EV Digest 4717
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Coax
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Freeway vs Sparrow and 3 wheel stability
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: GBP (was: Lithium Battery Users?)
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Transport Denver to San Jose, California
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: voltage = speed? (newbie)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: DC-DC for lights only?
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Plasma Cutter
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Rear wheel recommendations
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: voltage = speed? (newbie)
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Rear wheel recommendations
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Need Fuses
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Supplier survey
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Tributes
by Bryan B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Tributes
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Help with motor rating
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) The importance of tires?
by "stu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: NEDRA Records for 2005
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Need Fuses
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Battery 1x1
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Transport Denver to San Jose, California
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Plasma Cutter
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: The importance of tires?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/15/05, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> For slow stuff, I'd use plain old cheap acrylic plastic fiber...
> >> A superbright LED and phototransistor, attached to the fiber
> >> with heatshrink tubing...
>
> Shawn Rutledge wrote:
> > Is there a cheap device that has both in one housing?
>
> You mean an LED and light receiver? Yes, they do. They are generally
> built to be reflective light detectors.
>
> But every LED is also a photodiode. You need a high-gain opamp to
> convert the tiny photocurrent it generates into a useful signal, but it
> is a pretty simple circuit.
>
> > It's nice to have connectors rather than the fiber being permanently
> > attached, and I don't see why they have to be so expensive either.
>
> When I've done this trick, the heat shrink didn't shrink enough to
> literally lock the fiber to the LED -- it could just slide out. You need
> a second, smaller piece of heatshrink to lock the shrunk piece to the
> fiber.
One thing I've tried before is to drill a hole into the front of a 5mm
LED so that the fibre is a push fit. You can get get the fibre quite
close to the junction which makes for a better signal, and then you
can superglue it in place so that it's virtually impossible to remove.
If you were to use this technique for regulators, you could still make
it "plug and play" by mounting the LED inside the RCA (or other)
connector, on each end of the fibre.
It's still going to be difficult to implement a bus as capable as EVil
over fibre though!
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rod Hower wrote:
> I would
> like to see some real world numbers on CG for the
> Sparrow versus the Freedom.
I think Jerry is going to race his car with the Electric Imp in
autocross after he gets it built this month:
That's going to be a while !! let me build some first and getbthings
sorted out before I put in a bigger motor, ect and go racing. But I do expect
to do well, beating the Imp is a perrty hard nut to crack. I was going to do it
mostly for a comparison of data as he is well instrimented.
http://www.proev.com/
It will be an interesting race that's for sure..
Rod wrote
The Sparrow may not have a low CG, I'm certaintly no
expert on that, although it does have 13 batteries, 7
under the seat and 6 up front pretty low. I would
like to see some real world numbers on CG for the
Sparrow versus the Freedom
My CG is about 13" and the Sparrows looks to be about 20"+ My half
tread is about 28" where the Sparrows is about 18", Also my CG is just behind
the 2wheeler front axle where the Sparrow's is too far aft by at least 16".
Basicly my weight is 1/2 as high, closer to where it should be for and aft and
width almost twice as wide. My number compete or beat with the best sportscars.
. I'm just curious as it
seems a spinning back wheel on a 3 wheeler that
catches pavement has a good chance to roll. I would
like to know the difference with a Freedom as to why
it won't roll.
Because it will loose traction first before it can roll because
of it's excellent CG placement.
I don't claim to have any idea on what
it takes to make a 3 wheeler roll, but I would like to
see some real world numbers on the moment of inertia
and other factors that make these vehicles different.
Thanks for your insight.
My EV has almost no polar moment so inertia is not a problem
because of the concentrated CG weight that EV's allow due to the 55% or so
battery pack weight in the right spot. Too bad the Sparrow didn't do it right.
Too hard and long for me to do as I don't have exact Sparrow
numbers. But the difference from the above numbers can easily be seen by using
them in the formula's on Robert Q Riley's website under downloads, SAE papers
on 3wh and light car design.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Rod
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don´t know anything about this GBP, but take a look at the picture of
the building in the "Company profile" page: I think the letters GBP
were added to the picture afterwards...
Osmo
15.9.2005 kello 12:34, Lawrie, Robin kirjoitti:
Another link to a lithium battery supplier:
Http://www.gbp-battery.com
Hadnt heard of them till a couple of days ago, and have mailed them.
Got a quote back of $130 for a 40 ah cell. Im waiting for
clarification
on the performance of these cells, since they include a simple bms like
device on each cell.
Trouble is I saw this post on the thundersky users group by Sam
Thurber:
"We've purchased a sample order from this company with
very bad results. The company is a scam / shell
operation. The chinese portion is just a reseller of
someone elses product. They will want you to wire
money to a Hong Kong shell company whose phone number
is an answering service. Then they will request full
payment before shipment and will not accept a Letter
of Credit but may accept a local inspection (at a
hotel). If you do attempt to do business with them.
Make sure you meet them in person and take possesion
of all the product in person before payment. We
ordered 60AH cells and were sent 18AH cells and do not
expect to get the matter resolved. Local police do not
know of the company in China. It is likely a transient
backyard operation."
If that's the case then people should be made aware here too..
Anyone else know anything of these guys?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello list,
I may have need for a transport from Denver, CO to San Jose, CA
these will be batteries for a total of over 1500 lb, so I don't
want to run this load in a Prius ;-)
Anybody travelling from CO to CA with some load capacity?
CTS quote is $900
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:25 PM 15/09/05 +0300, Osmo Sarin wrote:
This must be clear for most of you, but the claim that high voltage = high
speed that I´ve seen in some posts, confuses me...
I have thought the speed depends on the power you have, and power =
voltage x amps. So why can´t I get the same speed with a low voltage+high
amp system that I get with a high voltage + low amp?
Hi Osmo
In order to get high speed (or more particularly high rate of
acceleration), you need high power. Whilst it is correct that power is
power, high amps, low volts is as able to give the same power as low amps,
high volts, BUT...
Most of the losses and costs are incurred from the amps. Double the voltage
requires same cable size, same controller size (but more expensive power
components), a little more expense with contactors and similar, and the
motor will be able to be driven to high RPM.
Double the amps requires double the cable size, more expensive fuses, more
expensive controller (nearly twice the price) etc, and you end up with four
times the resistive power losses (double the current through a resistor
doubles the voltage = 4 x power loss).
So the cheapest and lightest way is more volts, allow the motor to rev
higher (particularly so with DC powered vehicles, AC are usually fully
designed - with AC you buy a predetermined solution more so than with DC).
But it is a balancing act - more volts adds more complexities in one way,
but more amps can make a lower voltage system more complex too. If your
vehicle needs x amount of power to achieve something, there are a wide
number of ways to achieve it.
Take White Zombie as an example. John Wayland is increasing the horsepower
(in order to increase the maximum speed and the accelleration rate) by
increasing the voltage. Why? because to deliver more power some of his
choices are as follows:
1) Rewind the motors to a lower voltage (also requiring bigger brush
capacity for the higher currents) and change the diff ratio to match the
lower motor RPM.
2) Change the motors and the diff similarly.
3) Allow more amps at lower RPMs (risking cooking the motors) and change
the diff ratio to gain speed advantage.
4) weaken the field currents of the motors to make them rev higher -
increase the RPMs of the point where the controller comes out of current limit.
5) Increase the voltage to make the motors rev higher.
Of course, #5 is an incremental way of improving things with smaller
changes. The controller will only allow a predetermined motor amps up until
the point where the 'slope' between the battery voltage and the motor
voltage is insufficient to deliver that current. Increasing the battery
volts will increase the RPMs where that occurs. The series/paralell setup
allows his motors to both get (I think) 2000A all the way up to that point
- at which the batteries are delivering directly to the motors. If the
motors each had their own 2000A controller, the batteries would be being
asked to deliver 4000A at that point.
Osmo, I hope this gives you an idea as to why the voltage is determined
(used in practice) as the speed/power indicator, rather than current.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't personally. If it doesn't burnout immediately, it likely
will fairly quickly. In some states it is against the law for a
motorcycle or bike to have more than one "main" head light. This is
supposedly to let the drivers know that it is a motorcycle coming at
them and not a car "really" far away.
Personally, I don't understand this. But if it is *not* illegal where
you are, you could get away with 4 12v bulbs in series. More light than
you need if you use "big" ones but you could always use smaller ones.
One trick I saw a guy here do for his custom build motorcycle is he
custom made a bell housing out of fiberglass and had the inside
mirrored. He then put 3-4 (don't remember) superbright 12 bulbs in it
(like tail light bulbs) and it did a pretty good job.
James
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 09:26 +1000, Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote:
> G'day all,
>
> Speaking of DC-DC converters: I'm considering a electric bike
> conversion at 48V, and one of the things I'd like to eliminate is the
> DC-DC converter. I can use 48V-compatible LED indicators, or wire
> two 24V bulbs in series for the taillights, and there are no wipers,
> radios, etc, to worry about on a bike.
>
> Except, of course, for the headlight. On a small bike, this
> is generally only a single 12V 55/60W halogen H4. Does anyone know if
> I can run this at 48V if I switch it at say 20kHz, 0.25 duty cycle?
>
> -----sharks on a budget ...
>
--
James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Charlotte Country Day School
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just purchased 44829 for $59.95 at HF.
It is quite robust and side to side comparison with a Makita looks OK.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44829
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Plasma Cutter
Reverend Gadget:
What's your take on 14" chop saws:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44829
And metal cutting circular saws:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=8897
Opinions/tips/experiences?
I bought one of these "metal cutting" bandsaw's years ago on sale for
$160 and I cut everything with it and have never had any problems with
it:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37151
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ray,
Thanks for your input and your suggestions.
1> Is a 3500 lb trailer axle stub 1750 lb on each side?
2> In fact, I was planning to use a chain, making it a hybrid. With the
rear wheel aft the rear bumper, the trunk is now a battery box. Also, there
is a little room where the rear wheels were located. With an extended
fender like that on 2 wheel per side pickups, perhaps as much as 4 batteries
per side may be possible.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ray Brooks
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 9:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Rear wheel recommendations
I think your best bet is to use a 3500 lb trailer axle hub with a vented
brake disc. You will need a custom 1.375 axle and custom spacers to center
the wheel and give the grease seals a surface to bear upon. You should be
able to use the same seal on both sides. Since the rear wheel will not have
a chain you do not need to make it adjustable back and forth. The legs of
the swingarm could be 1.375 ID tubing.
I would either double nut the threaded end of the axle to hold the tapered
roller bearings adjustment or use a castellated nut and cotter pin. I would
also horizontally slit the back of the 1.375 ID tubing and weld on some
vertical 5/16 ID tubing to create a pinch bolt set up for tightly clamping
the axle after the end play has been adjusted. I would make the 1.375
tubing at least 2" on each side and have two pinch bolts per side. This will
keep the axle from being able to rotate.
I would probably use a 4 piston racecar type caliper from somebody like
Wilwood. This will simplify the mounting. You need to be sure and design the
caliper mounting so that removal of the wheel does not require disconnecting
the brake line. A 15" wheel would probably help this.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: Rear wheel recommendations
> I want to convert a FWD to a trike. The single rear wheel will have to
> carry twice the load and a bit more if I add batteries in the trunk for a
> hybrid.
>
> y question: Where can I find a wide 'motorcycle type' wheel that will
carry
> a 105 load index tire (or better) and which can be mounted in a swing arm
> fork with a bearing on both sides?
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So why can´t I get the same speed with a low
voltage+high amp system that I get with a high voltage + low amp?
Well this could be done , would need a bigger motor , or one not being used
by anyone on the list :-) . To kind of get a feel of the problem if you
took a 9" motor and ran it in 5th gear with a voltage that gave you the same
top speed as your hi voltage setup had in 2d , your motor would be seeing
hi amp and not getting the rpm to cool itself , now your hi voltage set up
the motor's rpm is hi ( 2nd gear) but the torque is not ( as your tranny is
multiplying the torque by its gear ratio) and your motor amps will be low ,
so even though the power , amp x volts is the same , because the rpm is
lower to get the same power the torque must be higher , and therefore the
amps higher. which either means a bigger motor or you over work a smaller
one .
steve clunn
Thanks again,
Osmo Sarin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Osmo Sarin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:25 AM
Subject: voltage = speed? (newbie)
This must be clear for most of you, but the claim that high voltage = high
speed that I´ve seen in some posts, confuses me...
I have thought the speed depends on the power you have, and power =
voltage x amps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:51 AM
Subject: RE: Rear wheel recommendations
> Ray,
>
> Thanks for your input and your suggestions.
>
> 1> Is a 3500 lb trailer axle stub 1750 lb on each side?
That's one way of looking at it although that rating is more a rating of the
AXLE'S load capacity, not the hub and wheel brgs.
>
> 2> In fact, I was planning to use a chain, making it a hybrid. With the
> rear wheel aft the rear bumper, the trunk is now a battery box. Also,
there
> is a little room where the rear wheels were located. With an extended
> fender like that on 2 wheel per side pickups, perhaps as much as 4
batteries
> per side may be possible.
I don't know what sort of structure you think is back there that will be
strong enough to support all the suspension loads that a swingarm will feed
into the chassis. You are going to have to basically create a tubular
spaceframe to strengthen the back of the car.
Also, the wheelbase is going to be extremely long hurting the
manuverability.
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
The fuse I have is OK, but I filled out the battery pack on my E-10 with new
batteries and I have mismatched fuses. I got curious and looked at them and
found that one is a 180amp for DC and the other doesn't indicate the
amperage but only says it's for 250vac. I didn't like that so I want to get
matching fuses and one extra for "just in case". The E-10 manual says to
use 180amp but doesn't explain why. I suppose 200 will work but won't blow
quite as soon on a problem. I suppose that if the problem was big enough to
blow a 180 it would probably blow a 200 as well.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Need Fuses
At 09:49 PM 14/09/05 -0500, Jeff Wilson wrote:
>I've been looking all over trying to find 180amp 200vdc fuses for my E-10.
>Voltage isn't so much the issue as amperage. Does anyone have any idea
>where these can be had? I've seen everything from 100 up to 800 in 50 and
>100 amp increments but have been unable to locate 180 amp fuses. Help!!
Hi Jeff
A 200A fuse will blow slightly later than a 180A fuse. Make sure that the
fuse you get is rated for the DC voltage, or it may not 'clear' and cause a
fire. What happened to the previous fuse? if it 'random failed' a 200A fuse
may be more appropriate anyway.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
Anyone have any experience with the following Supplier
ElectroCraft Systems out of Toronto, Ontario
http://www.interlog.com/~dgv/
I just got a quote from them for a controller, pot box, DC to DC converter
and a charger. Pretty good prices and would be much better for my
budget-minded conversion given the exchange rate, shipping, duty and so
forth. However, before I go that route I'd like to know if anyone has had
any experience with them?
thanks all,
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
While my reasoning to be on this list is to glean information and
insight in the school of EV conversion, for many years I've been on and
off this list and Lee has always been there to offer a helping hand
(well, cyberhand?) Lee, I would like to say Thanks, for the time you
give to see that most any question posted on the list gets a reply from
you. That alone is allot of time and effort to do. So while life is
still happening, and even though I don't personally know you, Thanks Lee
for your diligence in keeping EVeryone here moving electrically forward.
Thanks too for the many unnamed who do the same. Without this list, it's
much harder to get things moving safely the first time around.
Bryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I second that emotion. Lee's posts are clear and helpful and well
appreciated. My fav, and I'm also grateful for the list and the myriad
others who take the time to post.
Bryan B wrote:
Hi All,
While my reasoning to be on this list is to glean information and
insight in the school of EV conversion, for many years I've been on and
off this list and Lee has always been there to offer a helping hand
(well, cyberhand?) Lee, I would like to say Thanks, for the time you
give to see that most any question posted on the list gets a reply from
you. That alone is allot of time and effort to do. So while life is
still happening, and even though I don't personally know you, Thanks Lee
for your diligence in keeping EVeryone here moving electrically forward.
Thanks too for the many unnamed who do the same. Without this list, it's
much harder to get things moving safely the first time around.
Bryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> Okay, I'm beginning to understand... A contactor controller steps
> up the voltage in discrete amounts instead of a smooth progression
> as you'd get form a PWM type controller, right?
> So with a couple of voltage levels through the contactor controller
> and a few gears in the tranny you can dial in the speed you want.
Correct.
> What about wear and tear on the contactor and motor parts from sudden
> jumps in voltage? not to mention shock to the drivetrain (and your
> neck?) from this?
Contactor controllers have been used for over 100 years, and are still
used today because they are simple, inexpensive, and they work. Built
and used right, you don't get excessive wear and tear on things and the
"lurch" between speeds is quite small.
When the contactors are sized properly for the currents and voltages
involved, they last for 100,000 cycles or so. That's generally many
years. Contactors for this service also have replaceable contacts; you
just replace them every 10 years or so.
Contactor controllers work best with wound-field motors (series, shunt,
sepex) because these motors don't change speed abruptly when the voltage
changes. For example, a series motor changes its *torque* 2:1 when the
voltage is changed 2:1. In normal driving, a 2:1 change in torque is
barely noticeable -- it causes you to gradually accellerate. If you use
a PM motor with a contactor controller, it tries to double its *speed*
when you double the voltage -- this can produce a big current surge and
"lurch" that is hard on the contactors, motor, and drive train.
> if its a resistor thing, what about using potentiometers?
Contactor controllers are essentially 100% efficient. Resistor
controllers have very poor efficiency -- at half speed they are burning
up half your power as heat!
One more thing. The surplus "motor" being discussed is really a shunt
generator. I had one slightly larger than it (Jack & Heinz 30v 500amp)
in my first EV, a 1974 Datsun pickup. I used it with a contactor
controller, and it worked out quite well.
Because it has a shunt field, you can put a small rheostat in series
with the field to control the speed. Operate this rheostat with your
accellerator pedal. You get nice smooth speed variation over about a 4:1
range (1000-4000 rpm) without a controller. Letting up the accellerator
also gives you substantial "engine braking". The motor acts as a
generator and charges the batteries (called regenerative braking).
A 4:1 speed range isn't quite enough for all driving; it's kind of fast
for "idling", and not fast enough for high speeds. To extend the range
further, I used a 3-step contactor controller. The first step applied
36v thru a big resistor to the armature -- this got the motor started
from zero speed without a "lurch". The next step applied 36v directly to
the armature for a "low" speed range (1000-4000 rpm). The next step
applied 72v directly to the armature for a "high" speed range (2000-8000
rpm). Within each of these ranges, the field rheostat controlled the
speed.
While the system works well and is cheap, it has its drawbacks. These
old motor/generators are about 10% less efficient than a modern series
motor. That means they produce a lot of heat (you need a BIG blower!)
and range is lower. They are also noisy; it makes a strong
vacuum-cleaner-like whine. Finally, the special aircraft splined shaft
is a big pain to connect to. The shaft you see is not the real shaft of
the motor; the real shaft is hollow with splines inside and does not
extend outside the case. The external shaft you see is a loose piece
that slides into it. There is no support bearing on this external shaft;
it wobbles freely side-to-side, so you need to support it externally
with a bearing.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefano Landi wrote:
> doesn't a contactor-type controller put strain on the batteries,
> draining some more than others. Of what I've read about battery
> pack balance this can cause early failure of batteries and
> ultimately cost more than having gone with a PWM controller
> which draws current from all the batteries simultaneously and
> keeps the pack more balanced. Any comments from others?
A badly-designed contactor controller can load the batteries unevenly,
and so cause shorter life. But we've known how to design them right for
a VERY long time.
Basically, a good contactor controller loads all batteries the same at
all speeds. The peak current is no higher than a PWM controller
produces; in fact it can be lower than the current pulses produced by
some old crude PWM controllers. Since the contactors switch the
batteries in parallel at least part of the time, this tends to
automatically balance them, which further helps in extending battery
life.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim,
Thank-you for the info, so now I am confused (still), I haven't got a clue
to the 5 lb load. Is that 5 ft/lbs of torque and how do I get that
amplified to any useable power? As I read all the things it takes 550
ft/lbs for 1 HP. Also @24V and 20A that works out to 480 watts or
480/746=.64HP and @36V and 75A works out to 3.6HP.
The controller I have is rated 24-48V and I may be able to get to 36 or 48
if I use 12V batteries. I know there is not enough room to put 8 ea 6s in
there.
I have made a heroic assumption that this is a series field motor, is that
true? The Prime Mover had a GE EV-1 control and I am not fully clear on
what I ended up taking out of the unit. I have traced the wiring, but the
EV-1 is an unknown "black box" on my sketch with too many power wires for my
simple logic. (A1,P,A2,T1,N possibly not in that order)
I'll try cross posting this onto the list as well in case it can help anyone
else.
Thanks,
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Husted
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
Hey John
Thought I'd get you those test specs for the MKU. The L600 manual says that
motor should run at these specs.
24 volts @ 20 amps @ 4400 RPM's @ no load
36 volts @ 75 amps @ 2500 to 2760 RPM's @ 5 lbs load
These motors had an OEM volt rating of 24 to 48 volts
so if you were to run it at 12 volts @ no load you should be around 2500 to
3000 RPMs and still around 20 amps + -.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Jim,
I was able to get in a few hours this weekend on the motor and have gotten
it back together. I had to take the shaft down about .018" and the end bell
out to 55mm and also make the pocket .060" deeper. Sorry for the mixed
measurements, but I didn't keep the notes over the several work sessions. I
am pleased with the result as it spins by hand very easily with the brushes
lifted.
I hooked it up to my old Snap-on charger and the shaft actually turned some.
I didn't check the voltage or speed as I didn't want to let it run too long
as the charger is in need of some work. I just replaced the selenium
rectifier in it (fried) with a selenium stack that I had laying around and
the voltage is some where down around 11 volts due to the multiple diode
drops.
As for the shaft I think if all else fails, I can try making a sprocket or
hub with 6 keyways in it. Just start with the minor diameter of the spline
and space the keyways around the circle.
I have good intentions like everyone else to create a diary of the
conversion to put it up on my website, we'll just have to see if time and
desire keep up. At least so far I have been taking pictures of anything I
think might be of interest to anyone else.
John Neiswanger
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Husted
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
Hey John
Good to talk to you
MKU I know them well and will look up what prestolite says it should run.
It should power that rig pretty nicely. That looks like a pretty nice ride
and I would like to see pics as you go through developement to finished. If
you are unable to get that plate to work, I have some good salvage plates
that might work well as candidates. Second, if you can not find a shaft I
could install a more user friendly shaft into that armature for you to tap
into. What you have in mind sound good though,just thought I'd offer you
some options if all does not go as planned, as there are many way you can
skin that cat so to speak. I thought your motor had no numbers on it so I
thought pic. Although it took you effort, we got to meet and I got to see
yet another EV. Way cool good luck and I'll try to get to you what I can
find out to you. My general feel is that although it may not be the fastest
EV out there that motor should do well and you will be turning heads in no
time. Good luck. And thank you for your kind words.
Jim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Jim,
Thank-you for the offer. Attached is a picture of the motor, the end bell
and just for fun the proposed donor vehicle. I do have a part number on the
motor of MKU-4005 which Prestolite reports as an "out of production model"
with no info available. It was removed from a Prime Mover stock picker as
the main drive motor and the front bearing is in the gearbox and was on the
outside of a helical gear that slipped onto the motor shaft. I was able to
get a bearing at the local bearing house 55mm X 30mm which is just 3mm
larger OD than the Oil seal that was in the end bell. I am intending to
turn the end bell out to take the bearing which should get the front of the
armature supported. The shaft is a 6 spline by 1" which I haven't tried to
locate a sprocket/hub/connector for yet.
In response to your post to the list this evening, I for one, appreciate all
of your input and would have thought you were one of the charter members if
not told otherwise.
Thank-you for any information you are able to provide on this motor or
project.
respectfully,
John
John Neiswanger
Industrial Electronics
Gridley, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
> If you can get a pic forwarded to me I would probably recognizes it. If I
do I can look some spec's up from the prestolite L600 service book.
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi_Torque Electric
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have a Prestolite 24 volt motor and am unable to get any information
from
> them as it is so old. Is there some safe and hopefully simple way to find
> the RPM and power capabilities of this motor. I want to use it in a
> motorcycle conversion at either 24 or 36 volts. It is 7&1/4" diameter and
> 11" long if that gives any clues.
>
> respectfully,
> John Neiswanger
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yesterday I replaced the Goodyear 185/60/15 OEM tires on my 2001 Ford ZX2 5
speed coupe with Falken 195/60/15 Ziex ZE-512 tires.
I never wore out a set of tires in 22,000 miles before and I was very
disappointed with the original set.
I went up one tire size to add 4% diameter for increased gas economy and to
correct my 4% error in the speedometer/odometer.
I bought the tires on EBay for $185 delivered into my garage and had a buddy
mount and balance them for $20.
On the ride home I was amazed! The car was smoother, and much quieter. I
could not believe that by just changing the tires I would get the feel of a
different car.
It is a real eye opener for me. Has this ever happened to you?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
Brian;
I was not aware that a 96 volt car could run in the 120 volt class for a 1/4
mile record.
I thought it had to run the 1/8 mile for a record.
I'm confused.
IIRC The car had 120V of batteries onboard, so it was racing as a 120V
car. (Correct me if I am wrong)
Everything was contactor based, and they were moving up on voltage step
each run. (Before something broke)
The record was reached without hitting the 120V contactor.. so it was
technically done at 96 V.
I think the record should list 120V, but its noteworthy that they did it
without exceeding 96...
Mark
Enlighten me, please.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 5:50 PM
Subject: NEDRA Records for 2005
new records posted this year:
MC/F 1999 Geo Metro 96 volts
Driver: Steve Nash
Owner:Dave Cloud 14.531 92.13 Woodburn Nationals
September 5,2005
!DSPAM:4329162b144751129053459!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
You should used Semi-Conducting Fuses, which are design for solid state
devices. A 35 to 800 amp semi-conducting fuse has a overload rating of 1000
amps for a time of about 10 seconds before it will blow. It will have a 10000
amp short circuit rating RMS and a let threw at 8000 amps. These are rated for
DC and AC in voltages of 250, 480 and 600 volts.
If the running amperes of a motor label is 175 amps @ 165 volts, like mine is,
then fuse it for 1.25 percent over for normal running. 1.25 x 175 = 218.75
amps. A 200 amp fuse should work.
Your motor controller current limits should shut down the higher current level
before it gets there.
It also depends on the rating of your controller and what type of battery
connections you have. Even though a controller is design for 600 to 2000
amperes, I seen bolt on battery connectors lose continuity when pulling 200
amps continuous for too long of a time which start to slow you down. It acts
like a back up current limits.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: RE: Need Fuses
The fuse I have is OK, but I filled out the battery pack on my E-10 with new
batteries and I have mismatched fuses. I got curious and looked at them and
found that one is a 180amp for DC and the other doesn't indicate the
amperage but only says it's for 250vac. I didn't like that so I want to get
matching fuses and one extra for "just in case". The E-10 manual says to
use 180amp but doesn't explain why. I suppose 200 will work but won't blow
quite as soon on a problem. I suppose that if the problem was big enough to
blow a 180 it would probably blow a 200 as well.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:45 AM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Need Fuses
At 09:49 PM 14/09/05 -0500, Jeff Wilson wrote:
>I've been looking all over trying to find 180amp 200vdc fuses for my E-10.
>Voltage isn't so much the issue as amperage. Does anyone have any idea
>where these can be had? I've seen everything from 100 up to 800 in 50 and
>100 amp increments but have been unable to locate 180 amp fuses. Help!!
Hi Jeff
A 200A fuse will blow slightly later than a 180A fuse. Make sure that the
fuse you get is rated for the DC voltage, or it may not 'clear' and cause a
fire. What happened to the previous fuse? if it 'random failed' a 200A fuse
may be more appropriate anyway.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also, you could simply add a resistor inseries with the main pack
to give the correct coil current. The coil/resistor combination could then
be switched with a relay which has a 12 volt coil.If you were worried
about the voltage ratings of the switching relay's contacts , you could have
it's
contacts switch the base of a high voltage transistor which would pull in
the
Albright.Use a diode across the Albright's coil to prevent flyback voltage,
but
I'm sure that you know this already.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:07 AM
Subject: Re: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
> I will either add a small DC/DC converter or rewind the coil,
> depending on which is easier at the time I use 'em. Rewinding the
> coil is certainly practical. Google for some good plans for motorized
> coil winders. I've seen several, though I'll use the professional one
> at my friendly local motor repair place.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everybody:
Doing some calculations, I realized that I am missing some very basic
battery specifics. Since I used to have a Curtis battery meter, I didn't
really think about it.
On a flooded lead acid pack, what is the 80% DOD voltage per cell and do I
have to measure it while pulling amps or while idle? How deep should I
allow the voltage to drop while pulling amps? What would be the perfect
'fully charged' or floating voltage?
Thanks for your answers.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not traveling, but when I had my 20 US8VGC-HC delivered in 2003, they
were delivered by Saia motor freight and the shipping cost was $423.09
for 20 69 lbs batteries delivered to my door with a lift truck. You
might give them a call. www.saia.com
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 5:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Transport Denver to San Jose, California
Hello list,
I may have need for a transport from Denver, CO to San Jose, CA these
will be batteries for a total of over 1500 lb, so I don't
want to run this load in a Prius ;-)
Anybody travelling from CO to CA with some load capacity?
CTS quote is $900
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:54:25 -0700 (MST), "Peter VanDerWal"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I switched to a Dewalt blade and it works ok. Still tends to load up with
>metal. I think maybe the saw turns to slow or slows down too much when
>cutting. Doesn't seem to matter how much, or how little, preasure I use
>when cutting.
>
>I suppose it's possible that I'm doing something wrong.
I hate to ask the obvious, but you're not using a masonry blade on
steel are you? That is the only time I've seen one clog when cutting
steel. Aluminum takes a special, usually green, wheel.
I have a no-name chop saw that I bought >20 years ago before the
chinese entered the scene. Other than a flimsy sheet metal base, it
works like a champ.
BTW, the blades that Northern sells are OK. Not like a Norton but OK.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, but with opposite results than you had. My original tires were:
Good Year H-78-15
Subernite X G Polyglass 8 Ply
2010 load rating at 40 lbs PSI
28.35 inch Diameter or 89.1 inch Circumference.
These tires were fantastic, I could have a down hill run from 35 mph up to 80
mph and another roll out of 2 miles on grade and still maintain 50 mph at my
exit. No matter what the ambient temperature was, these tires maintain there
shape, no flat spots at -30 Below.
I ran these tires for 10 years and replace them with steel radial nylon type
with the same size and company. These tires would get out of shape at very low
temperature or if you letting the car set for a long time. This gave a rough
ride and worn the tires faster.
The roll out down hill, felt like I was dragging something. The dealer said, I
have to run the tires at least 5 miles at low temperatures to make them round.
The problem, Most of my driving is from 1 to 4 miles per trip.
My next set of tires, I will be going back to the Poly glass low resistance
types.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: stu<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: The importance of tires?
Yesterday I replaced the Goodyear 185/60/15 OEM tires on my 2001 Ford ZX2 5
speed coupe with Falken 195/60/15 Ziex ZE-512 tires.
I never wore out a set of tires in 22,000 miles before and I was very
disappointed with the original set.
I went up one tire size to add 4% diameter for increased gas economy and to
correct my 4% error in the speedometer/odometer.
I bought the tires on EBay for $185 delivered into my garage and had a buddy
mount and balance them for $20.
On the ride home I was amazed! The car was smoother, and much quieter. I
could not believe that by just changing the tires I would get the feel of a
different car.
It is a real eye opener for me. Has this ever happened to you?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
