EV Digest 4716
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Lithium Battery Users?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Practical payback???
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Lithium Battery Users?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Lithium Battery Users?
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Lithium Battery Users?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: DC-DC for lights only?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NEDRA Records for 2005
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Practical payback???
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Plasma Cutter
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lithium Battery Users?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Need Fuses
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 72V GE EV-1, was: Re: Contactor Controllers, was:
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Practical payback???
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Lithium Battery Users?
by Deven Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) voltage = speed? (newbie)
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Lithium Battery Users?
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Lithium Battery Users?
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Keith ,,, I have been testing 4 Lithium batteries in one of my cars in
series with 18 excide orbitals but as I've sighed a NDA agreement I can't
say to much . To me they seem very remarkable , so light , and small , so
far they have been doing what they said they would , ,,,,,, are they going
to last , that is the question ,. One way to get a lot of testing done on
them would be if people added just one to there pack , yes it would have to
have it own BMS and charger but as you replaced you lead batteries as the
years go buy you would have first hand info on there performance . How many
times you replaced you lead batteries while still using the same Li-ion
battery or cell . Will they last 5 time as long ? If so than the price per
cycle is close to what orbitals cost . I'm pretty sure I'm going to be using
them for my mower project for a few reasons ,
1 I may be cycling them 5 to 10 times a day , not deep cycles but as each
yard I cut could use's 30 ah , right now I'm looking at a 130 ah battery (
maybe run a 72v set up with 6 of them ) .
2 I'll get some first hand experience with them , and what might take 10 to
20 year in cycling I may be doing in 2 to 4 years , still along time .
3 I won't have to get a whole car load of them , I might even try different
types , and make the lawn mower a battery test bed ,
The money thing is interesting , if they sold golf cart batteries that where
2 time the size and 4 time the weight and only lasted 80 cycles but cost $6
would anybody use them in EV's ? well then why a battery that is 1/2 size
1/4 weight last 5 time as long not a hot item. ? Its kind of the same thing
with EV's , they don't pay for them self's till you drive them many miles.
Because there aren't allot out there , nobody wants to be the first , I'll
wait till somebody else has one and see how they do . and then there are the
people who don't take proper care and when they stop working say there no
good . am I talking about Li-ion batteries or EV's , seems allot applies to
both.
If lead batteries weight even twice what they do now ( for the same wh )
think how this would have hurt EV's , there very well might not be any. So
could a battery that is so light make ev's take off. Hold on I feel a EVTV
commercial coming on . a shot of a mob of people shouting "TWICE THE RANGE
AND HALF THE WEIGHT , twice the range and half the weight" . More shots of
different mobs with arms waving . "TWICE THE ,,,,,," then the rabbet with
the drum , "Lithium Ion , we got what you want baby. " .
Steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: Lithium Battery Users?
I have only got two responses so far - there must be
more!
I am taking a Lithium Battery poll to update the EV
FAQ hosted by
EVParts.com I will be collecting this information
and David Brandt will
edit and put it on the EV FAQ.
Here are the questions:
Lithium Battery Manufacturers
-----------------------------
addess these questions to Marc Kohler at Valence
technologies
1. Do you know of a Lithium battery manufacturer who
sells EV specific
batteries? What is their name and website?
2. Do you know who can they be ordered from? (e.g.
is there a north
American
distributor?)
3. If possible, please list some specifics in terms
of capacity, BMS,
weight and price.
Lithium Battery Users
---------------------
1. If you use Lithium batteries in your EV, what
brand, type and size?
Valence U-charge 12v 40apm hour
2. What size is the pack,
48v now with hopes for 72v
and the type of your EV? pedal electric of combined
design some off shelf parts some of my own
3. What do you use for a BMS?
Valence comes with one for a fee
4. Do you need other energy technology to supplement
Lithium?
right now no, maybe as the project progresses
Caps, Lead Acid?
5. Other comments about using lithium technology
still to new to rate
(experience, safety,
so far so good
quality, would you do it again, etc.):
Yes as i think we have to push the batt manufactures
to meet our needs and pay as we go development
just my 2 cents worth
in 6 mos i will know more I will try to update this
then
if I forget just call me at 619 980 2001 and ask i'll
be glad to share whatever i have learned by then but i
only read the list once a week and with all the new
activity and projected more as gas hits 3 and 4 per
gal i do lots of wholesale delition.
keith
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
<outbind://64/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
______________________________________________________
Yahoo! for Good
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:19:24 -0500, Ryan Stotts
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Neon John wrote:
>
>> I'd also like to have a micro-nuke in my back yard
>
>That's something I've thought about too. Would it be profitable to
>construct a nuclear power plant? If you got a loan to construct a
>plant, could you earn a living off it? Wasn't the permit for the last
>one ever built issued in like 1978 and it was completed in Arkansas in
>the 1980's?
I think the last one licensed was Watts Bar Unit one near here but
don't hold me to that. Early 90s, I think.
I wasn't referring to a "nuclear plant" such as comes to mind today. I
was referring to a mini-nuke that would supply the power to a house or
cluster of houses. A few hundred kilowatts.
I would design it as a solid core, sub-critical, accelerator
stimulated reactor. This type of reactor cannot sustain a nuclear
reaction but can achieve neutron multiplication when stimulated with a
neutron beam. The power level is controlled directly by the intensity
of the neutron beam.
Suitable accelerator-based neutron generators are now available that
can be held in the arms of a single man. The whole contraption would
fit in a large dog house. The entire thing including shielding and
multiple containment vessels would fit in half a 1 car garage.
This sort of device can be designed to be intrinsically safe,
incapable of melting or suffering an excursion under any condition.
The decay heat would be minimal and handled passively (solid to air
heat sink.) The heat would be removed for use by hot water or low
pressure (couple hundred psi) steam.
The fuel load would be measured in pounds of oxide and would last for
generations. At the end of life, the whole unit would be picked up
and trucked or railed to the recycling facility.
>Is there something about their fuel rods only lasting like 6 or 12
>months before they have to change them out and that's why they produce
>so much "waste"? Why don't the fuel rods last longer then that?
Generally 18 month refueling cycles for US plants. About 1/3 of the
core is replaced at each refueling. The burn-up (amount of
fissionable material consumed) is in the 2-5% range.
"waste" in this context is a purely political matter. Many years ago
I did a calculation that illustrated that during 18 months of
operation of a plant the size of Sequoyah (1200mwe, 2500mwt), about 10
gallons of radioactive material is produced as fission product. It
is, of course, mixed in with about 100 tons of other material in the
fuel.
Separated out so that the other 95 to 98% of the fuel could be used
again, this amount of material doesn't present too much of a challenge
to deal with. In fact, it would generate enough high quality heat
from radioactive decay that it could be used for oh, 100 years or so
as a source of industrial heat. The heat output would decay much
slower as time went by until only the very long lived (10,000 years
and beyond) isotopes were left. Sitting in air, the material would be
warm (I've seen the calc on how warm but I can't recall it) but not
hot. The radiation would be almost all alpha and beta, shielded with
a couple of pieces of paper and a few inches of air respectively.
The Yucca Flats "waste disposal site" is a huge boondoggle that I
oppose. (shock and amazement that a nuke would be opposed :-) First
off, it's a huge waste of a valuable resource (spent fuel.) Second,
it isn't necessary. Though the plant operators bitch about it,
they've done a marvelous job of on-site storage at each plant. This
is more than adequate until the collective will of the country changes
to allow recycling of the fuel. Third, the project is one of the
worst managed, pork laden ones I'm aware of. I hope Congress manages
to kill it before too many more $billions$ are wasted.
>The "problem" the general public has with nuclear power plants is
>mainly an issue of misunderstanding. I'm under the impression people
>think the nuclear reaction itself and nothing more is what produces
>the electricity and they also associate the process with a nuclear
>bomb and think they are the same or don't know they are different. If
>only they knew it was basically just a steam powered turbine plant..
These problems are many, somewhat complex and not amenable to sound
bites. Way too far off topic for this list, though I'll be glad to
discuss them in private.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> well then why is a battery that is 1/2 the size, 1/4 the weight, and lasts 5
> times >as long not a hot item?
Well the situation has been about two things. The batteries that have
been available that you speak of weren't 12 volt unit's. Just little
~3.7 volt units.
So now instead of just needing 28, AGM's for my car, I'd need ~90
lithium batteries for the same voltage. And instead of costing ~$2800
up front for the batteries, it'd cost ~$20,000.
Get lithium prices to be competitive with AGM's, then everyone on this
list might have lithium(when factoring in how long they last..).
I might need a higher voltage Zilla though to get AGM type current
draws from them. Especially if someone released some 12 volt or 36
volt lithium batteries..
Still, the unknown question: What is most likely the upper voltage
limit for EV's concerning safety? At ~900 volts, will someone say
"Danger Will Robinson, Danger"!
At what voltage when I go to tighten the terminals on my pack will it
jump out and get me?
What is the upper voltage limit that will still be useful with an AC
motor if an inverter was build with 1200 volt parts? How hard can
that 3 phase magnetic coil be driven?
Steve, send one of your "NDA" brand lithiums over to Madman and have
him do a short circuit test on it to see what they put out. ;) I
wanna know. For the price, I'd hope they put out.
What's their reason for their prices?
Do they have any of that ~$60,000/ton cobalt in them?
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=877
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I've seen date codes as far back as 1995 on the ADC 8 " motors on the few I've
seen, so these are getting to be an older motor. The parts are at least
currently still being made, and I'm sure they are still producing full motors.
I'm sure that Warfield is building new units also. As far as the latest units
are concerned as a rebuilder I'm usually a couple of years from seeing them
with warranty coverage and such. I did have a case once where I called Advance
and Dan said how do you have that motor we just started building them six
months ago? Few understand the zeal my customers have toward destroying
motors, lol. As to the 15 inch monster I'll measure my sand blast cabinet to
see what the largest GE Hyster diameter was. I had to beat it in and the
opening is now at that width, lol. What I'd like to know is what you would do
with 450 lbs of motor?? Would you have the juice needed to get it to speed??
Hopefully we will see what the 13 " Allis Chalmers inter-poled motor will do
with Purple phase, and wether it can get up to speed quickly enough. That is
if we can get John out of the Zombie and working on the truck, hehehe.
As far as AC forklifts there are a few models out there and they seem to be
finding really good reviews from Winco Dist. in Woodburn. Sysco Foods in
Wilsonville has a couple and will be getting some new AC pallet jacks soon and
we'll see what they are like. They seem to be handling the low volts well,
maybe better than the DC. On another note they are getting better at some of
the newer DC units and some makers are now back to DC, go figure.
As far as what I'm looking to do is take proven design types and repair them,
adding modifications to customer request, while at the same time keeping them
from the scrap yard and hopefully provide them to some good homes, where there
owners know how to charge a battery!!!
By the way These 9 inch cores I've located are in mint condition and will have
new ADC DE plates and shafts.
Know that as time and money allow there will be many a tweeked motor being sent
to Rich's dyno for a little smoke and spin. I've spent 24 years moding
under-volters and have only been doing this overvolt madness a few months. As
summer ends and I have less to-do items on my list I'll be able to have more
time to addressing some new projects.
As for now the toothpicks are failing and I need a little shut eye.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim Husted wrote:
>A lot of forklifts use smaller dual drive motors, which have replaced
the older >larger single motor types. The latest models are now using
medium sized single >drives
Hmm... That makes me wonder.
When was the last time a brand new 15" motor was ever built? What's
just a guess at how many of those were ever built in total?
When was the last time a brand new 13" or 11" motor was built, or are
they still being produced?
Are brand new 9" and 8" motors still being made, or are we using
discontinued products these days with a limited number of them
floating around(how many might be out there)? Can you build motors
from "raw materials" or order all the parts to build a motor from
starting just with brand new parts? Could you build a motor for less
then it would cost to buy one completed online?
Specifically, what types and sizes of motors are in the various brands
2005 and 2006 model lifts? What's 2007-8 look like for the lift
industry if you have that type of info?
Seen any or many AC forks? Think they will catch on?
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Steve (and all others)
I think the point is the following: If some company would offer some kind
of a 'drop in' replacement for our floodies or assembled battery packs
including charger in a way that would enable us to bolt it into place and
start driving, I (and I guess a lot others) would pay significantly more.
Its just that IF I pay some serious money for a battery pack, I don't want
to play (or fool) around with assembly, heat issues or charging profiles.
Why is it so complicated to pack some Lithiums in one of those usual
lead/acid sizes, include some heat management and BMS and voila, there's
your new battery. Dump the floodies, put those new batteries in, maybe
even add some plumbing for water cooling (if necessary) and that's it. I
would buy those batteries in a flash.
As usual, just my 2 cents.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For 90 bucks I'll take a chance. No one has complained of one of the Iota
units going south. They are supposed to take a spike of 190v and has
brownout protection. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
If you want truely EV grade ones, may I suggest consider these?:
http://www.metricmind.com/dcdc.htm
Victor
Cwarman wrote:
So Lee,
I would be better off with a DC DC converter made with a EV in mind...
Whats your recommendation ?
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1. Saft.
http://www.saftbatteries.com/000-corporate/include-content/index_gb.html
2. SAFT America
3.
ELECTRICAL CHARACTERISTICS VL7P VL20P VL30P
Nominal voltage (V) 3,6 3,6 3,6
Average capacity 1C after charge to 4.0 V/cell (Ah) 7 20 30
Minimum capacity 1C after charge to 4.0 V/cell (Ah) 6,5 18,5 28
Specific energy after charge to 4.0 V/cell (Wh/kg) 67 89 97
Energy density after charge to 4.0 V/cell (Wh/dm3) 131 187 209
Specific power (10s/50% DOD) (W/kg) 1811 1413 1136
Power density (10s/50% DOD) (W/dm3) 3526 2974 2451
Mechanical characteristics VL7P VL20P VL30P
Diameter (mm) 41 54 54
Height (mm) 145 163 222
Typical weight (kg) 0,37 0,80 1,1
Volume (dm3) 0,19 0,38 0,51
Voltage limits
Charge (V) 4.0 (4.1 for peak)
Discharge (V) 2.5 (2.0 for cold cranking)
Current limits VL7P VL20P VL30P
Max continuous current (A) 100 250 300
Max peak current during 10s (A) 250 500 500
characteristics
Nominal voltage (V) 3.6
Average capacity C/3 after charge to 4.0 V/cell (Ah) 45
Minimum capacity C/3 after charge to 4.0 V/cell (Ah) 42
Specific energy after charge to 4.0 V/cell (Wh/kg) 149
Energy density after charge to 4.0 V/cell (Wh/dm3) 313
Specific power (30s peak/50% DOD) (W/kg) 664
Power density (30s peak/50% DOD) (W/dm3) 1392
Mechanical characteristics
Diameter (mm) 54.3
Height (mm) 222
Typical weight (kg) 1.07
Volume (dm3) 0.51
Voltage limits
Charge (V) 4.0 (4.1 for peak)
Discharge (V) 2.7 (2.3 for peak)
Current limits
Max continuous current (A) 100
Max peak current during 30 s (A) 250
When I talked to them, they want to build a module specific to our
application with the BMS built into the monoblock. The NRE cost killed
consideration for their product because the quantity was too low.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 7:09 AM
Subject: Lithium Battery Users?
> I have only got two responses so far - there must be more!
>
>
> I am taking a Lithium Battery poll to update the EV FAQ hosted by
> EVParts.com I will be collecting this information and David Brandt will
edit
> and put it on the EV FAQ.
>
> Here are the questions:
>
> Lithium Battery Manufacturers
>
> -----------------------------
>
> 1. Do you know of a Lithium battery manufacturer who sells EV specific
> batteries? What is their name and website?
> 2. Do you know who can they be ordered from? (e.g. is there a north
American
> distributor?)
> 3. If possible, please list some specifics in terms of capacity, BMS,
weight
> and price.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lithium Battery Users
>
> ---------------------
>
> 1. If you use Lithium batteries in your EV, what brand, type and size?
> 2. What size is the pack, and the type of your EV?
> 3. What do you use for a BMS?
> 4. Do you need other energy technology to supplement Lithium? Super Caps,
> Lead Acid?
> 5. Other comments about using lithium technology (experience, safety,
> quality, would you do it again, etc.):
>
>
>
> thanks
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> <outbind://64/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a DC/DC that puts out 35w that only costs 5 bucks US> LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 4:26 PM
Subject: DC-DC for lights only?
G'day all,
Speaking of DC-DC converters: I'm considering a electric bike
conversion at 48V, and one of the things I'd like to eliminate is the
DC-DC converter. I can use 48V-compatible LED indicators, or wire
two 24V bulbs in series for the taillights, and there are no wipers,
radios, etc, to worry about on a bike.
Except, of course, for the headlight. On a small bike, this
is generally only a single 12V 55/60W halogen H4. Does anyone know if
I can run this at 48V if I switch it at say 20kHz, 0.25 duty cycle?
-----sharks on a budget ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian;
I was not aware that a 96 volt car could run in the 120 volt class for a 1/4
mile record.
I thought it had to run the 1/8 mile for a record.
I'm confused.
Enlighten me, please.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 5:50 PM
Subject: NEDRA Records for 2005
> new records posted this year:
> MC/F 1999 Geo Metro 96 volts
> Driver: Steve Nash
> Owner:Dave Cloud 14.531 92.13 Woodburn Nationals
> September 5,2005
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As a matter of fact that's the straw that made the deal work. It's about a
break even so I have the system and am not paying anymore than before maybe
a little less. It made sense. LR...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Practical payback???
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:03:45 -0700, Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Paid 12k. State paid other half. Not doing it only on cost but now I'm
really glad I did it. My bill is 10 dollars a month. Oh I do pay 100 on
the loan but that includes two cars too. LR.......
Hmm, 24k for a system with a payback measured in decades, if ever?
Practical to you, maybe but probably not for most others.
So by that logic I should rent my home and not buy it, since the payback
isn't immediate?
Since the home Appreciates and since uncle sugar practically pays one
to own a home, certainly not. OTOH, if the home behaved financially
like other consumer goods and lost value over time, then one would
have to do the calcs of rent vs buy to see which way made sense.
He borrows enough cash to install the system and it
reduces his electric bill by more than the amount of his monthly loan
payment. What's not practical; about that?
Did he? Not enough info provided to determine that. Even if he did
(using the entire price and not the uncle sugar version), assuming
such a long payback still does not make sense.
One simply cannot assume electronics and fragile solar panels will
last 25 or whatever years. High winds, lightning, flooding and other
natural events can turn that installation into junk. And unless the
homeowner's policy has a rider covering it, it'll be uninsured junk.
My homeowner's policy specifically excludes solar and wind generators
unless covered by an extra-cost rider.
If he decides to move (or is forced to by circumstances) in 5 years,
say, that loan comes due and his "investment" is kaput.
If spending that much money on solar panels makes one get the warm
fuzzies, that's fine. Just don't propose that path as a general
solution to future energy needs. It just ain't so and it sounds silly
to those without any political axes to grind nor statements to make.
John
PS: to stave off the inevitable testifying in reply, just for the
record, I'm not anti-solar. Indeed, I'd love to cut the ties to TVA.
I will do just that in a couple of years when I move to my country
property and install a micro-hydro plant on my lake. (I'd also like
to have a micro-nuke in my back yard but that's not likely to happen
anytime soon.) I simply insist that proposed simplistic "universal
solutions" actually make sense. Solar doesn't, at this point at
least.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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Would it be possible or practical $$ wise to either acquire new coils for
these in the correct voltage or rewind the existing ones?
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "mreish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:25 PM
Subject: RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
> >John:
> >
> >I am confirming with the seller the coil voltage. It may be 56V not 12V.
I
> >will let you know what I hear.
> >
> >Rick
>
> I enquired on these when the auction first came up and was told 56v.
>
> Look before ya leap.
>
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> Reverend Gadget:
>
> What's your take on 14" chop saws:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44829
>
I've got one of these that I bought from HF. The abrasive blades that HF
sells are pure [EMAIL PROTECTED] One cut through angle iron and the blade ends
up
loaded up with metal and starts melting the metal instead of cutting.
I switched to a Dewalt blade and it works ok. Still tends to load up with
metal. I think maybe the saw turns to slow or slows down too much when
cutting. Doesn't seem to matter how much, or how little, preasure I use
when cutting.
I suppose it's possible that I'm doing something wrong.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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Way cool Stefano,
You got skills kid. It looks like it could be some kind of taper lock setup.
Certainly worth a look. Actually I think I will just make one when I am
ready. Besides saving money I have a couple reasons for this. Looking at the
coupler and the motor on the surplus center site of possible concern is the
lack of bearing support on the drive end of the motor. It is similar if not
identical to the one I got with the Corbin adapter they both seem to have
the usual AC "torsion" shaft drive where the armature shaft is a tube
internally splined at the back end and the splined stub you see is actually
a floating shaft that goes thru the generator and drives the armature from
the "back" so to speak. I have seen this on many AC generators and have
never really come up with a good reason for doing it this way except as
either a cost cutting move (need a larger/smaller shaft you could just put
the right one in) or more likely as a psuedo "flex" drive. TTYL David.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
> Hi David,
>
> OK didn't find the pipe... yet! LOL. However, check out this image of that
> adapter sold by e-volks
>
> http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net/images/plate-coupler-contactor.jpg
>
> I took an image they had on their site and zoomed in, makes me feel like
I'm
> on CSI or something.
>
> LOL :)))
>
> Stefano
>
> On 9/14/05, jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andrew and All,
> >
> > Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > jerry dycus wrote:
> > > Hi Stefano and All,
> > >
> > > Stefano Landi wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > Just passing on some information and a link.
> > >
> > >
> >
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
> > >
> > >
> > > While usable, not eff as a reg series motor which would be better.
They
> > have one, a 48vdc GE at $339 that would power most anything but you are
> > getting close to new prices for a very used unit.
> > > Check your local Fork lift, motor repair shops for orphaned, out of
date
> > , thus cheap motors. I have a rule, never pay more than $100 for one.
Amd
> > make sure it works by taking a battery, jumper cables with spare battery
> > cables to hok it up for test.
> > > Jim Husted may have some like this. I like GE as they usually are
fairly
> > eff though only a little more. Some like the one you noted and the
> > Prestolites are only 75% eff vs others are 80-82% eff.
> > > Of course, the E tek if a very small EV or 2-4 of them for a larger EV
> > may be fairly eff letting you use less batteries or more range.
> >
> > This seems to fit right in with our other thread on low-cost conversion.
> > Can these evolks guys be too good to be true? $1500 complete conversion
> >
> >
> > Yes but you can do it much lower than that with just a little work,
> > probably under $500.
> >
> >
> >
> > kit? They mention using a contactor and shifting to control speed
> > instead of a PWM controller at 36 volts, does this kind of rig work for
> > higher voltage too?
> >
> > Up to 96vdc as higher than that the contactors get pricy.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm very confused by all this as it seems to me that
> > using just a contactor would give you either all on or all off type
> > performance. so basically you're flooring it or not and using the tranny
> > to control speed? wouldn't that be dangerous? what am I missing here?
> >
> > Speeds !! You have several speeds with a resistor for starting at 1/2 or
> > 1/4 voltage and then voltage up to full voltage. If you have 2 motors
you
> > can series/parallel, as you would the battery pack, them for another
speed.
> > Add the trans gears and you have a very controllable drive. Though I
only
> > use 2 electric speeds on my 45mph at 36vdc E woody without a problem. It
is
> > quite easy to get 3-8 speeds with a contactor controller for as much
control
> > as you want.
> >
> > HTH's,
> >
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! for Good
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium Battery Users?
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
well then why is a battery that is 1/2 the size, 1/4 the weight, and
lasts 5 times >as long not a hot item?
Well the situation has been about two things. The batteries that have
been available that you speak of weren't 12 volt unit's. Just little
~3.7 volt units.
The one's I have are in 12v units , they are the size of a lawn mower
battery at 12.5 lbs
So now instead of just needing 28, AGM's for my car, I'd need ~90
lithium batteries for the same voltage.
what amp hour are these 90 cells ,100 maybe ( from your price ) ? There
are also one's that come from another company in 12v units and I beleive
one the same size as AGM's , would have 130 ah , at 35 lbs , maybe sombody
will post the web site."-)
And instead of costing ~$2800
up front for the batteries, it'd cost ~$20,000.
well if we are talking the same ah then you would need 1/3 the Li = $7k and
say they only last twice as long as agm's making it $3,500 ( would replace 2
agm packe per life) so that's pretty close to the same price . or $130 for
you 12v 30 ah battery , except it weighs 12.5 lbs
or say a agm = our ts bat at 40 ah and is 4 cells 160 ah at $2ah = $ 320
now devide my 2 as we are hoping they last twice as long , and its down to
$160
Get lithium prices to be competitive with AGM's, then everyone on this
list might have lithium(when factoring in how long they last..).
alot has to do with the hi amp draw that they don't like , so you end up
with a car that has a 200 mile range so you can have the pick up you want.
I might need a higher voltage Zilla though to get AGM type current
draws from them.
remember its the motor amp that gives the pick up , I set my Porsche to 150
battery amps and it still had pick up at 264v , better than a 120v 400 amp
cirtis. seeing the amp meter reading 30 amps while going 35 mph .
Steve Clunn
Especially if someone released some 12 volt or 36
volt lithium batteries..
Still, the unknown question: What is most likely the upper voltage
limit for EV's concerning safety? At ~900 volts, will someone say
"Danger Will Robinson, Danger"!
At what voltage when I go to tighten the terminals on my pack will it
jump out and get me?
What is the upper voltage limit that will still be useful with an AC
motor if an inverter was build with 1200 volt parts? How hard can
that 3 phase magnetic coil be driven?
Steve, send one of your "NDA" brand lithiums over to Madman and have
him do a short circuit test on it to see what they put out. ;) I
wanna know. For the price, I'd hope they put out.
What's their reason for their prices?
Do they have any of that ~$60,000/ton cobalt in them?
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=877
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:49 PM 14/09/05 -0500, Jeff Wilson wrote:
I've been looking all over trying to find 180amp 200vdc fuses for my E-10.
Voltage isn't so much the issue as amperage. Does anyone have any idea
where these can be had? I've seen everything from 100 up to 800 in 50 and
100 amp increments but have been unable to locate 180 amp fuses. Help!!
Hi Jeff
A 200A fuse will blow slightly later than a 180A fuse. Make sure that the
fuse you get is rated for the DC voltage, or it may not 'clear' and cause a
fire. What happened to the previous fuse? if it 'random failed' a 200A fuse
may be more appropriate anyway.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:53 PM 14/09/05 -0500, Mike Chancey wrote:
<snip> Does anyone know if the GE EV-1 SCR controllers can be easily setup
to run on 72 volts? It would seem to me, a small motor from say some sort
of industrial vehicle, combined with an SCR controller, 72 volts worth of
T-105 golf cart batteries, and a 36 Volt golf cart charger rewired for 72
volts would make the basis for a very effective and fairly capable EV on a
very tight budget.
I have a 72V permutation of the EV-1. If anyone finds a 48V one, I may be
able to help 'spot the difference' to convert it to 72V. My one came from
an airport conveyor truck (after I had bought my Zilla).
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will either add a small DC/DC converter or rewind the coil,
depending on which is easier at the time I use 'em. Rewinding the
coil is certainly practical. Google for some good plans for motorized
coil winders. I've seen several, though I'll use the professional one
at my friendly local motor repair place.
John
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:41:31 -0700, "David Chapman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Would it be possible or practical $$ wise to either acquire new coils for
>these in the correct voltage or rewind the existing ones?
>
>David Chapman
>Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
>http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mreish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:25 PM
>Subject: RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
>
>
>> >John:
>> >
>> >I am confirming with the seller the coil voltage. It may be 56V not 12V.
>I
>> >will let you know what I hear.
>> >
>> >Rick
>>
>> I enquired on these when the auction first came up and was told 56v.
>>
>> Look before ya leap.
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/15/05, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Danny Miller wrote:
>
> > It will take hundreds or
> > thousands of years for the area to be acceptable again
>
> Interesting link:
>
> http://www.kiddofspeed.com/default.htm
>
>
That's made up, mostly. However, there *are* tourist trips to the area.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
Hey Steve (and all others)
I think the point is the following: If some company would offer some kind
of a 'drop in' replacement for our floodies or assembled battery packs
including charger in a way that would enable us to bolt it into place and
start driving, I (and I guess a lot others) would pay significantly more.
Its just that IF I pay some serious money for a battery pack, I don't want
to play (or fool) around with assembly, heat issues or charging profiles.
Why is it so complicated to pack some Lithiums in one of those usual
lead/acid sizes, include some heat management and BMS and voila, there's
your new battery. Dump the floodies, put those new batteries in, maybe
even add some plumbing for water cooling (if necessary) and that's it. I
would buy those batteries in a flash.
As usual, just my 2 cents.
mm.
The difference between the two is not just greater complexity of
putting together the pack (cooling and such). the price difference
would likely be astronomical. For comparison take the Optima yellow
top model D34/78 (12 volts, 55 amp hours, 45 pounds) at a cost of
US160. Now a 11.1v (individual Li Ion cells have a fixed voltage so
you cant get exactly 12v) 2.45AH lithium ion batery is US 100. so to
equal one yellow top you would have to plunk down 2200. thats not just
a littl extra thats an order of magnintude. on the other hand the Li
ion batter back would wiegh about 1/4 what the SLA battery weighs still
most people don't have pocketbooks that deep.
For refrence i got the Data for these batteries from these(Li-Ion
and Optima)
sources if I am grossly erroneous in my explanations pleas let me know.
as an aside I think that NiMH batteries would be a better in between
they behave more like NiCads and are about 1/6 the cost per Watt of
LiIon even if they are 2x the wieght it seems like a good medium.
BTW this is my first post in this mailing if my coments are completely
wrong lemmie know and Ill shut up... at least till I really know what
I'm saying. :)
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This must be clear for most of you, but the claim that high voltage =
high speed that I´ve seen in some posts, confuses me...
I have thought the speed depends on the power you have, and power =
voltage x amps. So why can´t I get the same speed with a low
voltage+high amp system that I get with a high voltage + low amp?
Thanks again,
Osmo Sarin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another link to a lithium battery supplier:
Http://www.gbp-battery.com
Hadnt heard of them till a couple of days ago, and have mailed them.
Got a quote back of $130 for a 40 ah cell. Im waiting for clarification
on the performance of these cells, since they include a simple bms like
device on each cell.
Trouble is I saw this post on the thundersky users group by Sam Thurber:
"We've purchased a sample order from this company with
very bad results. The company is a scam / shell
operation. The chinese portion is just a reseller of
someone elses product. They will want you to wire
money to a Hong Kong shell company whose phone number
is an answering service. Then they will request full
payment before shipment and will not accept a Letter
of Credit but may accept a local inspection (at a
hotel). If you do attempt to do business with them.
Make sure you meet them in person and take possesion
of all the product in person before payment. We
ordered 60AH cells and were sent 18AH cells and do not
expect to get the matter resolved. Local police do not
know of the company in China. It is likely a transient
backyard operation."
If that's the case then people should be made aware here too..
Anyone else know anything of these guys?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And another reply from gbp battery:
These cells? they are li-ion and not li-poly?
They are Li-ion batteries.
If that is the case, what is the recommended CONTINUOUS discharge rate,
without compromising cell life?
Our continuous discharge rate can be more than 6C.
Also same question, but for PEAK discharge?
It is 9C.
How do the cells internal resistance compare to the thundersky and kokam
cells, since the thundersky cells have too high an internal resistance,
meaning they are of no use to me. The kokam cells have a much lower
internal resistance and so handle high currents well. Unfortnately they
are very expensive.
Our internal impedence is less than 4mohm. Our quality is similar with
Kokam, but much better than Thunderksy's.
Finally what is the average lifespan, in cycles, for your cells?
Our battery's cycle life is more than 500 times.
If you could also give me this information, and a price, for your
lithium polymer cells, id be very grateful.
Currently we only have max 10Ah polymer single cell. If so, you need
320pcs 10Ah cells into 300V/40Ah packs. Can you accept it?
Thanks a lot for your assistance.
--- End Message ---
