EV Digest 4714
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: DC-DC for lights only?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: DC-DC for lights only?
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Rear wheel recommendations
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Practical payback???
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NEDRA race location change?
by toltec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
by "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: First Electric Vehicle, Inc. First Contact.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Practical payback???
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Freeway vs Sparrow and 3 wheel stability
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Lithium Battery Users?
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: First Electric Vehicle, Inc. First Contact.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Rear wheel recommendations
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Practical payback???
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) OT Troubles with nuclear, was Re: Practical payback???
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Freeway vs Sparrow and 3 wheel stability
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: OT Troubles with nuclear, was Re: Practical payback???
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Well, you know they make bike white LEDs cluster head lights now?
Can you identify anyone making a road-legal (i.e. DOT approved) LED
headlight?
There are LED headlamps (as in the type you wear on your head while
biking/hiking/etc.), and there are LED lights for bicycles, but neither
of these are appropriate (or legal) for use on a street vehicle. (My
understanding is that Nick is converting a motorcycle for on-road use.)
I don't believe there would be any problem PWMing the stock headlight
provided the frequency is high enough that the filament doesn't have
time to burnout during the on portion of each cycle. I have
(accidentally ;^) applied 24V to 12V bulbs and discovered they will last
a few seconds before burning out, so I suspect a 12v filament will
tolerate 48V for a few ms just fine. Easiest way to know is to simply
connect a 12V bulb to the motor terminals of your controller and
gradually apply throttle until the voltage on the bulb averages about
12-14V (the bulb in place of the motor "trick" is the usual way to
verify the controller operation, but usually a 120VAC bulb is
suggested).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Andrew and All,
Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
jerry dycus wrote:
> Hi Stefano and All,
>
> Stefano Landi wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Just passing on some information and a link.
>
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
>
>
> While usable, not eff as a reg series motor which would be better. They have
> one, a 48vdc GE at $339 that would power most anything but you are getting
> close to new prices for a very used unit.
> Check your local Fork lift, motor repair shops for orphaned, out of date ,
> thus cheap motors. I have a rule, never pay more than $100 for one. Amd make
> sure it works by taking a battery, jumper cables with spare battery cables to
> hok it up for test.
> Jim Husted may have some like this. I like GE as they usually are fairly eff
> though only a little more. Some like the one you noted and the Prestolites
> are only 75% eff vs others are 80-82% eff.
> Of course, the E tek if a very small EV or 2-4 of them for a larger EV may be
> fairly eff letting you use less batteries or more range.
This seems to fit right in with our other thread on low-cost conversion.
Can these evolks guys be too good to be true? $1500 complete conversion
Yes but you can do it much lower than that with just a little work,
probably under $500.
kit? They mention using a contactor and shifting to control speed
instead of a PWM controller at 36 volts, does this kind of rig work for
higher voltage too?
Up to 96vdc as higher than that the contactors get pricy.
I'm very confused by all this as it seems to me that
using just a contactor would give you either all on or all off type
performance. so basically you're flooring it or not and using the tranny
to control speed? wouldn't that be dangerous? what am I missing here?
Speeds !! You have several speeds with a resistor for starting at 1/2
or 1/4 voltage and then voltage up to full voltage. If you have 2 motors you
can series/parallel, as you would the battery pack, them for another speed. Add
the trans gears and you have a very controllable drive. Though I only use 2
electric speeds on my 45mph at 36vdc E woody without a problem. It is quite
easy to get 3-8 speeds with a contactor controller for as much control as you
want.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Andrew
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-09-14, Roger Stockton wrote:
>
> Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Well, you know they make bike white LEDs cluster head lights now?
>
> Can you identify anyone making a road-legal (i.e. DOT approved) LED
> headlight?
>
> There are LED headlamps (as in the type you wear on your head while
> biking/hiking/etc.), and there are LED lights for bicycles, but neither
> of these are appropriate (or legal) for use on a street vehicle. (My
> understanding is that Nick is converting a motorcycle for on-road use.)
Yeah, sorry, I should have been more explicit about that I guess.
Thoughts so far are at: http://zoic.org/sharkey/moto/ev/
It'll be a while before I get started for real ...
LED tail lights and indicators seem to be fine for ADR these days,
probably due to pressure from the trucking industry. Speedo/Odo
drive is generally mechanical, driven by a spinning cable from the
front wheel rather than by anything sophisticated. There's no
power brakes or power steering to worry about. So it's only
the headlight which is going to be a problem, electrically speaking.
(The alternative is to use PWM to charge a very small SLA to run
lighting. It mightn't be a bad idea, since at least that way if
the main battery breaker blows the tail lights keep working!)
> I don't believe there would be any problem PWMing the stock headlight
> provided the frequency is high enough that the filament doesn't have
> time to burnout during the on portion of each cycle.
I'll give it a go, just wanted to check if it was obviously stupid
or if someone had already tried it ... work will have a decent DC
supply and signal gen in the labs, and I can bung a tiny MOSFET
switch together simply enough. I've got a few H4 bulbs in the
junkbox with one or the other filament already burnt out, so no
loss if I kill a couple trying! If it works it scratches AU$200 or
so off my budget, which would be nice :-).
I'm thinking about this EVi(l)bus thing, too: it's perilously
close to what I do for a living (telecomms protocol design), and
perhaps it's a way in which I can make a contribution to EVing even
before I get a chance to build my own ...
-----Nick
--
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://zoic.org/sharkey/>
"My absolute favourite piece of information is the fact that young sloths are
so inept that they frequently grab their own arms and legs instead of tree
limbs, and fall out of trees." -- Douglas Adams
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> explain to me how you're going to make a BEV
> semi tractor that meet the 40 ton weight limit, go 600 miles between
> refueling (12 hours of service * 50 mph), refuel in 8 hours and still
> have any cargo capacity.
I agree with you on the semi truck issue. My thoughts on this are to
have semi's, trains, boats, and airplanes use bio diesel, alcohol,
natural gas, or propane and potentially have all those options for the
millions of cars and trucks on the roads and have electric as an
option for these smaller vehicles too.
Have you seen the new natural gas Honda Civic?
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+GX
> For that matter, tell me how you're going to make the family car go,
> say, 300 miles at 75 mph on a charge and "refuel" in the time it takes
> for a piss break during my trip from here to the west coast.
That is a tough one. Electrics make better "city cars". Running
errands, commuting, weekend runabouts, and pleasure / cruising cars.
I polluted the air for many years with my fuel car to the point it
gave me a complex over it and now I don't want to burn anything
personally. You can burn some propane or NG when your traveling coast
to coast. I personally don't like to travel(long off topic story)..
> I'd wait 15 minutes, maybe even 30 minutes
I don't want to wait at all or hang out at any fueling stations and be
at the mercy of fuel availability. I'll charge when it's convenient
for me.
This sums it up superbly:
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/videos/Refueling_Blue_Meanie.MOV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
> question: Where can I find a wide 'motorcycle type' wheel that will carry
> a 105 load index tire (or better) and which can be mounted in a swing arm
> fork with a bearing on both sides?
I don't know if they ever made a motorcycle wheel with that type of
weight in mind.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:03:45 -0700, Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Paid 12k. State paid other half. Not doing it only on cost but now I'm
>>really glad I did it. My bill is 10 dollars a month. Oh I do pay 100 on
>>the loan but that includes two cars too. LR.......
>
>Hmm, 24k for a system with a payback measured in decades, if ever?
>Practical to you, maybe but probably not for most others.
>
>So by that logic I should rent my home and not buy it, since the payback isn't
>immediate?
Since the home Appreciates and since uncle sugar practically pays one
to own a home, certainly not. OTOH, if the home behaved financially
like other consumer goods and lost value over time, then one would
have to do the calcs of rent vs buy to see which way made sense.
> He borrows enough cash to install the system and it
>reduces his electric bill by more than the amount of his monthly loan payment.
> What's not practical; about that?
Did he? Not enough info provided to determine that. Even if he did
(using the entire price and not the uncle sugar version), assuming
such a long payback still does not make sense.
One simply cannot assume electronics and fragile solar panels will
last 25 or whatever years. High winds, lightning, flooding and other
natural events can turn that installation into junk. And unless the
homeowner's policy has a rider covering it, it'll be uninsured junk.
My homeowner's policy specifically excludes solar and wind generators
unless covered by an extra-cost rider.
If he decides to move (or is forced to by circumstances) in 5 years,
say, that loan comes due and his "investment" is kaput.
If spending that much money on solar panels makes one get the warm
fuzzies, that's fine. Just don't propose that path as a general
solution to future energy needs. It just ain't so and it sounds silly
to those without any political axes to grind nor statements to make.
John
PS: to stave off the inevitable testifying in reply, just for the
record, I'm not anti-solar. Indeed, I'd love to cut the ties to TVA.
I will do just that in a couple of years when I move to my country
property and install a micro-hydro plant on my lake. (I'd also like
to have a micro-nuke in my back yard but that's not likely to happen
anytime soon.) I simply insist that proposed simplistic "universal
solutions" actually make sense. Solar doesn't, at this point at
least.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Woodburn is literally in the middle of nowhere
just to chime in on the subject: I've very much wanted to attend
Woodburn for several years now, but always what kills it for me is
getting from Portland (or Salem) to Woodburn... the cost/incovenience of
getting there from the nearest train station always ends up killing it
for me - round trip from station-Woodburn costs as much as the train
ticket itself! (I'm living a very low budget life right now)... maybe
not a valid point in general application, but that's my personal story
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John:
I am confirming with the seller the coil voltage. It may be 56V not 12V. I
will let you know what I hear.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 10:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
Hi Rick,
I'm interested in 4
Address:
John G's BBQ Restaurant
220 S. Ocoee St
Cleveland, TN 37311
423 479 7885
Preferred shipper - anyone but UPS
Payment method - anything but paypal. plastic preferred, company check
second.
Thanks,
John
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:43:28 -0700, "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Anyone interested in Albright contactors for $50 each plus shipping?
>SW200A-678 (can anyone decipher the -678 part number code?) 12V coil
>I think these are rated 120VDC 250A continuous
>
>I bought one on eBay and the seller has Total qty available: 4939
>
>Let me know asap if you want any.
>- quantity
>- shipping address
>- preferred shipper
>- how you would like to pay (PayPal preferred)
>
>Rick Barnes
>Aloha, OR
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefano Landi wrote:
> >From the knowledge and experience gained by reading this discussion list I
> would be very skeptical about their range claims. Anybody got any comments?
The prices are pretty decent all things considered. Cheaper then a
Hyundai or KIA..
Someone pick one up and run it through it's paces!
Or go visit and get some pics of under the hood, under the vehicle,
and of the battery pack. These could potentially sell really good in
California considering the commute and pollution issues... Might sell
good elsewhere too.
Or get one and and put a Zilla and big motor in it! A brand new
factory EV that's been hotrodded! Make it run 11's.... !!!
If I had the money, I'd pick one up and do exactly that with it. It'd
even be for sale at cost and I'd use that money to build me another
just like it!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John:
I am confirming with the seller the coil voltage. It may be 56V not 12V. I
will let you know what I hear.
Rick
I enquired on these when the auction first came up and was told 56v.
Look before ya leap.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> I'd also like to have a micro-nuke in my back yard
That's something I've thought about too. Would it be profitable to
construct a nuclear power plant? If you got a loan to construct a
plant, could you earn a living off it? Wasn't the permit for the last
one ever built issued in like 1978 and it was completed in Arkansas in
the 1980's?
It would be neat to build a modern day plant. The quality of
materials compared to then and the power and reliability of
electronics anymore would make for a really impressive plant. It just
seems like with today's tig welders, and the quality and consistency
of today's metallurgy, all the stainless steel used in it would be
supreme.
Is there something about their fuel rods only lasting like 6 or 12
months before they have to change them out and that's why they produce
so much "waste"? Why don't the fuel rods last longer then that?
The "problem" the general public has with nuclear power plants is
mainly an issue of misunderstanding. I'm under the impression people
think the nuclear reaction itself and nothing more is what produces
the electricity and they also associate the process with a nuclear
bomb and think they are the same or don't know they are different. If
only they knew it was basically just a steam powered turbine plant..
The accident in Russia that one time was really just a steam boiler
explosion was it not? I'm still not clear on exactly what happened at
"3 mile island" way back when.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod and All,
The Sparrow does not have a low CG and is probably the worst
one to judge 3wheelers from as many warned Corbin that they would roll as high
and aft the CG was. Like an SUV, you don't want to make fast manuvers with a
Sparrow.
Take my E woody with a correct, low CG that has never been
even remotely near the point where one wheel comes off the ground in 10 yrs as
it should be if people designed their 3wheeler right.
For a comparsion, the Freeway is a better handling trike but
it has big problems too, just not as bad as the Sparrow.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I did a google search and came up with this,
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/02/04_olsond_exhibit/images/freeway_large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/02/04_olsond_exhibit/&h=225&w=300&sz=12&tbnid=yIS8lCQfqe8J:&tbnh=83&tbnw=111&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthree-wheeled%2BFreeway%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
Neat looking vehicle.
I have a new respect for 3 wheel vehicle performance
after rolling a Sparrow.
I was accelerating on loose gravel when the back end
fish tailed and caught pavement. It spinned to the
right and ended up rolling to the right far enough to
teter and right itself on 3 wheels. I was completely
rolled to the side, probably 100 degrees from
horizontal, but the Sparrow rocked back and landed on
all 3!!!. Even though it has a low CG, fishtailing
and catching dry pavement will make it roll. So, I am
much more conservative in my driving after that
incedent (P.S. it didn't help having all of the
awesome power of a Zilla 1K controlling acceleration!
especially when your sandles get stuck between the
accelerator and floorboard).
My recomendation for all 3 wheelers is to be carefull
while driving, fishtailing the back end is not good
when it catches dry pavement.
Rod
--- Larry Hays wrote:
> Im sure some of you remember the three-wheeled
> Freeway...how did it compare
> to the Sparrow in performance?
>
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have only got two responses so far - there must be
> more!
>
>
> I am taking a Lithium Battery poll to update the EV
> FAQ hosted by
> EVParts.com I will be collecting this information
> and David Brandt will
> edit and put it on the EV FAQ.
>
> Here are the questions:
>
> Lithium Battery Manufacturers
>
> -----------------------------
> addess these questions to Marc Kohler at Valence
technologies
> 1. Do you know of a Lithium battery manufacturer who
> sells EV specific
> batteries? What is their name and website?
> 2. Do you know who can they be ordered from? (e.g.
> is there a north
> American
> distributor?)
> 3. If possible, please list some specifics in terms
> of capacity, BMS,
> weight and price.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lithium Battery Users
>
> ---------------------
>
> 1. If you use Lithium batteries in your EV, what
> brand, type and size?
Valence U-charge 12v 40apm hour
> 2. What size is the pack,
48v now with hopes for 72v
and the type of your EV? pedal electric of combined
design some off shelf parts some of my own
> 3. What do you use for a BMS?
Valence comes with one for a fee
> 4. Do you need other energy technology to supplement
> Lithium?
right now no, maybe as the project progresses
> Caps, Lead Acid?
> 5. Other comments about using lithium technology
> still to new to rate
(experience, safety,
so far so good
> quality, would you do it again, etc.):
> Yes as i think we have to push the batt manufactures
to meet our needs and pay as we go development
just my 2 cents worth
in 6 mos i will know more I will try to update this
then
if I forget just call me at 619 980 2001 and ask i'll
be glad to share whatever i have learned by then but i
only read the list once a week and with all the new
activity and projected more as gas hits 3 and 4 per
gal i do lots of wholesale delition.
>
> keith
> thanks
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> <outbind://64/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Yahoo! for Good
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan, and All,
It's doubtful they will be able to sell them in the US other
than as a NEV limite to 25mph as they don't meet US standards!!! But we could
buy the EV drives !! So if Lawrence could check on them and their batt packs,
price would be nice.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Stefano Landi wrote:
> >From the knowledge and experience gained by reading this discussion list I
> would be very skeptical about their range claims. Anybody got any comments?
The prices are pretty decent all things considered. Cheaper then a
Hyundai or KIA..
Someone pick one up and run it through it's paces!
Or go visit and get some pics of under the hood, under the vehicle,
and of the battery pack. These could potentially sell really good in
California considering the commute and pollution issues... Might sell
good elsewhere too.
Or get one and and put a Zilla and big motor in it! A brand new
factory EV that's been hotrodded! Make it run 11's.... !!!
If I had the money, I'd pick one up and do exactly that with it. It'd
even be for sale at cost and I'd use that money to build me another
just like it!
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think your best bet is to use a 3500 lb trailer axle hub with a vented
brake disc. You will need a custom 1.375 axle and custom spacers to center
the wheel and give the grease seals a surface to bear upon. You should be
able to use the same seal on both sides. Since the rear wheel will not have
a chain you do not need to make it adjustable back and forth. The legs of
the swingarm could be 1.375 ID tubing.
I would either double nut the threaded end of the axle to hold the tapered
roller bearings adjustment or use a castellated nut and cotter pin. I would
also horizontally slit the back of the 1.375 ID tubing and weld on some
vertical 5/16 ID tubing to create a pinch bolt set up for tightly clamping
the axle after the end play has been adjusted. I would make the 1.375
tubing at least 2" on each side and have two pinch bolts per side. This will
keep the axle from being able to rotate.
I would probably use a 4 piston racecar type caliper from somebody like
Wilwood. This will simplify the mounting. You need to be sure and design the
caliper mounting so that removal of the wheel does not require disconnecting
the brake line. A 15" wheel would probably help this.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: Rear wheel recommendations
> I want to convert a FWD to a trike. The single rear wheel will have to
> carry twice the load and a bit more if I add batteries in the trunk for a
> hybrid.
>
> y question: Where can I find a wide 'motorcycle type' wheel that will
carry
> a 105 load index tire (or better) and which can be mounted in a swing arm
> fork with a bearing on both sides?
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts writes:
>
> The accident in Russia that one time was really just a steam boiler
> explosion was it not? I'm still not clear on exactly what happened at
> "3 mile island" way back when.
Ryan,
Chernobyl may have had "just a steam boiler explosion", but that caused
a second explosion that released about 8 tons of radioactive material
into the surrounding area. That area is now a dead zone.
Ralph
=====
Extracted from
http://www.engineering.com/content/ContentDisplay?contentId=41009009:
01:23:40 The emergency button (AZ-5) was pressed by the operator. Control rods
started to enter the core.
The insertion of the rods from the top concentrated all of the reactivity in
the bottom of the core.
01:23:44 Reactor power rose to a peak of about 100 times the design value.
01:23:45 Fuel pellets started to shatter, reacting with the cooling water to
produce a pulse of high pressure in the fuel channels.
01:23:49 Fuel channels ruptured.
01:24 Two explosions occurred. One was a steam explosion; the other
resulted from the expansion of fuel vapor.
The explosions lifted the pile cap, allowing the entry of air. The air
reacted with the graphite moderator blocks to form carbon monoxide. This
flammable gas ignited and a reactor fire resulted.
Results
Some 8 of the 140 tones of fuel, which contained plutonium and other highly
radioactive materials (fission products), were ejected from the reactor
along with a portion of the graphite moderator, which was also radioactive.
These materials were scattered around the site. In addition, caesium and
iodine vapors were released both by the explosion and during the subsequent
fire.
=====
Extracted from http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/chapter1.html
(click on the "next page" links at the bottoms of the pages to follow the
whole story).
At 1:23 AM, the operator moved to shut down the reactor in its low power
mode and a domino effect of previous errors caused an sharp power surge,
triggering a tremendous steam explosion which blew the 1000 ton cap on the
nuclear containment vessel to smithereens.
Some of the 211 control rods melted and then a second explosion, whose
cause is still the subject of disagreement among experts, threw out
fragments of the burning radioactive fuel core and allowed air to rush in -
igniting several tons of graphite insulating blocks.
Once graphite starts to burn, its almost impossible to extinguish. It took
9 days and 5000 tons of sand, boron, dolomite, clay and lead dropped from
helicopters to put it out. The radiation was so intense that many of those
brave pilots died.
=====
More info:
- http://www.dne.bnl.gov/atd-mag/chernobyl.html#Chernobyl
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
okay, I'm beginning to understand from this and an offlist reply from
Bruce Wiesenberger (thanks). A contactor controller basically steps up
the voltage in discrete amounts instead of a smooth progression as you'd
get form a PWM type controller, right? So with a couple of voltage
levels through the contactor controller and a few gears in the tranny
you can dial in the speed you want. Obviously, its a bit different style
of driving than we're used to. What about wear and tear on the contactor
and motor parts from sudden jumps in voltage? not to mention shock to
the drivetrain (and your neck?) from this? if its a resistor thing, what
about using potentiometers? I'll go back to google and see what I can
find and thanks for your explanations.
Andrew
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Andrew and All,
Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Stefano and All,
Stefano Landi wrote:
Hi everyone,
Just passing on some information and a link.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
While usable, not eff as a reg series motor which would be better. They have one, a 48vdc GE at $339 that would power most anything but you are getting close to new prices for a very used unit.
Check your local Fork lift, motor repair shops for orphaned, out of date , thus cheap motors. I have a rule, never pay more than $100 for one. Amd make sure it works by taking a battery, jumper cables with spare battery cables to hok it up for test.
Jim Husted may have some like this. I like GE as they usually are fairly eff
though only a little more. Some like the one you noted and the Prestolites are
only 75% eff vs others are 80-82% eff.
Of course, the E tek if a very small EV or 2-4 of them for a larger EV may be
fairly eff letting you use less batteries or more range.
This seems to fit right in with our other thread on low-cost conversion.
Can these evolks guys be too good to be true? $1500 complete conversion
Yes but you can do it much lower than that with just a little work,
probably under $500.
kit? They mention using a contactor and shifting to control speed
instead of a PWM controller at 36 volts, does this kind of rig work for
higher voltage too?
Up to 96vdc as higher than that the contactors get pricy.
I'm very confused by all this as it seems to me that
using just a contactor would give you either all on or all off type
performance. so basically you're flooring it or not and using the tranny
to control speed? wouldn't that be dangerous? what am I missing here?
Speeds !! You have several speeds with a resistor for starting at 1/2
or 1/4 voltage and then voltage up to full voltage. If you have 2 motors you
can series/parallel, as you would the battery pack, them for another speed. Add
the trans gears and you have a very controllable drive. Though I only use 2
electric speeds on my 45mph at 36vdc E woody without a problem. It is quite
easy to get 3-8 speeds with a contactor controller for as much control as you
want.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Andrew
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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At 08:19 PM 14/09/05 -0500, you wrote:
Neon John wrote:
> I'd also like to have a micro-nuke in my back yard
That's something I've thought about too. <snip>
It would be neat to build a modern day plant. <snip>
Sure would be neat, the engineers could make a plant that is very safe
(until an earthquake or some other major external event that had not been
anticipated occurs and circumvents the safety systems). The more plants,
the more risk of these events having serious consequences. But the Japanese
have nuclear plants in earthquake zones, with low incident rates, so it is
not insurmountable.
Is there something about their fuel rods only lasting like 6 or 12
months before they have to change them out and that's why they produce
so much "waste"? Why don't the fuel rods last longer then that?
From my understanding the rate of uranium decay (which is what produces
the heat) is such that the rods cannot produce sufficient heat beyond a
certain point. They then get reprocessed to re-concentrate the radioactive
material again. But the reprocessing has unwelcome byproducts. The ships
that have nukes as their steam generators get the rods to last a lot longer
- 10 to 20 years, but they are kept a lot more under control, so don't
decay as quickly.
The "problem" the general public has with nuclear power plants is
mainly an issue of misunderstanding. I'm under the impression <snip> If
only they knew it was basically just a steam powered turbine plant..
Except would you want your children and their children for 10,000 years to
have to deal with radioactive waste from our generators? That is the issue
as I am aware of it, and until we can 'inert' the waste, or re-use it for
other purposes (indefinately) it will continue to be a problem. One
radioactive source from a Western Australian mine slurry density gauge got
into a scrap metal stream. It contaminated the scrap plant to the extent
the recycling plant was removed and dumped into the ocean. I don't have any
references to this, but it was told to me by an engineer from a company
that makes nuclear density gauges that I did some work with. One small slip
with nuclear material is far worse than a battery being landfilled (for
example).
The accident in Russia that one time was really just a steam boiler
explosion was it not?
Not (more below)
I'm still not clear on exactly what happened at
"3 mile island" way back when.
The Chernobyl explosion was when an old-style plant had a melt-down - they
couldn't cool the core enough when something went wrong and it burned its'
way through the bottom of the plant until it hit the groundwater, turning
the groundwater into steam that escaped through the radioactive material
ejecting part of that material into the atmosphere as it went, irradiating
something like 100 miles around the plant to levels higher than human
survivability - but many animals can and do live there OK, and so it is now
a haven for wildlife. The UK nearly had the same thing happen in the 1950s,
with the same style of plant. 3-mile island threatend to do the same, but
they got it under control, I don't know many of the details about that.
Fusion is the way to go with nuclear - but you won't have one of those in
your back yard.
Now back to EVs
James - in the country that mines and exports Uranium, but only has one
reactor for scientific and medical purposes (need them for that!)
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>From what I've undestood and this is just my $0.02 doesn't a contactor-type
controller put strain on the batteries, draining some more than others. Of
what I've read about battery pack balance this can cause early failure of
batteries and ultimately cost more than having gone with a PWM controller
which draws current from all the batteries simultaneously and keeps the pack
more balanced. Any comments from others?
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
On 9/14/05, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> okay, I'm beginning to understand from this and an offlist reply from
> Bruce Wiesenberger (thanks). A contactor controller basically steps up
> the voltage in discrete amounts instead of a smooth progression as you'd
> get form a PWM type controller, right? So with a couple of voltage
> levels through the contactor controller and a few gears in the tranny
> you can dial in the speed you want. Obviously, its a bit different style
> of driving than we're used to. What about wear and tear on the contactor
> and motor parts from sudden jumps in voltage? not to mention shock to
> the drivetrain (and your neck?) from this? if its a resistor thing, what
> about using potentiometers? I'll go back to google and see what I can
> find and thanks for your explanations.
>
> Andrew
>
> jerry dycus wrote:
> > Hi Andrew and All,
> >
> > Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > jerry dycus wrote:
> >
> >>Hi Stefano and All,
> >>
> >>Stefano Landi wrote:
> >>Hi everyone,
> >>
> >>Just passing on some information and a link.
> >>
> >>
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
> >>
> >>
> >>While usable, not eff as a reg series motor which would be better. They
> have one, a 48vdc GE at $339 that would power most anything but you are
> getting close to new prices for a very used unit.
> >>Check your local Fork lift, motor repair shops for orphaned, out of date
> , thus cheap motors. I have a rule, never pay more than $100 for one. Amd
> make sure it works by taking a battery, jumper cables with spare battery
> cables to hok it up for test.
> >>Jim Husted may have some like this. I like GE as they usually are fairly
> eff though only a little more. Some like the one you noted and the
> Prestolites are only 75% eff vs others are 80-82% eff.
> >>Of course, the E tek if a very small EV or 2-4 of them for a larger EV
> may be fairly eff letting you use less batteries or more range.
> >
> >
> > This seems to fit right in with our other thread on low-cost conversion.
> > Can these evolks guys be too good to be true? $1500 complete conversion
> >
> >
> > Yes but you can do it much lower than that with just a little work,
> probably under $500.
> >
> >
> >
> > kit? They mention using a contactor and shifting to control speed
> > instead of a PWM controller at 36 volts, does this kind of rig work for
> > higher voltage too?
> >
> > Up to 96vdc as higher than that the contactors get pricy.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm very confused by all this as it seems to me that
> > using just a contactor would give you either all on or all off type
> > performance. so basically you're flooring it or not and using the tranny
> > to control speed? wouldn't that be dangerous? what am I missing here?
> >
> > Speeds !! You have several speeds with a resistor for starting at 1/2 or
> 1/4 voltage and then voltage up to full voltage. If you have 2 motors you
> can series/parallel, as you would the battery pack, them for another speed.
> Add the trans gears and you have a very controllable drive. Though I only
> use 2 electric speeds on my 45mph at 36vdc E woody without a problem. It is
> quite easy to get 3-8 speeds with a contactor controller for as much control
> as you want.
> >
> > HTH's,
> >
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! for Good
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> >
> >
>
>
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The Sparrow may not have a low CG, I'm certaintly no
expert on that, although it does have 13 batteries, 7
under the seat and 6 up front pretty low. I would
like to see some real world numbers on CG for the
Sparrow versus the Freedom. I'm just curious as it
seems a spinning back wheel on a 3 wheeler that
catches pavement has a good chance to roll. I would
like to know the difference with a Freedom as to why
it won't roll. I don't claim to have any idea on what
it takes to make a 3 wheeler roll, but I would like to
see some real world numbers on the moment of inertia
and other factors that make these vehicles different.
Thanks for your insight.
Rod
--- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Rod and All,
> The Sparrow does not have a low CG
> and is probably the worst one to judge 3wheelers
> from as many warned Corbin that they would roll as
> high and aft the CG was. Like an SUV, you don't want
> to make fast manuvers with a Sparrow.
> Take my E woody with a correct,
> low CG that has never been even remotely near the
> point where one wheel comes off the ground in 10 yrs
> as it should be if people designed their 3wheeler
> right.
> For a comparsion, the Freeway is a
> better handling trike but it has big problems too,
> just not as bad as the Sparrow.
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
> Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I did a google search and came up with this,
>
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/02/04_olsond_exhibit/images/freeway_large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/02/04_olsond_exhibit/&h=225&w=300&sz=12&tbnid=yIS8lCQfqe8J:&tbnh=83&tbnw=111&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthree-wheeled%2BFreeway%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
> Neat looking vehicle.
> I have a new respect for 3 wheel vehicle performance
> after rolling a Sparrow.
> I was accelerating on loose gravel when the back end
> fish tailed and caught pavement. It spinned to the
> right and ended up rolling to the right far enough
> to
> teter and right itself on 3 wheels. I was completely
> rolled to the side, probably 100 degrees from
> horizontal, but the Sparrow rocked back and landed
> on
> all 3!!!. Even though it has a low CG, fishtailing
> and catching dry pavement will make it roll. So, I
> am
> much more conservative in my driving after that
> incedent (P.S. it didn't help having all of the
> awesome power of a Zilla 1K controlling
> acceleration!
> especially when your sandles get stuck between the
> accelerator and floorboard).
> My recomendation for all 3 wheelers is to be
> carefull
> while driving, fishtailing the back end is not good
> when it catches dry pavement.
> Rod
>
> --- Larry Hays wrote:
>
> > Im sure some of you remember the three-wheeled
> > Freeway...how did it compare
> > to the Sparrow in performance?
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina
> relief effort.
>
>
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James Massey wrote:
> until an earthquake
If it's built right, the foundation and structure won't fail under
those conditions.
> Except would you want your children and their children for 10,000 years to
> have to deal with radioactive waste from our generators? That is the issue
> as I am aware of it, and until we can 'inert' the waste, or re-use it for
> other purposes (indefinately) it will continue to be a problem.
I thought they were going to put it all in the "Yucca Mountain" site
until some day when something can be done with it?
http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/ymp/index.shtml
Is radiation like magnetics in the sense that you can magnetize
something and then demagnetize it? Surely there is a way to deradiate
something..
----
While I'm thinking about it. Fuel cells remind me of solar cells. A
chemical reaction or conversion taking place in each of them? Look at
the power outputs of both of them. Don't fuel cells put out like 1/2
a volt or 3/4 volt each and about the same or less for amps? You
could stack them up to 300+ volts, but you'd always be hurting for
more amps no matter what voltage you ran.
Will solar cells ever improve(doubt it)? I feel the same about fuel cells.
Lets say someone bought enough fuel cells to rig up a 300 volt system.
Is it going to be able to handle the output if a bunch of little 1/2
volt units are hooked up in series?
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