EV Digest 4700
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Firefly and their longer lasting lead-acid battery/Lawn & Garden
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) evalbum copyright or public domain?
by "Lightning Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Some EV help
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV as backup power for house with grid-tied solar?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: more wireing detail questions
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Freeway vs Sparrow
by "Tim Medeck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Digital or analog gauges
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) associated1 on Ebay / IOTA Power supplies
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EvAmerica 'clutchless design'
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Tardy but not TOO LATE - a REPEAT
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) OT: RE: Ebay (and sniping)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
by Mike Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV as backup power for house with grid-tied solar?
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: An Enemy of my Enemy
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
That seems to be it Ryan. The videos of the Electrolux link posted
previously play on my PC with plain old Windoze media player or Quicktime
movies. Its a load of Hype and salespeak presumably to persuade investors to
bring money into the joint venture - although with a large company such as
caterpillar and Electrolux involved I am not sure why they need a few extra
million $ ??
It sounds quite a good idea - I know Graphite sponge "slices" have been used
in Pb cells before but they seem to have taken it one step further by having
a line of Carbon sponges (not sure how you do that) impregnated with (I
guess) oxides of lead and sulphates of lead - just like an ordinary
battery - but instead of using a fine grid of lead wires as the carrier for
this "paste" they are using carbon which has a larger surface area which
equals better power densities.
So I wonder where the batteries are. It sounds like this idea has been
around for 3 years or so but has anyone come across a cell that may have
been offered up for testing to determine the power densities and available
currents -- or as the original poster said is it "Snake Oil"
I wonder if some home experimentation is in order - Could we go and get some
of that open cell foam (you know the one that they make the bug cleaners for
car windows that's all crunchy) and loads of soot and glue- coat the sponge,
slice it up on the bandsaw , get an old Pb cells and scrape out the lead
oxide/sulphates mix with a little acid to form a paste and press it into the
foam. Make two of these (pos & neg) - dunk in jar of acid and hey presto a
carbon sponge battery !!!
Dream on .............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: Firefly and their longer lasting lead-acid battery/Lawn &
Garden
> Neon John wrote:
>
> > About patents. The first thing I do when I hear about a company
> > releasing a new technology is to go to http://www.uspto.gov, do a
> > quick patent search and plug the company name into the "assignee"
> > field. If the company has any patents assigned to it, they'll kick
> > back. In this case, "Firefly" returned nothing relevant. If someone
> > who is willing to let FLASH execute on his computer can glean any
> > other company name, I'll do so more searching.
>
> I think this battery was actually developed at the Caterpillar R&D lab
> in Peoria, IL. Then some how, the employees that were involved spun
> off this "Firefly" company.
>
> I think this is the patent for the battery: 20040002006
>
>
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=2&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=95&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=Caterpillar.AS.&OS=AN/Caterpillar&RS=AN/Caterpillar
>
> If someone can't get the link to work, here's the summary:
>
> Battery including carbon foam current collectors
>
> Abstract
>
> A battery having a current collector constructed of carbon foam. The
> carbon foam includes a network of pores into which a chemically active
> paste is disposed to create either a positive or negative plate for
> the battery. The carbon foam resists corrosion and exhibits a large
> amount of surface area. The invention includes a method for making the
> disclosed carbon foam current collector used in the battery.
>
>
> There's another part: 20030219653
>
> Battery including carbon foam current collectors
>
> Abstract
>
> A battery having a current collector constructed of carbon foam. The
> carbon foam includes a network of pores into which a chemically active
> paste is disposed to create either a positive or negative plate for
> the battery. The carbon foam resists corrosion and exhibits a large
> amount of surface area. The invention includes a method for making the
> disclosed carbon foam current collector used in the battery.
>
>
>
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=2&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=99&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=Caterpilla
r.AS.&OS=AN/Caterpillar&RS=AN/Caterpillar
>
>
> Or do a search for the word Caterpillar like John said:
> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html
>
>
> Thanks for the tip John.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need to confirm that the information and photos at the
evalbum are not copyrighted as I've used some at the wikipedia
and they are pretty fussy about that sort of thing...
In particulare I used James Wolfe's '93 Dodge Caravan photo from:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/425.html on this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_TEVan
L8r
Ryan
> Friend, you need to go to the EV Album. People have
> submitted all kinds of photos, and they're not copyrighted.
>
> Yes, and in case you don't know the way, it's
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I want badly to make some kind of electric car. my commute is so small
> it just makes sense to me to try. (7 miles each way all under 45mph)
>
> so I want to custom build something. I'm figuring build something
> "around" a motorcycle chassis. full enclosed with side rigger wheels to
> make it stable and all weather.
>
Some things to consider if you decide to go the custom built route:
Go to your DMV (or whatever they call it in your state) and find out what
the requirements are to register a "self constructed vehicle" (or whatever
they call it in your state).
Chances are the drones that work at DMV won't have a clue, but there will
be one person who is responsible for inspecting them. If you live in a
urban or rural area, chances are this person travels around from one DMV
to another, so find out when she/he will be there next and show up to talk
with him/her.
Keep detailed records/photos of the consrtuction process. Keep receipts
for EVERYTHING. One of the thigs they check for is to make sure you
haven't built a vehicle from stolen parts. So you'll need to prove you
bought/built everything.
Consider a three wheeled motorcycle (if they are legal in your state).
Three wheeled vehicles are probably easier to build than two wheelers with
outriggers, definitely less complicated to use.
Insurance is also going to be a bit of a problem with a self constructed
vehicle.
How fixed is the 45 mph requirement? The reason I ask is that there is a
Federal classfication for electrically assisted bicycles (which can have
three wheels ad be fully enclosed).
ELectric bicycles don't require ANY registration, licensing, or insurance.
The main restrictions are that the drive motor can't be rated at more than
760 watts and that it can't exceed 20 mph on flat ground, when propelled
SOLELY by the electric motor and piloted by a 165 person.
This means that it CAN legally exceed 20 mph when you are pedalling to
help. There is no limit on how fast it can go when you are pedaling.
The only restrictions on top speed are physics, i.e. how aerodynamic it
is. 750 watts is enough to propel an extreemly streamlined, two wheeled,
vehicle to speeds up to 90 mph.
With three wheels and less than optimum streamlining 45 mph on flat ground
might be doable, especially with the extra 100-200 watts from pedalling.
Add hills, however, and that's another subject entirely.
If you don't have a multispeed transmission, then in order to handle hills
you will have to gear it for a lower top speed.
The reason is that the wheel torque required to climb a hill is the same
regardless of how fast you go. Going over about 15-20 mph will require
extra torque to overcome wind resistance though.
The point is that if it is geared to have enough torque to travel at 45
mph on flat ground, it obviously won't have enough torque to climb a hill
at 45 mph. Slowing down won't help much because all you lower is the
torque needed to overcome wind resistance and that is pretty minimal
compared to the torque needed to climb the hill.
750 watts plus 100-200 from the rider should be eough to climb hills at
25-30 mph if the vehicle is fairly light. Maybe even 35 mph.
I'd gear it for 35 mph and add a govenor to prevent it from going over 20
mph, unless the rider is pedalling, and see how it works.
Good luck.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/12/05, Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone tried this yet?
>
> I have a 2.5 kW on-grid PV system for my house. Those familiar with these
> grid tied inverters know that the whole PV system shuts down when the grid
> goes down. Unless! You can fool the inverter by adding a battery back up
> pack with an extra inverter. When the grid goes down, the grid-tied inverter
> senses the AC power (must be similar to grid AC power) from the backup
> inverter and still allows the PV to keep working. I've heard this works
> fine.
I wouldn't bet on it. It may work with some inverters, but not any of
the ones I've used.
The characteristic of most grid-tied inverters is to push as much
power into the grid as possible. Therefore, with no load applied, the
voltage would immediately increase to the cut off limit and the
inverter would shut down.
Similarly, the inverter must detect the "grid" (your other inverter)
as being within its limits to start with. Even with a good sine wave
inverter, the waveform and peak voltages and so on can easily be
distorted by loads.
Finally, is there actually much benefit from doing this? To make use
of the solar energy you need to use it when the sun is shining - that
2.5kW will come and go every time the sun goes behind a cloud, so your
extra inveter will have to be big enough to run all the loads anyway.
So, my solution (when people ask for this) is to have a back-up
battery, small emergency inverter (500 or 1000W) and a DC-fed charger
to keep the batteries topped up from the PV array. Of course you
don't get to run everything in your house as normal, but you do get to
keep your fridge, lights, TV on, even if the power is off for a couple
of days.
So, I think you could do the same thing with your EV, if you can find
or make an inverter that'll run off the pack voltage. 290V pack will
give a 208V-ish AC supply if chopped directly, will your house run off
this?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland, great response.
Too bad I messed up the question. I somehow managed to completly forget
to mention I was talking about the terminals on the KILOVAC EV250-2A!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Im sure some of you remember the three-wheeled Freeway...how did it
compare to the Sparrow in performance?
I have an electric Freeway. It has the original driveline consisting of 6
12 volt batteries, contactor controller and a PM motor driving a snowmobile
type variable transmission.
The low speed handling is very good due to the battery pack being just 4
inches off the ground. Above 30 miles per hour, it can get squirrelly when
you hit a bump, dip, etc.
There were 704 Freeways built in Burnsville, MN between 1979 and 1981. 16 of
these were electric.
Tim Medeck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Doug Weathers wrote:
Depends on how they are meant to be used.
If you want to read them at a glance, use analog. If you want to get
high precision, or want to copy numbers off of the gauge into a
notebook, use digital.
Very well put, and my feelings exactly. With my two '72 Datsun 1200
sedans, I use a different approach for each.
White Zombie has both digital and analog gauges. The digital Emeter is
wonderful for watching the pack's voltage rise during charge, watching
the amps flowing into the pack, and counting amp hours put back in. It
also displays the pack's voltage when the car is being driving to and
from the race track, around town so I can keep an eye on how low I'm
taking the pack down, or while setting up to make a 1/4 mile pass. On
the other hand, when actually racing, the digital gauge is nearly
worthless, and it's the twin BIG Simpson analog gauges right in front of
me that I try to watch. At the hectic pace of drag racing, with your
heart ponding and your body being slammed around, a digital gauge
becomes an annoying, hard to decipher, goofy item in the dash....but
those sweeping needles of the Simpsons are easy to see, easy to keep
track of, and for some reason, do not take any 'thinking' to
understand....needle goes here, it means this. I need to spend time this
week to get these gauges back on line, as time constraints kept us from
finishing everything before the big 4 dayer racing weekend. The newest
added 'gauge' is the ability to pull data from the Hairball and download
it into a computer. After the runs, Mark Farver has been plotting the
graphs that have helped us learn so much.
Blue Meanie has its factory analog dash gauges, but I went pure digital
for the console gauges with twin Emeters, one to monitor the HV pack,
one to monitor the 12V system because of its high performance lighting
and sound system demands. In a car with such a small lead acid pack (585
lbs.), the Emeter gives me critical info, accurately and reliably. I can
know the precise amps at any moment being drawn, the accumulating ahrs
being pulled from the pack, and the voltage. I can also get lots of
other info, too. I had tore the car down to make a few improvements here
and there, but had to hastily put it back together to ready it for a car
show and didn't reconnect the Emeters...I feel like I'm driving blind
without these gauges to keep me informed. Perhaps now that things are
calming back down around here, I can get them and the sound system back
on line.
My Honda Insight has an all digital dash, and I find it very pleasant to
use as it gives precise readouts of all sorts of car activities.
However, if I were ever to modify this car and turn it into a racer of
some sorts, those digital gauges would probably be replaced by some high
quality analog types.
The Heavy Metal Garden Tractor is a simple machine with a small dash
that has little space for a bunch of gauges. Here, the trusty digital
Emeter covers everything in one small round dash gauge...amps, volts,
ahrs, run time, etc.....all in one gauge.
To sum it up, I prefer no hassle- no nonsense analog gauges when driving
an EV in a fast paced racing environment, but prefer the accuracy and
precision of digital for my everyday EVs.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I know some people have been thinking about buying one of the IOTA DLS
series power supplies on Ebay for use as a DC-DC. I recently did so.
The transaction actually was pretty smooth and fast, but the person
behind the email address "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" is (quite frankly) a
major jerk. I won't go into the gory details; email me off-list and
I'll send you the email conversation, and you can decide for yourself.
I'd recommend buying from another seller if you're interested in this item.
-- Eric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I used to go to an EBAY competitor online auction site, don't recall the name
right now... But anyway, if a bid was placed within the last minute of the
auction then the auction was extended by one minute. Kind of kills the
snipers...
EBAY should consider it.
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Barnes
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
LR:
I disagree. I am an eBay seller. You have a much larger audience on eBay
than a live auction. I have never been disappointed selling anything. I sold
a spool of magnet wire for $300.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6548970565
I think eBay has more buyers than sellers on most items. As a buyer you need
to be patient and do not get emotional. Set your price limit and stick to
it. If you persist, you may eventually get what you are looking for at the
price you want.
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
I've been to real auctions. Ebay is much better for the buyer. A live
auction is better for the seller. Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <
Good job of summing things up Doug , hears what I did and why
My First ev a vw I bought the adapter form Electro 'Automotive , and it was
and is ( now in Paul's 959 Porsche) a fine piece. If money is not going to
stop you then get this and keep on going , It will bolt in nice and you'll
be done , and know things will work . 2nd was my wife's old car , ( she'd
been saying my first ev wouldn't last, I had said " it will out last your
car" ) when her engine blow ( My first EV outlasted her almost new Mercury
LYNX , and most of the parts are still running in clunn car 3) I desided to
convert it for myself . For the Lynx I bought the Ev America kit , I say
kit because you have to drill your own holes and line things up . More work
but cost less , I didn't take the tranny out of the Lynx when I put the
motor in , did the drilling and lining up with the tranny in the car . I
think this was a mistake , it was hard getting to stuff , the motor weight
pulling down ward and I don't think thing where lined up perfect as after
60,000 miles the owner ( yes I sold it , ) had the clutch disk fall apart .
We put a new disk in and re lined it using my "tap it with a hammer " method
, It sounded good after that , but when putting it back in one of the CV
joints had pulled out of its socket (couldn't see this cus it was in the
boot) , didn't see this when putting the CV's in the tranny as it was on the
wheel side. When we lowered the car the now longer CV axel busted the tranny
, Dusty wanted a EV pick up anyway , this was not one of my of my finer
moments but at that point I think I was up to around no.7 .
Steve Clunn
Hi CW,
On Aug 29, 2005, at 8:17 AM, Cwarman wrote:
Anyone have any experience in EvAmerica's clutchless design for the
Adapter from EV motor to my current S10 with manual transmission compared
to using the manual clutch with a adapter from a place like Canev?
I went back and forth on this for a while, and eventually settled on
keeping my clutch. I bought an adapter from Electro Automotive and have
been extremely pleased with it. (Disclaimer: my EV is still in the garage
being finished - I haven't driven it yet.)
The pros of the clutchless adapter include:
- takes up less room (important if you have limited space for your motor)
- has fewer parts (fewer things to break)
- has less rotating mass (improves performance and range)
- usually cheaper
Cons include
- takes longer to shift (decreases performance, confuses new drivers)
- requires some fabrication
- removes an emergency disconnect on the motor (the clutch) in case your
controller fails on
Since I'm a newbie who has no metalworking skills, and I wanted a fun,
peppy car that I can use to convince others to drive EV, I kept the
clutch.
Is there one better than the other or one thats more simple to install
etc..
"Better" is relative - depends on your goals. Electro Automotive's
adapter was simpler to install - just bolt it together and slap it on the
tranny.
So figure out what's most important to you, do some research, and make
your decision.
Here are some places to do research (picked out of a list from a Google
search for "clutchless EV"):
Svein Medhus in Norway likes his clutchless. Second link is full of
pictures.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4429/evlife.htm
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4429/cl3.htm
From the EV FAQ on evparts.com:
http://www.evparts.com/faq/show.php?id=38
My own blog:
http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/ghia/motor_arrives.html
Search the EVDL archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
Thanks
CWarman
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Several folks have chimed in now... ( Thank you.even the critical ones )
But they keep saying I have not given all the details... I read the
original 9/9 post again for the Third Time, and it seems it is all
there. So here it is again....
Copy of the 9/9 Post.....
I’ve been sitting on this story to post for over a month. My apologies…
The World is defiantly accelerating with events. From Friday Night
Drags, NEDRA at Woodburn, And YES Katrina….. It seems like a bunch
of ABSOLUTE GAS HEADS who are into vintage and CanAm style road racing,
which is getting me all amped about a new class of EV Racing… was
ludicrous ! I mean…, After all, there already been shopping kart EV
racing, EV Bar Stool Racing…. Now there is LAZY-BOY Recliner EV CHAIR
RACING!!
So let me share A little Recent History on how it is Recliner Racing
came into play. About 2 months ago, a man by the name of
Chuck LaFord called me and asked if our club (SEVA-Seattle EV
Association) members would be interested in joining some of HIS buddies
to race electric powered Lazy-Boy Recliners during half time out at
Pacific International Race Way, come September 24th, 05. At first I
didn’t know what to say, but as our discussion went on it was apparent
that most of these folks had the $$ Capitol, the means and time to build
some powerful chairs and have a blast from green to finish. But what
really interested me is the PR angle. Here are some names that he
dropped as possible guest drivers of Chairs our Club would come up with….
Chip Hanauer, world class Unlimited Hydroplane driver …retired.
Craig Breedlove, world Bonneville Speed Record holder… and others
Yes…. My contact actually is personal friends with almost any one and
everyone in road racing.
(also if you care to Google his NAME, you will see he is world class in
Pond Racing of Airplanes… Not an inexpensive hobby…. By any means….
SO..How could I say NO…. (almost) Any publicity is GOOD Publicity….
RIGHT ?
Now so far… Only a few folks in the immediate North West know about
this. (That is MY fault… ) for coming up with hard and fast RULES about
the vehicles has been the “Bain of my Existence” i.e. No one in their
elite race community wants to Bite the Bullet, and give us a hard and
fast rule book, ala NEDRA, or NHRA, or SCCofAmerica. So the only
parameters I have are as follows:
No wider than 48” No longer than 8 feet. No more batteries than
200 lbs. Some Kind of seat that looks kind-of like a Lazy-Boy Recliner.
( But even that “Rule” has been stretched. One GUY who is using an
Ejection Seat from a Navy Jet !!
- and the Rule-Guys said “ …That sounds just FINE” So what am I
to do….
There are Rules, but then again there ARE NO RULES…. The only thing
they have STRESSED over and over again is SAFETY, Handling, Breaking,
Steering, and SAFETY !! ( Oh.. Yah… some idiot said something about
seat belts….) And many have said…” Hay Motorcycles DON’T have seat
belts !!” And I have to agree…. I think the 5-Point NASCAR Harness
that some are using is more of a joke than a safety item…
I suppose, if you have belts, one would not have to USE them in a short
15 minute race round a Go-Kart type course.. OH PS: There IS a
$1,000. prize Purse !!! Yup ! Plus free admission into Pacific
International Race Way, that day for the Vintage Auto Road Racing… Could
be interesting ???.
I have posted a few pictures of what this chair thing might look
like. One is of me in a Lazy Boy, with NO CHASSIS.
http:/home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/LazyBoyRacer.jpg
The second is a Really superb dual motor, independent rear drive
chassis that Dave Cloud has built.
http:/home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/DavesEChairTWO.JPG
Also there is another dual motor tricycle being built by Don “Father
Time” Crabtree which will be of equal or exceeding quality and SPEED.
AND there are others ….
For those of you in the North West who recognize the name Chip Hanaure….
He was very excited to drive one of our E-Chairs from the very
beginning… He drove Road Racing Cars for Pt. Townsand High School down
in Arizona many years ago… But just days ago, I got an e-mail from him
that stated that
commitments of a humanitarian nature in Louisiana and the Hurricane
Katrina tragedy., will take him away from Washington State for the next
month. Our thoughts and prayers go with him….
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:56:50 -0600
I used to go to an EBAY competitor online auction site, don't recall the
name right now... But anyway, if a bid was placed within the last minute of
the auction then the auction was extended by one minute. Kind of kills the
snipers...
EBAY should consider it.
Tim,
If you lose the auction to a "sniper", that person bid higher than you did,
and he or she deserves to win the auction.
If you don't bid the maximum you are willing to pay - and someone wins the
auction at a price that is less than what you were willing to pay, then
you can blame no one but yourself.
Again - to foil snipers : bid the most you are willing to pay - at anytime
before the end of the auction.
Phil
PS : It occurs to me that some people may not understand how Ebay bidding
works . This is from the Ebay site ( and shows why you should bid your
maximum for every auction) :
Here's how bidding on eBay works:
1. When you place a bid, you enter the maximum amount you'd be willing to
pay for the item. Your maximum amount is kept confidential from other
bidders and the seller.
2. The eBay system compares your bid to those of the other bidders.
3. The system places bids on your behalf, using only as much of your bid
as is necessary to maintain your high bid position (or to meet the reserve
price). The system will bid up to your maximum amount.
4. If another bidder has a higher maximum, you'll be outbid. BUT, if no
other bidder has a higher maximum, you win the item. And you could pay
significantly less than your maximum price!
This means you don't have to keep coming back to re-bid every time
another bid is placed.
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Barnes
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
LR:
I disagree. I am an eBay seller. You have a much larger audience on eBay
than a live auction. I have never been disappointed selling anything. I
sold
a spool of magnet wire for $300.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6548970565
I think eBay has more buyers than sellers on most items. As a buyer you
need
to be patient and do not get emotional. Set your price limit and stick to
it. If you persist, you may eventually get what you are looking for at the
price you want.
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
I've been to real auctions. Ebay is much better for the buyer. A live
auction is better for the seller. Lawrence Rhodes.......
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil:
While you are technically right, it seems not to be that easy. Snipers are
automatic programms that bid very shortly before the auction ends to try
to outbid any bidder with an insignificant amount. Say you are willing to
pay US$100 and, 2 or even 1 minute before the auction ends, you are the
current high bidder with $85. Now, the sniper gets into action and bids
all the way up to $100 and finally gets the item for, say, US$ 101. Surely
you would have taken the item for $101? But if you would have set your
maximum to $101, the sniper would have gotten it for $102 and so on.
The general idea of a bidding process is to monitor an item and to try to
get the item for the least amount of money. Having an automated external
programm to bully in at the very last second leaves you with no time to
react.
That was Off Topic. Sorry.
mm.
>
>
>
>>From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: <[email protected]>
>>Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
>>Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:56:50 -0600
>>
>>I used to go to an EBAY competitor online auction site, don't recall the
>>name right now... But anyway, if a bid was placed within the last minute
>> of
>>the auction then the auction was extended by one minute. Kind of kills
>> the
>>snipers...
>>
>>EBAY should consider it.
>>
>>
>
> Tim,
>
> If you lose the auction to a "sniper", that person bid higher than you
> did,
> and he or she deserves to win the auction.
>
> If you don't bid the maximum you are willing to pay - and someone wins the
> auction at a price that is less than what you were willing to pay, then
> you can blame no one but yourself.
>
> Again - to foil snipers : bid the most you are willing to pay - at anytime
> before the end of the auction.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> PS : It occurs to me that some people may not understand how Ebay bidding
> works . This is from the Ebay site ( and shows why you should bid your
> maximum for every auction) :
>
>
> Here's how bidding on eBay works:
>
> 1. When you place a bid, you enter the maximum amount you'd be willing
> to
> pay for the item. Your maximum amount is kept confidential from other
> bidders and the seller.
> 2. The eBay system compares your bid to those of the other bidders.
> 3. The system places bids on your behalf, using only as much of your
> bid
> as is necessary to maintain your high bid position (or to meet the reserve
> price). The system will bid up to your maximum amount.
> 4. If another bidder has a higher maximum, you'll be outbid. BUT, if no
> other bidder has a higher maximum, you win the item. And you could pay
> significantly less than your maximum price!
> This means you don't have to keep coming back to re-bid every time
> another bid is placed.
>
>
>
>>
>>Original Message -----------------------
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>Behalf Of Rick Barnes
>>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
>>
>>LR:
>>
>>I disagree. I am an eBay seller. You have a much larger audience on eBay
>>than a live auction. I have never been disappointed selling anything. I
>>sold
>>a spool of magnet wire for $300.
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6548970565
>>
>>I think eBay has more buyers than sellers on most items. As a buyer you
>>need
>>to be patient and do not get emotional. Set your price limit and stick to
>>it. If you persist, you may eventually get what you are looking for at
>> the
>>price you want.
>>
>>Rick Barnes
>>Aloha, OR
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
>>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:12 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
>>
>>
>>I've been to real auctions. Ebay is much better for the buyer. A live
>>auction is better for the seller. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, I know that EVers buy a lot of parts and vehicles on Ebay, but
please, let's keep the off-topic material, such as discussions of how to
bid, to a minimum. Please pass along such information in private email.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
His point is still valid, though. If you put your maximum bid in as $100,
and someone else bids $101, then both parties should be satisfied. If you
really would have paid $110, then your original bid should have been $110,
not $100. Auctions are geared toward hype - influencing the perceived value
of something by bidding activity. When you bid on something, you're giving
it value by asserting that you think it has worth. This can affect how
others value it, and then the price goes higher than if you hadn't bid on
it. Sniping is a solution to this problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
Phil:
While you are technically right, it seems not to be that easy. Snipers are
automatic programms that bid very shortly before the auction ends to try to
outbid any bidder with an insignificant amount. Say you are willing to pay
US$100 and, 2 or even 1 minute before the auction ends, you are the current
high bidder with $85. Now, the sniper gets into action and bids all the way
up to $100 and finally gets the item for, say, US$ 101. Surely you would
have taken the item for $101? But if you would have set your maximum to
$101, the sniper would have gotten it for $102 and so on.
The general idea of a bidding process is to monitor an item and to try to
get the item for the least amount of money. Having an automated external
programm to bully in at the very last second leaves you with no time to
react.
That was Off Topic. Sorry.
mm.
>
>
>
>>From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: <[email protected]>
>>Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
>>Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:56:50 -0600
>>
>>I used to go to an EBAY competitor online auction site, don't recall
>>the name right now... But anyway, if a bid was placed within the last
>>minute of the auction then the auction was extended by one minute.
>>Kind of kills the snipers...
>>
>>EBAY should consider it.
>>
>>
>
> Tim,
>
> If you lose the auction to a "sniper", that person bid higher than you
> did, and he or she deserves to win the auction.
>
> If you don't bid the maximum you are willing to pay - and someone wins
> the auction at a price that is less than what you were willing to
> pay, then you can blame no one but yourself.
>
> Again - to foil snipers : bid the most you are willing to pay - at
> anytime before the end of the auction.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> PS : It occurs to me that some people may not understand how Ebay bidding
> works . This is from the Ebay site ( and shows why you should bid your
> maximum for every auction) :
>
>
> Here's how bidding on eBay works:
>
> 1. When you place a bid, you enter the maximum amount you'd be
> willing to pay for the item. Your maximum amount is kept confidential
> from other bidders and the seller.
> 2. The eBay system compares your bid to those of the other bidders.
> 3. The system places bids on your behalf, using only as much of
> your bid as is necessary to maintain your high bid position (or to
> meet the reserve price). The system will bid up to your maximum
> amount.
> 4. If another bidder has a higher maximum, you'll be outbid. BUT,
> if no other bidder has a higher maximum, you win the item. And you
> could pay significantly less than your maximum price!
> This means you don't have to keep coming back to re-bid every
> time another bid is placed.
>
>
>
>>
>>Original Message -----------------------
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>On Behalf Of Rick Barnes
>>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
>>
>>LR:
>>
>>I disagree. I am an eBay seller. You have a much larger audience on
>>eBay than a live auction. I have never been disappointed selling
>>anything. I sold a spool of magnet wire for $300.
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6548970565
>>
>>I think eBay has more buyers than sellers on most items. As a buyer
>>you need to be patient and do not get emotional. Set your price limit
>>and stick to it. If you persist, you may eventually get what you are
>>looking for at the price you want.
>>
>>Rick Barnes
>>Aloha, OR
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
>>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:12 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
>>
>>
>>I've been to real auctions. Ebay is much better for the buyer. A
>>live auction is better for the seller. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/12/05, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Phil:
>
> While you are technically right, it seems not to be that easy. Snipers are
> automatic programms that bid very shortly before the auction ends to try
> to outbid any bidder with an insignificant amount.
Yes, but the sniper program is only bidding up to a maximum of
whatever it's user requested. The only difference is that you can't
find out what they think it's worth by bidding the price up.
> The general idea of a bidding process is to monitor an item and to try to
> get the item for the least amount of money.
Yes, which is exactly what the sniper programs facilitate :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most of the inverters used to produce AC for a grid connection need to 'see'
the grid AC waveform to produce AC that is within harmonic tolerances of the
grid. If the software does not see the waveform, then it does not produce AC.
Very simple.
This is to prevent a dangerous situation where if the grid is down for repair,
blackout, whatever, the grid electrical line workmen are not put in danger by
live wires back feeding ac into the grid. This is known as islanding.
There are inverters with battery backup that can produce AC that don't need to
see a grid connection to work and are not connected to the grid at all. This is
called a stand alone system.
Some, www.outbackpower.com, have an inverter system that does both. This is
known as a Battery back up system. Basically the way it works is that there are
two separate electrical boxes, one that powers 'normal' circuits and another
electrical box that powers 'emergency' circuits. The inverter senses when there
is no grid power, cuts the power to the 'normal' circuits and powers the
'emergency' circuits only with the battery backup, so it isolates the produced
ac from the grid and no islanding occurs.
Your existing inverter will not work, even if you use another inverter to
produce ac. Your original inverter is made to see a specific ac waveform to
produce ac and even then you would be backfeeding the grid, islanding. And that
is a big NO NO. Even if you do go that route, then you will need to install a
200 amp (or whatever your grid service feed is) service disconnect. It makes
more sense to just upgrade your inverter to a battery backup system that has a
'emergency' circuit box. Hook up your EV to the inverter when the grid is down
and you'll electricity.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: EV as backup power for house with grid-tied solar?
> Has anyone tried this yet?
>
> I have a 2.5 kW on-grid PV system for my house. Those familiar with these
> grid tied inverters know that the whole PV system shuts down when the grid
> goes down. Unless! You can fool the inverter by adding a battery back up
> pack with an extra inverter. When the grid goes down, the grid-tied inverter
> senses the AC power (must be similar to grid AC power) from the backup
> inverter and still allows the PV to keep working. I've heard this works
> fine.
>
> In my E-10 I have 23 Group 27 Gel cels for a total of 292 volts, These
> batteries are rated at 86.4 Ahr. My question to anyone who has related
> experience with this, is can I use my truck's batteries as back up for my
> house when the grid goes down? Which inverter would be best suited? What
> else would I need? Would I need to do some special isolation wiring in my
> E-10 or something else?
>
> Thanks all
> Jacob Harris
> E-10 (almost ready, a few bugs to work out: power steering, Volt meter, and
> some jerky-ness)
> Sebastopol, CA
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I for one love your posts and your new found excitement. Keep em coming.
You are exactly what our spot needs! Anyway, John needs a little
competition on several levels to keep his swelled head in check since
his last outing :-)
May take some time, but planning to surprise John...
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
