curtis.
> >
> > I don't think the choice between a Curtis or Alltrax is going to
> > compromise your conversion, as I suspect the limiting factor will be
> > battery side (ie. the 72 volts of SCS225 batteries).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Claudio
> >
> >
>
>
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